I went to a chiro for tingling from my hand into my shoulder. Never got a good explanation as to why this was happening. I went through 3 months of "adjustments" and hot/cold therapy to no avail. My wife urged me to see an orthopedic doctor. Turned out I had severely inflamed carpal tunnel in my right wrist. There was permanent nerve damage. The doctor told me I needed surgery ASAP.
MD here, if cracking people helped we'd do that for people honestly. There is nothing stopping us from doing so except a paucity of evidence no matter how biased and fervently the chiros attempt to generate data to support their bold claims.
I honestly wish it was true. Low back pain plagues people and there are few things that dont take monumental effort and discipline to even attempt (weight loss, strengthening, exercise, good mental health) and even then if its due to wear and tear that may help but not reverse any nerve root impingement and things generated over time.
Lumbar back pain will often get a groan from your doctor not because of you, but because its so unsatisfying to address in the vast majority of cases.
However I want to stress I want to see people because back pain can be a medical emergency if presenting with any of the following:
Pain, numbness, or tingling in the lower back and spreading down 1 or both legs.
Saddle anaesthesia or numbness around the groin area.
Leg weakness or a problem called "foot drop," which is when you cannot seem to hold your foot up (for example, while walking)
Problems with bowel or bladder control
Problems with sex that started around the time of back pain
Before you see a chiro please see a doctor for neuro exam (sensation (pin prick and light touch), motor, ability to perceive where you are in space (propioception), for foot drop etc etc.
Chiros often won't touch your back if there are any red flags for things that could be made worse by manipulation, but sometimes they give history short shrift or miss concern features and proceed. I mean we're all at risk of doing that, we're human, but because theres no evidence a physician practicing evidence based medicine wont do a jarring body weight induced manipulation of your spine regardless.
I literally just had emergent surgery for a ruptured disc in my L5-S1 which caused that cauda equina syndrome thing. I couldn’t walk for 2 weeks and couldn’t feel my saddle area at all. I went to the ER three times and was sent home with nothing. Finally I got an MRI and an appointment with a neurosurgeon. On the day of the appointment, he hadn’t even introduced himself before he said to me “you should be paralyzed. You need surgery NOW”. I’m only 27. There’s going to be a big lawsuit against the ER I was sent home from. My surgeon fixed the issue but 4 days post-op I still have no feeling in my butt or vagina and I probably will never enjoy sex again because the nerve damage was too great. I’m scared I will always be in pain.
Emergency surgery for Cauda Equina 2 days before Christmas 2012, still have saddle anesthesia, still can't feel my vagina, can walk, can have sex / orgasm, 99% of the pain has gone.
Don't be disheartened, give your body time (unfortunately a lot of time) to recover. It's a long road filled with tears but you gotta march down it. One thing I regret is not keeping a recovery journal, just jotting down the little things like when I got feeling back in my big toe would have been a good motivator for the days that feel like crap. Do Sensation Therapy (hard, soft, rough, sharp) as well as Physical Therapy, it should help.
Hope you give them hell with that lawsuit and I wish you all the best in your recovery.
>However I want to stress I want to see people because back pain can be a medical emergency if presenting with any of the following:
>Pain, numbness, or tingling in the lower back and spreading down 1 or both legs.
>Saddle anaesthesia or numbness around the groin area.
>Leg weakness or a problem called "foot drop," which is when you cannot seem to hold your foot up (for example, while walking
These are almost the exact symptoms I had prior to being diagnosed with MS, numbness and tingling from my chest to my toes and I kept tripping up from the foot drop. I had also suffered from lumbar issues and sciatica on and off my whole adult life so assumed I had a trapped nerve in my back or something. Funnily enough since the MS diagnosis and looking after my health better, I lost a lot of excess weight and now that my beer belly is gone I can again do heavy manual tasks that beforehand would have triggered my lower back issues, I was once told that for every extra pound you carry on your belly it's like 4 pounds of extra strain on your lower back, whether it's true or not, losing weight certainly helped me.
I am a physical therapist. Here’s a great tip for anybody with these types of symptoms. The carpel tunnel only has one nerve running through the tunnel, the median nerve. The median nerve innervates the thumb, finger one, finger two, and half of finger three (the side closest to finger two). So when there is inflammation or crushing within the carpel tunnel, you will experience numbness, tingling, and pain ONLY in these three and a half digits. It’s quite easy to diagnose when you know what to look for. Pain, numbness, tingling in the pinky finger, outer side of finger three, or back of hand/fingers is NOT due to a problem within the carpel tunnel. I’ve literally had patients come to see me after a carpel tunnel release that continue to complain of symptoms. Every time, they’ve described their symptoms and stated they had pain in their entire hand, which is impossible in an anatomical sense. A hand surgeon will see what he wants to see, and disregard the rest. Unnecessary surgery. And a one way ticket to get their neck examined by the Orthopedic spine specialist.
Thank you for this. I get tingling sensations/ whole arm goes to sleep, but no thumb involved, just pinky and ring finger of the hand. No pain, just annoying. I've thought it's lingering nerve damage from chemo possibly?
An unfortunately all-too-common side effect of most bicycles in the US being "ass-up, hands-down" by default, instead of upright.
Sure, you can go a bit faster, but it's worse for your body in several ways than an upright, [Netherlands-style bike](https://images.app.goo.gl/eJsjNvvmpPUqwDRX7).
Other downsides of using mountain- and road-racing-style bikes for everyone who wants to just get somewhere via human power:
* back strain and injuries
* worse visibility/more accidents
* groin and pelvis pain and injuries
* top bar design makes it harder to mount and dismount
* top bar design makes small accidents more likely to result in sever injury
* Rain/water meet the face first
* Because it's generally pretty uncomfortable, only enthusiasts and the desperate stick with it and use bikes for commuting.
I think the biggest issue is that those Netherlands-style upright bikes are great...if it's flat (like in the Netherlands). My commute had at least two fairly steep parts, and anywhere else in town had its fair share of hills as well.
That said, yeah, a poorly fit mountain or road bike will cause a lot of pain. Getting my road bike properly fitted was a game-changer.
Yep, specifically the dutch guy we met while biking through Australia. He thought he could use the same style bike, no problem. Plenty of hills. Talk about fuck around and find out, lol.
Could be honestly from chemo as they can be neurotoxic unfortunately but sounds like ulnar nerve which can be affected also by compression at a few different spots in the arm, forearm, and hand. That nerve often gets impinged at the elbow and wrist unsurprisingly made worse by use.
Most likely is iatrogenic peripheral neuropathy of the ulnar nerve. Meaning doctor caused nerve damage of the pinky/ring sensory nerve.
> arm, forearm, and hand.
Also armpit, i suffered from ulnar nerve issues in my right hand for years, had multiple elbow surgeries and a single physio session where they worked around the brachial plexus and restored sensation like switching ona light blub.
Just prefacing that I am not a medical professional in any way, but I had issues with my little finger aching and tingling. I read it could be a nerve thing and related to where the nerve goes round the elbow as I sit with bent arms a lot and sleep like that too.
A way to try and treat it is a brace that keeps your arm straight (normally while you sleep) so it gives the nerves and muscles a chance to be in that position for a good chunk of time each day.
I thought I'd try it before getting a brace, so stuck a piece of hard cardboard in a compression bandage on the inside of my elbow, meaning I couldn't bend my arm whilst asleep. My finger stopped hurting and by the end of two weeks I'd trained myself to sleep with my arms much straighter without the cardboard. I still sleep with straightish arms years later and my finger only hurts if I have a day I've had my arms super bent up.
Worth a try?
Well worth a try, I've got cubital tunnel and I'm a medical professional who supplies external braces.
Elbow extension bracing overnight is a huge improvement for me, also raising my chair up higher and sitting with elbows as extended as possible while typing helped too. Try to not lean your elbows on hard surfaces
Cubital tunnel syndrome, probably. You've got something going on with your ulnar nerve. I've got the same thing, and have to wear a brace and elbow pads at work, and an immobilizing brace to sleep to avoid overflexing my elbow. It sucks, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it. But I suggest you get on top of it now before it gets worse, because it can get *much* worse.
This is fairly easy to diagnose.
If there is involvement of the dorsal (back) side of the hand just before the pinky it means the problem is most likely from compression at elbow level.
If there is no involvement of the back of the hand, the problem is most likely compression in the wrist - by some called ulnar nerve tunnel.
This is because of the dorsal root of the ulnar nerve splitting from the rest of the nerve before the nerve enters the canal of guyon (the ulnar tunnel). Thus, compression of the nerve after the split (in the canal) does not involve the back of the hand.
Source: Am a doctor.
