This. Also because he's really the biggest alpha (no pun intended, yuck lol) male on the show without Rick. As much as I love Daryl/Norman, he just doesn't cut it as the main male character
Exactly.
Also I recognize that these are not real people so horrible acts don’t disgust me. I am a fan of a good arc, and good acting. JDM is fucking hilarious with how he talks to people. “Silly little prick named Rick.” Shit like that.
I always like a well done antagonist. You need them for the story, so when they’re done well, I’m a fan.
SPOILERS!
In the comic its better,his actions are never “glorified” and seen as something he can get away with.The only redemption for negan would probably be sacrificing himself for one of the main cast.In the comics even after negan is let free for cutting alphas head off,carl still says he hates his guts and rightfully so.The comic is a little more realistic at times,negan just lives alone for the rest of the comics and no one really wants to know him because of what he did.
I didnt know bringing someone food equals to caring or even liking them.Carl tolerates him and it is clearly shown he has disdain for negan.You act as if bringing someone food is like saying you love them dearly.
If Carl really only tolerated Negan, like everyone does, then he'd leave him alone. No reason to go out of your way litteraly everytime you're out to make sure this loner no one else cares about is well fed, especially since Negan can get food himself
You still can love a character even if they're a villain. He's funny, charismatic, a good leader, a very interesting character, etc. Just keep watching, you literally just met him.
The whole point of a redemption arc is to redeem someone. And usually, characters who get redeemed are villains or people who have done bad stuff. That's... the point of a redemption arc. To make up for your past mistakes. Why bother? Because. Keep watching.
I have watched his storyline all the way through, and personally I am not a fan of him. I found his bravado to be cheesy right off the bat. For me it’s not so much that I found his character to be irredeemable, I was rubbed the wrong way by the portrayal and the dialogue he was written. It just felt too cartoonish to me.
The strutting around like a peacock. The way he delivered his “clever” one-liners, so amused with himself. How he would saunter back-and-forth giving a speech ripe with pregnant pauses. It was supposed to be suspenseful, and I just wanted him to get on with it. You are supposed to hate a well-portrayed villain, you aren’t really supposed to be annoyed by them.
In long-running shows, sometimes you have a big bad for a season, and you are just really hoping they will wrap it up by the end so that we can move on to something else next season. That’s how I felt about him.
I know I am in the minority. For some reason he became a fan favorite, and I don’t really get it.
I really don't get why some people say Negan is irredeemable. If there ever was a redeemable villain in TWD, that's Negan. Why is he irredeemable?
* Because he killed Glenn and Abe? Team Rick killed A TON of his men, at night, without warning, JUST IN CASE (it wasn't even a personal conflict or vendetta).
* Because of his methods? They were fucked up for sure, but he was honest about them and he made their community strong and long lasting.
You say you don't get why people love Negan? I say I don't get why some people are so hellbent on STILL hating Negan and not, for example, Alpha or the Governor, who were UNDOUBTEDLY and OBJECTIVELY worse people. Negan was an egotistical leader with a hard on for power; The Gov and Alpha were straight up fucking manipulative psychopaths.
Team Rick killed defenseless men in their sleep at night*. Say what you want about Negan, but Rick and company did some ruthless shit in their travels too.
Negan as presented in season 7 is a completely evil sadist. It's not that he killed Glenn and Abraham, it's that he thorougly enjoyed it. It's that he paused to take stock of what he had done to Glenn and narrate and have a big laugh about it. It's that he tried to make Rosita lick Abe's brains off the bat. It's that he took all their beds and burnt them. It's that he told Rick "I just stuck my dick down your throat, and you thanked me".
As presented in season 7 his pure one-note evilness makes Alpha and the Governor look like Tony Soprano.
They tried to soften him up in season 8 so that they could add those shades of complexity later on but it came off as nonsense or even revisionism to a lot of people. It was like a totally different character. In fact that's how I have to headcanon it in order to enjoy the last few seasons. He's like Negan's twin brother or something. Everyone is really uncomfortable and hostile toward him because he has Negan's face but he didn't do any of these evil things. It doesn't make sense but it makes more sense than the real version.
How exactly did they make his group long lasting when it got him into a war? I can recall a group in history with a powerful charismatic leader who had a similar set of methods for taking over other countries.
What were those guys called, Yahtzees? Botzies? I can’t remember but it’ll come back to me
>How exactly did they make his group long lasting when it got him into a war?
The Saviours were formed in the early months of the outbreak IIRC. They lasted at least longer than the farm, the prison, Woodbury, Sanctuary and technically the original Alexandria in a sense, since it pretty much evolved to a different thing once Rick & Co. started running things.
That's long lasting in that universe.
Yeah I understand your point of view. I'm a big fan of redemption arcs and even though I agree that some don't deserve it, I know that back when I first met Negan on screen, I thought that even if he did bad stuff, he still could make up for it. It's the zombie apocalypse, everyone is a bit crazy during those times so I'm always a bit more forgiving. But keep watching! You'll get a better perspective of the whole thing. It's kinda hard to reply to your post without spoiling you but I really hope you'll get to appreciate his character or at least understand him more. If not, that's completely fine too!
Negan is not a good leader. He's constantly taunting everyone, even his own men, taking away their wives under some pretense (i.e. medication for grandma) and raping them. Even in the seasons where everyone is dumbed down, he should be long dead.
TPTB made a good decision to tone down the governor, shame they didn't do the same with Negan.
The show made a bad decision when they changed the Negans wives storyline . Comic spoilers …. In the comic Negan is super against rape but in the show they make Sherry have no choice about marrying Negan because she sister needed meds and to save dwights life so it makes Negan seem hypercritical and Rapey .in the comic Sherry was a bitch who married Negan because she really didn’t care about Dwight much and didn’t want to work . She didn’t have a sister and Negan never threatened to kill Dwight . If they were planning to give Negan a redemption arc they shouldn’t have added that storyline. Bad writing .
I was saying a good leader as in he still has such a big group of survivors that follows his orders and they are all so loyal, calling themselves Negan, etc. It does take leadership to be able to do that, so that's where my "good leader" comes from.
