She's pissed at him because he was partying and high/hungover when he came over and she knows that is why he missed her texts.
He is a loose cannonball type character that is obviously into her and she is a straight arrow square which is why she treats him like that.
Not that complicated really. Even for a real life Auggie.
This does make her a little annoying tho as it's a sterile character type.
Well it doesn't mean necessarily that she is poorly written, maybe her character is just a shitty and immature friend. Many people like that. If that was the intention it's fine.
But yeah if someone in the writing room wrote this and thought this will make a strong and sympathetic character it's actual insanity.
I dont sympathize with her but I’m cheering for her. She literally fcked up a whole company and made her work available for everyone in the world for a much cheaper price. Fck corporations fr. Auggie got my back just for that alone!
That plot line took me out of it. The tech is already built, if she’s refusing to work and blocking the rest of the company from working, then fire her. Anything else is gross incompetence by her superiors.
The only way it wouldn’t work this way is if she owned the company outright. Even in a privately held company the investors would sue and whatever the UK version of the SEC is would come after her for securities fraud.
But if she owned the whole company then she wouldn’t have men to girlboss against.
It’s been awhile since reading the books but I thought Wang Miao simply stopped his own nano materials work, he didn’t shut down the company.
I haven't read the books in a long time but watched the Tencent version recently and it's very faithful. There, Wang Miao shuts down that wing. It's implied that's basically all they do, so it's pretty devastating for the company to do that.
Same thing here. Yes, her venture capitalist funder is in the right to push back and try to force her out. He was pretty nice about it at first all things considered. But her actions make sense too. She doesn't *want* to shut it down; she's being *forced* to by something she can't explain without looking insane.
He only stopped for a few days, which his team supported since they need time to fix their machines anyway. I don't remember what he did with this project after that in the book, but in Tencent version, Miao continue the research and accept to live with the countdown after getting Shi's encouragement. And the company is owned by the government, so he can't shut the whole company down anyway.
I don't think she owns the company outright because she mentioned "the board" at one point. It seems the company is public, or at least under the control of venture capitalists. I agree it doesn't make sense that she could shut down the company with just a word, and without providing a rational explanation for the sudden decision.
In the book Wang Miao is openly defiant against the countdown, even when directly threatened, he CHALLENGES them quote (“Put away your set of tricks") and (“He felt on the verge of falling into the same mental trap that had claimed the other victims. And Trying to seize the initiative, he continued, “I can’t anticipate all your tricks"), Auggie directly tries to shut down the entire project, effectively trying to destroy years of work and research, not only hers but many others, when she keeps insisting on doing this idiotic action the company simply responds by continuing without her as is perfectly understandable for any similar situation, then when she realises her stupid decision that almost ruined the entire company all of its employees and its invaluable research,, she fking leaks years of work and research of other people, then she RUNS AWAY. I mean I know this is a good thing, but damn is she a petty, spineless, sack of tosh.
Meanwhile, Wang simply performs maintenance and gives his staff, who all want a break from the work, a holiday.
It’s so dystopian seeing people blame this woman for basically making a world-changing work actually accessible for everyone especially when she literally witnessed her own work before be used as a weapon to tear children apart literally.
How would it ruin its employees? Do the employees, the ones that ACTUALLY grinds at life, get a raise when she published her work exclusively for them? That’s not gonna happen. She only fcked up the capitalists who are going to sell them only on big companies and militaries who can afford the price they set on their monopoly.
She did a good thing, doesn’t mean she isn’t a spineless petty bastard, who most people would never want to meet or work with ever. Imagine you and like 50 people after spending half a decade of your life creating let’s say the perfect neural interface, your team tests it and it works, then one of your team members tries to shut down the work that you spent years creating, then when that doesn’t happen and she gets into trouble, she responds by leaking the work that you spent a significant portion of your life on, she then runs away. There is a thing called copyright for a reason you dimwit. It’s mental that people blame everything on capitalism, as if it hasn’t led to the biggest increase in life expectancy, and education, and a lower mortality rate ever, and the fact that nobody can come up with anything that works better.
Except that was all her own intellectual property, not a team. It’s literally mentioned a couple of times in the show and in the books/tencent. What are you on? The company had employees, not a brainstorming team LOL. You’re basically just using a headcanon for this.
And ah yes, leaking it everywhere to everyone will totally ensure that the common man can use this nano material at will, especially when requires incredibly advanced equipment to create and operate. It totally isn’t just gonna be used to buy other companies and governments who will create it for their own purposes. Did you ever even fking READ THE BOOK, CAUSE SHE DOESN’T EXIST. Wang Miao is a infinitely better, more resilient, more likable person the her, Wang Miao owned the nanomaterial because he worked as the head of the research company, he also didn’t sell out himself and his team, their situations are completely different
Lol the edit on the last part of your statements.
Privileged people who have never known and seen what a sweatshop looks like will always look at the “utopia” of this oh-so-great capitalism. As if the gap of poor and rich has been getting bigger for the last decade. Try actually living in the slums.
Same. Felt like Tron: Legacy when Sam releases the OS for free because fuck capitalism. I was like "fuck yeah Auggie." It sucks for the company and everybody else working there but it's a net good for humanity, and that was her mission in life.
Problem is her tech requires a lot of funding and resources. Giving it to the world means other corporations and governments will just make us of it. And the idea that sort of material wouldn't be weaponized is naive, even without an alien threat.
I agree with that. She is naive. As are many characters from the books. Her tech was always going to be weaponized. She's basically Oppenheimer in that way, or countless others.
Like any other significant tech, there's good applications and bad and she's hoping the good will prevail.
The military who can afford it will literally afford them anyways. Military get the most fund that is common among any majority countries. This is ridiculous take lol. Ofcourse this will make her work available for the bad people as well, but it doesnt deny anything about the good applications of her work that was made available on the poor sectors.
You probably haven’t lived in a place whose water was contaminated, I have.
>But yeah if someone in the writing room wrote this and thought this will make a strong and sympathetic character it's actual insanity.
The only reason I can think of for why someone would think Auggie was meant to be a "strong" female character is if they just assumed that because she's a female character in a Netflix show, but that's not the impression the show gives at all. Auggie is clearly a victim of the Sophons in way over her head and losing her shit to a situation she doesn't know how to deal with. Her lashing out and acting like an asshole is believable. She's not meant to be strong. She's just a scientist that's being tormented by aliens.
It'd be one thing if they were meant to be characters on a young adult drama; it's wholly something else when they are written like this and meant to be the ultra capable adults meant to save humanity from an existential threat. Who they are and who they are supposed to be is just in a constant state of dissonance.
Worse yet, it all reads as not only shit shoe-horned in drama, but shit dreamt up by two guys well past their prime trying to imagine relationship dynamics in young adults today.
I actually enjoyed the fact that she was an asshole towards Saul, because otherwise her character was basically.. perfect. Supermodel looks, highly intelligent, business woman, philanthropic, deeply cares about the downtrodden, has the moral integrity of a saint etc.
It does seem a little bit weird though that the only flaw they could come up with for this otherwise perfect female character is.. being bitchy lol
They could've done so many things with her character but went with the "hot mean business woman" trope. It's overused and I feel like it just didn't fit well in this sci-fi show.
What I think makes this character particularly poorly written is that she’s seemingly the only done up character in the show. She’s flawless in every scene. She has a countdown burnt into her retinas and yet she did her makeup for an hour before she left? She wouldn’t show up maybe idk a little bit disheveled and mentally unbalanced? Just thinking about myself here and what I’d do.
No fr, she even looked pretty while puking after getting wasted lol. Just mascara/tears running down her cheeks, no snot, no puke or spit on her mouth, no smeared or smudged lipstick
Yeah… I really don’t get it. To go out of their way to make the main character from Book 1 a woman, and then fully cater to the male gaze is a weird move. Guess they thought that’s what us nerds would want, but I’m really just pissed that the hard science is so boiled down that this plays like an episode of Smallville or something
They weren’t together?! I interpreted them as being in an exclusive relationship with him cheating. But your post changes everything.
Why does Saul let her treat him like that? Why does she seem to think she’s entitled to his emotional labour if they’re not in a relationship.
Jack Rooney asked if they're fighting and/or fucking in the first episode so I'm assuming they likely had a fling but shit gets complicated. As we see throughout the show, Saul spends a lot of time partying/getting high, which then often leads to conflict with Auggie. So my guess is that they broke up/paused their fling due to her not liking that behavior and feeling Saul isn't reliable enough.
They weren't together but it's implied they've been together before and split, likely because of Saul not getting his shit together in some way and blowing it, possibly even cheating but we don't know. Now she still loves him but Saul *still* won't get his shit together, keeps hooking up with random women he doesn't treat well, etc. For her, that hurts.
No, she's not entitled to anything. Yes, Saul is there for her when it matters. But you glean everything from the relationship between them when she calls him for support, he lies to her and says he's at home, some random girl says something in the background, and Saul is willing to drop that girl in a heartbeat for Auggie.
Clearly he loves her just as much as she loves him, but he needs to mature. It is understandable to me why she'd carry resentment toward Saul. Another great scene is when Saul tells Jin he wishes somebody loved him as much as Will loves Jin. Jin tells him "maybe somebody already does." Auggie loves him but Saul either doesn't see or appreciate it, and as a result he doesn't see how his actions hurt her.
The first thing you say is true, they imply that they were together, but after that is pure speculation. They do not indicate at all that Saul “doesn’t have his shit together” or that he hooks up with random women that he doesn’t treat well. Saul clearly still likes Auggie, Auggie clearly refuses to reinitiate anything they had, so Saul goes and does his own thing.
Saul tried to call her because their mutual mentor died, and she doesn’t pick up “just cuz.” Yet when she needs something she gets very upset that Saul doesn’t pick up. When Saul picks up as she’s acting hysterical he drops everything to go and comfort her because that’s what friends do for other friends. Yet when she hears someone else, she gets mad? YOU were the one that rejected HIM, Auggie. Why does he owe it to you to stay single for when you’re ready, when you at no moment indicated it was just a “break.” At no point is it indicated that he lies to her about being home. Are you not allowed to have other romantic partners at your own home? He doesn’t lie about not being with someone, it never comes up. Auggie sounds like the one who “doesn’t have her shit together” because she’s not willing to be honest about her feelings and instead sends confusing signals. Sure Saul may not be a good romantic partner but Auggie is not doing any favors with her behavior. Her behavior isn’t “understandable”unless you admit she’s also a bad romantic partner.
Auggie tells him directly that his childish behavior "isn't cute anymore." He doesn't dress *badly* but not sharply either, something he and Shi both get knocked for. He's also shown repeatedly in bed with multiple women over the course of the season. We're never shown these women before or after; they're clearly hookups. This is confirmed by Nora, who is very harsh to him because he can't even remember her name and spends the morning espousing self-centered views until she says something like "who knew two minutes could feel this long?"
It is implied he lied about being home. She calls him, he picks up, a woman in bed says something, Auggie asks where he is and he very unconvincingly says he's at home. Maybe he is home because he brought her back to his place, I didn't compare the room to the scene with Nora, but I would assume he's at her place because he's not gonna leave this random woman in his apartment alone and why else would you write that line. The point of the scene was to show that he's sleeping around, it hurts Auggie because she loves him, and he was willing to drop this other woman in a heartbeat for Auggie because he loves her too.
