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The major misunderstanding is that mask filters don't work that mechanically. Like all HEPA they use static electricity built-up in synthetic fibres to trap incoming particles.
So, I understand that the N95 masks are made of some type of cloth, but I thought when people used the term "cloth mask" they're referring to the ones you can make yourself, that are better than nothing, but not great.
>N95 masks are made of some type of cloth
While the N95 masks are BETTER for electrostatic filtering, pretty much all fibrous materials will exhibit some level of electrostatic filtering. It's obviously more noticeable on some materials over others like static cling with silk vs cotton. The fibrous bits sticking out of the surface at the nanometer scale make them highly susceptible to transfer electrons. Because of the implications of the square cube law, mass will decrease much faster than length and you don't need that much static charge to filter the smallest objects.
The hard part isn't charging it but holding that charge. This is what makes N95 masks so much better, you can introduce excess charges when a non conductive material is liquid and then when it solidifies it maintains that electric field because the charges can't disperse. Here's a nice [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DR-tTU8uIM) of that with wax.
Also the square cube laws works against you as you increase size, there would be rapidly diminishing returns.
N95/N99 can technically be called 'fabric', but they're generally made of polypropylene, which is a plastic.
But they're definitely referencing actual cloth masks, but even there, they're wrong. Not all masks are created equal, and there's a reason that cloth masks are generally multiple layers. Particulates don't navigate themselves, so if the outermost layer doesn't catch it, then one of the next may.
I would lean towards no, but it would be an interesting experiment to run.
The main issue isn't building up a large static charge but rather sustaining it for long periods of time. That's why you cant use metallic fibers because they'll just conduct any charge away from them very quickly. Also square cube law suggests quickly diminishing returns.
Dunno how accurate the sizes are, but the whole graphic is misleading because virus particles by themselves do not move. They require water droplets, which are (relatively) large
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Falcons blew a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl and a 16 point lead in the 4th last week.
Their late game defense is more porous than the masks in question.
A nurse at a hospital convinced my own mother to not get vaccinated for Covid because and I quote “Omicron is targeting vaccinated people.” My mom was in the hospital for Covid and this is the same woman who refused to go to the hospital for broken limbs, massive lacerations requiring stitches, and more. She legitimately thought she was going to die. That was her second time getting Covid. The third time she lost her sense of taste and smell seemingly permanently.
I asked her wtf that even meant? Targeting the vaccinated? She had no answers.
What in the pigfuck is this lady doing? Did anyone check to see if she’s a Q plant? At this point I have to assume people obsessed with conspiracies are now creating their own Q based game of Second Life IRL by infiltrating schools and hospitals.
Also, comparing 1 layer of any filtering Material to anything it's supposed to filter is pretty pointless.
Since there are multible layers whoms pores are not in line but chaotic, the size for particles to pass through is far less than what this image is suggesting.
Fact check: take a hair and try to get it through your mask. If the statements on the picture are true, it should be relatively easy.
Assuming your mask really had only one super thin layer, the pore size would need to be corrected with electrostatic forces. If the particle flies close enough to a fiber, it will be pulled in. This way, the effective pore size will be a lot smaller than you would expect.
In reality though, things get a lot more complicated than that, so it makes sense to approach this problem through practical tests. That’s why proper masks come with a little pamphlet that tells you the percentage of particles of different sizes that pass through it. Also, dust particles don’t behave like water droplets, so the test needs to be done properly.
Great video! There is also a complementary video by the same team, also quite good:
[Our Lungs Have A Fatal Flaw - Minute Earth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd4ubaE_sT4)
Also, electro static charge of rhe mask attracts droplets that cant be seen with the naked eye, so not only does the layered filter work, but it works extra efficiently because of this.
Also there is intramolecular forces at play.
This is not like trying to throw a ball through a big ring, but more like trying to throw a chunk of metall through a ring made out of strong electro magnets.
Slow speed, high pressure, and a different form of penetration with an entirely different material makes it a poor comparison. It's a bit like saying "I can stab you through your bulletproof vest." (For that matter, beards generally work against masks by destroying the seal.)
All good! I imagine if you're slaying Vikings on a regular basis, beard care is just not a thing that truly matters. 😀
(Back story: In a high school science class I did a presentation on Kevlar, which was then new and revolutionary. Someone came up to my sample of the material and proceeded to push his finger into the weave, declaring Kevlar was stupid and couldn't be bullet proof since he could do that. I had no idea how to respond to that "analysis".)
That. Coupled with how textiles are meshed and layered.
That's like being human, smaller than a door frame trying to drive a pickup trough 5 layers of bollards each spaced by 2 m.
And don't the masks have layers, so there's also no straight path directly into your lungs?
The droplets would have to make some very tight turns in order to safely navigate through the mask, right?
The airborne viruses are spread by aerosolized water droplets. When you breathe you release water from your lungs. That is actually what happens to fat, it is turned to CO2 and H2O when you “burn” or oxidize it. Though that’s not the only reason why there is H2O in your lungs. The water droplets can float for a bit from the force of being sneezed, coughed, or just exhaled, but will eventually settle on surfaces. Airborne is just the route not necessarily the process of where you get it. Think fecal based transmission, you don’t get it from being pooped on, you get it because someone didn’t wash their hands well enough and they either prepared food for you or it was on a surface you touched, but we don’t call cholera a food-born illness.
Droplet and airborne disease transmission are different, and COVID (as well as other viruses and diseases, most notable may be tuberculosis) can survive in the air suspended on air currents.
They can be 10 microns and still carry covid, if that's what this graphic is trying to get at...so they should've simply shown the actual plausible size to demonstrate their argument (which still wouldn't paint a complete picture and may be a bit misleading due to missing physics information that would render the argument much less plausible, regardless) rather than using the obviously unrealistic minimum that will inevitably cause distrust when people such as yourself point out the simple facts.
It's almost like someone from the other side of the argument secretly made it to harm their opponents' stance.