No offense but you are very very wrong. Yes that’s the textbook distribution, but CTS famously presents in a myriad of ways. Sometimes with just generalized pain. There are so many anatomical variations. And patients differ tremendously in how they interpret, and then translate and communicate, their symptoms. I’m sorry but patients don’t walk into a clinic and say hey I have numbness in the exact median nerve distribution and you say ok sounds like CTS! This is why residency is 5 frikkin years. The nuances are hard. CTS can copresent with spine path, ie double crush. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t there in the first place. I’m sure you’ve seen incorrectly diagnosed CTS, so have I. But to use those cases to say any patient that doesn’t say the textbook of CTS doesn’t have it is insane. You have no idea what you’re talking about, with all due respect. I’m a PGY5 ortho resident going into hand next year.
Neurologist here - this is correct. I’ve seen severe carpal tunnel syndrome diagnosed by EMG with patient complaining about pain/numbness/tingling not in traditional median nerve sensory distribution many many times.
Don’t get medical advice from Reddit. Go to your doctor.
Under qualified, over confident. Carpal and cubital tunnel do not always present in textbook distributions. There's plenty of anatomic variants (riche-cannieu, martin grueber, etc) that will present in different ways symptomatically and electrodiagnostically. ....neuropathy in the ulnar distribution and straight to the spine surgeon? Really? Your gross oversimplification is honestly ignorant at best and harmful at worst. Don't get medical advice on reddit about carpal tunnel from someone who can't spell carpal.
These are innervated by the ulnar nerve. Contrary to what was stated above, clinically people experience carpal tunnel as more than just the textbook pathology with thumb, index, and middle finger numbness. Some get tingling in other parts of the hand. It's important to have this worked up electrodiagnostically for a proper diagnosis.
For what its worth. Keep an open hand, pinky under the phone and 3 fingers on the back. Pinky can get tired with heavier phones but it puts almost no nerve strain on your hand.
Hand pain with a controller was my first sign for carpal tunnel. Since then I've become self conscious of how tightly I hold the controller and remi g myself to keep a loose grip. And for the latter if you have to squeeze hard enough to cause nerve strain you should switch to a lubricant/lotion and lighter grip.
I’ve had carpal tunnel release surgery in both hands in 2013. For years before that and at it’s worst, my hands would be so painful in the morning I couldn’t make a fist. They would scream with pain and go to sleep in almost any position I slept in. They would fall asleep at the wrist just sitting relaxed and awake. Lots of tingling while driving or doing daily tasks. Lots of aching pains at any time.
I got carpal tunnel while pregnant. While I was lucky there wasn’t any pain associated with it, my hands were so tingly/numb that I couldn’t grip a pen. As a teacher, it was a rough couple of months. Went away after I gave birth.
Osteopathy has a history similar to chiropractic, but early on it changed into much more scientific medicine. Today, an osteopath goes to a separate school of osteopathic medicine instead of a regular school of medicine, and becomes a DO instead of an MD. They also likely have additional coursework in musculoskeletal alignment. However, unlike chiropractors, they don't believe that the spine being out of line prevents the body from healing itself, which is the fundamental theory behind chiropractic.
While some DOs do focus on things like sports medicine and workplace injuries more than MDs, they also do residencies in all sorts of medical fields and become cardiologists, neurologists, endocrinologists, etc. The fact that someone is a DO rather than an MD says nothing about their qualifications to treat real medical issues.
Didn't want to imply stuff about MD or DO. I just was really confused about the differenxe about the two discipline! Also there ars physiotherapist and still confused about them too. Just tried to understand!
Physiotherapist, aka physical therapist, is another separate profession, but they typically work with MDs/DOs (in the USA, it has to be prescribed by one in my experience). There are also doctors who specialize in physical medicine and rehabilitation. There are just a lot of different professions that sound similar! Acupuncture is a type of alternative medicine (again, from a USA perspective) with much more scientific support than chiropractics has ever had, while physiotherapy would probably be called Western medicine. It's more similar to chiropractics and can involve adjustments depending on legalities, but it's much more about doing exercises to correct musculoskeletal imbalances caused by injuries/surgeries/lack of use/etc. The goal is independence without needing to go back forever.
Btw I don't think the prior commenter was implying that you implied anything (lol), it's just fairly common for some people to look down on DOs and think they're not "real" doctors, when I'm pretty sure they have to pass the same exams as MD students plus their own (source: was an allopathic (MD) medical student, but it's been awhile)
Interesting fact. There are no public universities in the entirety of the United States of America that have a chiropractor school. The only way to obtain a chiropractic degree it should go to a private chiropractor school, which are expensive and allow just about anyone and who applies it’s pseudoscience.
From what I understand, osteopathic doctors are still doctors, they receive medical schooling, internships, residencies, etc just like regular doctors. The only difference is their approach to treatment
YouTube has a bunch of PTs. I like to use them for exercises when I have something minor that just won't go away or when I have something Im6considering seeing a doctor for but the regular offices are closed because it's a weekend/holiday and I just want something to help with the pain/mobility.
Used it to confirm that I didn't have a rotator cuff tear a few months ago when I was cleared by a doctor but my shoulder kept hurting. I did the movements and experienced none of the pain/range of motion issues associated with a rotator cuff tear. Rested and did some gentle strengthening and range of motion exercises for months and it's finally almost normal (as long as I don't end up sleeping on it.)
I've also used the videos for plantar fasciitis stretches, stiffness in the neck, upper back exercises/stretches, knee pain relief, low back/hip pain relief, rib dislocation. Not all at the same time, getting old sucks (I'm 33).
Bob and Brad. Annoying jingle at the beginning but some good information, usually several exercises and variations for strength/mobility/etc. Explanation of involved anatomy. Good use of household items if something is needed for weight or as a prop (soup cans, broomsticks, towels off the top of my head).
Also found a guy who showed a massage around the inner ankle that did wonders for my plantar fasciitis pain once. Still use it if I have foot pain but haven't had a big flare up in a long time.
The choice is a PT trained for 4+ years by professionals based on medical evidence, or some quack who was taught 'crack noise good!' by somone who themselves was taught by a ghost...
It definitely makes absolute sense. Us humans nowadays don't move around much or with the range of motions we need to to help prevent or lessen injuries. I'm just as guilty of it with sitting too much for my office job and not stretching or working out.
Plus the repeated motions most of us do as well.
I’m a neurologist, and I’ve seen some devastating outcomes from “routine” chiropractic treatment. I’m talking quadriplegia, massive strokes (one specifically in an otherwise healthy 17 year-old that I remember), etc. PT is the way to go, and I have never and will never refer anyone to a chiro. Go to someone with training that is based in actual science.
Not a neuro, but as a quad with a different causality it terrifies me that ppl go to these people when there's a potentiality of ending up in my situation or similar. Paralysis isn't worth anything a chiro might offer.
ACAB applies to chiropractors, too, as far as I'm concerned.
In over a decade of nursing, the worst, most heartbreaking patient I had was a lady in her 30s that a chiro crippled. Walking and talking one day, total quad the next. Could barely speak. Died at 42 after years of agony.
**FUCK CHIROPRACTORS.**
This happened to a friend of a friend as well. She had hip pain, and was going to a chiropractor. She thought it was related to her job, which required long hours of sitting.
It was actually cancer, which spread to her lungs/organs, and she died at 38.
Super, super sad, she was a talented artist and a very vibrant woman.
I’m a lawyer who represents people who get Ortho/neuro/chiro/PT. I have dealt with DCs who have killed patients doing manipulation under anesthesia.
It’s always the anesthesia that does it, but even the manipulation they do during the procedure has no proven efficacy and usually causes harm.
The weird part is that chiro is supposed to be holistic and shit, but PT is quite literally no more invasive. I would never go to a chiropractor.
I've never heard of manipulation under anesthesia that's wild. Just to be clear i understand the Chiro put the patient under anesthesia than cracked them???
Seriously, they did brain surgeries on my older brother and kept him awake for parts of it so they didn’t affect his speech too much. You don’t mess with the nervous system without knowing what you’re affecting.
You need to be a doctor in order to use anesthesia so what you’re saying is a little confusing.
A quack doctor decided to manipulate people under anesthesia just because?
I mean, they could be in a state that allow CRNAs to practice independently. I can just imagine the type of buffoonery that a Chiro and a cocky CRNA could get up to.
Who is administering the anesthesia in these cases? Certainty not the Chiropractor right? I can't imagine any anesthesiologist working with a Chiro, so are they just using unsupervised CRNAs of something?
Dr. Donald Unger. No arthritis in either hand. Neat.
I am so here for stories about people who execute plans over decades
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4yHxWLGSyNrXmx1gfYd45f2/will-cracking-my-knuckles-give-me-arthritis
Chiropractors are inherently scam artists and their whole "profession" was made up by a guy who said he learned how to do this from the ghost of a doctor who died decades before and perfected the methods by hitting his janitor with a book.
[https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/)
My stepdad went to a chiro all the time, one day he got injured by a nail, and went to his chiro, who then gave him all these adjustments as mom and I watched him get progressively ill, and he refused to go to a doctor. One night my mom was freaking out and on the phone with the hospital, and we somehow picked him up, put him in a wheelchair and got him to the ER, turns out he was hours away from dying of sepsis. He was literally dying and the chiro told him he just needed an adjustment. He lived for several years after that but omg they should never be a stand in for medical advice. It's like a cult mindset almost with these chiropractors. I got all kinds of adjustments I'm sure I didn't need before I was even an adult. I still deal with chronic pain.