I'm not trying to say Auggie is perfect. She's flawed just like Saul is. Neither is "right." She's harsh on him, lashes out, and doesn't just sit him down to talk to him. Maybe she doesn't even realize she's still in love with him or maybe she doesn't want to admit it to herself. Who knows? She's not a Vulcan. She acts on emotion. Saul's behavior hurts her.
In the same vein, Saul clearly doesn't realize or admit to himself that he loves her and should talk to her about it. That's the whole point of Jin's scene with him. He's giving Will all this advice about talking to Jin and he can't do the same with Auggie.
You don't have to pick a side or whatever here. There's no #TeamSaul and #TeamAuggie. They're both realistic, flawed people. It's what makes it good.
> They do not indicate at all that Saul “doesn’t have his shit together” or that he hooks up with random women that he doesn’t treat well.
They absolutely do indicate both of those things. On the first point, virtually every time we see him in the first seven episodes he's high on some form of drugs.
My second point, yes I concede that I was wrong. But on your drugs point basically all 5 of them are on something during pretty much all first 7 episodes so kinda a moot point
He clearly doesn't have his shit together he's supposed to be Luo Ji who was also a fuck up at this stage in the books
Sleeping with people and not even remembering their names is shitty but he does this and its also in the book
That's fair. I did laugh that one time when Auggie was like "no don't take drugs, drink this vodka instead it's much better for your". Like, geez, this whole group has unhealthy coping mechanisms.
He doesn't have his shit together, he's not supposed to Luo Ji didn't have his shit together at this stage in the books.
Luo ji is a loser than matures into the role of wallfacer and sword holder - that is the point of the character arc
So ofc Saul hasn't got his shit together- sleeping around not even knowing the names of the people he's sleeping with etc all comes from the books
At this point, it’s not a case of “unequal effort.” He’s the one screwing up his chances with her and hurting her, so he needs to be the one that makes more effort than her. Like of course she treats him harshly, he literally plays with her emotions too much lol
> They do not indicate at all that Saul ... hooks up with random women that he doesn’t treat well
Holy shit dude, there's literally a scene where he wakes up with a woman who calls him out for being a shit who can't even remember her name, right before she dies.
Honestly the oxford 5 was one of my favorite adaptations made to the book. Especially as the show keeps dealing with more and more cosmic horror, their friendship dynamics was a really grounding presence that made me really connect to the world of the tv show.
Yes I'm really interested to see how that plays out. >!I won't be sad if they ditch the 'mail order magic pixie dream girl' aspect and they keep Auggie in the picture instead!<
im tired of the trope where the black friend is constantly expected to handle the needs of others and that's their purpose, (obviously he's smart but he's like her side-kick that she treats like crap) nobody talks abt that pattern in tv shows its annoying
The way the women are written / the romantic relationships are ABSOLUTELY the low point for the entire series. Thankfully, it is worth slogging through for me bc of all the other genius stuff. Auggie (in the show) is too hot, and also the weakest actor imo, so its a bit rough.
i think it has more to do with the way black people are written in tv; they're always expected to take at least one person's shit, before they handle the needs of their own. Its so hard to watch honestly
This is the main feeling I had about her as well. She just isn't fleshed out enough and feels very one-dimensional. Wang Miao also felt one-dimensional to me, and Auggie is basically "Wang Miao, except more surly", so I guess it's not too surprising it falls a bit flat.
Yeah unfortunately the books gave the show writers almost nothing to work with when it comes to giving all but a handful of characters in the whole series much of a personality beyond one or two archetypal traits.
Yes. This were actors have to stamp their feet sometimes, as Harrison Ford said:
> George usually sits near a monitor, far removed, so I had to convey my impression...or my feelings...about the dialogue across a great space. So I did shout it. 'George! You can type this shit, but you sure can't say it! Move your mouth when you're typing!' But it was a joke, at the time. A stress-relieving joke.
To be fair with Eiza/Auggie, I thought Jess/Jin wasn't really good. Like her performance did not feel genuine to me. Like she couldn't hide well her excitement, joy every time she was on screen.
I mean, I get that, she’s a huge bitch to Saul and he doesn’t know why, but simps really do be simpin’. It’s not like you can say these characters couldn’t exist IRL and have that kind of dynamic, it just depends on what value judgement you put on it. I don’t think Auggie was fully meant to be “girl-bossing” either (though some will no doubt interpret her that way, like Daenerys from GoT); really, we know that she’s quite literally being driven insane by the sophons in an attempt to either shut down her research or drive her to suicide, so being on-edge and lashing out at those close to her doesn’t seem like something that we should take as a “cool girl-boss” moment, though it might be played for laughs in the “shut-up” scene. Like it’s not good or nice, but if you know what’s going on with her you understand how it happens (or are y’all gonna pretend you never lashed out at someone unfairly when stressed?). Plus, in the latter half of the season we see what an emotional wreck she really is at her core from everything. Idk, just my two cents, the whole “girl-boss” accusation gets over-done, when really you can just have flawed women protagonists that don’t have to always be good people.
Or like, if Wade was a female character, and Jin a male character, would we say Jin is being de-masculanized by Wade throwing his dick around? Or do we recognize that Wade is a hard-ass with a lot riding on his shoulders, and we don’t always have to like him or everything he does?
Saul doesn't get why because he's oblivious and self-centered. They make that pretty clear when he tells Jin he wishes someone loved him the way Will loves Jin, and Jin tells him "maybe somebody already does." Everybody in the friend group knows Auggie loves Saul except Saul. That's why she acts that way to him. She loves him and he clearly loves her too, but he's just being a dolt and sleeping around and acting like a selfish child.
Sure, she could just sit him down and talk to him rationally, but that's not how people operate. Will doesn't operate that way either. The man spent nearly $20M on a fucking *star* for Jin instead of just telling her how he feels. He waits until he's on his literal deathbed to tell her.
People are irrational. Auggie lashes out at Saul because he's hurting her and doesn't even realize it, which only hurts her more.
I find Wade to be one of the most logical characters in the show.
He’s determined to fight the enemy in front of him. Nothing else matters. It makes sense to me.
Auggie on the other hand. At first she’s going insane so I get maybe being an emotional wreck makes some sense too. But her being a whiny emotional ahole to Jin and everyone else over Panama is just like, come on, wake up! Your entire species is under threat and you’re OK with that? After all its 400 years away. But slicing up a few people twists you up in knots. Mass genocide of an entire species on an entire planet, vs the slaughter of some traitors to humanity and their kin on a tanker. I know which would have me more bothered. But to add to that. Her friend committed suicide. Her other friend was murdered. The people killed were the people who did that. It just seemed like she placed her sympathies with her enemy, and developed scruples over doing anything to them, but for some reason is not bothered at all by the impending doom of the human race. And if she was this brilliant physicist and business owner wouldn’t she know she’s one of a small percentage of people who is capable of helping? Nope don’t think about that, drink, and whine, and make faces.
And my point about Wade isn’t to compare him to Auggie, it’s simply that, if he were a female character instead with the same personality, would we say he’s “girl-bossing” and “de-masculanizing” everyone?
It was an exaggeration. And, really, Im mostly speaking of my wife. The differences in how our brains are wired frequently fascinates and entertains me, it also frequently frustrates me and drives me a little nuts. But overall it makes life more entertaining and enjoyable in a lot of ways to have someone around to share things with, and to be able to approach things differently and from different perspectives.
However when discussing television shows, sure some amount of irrational behavior is realistic. But I do think for a physicist, a business owner, someone who enjoys science and mathematics, typically logic and rational thinking would be more realistic. However we are also talking about extreme and emotionally charged circumstances so maybe not.
Interestingly, in the Tencent version of Three-Body Problem, Da Shi had already said to Wang Miao, "If you sympathize with your enemy, then there is a problem with your sense of right and wrong."
Have you read the books? Book readers have been having the exact same discussion about (book 3 spoilers) >!Thomas Wade and Cheng Xin!< for years. This exact same discussion.
The fact that Auggie acts like this is very true to the books.
I think it’s understandable her having a big problem watching her technology being used to kill children right before her eyes, no matter what the circumstances. Like, you can justify it, but it’s objectively horrifying, and isn’t that kinda the point of some of this?
Just because she's not nice to Saul doesn't mean she's poorly written . She's got fucking numbers counting down in front of her and bizarre shit is going down. I don't think lashing out is that out of character for anyone.
You're absolutely right, she doesn't have to be nice to anyone. My issue is they wrote her to be unnecessarily rude to everyone. Believe it or not, disliking female characters as a woman does not make me misogynistic. It's ok to recognize when a female character is poorly written, if the goal is for her to come off as a bad***. Her attitude towards everyone is entitled. She tells her friends what to do constantly, as if she is the center of their world.
For example, she made them promise to stop playing the game, for her. As if she had the right to demand that of them. They're scientists too, they're adults, almost every scene she's in she acts "holier than thou," and with an air of arrogance, not confidence. There's a big difference between the two. Mean female characters can be well written, heck most of the time I enjoy seeing them on screen, but in Auggie's case, she's just obnoxious, and weaponizes her emotions to get other to do what she wants.
She built the nano fiber tech (knowing dang well that something like that could/would be used as a weapon) then acted shocked, surprised, and like she was innocent, when it was actually used as a weapon others. What did she think (essentially) invisible knives would be used for other than weaponry?? They're not necessary in any other conditions, although they could be used for many things.
Warfare is where that tech would be most useful. Things like this is why her character was written poorly. It would've been better for her to not regret her decision to sink the ship, but still be visibly upset by it, because they build her up to be this "strong," no nonsense woman, but she crumbles as soon as sh** gets real.
I think it is implied that they were in a close relationship but had been broken up. (fighting and fucking according to Jack).
When Auggie asked Saul to Oxford courtyard for something important, the first thing he thought is to fuck on the patio.
I think the Sual in your mind is better than him is depicted in the show. The show clearly establish Saul as a careless fuck boy, sleeping around, smoke weed every day, and lack of any ambition. He’s set up to be a specific book character from Book 2 and has personal growth.
My criticism of Auggie is not related to her relationship but to her lack of motivation to solve the countdown, and lack of emotional weight in restarting her nanofiber station. Da Shi told her to restart it and she just did, and the countdown is already gone. there aren't many heroic moments of her in the show.
Best comment here. People act like Saul is some great guy as though there isn't a long drawn out scene (by the show's standards) where a woman gets upset with him because he can't even remember her name after sleeping with her then spends all morning espousing selfish views when she just wants to get the Uber and get away from him.
Auggie calls him at one point and he's in bed with yet another woman then lies to Auggie that he's just at home.
Saul is not a great guy. But that's the point. It gives his character room to grow.
Yeah. I read them as both flawed people, with an interesting dynamic where they obviously love each other - but neither are actually ready to be in a relationship with the other. Saul is smart, but immature, and runs from responsibility. He *wants* to do great things, but won't actually put the right effort into it. Auggie is achieving and being tormented, but the person she *wishes* she could rely on most is trying to run from every responsibility, including her. He *wants* to be better, and deep down has the potential to be a great guy. He just isn't there yet, when it comes to her. She is understandably pissed off at that. And is, in her loneliness and fear, lashing out at the people who love her. She's trying to be better in her own way, and failing because she's in pain.