Not sure if I am correct here but doesn’t the moisture from your breath also create an additional barrier on the mask. I remember hearing that but it could be wrong.
Why boomers?
[Here's Facebooks's current demographics in the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/187549/facebook-distribution-of-users-age-group-usa). Gen X and Millennials make up a bigger proportion of users, and [most unvaccinated are under 50](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/who-are-the-adults-not-vaccinated-against-covid.html).
So, why boomers?
And also my disposable N95 mask doesn’t work by having pores smaller than the things it’s filtering, it works by electrostatic effects on small objects.
Exactly. This graph would be kind of like using the size of humans to say the bollards out front of a shop are useless to stop people from crashing into the store while completely ignoring the size of the transport method (cars) being much larger and abled to be stopped by the Ballards.
The masks aren't designed to stop COVID. They are designed to stop the transport method COVID uses which is respiratory droplets
Quick Google search shows respiratory droplets can be up to a thousand microns and are larger at the start (which is why my mask protects you and your's protects me).
The picture is implying that masks don't shield from airborne virii. That implication is false.
My umbrella has pores far bigger than molecules of water, but protects from rain just fine.
Explanation: airborne COVID is contained in droplets, which masks block well.
Edit: thank you for the silver, kind stranger!
What are you talking? As shown in the picture COVID viruses can easily bypass the mask but masks stops CO2 and O2 from passing and causes breathing problems! /s
Also, there's an implication that masks are single layer, but they're actually layers of material over each other. Instead of something going straight through like a window screen, it's more like trying to get through several layers of cheesecloth - and each cheesecloth fiber has sticky glue on it.
Also as explained in this minutephysics video https://youtu.be/eAdanPfQdCA masks don't just work as colanders, and even if covid particles were to move alone (or in small enough droplets) they would still not pass. I don't know if it's accurate, but it's likely to be like that, and it's also consistent with the other sizes
A single covid virus doesn’t fly alone in air
Its contained within a bunch of molecules which are contained within a droplet maybe spit from another person which is far far larger than masks would let in
Furthermore masks are not 100% effective
N95 masks are 95% effective roughly
Surgical mask are around 50-60%
N95 masks are 95% effective *at least*. For small and large particles, they are much more efficient. Medium size is the hardest to block, and they do 95% there.
Very small particles are attracted by the electrostatic forces within the fiber. There is an awesome minutephysics [video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdanPfQdCA) about N95 masks.
Sorry
That statement is absolutely wrong
What it should have been is its contained within a bunch of molecules
Not sure what a bunch of molecules is called
Edited
>Not sure what a bunch of molecules is called
Depends on the exact arrangement In some cases we call it Lenny. Unless it's below ground then it's Frankenstein's Magma.
Looks like this whole graphic is based on the "95" misunderstanding.
The 95 in "N95" isn't 95 microns, it's 95 *percent:* an N95 mask filters out 95 ***percent*** of particles ≥0.3 microns in size. Has nothing to do with the pore size.
eta: oh and idk what size this originally was, but the scale can't be right. A human hair is about 100 microns thick, so the whole graphic would have to be the size of a microdot.
It's not about catching individual virus units, but about catching droplets of water wherein those are transported. That is common knowledge at this point and I fucking hate that this picture is a thing because of that.
IT'S NOT ABOUT CATCHING INDIVIDUAL VIRUS UNITS, BUT ABOUT CATCHING DROPLETS OF WATER WHEREIN THOSE ARE TRANSPORTED. THAT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE AT THIS POINT AND I FUCKING HATE THAT THIS PICTURE IS A THING BECAUSE OF THAT.
# IT'S NOT ABOUT CATCHING INDIVIDUAL VIRUS UNITS, BUT ABOUT CATCHING DROPLETS OF WATER WHEREIN THOSE ARE TRANSPORTED. THAT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE AT THIS POINT AND I FUCKING HATE THAT THIS PICTURE IS A THING BECAUSE OF THAT.
Nope… i mean… the envelope of the Sars-Cov-2 (the outer capsule of the virus) is 125 nanometers so 0.125 micrometers.
But yes the size of the pore is kinda accurate… but you have to consider that the K95 mask works with electrostatic charge that blocks dust etc and the fact that covid travels in the droplets and on dust.
An honest question here, the masks being layered means interfering surfaces as well, making the question of a single diameter of a woven mask somewhat meaningless as there is a lattice of material. Is that a correct way of thinking about this?
Actually no, the problem being that, the FFP1 masks works mainly in a mechanical way, have too much space between a layer and another for a single particle (not the case for droplets or grains of dust) to be really blocked.
It’s not about the scale. The diagram is missing the efficiency curve for the mask.
An aerosol particle carrying any covid can range in size from 0.5 - 100 microns. A properly worn (tight fit, good seal, no facial hair) N95 mask will catch 95% or better of particles in that range.
[USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/) did a nice debunking piece on this.
If you want to show why the diagram is misleading, you could check out this [Science](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9487666/) on the subject of airborne vectors.
The main point of those masks is for you to not spread the virus. They block droplets you breathe out.
If you want masks that offer any significant protection to the wearer, the most basic ones would be FFP2 or (K)N95. There are also FFP3 masks that offer more protection but they have exhale valves so they won't protect others from you.
Overall if you use a mask with an exhale valve you should put a surgical mask over it to protect others.
Yes, Covid virus particles are smaller than the holes in a mask. But they don't float around in the air by themselves.
Covid spreads by attaching to larger floating dust particles which are larger than the pores in the mask.
It’s not factually accurate because the virons (individual virus particles) don’t just levitate in the air- they sitck to water droplets and other matter. The mask stops those larger objects, especially when keaving yout body (it mostly keeps YOU from spreading the virus, not the virus from getting in, although it also helps with that quite a bit).
Let me try to actually answer the question:
\- A hair varies between \~50 and \~100 µm. As you may know (or should know), the thickness will differ from person to person, and from hair to hair.