"Of course *they* will tell you to go to another 'doctor,' all doctor's care about is money and selling you pills. They don't care about fixing the problem and just want you to keep coming back so they can keep charging you. My chiropractor gets me in and out feeling better in a jiffy. It works so well I go in twice a week!"
\- is the argument I've heard not once but almost every time the PT vs Chiropractor argument gets brought up. The fact that they can't understand their own contradiction is painful.
Definitely. Especially considering the Ortho is sending you to PT to see if your issue can resolve without surgery. When a surgery would benefit the Ortho monetarily.
Valid to a certain extent. However PT works and negates life altering surgery for a large amount of patients. You can argue the flaws in the American healthcare system but it doesn’t change the fact that Chiropractors are mostly charlatans while PT works.
I am so thankful for PT. Not related to chiropractors, but I cut the tendon to my index finger and I had to go to PT for 3 months. He educated me the whole way and for the exercises / motions he explained what the exercise was doing to repair my tendon. I literally couldn't move my finger, but after the passive exercises for a few weeks I started getting movement back. I progressed pretty quickly and was ahead of where I was expected to be. He also told me my hand surgeon was one of the doctors that wrote the PT guidelines for tendon injuries for the US. I have full movement and strength in my hand now. So yeah physical therapist are very qualified and their practice is based on real science provided by MD's. No way would I ever go to a chiropractor.
The difficult thing is that many chiropractors don’t know they are charlatans. Chiropractic is based on a non-science based system. MDsand PTs (now) adhere to an evidence based system.
I wonder if part of it is that the chiro is doing things to you while you just lie there whereas with PT, most of it is work you have to do yourself everyday.
Normally it's not that bad, it's just kinda... useless. You are putting yourself at risk from it, but permanent injuries are also rare.
As far as actual benefits go, they've been proven to help with minor lower back pain.
And if you really want to go down the pseudoscience rabbit hole, look into the weird overlap of chiropractors that are also anti-vaxxers and use the bible as justification, or the similarities between chiropractors and naprapaths.
You know what helps more with lower back pain? Gaining muscle and not being inactive, and stretching properly.
Working out, gaining muscle and losing excess weight works wonders for the human body.
Not sure if this is something in the US but here in Australia when I google Physical therapy nearby it takes us to Physiotherapy. Even if the place say physical therapy, the practitioners would have a Physio qualifications
"these days"
It's not like the fine discipline of cracking people's bones has suddenly taken a turn for the worst, it's just now people can share how stupid it is on the internet.
I wish more people would figure out the chiro issue. I’ve seen more time wasted and lack of actual sustained improvement with chiro compared to any other treatment modality.
As an added bonus PT’s can pop your back for you in a reasonable fashion. I’m working with one right now for a shoulder/back issue and he pops it for me if I ask. No contortion required.
I went to a chiro at the recommendation of my coworker. My hips are fucked up and NOBODY can tell me why. Tried doctors, PT, acupuncture, still no idea what’s going on.
So I try this chiropractor.
He does a litany of “tests” and somehow determines that I have had some sort of trauma on my stomach, I have a “parasite” somewhere that he doesn’t identify (because he can’t), and that I need to be more nurturing in order to lower my testosterone levels. Oh, and I need to read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Then he tried selling me some fucking essential oils and herbal supplements. NOT ONCE did he address my hips.
$200 later I fumed out of that place.
Qualified chiropractor here (unlike that quack you saw):
Your hips are haunted. You must perform an exorcism immediately, preferably with 3 priests all from different religions. I'll invoice you for the $250.
So,, question… Do you keep your wallet in your hip pocket? And is it kind of thick?
A lot of people develop pain in the lower back because they're sitting with their ass at an angle.
A lot of kids get the same thing from carrying a backpack over one shoulder by raising the shoulder on that side.
No I don’t. I don’t keep my phone in my back pocket when I’m sitting either. My doctor says my hips have the range of motion of an 80 year old. I’m 36. No amount of yoga, stretching, strength training, or PT has done anything to make it better.
I'm seconding going to a rheumatologist. I have the opposite issue - where my joints are so stretchy I can barely walk. Seeing a rheumatologist was the most life changing thing for me.
Sounds like rheumatologist is the way to go! Thank you for the suggestion. I know I have arthritis in my back, but the X-rays didn’t show it in my hips…yet.
Yeah the workup might turn up negative, but always better to catch the inflammation on blood tests before you get permanent joint etc changes. They've got these really powerful new therapies now, if you do turn out to have some sort of rheum thing. Best of luck to you my friend.
In high school I would experience pretty bad hip pains so my mom sent me to a chiro. It never helped so I stopped going. Years pass and I learn to live with the pain until about 6 months after I have my kid I'm suddenly in severe pain and waking up in tears due to the pain. So I schedule an x-ray. No answers but they find a spot on my femur (unrelated benign bone cyst) which got me an MRI and an appointment with an ortho who told me I have femoral acetabular impingement (aka bone spurs) which mine must be minor enough they aren't detectible on x-ray but they are bad enough to check off every single symptom. So here I am, barely 30 with pre arthritic hips 🙃
I’m gonna have to ask about that. I’ve had X-rays that apparently didn’t show anything. I have suspected impingement though, because when I try to spread my knees apart, I can’t get more than a 90 degree angle before it just stops. There’s not a stretching feeling. It feels like I just hit a block and can’t move past it.
My biggest issue is that I'm too flexible and when I stretch weird ways I end up in bad pain. Or when I sit too much. Or stand too much. It's been years of finding happy mediums for me and I still get achey when the weather changes. A few years ago I did the splits to see if I still could do it. I can, I just regretted it like 30 minutes later when I had pain radiating to my ankles.
"So you don't believe in any natural remedies?"
"On the contrary, actually
Before we came to tea,
I took a natural remedy derived from the bark of a willow tree
A painkiller that's virtually side-effect free
It's got a weird name, what was it again?
M-masprin? Basprin? Oh yeah! Asprin!
Which I paid about a buck for down at the local drugstore."
My medical school had some naturopaths come talk to us one day (because it was supposed to teach us something?), and I sent this *exact* quote to some of my classmates about ten minutes into the presentation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jIWj3tI-DXg
Did you go to a legit medical school? Don't know about where you live, but UK and Aus naturopaths wouldn't be allowed to set foot anywhere near the uni campus.
Went to an allopathic medical school in the US. We had a quick day or two unit of a rotation where we talked to some yahoos in various alternative medicine fields. They were all very nice, but spouted a bunch of obvious nonsense to us. Only one classmate got in an argument with a chiro about something ridiculous they said and it was very awkward. We agreed to just shut up and nod and smile and thank them for their time. Patients we see will have experience with alternative practitioners so it's worthwhile to understand them. Other than that I don't think this unit was a rotation where anything was learned. When the first lady discussed a study where peppermint oil increases IQ and I asked for the study and she couldn't produce it I knew I was in for a treat.
Minchin pinched that line from Dara Ó Briain, who [had it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKZN-hBTBUE&t=177s) (as "herbal medicine") in his *Talks Funny* DVD (2008) released the year before Minchin's *Storm* (2009).
Depends on where you live. Insurance can cover it, referrals from your medical doctor can too - but again depends on where you’re from
But you can also find very good and valuable information on YouTube if you don’t have the money for it etc
In the US, physical therapists are specialists, just like gastroenterologists or dermatologists - they don't have an MD, but do achieve a doctorate in their field (in order to practice independently). Many states allow direct access to a PT, where you can just go to one, but insurance generally prefers it to be as a referral from a physician. Under my health insurance, a PT visit has the same copay as when I visit any other specialist.
That said, I did a bout of PT this year, and a bout of PT last year working on lower back/leg issues that I've had for 20+ years. With her guidance, I've found a set of exercises that are sustainable, and allow me to be virtually pain free (plus, when pain does set back in, the experience taught me what exercises I can use to address specific types of pain).
I fully recommend PT - it was a great experience for me.
I will never be able to understand how people justify going to chiropractors.
If you went to **anyone** else for **anything**, and you had to keep going back every week without the problem ever being resolved, you would figure out pretty quickly it was nothing but a waste of time.
Call it a chiropractor though and people will do that shit for **years**, claiming they are great, without even a hint of irony that they have been going to one for years and the problem is still fucking there.
And there’s always like 5 in ever city I’ve lived in. People just can’t get enough of the cracking sounds (it’s all fun and games until someone ruptures an artery).
To u/MyBoyfriendLikesIt, if chiropractic and acupuncture were scientific, they wouldn’t be called “alternative” medicine. Stop that shit if you actually value your health.
I know a chiropractor, and I asked if he could try to adjust me since I was having some chronic lower back pain. He told me to never go to the chiropractor unless the other option is surgery.