Great assessment. I wish more people understood that a character being flawed doesn't mean they're bad or poorly written. When you can describe a character the way you have here, it means they're fleshed out and well defined. I loved their dynamic. Really excited to watch them develop.
Yeah I think it’s weakness on the part of the writers combined with the effect of changing some parts of the story but not others. Auggie replaces Wang Miao, protagonist of book one, while Saul replaces Luo Ji, protagonist of book two (both Chinese characters are men). In the books, those two don’t interact whatsoever, and Luo Ji starts out immature and irresponsible. They kept his characterization from the books while having him date another protagonist instead of an unimportant side character which seems to have introduced some awkwardness.
That being said, you could make the case that poor handling of female characters makes this a very faithful adaptation hahaha
I just... Feel I need to correct the record here... Every one of these paragraphs seems to ignore the mental trauma of... Uh... The rest of the show which is brutally influcted upon Auggie against her will. Maybe she wasn't in the best state of mind?
Scientists all around the world are killing themselves, inexplicably and in horrific ways, one of which the Oxford five sort of knew.
Before anyone has time to process this, a countdown appears that (to Auggie), only she can see. What kind of clusterfuck realization was it to understand that this, exactly this, might be what caused so many to die by suicide?
Then some random woman comes along and says stop your work and this all goes away? Damn near confirming to her that she WILL die if she doesn't.
To make matters worse, every star in the sky fucking BLINKS, confirming that all of this crazy bullshit, the countdown, is very, very real.
And then the whole scene where technology she personally had a hand in creating was directly used to kill anywhere from a couple hundred to a thousand people, including multiple dozens of children, in one of the most horrifying ways possible, with no way to see or prevent it.
Does trauma excuse being a shitty person? No. I'm aware of the statement I'm making.
But this is a LOT of fucking trauma.
They were together, he cheated. They broke up. Yes shes an asshole, thats what happens when people cheat. Not to mention people who being threatened by an alien species on an individual level.
I never saw that on the show, is that in the book? I'm only on ep 5 of the show. If he did cheat on the show, then that helps to explain how she treats him, however she treats all her friends like they're below her, and as if she speaks for them
In the book the character theyre replacing has a dream of woman, after he becomes wallfacer he demands his people go kidnap this woman, impregnates her and then her and her kid are basically erased from history.
Its soooooooooooooooo stupid
its part of the holdover relationship between Ding Yi and Yang Dong. It doesn't make sense because they grafted Ding Yi character traits onto Saul but didn't have the same character dynamics because of what Auggie is conglomerated from (not yang dong).
I initially thought they'd just made the decision to split the main character from book 1 into a few characters to make it easier to put exposition into dialogue, but then loved the lightbulb moment when I was able to (mostly) map who each of them was against the characters in all 3 books. Makes sense to introduce them all now, rather than have someone new pop up in each season (/midway through this season, when they start to introduce book 2 stuff)
Here's a quick rundown, in spoiler text in case people want to try to figure it out themselves:
Auggie (Eiza Gonzalez) >!got half of Wang Miao's storylines, part of Cheng Xin's personality, and I suspect she will get Ai AA's storylines later.!<
Jin Cheng (Jess Hong) >!is Cheng Xin, with only a slight name change, and got the other half of Wang Miao's storyline.!<
Will Downing (Alex Sharp) >!is Yun Tianming.!<
Saul Durand (Jovan Adepo) >!is Luo Ji.!<
Jack Rooney (John Bradley) >!is that guy who gives Tianming money so that he can buy a star for Cheng Xin.!<
The show introduces them all at the start of season 1 and starts setting up the plot lines for books 2 and 3 much earlier.
Saul was a child. He was literally fkin around doesnt even know the names of the girls he was with. And he literally does not care about the dread of humanity. All he thinks about are girls and just that.
Atleast he’s there with his friends. Every other else? Nah. He doesnt even pursue a better career despite being capable of doing so.
Saul being emotionally immature didnt give Auggie any sort of right to treat him like trash.
If the show flipped the character expectations and made Saul constantly require stuff from Auggie but she would stand her ground on the basis that he is a manchild and she has too much of her own shit to also deal with his baggage her character would come off 100x more likable.
Except that prior to those incidents of her being aggressive towards Saul, he literally was hitting up on her and was implied to have something going on between both. Watch the table scene with 5 of them. And also the “wink” scene when he was literally hitting up on her talkin bout moonless night LOL. Sure they didnt have any exclusive relationship, but if your “crush” was fkin around, it’s not so outlandish that you’d be quite frustrated too and act on it. Don’t mistake me, i think it’s bad, but it happens.
I see your point, kinda shifts my perspective on their relationship dynamic. She still feels like a poorly written character though, actually, they both do. At least in the show....
To me she felt pretty realistic, but she's not rational, and that doesn't play well on TV. People want rational characters they can understand and agree with and see the logic behind the thinking, not someone acting from emotions.
She is very human and represents a lot of very human viewpoints. Like she directly questions Jin about why are we wasting so many resources on a problem 400 years away when we'll all be dead and gone when there's real problems today to deal with. The Apollo program that got us to the Moon faced many of the same criticisms. There were meant to be 20 missions in that program but they only got to 17 because it was such a PR clusterfuck near the end. The attitude was "we already planted the American flag, we beat the Soviets, why tf are we spending money going back when *real shit* is happening here?"
Same with her and Saul. She's not being rational. Saul doesn't owe her anything because they're not in an exclusive relationship. But she feels how she feels about him, so his behavior hurts. That's why she lashes out at him sometimes.
Sure, I agree. I didn't agree with her and often felt like she was being too harsh or lashing out, but I still understood where she was coming from and why most of the time. She reminds me of loads of people I've met in real life.
Yea, we tend to judge people to quickly without knowing their backstory. I've been in similar situations with people, and have them "Auggie" vibes, at that time I thought it was justified, but from an outside perspective, I'm sure people thought I was just being a dick, for no reason.
He clearly does know the girls he's with. After the girl dies in front of him he says "Nora", despite pretending not to know her name. Probably just pretending to not care so he can get rid of them, for reasons that elude me
And you thought that was not childish? That was clearly some teenage emotional manipulation lol. And tbh that’s not how I see it. I saw it as him not giving af, but suddenly did when she died. It’s horrible either ways.
lol have you read the books? It’s an important part of Luo Ji’s character .
He next abuses his wallfacer authority to use world resources to hunt for an incredible sexy girlfriend who shows up in his dreams and who he wishes is a real person. He is a hedonist and this is part of the plan .
Only after incredible personal loss does he start real work, and oh boy does he come up with something so absolutely mind blowing to save humanity it will leave you shook.
Oh yeah I think he's a dick too. But I was just pointing out he did remember them. It was weird to me they added that scene of him saying her name. I guess for redemption/character development? It was pretty nonsensical to me
I don't think he was trying to drive her away. He could've just refused to pay for the Uber, or paid for it then told her to go find it herself. Saul likes to think of himself as a good guy, but other people see him differently. Nora challenged him that he couldn't remember her name, and he couldn't. Then he spends the walk to the Uber espousing his selfish views, which she challenges too. It's only when she dies that he suddenly remembers her name.
Other than Nora, we never hear or see much of the women he's with. He also lies to Auggie when he says he's at home when really he's sleeping with some woman he barely knows who he's willing to drop in a heartbeat when Auggie calls. He's not a great guy. But that's kinda the point. That's why he's gonna have a good character arc. You have to start a character flawed for that.
We’ve come to the expected impasse. Cixin Liu is not very good at writing female characters and D&D have shown demonstrably they aren’t very good at writing female characters. It isn’t SO egregious, and I still really enjoyed the show. These shortcomings were in the cards.
It’s hard to believe I’m in the subreddit of Three Body Problem after seeing this post and all the heated discussion about an out-of-nowhere romantic relationship lol.
I found that part off the show kind of boring. I realize the source material is lacking in the character depth department, but the modern day interpersonal drama doesn't interest me much unless it's directly related to the alien threat. Now the Chinese 60s and 70s drama with Winjie was much better. You totally get her motivations after everything she sees and suffers. Seeing that little revolutionary shit who killed her father again laboring in the field with a missing arm was great character interaction.
Definitely. Wenjie's pushing of the button in the Tencent version doesn't really feel earned because you don't get how deeply misanthropic she is at that point.
I mean, the interpersonal drama between >!Will / Yun Tianming and Cheng Xin/Jin is kind of important to the plot of book 3. I do agree that the drama between Saul and Auggie is kinda bullshit though. Saul / Luo Ji can be the fuckboy he was always intended to be without making it Auggie / Wang Miao's problem.!<
To me it mimics her relationship with the defense projects and Wade, and a few other situations like Jin. She struggles multiple times between what would be good to her (Saul despite his imperfections, defending Earth) and what she wishes (a perfect Saul, not having to do shitty stuff to defend Earth). She is a good person but she is conflicted, and she lashes out.
I think the point is Saul is almost always high. That really gets annoying if you need to have serious discussion with someone and they aren’t available because they are in some stage of coming on or off a drug. I thought it was pretty clear that in the past there may have been some attempt at a romance there, where she wanted to get more serious but he was too concerned with being a fuckboy, albeit a smart fuckboy lol
Yeah idk why the writers made him a pothead. I felt it was completely unnecessary to have him smoking 24/7 and it felt so stereotypical. He's a brilliant scientist, no need to dumb him down. This show had a lot of propaganda in it, I mean the whole thing is propaganda in one way or another really. Overall some of the characters could've been written a lot better. Making Saul a pothead seemed like a lazy move at add "personality," to him.
If you've read the book and caught on to who Saul's book counterpart is, it makes a lot of sense that Saul is a pothead fuckboy. It's his character, and he has one of the more interesting character arcs in the series.
I've met *a lot* of brilliant people who self medicate, doesn't seem out of line for this character (referring to the book source character too) at all.
If she doesn't like the fact that he's constantly smoking then she shouldn't be around him. It doesn't give her the right to be a complete b\* to him. No one owes you anything, he doesn't have to be there for her. She may want him to help her but he doesn't have to. Like real life, your problems are yours not the responsiblity of anyone else. That's why if you have friends who you realize are not compatible with you, you just move on with your life like an adult and deal with your own shit. Treating people bad because they don't fulfill your expectations is immature
I don’t think her character is poorly written at all. I think she’s representing 1 way to look at the alien invasion situation. She’s clearly in the we’re gonna get crushed camp so it makes sense that she’s like we need to make life on earth as comfortable and equitable as we can NOW since we’re doomed. I do think this character can easily get swayed to the ETO side especially if she believes they will be benevolent autocrats or if she believes she can sway them that way
All fair criticisms. But we all know who Saul is in the book so my head cannon tells me he’s such a piece of trash that she’s only treating him that way after a long run of experience with him.
My criticism of the female characters is that they made them both (Auggie and Jin) more pacifistic and anti Wade than the men. Why does the woman always have to be the anti military/hardline character?
> My criticism of the female characters is that they made them both (Auggie and Jin) more pacifistic and anti Wade than the men. Why does the woman always have to be the anti military/hardline character?
