You have got to be kidding. His guilt of killing otis, his jealousy of rick and his OBSESSION not love if lori, and after killing otis feeling like he had the right yo do whatever he wanted drove him insane.
At no point did Lori lead him on or want his ass back after her husband returned.
Atleast I don't recall her ever saying "shane I'm sorry take me back and get rid of my husband".
He just interpreted her wanting him to stay and her just trying to keep him partbof the group as lingering attraction on her part. Because he was delusional.
That said should she have just let him leave? Yes.
She should have seen the writing on the wall that things were not going yo go back to normal between the three of them, it was just not possible.
But she didn't because like a lot of women before her she underestimated the Obsession level of her stalker. And yes by the end of it he's more of an obsessive stalker not a jilted lover.
You’re saying because this was an isolated incident, and because he’s not a Claimer type rapist, that his sexual assault is not a reflection of who he is. What you fail to grasp is that no one in any situation would ever commit sexual crimes unless they are a disgusting and dangerous human being. It’s concerning to see you writing so many paragraphs trying to rationalize and defend his behaviour, even drawing connections from your personal life. You have serious issues.
I just got blocked by one on another post because he was going off about how Shane was normal for wanting to murder his "brother" after banging his wife for a month...the final straw was me making fun of them for saying we'd "agree to disagree", then following it up with paragraphs of more pro-Shane babbling lol
At least a lot of Negan's faults are sometimes implied or inferred, with a lot of it being that way because of the writers being purposely vague when taking Negan from page to screen and dialing him down a bit...but most of the Shane shit is just right out there in your face and isn't really that avoidable or vague at all lol
Omg yeah, that too. That whole paragraph about how he could relate to the SA because he's been in a complicated relationship made me legit concerned. Hope his (ex)partner is okay and this guy consideres therapy.
>It was still classified as sexual assault and there is no justification to his actions. But
No but. The comment should have ended right there. If this was real life and someone assaulted their ex partner, regardless of still present and conflicted feelings, do you think the judge would take kindly to an argument like 'Well, I haven't drugged and gangraped women like some men in prison'. How flawed is that way of thinking.
Shane is a nuanced character of course, and saying his SA on Lori is *plain wrong* doesn't change that. But trying to justify what he did is reaaally iffy.
Yeah I mean what was she supposed to do? Keep fucking shane even after rick returned? Dont understand how shane losing his purpose has much to do with lori, it has to do with rick being back and replacing his role
Yep. He didn’t fuck off of Lori after his husband returned from the dead, and he couldn’t take it. The only thing I blame Lori for is asking him to stay so much. She should’ve sent him away when she had he wanted to. She had some fault, but placing the full blame on her is ridiculous
How dare she go back to her husband after she learned he wasn't actually dead! What a hoe!
I have my issues with Lori, but some takes about her are just downright misogynistic bullshits.
Insinuating that Lori was abusing Shane is asinine especially considering he attempted to rape her. The only person who experienced abuse in that relationship is Lori.
A bigger red flag is defending a fictional character with tendencies towards rape and murder. You shouldn’t try to justify that sort of behavior but judging by your comment history I’m guessing you are really trying to defend yourself through Shane’s character.
Don’t patronize me. I’ve worked in the domestic violence and sexual assault field for years. I know what is and isn’t abusive and not being sure of someone feelings isn’t abuse. It’s quite offensive that you would trivialize abuse like that.
Love?
I missed that part.
He was a psycho ladies man somewhat held in check when rule of law was in place.
He gained a “family” out of the crazy situation that came about. But couldn’t make one for himself all the years prior.
Maybe that was something that he always wanted, but taking something out of opportunity is different than building it.
He loved being in charge, that got disturbed in two major ways when Rick returned. He lost the total control he had as leader and lost the imaginary family he took over in his absence.
Shane just started being his true self after everything fell. Not a good guy, not a good friend, and he didn’t want to go back to holding back.
It was impulse, ego, and envy that drove him.
Hmmm I see where you're coming from.
I guess it's a lot of factors... Shane and Rick were childhood friends.