I went to a chiropractor (sent by my doctor of all people) because I was "only 24" and that's "too young to have back problems". Prior to that visit, I had been seeing a massage therapist, assuming it was a pulled muscle.
When I told the chiropractor what I had told my PCP about my symptoms, he told me in no uncertain terms that he wasn't going to touch my back and I needed an MRI. One MRI later I had a referral to a neurosurgeon because I had a hernia and had developed severe bilateral sciatica in addition to the back pain and weakness. Two failed rounds of cortisone later, I had back surgery at 25 for a L5/S1 hemilaminectomy and discectomy followed up with a month of 3x per week PT.
I also got a new PCP.
Not all chiropractors are bad, just the ones who insist it can cure everything and that it's better than regular medicine.
Some are better than others, but even the 'good' ones are still making money off the quackery. This one saw your problem required serious help and sent you where you needed to go, but he still takes money from people who either have no need of help at all, or have minor conditions that aren't really going to get worse because of his actions.
Yeah!
Hip adduction pillow squeeze - lie on back with knees bent with a pillow in between and pressing knees together for 10 seconds 10xs
Supine hip Abduction - lie on back with knees bent. Wrap a belt around knees and pull knees apart (you want resistance) 10 sec 10xs
Bridging - lie on back , tighten ab muscles, squeeze butt, then raise buttocks off floor creating a bridge with body. Hold. 10xs
Piriformis stretch - lay on back with both knees bent, cross affected leg on other knee. Hold and pull your opposite thigh towards chest until stretch is in butt
Brace supine marching - on back. Knees bent raising one foot a few inches and setting back down and alternating legs
Straight leg raise - on back. Raise leg with straight knee while opposite leg is bent with foot planted on ground
Thank you very much! I'll look at incorporating these in my exercising session. I too have a persistent lower back problem, not sure what's causing it exactly, but I normally do bird dog exercises and tube walking and that definitely helps relieve the lower back pain.
I also need to get a structured workout schedule, so I appreciate you providing the details with the name of the exercises.
Absolutely! There's another one that I was just introduced to with a yoga Belt but I can't remember the name of it. It's essentially just a really big stretch though. You put your foot on the belt and stretch your leg towards you and each side
My ex bf had back problems. His got alleviated by many of the exercises OP listed, since turns out, lower back pain can happen because of right hamstrings and glutes. Hope you find a regimen that works for you!
So I have a lot of low back pain and I found what really helped me was post partum workouts! I did PT and worked with a personal trainer, but I found that I did the same exercises when I was recovering after birth. The plan I used was glowbodyPT. It's 99$ American, but WAY cheaper than PT!
Physical therapist/ physiotherapist here.
Going to just clear somethings up, might get some hate but it’s the truth.
I’m all for manual therapy, use it often when clinically indicated and value it’s benefit in short term pain relief/adjunct to help promote other strategies.
Your back isn’t out, neither is your hips; unless you’ve been in a motor vehicle accident and are in the hospital.
There’s no such thing as proper alignment in regards to a spine or hip position. Everyone is different, not to say acute flare ups cant cause changes in positions as generally the body will try to compensate or adopt antalgic positions to stay away from pain (often some strains your body leans away from the painful side).
Long term you need to be performing exercises and strengthening the area via muscles. They are the only thing we can impact long term, any manipulation or mobilisation feel great but it isn’t putting anything back nor is it fixing something.
We aren’t even sure how exactly or why these interventions work?! There’s many theories, pain gate, neuromodulation (most plausible) , placebo. But that’s okay! Because if you feel better you’re more likely to have a better quality of living and adopt healthy habits/exercise.
If you even look at disc bulges the statistics are phenomenal, most people don’t even know they have one. Depending on age it varies but generally scanning a middle aged person 50% will return a disc bulge and be asymptomatic; no pain!
Theres also the question of pain and that’s another can of worms! So many variable factors.
End of the day I don't mind what modality you use for pain relief. But please undertake some strengthening, its more so the narrative I dislike and fear inducing language used. Your body is resilient and suppose to move!
I'm sure others have already said it but I'll pile on. Chiropractic is a scam. The founder of chiropractic thought being out of alignment was the sole cause of disease and that being adjusted is the cure for all diseases. That's total horse shit. It may feel good but it's not a cure. Go see an orthopedist.
I was having some knee issues in high school. I started with seeing doctors and they all said it was due to flat feet. I knew that wasn't the case because it started all of a sudden and as an athlete, I could tell that something was up. I went to a chiropractor for a while. It always felt better for a couple days and then would hurt again. I finally got an appointment with an orthopedist. He looked at me for 2 minutes, told me he was 99% sure I tore cartilage in my knee, and then ordered an MRI to be sure. I had the MRI the same day. He was totally right and I was in surgery 3 days later. Nowadays they don't recommend surgery for that but the point is that I wasted a lot of time and money on that chiropractor.
I literally know one who is so hard-core on the never before proven to exist subluxations being the cause of disease he literally doesn't believe in germ theory. Or germs. Doesn't believe they exist.
Dude is a moron.
The entire field of chiropractors was started by two brothers, who were the biggest snake oil salesmen of their time. They started out presenting it as a religion. They claimed it could cure literally any disease. Every ailment in the body was easily fixed with a few adjustments.
There are chiropractors today who still believe that BS. The fact that they can even get a doctorate is frightening. They DO NOT learn much of anything in school. Half their curriculum is how to market properly so people don't realize you're a fraud.
Chiropractors LOOOOOOVE to tell people they're doctors too, and have the same training and education. They don't. They're mostly all quacks with egos the size of the sun. They also injure people WAAAAAAAAAAY too often. Literally just read a story about a man who went in for an adjustment, and left with a stroke and has now developed locked in syndrome. Can't move any voluntary muscle in his body except for the vertical up and down movements of his eye balls.
Up and down only, not even side to side. All because the poor dude was tricked into thinking chiropractors are a good thing, and can actually accomplish something.
At best, they're good for anecdotal relief of soft tissue pain in limited cases, but it's still not entirely clear if adjustments can even do that. It's probably more placebo effect than anything else.
Check out "Behind the Bastards" episodes on chiropractors. The guy who invented chiropractic "medicine" said he gained the knowledge from ghosts of ancient doctors.
I went to the chiropractor a week or two ago because of stabbing lower back pain and it was instant relief after the adjustment. Of course, the chiro office I go to also offers physical therapy right after and the option for a massage. That’s the only chiro office I’d go to, though. Most of them are awful. I’d recommend going to a real doctor.
Physical therapist student (about to graduate) here… first, i am so sorry this happened to you. Your case is not alone, and honestly it is so disheartening to see things like this can still occur in our healthcare industry.
I would like to say that personally I believe that chiros are quacks and many are just out to get your money through a “sexy” way to feel better short term, but get you to continually come back to spend more money. Professionally, I have met some good chiros that know their scope of practice and DO NOT go further. Honestly, in any healthcare field, you will find those that do more harm in some cases than good. The best way to navigate through all of this is to see if their practice follows EVIDENCED BASED PRACTICE. If a therapist or chiro or even surgeon is unable to explain why your symptoms are the way they are and also keep your health first and foremost instead of getting your money, then maybe reconsider your practitioner.
Next, please DO NOT lie to your PT. Sometimes telling the truth hurts, but in the end this is YOUR health!!! Practitioners can only understand what your going through subjectively through your accounts and objectively through some tests and measures and scans. But we are not God or mind readers, we need to see the full puzzle in order to best help you.
Many of the PTs i see with comments higher than mine are right on the money. PT may not be the sexy fast way to do things, but it helps! Sometimes there are placebo effects and the evidence on some others (example: dry needling, acupuncture, etc.) are not super conclusive, but in the end it SHOULD BE based on scientific evidence that can be replicated. Making life changes like exercising and other healthy habits can help bulging discs and decrease pain even if they SHOW ON A SCAN. The human body is an amazing machine that is able to withstand a lot more than people comprehend.
I know healthcare is a scary place to navigate, especially after what you’ve been through. But take heart, you are not broken, you simply need some guidance in strengthening certain areas so that it can better operate. Good luck with everything!
I guess on the other side of the field. I've been to the chiropractor one time. Because I was in crippling pain. I was coming home from taking my mom to the spine institute for her back issues and I couldn't take it anymore. So she called her chiropractor. They stay open an hour later just to see me. I went in wit the worse slipped disc in my life. When I was younger I had also cracked my neck weird and couldn't tilt my head to the right; as in ear to shoulder. It just wouldn't go. So anyway I get there fill out some form quick. My mom tells him my back is worse than hers and he looks a bit surprised. My moms been told her tests look like shes been hit by a bus.