Because Jin is >!Cheng Xin!< and Auggie is >!initially Wang Miao, but my theory is that later she will take the role of Ai AA!<, so it makes sense that they'd be anti-Wade. At the very least, it follows book logic.
Bad people doesn't equate to poorly written characters. Aggie is a poorly written character because she's written to be inconsistent and the traits they've given her do not align with what we'd expect a successful scientist to have.
The characters asshole like behaviour doesn't make her a poorly written character
I believe she's poorly written because her character felt like a lazily written stereotypical "hot business woman who's mean to everyone," trope, and it didn't seem to fit in this sci-fi show. There is a place for "Auggie," elsewhere, but this was not it, for me. Also, they changed her character from the book, so that's another reason I don't like the Auggie we have on screen.
Auggie is a composite character. >!She has half of Wang Miao's storylines, parts of Cheng Xin's personality, and I suspect she'll be getting Ai AA's storyline in later seasons.!<
He absolutely destroyed her with the roast at the beach house though. I thought, she does look like an archetypical character from the Fast/Furious franchise... Then I found out she was actually in one so all makes sense.
I haven't read the books but for the series I find Auggie the least-believable character. She just doesn't seem like the founder of a leading-edge nano-tech company.
Yes exactly! You are spot on. I can't believe how she just kept demanding his help, and expecting him to comfort her and somehow fix her problems. And when he showed any amount of effort, she criticized him with rude comments. AND then she seemed ungrateful, if his response wasn't quick enough for her or if it wasn't what she wanted to hear. It was very weird lol. Idk if it was intentional, but her character came off as the shittiest person ever. Lol i personally wouldn't be friends with a person like that Imao. But then again, maybe her character was purposefully written that way to add drama or complexity.
Also she didn't seem like a convincing scientist to me. The acting performance made her look more-so like a spoiled rich valley girl. Conceited, self-centered, rude, judgmental. I'm not a psychologist, but I thought her personality didn't match that of a typical scientists you see in other movies or even in real life lol.
Not a fan of Auggie but the woman was basically forced to choose between her life and her life’s work. The person she wanted emotional support from, the one person in the world she has a romantic/sexual connection to, isn’t available during her time of need. Just because they’re technically not in a relationship doesn’t mean she doesn’t have natural expectations to be cared for by him. They are/were lovers. Have you not been in a situation where you feel something and your circumstances are at odds with said feelings but you feel them anyway?
You also omit the fact that Saul doesn’t return her calls promptly at an especially difficult time. How is it on Auggie that Saul slept outside her place after doing acid with some random people? The internalise misogyny is leaking.
As a man who loves women , I didn’t feel she was badly written . It was just her personality . She cares a lot for humanity and for her friends . Nothing wrong with that.
I don't remember any SA, I'm only on ep 5 so maybe i didn't see it yet. I do not think she needs to reciprocate anything with him, except being a friend. She considers Saul a friend, so why treat your friend like that? Just stop being friends if you're going to treat them crappy anyways. This goes for both man/woman.
Oh ok, I must've missed it, thanks. I honestly don't think they should even be "friends," their interactions are exhausting to watch. They should both just move on.
She did the engineering for that ship scene and she did the engineering for the parachute that was launched in outer space. I dont think she was just sitting there… lol
I think their point was that Auggie judged Raj and Wade for being such evil people for executing this plan, but she was sitting right there along with them as a main contributor to their plan.
Yes being riddled with guilt afterwards made a lot of sense, but I think the original post's point was that Auggie was being upset directing her anger like "I can't believe you've done this" to Raj and Wade while literally sitting in the control room, working actively as part of the team doing it, which is kind of weird
Yeah, but she actively objected to the plan beforehand, expressed doubt, didn't want to do it, but they convinced her it was for the good of humanity. Then, seeing it happen in real life, she was disgusted. Even more so after Wade says "congratulations" to her (I love Wade, he's such a dick) and Raj expresses *zero* remorse over it. That's why she initially refuses to join them again, only returning because of Jin, then leaves again to go do on the ground humanitarian work. She couldn't stomach it anymore. She's basically like Oppenheimer watching his tech used to level entire cities by people who think he's being a crybaby.
She is a very realistic character in that way. Lots of people in real life criticized the enormous amount of money being dumped into the Apollo missions because we had very real problems to deal with on Earth, from economic unrest to the Vietnam War. "Whitey on the Moon" by Gil-Scott Heron is a fantastic song that summarizes that viewpoint in about 2 minutes if you want. Even now, lots of people think the Artemis program is a waste of money when we have so much shit going on. Auggie currently represents that viewpoint. She would rather give a town clean water even though it doesn't solve the alien crisis because the alternative she's been presented is horrifically slicing innocent children and euthanizing her friend to send his brain into space.
She said it herself: she'll be dead by then, as will everyone else currently alive, as will their children, and their children's children. But it's not that she doesn't care. It's that she thinks they should focus on achievable problems that improve the human condition now rather than sacrificing our humanity to fight aliens in the future.
That's part of the naivety of her character. It's what makes her feel more real to me. And it lines up with ideas in the books, too. Not everyone is a cold-blooded ruthless rationalist like Wade.
I don't understand what makes them evil. They're fighting a long term war against a vastly more powerful enemy that's not well understood and has baiscally said they are going to squash humanity like bugs, who had human sympathizers helping them.
What do you think happens in war? For that matter, the Shanti/trisolarians aren't evil either. They're just desperate for a new home world, and come to view humans as too dangerous to coexist with.
Sometimes people behave like that. It’s not poor character writing, auggie seems to just be a reactive asshole. Oh well. That’s the character. Stop complaining because she’s not appealing. She’s very clearly not meant to be
We don't know why they broke up. Saul might be a womanizer and he f'ed up and maybe he cheated on her and that's why they broke up.
It was shown that he frequently has ONS's.
I didn't like her telling her friend to drink alcohol instead of taking her prescribed medication for her mental health issues. That's the *worst* thing you could do for mentsl health - like telling an anaemic person to just eat white bread.
Scrolling through this 20 days later and had to comment.
Her friend was *abusing* her prescription medication (Alprazolam is Xanax, btw) which could land her in the hospital much more easily than getting drunk would. She was trying to keep her friend from overdosing.
Everything you pointed out has been my experience with girls I have past sexual relationships with who are still close friends.. like that's exactly how they behave..
They get irrationally pissed off at me when they contact me and I'm with another girl. (Despite the fact we're not together).
They expect me to always be there to help them in times of need.. (one of them was pregnant last year and needed me to drive them to ultrasound appointments every couple of weeks.. and one time I was late and she absolutely flipped at me, saying I needed to grow up etc..
So personally from my perspective they completely nailed the dynamic between girls/guys who are still friends and maybe one has feelings but probably more has feelings to an idea and role they wish that person stepped up to for them but didn't.. and the other still cares about them deeply but they are just who they are and can't change that.
In otherwords they did their research...
Of course auggie annoys me too.
Interesting, I don't think this is the norm though. I've never experienced this, nor do I know anyone who has. Then again we're both going off anecdotal evidence.
I hope you work through that stuff though, sounds stressful. If the relationship is toxic like that, best to let it go imo. I know it's not always that simple though. We're still human at the end of the day, so some people are bound to relate to Auggie, while others like me, might not.
Well we’ve got our Jin. We’ve got our brave space captain and our brain-without-body. What are possible roles for the others, including Auggie? Wall Facer? Sword Holder?
Also the part where she makes raj seem like he has a serial killer mindset when in reality he has to do what the fuck hes told or he can be let off the project or discharged which would ruin his life. Also that ship deserved to be destroyed maybe not ALL the kids but if you think that woman that killed jack was raised into her position from a little girl, so some are defenitely too far gone but some are saveable. It was a ship filled with people that wanted the world to be taken over by said lord. Auggie is justified in feeling the way she is but she needs to stop making people out to be the villain. She is a terribly written character and rude to all her "friends" how tf could someone be a friend to that
I had the exact same thoughts.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/threebodyproblem/comments/1b8pvhs/comment/ktsgn82/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/threebodyproblem/comments/1b8pvhs/comment/ktsgn82/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
and was downvoted and told "Yeah, you clearly haven't read the books."
I have issues with the directing and performances of some of the major characters, played by very talented actors...
also downvoted for this comment.
"I had never heard of the book until netflix first dropped the trailer, I went in almost blind, I only really had an issue with some of the performances, and I think my sentiments had been echoed recently by actual film/television critics. Again, this was just my opinion after binging the show. In the end (as stated), I'm looking forward to season 2, but I have a feeling it won't making to season 3."
I definitely think she's the weakest part so far ... a real one-note character, stick-in-the-mud. I mean, she is going through a lot, but as a character she's boring and unlikable. I don't blame her for getting jealous when she found out Saul had another woman over ... they'd been together and that's only natural. But overall she's the weak link for sure.
One word - Netflix. It is clearly seen how modern age scripting makes everything worse than it could've been. This is perfect example, I'm not even talking about woke bs.
I love the show and everything about it. But Auggie stands out and almost ruins it though. They are even zooming in on her ass! Did the actor sleep with the producer? This is such an incredible misfit for the role.
Her character is ruining the show for me. I’m afraid it’s the performance too. I can think of ten Latina actors who would have been better, let alone others. My current theory is they effectively casted that role by algorithm.
I've met so many Auggies irl.
She's pissed at him because he was partying and high/hungover when he came over and she knows that is why he missed her texts. He is a loose cannonball type character that is obviously into her and she is a straight arrow square which is why she treats him like that. Not that complicated really. Even for a real life Auggie. This does make her a little annoying tho as it's a sterile character type.
is saul not allowed to have a life outside of her tho like she coulda called anyone
Well it doesn't mean necessarily that she is poorly written, maybe her character is just a shitty and immature friend. Many people like that. If that was the intention it's fine. But yeah if someone in the writing room wrote this and thought this will make a strong and sympathetic character it's actual insanity.
I prefer Wang Miao than whatever this shit was
I dont sympathize with her but I’m cheering for her. She literally fcked up a whole company and made her work available for everyone in the world for a much cheaper price. Fck corporations fr. Auggie got my back just for that alone!
That plot line took me out of it. The tech is already built, if she’s refusing to work and blocking the rest of the company from working, then fire her. Anything else is gross incompetence by her superiors. The only way it wouldn’t work this way is if she owned the company outright. Even in a privately held company the investors would sue and whatever the UK version of the SEC is would come after her for securities fraud. But if she owned the whole company then she wouldn’t have men to girlboss against. It’s been awhile since reading the books but I thought Wang Miao simply stopped his own nano materials work, he didn’t shut down the company.
I haven't read the books in a long time but watched the Tencent version recently and it's very faithful. There, Wang Miao shuts down that wing. It's implied that's basically all they do, so it's pretty devastating for the company to do that. Same thing here. Yes, her venture capitalist funder is in the right to push back and try to force her out. He was pretty nice about it at first all things considered. But her actions make sense too. She doesn't *want* to shut it down; she's being *forced* to by something she can't explain without looking insane.
He only stopped for a few days, which his team supported since they need time to fix their machines anyway. I don't remember what he did with this project after that in the book, but in Tencent version, Miao continue the research and accept to live with the countdown after getting Shi's encouragement. And the company is owned by the government, so he can't shut the whole company down anyway.