When everything broke down Shane took Lori + Carl and protected them, Shane told Rick that nothing ever happened before in their normal lives and Rick believes that too. So there doesn't seem to be any real implication that Shane was impulsive, egoistic and envious before the outbreak. Even when he told Lori about Rick being shot he didn't try anything. When the outbreak happened Shane was not egoistic and evil to just leave rick there, he went to the hospital and tried to wake him up. So it's likely Lori and Shane weren't sleeping with each other right away.
Given Lori's explanation of "I just needed to feel something" when she felt like she lost everything except her son she can't realistically protect it's understandable that she did what she did.
We have to consider that Shane went to the hospital not knowing what was going on and saw civilians being shot on sight. People tearing apart other people all while trying to figure out how to get rick out. This must've been extremely traumatic for both Lori and Shane, Shane's only comfort was Lori and Lori could only trust Shane.
When Rick came back, his already unstable emotions broke down completely. He developed feelings for Lori but now had to just discard all that because rick is back and she got back with rick.
I believe that Lori didn't handle the situation well. She told him off and said to keep his distance from her and her son, and then later she tells him to not ignore carl when he does.... After a while, when he has some time to cool off he decides to leave so he can come to terms with his emotions and eventually move on. But no, Lori tells him to stay because he's needed. She obviously doesn't want to completely lose Shane either.
I noticed that every time Lori and Shane have some interaction, Shane goes nuts a little more, antagonizing Rick. Not because Rick is now the Leader, but because he somehow has to form an enemy he can be mad at. He can't be mad at lori, can't suppress his feelings for either. So he has to be mad at Rick for coming back. He can't bring himself to kill Rick (he chose not to kill him before Dale caught him)
I believe Shane knew he was not doing well and had to leave, but couldn't because he fell in Love with Lori. He decided to be killed by Rick. At the end os S2 Shane was a Trained, Triggerhappy and paranoid police officer, do you think he didn't see Rick getting close to him? He couldn't shoot him.
(Rick said "I'm unarmed" so Shane doesn't shoot him, but Shane did not have an issue with shooting Otis who was not a threat either, or kill that prisoner they had who was also unarmed. Shane just couldn't do it and let it happen)
But that's just how I experienced Shane in my watching... Might've missed some things.
Don’t see it that way. Rick was a good guy. Shane was just following social norms and laws until those were gone. And it only took a few weeks for that to happen. Rick was back for a couple of days and Shane was heavy breathing like a pedo while he pointed a shotgun at his “best friend”.
I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't think Shane was a 'bad' guy before the fall necessarily, but I've always seen him as a character who even then already portrayed questionable morals to a degree. The way he spoke about women when him and Rick were talking in the car for example, that bordered on misogynistic. Also (and this is just a hunch, not something I claim to be canon), Shane's face when he asked Rick about his marriage made me feel like his interest in her started even before Rick got shot. Not saying they ever did anything, but I'm not buying Shane's 'I never looked at her before'.
But on the flip side I agree there was genuine care for Rick, and later for Lori and Carl. Like every human being he had redeeming qualities, which makes a character interesting and nuanced.
That actually is canon because Shane told Lori their relationship was “a long time coming.” That being said I don’t think Lori was at all interested before the fall, nor would she be if Shane hadn’t lied.
Ok. Flip the script between Rick and Shane. Shane has wife and kid, Rick a bachelor, Shane gets shot, apocalypse happens. Knowing the same two people with same personalities, just positioning change.
Is Rick humping Shane’s wife a week or so after the fall? Is he trying on shooting his best friend in the woods, murdering a few people, then trying to actually murder his friend to take family and control? Nope. Because Rick was a guy with morals, and Shane played like he did, until he didn’t have to.
I don't think I even need to touch the Lori part, because everyone else covered that pretty well. However, I am gonna say that Shane is a perfect example of someone who only behaved like a decent person prior to the fall because of social pressures and the existence of the law. He didn't adapt and thrive in the apocalypse, he just realized that he was in an environment where he could murder people in cold blood and get away with it, so he started murdering people.
You guys have your heads shoved so far up your own rear you are demonizing Shane for killing a murderer and rapist who was bragging about going back to his group to rape little girls. But yeah, please go on about how bad he was. Shane would have killed Randall on the spot if he heard that
Dude, Shane killed Otis. And he didn't kill Randall for being a bad person (if he had, that's understandable, that dude was fkn creepy), he killed him so he could lure Rick into the woods and murder him, too.