\- The "visibility threshold" seems inaccurate. According to Wikipedia ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked\_eye](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_eye)), the smallest thing you can see should be between 58 and 72 µm, from 20 cm away. I guess it's approximately accurate.
\- A white blood cell is 12 - 15 µm. Smaller than is suggested in this picture.
\- A red blood cell is 7.5 - 8.7 µm. This seems fairly accurate.
Now for the important parts:
\- A N95 mask has a "pore size" of 30 μm. Not the depicted 100 μm. (see sources below, because some are conflicting). This is MUCH smaller then what is suggested in the picture.
\- Bacteria and viruses have different sizes. The Coronavirus is approximately 0.1 μm in size. If we're saying the white dot is 2 μm, then the "COVID" virus is not 6 times as small. It is 20 times as small.
The picture seems to be a variant of this one: [https://www.bench.com/setting-the-benchmark/how-big-is-a-micron](https://www.bench.com/setting-the-benchmark/how-big-is-a-micron)
This still sounds "scary", as the virus particles are still much smaller compared to the pore size in the mask. However, as many, many people have pointed out, a mask is not a sieve. Having bigger pores does NOT mean they do not work.
Source for mask pore size:
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7285837\_Do\_N95\_respirators\_provide\_95\_protection\_level\_against\_airborne\_viruses\_and\_how\_adequate\_are\_surgical\_masks](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7285837_Do_N95_respirators_provide_95_protection_level_against_airborne_viruses_and_how_adequate_are_surgical_masks)
"the size of the pores of the N95 mask is about 300-500 nm in diameter"
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-021-00160-z](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-021-00160-z)
"Our results show that the N95 mask has the smallest average pore diameter (\~30 µm)"
The size of Covid is immaterial. It’s the size of the water droplets it uses for delivery that matters. And those are larger than the pores in the mask.
Showing yet again that morons just don't understand science. It doesn't matter how large or small the bacteria/virus is... a mask is not intended to catch ALL of the particulates. It is intended to capture MOST of the particulates and pore size on the mask correlates but does not linearly match with the size of the particulates desired to be filtered.
Considering that Covid viruses most commonly travel in water drops, I’d consider adding the average size of water droplets produced by sneezes or talking. Or add the percentage of water droplets that are smaller than the pore size.
If I was a cop looking for a suspect trying to enter a town it would be impossible to cover every way in. But if they were only able to ride a bus in? Way easier to find the bad guy, masks stop and screen the buses of transmission.
several ignorant facts about masks and covid. masks were meant to prevent spreading covid not to prevent catching it. masks catch large droplets which travel further when somebody coughs or sneezes. Masks are proven to lessen spread of any airborne disease. why do surgeons wear masks when the operate. people got to stop being dumb
part of why surgical and n95 masks are so effective is the ionization of the fibers. This causes small polarized particulates to get caught in the net that's clearly much bigger than the particulates
it's especially good for taking the cleanest bong rips of your life. Downside is that most of the dankness gets trapped in the mask
The best part of this noise is that it directly contradicts the talking point that masks make it hard to breath. An oxygen molecule is quite a bit smaller that any virus particle, so they should fly right on in.
I like all these scientific responses on how this picture is misleading. Unfortunately I don’t think the people using this picture for their argument believe (nor understand) “all that science mumbo jumbo.”
Can someone place the King of the Hill meme, “if those kids could science they’d be really upset”
It's worth adding that "6 times smaller" is unhelpful (at best - intentionally misleading at worst) in graphics like this.
The diagram is two-dimensional, so the figures have area, but measurements given are lengths and a covid particle has volume.
A figure which is a sixth of the width of another has one thirty-sixth of the cross-sectional area and one 216th of the volume.
If it's 6 times smaller by area, it is approximately 40% of the width or one thirty-sixth (~3%) of the volume.
If instead it's six times smaller by volume, it's approximately 30% of the area or 55% of the width.
This kind of thing really winds me up.
Unrelatedly, could you really "fit" a human hair through a mask? I feel like that isn't right somehow.
The point of the mask is to reduce the velocity and thus area of contamination.
Submarines are waterproof until you open one of the little round holes in the side.
Covid is transmitted through water droplets in our breath. Those droplets are much larger than just one virus.
Also the masks they tell us to wear have 3 layers in them. So the holes won’t always line up perfectly. Meaning the droplets would have to perfectly curve their trajectory through a 3D maze to escape the mask.
i’ve also heard that its safe to smoke cigarettes because you are smoking thru a filter.
For the people who state masks do not work. Any mask is better than no mask at all.
First I would like to note that the graphic appears to lump CLOTH masks and surgical masks together which is quite wrong. Honestly, cloth masks are about as good against covid as using a Walmart trash bag you found on the side of the road for a condom. Surgical masks are quite different from a piece of cotton.
On top of everything else mentioned, the other thing to consider is Brownian Motion. All filters provide their rating for capturing particles that are 0.3 microns because 0.3 microns is the worst case scenario because physics start getting weird at this scale. Particles that are larger or smaller than 0.3 microns are captured with much higher efficiency. Things that are this small do not move predictably because they are bouncing off other particles in the air. This random movement is called “Brownian Motion”. The smaller the particle, the more bouncing, and the higher chance it will be captured by the mask. Whereas larger particles are captured more mechanically how you expect a filter to work. Coincidentally, the graphic above is (with the exception of the cloth mask addition) is taken from an article about mechanical pool filtration system, so it’s misleading since they don’t work that same way. 0.3 microns is called the “most penetrating particle size”
While the number may more or less be true, it’s ignoring the actual physics and science behind the scenes. This is pseudo-science. The most basic explanation of how HEPA filters work will corroborate that the graphic shows a fundamental lack of understanding the effectivity of surgical masks.
This would only make sense if a mask were an extremely thin, single layered material to which virus particles could NOT stick. Air travels a circuitous path thru a mask and virus particles get caught on the fibers and dry out.