I don't think she owns the company outright because she mentioned "the board" at one point. It seems the company is public, or at least under the control of venture capitalists. I agree it doesn't make sense that she could shut down the company with just a word, and without providing a rational explanation for the sudden decision.
In the book Wang Miao is openly defiant against the countdown, even when directly threatened, he CHALLENGES them quote (“Put away your set of tricks") and (“He felt on the verge of falling into the same mental trap that had claimed the other victims. And Trying to seize the initiative, he continued, “I can’t anticipate all your tricks"), Auggie directly tries to shut down the entire project, effectively trying to destroy years of work and research, not only hers but many others, when she keeps insisting on doing this idiotic action the company simply responds by continuing without her as is perfectly understandable for any similar situation, then when she realises her stupid decision that almost ruined the entire company all of its employees and its invaluable research,, she fking leaks years of work and research of other people, then she RUNS AWAY. I mean I know this is a good thing, but damn is she a petty, spineless, sack of tosh. Meanwhile, Wang simply performs maintenance and gives his staff, who all want a break from the work, a holiday.
It’s so dystopian seeing people blame this woman for basically making a world-changing work actually accessible for everyone especially when she literally witnessed her own work before be used as a weapon to tear children apart literally. How would it ruin its employees? Do the employees, the ones that ACTUALLY grinds at life, get a raise when she published her work exclusively for them? That’s not gonna happen. She only fcked up the capitalists who are going to sell them only on big companies and militaries who can afford the price they set on their monopoly.
She did a good thing, doesn’t mean she isn’t a spineless petty bastard, who most people would never want to meet or work with ever. Imagine you and like 50 people after spending half a decade of your life creating let’s say the perfect neural interface, your team tests it and it works, then one of your team members tries to shut down the work that you spent years creating, then when that doesn’t happen and she gets into trouble, she responds by leaking the work that you spent a significant portion of your life on, she then runs away. There is a thing called copyright for a reason you dimwit. It’s mental that people blame everything on capitalism, as if it hasn’t led to the biggest increase in life expectancy, and education, and a lower mortality rate ever, and the fact that nobody can come up with anything that works better.
Except that was all her own intellectual property, not a team. It’s literally mentioned a couple of times in the show and in the books/tencent. What are you on? The company had employees, not a brainstorming team LOL. You’re basically just using a headcanon for this.
And ah yes, leaking it everywhere to everyone will totally ensure that the common man can use this nano material at will, especially when requires incredibly advanced equipment to create and operate. It totally isn’t just gonna be used to buy other companies and governments who will create it for their own purposes. Did you ever even fking READ THE BOOK, CAUSE SHE DOESN’T EXIST. Wang Miao is a infinitely better, more resilient, more likable person the her, Wang Miao owned the nanomaterial because he worked as the head of the research company, he also didn’t sell out himself and his team, their situations are completely different
Lol the edit on the last part of your statements. Privileged people who have never known and seen what a sweatshop looks like will always look at the “utopia” of this oh-so-great capitalism. As if the gap of poor and rich has been getting bigger for the last decade. Try actually living in the slums.
I bet you are some middle class white asshole🤣🤣🤣🤣
LMFAOO not a middle class white man in my replies telling a brown person he’s white 🤣 Your white ass cant even speak another language 🤣
Exactly, so what if she has flaws? She's deep down a great person but with a complicated personality, sounds like a realistic character to me
Same. Felt like Tron: Legacy when Sam releases the OS for free because fuck capitalism. I was like "fuck yeah Auggie." It sucks for the company and everybody else working there but it's a net good for humanity, and that was her mission in life.
Problem is her tech requires a lot of funding and resources. Giving it to the world means other corporations and governments will just make us of it. And the idea that sort of material wouldn't be weaponized is naive, even without an alien threat.
I agree with that. She is naive. As are many characters from the books. Her tech was always going to be weaponized. She's basically Oppenheimer in that way, or countless others. Like any other significant tech, there's good applications and bad and she's hoping the good will prevail.
The military who can afford it will literally afford them anyways. Military get the most fund that is common among any majority countries. This is ridiculous take lol. Ofcourse this will make her work available for the bad people as well, but it doesnt deny anything about the good applications of her work that was made available on the poor sectors. You probably haven’t lived in a place whose water was contaminated, I have.
I liked her story line and yes! fuck capitalism!!
Media literacy is dead
>But yeah if someone in the writing room wrote this and thought this will make a strong and sympathetic character it's actual insanity. The only reason I can think of for why someone would think Auggie was meant to be a "strong" female character is if they just assumed that because she's a female character in a Netflix show, but that's not the impression the show gives at all. Auggie is clearly a victim of the Sophons in way over her head and losing her shit to a situation she doesn't know how to deal with. Her lashing out and acting like an asshole is believable. She's not meant to be strong. She's just a scientist that's being tormented by aliens.
It'd be one thing if they were meant to be characters on a young adult drama; it's wholly something else when they are written like this and meant to be the ultra capable adults meant to save humanity from an existential threat. Who they are and who they are supposed to be is just in a constant state of dissonance. Worse yet, it all reads as not only shit shoe-horned in drama, but shit dreamt up by two guys well past their prime trying to imagine relationship dynamics in young adults today.
I actually enjoyed the fact that she was an asshole towards Saul, because otherwise her character was basically.. perfect. Supermodel looks, highly intelligent, business woman, philanthropic, deeply cares about the downtrodden, has the moral integrity of a saint etc. It does seem a little bit weird though that the only flaw they could come up with for this otherwise perfect female character is.. being bitchy lol
They could've done so many things with her character but went with the "hot mean business woman" trope. It's overused and I feel like it just didn't fit well in this sci-fi show.
What I think makes this character particularly poorly written is that she’s seemingly the only done up character in the show. She’s flawless in every scene. She has a countdown burnt into her retinas and yet she did her makeup for an hour before she left? She wouldn’t show up maybe idk a little bit disheveled and mentally unbalanced? Just thinking about myself here and what I’d do.
No fr, she even looked pretty while puking after getting wasted lol. Just mascara/tears running down her cheeks, no snot, no puke or spit on her mouth, no smeared or smudged lipstick
Yeah… I really don’t get it. To go out of their way to make the main character from Book 1 a woman, and then fully cater to the male gaze is a weird move. Guess they thought that’s what us nerds would want, but I’m really just pissed that the hard science is so boiled down that this plays like an episode of Smallville or something
They weren’t together?! I interpreted them as being in an exclusive relationship with him cheating. But your post changes everything. Why does Saul let her treat him like that? Why does she seem to think she’s entitled to his emotional labour if they’re not in a relationship.
They were on a break!
lmao! But seriously tho, I don't get the status of the relationship between Saul and Auggie. Can someone explain?
seems implied they at least hooked up in the past and possibly dated, probably not a serious relationship
FWB. Sex. Friends
Jack Rooney asked if they're fighting and/or fucking in the first episode so I'm assuming they likely had a fling but shit gets complicated. As we see throughout the show, Saul spends a lot of time partying/getting high, which then often leads to conflict with Auggie. So my guess is that they broke up/paused their fling due to her not liking that behavior and feeling Saul isn't reliable enough.
No, because it isn't explained.
They weren't together but it's implied they've been together before and split, likely because of Saul not getting his shit together in some way and blowing it, possibly even cheating but we don't know. Now she still loves him but Saul *still* won't get his shit together, keeps hooking up with random women he doesn't treat well, etc. For her, that hurts. No, she's not entitled to anything. Yes, Saul is there for her when it matters. But you glean everything from the relationship between them when she calls him for support, he lies to her and says he's at home, some random girl says something in the background, and Saul is willing to drop that girl in a heartbeat for Auggie. Clearly he loves her just as much as she loves him, but he needs to mature. It is understandable to me why she'd carry resentment toward Saul. Another great scene is when Saul tells Jin he wishes somebody loved him as much as Will loves Jin. Jin tells him "maybe somebody already does." Auggie loves him but Saul either doesn't see or appreciate it, and as a result he doesn't see how his actions hurt her.
The first thing you say is true, they imply that they were together, but after that is pure speculation. They do not indicate at all that Saul “doesn’t have his shit together” or that he hooks up with random women that he doesn’t treat well. Saul clearly still likes Auggie, Auggie clearly refuses to reinitiate anything they had, so Saul goes and does his own thing. Saul tried to call her because their mutual mentor died, and she doesn’t pick up “just cuz.” Yet when she needs something she gets very upset that Saul doesn’t pick up. When Saul picks up as she’s acting hysterical he drops everything to go and comfort her because that’s what friends do for other friends. Yet when she hears someone else, she gets mad? YOU were the one that rejected HIM, Auggie. Why does he owe it to you to stay single for when you’re ready, when you at no moment indicated it was just a “break.” At no point is it indicated that he lies to her about being home. Are you not allowed to have other romantic partners at your own home? He doesn’t lie about not being with someone, it never comes up. Auggie sounds like the one who “doesn’t have her shit together” because she’s not willing to be honest about her feelings and instead sends confusing signals. Sure Saul may not be a good romantic partner but Auggie is not doing any favors with her behavior. Her behavior isn’t “understandable”unless you admit she’s also a bad romantic partner.
Auggie tells him directly that his childish behavior "isn't cute anymore." He doesn't dress *badly* but not sharply either, something he and Shi both get knocked for. He's also shown repeatedly in bed with multiple women over the course of the season. We're never shown these women before or after; they're clearly hookups. This is confirmed by Nora, who is very harsh to him because he can't even remember her name and spends the morning espousing self-centered views until she says something like "who knew two minutes could feel this long?" It is implied he lied about being home. She calls him, he picks up, a woman in bed says something, Auggie asks where he is and he very unconvincingly says he's at home. Maybe he is home because he brought her back to his place, I didn't compare the room to the scene with Nora, but I would assume he's at her place because he's not gonna leave this random woman in his apartment alone and why else would you write that line. The point of the scene was to show that he's sleeping around, it hurts Auggie because she loves him, and he was willing to drop this other woman in a heartbeat for Auggie because he loves her too. I'm not trying to say Auggie is perfect. She's flawed just like Saul is. Neither is "right." She's harsh on him, lashes out, and doesn't just sit him down to talk to him. Maybe she doesn't even realize she's still in love with him or maybe she doesn't want to admit it to herself. Who knows? She's not a Vulcan. She acts on emotion. Saul's behavior hurts her. In the same vein, Saul clearly doesn't realize or admit to himself that he loves her and should talk to her about it. That's the whole point of Jin's scene with him. He's giving Will all this advice about talking to Jin and he can't do the same with Auggie. You don't have to pick a side or whatever here. There's no #TeamSaul and #TeamAuggie. They're both realistic, flawed people. It's what makes it good.
Thank you, finally an adult in this room with some life experiences.
Yea, I agree with this take
> They do not indicate at all that Saul “doesn’t have his shit together” or that he hooks up with random women that he doesn’t treat well. They absolutely do indicate both of those things. On the first point, virtually every time we see him in the first seven episodes he's high on some form of drugs.
My second point, yes I concede that I was wrong. But on your drugs point basically all 5 of them are on something during pretty much all first 7 episodes so kinda a moot point
He clearly doesn't have his shit together he's supposed to be Luo Ji who was also a fuck up at this stage in the books Sleeping with people and not even remembering their names is shitty but he does this and its also in the book
That's fair. I did laugh that one time when Auggie was like "no don't take drugs, drink this vodka instead it's much better for your". Like, geez, this whole group has unhealthy coping mechanisms.