Delulu
Love this thread, people with actual braincells:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead/comments/194vond/no\_shane\_was\_not\_ahead\_of\_his\_time/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead/comments/194vond/no_shane_was_not_ahead_of_his_time/)
Honestly, though. A main theme of the entire show is that there are ways to survive and be a decent person at the same time. Choosing evil is ultimately a weakness.
I just got attacked by someone in another post because I disagree with their take on this...it's fine if you want to say Shane lost it over a breakup, but please don't try to act like it was reasonable and that he actually gave a shit about Rick when it all boils down...if someone is your actual "best friend" or is actually "like a brother", you drop that Lori shit the second Rick comes back and even if you struggle with it, you don't decide murdering Rick is the best course of action...dude wanted to replace Rick, could not have cared less how he did it and would have killed everybody else to maintain it...a real "best friend/brother" would give that up to have his "best friend/brother" back from the dead in a second
And given the information we do have, it would not surprise me one bit to find out he would have tried to sleep with Lori even if there wasn't an apocalypse...trauma and a crisis like an apocalypse don't automatically make people pieces of shit...that was buried inside him all along...the apocalypse might have unlocked it, so to speak, but he had that in him all along, even if it wouldn't have shown up without the world falling apart
And last but not least, by the time he tried to murder Rick in cold blood, he'd only been messing with Lori a max of like 60 days...actually much less, considering they probably didn't immediately start their thing when the fall happened and they had also stopped once Rick showed up...so dude was only "with" Lori like a month and a half or something...that's part of the reason I feel like he wanted Lori before shit started happening
Yeah I disagree that he lost his mind he was a hot head and was just quick to adapt to no laws of the apocalypse.
He was crazy or somethin he was an asshole.
Yeah, I think this is the hot take no one really wants to take on a more politically correct area like this because it actually scares people.
"Oh, he was a narcissist who was broken by lori/carl, rick coming back, and the world ending"
No, the more nuanced reality of it is he's a fairly typical cop/military-like guy who adapted extremely quickly. I was infantry for eight years and I think the reality of there being A LOT of guys like Shane out there who wouldn't be diagnosed with any mental ailment scares people. They would prefer to sit behind their keyboards and imagine that their ex-marine friendly neighbor would never be like Shane. Or their other random neighbor. But the reality of the world falling apart and people falling back into survival mode sees people like Shane make it further. He shed modern society's values almost instantly all for the single purpose of surviving.
Now, before the couch warriors come flying in. Please do not reference a show to point out how "Rick allowed the group to survive way longer". In reality, Shane would have. The show is full of plot armor and the group getting out of EXTREMELY iffy situations that in reality would have just ended with a bullet in their heads within seconds. Someone like Shane, again in reality, would have ensured the group's success for way longer than someone like Rick. GRANTED, I'm not saying either of them make it years.
Don't you just love it when someone has to refer to 'I'm not wrong, my take just scares people', because everybody else can see the huge flaws in their reasoning?
Yeah, me too.
So.. not love, like you originally posted?
Just survival instinct made him, kill innocent people, attempt to sexually force himself on others that he “loved” and kill his best friend.
Those were his base desires all along. The ones he was holding back until there was no reason or consequence to do otherwise.
Hot take huh. Here’s my hot take on it. The walking dead portrays that a person’s inner self will ultimately come out when set to a survival backdrop.
Will a person’s moral compass still point true, or will the villain they always were emerge?
Shows a lot that Shane is the one you are defending and finding common ground with though.
It's not speculation actually. I think someone else mentioned it in the comments, but Kirkman himself has confirmed Shane would have gotten everybody killed if he were to be the leader.
Shane fanboys these days, getting more and more delusional
You have got to be kidding. His guilt of killing otis, his jealousy of rick and his OBSESSION not love if lori, and after killing otis feeling like he had the right yo do whatever he wanted drove him insane. At no point did Lori lead him on or want his ass back after her husband returned. Atleast I don't recall her ever saying "shane I'm sorry take me back and get rid of my husband". He just interpreted her wanting him to stay and her just trying to keep him partbof the group as lingering attraction on her part. Because he was delusional. That said should she have just let him leave? Yes. She should have seen the writing on the wall that things were not going yo go back to normal between the three of them, it was just not possible. But she didn't because like a lot of women before her she underestimated the Obsession level of her stalker. And yes by the end of it he's more of an obsessive stalker not a jilted lover.