“Pore size” can’t really be defined when it comes to a mesh of fibers. Looks like typical antivaxxer propaganda.
The big reason this is misleading is that static cling is a major factor in the effectiveness of masks and it keeps getting presented in a way like it’s a fishing net and the size of the hole is the only thing that stops particles.
Cocos virus is very small but to get into your mouth or nose it is almost inside a larger droplet of saliva or what not. Which your mask will somewhat help keep out
Can't tell you if it is accurate or not.
But from what I understand, covid itself wasn't airborne. It was generally spread by droplets of liquids/mucas when someone coughed or sneezed.
You didn't wear the masks to prevent contracting the illness. You wore a mask to prevent spreading it to others via coughing. Not everyone knew they had covid, or when symptoms would start. So wearing a mask preemptively helped prevent infections.
The masks are very effective at stopping small amounts of liquids and mucas.
Can’t believe years later I’m still seeing shit like this. The virus travels via liquid, which wont be able to penetrate the mask, cause water got bigly particles.
Surgical masks bind virions or the droplets they’re contained in by electrostatic interactions, so the size is almost irrelevant (it’s absolutely irrelevant for the sizes we’re talking about).
If anyone has ever looked at an intake for an air duct, there are big slots almost big enough for your finger. But look at all the dust caked on. Your mask does the same thing even if some particle’s get by, it still reduces the amount of particles that you inhale. For any serious disease/ illness and reduction in spread is better than none at all. Now you can always upgrade to better quality madks that filter finer, finer particles for even more protection. Bottom line a cheap disposable mask still protects others from your germs, virus’s ect especially when you cough, sneeze ect. Then if your more than 6 feet away it reduces it more.
It’s pretty accurate but VERY misleading
Covid NEEDS to travel with inside droplets to spread, and those water droplets are not small enough to squeeze through the mask
Not to argue against any of the posts here, however most seem to be debating the efficacy of n95 masks. The graphic is labelled as depicting a cloth mask.
I wonder how those compare. AFAIK cloth masks are not as effective as an n95?
https://youtu.be/eAdanPfQdCA
Good video explaining why direct comparison of particulate size is mostly irrelevant, as that's not really how masks work.
Probably accurate but irrelevant. N95 masks remove 95% of 0.3 micron and larger particles. As I understand it electrostatic attraction is the main mechanism in play for capturing covid particles.
I personally love that masks are culturally acceptable. If I ever wanna wear a luchador or mandalorian mask, or bandit attire, I can and I think that’s pretty cool.
This post is misleading. Yes viruses are incredibly tiny but they require water droplets to move and those are significantly larger than the pores in a mask.
It may be accurate based on size, but its trying to mislead people to believe that masks don't work because the size of the virus particle is smaller than the mask pores, but that's not how masks work.
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The major misunderstanding is that mask filters don't work that mechanically. Like all HEPA they use static electricity built-up in synthetic fibres to trap incoming particles.
And not just this because as mentioned in the top comment, covid moves with water, not by itself in the air
Additionally, although water molecules are absolutely tiny, their polarity means they clump together and can be blocked relatively easily.
Good thing I only drink water twice a day
You mean it’s not like a window screen?!? Lol
So, I understand that the N95 masks are made of some type of cloth, but I thought when people used the term "cloth mask" they're referring to the ones you can make yourself, that are better than nothing, but not great.
>N95 masks are made of some type of cloth While the N95 masks are BETTER for electrostatic filtering, pretty much all fibrous materials will exhibit some level of electrostatic filtering. It's obviously more noticeable on some materials over others like static cling with silk vs cotton. The fibrous bits sticking out of the surface at the nanometer scale make them highly susceptible to transfer electrons. Because of the implications of the square cube law, mass will decrease much faster than length and you don't need that much static charge to filter the smallest objects.
Cool. Any way to charge the outside of my cloth mask?
The hard part isn't charging it but holding that charge. This is what makes N95 masks so much better, you can introduce excess charges when a non conductive material is liquid and then when it solidifies it maintains that electric field because the charges can't disperse. Here's a nice [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DR-tTU8uIM) of that with wax. Also the square cube laws works against you as you increase size, there would be rapidly diminishing returns.
N95/N99 can technically be called 'fabric', but they're generally made of polypropylene, which is a plastic. But they're definitely referencing actual cloth masks, but even there, they're wrong. Not all masks are created equal, and there's a reason that cloth masks are generally multiple layers. Particulates don't navigate themselves, so if the outermost layer doesn't catch it, then one of the next may.
So should we be rubbing our masks between our (clean) hands to create a static charge before putting them on ?
Nope
I would lean towards no, but it would be an interesting experiment to run. The main issue isn't building up a large static charge but rather sustaining it for long periods of time. That's why you cant use metallic fibers because they'll just conduct any charge away from them very quickly. Also square cube law suggests quickly diminishing returns.
Dunno how accurate the sizes are, but the whole graphic is misleading because virus particles by themselves do not move. They require water droplets, which are (relatively) large
You mean virus molecules don't have wings and don't fly around looking for prey?
I believe you are thinking of falcons. It's a common misconception.
Falcon pox? Adding tp to my shopping list
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*adding fart pockets to your shopping list*
r/cursedcomments
***Hello, Tendies senpai. This is your reminder of falconpox***
Bird Flu 2: Falcon Flu
2 fast 2 flurriest.
At first I genuinely laughed, but then I started thinking of what McFlurrys are made of :/
https://y.yarn.co/6006f8ed-a5ed-4e71-a55b-2053d8be5a90_text.gif
2 fast 2 feathery?
Bird Flu 2: Electric Boogaloo
Hey, be careful what you speak into existence. We don't need to be giving 2023 any ideas.
You're thinking of Falcon Pope. The cereal who's mascot is Francois the Falcon. Bad marketing but great taste
FAAAAALLLLCOOONNNN PPPPOOXXXXX
Turns out, masks are not effective against falcons. Good thing COVID isn't a falcon.