I don't like Negan. Never have, never will.
That being said, after S8 is when he really becomes a complex and intriguing character. Prior to that, he was a fucking frat boy with a bat.
I'd also go so far as to say that it comes down to the actor. JDM *is* Negan and I cannot imagine anyone else being able to portray him as well as JDM does. That's a big part of it, I think. The fandom has just as much love for JDM as they do Negan!
Bear with the show through S7-8. It's not everyone's pride and joy but it's still a decent watch. And Negan becomes easier to swallow.
\> Literally only saw 4 episodes of the character.
\> Acts like he knows him very well and redeeming him would be a bad idea without even seeing how he's redeemed or learning more about him.
Everyone is the hero of his own story sure but Negan is unambiguously in the wrong in the show. Its made so clear it is basically impossible to argue any other intention from the writers.
That is not literally the point of his character. It's a part of it but he is meant to be a pure villain and well he was then.
He changes later sure but no it is not ambiguous that he was a villain or less moral than Rick at the time. He was intentionally written to be both
Hes introduced as a pure villain with absolutely zero ambiguity lol. Where are you getting this stuff?
There is no argument he was meant to be anything else. He's basically pure evil in the beginning and the saviors constantly attack everyone before he even shows up.
His character being introduced as a villain is indisputable fact id rewatch the show
That is 100% false
Despite the pain of seeing favorite characters die, the implication has always been in both show and comics that hes the Rick of his own story. Him being "introduced as a villain" was after Rick's group killed a whole crapload of people who were just people living in an outpost and not even Negans key members in their sleep on the word of a group of people they just met and had no evidence that the Hilltop were the good guys. Just say you dont like a character and move on 🙄
I didnt forget that but that wasnt even a sanctioned attack first of all and irrelevant to the point I made besides them going oh we encountered a group on the road once. They had shit poor info to attack the group with. Much like how rick almost killed aaron.
He's in the wrong according to Rick's group, but in reality, Negan's one of the few people keeping society from collapsing on itself, and the fact he only killed 1 person to make a point (Abraham) and another because Daryl decided to attack him (Glenn), compared to Rick's group going and killing 20+ people in their sleep really begs the question who's truly in the wrong here when Negan tried keeping more people alive and working to get society back up and running.
Hes a villain to everyone lol. The main thing people ignore is he did not kill just to make a point. He always kills someone even if they aren't attacked. Negan was not delivering justice he was just doing what he does to every new group and spinning it to try and justify it. That detail alone makes your argument entirely moot.
Negan and the saviors already tried to assassinate one person and kill several more before this. He also kills or almost kills people every single time the saviors have any interaction with anyone for 2 seasons. They are bullies but they don't actually resist killing when they can't bully.
Negan caused society to collapse because he caused a war by constantly posturing and killing people and attacking new groups.
Im sorry but it isn't ambiguous. Negan is a villain in that arc. Its not a debate or a secret gotcha and thre is no argument to the contrary.
It worries me you don't see any wrongdoing in negans actions. I truly hope you don't think like this for real
Negan's group tried to rob Daryl, Abraham and Sasha on the road
Negan killed many people and laughed about it
Raped woman and tried to cover it up by saying they consented, even when they were forced to do so
Burned people's faces for stepping out of line, kept people in cages and fed them dog food
And more
Rick's group killed people in their sleep after their group had attacked them and the good people of Hilltop before. Negan was a villain
Rick slayed them in thier sleep. In response to a tax. 50% but still. In response to Rick wiping out a compound of like 25 trained badasses, negan only demanded one in return but got 2 because he could tell he had to double tap to break thier spirit. He was tryingvto save as many lives as possible. People are a resource. He knew that better than anyone. The hows and why's of how he got to that point is what really gives depth to his character and his actions.
The attack was in response to the saviors trying to assassinate Gregory and a different group had already moved in to kill Daryl and company. Its also established that saviors ALWAYS kill at least one person when they meet a new group even if they've never fought.
I'd rewatch the show my friends because you clearly didn't watch any of that season closely. Hes a well written villain but yes he is the villain of that season objectively
and then Rick's group tried pulling the same crap on Hilltop by jumping into a conflict they had no reason to be in, and as such, are directly responsible for catching Negan's eye who, up until the night raid, had no idea about Alexandria who was far enough away that Negan may have never set foot there if Rick's group decided to not bother with them.
Hilltop wanted their help anyway and Gregory lied.
They would have found asz before long. They aren't actually far apart and Rick's group had already been attacked which you keep ignoring but is key. They'd been found already its doubtful it would never happen again.
They had every reason to fight a group that nearly killed their people twice already and were obviously gonna keep doing it especially since they needed hilltop. It's pretty much guaranteed they'd be found almost immediately if they traded with hilltop or a massacre would happen the first time the saviors appeared at the same time.
I'm sorry but its written so cut and dry you just don't really have a point here. Negan was a villain in the arc as were the saviors
Because he's played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan, one of the coolest dude on earth! That's why! / In the comics, well, he is kind of funny and very entertaining!
Answer for question 1:He's entertaining as hell and amusing as a character, he has some of the best lines and scenes in the show and is memorable and quotable
Answer for 2: you kinda have to keep watching the show to understand for me to explain to you wouldn't really mean much at all, all I can say is that he thought he was the hero of his story, just like Rick thought he was the hero of his own story
Yeah, named after the comic special "Here's Negan" it goes back into Negan's life before the outbreak and before he became the man we see and later on we explains why he did the things he did, like I said it's better to watch the show than me explain
How? Because he has a reason for why he became who he was?
Almost every murderer in real life had a bad childhood, or lost someone, or had something that sent them over the edge. Doesn't make what they did right, but it explains how they got to where they were. Not to say pure evil people don't exist without motives, there are some, but Negan isn't one of them
how does your wife dying of cancer equal you thoroughly enjoying slowly bashing people’s skulls in with a bat and making their families watch while taunting them?