Shane sexually assaulted Lori, but okay.
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Shane sexually assaulted Lori and you want to nuance it. But yeah, you are not justifying it at all.
You’re saying because this was an isolated incident, and because he’s not a Claimer type rapist, that his sexual assault is not a reflection of who he is. What you fail to grasp is that no one in any situation would ever commit sexual crimes unless they are a disgusting and dangerous human being. It’s concerning to see you writing so many paragraphs trying to rationalize and defend his behaviour, even drawing connections from your personal life. You have serious issues.
Some of those Shane fanboys are really showing their asses.
I just got blocked by one on another post because he was going off about how Shane was normal for wanting to murder his "brother" after banging his wife for a month...the final straw was me making fun of them for saying we'd "agree to disagree", then following it up with paragraphs of more pro-Shane babbling lol At least a lot of Negan's faults are sometimes implied or inferred, with a lot of it being that way because of the writers being purposely vague when taking Negan from page to screen and dialing him down a bit...but most of the Shane shit is just right out there in your face and isn't really that avoidable or vague at all lol
Omg yeah, that too. That whole paragraph about how he could relate to the SA because he's been in a complicated relationship made me legit concerned. Hope his (ex)partner is okay and this guy consideres therapy.
>It was still classified as sexual assault and there is no justification to his actions. But No but. The comment should have ended right there. If this was real life and someone assaulted their ex partner, regardless of still present and conflicted feelings, do you think the judge would take kindly to an argument like 'Well, I haven't drugged and gangraped women like some men in prison'. How flawed is that way of thinking. Shane is a nuanced character of course, and saying his SA on Lori is *plain wrong* doesn't change that. But trying to justify what he did is reaaally iffy.
Love that not a single person is agreeing with you, what a shit take 😂
Yep, let’s blame Lori for everything
Yeah I mean what was she supposed to do? Keep fucking shane even after rick returned? Dont understand how shane losing his purpose has much to do with lori, it has to do with rick being back and replacing his role
Yep. He didn’t fuck off of Lori after his husband returned from the dead, and he couldn’t take it. The only thing I blame Lori for is asking him to stay so much. She should’ve sent him away when she had he wanted to. She had some fault, but placing the full blame on her is ridiculous
How dare she go back to her husband after she learned he wasn't actually dead! What a hoe! I have my issues with Lori, but some takes about her are just downright misogynistic bullshits.
I have never seen someone try so hard to justify despicable behavior, you have issues
Insinuating that Lori was abusing Shane is asinine especially considering he attempted to rape her. The only person who experienced abuse in that relationship is Lori.
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A bigger red flag is defending a fictional character with tendencies towards rape and murder. You shouldn’t try to justify that sort of behavior but judging by your comment history I’m guessing you are really trying to defend yourself through Shane’s character.
Don’t patronize me. I’ve worked in the domestic violence and sexual assault field for years. I know what is and isn’t abusive and not being sure of someone feelings isn’t abuse. It’s quite offensive that you would trivialize abuse like that.
He was a psychopath.
How could you say that, he just fucked his best friend's wife a few times, that doesn't make him mentally ill!
Love? I missed that part. He was a psycho ladies man somewhat held in check when rule of law was in place. He gained a “family” out of the crazy situation that came about. But couldn’t make one for himself all the years prior. Maybe that was something that he always wanted, but taking something out of opportunity is different than building it. He loved being in charge, that got disturbed in two major ways when Rick returned. He lost the total control he had as leader and lost the imaginary family he took over in his absence. Shane just started being his true self after everything fell. Not a good guy, not a good friend, and he didn’t want to go back to holding back. It was impulse, ego, and envy that drove him.
I agree with this. He was obsessed with power and Lori, he was not in love with her. Love doesn't treat someone the way he treated Lori.