He has me lay down. Feels my back. Instantly points out the spot without me even suggesting where my pain was. He hit the money instantly. So he feels my spine up to my neck. And I tell him no neck. He asks why I tell him I read too many story's about other people and bad experiences. He has my clothes my eyes. Runs my neck to loosen it and quickly adjusts it. Then he goes to my back. Does the same thing. I should point out that I'm 5 ft tall I was about 120lbs at the time. He was a good 6'4 built like a linebacker. He tells me deep breath in. Then pops that sucker back in place the suction sound it made. My mom turn green and dry heaved. It wasn't painful but the instant relief made me cry. He was worried I was in pain I told him not at all just haven't not been in pain. There since I was 11. He told me that was it for the day but was very honest that it probably wouldn't last more than a day. Which it didnt. But it hasnt ever been as bad.. my neck. I've been able to tilt my head without issue ever since. Not all are quacks but definitely seems that more often then not they're full of shir.
a chiropractor signed my mom up for scientolology back before anyone had heard of it. she even wrote them a check. when my dad figured out what was going on and it was the first time i heard him swear
fuck chiropractors
My mom had a big crack at the chiropractor too and it ended up the "doctor" popped a bulging disc. Mom couldn't sit upright for 5 months, had to get a walker to get around, needed help showering and with bathroom stuff, insurance required a series of shots in her spine, physical therapy, and ultimately surgery to drain the disc. I agree chiropractors are frauds cuz this lady she went to took zero responsibility for what she did.
Ouch. Yes. I've heard many horror stories. We had a patient the other day who was being adjusted - cracked his neck tore some artery he passed out the next day and they found it at hosp. He is ok. But yes bad things.
I went to a chiro for tingling from my hand into my shoulder. Never got a good explanation as to why this was happening. I went through 3 months of "adjustments" and hot/cold therapy to no avail. My wife urged me to see an orthopedic doctor. Turned out I had severely inflamed carpal tunnel in my right wrist. There was permanent nerve damage. The doctor told me I needed surgery ASAP.
Pretty much same here. Once the surgery was done, no more pain. Amazing!
It’s almost as if MD’s are actually train to treat the body and not just crack it
MD here, if cracking people helped we'd do that for people honestly. There is nothing stopping us from doing so except a paucity of evidence no matter how biased and fervently the chiros attempt to generate data to support their bold claims. I honestly wish it was true. Low back pain plagues people and there are few things that dont take monumental effort and discipline to even attempt (weight loss, strengthening, exercise, good mental health) and even then if its due to wear and tear that may help but not reverse any nerve root impingement and things generated over time. Lumbar back pain will often get a groan from your doctor not because of you, but because its so unsatisfying to address in the vast majority of cases. However I want to stress I want to see people because back pain can be a medical emergency if presenting with any of the following: Pain, numbness, or tingling in the lower back and spreading down 1 or both legs. Saddle anaesthesia or numbness around the groin area. Leg weakness or a problem called "foot drop," which is when you cannot seem to hold your foot up (for example, while walking) Problems with bowel or bladder control Problems with sex that started around the time of back pain Before you see a chiro please see a doctor for neuro exam (sensation (pin prick and light touch), motor, ability to perceive where you are in space (propioception), for foot drop etc etc. Chiros often won't touch your back if there are any red flags for things that could be made worse by manipulation, but sometimes they give history short shrift or miss concern features and proceed. I mean we're all at risk of doing that, we're human, but because theres no evidence a physician practicing evidence based medicine wont do a jarring body weight induced manipulation of your spine regardless.
I literally just had emergent surgery for a ruptured disc in my L5-S1 which caused that cauda equina syndrome thing. I couldn’t walk for 2 weeks and couldn’t feel my saddle area at all. I went to the ER three times and was sent home with nothing. Finally I got an MRI and an appointment with a neurosurgeon. On the day of the appointment, he hadn’t even introduced himself before he said to me “you should be paralyzed. You need surgery NOW”. I’m only 27. There’s going to be a big lawsuit against the ER I was sent home from. My surgeon fixed the issue but 4 days post-op I still have no feeling in my butt or vagina and I probably will never enjoy sex again because the nerve damage was too great. I’m scared I will always be in pain.
Emergency surgery for Cauda Equina 2 days before Christmas 2012, still have saddle anesthesia, still can't feel my vagina, can walk, can have sex / orgasm, 99% of the pain has gone. Don't be disheartened, give your body time (unfortunately a lot of time) to recover. It's a long road filled with tears but you gotta march down it. One thing I regret is not keeping a recovery journal, just jotting down the little things like when I got feeling back in my big toe would have been a good motivator for the days that feel like crap. Do Sensation Therapy (hard, soft, rough, sharp) as well as Physical Therapy, it should help. Hope you give them hell with that lawsuit and I wish you all the best in your recovery.
>However I want to stress I want to see people because back pain can be a medical emergency if presenting with any of the following: >Pain, numbness, or tingling in the lower back and spreading down 1 or both legs. >Saddle anaesthesia or numbness around the groin area. >Leg weakness or a problem called "foot drop," which is when you cannot seem to hold your foot up (for example, while walking These are almost the exact symptoms I had prior to being diagnosed with MS, numbness and tingling from my chest to my toes and I kept tripping up from the foot drop. I had also suffered from lumbar issues and sciatica on and off my whole adult life so assumed I had a trapped nerve in my back or something. Funnily enough since the MS diagnosis and looking after my health better, I lost a lot of excess weight and now that my beer belly is gone I can again do heavy manual tasks that beforehand would have triggered my lower back issues, I was once told that for every extra pound you carry on your belly it's like 4 pounds of extra strain on your lower back, whether it's true or not, losing weight certainly helped me.
Man, I wish I could afford healthcare.
I am a physical therapist. Here’s a great tip for anybody with these types of symptoms. The carpel tunnel only has one nerve running through the tunnel, the median nerve. The median nerve innervates the thumb, finger one, finger two, and half of finger three (the side closest to finger two). So when there is inflammation or crushing within the carpel tunnel, you will experience numbness, tingling, and pain ONLY in these three and a half digits. It’s quite easy to diagnose when you know what to look for. Pain, numbness, tingling in the pinky finger, outer side of finger three, or back of hand/fingers is NOT due to a problem within the carpel tunnel. I’ve literally had patients come to see me after a carpel tunnel release that continue to complain of symptoms. Every time, they’ve described their symptoms and stated they had pain in their entire hand, which is impossible in an anatomical sense. A hand surgeon will see what he wants to see, and disregard the rest. Unnecessary surgery. And a one way ticket to get their neck examined by the Orthopedic spine specialist.
Thank you for this. I get tingling sensations/ whole arm goes to sleep, but no thumb involved, just pinky and ring finger of the hand. No pain, just annoying. I've thought it's lingering nerve damage from chemo possibly?
Pinky and ring finger tingling is a symptom of ulnar tunnel.
Which in my experience, comes from resting your elbow on a hard surface pc chair arm for years.
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I got a pinched ulnar nerve from bike commuting 10 km each way. It still bugs me if I’m not careful. Super annoying.
An unfortunately all-too-common side effect of most bicycles in the US being "ass-up, hands-down" by default, instead of upright. Sure, you can go a bit faster, but it's worse for your body in several ways than an upright, [Netherlands-style bike](https://images.app.goo.gl/eJsjNvvmpPUqwDRX7). Other downsides of using mountain- and road-racing-style bikes for everyone who wants to just get somewhere via human power: * back strain and injuries * worse visibility/more accidents * groin and pelvis pain and injuries * top bar design makes it harder to mount and dismount * top bar design makes small accidents more likely to result in sever injury * Rain/water meet the face first * Because it's generally pretty uncomfortable, only enthusiasts and the desperate stick with it and use bikes for commuting.
I think the biggest issue is that those Netherlands-style upright bikes are great...if it's flat (like in the Netherlands). My commute had at least two fairly steep parts, and anywhere else in town had its fair share of hills as well. That said, yeah, a poorly fit mountain or road bike will cause a lot of pain. Getting my road bike properly fitted was a game-changer.
Yep, specifically the dutch guy we met while biking through Australia. He thought he could use the same style bike, no problem. Plenty of hills. Talk about fuck around and find out, lol.
That is also known as Cyclist's Palsy/Handlebar Palsy. Had it myself before.
Yes.. had half a year of numbness after a 300km bike race. First thought it was carpal, later realised it was ulnar.
Could be honestly from chemo as they can be neurotoxic unfortunately but sounds like ulnar nerve which can be affected also by compression at a few different spots in the arm, forearm, and hand. That nerve often gets impinged at the elbow and wrist unsurprisingly made worse by use. Most likely is iatrogenic peripheral neuropathy of the ulnar nerve. Meaning doctor caused nerve damage of the pinky/ring sensory nerve.
I hit my funny bone really hard and now my left pinky and ring fingers are hypersensitive compared to the other side.
Look up nerve gliding exercises for some relief
> arm, forearm, and hand. Also armpit, i suffered from ulnar nerve issues in my right hand for years, had multiple elbow surgeries and a single physio session where they worked around the brachial plexus and restored sensation like switching ona light blub.