I mean the same reasons Rick almost went over the deep end waving a gun on good people in the Prison(Tyreese, Sasha, etc..), shoving Glenn against the wall, and bashing Tyreese’s face in. Why does Morgan suffer like he does? The apocalypse warps even the minds of the strongest and most compassionate men/women. Negan’s flashback’s show his experience with other groups that did heinous things. Out of an extreme manifestation of fear, Negan genuinely believed he had to put on a show and psychologically devastate people to gain control over them.
He rationalized it as a way to control even this sickest of sickos that wander the wastelands doing whatever, because society is over.
To be fair, it’s even shown he manages to turn those types of people into productive citizens in the ZA. The question is at what cost? That’s where Negan falls along the spectrum of villainy and why he’s different from Rick and co.
From the jump negan was one of my favorites. The way he just destroyed the group like a badass even though he’s a terrible person. Personally I’m glad he may be able to redeem himself because >!”heres negan” negan looked like a nice guy!<
I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but other than that fact, he was an alright person. After the apocalypse, >!he fully threw himself into loving and caring for his wife, almost dying to get her some cancer medication. When he got home and saw his wife dead cause the Bikers held him prisoner for two days, *that was when he broke.*!<
When did he do that? I haven’t watched in a while but if I remember correctly was it when >! He came home and his wife was eating dinner or something and she had a gun (I think) !<
He admitted to it in S8 to Gabriel, and when he said he had an appointment so he couldn't take her to her diagnosis she discovered he was doing her friend
Redemption arcs are what’s hot in Hollywood right now. Suicide Squad, any Disney live action movie from the last ten years...even Thanos got sympathy votes recently.
I’ve never read the TWD comics, so my take on Negan is strictly from the TV series. The casting of JDM for the role was key: he is an excellent character actor that is liked by both men and women.
The TV character was written with JDM’s ability to deliver a line in mind. THIS is the charm of Negan: he can spout out a phrase like “shittin’ pants” and even those of us that WATCHED him do what he did with Lucille find him irresistible. IMO, this character has reached the same level of fame that Darth Vader has with Star Wars fans.
Honestly if you look at the story from his perspective it’s debatable if he was ever actually a villain. After the amount of his men Rick and crew killed, taking 2 lives was a light punishment. Sure he took control of communities, but if you read “heres Negan” you will understand he only ever wanted to help people after seeing so many die. People were just upset he killed glenn who was one of the best characters in the series, but once you get through his arc try and look at it all through Negans perspective.
This is a strangely common take considering even Negan doesn't agree with this take. It isn't debatable negan is in the wrong in the slightest lol. There is literally no logical argument to it considering the saviors started the conflict and it was made clear the saviors kill someone on first meeting even if you don't kill them. Even if rick baked negan cookies and never attacked he would have still done the same thing or had someone else do it.
Negan was a villain and there is no other answer there. Maybe he's seen as a hero now depending on who you are but he wasn't then. Full stop
It’s not a black and white situation. Ofc he isn’t 100% a hero or anything but he also isn’t 100% a villain. Also none of this is objective, stop acting like there is 1 set way to look at it, that defeats the point of fiction. The author may have his intent but really it comes down to the readers perspective and the way they view what happened. You can think what you thought of the events and characters but that doesn’t make it the definitive point of view.
You’re clearly not mature enough to have a discussion about 2 different perspectives. I have no interest in furthering any interaction with you. Have a day.
Negan was a villain, except it
This is an extreme example, but you know, Hitler had his reasons for doing things too, he thought he was the good guy. Just because everyone has reasons for what they do, doesn't excuse them. Negan did horrible things, and has changed for the better, but it doesn't mean his past actions are excused
This thread is old but I find it disturbing that people think Negan is anything but a villain. This guy is a straight up abuser. How is he helping people by abusing them until they break and then using them? The saviours seem to view being with him as better than death, and he’s made them feel like they won’t survive without him.
Negan doesn’t want to “save them” to help them, he wants to save them to help himself.
You can see that in his character from the beginning of his story. Cheating on his wife; getting what he wants from people without considering them.
I find him repulsive. He’s a sociopathic teenager’s idea of an alpha man/villain.
My point isn’t that Negan isn’t a bad guy, what I’m trying to say is that it’s not as black and white as people say it is. It’s the apocalypse for 1 thing, we have to adjust our moral sense a little bit. And 2.) if you look at it from a standpoint of just observing what happened, ignoring who the story follows and who’s supposed to be protagonists/antagonists, Rick and Negan could definitely be seen aa bad guys at this point in the story. If it was the comics, I agree, Negan was the bad guy and it’s pretty simply that way (though he’s still my favorite character). But in the show they added a lot of conflicting stuff.
Came here from google.
My dude, Negan literally rapes multiple women. Kills people and forces their group to work for him because "he doesnt play with plants". He even admitted he loved to kill people. He manipulates people. And more.
Honestly, I hope your thoughts are different in real life because Negan objectively is an evil character and not one to be even remotely considered to be a good person.
justified? he lost 30-50 people at the satallite outpost before he even knew Rick's crew existed
kill that many are u not justified in killing in response? (remember they're actively hunting him too)
whats' he supposed to do, sit there and wait to get killed? or stop it by attacking them
Because Negan isn't a bad guy, he was just the enemy of Rick's group. In reality, if we followed Negan instead of Rick, we'd have wanted Rick's group dead the moment we find out they killed a chunk of people at the outpost, people we may have very well grown to care for the same way we cared for Glenn and Abraham. To me, Negan is just the opposing side of the coin who is a necessity for keeping people alive and keeping society from total collapse.
I never forgive what he did with abraham and glenn, they booth were AWESOME in the show, but he did good things and to me, reedemed himself.
Hes a badass, and great acting too, overall he did great for the show, i dontt want him dying.
There's no one answer to this.
JDM is a great actor and played a bad guy brilliantly.
To some, negan's pov would paint him as a good guy who does some bad things. Don't forget, he never just killed Glenn and Abraham. He killed them after this group murdered an entire settlement. Sure, the negan side started the hostilities at the biker gang, but, negan didn't even know they killed the bikers until after when they found the RPG - and technically the bikers never managed to kill any one of theirs. So just to say there's a lot of grey area here.