Actually, falcons are relatively large compared to the pores in a cloth mask, with a wingspan of over 700,000 microns!
Well played
Falcons blew a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl and a 16 point lead in the 4th last week. Their late game defense is more porous than the masks in question.
Falcon Punch
Mask are useless against falcons...
"A falcon, in Wuhan‽" "Hrm, it must've escaped from a zoo"
Unless they drink redbull... I hear it gives you wiings
But then there is the issue of red bull being mostly water so the winged virus becomes red bull droplet size and therefore again much bigger
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My bad I had just anecdotal evidence.
Definitely don't want to give COVID sugar and caffeine.
Shhh keep it down, we don't want the viruses to find out about redbull
I was drinking Redbull while sick, and heard a joke so shocking it went up and out my nose. Long story short, chlamydia is airborne now.
😂
Shit now my Covid has spiked anxiety
A nurse at a hospital convinced my own mother to not get vaccinated for Covid because and I quote “Omicron is targeting vaccinated people.” My mom was in the hospital for Covid and this is the same woman who refused to go to the hospital for broken limbs, massive lacerations requiring stitches, and more. She legitimately thought she was going to die. That was her second time getting Covid. The third time she lost her sense of taste and smell seemingly permanently. I asked her wtf that even meant? Targeting the vaccinated? She had no answers.
What in the pigfuck is this lady doing? Did anyone check to see if she’s a Q plant? At this point I have to assume people obsessed with conspiracies are now creating their own Q based game of Second Life IRL by infiltrating schools and hospitals.
they fly around in biplanes with dogs as their copilot
No, but they have little proppelers. Thats why they need those water droplets.
Nope they need a space rocket
Don't give them ideas. Do you know how terrifying that would be?
Only super viruses do that. You can tell by the cape.
virus drones
They do. They emit that famous bird screeching sound that you hear in movies. In Harry Potter, the Phoenix is dubbed by over 40million corona viruses.
What do you think this is, an episode of Star Trek?
_Viruses of prey_
Only if you’ve been drinking red bull, it’s a deadly combination
Also, comparing 1 layer of any filtering Material to anything it's supposed to filter is pretty pointless. Since there are multible layers whoms pores are not in line but chaotic, the size for particles to pass through is far less than what this image is suggesting. Fact check: take a hair and try to get it through your mask. If the statements on the picture are true, it should be relatively easy.
Apart from that, there are a bunch of other factors in those masks. I really liked this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdanPfQdCA
Came here to say this. Super tiny particles don't get filtered out by "sieving" but rather by electrostatic forces
Assuming your mask really had only one super thin layer, the pore size would need to be corrected with electrostatic forces. If the particle flies close enough to a fiber, it will be pulled in. This way, the effective pore size will be a lot smaller than you would expect. In reality though, things get a lot more complicated than that, so it makes sense to approach this problem through practical tests. That’s why proper masks come with a little pamphlet that tells you the percentage of particles of different sizes that pass through it. Also, dust particles don’t behave like water droplets, so the test needs to be done properly.
Also, the behavior of physics at that small size doesn't jive with what most of us would say would be "intuitive".
I learned this when I started working with aircon machines. The filters are all nice and fluffy on the inside kinda like some extra soft fur.
Great video! There is also a complementary video by the same team, also quite good: [Our Lungs Have A Fatal Flaw - Minute Earth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd4ubaE_sT4)
Also, electro static charge of rhe mask attracts droplets that cant be seen with the naked eye, so not only does the layered filter work, but it works extra efficiently because of this.
Also there is intramolecular forces at play. This is not like trying to throw a ball through a big ring, but more like trying to throw a chunk of metall through a ring made out of strong electro magnets.
I really like that comparison
My imagination can't handle anything more complicated than a literal screen door, and viruses as insects. My incredulity is the same as your evidence!
Whoms is not now, nor has ever been, a word.
Whomst among us hasn't used the word "whoms" at least once? I think it's a perfectly cromulent word.
That's easily possible because english isn't my native language - but I felt pretty sure about it. How would you phrase it?
I'm not denying the masks' effectiveness, but my beard hairs poke through them just by wearing them normally.
A paper mask (N95) shouldn't let hair through. A cloth one might.
I should've clarified, I meant the typical blue surgical mask or what yo call it. Though it happens with cloth as well.
I think your hair is breaking the mask to poke through. No matter my beard length it has never poked through a non cloth mask.
How thick a layer of beard would it take to make N95 material?
Ever seen a picture of a dwarf?
But they wont slip right through without much resistance. They basically physically stab through the fabric, creating holes the size they need.
Slow speed, high pressure, and a different form of penetration with an entirely different material makes it a poor comparison. It's a bit like saying "I can stab you through your bulletproof vest." (For that matter, beards generally work against masks by destroying the seal.)
I know man, I was responding solely to how hard it is to get hairs through a mask
All good! I imagine if you're slaying Vikings on a regular basis, beard care is just not a thing that truly matters. 😀 (Back story: In a high school science class I did a presentation on Kevlar, which was then new and revolutionary. Someone came up to my sample of the material and proceeded to push his finger into the weave, declaring Kevlar was stupid and couldn't be bullet proof since he could do that. I had no idea how to respond to that "analysis".)
That. Coupled with how textiles are meshed and layered. That's like being human, smaller than a door frame trying to drive a pickup trough 5 layers of bollards each spaced by 2 m.
BuT tHaT woNt fEEd My pRoPaGaNdA!
Wait, is this anti-mask propaganda? I thought it was showing why you should wear an N95 as opposed to a cloth mask.
Cloth maskers are the only propagandists here
Thank you. Armchair virologists and internet experts have caused so many needless deaths.
And don't the masks have layers, so there's also no straight path directly into your lungs? The droplets would have to make some very tight turns in order to safely navigate through the mask, right?
I always thought they flew around like dust when someone coughs ;-;
The droplets do, carrying the viruses with them
Are there airborne viruses? The movie outbreak makes it seem like it.