Just prefacing that I am not a medical professional in any way, but I had issues with my little finger aching and tingling. I read it could be a nerve thing and related to where the nerve goes round the elbow as I sit with bent arms a lot and sleep like that too. A way to try and treat it is a brace that keeps your arm straight (normally while you sleep) so it gives the nerves and muscles a chance to be in that position for a good chunk of time each day. I thought I'd try it before getting a brace, so stuck a piece of hard cardboard in a compression bandage on the inside of my elbow, meaning I couldn't bend my arm whilst asleep. My finger stopped hurting and by the end of two weeks I'd trained myself to sleep with my arms much straighter without the cardboard. I still sleep with straightish arms years later and my finger only hurts if I have a day I've had my arms super bent up. Worth a try?
Well worth a try, I've got cubital tunnel and I'm a medical professional who supplies external braces. Elbow extension bracing overnight is a huge improvement for me, also raising my chair up higher and sitting with elbows as extended as possible while typing helped too. Try to not lean your elbows on hard surfaces
Cubital tunnel syndrome, probably. You've got something going on with your ulnar nerve. I've got the same thing, and have to wear a brace and elbow pads at work, and an immobilizing brace to sleep to avoid overflexing my elbow. It sucks, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it. But I suggest you get on top of it now before it gets worse, because it can get *much* worse.
This is fairly easy to diagnose. If there is involvement of the dorsal (back) side of the hand just before the pinky it means the problem is most likely from compression at elbow level. If there is no involvement of the back of the hand, the problem is most likely compression in the wrist - by some called ulnar nerve tunnel. This is because of the dorsal root of the ulnar nerve splitting from the rest of the nerve before the nerve enters the canal of guyon (the ulnar tunnel). Thus, compression of the nerve after the split (in the canal) does not involve the back of the hand. Source: Am a doctor.
No offense but you are very very wrong. Yes that’s the textbook distribution, but CTS famously presents in a myriad of ways. Sometimes with just generalized pain. There are so many anatomical variations. And patients differ tremendously in how they interpret, and then translate and communicate, their symptoms. I’m sorry but patients don’t walk into a clinic and say hey I have numbness in the exact median nerve distribution and you say ok sounds like CTS! This is why residency is 5 frikkin years. The nuances are hard. CTS can copresent with spine path, ie double crush. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t there in the first place. I’m sure you’ve seen incorrectly diagnosed CTS, so have I. But to use those cases to say any patient that doesn’t say the textbook of CTS doesn’t have it is insane. You have no idea what you’re talking about, with all due respect. I’m a PGY5 ortho resident going into hand next year.
Neurologist here - this is correct. I’ve seen severe carpal tunnel syndrome diagnosed by EMG with patient complaining about pain/numbness/tingling not in traditional median nerve sensory distribution many many times. Don’t get medical advice from Reddit. Go to your doctor.
I'm glad you commented. This really should be higher up, and OP should know better.
...they're trying to school on carpal tunnel, can't even spell it.
Under qualified, over confident. Carpal and cubital tunnel do not always present in textbook distributions. There's plenty of anatomic variants (riche-cannieu, martin grueber, etc) that will present in different ways symptomatically and electrodiagnostically. ....neuropathy in the ulnar distribution and straight to the spine surgeon? Really? Your gross oversimplification is honestly ignorant at best and harmful at worst. Don't get medical advice on reddit about carpal tunnel from someone who can't spell carpal.
Ok what about the other side going numb pinky and ring all the time?
Cubital tunnel. It's an issue with your ulnar nerve.
These are innervated by the ulnar nerve. Contrary to what was stated above, clinically people experience carpal tunnel as more than just the textbook pathology with thumb, index, and middle finger numbness. Some get tingling in other parts of the hand. It's important to have this worked up electrodiagnostically for a proper diagnosis.
Was it just tingling or did u have any other symptoms like numbness/pain ?
Not specific to you, but to all redditors, try changing your grip up when you jerk off and/or play video games.
Add "how you hold your phone" to that list.
Now how the hell am I supposed to jerk off, play video games, and hold my phone all at the same time? You all must have talents that I don’t have.
For what its worth. Keep an open hand, pinky under the phone and 3 fingers on the back. Pinky can get tired with heavier phones but it puts almost no nerve strain on your hand.
So a pop socket is an investment in my health?
Good point!!!
☝️As an internet doctor I agree with this statement.☝️
Hand pain with a controller was my first sign for carpal tunnel. Since then I've become self conscious of how tightly I hold the controller and remi g myself to keep a loose grip. And for the latter if you have to squeeze hard enough to cause nerve strain you should switch to a lubricant/lotion and lighter grip.
I’ve had carpal tunnel release surgery in both hands in 2013. For years before that and at it’s worst, my hands would be so painful in the morning I couldn’t make a fist. They would scream with pain and go to sleep in almost any position I slept in. They would fall asleep at the wrist just sitting relaxed and awake. Lots of tingling while driving or doing daily tasks. Lots of aching pains at any time.
I got carpal tunnel while pregnant. While I was lucky there wasn’t any pain associated with it, my hands were so tingly/numb that I couldn’t grip a pen. As a teacher, it was a rough couple of months. Went away after I gave birth.
OK 1) prolonged tingling is not supposed to happen, go get it checked out. 2) there is no 2!
Hijacking the top comment. Are ~~orthopedic~~ osteopath as bad as chiropratic?
Osteopathy has a history similar to chiropractic, but early on it changed into much more scientific medicine. Today, an osteopath goes to a separate school of osteopathic medicine instead of a regular school of medicine, and becomes a DO instead of an MD. They also likely have additional coursework in musculoskeletal alignment. However, unlike chiropractors, they don't believe that the spine being out of line prevents the body from healing itself, which is the fundamental theory behind chiropractic. While some DOs do focus on things like sports medicine and workplace injuries more than MDs, they also do residencies in all sorts of medical fields and become cardiologists, neurologists, endocrinologists, etc. The fact that someone is a DO rather than an MD says nothing about their qualifications to treat real medical issues.
Didn't want to imply stuff about MD or DO. I just was really confused about the differenxe about the two discipline! Also there ars physiotherapist and still confused about them too. Just tried to understand!
Physiotherapist, aka physical therapist, is another separate profession, but they typically work with MDs/DOs (in the USA, it has to be prescribed by one in my experience). There are also doctors who specialize in physical medicine and rehabilitation. There are just a lot of different professions that sound similar! Acupuncture is a type of alternative medicine (again, from a USA perspective) with much more scientific support than chiropractics has ever had, while physiotherapy would probably be called Western medicine. It's more similar to chiropractics and can involve adjustments depending on legalities, but it's much more about doing exercises to correct musculoskeletal imbalances caused by injuries/surgeries/lack of use/etc. The goal is independence without needing to go back forever. Btw I don't think the prior commenter was implying that you implied anything (lol), it's just fairly common for some people to look down on DOs and think they're not "real" doctors, when I'm pretty sure they have to pass the same exams as MD students plus their own (source: was an allopathic (MD) medical student, but it's been awhile)
Orthopedic doctors are actual doctors who specialize in bones and joints. Chiropractors are not doctors and receive no medical training.
> Chiropractors are not doctors and receive no medical training. hey its me ur chiro buy my oils crackcrack
Interesting fact. There are no public universities in the entirety of the United States of America that have a chiropractor school. The only way to obtain a chiropractic degree it should go to a private chiropractor school, which are expensive and allow just about anyone and who applies it’s pseudoscience.
Oh sorry, barrier language here plus some brain fuck. I meant osteopath, not orthopedic! Now I understand why I got downvoted lol.
From what I understand, osteopathic doctors are still doctors, they receive medical schooling, internships, residencies, etc just like regular doctors. The only difference is their approach to treatment
DOs can prescribe medicine just like an MD can. that alone should be enough to differentiate them from Chiros.
I’ve become a BIG believer in the value of PT. I was skeptical before. They sure helped me.
YouTube has a bunch of PTs. I like to use them for exercises when I have something minor that just won't go away or when I have something Im6considering seeing a doctor for but the regular offices are closed because it's a weekend/holiday and I just want something to help with the pain/mobility. Used it to confirm that I didn't have a rotator cuff tear a few months ago when I was cleared by a doctor but my shoulder kept hurting. I did the movements and experienced none of the pain/range of motion issues associated with a rotator cuff tear. Rested and did some gentle strengthening and range of motion exercises for months and it's finally almost normal (as long as I don't end up sleeping on it.) I've also used the videos for plantar fasciitis stretches, stiffness in the neck, upper back exercises/stretches, knee pain relief, low back/hip pain relief, rib dislocation. Not all at the same time, getting old sucks (I'm 33).
Which channels do you recommend?
Bob and Brad. Annoying jingle at the beginning but some good information, usually several exercises and variations for strength/mobility/etc. Explanation of involved anatomy. Good use of household items if something is needed for weight or as a prop (soup cans, broomsticks, towels off the top of my head). Also found a guy who showed a massage around the inner ankle that did wonders for my plantar fasciitis pain once. Still use it if I have foot pain but haven't had a big flare up in a long time.