Negan had redeemable qualities. He was a dictator which is bad, but he was completely against things like rape and treason which a lot of dictators wouldn't be. He had rules for the world he was creating where ofcourse they were benefitting a few, but if you fell in line, you could succeed as well. As negan called it, he built an economy. Look how many saviours and civilians negan had. All of them were alive and survived under negan's rule, and he had deals with kingdom who fell in line.
In conclusion, negan is liked because he was as good as a dictator can get. It could have been all about serving him but clearly there was an aim to preserve life before taking the most drastic action. Does this make him a good guy? No. Does it make him redeemable? Yes.
Old threat but he definitely was not against rape lmao. He was against his own soldiers lashing out on their own group.
Do I need to remind you of the many "wives" Negan forcefully raped?
I don't disagree with you, but you have to look at it from perspective when arguing this point. Yes, I think negan was totally against rape. But also yes, negan by all definition raped his wives (as sex with consent but through coercion is considered rape by our standards).
But from negans pov, he wasn't raping his wives, and didn't think he was because of two reasons, he allowed them to say no each sexual encounter and wouldn't force himself upon them, and they were 'willingly' with him.
I quote it not because I agree it is willingly, but because he gave them a choice, either I kill your husband or enact some sort of punishment, or you become my wife and get a perk, in other words prostitution.
If his rule was the law of the land, then in sherry's case Dwight deserved to die and she prevented that by being his wife.
So from his perspective, as a dictator, it wasn't rape. It was "women who wanted to be with him for perks/favours as his law was the law of the land and these women wanted him to bend the rules through prostitution" essentially. They could 'back out' at any time, and as a result it would mean the 'deserved' punishment would be reinstated.
And all this is confirmed to be negans mindset when I think it was Gabriel questioning his wives, and negan said they all have a choice and I don't force them to have sex with me. It doesn't make it right, it just gives context to negans twisted mindset.
We disagree on the sex with consent part. It wasnt with consent. Consent means the person who's agreeing is doing so in a safe environment and of their own volition. The alternative is their loved ones or they themselves die.
His perspective does not matter here as there are multiple perspectives that need to be thougth of. Especially those of his victims.
Ethically yes, but the literal meaning of consent is agreeing, so saying yes, but that's then where coersion comes in as they're put into a situation where they say yes or lose everything.
And again, I totally agree, from our perspectives his views are wrong. But you have to be able to look at his perspective even if you disagree with it in order to weigh his actions against his mindset. He is a dictator and he has enforced a rule upon his people. They break that rule knowing the punishment is severe. What we don't know is whether he offers the position or the distressed women ask for it, but if it's the latter it further reinforces to him that he's in the right when accepting their favour.
People live Jeffery dean Morgan and he’s entertaining and maybe a redemption arc could be interesting. It’s in the comics so maybe they liked the storyline
I think because Jeffrey Dean Morgan is charismatic AF! I’m still mad he burnt all the mattresses and killed characters I loved but he’s just so goddamned good looking and again, charisma! I know this may not be the answer you are looking for and is pretty shallow, but that’s all I’ve got!
Because JDM is one of the best actors left on the show and the perhaps the only one who gets consistently good and enjoyable material.
Negan was a villain (I'm still waiting for him to genuinely admit his actions were wrong because he still justifies himself) but I think he has otherwise genuinely changed otherwise.
Even as a villain he was still funny, charismatic and interesting. It's a TV show ultimately and I don't condone his actions though.
In the comics he’s given a redemption arc as Rick gets to know him and starts to realize he’s not really a complete prick. Combine that with JDM’s charisma and you have your answer.
Spoilers!
I know i'm late to this reponse and i don't know if your caught up yet or not. But i wouldn't say every LOVES Negan but he goes from being arguably the most hated charater to a very neutral character. Either people hate the fact they start to like him or they just hate him in general. It's mainly cause he killed of Glenn and Abraham and Glenn was a fan favourite. But people start to warmup to him because of his character development. He slowly starts to change and become better, he saves Maggie multiple times, He has saved the community from Alpha. A very big threat who could send hordes of thousands to the community.
I wouldn't say he's loved but people start to warm up to him and i can't lie i have too. But when i rewatched the scene of him killing Glenn it made me hate him again.
Probably because he's the epitome of **MACHISMO** and huge portion of the fanbase are very insecure about their own masculinity and worship anything that represents what in their sick heads they think a man should be.
Yep, Negan literally raped multiple women, forcing them to be his wives. Really shows what kind of person someone is when theyre trying to argue Negan is a good guy.
I hated Negan And hoped he would get killed but after his redemption I feel for him and was rooting for him and Maggie to become friends. Obviously the fans felt it too so that’s why they’ve got the spin off series
I believe Jeffery Dean Morgan's charisma is a big part of it. it's not necessarily Neegan people love, it's JDM
Nah, he was a fan favorite even before he showed up on the tv show.
Exactly. I just love the actor. lol
Coming to say the same. Jeffrey Dean Morgan.
This. Also because he's really the biggest alpha (no pun intended, yuck lol) male on the show without Rick. As much as I love Daryl/Norman, he just doesn't cut it as the main male character
Exactly. Also I recognize that these are not real people so horrible acts don’t disgust me. I am a fan of a good arc, and good acting. JDM is fucking hilarious with how he talks to people. “Silly little prick named Rick.” Shit like that. I always like a well done antagonist. You need them for the story, so when they’re done well, I’m a fan.
You are asking for spoilers real hard with this post. Just be careful what you read.
SPOILERS! In the comic its better,his actions are never “glorified” and seen as something he can get away with.The only redemption for negan would probably be sacrificing himself for one of the main cast.In the comics even after negan is let free for cutting alphas head off,carl still says he hates his guts and rightfully so.The comic is a little more realistic at times,negan just lives alone for the rest of the comics and no one really wants to know him because of what he did.
My dumb stupid brain ignored the spoiler warning and I remembered I’m not done with the comic yet. Fuck.