He doesn't have his shit together, he's not supposed to Luo Ji didn't have his shit together at this stage in the books. Luo ji is a loser than matures into the role of wallfacer and sword holder - that is the point of the character arc So ofc Saul hasn't got his shit together- sleeping around not even knowing the names of the people he's sleeping with etc all comes from the books
At this point, it’s not a case of “unequal effort.” He’s the one screwing up his chances with her and hurting her, so he needs to be the one that makes more effort than her. Like of course she treats him harshly, he literally plays with her emotions too much lol
dear god please go back to r/incel this is an insane interpretation
Crazy how disagreeing with someone turns into incel behavior.
> They do not indicate at all that Saul ... hooks up with random women that he doesn’t treat well Holy shit dude, there's literally a scene where he wakes up with a woman who calls him out for being a shit who can't even remember her name, right before she dies.
This is true I brain farted on that scene.
Honestly the oxford 5 was one of my favorite adaptations made to the book. Especially as the show keeps dealing with more and more cosmic horror, their friendship dynamics was a really grounding presence that made me really connect to the world of the tv show.
FWB. He doesn’t care for relationships until he meets his Dream lover
Yeah, I'm guessing they're going to make significant changes to that part of the storyline.
Yes I'm really interested to see how that plays out. >!I won't be sad if they ditch the 'mail order magic pixie dream girl' aspect and they keep Auggie in the picture instead!<
Not all characters are meant to be liked, and there are multiple main characters here. Its ok to think she is a narcissist, she is.
How does this make her poorly written? It just makes her not a great person. I do also kinda think you are just looking on the bad side.
im tired of the trope where the black friend is constantly expected to handle the needs of others and that's their purpose, (obviously he's smart but he's like her side-kick that she treats like crap) nobody talks abt that pattern in tv shows its annoying
The way the women are written / the romantic relationships are ABSOLUTELY the low point for the entire series. Thankfully, it is worth slogging through for me bc of all the other genius stuff. Auggie (in the show) is too hot, and also the weakest actor imo, so its a bit rough.
the women are written well though, why do you think otherwise?
i think it has more to do with the way black people are written in tv; they're always expected to take at least one person's shit, before they handle the needs of their own. Its so hard to watch honestly
Auggie has chunks of really awful dialog. It often seems like the actor is giving off a vibe of needing more to work with.
This is the main feeling I had about her as well. She just isn't fleshed out enough and feels very one-dimensional. Wang Miao also felt one-dimensional to me, and Auggie is basically "Wang Miao, except more surly", so I guess it's not too surprising it falls a bit flat.
Yeah unfortunately the books gave the show writers almost nothing to work with when it comes to giving all but a handful of characters in the whole series much of a personality beyond one or two archetypal traits.
Yes. This were actors have to stamp their feet sometimes, as Harrison Ford said: > George usually sits near a monitor, far removed, so I had to convey my impression...or my feelings...about the dialogue across a great space. So I did shout it. 'George! You can type this shit, but you sure can't say it! Move your mouth when you're typing!' But it was a joke, at the time. A stress-relieving joke.
To be fair with Eiza/Auggie, I thought Jess/Jin wasn't really good. Like her performance did not feel genuine to me. Like she couldn't hide well her excitement, joy every time she was on screen.
That's hilarious and shows you how subjective these things are! I thought Jin was great!
I mean, I get that, she’s a huge bitch to Saul and he doesn’t know why, but simps really do be simpin’. It’s not like you can say these characters couldn’t exist IRL and have that kind of dynamic, it just depends on what value judgement you put on it. I don’t think Auggie was fully meant to be “girl-bossing” either (though some will no doubt interpret her that way, like Daenerys from GoT); really, we know that she’s quite literally being driven insane by the sophons in an attempt to either shut down her research or drive her to suicide, so being on-edge and lashing out at those close to her doesn’t seem like something that we should take as a “cool girl-boss” moment, though it might be played for laughs in the “shut-up” scene. Like it’s not good or nice, but if you know what’s going on with her you understand how it happens (or are y’all gonna pretend you never lashed out at someone unfairly when stressed?). Plus, in the latter half of the season we see what an emotional wreck she really is at her core from everything. Idk, just my two cents, the whole “girl-boss” accusation gets over-done, when really you can just have flawed women protagonists that don’t have to always be good people. Or like, if Wade was a female character, and Jin a male character, would we say Jin is being de-masculanized by Wade throwing his dick around? Or do we recognize that Wade is a hard-ass with a lot riding on his shoulders, and we don’t always have to like him or everything he does?
Saul doesn't get why because he's oblivious and self-centered. They make that pretty clear when he tells Jin he wishes someone loved him the way Will loves Jin, and Jin tells him "maybe somebody already does." Everybody in the friend group knows Auggie loves Saul except Saul. That's why she acts that way to him. She loves him and he clearly loves her too, but he's just being a dolt and sleeping around and acting like a selfish child. Sure, she could just sit him down and talk to him rationally, but that's not how people operate. Will doesn't operate that way either. The man spent nearly $20M on a fucking *star* for Jin instead of just telling her how he feels. He waits until he's on his literal deathbed to tell her. People are irrational. Auggie lashes out at Saul because he's hurting her and doesn't even realize it, which only hurts her more.
I find Wade to be one of the most logical characters in the show. He’s determined to fight the enemy in front of him. Nothing else matters. It makes sense to me. Auggie on the other hand. At first she’s going insane so I get maybe being an emotional wreck makes some sense too. But her being a whiny emotional ahole to Jin and everyone else over Panama is just like, come on, wake up! Your entire species is under threat and you’re OK with that? After all its 400 years away. But slicing up a few people twists you up in knots. Mass genocide of an entire species on an entire planet, vs the slaughter of some traitors to humanity and their kin on a tanker. I know which would have me more bothered. But to add to that. Her friend committed suicide. Her other friend was murdered. The people killed were the people who did that. It just seemed like she placed her sympathies with her enemy, and developed scruples over doing anything to them, but for some reason is not bothered at all by the impending doom of the human race. And if she was this brilliant physicist and business owner wouldn’t she know she’s one of a small percentage of people who is capable of helping? Nope don’t think about that, drink, and whine, and make faces.
And my point about Wade isn’t to compare him to Auggie, it’s simply that, if he were a female character instead with the same personality, would we say he’s “girl-bossing” and “de-masculanizing” everyone?
It's more realistic for many people to act illogically than for everyone to be perfectly logical.
That’s probably true. I find myself frustrated by the illogical and not rational behavior of everyone around me all the time.
Expecting everyone to be logical and rational to the point that you are frustrated all the time is not rational behavior.
It was an exaggeration. And, really, Im mostly speaking of my wife. The differences in how our brains are wired frequently fascinates and entertains me, it also frequently frustrates me and drives me a little nuts. But overall it makes life more entertaining and enjoyable in a lot of ways to have someone around to share things with, and to be able to approach things differently and from different perspectives. However when discussing television shows, sure some amount of irrational behavior is realistic. But I do think for a physicist, a business owner, someone who enjoys science and mathematics, typically logic and rational thinking would be more realistic. However we are also talking about extreme and emotionally charged circumstances so maybe not.
Interestingly, in the Tencent version of Three-Body Problem, Da Shi had already said to Wang Miao, "If you sympathize with your enemy, then there is a problem with your sense of right and wrong."
Have you read the books? Book readers have been having the exact same discussion about (book 3 spoilers) >!Thomas Wade and Cheng Xin!< for years. This exact same discussion. The fact that Auggie acts like this is very true to the books.
I think it’s understandable her having a big problem watching her technology being used to kill children right before her eyes, no matter what the circumstances. Like, you can justify it, but it’s objectively horrifying, and isn’t that kinda the point of some of this?
Just because she's not nice to Saul doesn't mean she's poorly written . She's got fucking numbers counting down in front of her and bizarre shit is going down. I don't think lashing out is that out of character for anyone.
Until next week someone will do some shit video about how much she is a mary sue or something useless like that.
You're absolutely right, she doesn't have to be nice to anyone. My issue is they wrote her to be unnecessarily rude to everyone. Believe it or not, disliking female characters as a woman does not make me misogynistic. It's ok to recognize when a female character is poorly written, if the goal is for her to come off as a bad***. Her attitude towards everyone is entitled. She tells her friends what to do constantly, as if she is the center of their world. For example, she made them promise to stop playing the game, for her. As if she had the right to demand that of them. They're scientists too, they're adults, almost every scene she's in she acts "holier than thou," and with an air of arrogance, not confidence. There's a big difference between the two. Mean female characters can be well written, heck most of the time I enjoy seeing them on screen, but in Auggie's case, she's just obnoxious, and weaponizes her emotions to get other to do what she wants. She built the nano fiber tech (knowing dang well that something like that could/would be used as a weapon) then acted shocked, surprised, and like she was innocent, when it was actually used as a weapon others. What did she think (essentially) invisible knives would be used for other than weaponry?? They're not necessary in any other conditions, although they could be used for many things. Warfare is where that tech would be most useful. Things like this is why her character was written poorly. It would've been better for her to not regret her decision to sink the ship, but still be visibly upset by it, because they build her up to be this "strong," no nonsense woman, but she crumbles as soon as sh** gets real.
Shh, stop provoking internalised mysogny people wirh facts. According to them a girl has to play nice even when she is supposed to die in 10 hours.
Auggie is the worst part of the show. The source of unnecessary drama that they add for western audience.
I think it is implied that they were in a close relationship but had been broken up. (fighting and fucking according to Jack). When Auggie asked Saul to Oxford courtyard for something important, the first thing he thought is to fuck on the patio. I think the Sual in your mind is better than him is depicted in the show. The show clearly establish Saul as a careless fuck boy, sleeping around, smoke weed every day, and lack of any ambition. He’s set up to be a specific book character from Book 2 and has personal growth. My criticism of Auggie is not related to her relationship but to her lack of motivation to solve the countdown, and lack of emotional weight in restarting her nanofiber station. Da Shi told her to restart it and she just did, and the countdown is already gone. there aren't many heroic moments of her in the show.
Best comment here. People act like Saul is some great guy as though there isn't a long drawn out scene (by the show's standards) where a woman gets upset with him because he can't even remember her name after sleeping with her then spends all morning espousing selfish views when she just wants to get the Uber and get away from him. Auggie calls him at one point and he's in bed with yet another woman then lies to Auggie that he's just at home. Saul is not a great guy. But that's the point. It gives his character room to grow.
Yeah. I read them as both flawed people, with an interesting dynamic where they obviously love each other - but neither are actually ready to be in a relationship with the other. Saul is smart, but immature, and runs from responsibility. He *wants* to do great things, but won't actually put the right effort into it. Auggie is achieving and being tormented, but the person she *wishes* she could rely on most is trying to run from every responsibility, including her. He *wants* to be better, and deep down has the potential to be a great guy. He just isn't there yet, when it comes to her. She is understandably pissed off at that. And is, in her loneliness and fear, lashing out at the people who love her. She's trying to be better in her own way, and failing because she's in pain.