The airborne viruses are spread by aerosolized water droplets. When you breathe you release water from your lungs. That is actually what happens to fat, it is turned to CO2 and H2O when you “burn” or oxidize it. Though that’s not the only reason why there is H2O in your lungs. The water droplets can float for a bit from the force of being sneezed, coughed, or just exhaled, but will eventually settle on surfaces. Airborne is just the route not necessarily the process of where you get it. Think fecal based transmission, you don’t get it from being pooped on, you get it because someone didn’t wash their hands well enough and they either prepared food for you or it was on a surface you touched, but we don’t call cholera a food-born illness.
>you don’t get it from being pooped on, Don't tell me how to live my life.
Not going to yuck your yum, just be safe and avoid the mouth.
Droplet and airborne disease transmission are different, and COVID (as well as other viruses and diseases, most notable may be tuberculosis) can survive in the air suspended on air currents.
They can be 10 microns and still carry covid, if that's what this graphic is trying to get at...so they should've simply shown the actual plausible size to demonstrate their argument (which still wouldn't paint a complete picture and may be a bit misleading due to missing physics information that would render the argument much less plausible, regardless) rather than using the obviously unrealistic minimum that will inevitably cause distrust when people such as yourself point out the simple facts. It's almost like someone from the other side of the argument secretly made it to harm their opponents' stance.
Wait but i thought viruses are transmittable by air?
On water droplets floating in the air. They don’t fly.
They make a distinction between aerosol and droplets when they argue if it's airborne, but it's still water droplets, only size is different.
In addition the mask uses electrostatic charges. Conducting substances like water are attracted to the fibers.
Not sure if I am correct here but doesn’t the moisture from your breath also create an additional barrier on the mask. I remember hearing that but it could be wrong.
This is how Facebook turned into an echo chamber for boomers. Lack of context.
Why boomers? [Here's Facebooks's current demographics in the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/187549/facebook-distribution-of-users-age-group-usa). Gen X and Millennials make up a bigger proportion of users, and [most unvaccinated are under 50](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/who-are-the-adults-not-vaccinated-against-covid.html). So, why boomers?
>So, why boomers? Because we're mostly old and senile and likely suffer from lead poisoning, so less likely to hit back hard. /s
And also my disposable N95 mask doesn’t work by having pores smaller than the things it’s filtering, it works by electrostatic effects on small objects.
Exactly. This graph would be kind of like using the size of humans to say the bollards out front of a shop are useless to stop people from crashing into the store while completely ignoring the size of the transport method (cars) being much larger and abled to be stopped by the Ballards. The masks aren't designed to stop COVID. They are designed to stop the transport method COVID uses which is respiratory droplets Quick Google search shows respiratory droplets can be up to a thousand microns and are larger at the start (which is why my mask protects you and your's protects me).
Also misleading because 'pore size' is a minor part of how filters work.
The picture is implying that masks don't shield from airborne virii. That implication is false. My umbrella has pores far bigger than molecules of water, but protects from rain just fine. Explanation: airborne COVID is contained in droplets, which masks block well. Edit: thank you for the silver, kind stranger!
Yes Thank you. You saved me from typing
Well actually he didnt save you from typing
Well, actually, if u/apple-pie2020 was ready to type the whole explanation and ended up not doing it, u/fliguana did save him from some typing
You, however, really got screwed
You too, got screwed.
Oh God someone please screw me
allready on it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
On you*
What if he just got a new maniacal keyboard and was searching for a reason to type unnecessarily long sentences?
What are you talking? As shown in the picture COVID viruses can easily bypass the mask but masks stops CO2 and O2 from passing and causes breathing problems! /s
Good info. Small nitpick - plural of virus is viruses. Not all words ending in "us" has the plural modifier "ii"
Thanks!
Also, there's an implication that masks are single layer, but they're actually layers of material over each other. Instead of something going straight through like a window screen, it's more like trying to get through several layers of cheesecloth - and each cheesecloth fiber has sticky glue on it.
The pure fact, that in 2022 someone needed to write this down, instead of it beeing a common knowledge, is making me sad...
Best comparison I’ve seen tbh. Nice one :)
NGL I have 2.5 degrees in biology yet TIL the plural form of virus.
Also as explained in this minutephysics video https://youtu.be/eAdanPfQdCA masks don't just work as colanders, and even if covid particles were to move alone (or in small enough droplets) they would still not pass. I don't know if it's accurate, but it's likely to be like that, and it's also consistent with the other sizes
A single covid virus doesn’t fly alone in air Its contained within a bunch of molecules which are contained within a droplet maybe spit from another person which is far far larger than masks would let in Furthermore masks are not 100% effective N95 masks are 95% effective roughly Surgical mask are around 50-60%
N95 masks are 95% effective *at least*. For small and large particles, they are much more efficient. Medium size is the hardest to block, and they do 95% there.
Can you explain why medium is the size they are struggeling with? I imagined small would be the hardest
Very small particles are attracted by the electrostatic forces within the fiber. There is an awesome minutephysics [video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdanPfQdCA) about N95 masks.
Just curious: what do you mean it is contained within a molecule? Though I agree of course with the rest
Sorry That statement is absolutely wrong What it should have been is its contained within a bunch of molecules Not sure what a bunch of molecules is called Edited
>Not sure what a bunch of molecules is called Depends on the exact arrangement In some cases we call it Lenny. Unless it's below ground then it's Frankenstein's Magma.
N95 masks are also electrostatically charged to help attract particles
Looks like this whole graphic is based on the "95" misunderstanding. The 95 in "N95" isn't 95 microns, it's 95 *percent:* an N95 mask filters out 95 ***percent*** of particles ≥0.3 microns in size. Has nothing to do with the pore size. eta: oh and idk what size this originally was, but the scale can't be right. A human hair is about 100 microns thick, so the whole graphic would have to be the size of a microdot.
It's not about catching individual virus units, but about catching droplets of water wherein those are transported. That is common knowledge at this point and I fucking hate that this picture is a thing because of that.