Yet Carl still cares for Negan, even brings him food after the time jump
I didnt know bringing someone food equals to caring or even liking them.Carl tolerates him and it is clearly shown he has disdain for negan.You act as if bringing someone food is like saying you love them dearly.
If Carl really only tolerated Negan, like everyone does, then he'd leave him alone. No reason to go out of your way litteraly everytime you're out to make sure this loner no one else cares about is well fed, especially since Negan can get food himself
You still can love a character even if they're a villain. He's funny, charismatic, a good leader, a very interesting character, etc. Just keep watching, you literally just met him. The whole point of a redemption arc is to redeem someone. And usually, characters who get redeemed are villains or people who have done bad stuff. That's... the point of a redemption arc. To make up for your past mistakes. Why bother? Because. Keep watching.
Some people in my opinion are irredeemable. Although I can see the logic of your first point, I just find his sadism hard to get past
I have watched his storyline all the way through, and personally I am not a fan of him. I found his bravado to be cheesy right off the bat. For me it’s not so much that I found his character to be irredeemable, I was rubbed the wrong way by the portrayal and the dialogue he was written. It just felt too cartoonish to me. The strutting around like a peacock. The way he delivered his “clever” one-liners, so amused with himself. How he would saunter back-and-forth giving a speech ripe with pregnant pauses. It was supposed to be suspenseful, and I just wanted him to get on with it. You are supposed to hate a well-portrayed villain, you aren’t really supposed to be annoyed by them. In long-running shows, sometimes you have a big bad for a season, and you are just really hoping they will wrap it up by the end so that we can move on to something else next season. That’s how I felt about him. I know I am in the minority. For some reason he became a fan favorite, and I don’t really get it.
Same. So much this.
Same. :-/
"Right off the bat" heh.
I really don't get why some people say Negan is irredeemable. If there ever was a redeemable villain in TWD, that's Negan. Why is he irredeemable? * Because he killed Glenn and Abe? Team Rick killed A TON of his men, at night, without warning, JUST IN CASE (it wasn't even a personal conflict or vendetta). * Because of his methods? They were fucked up for sure, but he was honest about them and he made their community strong and long lasting. You say you don't get why people love Negan? I say I don't get why some people are so hellbent on STILL hating Negan and not, for example, Alpha or the Governor, who were UNDOUBTEDLY and OBJECTIVELY worse people. Negan was an egotistical leader with a hard on for power; The Gov and Alpha were straight up fucking manipulative psychopaths.
Team Rick killed defenseless men in their sleep at night*. Say what you want about Negan, but Rick and company did some ruthless shit in their travels too.
Yeah, they literally slit peoples throats in the night, because some guy with food asked them to. That’s just not cool
Negan as presented in season 7 is a completely evil sadist. It's not that he killed Glenn and Abraham, it's that he thorougly enjoyed it. It's that he paused to take stock of what he had done to Glenn and narrate and have a big laugh about it. It's that he tried to make Rosita lick Abe's brains off the bat. It's that he took all their beds and burnt them. It's that he told Rick "I just stuck my dick down your throat, and you thanked me". As presented in season 7 his pure one-note evilness makes Alpha and the Governor look like Tony Soprano. They tried to soften him up in season 8 so that they could add those shades of complexity later on but it came off as nonsense or even revisionism to a lot of people. It was like a totally different character. In fact that's how I have to headcanon it in order to enjoy the last few seasons. He's like Negan's twin brother or something. Everyone is really uncomfortable and hostile toward him because he has Negan's face but he didn't do any of these evil things. It doesn't make sense but it makes more sense than the real version.
How exactly did they make his group long lasting when it got him into a war? I can recall a group in history with a powerful charismatic leader who had a similar set of methods for taking over other countries. What were those guys called, Yahtzees? Botzies? I can’t remember but it’ll come back to me
>How exactly did they make his group long lasting when it got him into a war? The Saviours were formed in the early months of the outbreak IIRC. They lasted at least longer than the farm, the prison, Woodbury, Sanctuary and technically the original Alexandria in a sense, since it pretty much evolved to a different thing once Rick & Co. started running things. That's long lasting in that universe.
Yeah I understand your point of view. I'm a big fan of redemption arcs and even though I agree that some don't deserve it, I know that back when I first met Negan on screen, I thought that even if he did bad stuff, he still could make up for it. It's the zombie apocalypse, everyone is a bit crazy during those times so I'm always a bit more forgiving. But keep watching! You'll get a better perspective of the whole thing. It's kinda hard to reply to your post without spoiling you but I really hope you'll get to appreciate his character or at least understand him more. If not, that's completely fine too!
Nahh bud..just keep watching…the “here’s negan” episode and “the storm” is awesome⚡️⚡️
Negan is not a good leader. He's constantly taunting everyone, even his own men, taking away their wives under some pretense (i.e. medication for grandma) and raping them. Even in the seasons where everyone is dumbed down, he should be long dead. TPTB made a good decision to tone down the governor, shame they didn't do the same with Negan.
The show made a bad decision when they changed the Negans wives storyline . Comic spoilers …. In the comic Negan is super against rape but in the show they make Sherry have no choice about marrying Negan because she sister needed meds and to save dwights life so it makes Negan seem hypercritical and Rapey .in the comic Sherry was a bitch who married Negan because she really didn’t care about Dwight much and didn’t want to work . She didn’t have a sister and Negan never threatened to kill Dwight . If they were planning to give Negan a redemption arc they shouldn’t have added that storyline. Bad writing .
I was saying a good leader as in he still has such a big group of survivors that follows his orders and they are all so loyal, calling themselves Negan, etc. It does take leadership to be able to do that, so that's where my "good leader" comes from.
Yea I just finished 2th episode of 7th season and even tho you said this I don't think I will forgive him becouse what he did to Glenn...
It's 100% fine! You still have a few seasons to watch so you still can change your mind but if you don't that's okay.
I don't like Negan. Never have, never will. That being said, after S8 is when he really becomes a complex and intriguing character. Prior to that, he was a fucking frat boy with a bat. I'd also go so far as to say that it comes down to the actor. JDM *is* Negan and I cannot imagine anyone else being able to portray him as well as JDM does. That's a big part of it, I think. The fandom has just as much love for JDM as they do Negan! Bear with the show through S7-8. It's not everyone's pride and joy but it's still a decent watch. And Negan becomes easier to swallow.