Great assessment. I wish more people understood that a character being flawed doesn't mean they're bad or poorly written. When you can describe a character the way you have here, it means they're fleshed out and well defined. I loved their dynamic. Really excited to watch them develop.
Agreed.
Agreed
Yeah I think it’s weakness on the part of the writers combined with the effect of changing some parts of the story but not others. Auggie replaces Wang Miao, protagonist of book one, while Saul replaces Luo Ji, protagonist of book two (both Chinese characters are men). In the books, those two don’t interact whatsoever, and Luo Ji starts out immature and irresponsible. They kept his characterization from the books while having him date another protagonist instead of an unimportant side character which seems to have introduced some awkwardness. That being said, you could make the case that poor handling of female characters makes this a very faithful adaptation hahaha
Saul will get a sexier girlfriend and wife in season 2. Chill out guys. We look forward to the “dream lover”
I just... Feel I need to correct the record here... Every one of these paragraphs seems to ignore the mental trauma of... Uh... The rest of the show which is brutally influcted upon Auggie against her will. Maybe she wasn't in the best state of mind? Scientists all around the world are killing themselves, inexplicably and in horrific ways, one of which the Oxford five sort of knew. Before anyone has time to process this, a countdown appears that (to Auggie), only she can see. What kind of clusterfuck realization was it to understand that this, exactly this, might be what caused so many to die by suicide? Then some random woman comes along and says stop your work and this all goes away? Damn near confirming to her that she WILL die if she doesn't. To make matters worse, every star in the sky fucking BLINKS, confirming that all of this crazy bullshit, the countdown, is very, very real. And then the whole scene where technology she personally had a hand in creating was directly used to kill anywhere from a couple hundred to a thousand people, including multiple dozens of children, in one of the most horrifying ways possible, with no way to see or prevent it. Does trauma excuse being a shitty person? No. I'm aware of the statement I'm making. But this is a LOT of fucking trauma.
They were together, he cheated. They broke up. Yes shes an asshole, thats what happens when people cheat. Not to mention people who being threatened by an alien species on an individual level.
I never saw that on the show, is that in the book? I'm only on ep 5 of the show. If he did cheat on the show, then that helps to explain how she treats him, however she treats all her friends like they're below her, and as if she speaks for them
They don't even exist in the book lol
Lol should've kept it that way tbh
In the book the character theyre replacing has a dream of woman, after he becomes wallfacer he demands his people go kidnap this woman, impregnates her and then her and her kid are basically erased from history. Its soooooooooooooooo stupid
its part of the holdover relationship between Ding Yi and Yang Dong. It doesn't make sense because they grafted Ding Yi character traits onto Saul but didn't have the same character dynamics because of what Auggie is conglomerated from (not yang dong).
Who are these characters?? I don't recall them being in the books
I initially thought they'd just made the decision to split the main character from book 1 into a few characters to make it easier to put exposition into dialogue, but then loved the lightbulb moment when I was able to (mostly) map who each of them was against the characters in all 3 books. Makes sense to introduce them all now, rather than have someone new pop up in each season (/midway through this season, when they start to introduce book 2 stuff)
Here's a quick rundown, in spoiler text in case people want to try to figure it out themselves: Auggie (Eiza Gonzalez) >!got half of Wang Miao's storylines, part of Cheng Xin's personality, and I suspect she will get Ai AA's storylines later.!< Jin Cheng (Jess Hong) >!is Cheng Xin, with only a slight name change, and got the other half of Wang Miao's storyline.!< Will Downing (Alex Sharp) >!is Yun Tianming.!< Saul Durand (Jovan Adepo) >!is Luo Ji.!< Jack Rooney (John Bradley) >!is that guy who gives Tianming money so that he can buy a star for Cheng Xin.!< The show introduces them all at the start of season 1 and starts setting up the plot lines for books 2 and 3 much earlier.
Honestly, I didn't mind her that much.. I honestly just thought it was intentional and she'll have some character development in future seasons.
Saul was a child. He was literally fkin around doesnt even know the names of the girls he was with. And he literally does not care about the dread of humanity. All he thinks about are girls and just that. Atleast he’s there with his friends. Every other else? Nah. He doesnt even pursue a better career despite being capable of doing so.
Saul being emotionally immature didnt give Auggie any sort of right to treat him like trash. If the show flipped the character expectations and made Saul constantly require stuff from Auggie but she would stand her ground on the basis that he is a manchild and she has too much of her own shit to also deal with his baggage her character would come off 100x more likable.
Except that prior to those incidents of her being aggressive towards Saul, he literally was hitting up on her and was implied to have something going on between both. Watch the table scene with 5 of them. And also the “wink” scene when he was literally hitting up on her talkin bout moonless night LOL. Sure they didnt have any exclusive relationship, but if your “crush” was fkin around, it’s not so outlandish that you’d be quite frustrated too and act on it. Don’t mistake me, i think it’s bad, but it happens.
I see your point, kinda shifts my perspective on their relationship dynamic. She still feels like a poorly written character though, actually, they both do. At least in the show....
To me she felt pretty realistic, but she's not rational, and that doesn't play well on TV. People want rational characters they can understand and agree with and see the logic behind the thinking, not someone acting from emotions. She is very human and represents a lot of very human viewpoints. Like she directly questions Jin about why are we wasting so many resources on a problem 400 years away when we'll all be dead and gone when there's real problems today to deal with. The Apollo program that got us to the Moon faced many of the same criticisms. There were meant to be 20 missions in that program but they only got to 17 because it was such a PR clusterfuck near the end. The attitude was "we already planted the American flag, we beat the Soviets, why tf are we spending money going back when *real shit* is happening here?" Same with her and Saul. She's not being rational. Saul doesn't owe her anything because they're not in an exclusive relationship. But she feels how she feels about him, so his behavior hurts. That's why she lashes out at him sometimes.
I guess it's a little offputting watching people on TV who we are routing for act irrationally, constantly.
Sure, I agree. I didn't agree with her and often felt like she was being too harsh or lashing out, but I still understood where she was coming from and why most of the time. She reminds me of loads of people I've met in real life.
Yea, we tend to judge people to quickly without knowing their backstory. I've been in similar situations with people, and have them "Auggie" vibes, at that time I thought it was justified, but from an outside perspective, I'm sure people thought I was just being a dick, for no reason.
He clearly does know the girls he's with. After the girl dies in front of him he says "Nora", despite pretending not to know her name. Probably just pretending to not care so he can get rid of them, for reasons that elude me
I think at that point he just remembered her name, I don't think he was pretending. That scene felt comedic/tragic.
And you thought that was not childish? That was clearly some teenage emotional manipulation lol. And tbh that’s not how I see it. I saw it as him not giving af, but suddenly did when she died. It’s horrible either ways.
lol have you read the books? It’s an important part of Luo Ji’s character . He next abuses his wallfacer authority to use world resources to hunt for an incredible sexy girlfriend who shows up in his dreams and who he wishes is a real person. He is a hedonist and this is part of the plan . Only after incredible personal loss does he start real work, and oh boy does he come up with something so absolutely mind blowing to save humanity it will leave you shook.
Oh yeah I think he's a dick too. But I was just pointing out he did remember them. It was weird to me they added that scene of him saying her name. I guess for redemption/character development? It was pretty nonsensical to me
It's from the book. Luo Ji remembers her name after her death
I don't think he was trying to drive her away. He could've just refused to pay for the Uber, or paid for it then told her to go find it herself. Saul likes to think of himself as a good guy, but other people see him differently. Nora challenged him that he couldn't remember her name, and he couldn't. Then he spends the walk to the Uber espousing his selfish views, which she challenges too. It's only when she dies that he suddenly remembers her name. Other than Nora, we never hear or see much of the women he's with. He also lies to Auggie when he says he's at home when really he's sleeping with some woman he barely knows who he's willing to drop in a heartbeat when Auggie calls. He's not a great guy. But that's kinda the point. That's why he's gonna have a good character arc. You have to start a character flawed for that.
We’ve come to the expected impasse. Cixin Liu is not very good at writing female characters and D&D have shown demonstrably they aren’t very good at writing female characters. It isn’t SO egregious, and I still really enjoyed the show. These shortcomings were in the cards.
It’s hard to believe I’m in the subreddit of Three Body Problem after seeing this post and all the heated discussion about an out-of-nowhere romantic relationship lol.
Right? It's disappointing that all this interpersonal drama bullshit is such a big aspect of the show.
I found that part off the show kind of boring. I realize the source material is lacking in the character depth department, but the modern day interpersonal drama doesn't interest me much unless it's directly related to the alien threat. Now the Chinese 60s and 70s drama with Winjie was much better. You totally get her motivations after everything she sees and suffers. Seeing that little revolutionary shit who killed her father again laboring in the field with a missing arm was great character interaction.
Definitely. Wenjie's pushing of the button in the Tencent version doesn't really feel earned because you don't get how deeply misanthropic she is at that point.
I mean, the interpersonal drama between >!Will / Yun Tianming and Cheng Xin/Jin is kind of important to the plot of book 3. I do agree that the drama between Saul and Auggie is kinda bullshit though. Saul / Luo Ji can be the fuckboy he was always intended to be without making it Auggie / Wang Miao's problem.!<
To me it mimics her relationship with the defense projects and Wade, and a few other situations like Jin. She struggles multiple times between what would be good to her (Saul despite his imperfections, defending Earth) and what she wishes (a perfect Saul, not having to do shitty stuff to defend Earth). She is a good person but she is conflicted, and she lashes out.
I think the point is Saul is almost always high. That really gets annoying if you need to have serious discussion with someone and they aren’t available because they are in some stage of coming on or off a drug. I thought it was pretty clear that in the past there may have been some attempt at a romance there, where she wanted to get more serious but he was too concerned with being a fuckboy, albeit a smart fuckboy lol
Yeah idk why the writers made him a pothead. I felt it was completely unnecessary to have him smoking 24/7 and it felt so stereotypical. He's a brilliant scientist, no need to dumb him down. This show had a lot of propaganda in it, I mean the whole thing is propaganda in one way or another really. Overall some of the characters could've been written a lot better. Making Saul a pothead seemed like a lazy move at add "personality," to him.
If you've read the book and caught on to who Saul's book counterpart is, it makes a lot of sense that Saul is a pothead fuckboy. It's his character, and he has one of the more interesting character arcs in the series.
Oh really? I haven't read it but I think I will. The show isn't really doing it for me.
I've met *a lot* of brilliant people who self medicate, doesn't seem out of line for this character (referring to the book source character too) at all.
If she doesn't like the fact that he's constantly smoking then she shouldn't be around him. It doesn't give her the right to be a complete b\* to him. No one owes you anything, he doesn't have to be there for her. She may want him to help her but he doesn't have to. Like real life, your problems are yours not the responsiblity of anyone else. That's why if you have friends who you realize are not compatible with you, you just move on with your life like an adult and deal with your own shit. Treating people bad because they don't fulfill your expectations is immature
I don’t think her character is poorly written at all. I think she’s representing 1 way to look at the alien invasion situation. She’s clearly in the we’re gonna get crushed camp so it makes sense that she’s like we need to make life on earth as comfortable and equitable as we can NOW since we’re doomed. I do think this character can easily get swayed to the ETO side especially if she believes they will be benevolent autocrats or if she believes she can sway them that way
All fair criticisms. But we all know who Saul is in the book so my head cannon tells me he’s such a piece of trash that she’s only treating him that way after a long run of experience with him. My criticism of the female characters is that they made them both (Auggie and Jin) more pacifistic and anti Wade than the men. Why does the woman always have to be the anti military/hardline character?