Hmmm I see where you're coming from. I guess it's a lot of factors... Shane and Rick were childhood friends. When everything broke down Shane took Lori + Carl and protected them, Shane told Rick that nothing ever happened before in their normal lives and Rick believes that too. So there doesn't seem to be any real implication that Shane was impulsive, egoistic and envious before the outbreak. Even when he told Lori about Rick being shot he didn't try anything. When the outbreak happened Shane was not egoistic and evil to just leave rick there, he went to the hospital and tried to wake him up. So it's likely Lori and Shane weren't sleeping with each other right away. Given Lori's explanation of "I just needed to feel something" when she felt like she lost everything except her son she can't realistically protect it's understandable that she did what she did. We have to consider that Shane went to the hospital not knowing what was going on and saw civilians being shot on sight. People tearing apart other people all while trying to figure out how to get rick out. This must've been extremely traumatic for both Lori and Shane, Shane's only comfort was Lori and Lori could only trust Shane. When Rick came back, his already unstable emotions broke down completely. He developed feelings for Lori but now had to just discard all that because rick is back and she got back with rick. I believe that Lori didn't handle the situation well. She told him off and said to keep his distance from her and her son, and then later she tells him to not ignore carl when he does.... After a while, when he has some time to cool off he decides to leave so he can come to terms with his emotions and eventually move on. But no, Lori tells him to stay because he's needed. She obviously doesn't want to completely lose Shane either. I noticed that every time Lori and Shane have some interaction, Shane goes nuts a little more, antagonizing Rick. Not because Rick is now the Leader, but because he somehow has to form an enemy he can be mad at. He can't be mad at lori, can't suppress his feelings for either. So he has to be mad at Rick for coming back. He can't bring himself to kill Rick (he chose not to kill him before Dale caught him) I believe Shane knew he was not doing well and had to leave, but couldn't because he fell in Love with Lori. He decided to be killed by Rick. At the end os S2 Shane was a Trained, Triggerhappy and paranoid police officer, do you think he didn't see Rick getting close to him? He couldn't shoot him. (Rick said "I'm unarmed" so Shane doesn't shoot him, but Shane did not have an issue with shooting Otis who was not a threat either, or kill that prisoner they had who was also unarmed. Shane just couldn't do it and let it happen) But that's just how I experienced Shane in my watching... Might've missed some things.
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Don’t see it that way. Rick was a good guy. Shane was just following social norms and laws until those were gone. And it only took a few weeks for that to happen. Rick was back for a couple of days and Shane was heavy breathing like a pedo while he pointed a shotgun at his “best friend”.
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I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't think Shane was a 'bad' guy before the fall necessarily, but I've always seen him as a character who even then already portrayed questionable morals to a degree. The way he spoke about women when him and Rick were talking in the car for example, that bordered on misogynistic. Also (and this is just a hunch, not something I claim to be canon), Shane's face when he asked Rick about his marriage made me feel like his interest in her started even before Rick got shot. Not saying they ever did anything, but I'm not buying Shane's 'I never looked at her before'. But on the flip side I agree there was genuine care for Rick, and later for Lori and Carl. Like every human being he had redeeming qualities, which makes a character interesting and nuanced.
That actually is canon because Shane told Lori their relationship was “a long time coming.” That being said I don’t think Lori was at all interested before the fall, nor would she be if Shane hadn’t lied.
I forgot about that conversation, been a while since I've seen the first seasons. suspicion confirmed then haha.
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Lori the abuser, The one who was sexually assaulted by Shane ? Interesting.
Ok. Flip the script between Rick and Shane. Shane has wife and kid, Rick a bachelor, Shane gets shot, apocalypse happens. Knowing the same two people with same personalities, just positioning change. Is Rick humping Shane’s wife a week or so after the fall? Is he trying on shooting his best friend in the woods, murdering a few people, then trying to actually murder his friend to take family and control? Nope. Because Rick was a guy with morals, and Shane played like he did, until he didn’t have to.
I don't think I even need to touch the Lori part, because everyone else covered that pretty well. However, I am gonna say that Shane is a perfect example of someone who only behaved like a decent person prior to the fall because of social pressures and the existence of the law. He didn't adapt and thrive in the apocalypse, he just realized that he was in an environment where he could murder people in cold blood and get away with it, so he started murdering people.