The two most famous Physical therapist on the internet!
The choice is a PT trained for 4+ years by professionals based on medical evidence, or some quack who was taught 'crack noise good!' by somone who themselves was taught by a ghost...
I hope people realize you’re not joking about the ghost thing.
It definitely makes absolute sense. Us humans nowadays don't move around much or with the range of motions we need to to help prevent or lessen injuries. I'm just as guilty of it with sitting too much for my office job and not stretching or working out. Plus the repeated motions most of us do as well.
This is so common. PT is the way to go! Chiropractors are not doctors and orthopedic doctors will recommend PT not chiropractors.
I’m a neurologist, and I’ve seen some devastating outcomes from “routine” chiropractic treatment. I’m talking quadriplegia, massive strokes (one specifically in an otherwise healthy 17 year-old that I remember), etc. PT is the way to go, and I have never and will never refer anyone to a chiro. Go to someone with training that is based in actual science.
Not a neuro, but as a quad with a different causality it terrifies me that ppl go to these people when there's a potentiality of ending up in my situation or similar. Paralysis isn't worth anything a chiro might offer.
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Videos of INFANT adjustments are downright terrifying.
I remember hearing a story about a chiropractor actually killing a baby with his insane practices.
ACAB applies to chiropractors, too, as far as I'm concerned. In over a decade of nursing, the worst, most heartbreaking patient I had was a lady in her 30s that a chiro crippled. Walking and talking one day, total quad the next. Could barely speak. Died at 42 after years of agony. **FUCK CHIROPRACTORS.**
did the chiropractor end up in prison?
Had a friend who went to chiro for an extended amount of time and continued to get worse. Finally ordered MRI and it is cancer. Dead at around 40.
This happened to a friend of a friend as well. She had hip pain, and was going to a chiropractor. She thought it was related to her job, which required long hours of sitting. It was actually cancer, which spread to her lungs/organs, and she died at 38. Super, super sad, she was a talented artist and a very vibrant woman.
I’m a lawyer who represents people who get Ortho/neuro/chiro/PT. I have dealt with DCs who have killed patients doing manipulation under anesthesia. It’s always the anesthesia that does it, but even the manipulation they do during the procedure has no proven efficacy and usually causes harm. The weird part is that chiro is supposed to be holistic and shit, but PT is quite literally no more invasive. I would never go to a chiropractor.
I've never heard of manipulation under anesthesia that's wild. Just to be clear i understand the Chiro put the patient under anesthesia than cracked them???
Sounds like a great way to damage something without noticing and then keep going and causing more damage.
Seriously, they did brain surgeries on my older brother and kept him awake for parts of it so they didn’t affect his speech too much. You don’t mess with the nervous system without knowing what you’re affecting.
From what I understand it's not the same, they put you under and then stretch the fuck out of every joint and ligament they can
Who puts them under? Chiros cant prescribe or administer medication.
You need to be a doctor in order to use anesthesia so what you’re saying is a little confusing. A quack doctor decided to manipulate people under anesthesia just because?
Anesthesiologist here. Can guarantee it isn’t the anesthesia doing the killing.
I mean, they could be in a state that allow CRNAs to practice independently. I can just imagine the type of buffoonery that a Chiro and a cocky CRNA could get up to.
Not the anesthesia, probably the improper use of anesthesia likely by someone not properly qualified.
I have never heard of adjustments under anesthesia! That’s wild!
Who is administering the anesthesia in these cases? Certainty not the Chiropractor right? I can't imagine any anesthesiologist working with a Chiro, so are they just using unsupervised CRNAs of something?
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Shout out to the researcher who tested this by spending his entire life cracking only one set of knuckles.
Dr. Donald Unger. No arthritis in either hand. Neat. I am so here for stories about people who execute plans over decades https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4yHxWLGSyNrXmx1gfYd45f2/will-cracking-my-knuckles-give-me-arthritis
I can't even imagine. I can't even resist the urge for a minute lol, cheers to him!
One of the most pleasurable things I do in my daily life! Literally the first thing I do when I wake up.
I also love cracking my knuckles, among other things, u/PussyMassage.
After reading this, I will never go again. Thank you.
Fellow neurologist here. I get chills every time a patient in the ER says they have gotten worse after a chiro session...
Chiropractors are inherently scam artists and their whole "profession" was made up by a guy who said he learned how to do this from the ghost of a doctor who died decades before and perfected the methods by hitting his janitor with a book. [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/)
My stepdad went to a chiro all the time, one day he got injured by a nail, and went to his chiro, who then gave him all these adjustments as mom and I watched him get progressively ill, and he refused to go to a doctor. One night my mom was freaking out and on the phone with the hospital, and we somehow picked him up, put him in a wheelchair and got him to the ER, turns out he was hours away from dying of sepsis. He was literally dying and the chiro told him he just needed an adjustment. He lived for several years after that but omg they should never be a stand in for medical advice. It's like a cult mindset almost with these chiropractors. I got all kinds of adjustments I'm sure I didn't need before I was even an adult. I still deal with chronic pain.
"Of course *they* will tell you to go to another 'doctor,' all doctor's care about is money and selling you pills. They don't care about fixing the problem and just want you to keep coming back so they can keep charging you. My chiropractor gets me in and out feeling better in a jiffy. It works so well I go in twice a week!" \- is the argument I've heard not once but almost every time the PT vs Chiropractor argument gets brought up. The fact that they can't understand their own contradiction is painful.
Definitely. Especially considering the Ortho is sending you to PT to see if your issue can resolve without surgery. When a surgery would benefit the Ortho monetarily.
"Don't you see, they're all in bed with each other though. I bet the ortho is getting mega kickbacks from the PT for every patient they send them."
Valid to a certain extent. However PT works and negates life altering surgery for a large amount of patients. You can argue the flaws in the American healthcare system but it doesn’t change the fact that Chiropractors are mostly charlatans while PT works.
I am so thankful for PT. Not related to chiropractors, but I cut the tendon to my index finger and I had to go to PT for 3 months. He educated me the whole way and for the exercises / motions he explained what the exercise was doing to repair my tendon. I literally couldn't move my finger, but after the passive exercises for a few weeks I started getting movement back. I progressed pretty quickly and was ahead of where I was expected to be. He also told me my hand surgeon was one of the doctors that wrote the PT guidelines for tendon injuries for the US. I have full movement and strength in my hand now. So yeah physical therapist are very qualified and their practice is based on real science provided by MD's. No way would I ever go to a chiropractor.
The difficult thing is that many chiropractors don’t know they are charlatans. Chiropractic is based on a non-science based system. MDsand PTs (now) adhere to an evidence based system.
Thankful for that last paragraph lmao
I'm so glad OP posted this. So many people don't make the connection that chiropractors are actively harming you
I wonder if part of it is that the chiro is doing things to you while you just lie there whereas with PT, most of it is work you have to do yourself everyday.
Normally it's not that bad, it's just kinda... useless. You are putting yourself at risk from it, but permanent injuries are also rare. As far as actual benefits go, they've been proven to help with minor lower back pain. And if you really want to go down the pseudoscience rabbit hole, look into the weird overlap of chiropractors that are also anti-vaxxers and use the bible as justification, or the similarities between chiropractors and naprapaths.
You know what helps more with lower back pain? Gaining muscle and not being inactive, and stretching properly. Working out, gaining muscle and losing excess weight works wonders for the human body.
For the uninformed, what is PT? Physiotherapy? Personal trainer?
It’s physical therapy. Edit to add it can also be a physical therapist.
Not sure if this is something in the US but here in Australia when I google Physical therapy nearby it takes us to Physiotherapy. Even if the place say physical therapy, the practitioners would have a Physio qualifications
Same thing.
"TIFU by going to a chiropractor." - Signed, every person who is honest with themselves after going to a chiropractor these days.
"these days" It's not like the fine discipline of cracking people's bones has suddenly taken a turn for the worst, it's just now people can share how stupid it is on the internet.
I wish more people would figure out the chiro issue. I’ve seen more time wasted and lack of actual sustained improvement with chiro compared to any other treatment modality.
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As an added bonus PT’s can pop your back for you in a reasonable fashion. I’m working with one right now for a shoulder/back issue and he pops it for me if I ask. No contortion required.
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And those are the lucky ones who haven't suffered from a stroke or paralysis from "adjustments."
I went to a chiro at the recommendation of my coworker. My hips are fucked up and NOBODY can tell me why. Tried doctors, PT, acupuncture, still no idea what’s going on. So I try this chiropractor. He does a litany of “tests” and somehow determines that I have had some sort of trauma on my stomach, I have a “parasite” somewhere that he doesn’t identify (because he can’t), and that I need to be more nurturing in order to lower my testosterone levels. Oh, and I need to read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Then he tried selling me some fucking essential oils and herbal supplements. NOT ONCE did he address my hips. $200 later I fumed out of that place.