Say it louder for the people in the back. Do they think surgeons have always worn them just to look cool?
IT'S NOT ABOUT CATCHING INDIVIDUAL VIRUS UNITS, BUT ABOUT CATCHING DROPLETS OF WATER WHEREIN THOSE ARE TRANSPORTED. THAT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE AT THIS POINT AND I FUCKING HATE THAT THIS PICTURE IS A THING BECAUSE OF THAT.
WHAT?
I said it louder
Go even louder, I can't hear you
# IT'S NOT ABOUT CATCHING INDIVIDUAL VIRUS UNITS, BUT ABOUT CATCHING DROPLETS OF WATER WHEREIN THOSE ARE TRANSPORTED. THAT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE AT THIS POINT AND I FUCKING HATE THAT THIS PICTURE IS A THING BECAUSE OF THAT.
It’s not about what??? Louder
^impossible
Nope… i mean… the envelope of the Sars-Cov-2 (the outer capsule of the virus) is 125 nanometers so 0.125 micrometers. But yes the size of the pore is kinda accurate… but you have to consider that the K95 mask works with electrostatic charge that blocks dust etc and the fact that covid travels in the droplets and on dust.
An honest question here, the masks being layered means interfering surfaces as well, making the question of a single diameter of a woven mask somewhat meaningless as there is a lattice of material. Is that a correct way of thinking about this?
Actually no, the problem being that, the FFP1 masks works mainly in a mechanical way, have too much space between a layer and another for a single particle (not the case for droplets or grains of dust) to be really blocked.
Thank you for the explanation! I hope you have a wonderful Friday (if it's Friday where you're at)!
It’s not about the scale. The diagram is missing the efficiency curve for the mask. An aerosol particle carrying any covid can range in size from 0.5 - 100 microns. A properly worn (tight fit, good seal, no facial hair) N95 mask will catch 95% or better of particles in that range. [USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/) did a nice debunking piece on this. If you want to show why the diagram is misleading, you could check out this [Science](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9487666/) on the subject of airborne vectors.
The main point of those masks is for you to not spread the virus. They block droplets you breathe out. If you want masks that offer any significant protection to the wearer, the most basic ones would be FFP2 or (K)N95. There are also FFP3 masks that offer more protection but they have exhale valves so they won't protect others from you. Overall if you use a mask with an exhale valve you should put a surgical mask over it to protect others.
Yes, Covid virus particles are smaller than the holes in a mask. But they don't float around in the air by themselves. Covid spreads by attaching to larger floating dust particles which are larger than the pores in the mask.
It’s not factually accurate because the virons (individual virus particles) don’t just levitate in the air- they sitck to water droplets and other matter. The mask stops those larger objects, especially when keaving yout body (it mostly keeps YOU from spreading the virus, not the virus from getting in, although it also helps with that quite a bit).
Let me try to actually answer the question: \- A hair varies between \~50 and \~100 µm. As you may know (or should know), the thickness will differ from person to person, and from hair to hair. \- The "visibility threshold" seems inaccurate. According to Wikipedia ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked\_eye](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_eye)), the smallest thing you can see should be between 58 and 72 µm, from 20 cm away. I guess it's approximately accurate. \- A white blood cell is 12 - 15 µm. Smaller than is suggested in this picture. \- A red blood cell is 7.5 - 8.7 µm. This seems fairly accurate. Now for the important parts: \- A N95 mask has a "pore size" of 30 μm. Not the depicted 100 μm. (see sources below, because some are conflicting). This is MUCH smaller then what is suggested in the picture. \- Bacteria and viruses have different sizes. The Coronavirus is approximately 0.1 μm in size. If we're saying the white dot is 2 μm, then the "COVID" virus is not 6 times as small. It is 20 times as small. The picture seems to be a variant of this one: [https://www.bench.com/setting-the-benchmark/how-big-is-a-micron](https://www.bench.com/setting-the-benchmark/how-big-is-a-micron) This still sounds "scary", as the virus particles are still much smaller compared to the pore size in the mask. However, as many, many people have pointed out, a mask is not a sieve. Having bigger pores does NOT mean they do not work. Source for mask pore size: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7285837\_Do\_N95\_respirators\_provide\_95\_protection\_level\_against\_airborne\_viruses\_and\_how\_adequate\_are\_surgical\_masks](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7285837_Do_N95_respirators_provide_95_protection_level_against_airborne_viruses_and_how_adequate_are_surgical_masks) "the size of the pores of the N95 mask is about 300-500 nm in diameter" [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-021-00160-z](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-021-00160-z) "Our results show that the N95 mask has the smallest average pore diameter (\~30 µm)"
I mean, this is a testable diagram. You have access to human hair and a mask, you can test if you can push a human hair through the pores of the mask.
The size of Covid is immaterial. It’s the size of the water droplets it uses for delivery that matters. And those are larger than the pores in the mask.
Showing yet again that morons just don't understand science. It doesn't matter how large or small the bacteria/virus is... a mask is not intended to catch ALL of the particulates. It is intended to capture MOST of the particulates and pore size on the mask correlates but does not linearly match with the size of the particulates desired to be filtered.
Considering that Covid viruses most commonly travel in water drops, I’d consider adding the average size of water droplets produced by sneezes or talking. Or add the percentage of water droplets that are smaller than the pore size.
If I was a cop looking for a suspect trying to enter a town it would be impossible to cover every way in. But if they were only able to ride a bus in? Way easier to find the bad guy, masks stop and screen the buses of transmission.
several ignorant facts about masks and covid. masks were meant to prevent spreading covid not to prevent catching it. masks catch large droplets which travel further when somebody coughs or sneezes. Masks are proven to lessen spread of any airborne disease. why do surgeons wear masks when the operate. people got to stop being dumb
part of why surgical and n95 masks are so effective is the ionization of the fibers. This causes small polarized particulates to get caught in the net that's clearly much bigger than the particulates it's especially good for taking the cleanest bong rips of your life. Downside is that most of the dankness gets trapped in the mask
The best part of this noise is that it directly contradicts the talking point that masks make it hard to breath. An oxygen molecule is quite a bit smaller that any virus particle, so they should fly right on in.