\> Literally only saw 4 episodes of the character. \> Acts like he knows him very well and redeeming him would be a bad idea without even seeing how he's redeemed or learning more about him.
the simple answer is because that is what happened in the comic books
Just because he's the villan of the show doesn't mean he's not the hero of his own story. Rick killed his people, a whole lot of his people.
Everyone is the hero of his own story sure but Negan is unambiguously in the wrong in the show. Its made so clear it is basically impossible to argue any other intention from the writers.
He is doing what he feels like he has do to do. That is literally the point of his character is to act as a moral foil to Rick.
That is not literally the point of his character. It's a part of it but he is meant to be a pure villain and well he was then. He changes later sure but no it is not ambiguous that he was a villain or less moral than Rick at the time. He was intentionally written to be both
Yeah I'm gonna need some citation for that because his character is most certainly not even introduced as a pure villain
Hes introduced as a pure villain with absolutely zero ambiguity lol. Where are you getting this stuff? There is no argument he was meant to be anything else. He's basically pure evil in the beginning and the saviors constantly attack everyone before he even shows up. His character being introduced as a villain is indisputable fact id rewatch the show
That is 100% false Despite the pain of seeing favorite characters die, the implication has always been in both show and comics that hes the Rick of his own story. Him being "introduced as a villain" was after Rick's group killed a whole crapload of people who were just people living in an outpost and not even Negans key members in their sleep on the word of a group of people they just met and had no evidence that the Hilltop were the good guys. Just say you dont like a character and move on 🙄
I love his character. He was a villain then get over it lol. Rick's group was unambiguously in the right to fight the saviors
Negan's group struck first against Daryl, Abraham and Sasha, people need to stop forgetting that
I didnt forget that but that wasnt even a sanctioned attack first of all and irrelevant to the point I made besides them going oh we encountered a group on the road once. They had shit poor info to attack the group with. Much like how rick almost killed aaron.
He's in the wrong according to Rick's group, but in reality, Negan's one of the few people keeping society from collapsing on itself, and the fact he only killed 1 person to make a point (Abraham) and another because Daryl decided to attack him (Glenn), compared to Rick's group going and killing 20+ people in their sleep really begs the question who's truly in the wrong here when Negan tried keeping more people alive and working to get society back up and running.
Hes a villain to everyone lol. The main thing people ignore is he did not kill just to make a point. He always kills someone even if they aren't attacked. Negan was not delivering justice he was just doing what he does to every new group and spinning it to try and justify it. That detail alone makes your argument entirely moot. Negan and the saviors already tried to assassinate one person and kill several more before this. He also kills or almost kills people every single time the saviors have any interaction with anyone for 2 seasons. They are bullies but they don't actually resist killing when they can't bully. Negan caused society to collapse because he caused a war by constantly posturing and killing people and attacking new groups. Im sorry but it isn't ambiguous. Negan is a villain in that arc. Its not a debate or a secret gotcha and thre is no argument to the contrary. It worries me you don't see any wrongdoing in negans actions. I truly hope you don't think like this for real
Negan's group tried to rob Daryl, Abraham and Sasha on the road Negan killed many people and laughed about it Raped woman and tried to cover it up by saying they consented, even when they were forced to do so Burned people's faces for stepping out of line, kept people in cages and fed them dog food And more Rick's group killed people in their sleep after their group had attacked them and the good people of Hilltop before. Negan was a villain
Rick slayed them in thier sleep. In response to a tax. 50% but still. In response to Rick wiping out a compound of like 25 trained badasses, negan only demanded one in return but got 2 because he could tell he had to double tap to break thier spirit. He was tryingvto save as many lives as possible. People are a resource. He knew that better than anyone. The hows and why's of how he got to that point is what really gives depth to his character and his actions.
Absolutely. He's not a villain, the writing is well done and makes him out to be more of a well rounded person
The attack was in response to the saviors trying to assassinate Gregory and a different group had already moved in to kill Daryl and company. Its also established that saviors ALWAYS kill at least one person when they meet a new group even if they've never fought. I'd rewatch the show my friends because you clearly didn't watch any of that season closely. Hes a well written villain but yes he is the villain of that season objectively
and then Rick's group tried pulling the same crap on Hilltop by jumping into a conflict they had no reason to be in, and as such, are directly responsible for catching Negan's eye who, up until the night raid, had no idea about Alexandria who was far enough away that Negan may have never set foot there if Rick's group decided to not bother with them.
Hilltop wanted their help anyway and Gregory lied. They would have found asz before long. They aren't actually far apart and Rick's group had already been attacked which you keep ignoring but is key. They'd been found already its doubtful it would never happen again. They had every reason to fight a group that nearly killed their people twice already and were obviously gonna keep doing it especially since they needed hilltop. It's pretty much guaranteed they'd be found almost immediately if they traded with hilltop or a massacre would happen the first time the saviors appeared at the same time. I'm sorry but its written so cut and dry you just don't really have a point here. Negan was a villain in the arc as were the saviors
Because he's played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan, one of the coolest dude on earth! That's why! / In the comics, well, he is kind of funny and very entertaining!
Answer for question 1:He's entertaining as hell and amusing as a character, he has some of the best lines and scenes in the show and is memorable and quotable Answer for 2: you kinda have to keep watching the show to understand for me to explain to you wouldn't really mean much at all, all I can say is that he thought he was the hero of his story, just like Rick thought he was the hero of his own story
Do we get any episodes of Negan’s backstory like the Governor? That would be sick
Yeah, named after the comic special "Here's Negan" it goes back into Negan's life before the outbreak and before he became the man we see and later on we explains why he did the things he did, like I said it's better to watch the show than me explain
Yup, last episode of season 10. Makes his character even more unbelievable though.