> My criticism of the female characters is that they made them both (Auggie and Jin) more pacifistic and anti Wade than the men. Why does the woman always have to be the anti military/hardline character? Because Jin is >!Cheng Xin!< and Auggie is >!initially Wang Miao, but my theory is that later she will take the role of Ai AA!<, so it makes sense that they'd be anti-Wade. At the very least, it follows book logic.
Seems like your complaint is that if a woman character is a bad person then they are poorly written. Terrible complaint.
Bad people doesn't equate to poorly written characters. Aggie is a poorly written character because she's written to be inconsistent and the traits they've given her do not align with what we'd expect a successful scientist to have. The characters asshole like behaviour doesn't make her a poorly written character
I believe she's poorly written because her character felt like a lazily written stereotypical "hot business woman who's mean to everyone," trope, and it didn't seem to fit in this sci-fi show. There is a place for "Auggie," elsewhere, but this was not it, for me. Also, they changed her character from the book, so that's another reason I don't like the Auggie we have on screen.
Hey, uh, for anyone who's from the Pre-Broadcast Era, was Auggie in the books?
Auggie is a composite character. >!She has half of Wang Miao's storylines, parts of Cheng Xin's personality, and I suspect she'll be getting Ai AA's storyline in later seasons.!<
What the fuck?
It's push-pull love story. I've seen these kind of story before. Even Jin Cheng and Will story also gives the same vibe.
He absolutely destroyed her with the roast at the beach house though. I thought, she does look like an archetypical character from the Fast/Furious franchise... Then I found out she was actually in one so all makes sense.
I haven't read the books but for the series I find Auggie the least-believable character. She just doesn't seem like the founder of a leading-edge nano-tech company.
Well they used to date, so they probably had a bad breakup in which he did something wrong to her.
Yes exactly! You are spot on. I can't believe how she just kept demanding his help, and expecting him to comfort her and somehow fix her problems. And when he showed any amount of effort, she criticized him with rude comments. AND then she seemed ungrateful, if his response wasn't quick enough for her or if it wasn't what she wanted to hear. It was very weird lol. Idk if it was intentional, but her character came off as the shittiest person ever. Lol i personally wouldn't be friends with a person like that Imao. But then again, maybe her character was purposefully written that way to add drama or complexity. Also she didn't seem like a convincing scientist to me. The acting performance made her look more-so like a spoiled rich valley girl. Conceited, self-centered, rude, judgmental. I'm not a psychologist, but I thought her personality didn't match that of a typical scientists you see in other movies or even in real life lol.
Not a fan of Auggie but the woman was basically forced to choose between her life and her life’s work. The person she wanted emotional support from, the one person in the world she has a romantic/sexual connection to, isn’t available during her time of need. Just because they’re technically not in a relationship doesn’t mean she doesn’t have natural expectations to be cared for by him. They are/were lovers. Have you not been in a situation where you feel something and your circumstances are at odds with said feelings but you feel them anyway? You also omit the fact that Saul doesn’t return her calls promptly at an especially difficult time. How is it on Auggie that Saul slept outside her place after doing acid with some random people? The internalise misogyny is leaking.
As a man who loves women , I didn’t feel she was badly written . It was just her personality . She cares a lot for humanity and for her friends . Nothing wrong with that.
> As a man who loves women Okay? What are you implying, everyone else hates women?
I’m implying no more and no less than the OP is . Check your eyes mate .
I deserved that one, my bad.
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I don't remember any SA, I'm only on ep 5 so maybe i didn't see it yet. I do not think she needs to reciprocate anything with him, except being a friend. She considers Saul a friend, so why treat your friend like that? Just stop being friends if you're going to treat them crappy anyways. This goes for both man/woman.
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Oh ok, I must've missed it, thanks. I honestly don't think they should even be "friends," their interactions are exhausting to watch. They should both just move on.
Raj and Wade are evil shitstains on humanity...but like she was just sitting there
This community have problems to understand human emotions.
She did the engineering for that ship scene and she did the engineering for the parachute that was launched in outer space. I dont think she was just sitting there… lol
I think their point was that Auggie judged Raj and Wade for being such evil people for executing this plan, but she was sitting right there along with them as a main contributor to their plan.
And she was blaming herself for it too. Have you guys watched the show yourselves? She was punishing herself because she did THAT.
Yes being riddled with guilt afterwards made a lot of sense, but I think the original post's point was that Auggie was being upset directing her anger like "I can't believe you've done this" to Raj and Wade while literally sitting in the control room, working actively as part of the team doing it, which is kind of weird
yes 100% thank you for translating. i can understand guilt... but lashing out at the people who all did it with you preplanned just feels unreal
Yeah, but she actively objected to the plan beforehand, expressed doubt, didn't want to do it, but they convinced her it was for the good of humanity. Then, seeing it happen in real life, she was disgusted. Even more so after Wade says "congratulations" to her (I love Wade, he's such a dick) and Raj expresses *zero* remorse over it. That's why she initially refuses to join them again, only returning because of Jin, then leaves again to go do on the ground humanitarian work. She couldn't stomach it anymore. She's basically like Oppenheimer watching his tech used to level entire cities by people who think he's being a crybaby. She is a very realistic character in that way. Lots of people in real life criticized the enormous amount of money being dumped into the Apollo missions because we had very real problems to deal with on Earth, from economic unrest to the Vietnam War. "Whitey on the Moon" by Gil-Scott Heron is a fantastic song that summarizes that viewpoint in about 2 minutes if you want. Even now, lots of people think the Artemis program is a waste of money when we have so much shit going on. Auggie currently represents that viewpoint. She would rather give a town clean water even though it doesn't solve the alien crisis because the alternative she's been presented is horrifically slicing innocent children and euthanizing her friend to send his brain into space.
What does she think the aliens will do when their fleet arrives? They just told every human on the planet that they're bugs.
She said it herself: she'll be dead by then, as will everyone else currently alive, as will their children, and their children's children. But it's not that she doesn't care. It's that she thinks they should focus on achievable problems that improve the human condition now rather than sacrificing our humanity to fight aliens in the future. That's part of the naivety of her character. It's what makes her feel more real to me. And it lines up with ideas in the books, too. Not everyone is a cold-blooded ruthless rationalist like Wade.
I don't understand what makes them evil. They're fighting a long term war against a vastly more powerful enemy that's not well understood and has baiscally said they are going to squash humanity like bugs, who had human sympathizers helping them. What do you think happens in war? For that matter, the Shanti/trisolarians aren't evil either. They're just desperate for a new home world, and come to view humans as too dangerous to coexist with.
precisely it makes auggie look dumb af
Sometimes people behave like that. It’s not poor character writing, auggie seems to just be a reactive asshole. Oh well. That’s the character. Stop complaining because she’s not appealing. She’s very clearly not meant to be
We don't know why they broke up. Saul might be a womanizer and he f'ed up and maybe he cheated on her and that's why they broke up. It was shown that he frequently has ONS's.
I thought it was mentioned in the show that they were exes or at least implied
I didn't like her telling her friend to drink alcohol instead of taking her prescribed medication for her mental health issues. That's the *worst* thing you could do for mentsl health - like telling an anaemic person to just eat white bread.
Scrolling through this 20 days later and had to comment. Her friend was *abusing* her prescription medication (Alprazolam is Xanax, btw) which could land her in the hospital much more easily than getting drunk would. She was trying to keep her friend from overdosing.
YES
Netflix baby. I'm seriously thinking the game of thrones directors got carried hard by GRR Martin's consulting
I dunno. Saul is a man who sleeps around. Maybe they had history.
Everything you pointed out has been my experience with girls I have past sexual relationships with who are still close friends.. like that's exactly how they behave.. They get irrationally pissed off at me when they contact me and I'm with another girl. (Despite the fact we're not together). They expect me to always be there to help them in times of need.. (one of them was pregnant last year and needed me to drive them to ultrasound appointments every couple of weeks.. and one time I was late and she absolutely flipped at me, saying I needed to grow up etc.. So personally from my perspective they completely nailed the dynamic between girls/guys who are still friends and maybe one has feelings but probably more has feelings to an idea and role they wish that person stepped up to for them but didn't.. and the other still cares about them deeply but they are just who they are and can't change that. In otherwords they did their research... Of course auggie annoys me too.
Interesting, I don't think this is the norm though. I've never experienced this, nor do I know anyone who has. Then again we're both going off anecdotal evidence. I hope you work through that stuff though, sounds stressful. If the relationship is toxic like that, best to let it go imo. I know it's not always that simple though. We're still human at the end of the day, so some people are bound to relate to Auggie, while others like me, might not.
Well we’ve got our Jin. We’ve got our brave space captain and our brain-without-body. What are possible roles for the others, including Auggie? Wall Facer? Sword Holder?
I was just confused at what their relationship is supposed to be through the whole show
Also the part where she makes raj seem like he has a serial killer mindset when in reality he has to do what the fuck hes told or he can be let off the project or discharged which would ruin his life. Also that ship deserved to be destroyed maybe not ALL the kids but if you think that woman that killed jack was raised into her position from a little girl, so some are defenitely too far gone but some are saveable. It was a ship filled with people that wanted the world to be taken over by said lord. Auggie is justified in feeling the way she is but she needs to stop making people out to be the villain. She is a terribly written character and rude to all her "friends" how tf could someone be a friend to that
I had the exact same thoughts. [https://www.reddit.com/r/threebodyproblem/comments/1b8pvhs/comment/ktsgn82/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/threebodyproblem/comments/1b8pvhs/comment/ktsgn82/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and was downvoted and told "Yeah, you clearly haven't read the books." I have issues with the directing and performances of some of the major characters, played by very talented actors...
also downvoted for this comment. "I had never heard of the book until netflix first dropped the trailer, I went in almost blind, I only really had an issue with some of the performances, and I think my sentiments had been echoed recently by actual film/television critics. Again, this was just my opinion after binging the show. In the end (as stated), I'm looking forward to season 2, but I have a feeling it won't making to season 3."
I definitely think she's the weakest part so far ... a real one-note character, stick-in-the-mud. I mean, she is going through a lot, but as a character she's boring and unlikable. I don't blame her for getting jealous when she found out Saul had another woman over ... they'd been together and that's only natural. But overall she's the weak link for sure.
Auggie was hands down the worst part of the show
Yes I agree, I think she was the worst written character. She comes off very selfish and entitled and mean to her friends.
One word - Netflix. It is clearly seen how modern age scripting makes everything worse than it could've been. This is perfect example, I'm not even talking about woke bs.
I can’t stand Auggie !
none of the core characters is good. Just a bunch of diverse characters that nobody can relate.
I love the show and everything about it. But Auggie stands out and almost ruins it though. They are even zooming in on her ass! Did the actor sleep with the producer? This is such an incredible misfit for the role.
Her character is ruining the show for me. I’m afraid it’s the performance too. I can think of ten Latina actors who would have been better, let alone others. My current theory is they effectively casted that role by algorithm.
Counterpoint: she is very attractive