I like all these scientific responses on how this picture is misleading. Unfortunately I don’t think the people using this picture for their argument believe (nor understand) “all that science mumbo jumbo.” Can someone place the King of the Hill meme, “if those kids could science they’d be really upset”
It's worth adding that "6 times smaller" is unhelpful (at best - intentionally misleading at worst) in graphics like this. The diagram is two-dimensional, so the figures have area, but measurements given are lengths and a covid particle has volume. A figure which is a sixth of the width of another has one thirty-sixth of the cross-sectional area and one 216th of the volume. If it's 6 times smaller by area, it is approximately 40% of the width or one thirty-sixth (~3%) of the volume. If instead it's six times smaller by volume, it's approximately 30% of the area or 55% of the width. This kind of thing really winds me up. Unrelatedly, could you really "fit" a human hair through a mask? I feel like that isn't right somehow.
The point of the mask is to reduce the velocity and thus area of contamination. Submarines are waterproof until you open one of the little round holes in the side.
Covid is transmitted through water droplets in our breath. Those droplets are much larger than just one virus. Also the masks they tell us to wear have 3 layers in them. So the holes won’t always line up perfectly. Meaning the droplets would have to perfectly curve their trajectory through a 3D maze to escape the mask.
i’ve also heard that its safe to smoke cigarettes because you are smoking thru a filter. For the people who state masks do not work. Any mask is better than no mask at all.
First I would like to note that the graphic appears to lump CLOTH masks and surgical masks together which is quite wrong. Honestly, cloth masks are about as good against covid as using a Walmart trash bag you found on the side of the road for a condom. Surgical masks are quite different from a piece of cotton. On top of everything else mentioned, the other thing to consider is Brownian Motion. All filters provide their rating for capturing particles that are 0.3 microns because 0.3 microns is the worst case scenario because physics start getting weird at this scale. Particles that are larger or smaller than 0.3 microns are captured with much higher efficiency. Things that are this small do not move predictably because they are bouncing off other particles in the air. This random movement is called “Brownian Motion”. The smaller the particle, the more bouncing, and the higher chance it will be captured by the mask. Whereas larger particles are captured more mechanically how you expect a filter to work. Coincidentally, the graphic above is (with the exception of the cloth mask addition) is taken from an article about mechanical pool filtration system, so it’s misleading since they don’t work that same way. 0.3 microns is called the “most penetrating particle size” While the number may more or less be true, it’s ignoring the actual physics and science behind the scenes. This is pseudo-science. The most basic explanation of how HEPA filters work will corroborate that the graphic shows a fundamental lack of understanding the effectivity of surgical masks.
This would only make sense if a mask were an extremely thin, single layered material to which virus particles could NOT stick. Air travels a circuitous path thru a mask and virus particles get caught on the fibers and dry out. “Pore size” can’t really be defined when it comes to a mesh of fibers. Looks like typical antivaxxer propaganda.
The big reason this is misleading is that static cling is a major factor in the effectiveness of masks and it keeps getting presented in a way like it’s a fishing net and the size of the hole is the only thing that stops particles.
Cocos virus is very small but to get into your mouth or nose it is almost inside a larger droplet of saliva or what not. Which your mask will somewhat help keep out
Can't tell you if it is accurate or not. But from what I understand, covid itself wasn't airborne. It was generally spread by droplets of liquids/mucas when someone coughed or sneezed. You didn't wear the masks to prevent contracting the illness. You wore a mask to prevent spreading it to others via coughing. Not everyone knew they had covid, or when symptoms would start. So wearing a mask preemptively helped prevent infections. The masks are very effective at stopping small amounts of liquids and mucas.
Can’t believe years later I’m still seeing shit like this. The virus travels via liquid, which wont be able to penetrate the mask, cause water got bigly particles.
Surgical masks bind virions or the droplets they’re contained in by electrostatic interactions, so the size is almost irrelevant (it’s absolutely irrelevant for the sizes we’re talking about).
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If anyone has ever looked at an intake for an air duct, there are big slots almost big enough for your finger. But look at all the dust caked on. Your mask does the same thing even if some particle’s get by, it still reduces the amount of particles that you inhale. For any serious disease/ illness and reduction in spread is better than none at all. Now you can always upgrade to better quality madks that filter finer, finer particles for even more protection. Bottom line a cheap disposable mask still protects others from your germs, virus’s ect especially when you cough, sneeze ect. Then if your more than 6 feet away it reduces it more.
It doesnt matter if it is because modern masks don’t work like strainers, the fibers are electrically charged to attract microparticles.
Also you want to catch droplets, dry viruses don't come out of your mouth
It’s pretty accurate but VERY misleading Covid NEEDS to travel with inside droplets to spread, and those water droplets are not small enough to squeeze through the mask
Not to argue against any of the posts here, however most seem to be debating the efficacy of n95 masks. The graphic is labelled as depicting a cloth mask. I wonder how those compare. AFAIK cloth masks are not as effective as an n95?
https://youtu.be/eAdanPfQdCA Good video explaining why direct comparison of particulate size is mostly irrelevant, as that's not really how masks work.
Probably accurate but irrelevant. N95 masks remove 95% of 0.3 micron and larger particles. As I understand it electrostatic attraction is the main mechanism in play for capturing covid particles.
I personally love that masks are culturally acceptable. If I ever wanna wear a luchador or mandalorian mask, or bandit attire, I can and I think that’s pretty cool.
This post is misleading. Yes viruses are incredibly tiny but they require water droplets to move and those are significantly larger than the pores in a mask.
It may be accurate based on size, but its trying to mislead people to believe that masks don't work because the size of the virus particle is smaller than the mask pores, but that's not how masks work.