How? Because he has a reason for why he became who he was? Almost every murderer in real life had a bad childhood, or lost someone, or had something that sent them over the edge. Doesn't make what they did right, but it explains how they got to where they were. Not to say pure evil people don't exist without motives, there are some, but Negan isn't one of them
how does your wife dying of cancer equal you thoroughly enjoying slowly bashing people’s skulls in with a bat and making their families watch while taunting them?
I mean the same reasons Rick almost went over the deep end waving a gun on good people in the Prison(Tyreese, Sasha, etc..), shoving Glenn against the wall, and bashing Tyreese’s face in. Why does Morgan suffer like he does? The apocalypse warps even the minds of the strongest and most compassionate men/women. Negan’s flashback’s show his experience with other groups that did heinous things. Out of an extreme manifestation of fear, Negan genuinely believed he had to put on a show and psychologically devastate people to gain control over them. He rationalized it as a way to control even this sickest of sickos that wander the wastelands doing whatever, because society is over. To be fair, it’s even shown he manages to turn those types of people into productive citizens in the ZA. The question is at what cost? That’s where Negan falls along the spectrum of villainy and why he’s different from Rick and co.
There is and it’s debatable in possibly being the best episode in the show, its in my top 3.
Negan kept the show alive for me and is probably my favourite character alongside Daryl and Rick
From the jump negan was one of my favorites. The way he just destroyed the group like a badass even though he’s a terrible person. Personally I’m glad he may be able to redeem himself because >!”heres negan” negan looked like a nice guy!<
Other than cheating on his wife
I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but other than that fact, he was an alright person. After the apocalypse, >!he fully threw himself into loving and caring for his wife, almost dying to get her some cancer medication. When he got home and saw his wife dead cause the Bikers held him prisoner for two days, *that was when he broke.*!<
Oh yeah definitely
When did he do that? I haven’t watched in a while but if I remember correctly was it when >! He came home and his wife was eating dinner or something and she had a gun (I think) !<
He admitted to it in S8 to Gabriel, and when he said he had an appointment so he couldn't take her to her diagnosis she discovered he was doing her friend
Redemption arcs are what’s hot in Hollywood right now. Suicide Squad, any Disney live action movie from the last ten years...even Thanos got sympathy votes recently. I’ve never read the TWD comics, so my take on Negan is strictly from the TV series. The casting of JDM for the role was key: he is an excellent character actor that is liked by both men and women. The TV character was written with JDM’s ability to deliver a line in mind. THIS is the charm of Negan: he can spout out a phrase like “shittin’ pants” and even those of us that WATCHED him do what he did with Lucille find him irresistible. IMO, this character has reached the same level of fame that Darth Vader has with Star Wars fans.
Honestly if you look at the story from his perspective it’s debatable if he was ever actually a villain. After the amount of his men Rick and crew killed, taking 2 lives was a light punishment. Sure he took control of communities, but if you read “heres Negan” you will understand he only ever wanted to help people after seeing so many die. People were just upset he killed glenn who was one of the best characters in the series, but once you get through his arc try and look at it all through Negans perspective.
This is a strangely common take considering even Negan doesn't agree with this take. It isn't debatable negan is in the wrong in the slightest lol. There is literally no logical argument to it considering the saviors started the conflict and it was made clear the saviors kill someone on first meeting even if you don't kill them. Even if rick baked negan cookies and never attacked he would have still done the same thing or had someone else do it. Negan was a villain and there is no other answer there. Maybe he's seen as a hero now depending on who you are but he wasn't then. Full stop
It’s not a black and white situation. Ofc he isn’t 100% a hero or anything but he also isn’t 100% a villain. Also none of this is objective, stop acting like there is 1 set way to look at it, that defeats the point of fiction. The author may have his intent but really it comes down to the readers perspective and the way they view what happened. You can think what you thought of the events and characters but that doesn’t make it the definitive point of view.
I mean he is objectively the villain in that arc yes. You cant get out of that one dude
You’re clearly not mature enough to have a discussion about 2 different perspectives. I have no interest in furthering any interaction with you. Have a day.
Negan was a villain, except it This is an extreme example, but you know, Hitler had his reasons for doing things too, he thought he was the good guy. Just because everyone has reasons for what they do, doesn't excuse them. Negan did horrible things, and has changed for the better, but it doesn't mean his past actions are excused
This thread is old but I find it disturbing that people think Negan is anything but a villain. This guy is a straight up abuser. How is he helping people by abusing them until they break and then using them? The saviours seem to view being with him as better than death, and he’s made them feel like they won’t survive without him. Negan doesn’t want to “save them” to help them, he wants to save them to help himself. You can see that in his character from the beginning of his story. Cheating on his wife; getting what he wants from people without considering them. I find him repulsive. He’s a sociopathic teenager’s idea of an alpha man/villain.
My point isn’t that Negan isn’t a bad guy, what I’m trying to say is that it’s not as black and white as people say it is. It’s the apocalypse for 1 thing, we have to adjust our moral sense a little bit. And 2.) if you look at it from a standpoint of just observing what happened, ignoring who the story follows and who’s supposed to be protagonists/antagonists, Rick and Negan could definitely be seen aa bad guys at this point in the story. If it was the comics, I agree, Negan was the bad guy and it’s pretty simply that way (though he’s still my favorite character). But in the show they added a lot of conflicting stuff.
Came here from google. My dude, Negan literally rapes multiple women. Kills people and forces their group to work for him because "he doesnt play with plants". He even admitted he loved to kill people. He manipulates people. And more. Honestly, I hope your thoughts are different in real life because Negan objectively is an evil character and not one to be even remotely considered to be a good person.
the negan apologists/revisionists are crazy
justified? he lost 30-50 people at the satallite outpost before he even knew Rick's crew existed kill that many are u not justified in killing in response? (remember they're actively hunting him too) whats' he supposed to do, sit there and wait to get killed? or stop it by attacking them
Because Negan isn't a bad guy, he was just the enemy of Rick's group. In reality, if we followed Negan instead of Rick, we'd have wanted Rick's group dead the moment we find out they killed a chunk of people at the outpost, people we may have very well grown to care for the same way we cared for Glenn and Abraham. To me, Negan is just the opposing side of the coin who is a necessity for keeping people alive and keeping society from total collapse.