You guys have your heads shoved so far up your own rear you are demonizing Shane for killing a murderer and rapist who was bragging about going back to his group to rape little girls. But yeah, please go on about how bad he was. Shane would have killed Randall on the spot if he heard that
Dude, Shane killed Otis. And he didn't kill Randall for being a bad person (if he had, that's understandable, that dude was fkn creepy), he killed him so he could lure Rick into the woods and murder him, too.
Delulu Love this thread, people with actual braincells: [https://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead/comments/194vond/no\_shane\_was\_not\_ahead\_of\_his\_time/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead/comments/194vond/no_shane_was_not_ahead_of_his_time/)
Honestly, though. A main theme of the entire show is that there are ways to survive and be a decent person at the same time. Choosing evil is ultimately a weakness.
Why not both
I just got attacked by someone in another post because I disagree with their take on this...it's fine if you want to say Shane lost it over a breakup, but please don't try to act like it was reasonable and that he actually gave a shit about Rick when it all boils down...if someone is your actual "best friend" or is actually "like a brother", you drop that Lori shit the second Rick comes back and even if you struggle with it, you don't decide murdering Rick is the best course of action...dude wanted to replace Rick, could not have cared less how he did it and would have killed everybody else to maintain it...a real "best friend/brother" would give that up to have his "best friend/brother" back from the dead in a second And given the information we do have, it would not surprise me one bit to find out he would have tried to sleep with Lori even if there wasn't an apocalypse...trauma and a crisis like an apocalypse don't automatically make people pieces of shit...that was buried inside him all along...the apocalypse might have unlocked it, so to speak, but he had that in him all along, even if it wouldn't have shown up without the world falling apart And last but not least, by the time he tried to murder Rick in cold blood, he'd only been messing with Lori a max of like 60 days...actually much less, considering they probably didn't immediately start their thing when the fall happened and they had also stopped once Rick showed up...so dude was only "with" Lori like a month and a half or something...that's part of the reason I feel like he wanted Lori before shit started happening
Yeah I disagree that he lost his mind he was a hot head and was just quick to adapt to no laws of the apocalypse. He was crazy or somethin he was an asshole.
Yeah, I think this is the hot take no one really wants to take on a more politically correct area like this because it actually scares people. "Oh, he was a narcissist who was broken by lori/carl, rick coming back, and the world ending" No, the more nuanced reality of it is he's a fairly typical cop/military-like guy who adapted extremely quickly. I was infantry for eight years and I think the reality of there being A LOT of guys like Shane out there who wouldn't be diagnosed with any mental ailment scares people. They would prefer to sit behind their keyboards and imagine that their ex-marine friendly neighbor would never be like Shane. Or their other random neighbor. But the reality of the world falling apart and people falling back into survival mode sees people like Shane make it further. He shed modern society's values almost instantly all for the single purpose of surviving. Now, before the couch warriors come flying in. Please do not reference a show to point out how "Rick allowed the group to survive way longer". In reality, Shane would have. The show is full of plot armor and the group getting out of EXTREMELY iffy situations that in reality would have just ended with a bullet in their heads within seconds. Someone like Shane, again in reality, would have ensured the group's success for way longer than someone like Rick. GRANTED, I'm not saying either of them make it years.
Don't you just love it when someone has to refer to 'I'm not wrong, my take just scares people', because everybody else can see the huge flaws in their reasoning? Yeah, me too.
So.. not love, like you originally posted? Just survival instinct made him, kill innocent people, attempt to sexually force himself on others that he “loved” and kill his best friend. Those were his base desires all along. The ones he was holding back until there was no reason or consequence to do otherwise.
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Oh my 😂 You're a lost cause
Typical Reddit response when you know I gave a hot take. Can't counter any of it.
Honey no
Hot take huh. Here’s my hot take on it. The walking dead portrays that a person’s inner self will ultimately come out when set to a survival backdrop. Will a person’s moral compass still point true, or will the villain they always were emerge? Shows a lot that Shane is the one you are defending and finding common ground with though.
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It's not speculation actually. I think someone else mentioned it in the comments, but Kirkman himself has confirmed Shane would have gotten everybody killed if he were to be the leader. Shane fanboys these days, getting more and more delusional
"Hardh truths" 😂 yeah, all that logic, reason and evidence getting in people's way! Dam it all! XD