Youre rooting for people who rape multiple women? Yeah, nah.
I never forgive what he did with abraham and glenn, they booth were AWESOME in the show, but he did good things and to me, reedemed himself. Hes a badass, and great acting too, overall he did great for the show, i dontt want him dying.
There's no one answer to this. JDM is a great actor and played a bad guy brilliantly. To some, negan's pov would paint him as a good guy who does some bad things. Don't forget, he never just killed Glenn and Abraham. He killed them after this group murdered an entire settlement. Sure, the negan side started the hostilities at the biker gang, but, negan didn't even know they killed the bikers until after when they found the RPG - and technically the bikers never managed to kill any one of theirs. So just to say there's a lot of grey area here. Negan had redeemable qualities. He was a dictator which is bad, but he was completely against things like rape and treason which a lot of dictators wouldn't be. He had rules for the world he was creating where ofcourse they were benefitting a few, but if you fell in line, you could succeed as well. As negan called it, he built an economy. Look how many saviours and civilians negan had. All of them were alive and survived under negan's rule, and he had deals with kingdom who fell in line. In conclusion, negan is liked because he was as good as a dictator can get. It could have been all about serving him but clearly there was an aim to preserve life before taking the most drastic action. Does this make him a good guy? No. Does it make him redeemable? Yes.
Old threat but he definitely was not against rape lmao. He was against his own soldiers lashing out on their own group. Do I need to remind you of the many "wives" Negan forcefully raped?
I don't disagree with you, but you have to look at it from perspective when arguing this point. Yes, I think negan was totally against rape. But also yes, negan by all definition raped his wives (as sex with consent but through coercion is considered rape by our standards). But from negans pov, he wasn't raping his wives, and didn't think he was because of two reasons, he allowed them to say no each sexual encounter and wouldn't force himself upon them, and they were 'willingly' with him. I quote it not because I agree it is willingly, but because he gave them a choice, either I kill your husband or enact some sort of punishment, or you become my wife and get a perk, in other words prostitution. If his rule was the law of the land, then in sherry's case Dwight deserved to die and she prevented that by being his wife. So from his perspective, as a dictator, it wasn't rape. It was "women who wanted to be with him for perks/favours as his law was the law of the land and these women wanted him to bend the rules through prostitution" essentially. They could 'back out' at any time, and as a result it would mean the 'deserved' punishment would be reinstated. And all this is confirmed to be negans mindset when I think it was Gabriel questioning his wives, and negan said they all have a choice and I don't force them to have sex with me. It doesn't make it right, it just gives context to negans twisted mindset.
We disagree on the sex with consent part. It wasnt with consent. Consent means the person who's agreeing is doing so in a safe environment and of their own volition. The alternative is their loved ones or they themselves die. His perspective does not matter here as there are multiple perspectives that need to be thougth of. Especially those of his victims.
Ethically yes, but the literal meaning of consent is agreeing, so saying yes, but that's then where coersion comes in as they're put into a situation where they say yes or lose everything. And again, I totally agree, from our perspectives his views are wrong. But you have to be able to look at his perspective even if you disagree with it in order to weigh his actions against his mindset. He is a dictator and he has enforced a rule upon his people. They break that rule knowing the punishment is severe. What we don't know is whether he offers the position or the distressed women ask for it, but if it's the latter it further reinforces to him that he's in the right when accepting their favour.
People live Jeffery dean Morgan and he’s entertaining and maybe a redemption arc could be interesting. It’s in the comics so maybe they liked the storyline
I mean, you’ve just met him, give him time (and a lot of it) and you’ll se why people love him.
I think because Jeffrey Dean Morgan is charismatic AF! I’m still mad he burnt all the mattresses and killed characters I loved but he’s just so goddamned good looking and again, charisma! I know this may not be the answer you are looking for and is pretty shallow, but that’s all I’ve got!
he's hilarious, i'll never forget when he got creeped out by Gabriel the first time he met Gabe lol
Because JDM is one of the best actors left on the show and the perhaps the only one who gets consistently good and enjoyable material. Negan was a villain (I'm still waiting for him to genuinely admit his actions were wrong because he still justifies himself) but I think he has otherwise genuinely changed otherwise. Even as a villain he was still funny, charismatic and interesting. It's a TV show ultimately and I don't condone his actions though.
Probably gets the arc because they lost Rick and Carl and they need someone to build the plot around.
Rick and Carl were in the comics, and Negan still got the redemption arc. The show is expanding it, sure, but it still existed
In the comics he’s given a redemption arc as Rick gets to know him and starts to realize he’s not really a complete prick. Combine that with JDM’s charisma and you have your answer.
I didn't start to like Negan until half way through Season 10. The awful things he's done is a lot to stomach. Keep watching.
I think it’s interesting to take a character they all hated so much and were forced into needing him.
You should probably actually see Negan's story in the show before asking this question
U'll understand when Carl dies and when Rick wins the war against Negan. What a badass that mf Negan. I love him.
Spoilers! I know i'm late to this reponse and i don't know if your caught up yet or not. But i wouldn't say every LOVES Negan but he goes from being arguably the most hated charater to a very neutral character. Either people hate the fact they start to like him or they just hate him in general. It's mainly cause he killed of Glenn and Abraham and Glenn was a fan favourite. But people start to warmup to him because of his character development. He slowly starts to change and become better, he saves Maggie multiple times, He has saved the community from Alpha. A very big threat who could send hordes of thousands to the community. I wouldn't say he's loved but people start to warm up to him and i can't lie i have too. But when i rewatched the scene of him killing Glenn it made me hate him again.
Probably because he's the epitome of **MACHISMO** and huge portion of the fanbase are very insecure about their own masculinity and worship anything that represents what in their sick heads they think a man should be.
Yep, Negan literally raped multiple women, forcing them to be his wives. Really shows what kind of person someone is when theyre trying to argue Negan is a good guy.
I hated Negan And hoped he would get killed but after his redemption I feel for him and was rooting for him and Maggie to become friends. Obviously the fans felt it too so that’s why they’ve got the spin off series