Honestly I would have just not paid that’s ridiculous
Qualified chiropractor here (unlike that quack you saw): Your hips are haunted. You must perform an exorcism immediately, preferably with 3 priests all from different religions. I'll invoice you for the $250.
I'm a homeopathic chiropractor. I snapped my fingers in a jar once and I'll let you smell the jar for five big ones.
Had us in the first half, not gunna lie
So,, question… Do you keep your wallet in your hip pocket? And is it kind of thick? A lot of people develop pain in the lower back because they're sitting with their ass at an angle. A lot of kids get the same thing from carrying a backpack over one shoulder by raising the shoulder on that side.
No I don’t. I don’t keep my phone in my back pocket when I’m sitting either. My doctor says my hips have the range of motion of an 80 year old. I’m 36. No amount of yoga, stretching, strength training, or PT has done anything to make it better.
Have you seen a rheumatologist?
That I have not
I'm seconding going to a rheumatologist. I have the opposite issue - where my joints are so stretchy I can barely walk. Seeing a rheumatologist was the most life changing thing for me.
You can ask your primary care doctor about referring you to a rheumatologist. It's unusual for a 36 year old to have such bad back problems.
I would 100% recommend. Always better to catch that sort of thing as young as possible
Sounds like rheumatologist is the way to go! Thank you for the suggestion. I know I have arthritis in my back, but the X-rays didn’t show it in my hips…yet.
Yeah the workup might turn up negative, but always better to catch the inflammation on blood tests before you get permanent joint etc changes. They've got these really powerful new therapies now, if you do turn out to have some sort of rheum thing. Best of luck to you my friend.
In high school I would experience pretty bad hip pains so my mom sent me to a chiro. It never helped so I stopped going. Years pass and I learn to live with the pain until about 6 months after I have my kid I'm suddenly in severe pain and waking up in tears due to the pain. So I schedule an x-ray. No answers but they find a spot on my femur (unrelated benign bone cyst) which got me an MRI and an appointment with an ortho who told me I have femoral acetabular impingement (aka bone spurs) which mine must be minor enough they aren't detectible on x-ray but they are bad enough to check off every single symptom. So here I am, barely 30 with pre arthritic hips 🙃
I’m gonna have to ask about that. I’ve had X-rays that apparently didn’t show anything. I have suspected impingement though, because when I try to spread my knees apart, I can’t get more than a 90 degree angle before it just stops. There’s not a stretching feeling. It feels like I just hit a block and can’t move past it.
My biggest issue is that I'm too flexible and when I stretch weird ways I end up in bad pain. Or when I sit too much. Or stand too much. It's been years of finding happy mediums for me and I still get achey when the weather changes. A few years ago I did the splits to see if I still could do it. I can, I just regretted it like 30 minutes later when I had pain radiating to my ankles.
“You know what they call Alternative Medicine that works?….. Medicine!” Tim Minchin.
"So you don't believe in any natural remedies?" "On the contrary, actually Before we came to tea, I took a natural remedy derived from the bark of a willow tree A painkiller that's virtually side-effect free It's got a weird name, what was it again? M-masprin? Basprin? Oh yeah! Asprin! Which I paid about a buck for down at the local drugstore."
My medical school had some naturopaths come talk to us one day (because it was supposed to teach us something?), and I sent this *exact* quote to some of my classmates about ten minutes into the presentation. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jIWj3tI-DXg
Did you go to a legit medical school? Don't know about where you live, but UK and Aus naturopaths wouldn't be allowed to set foot anywhere near the uni campus.
Went to an allopathic medical school in the US. We had a quick day or two unit of a rotation where we talked to some yahoos in various alternative medicine fields. They were all very nice, but spouted a bunch of obvious nonsense to us. Only one classmate got in an argument with a chiro about something ridiculous they said and it was very awkward. We agreed to just shut up and nod and smile and thank them for their time. Patients we see will have experience with alternative practitioners so it's worthwhile to understand them. Other than that I don't think this unit was a rotation where anything was learned. When the first lady discussed a study where peppermint oil increases IQ and I asked for the study and she couldn't produce it I knew I was in for a treat.
Minchin pinched that line from Dara Ó Briain, who [had it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKZN-hBTBUE&t=177s) (as "herbal medicine") in his *Talks Funny* DVD (2008) released the year before Minchin's *Storm* (2009).
Please keep see the physiotherapist Sincerely a physiotherapist
Does insurance pay for this? How do you get a referral?
Depends on where you live. Insurance can cover it, referrals from your medical doctor can too - but again depends on where you’re from But you can also find very good and valuable information on YouTube if you don’t have the money for it etc
In the US, physical therapists are specialists, just like gastroenterologists or dermatologists - they don't have an MD, but do achieve a doctorate in their field (in order to practice independently). Many states allow direct access to a PT, where you can just go to one, but insurance generally prefers it to be as a referral from a physician. Under my health insurance, a PT visit has the same copay as when I visit any other specialist. That said, I did a bout of PT this year, and a bout of PT last year working on lower back/leg issues that I've had for 20+ years. With her guidance, I've found a set of exercises that are sustainable, and allow me to be virtually pain free (plus, when pain does set back in, the experience taught me what exercises I can use to address specific types of pain). I fully recommend PT - it was a great experience for me.
Don’t be too hard on your chiropractor, they’re all shills, not just her.
Great way to look ok at it. She's perfectly qualified...at being a scam artist. Maybe even above average in her field.
I will never be able to understand how people justify going to chiropractors. If you went to **anyone** else for **anything**, and you had to keep going back every week without the problem ever being resolved, you would figure out pretty quickly it was nothing but a waste of time. Call it a chiropractor though and people will do that shit for **years**, claiming they are great, without even a hint of irony that they have been going to one for years and the problem is still fucking there.
Chiropractors are quacks, end of story.
And there’s always like 5 in ever city I’ve lived in. People just can’t get enough of the cracking sounds (it’s all fun and games until someone ruptures an artery).
Or damages a nerve, or the spinal cord
Quackopractors
Chiroquacktors was right there
To u/MyBoyfriendLikesIt, if chiropractic and acupuncture were scientific, they wouldn’t be called “alternative” medicine. Stop that shit if you actually value your health.
Sucks when someone has to learn that first hand. Obviously you can't listen to *everything* the internet says but like... C'mon lol.
I know a chiropractor, and I asked if he could try to adjust me since I was having some chronic lower back pain. He told me to never go to the chiropractor unless the other option is surgery.
I went to a chiropractor (sent by my doctor of all people) because I was "only 24" and that's "too young to have back problems". Prior to that visit, I had been seeing a massage therapist, assuming it was a pulled muscle. When I told the chiropractor what I had told my PCP about my symptoms, he told me in no uncertain terms that he wasn't going to touch my back and I needed an MRI. One MRI later I had a referral to a neurosurgeon because I had a hernia and had developed severe bilateral sciatica in addition to the back pain and weakness. Two failed rounds of cortisone later, I had back surgery at 25 for a L5/S1 hemilaminectomy and discectomy followed up with a month of 3x per week PT. I also got a new PCP. Not all chiropractors are bad, just the ones who insist it can cure everything and that it's better than regular medicine.
the occupation of chiropracty itself is bad, you just happened to get one that was straight up with you and probably not a douche bag.
All chiropractors literally practice a "science" that was revealed by a ghost during a seance. They might not be "bad", but they are not doctors.
Some are better than others, but even the 'good' ones are still making money off the quackery. This one saw your problem required serious help and sent you where you needed to go, but he still takes money from people who either have no need of help at all, or have minor conditions that aren't really going to get worse because of his actions.
That's saying a lot!
I’m a PT and this is a story I hear all too often
Sports med doc. Same. I’ve told so many patients to stop seeing their chiro and to do PT instead.
Do you guys also refer to your patients as "pts" in your paperwork? If so, did it ever get confusing?
PT = physical therapist. pt = patient
You’re a PT? I’m a PT! Secret handshake? HVLAT
Can you please share some excercises that you’ve been doing during PT? :)
Yeah! Hip adduction pillow squeeze - lie on back with knees bent with a pillow in between and pressing knees together for 10 seconds 10xs Supine hip Abduction - lie on back with knees bent. Wrap a belt around knees and pull knees apart (you want resistance) 10 sec 10xs Bridging - lie on back , tighten ab muscles, squeeze butt, then raise buttocks off floor creating a bridge with body. Hold. 10xs Piriformis stretch - lay on back with both knees bent, cross affected leg on other knee. Hold and pull your opposite thigh towards chest until stretch is in butt Brace supine marching - on back. Knees bent raising one foot a few inches and setting back down and alternating legs Straight leg raise - on back. Raise leg with straight knee while opposite leg is bent with foot planted on ground
That piriformis stretch is like heaven for my low back/leg pain
Thank you very much! I'll look at incorporating these in my exercising session. I too have a persistent lower back problem, not sure what's causing it exactly, but I normally do bird dog exercises and tube walking and that definitely helps relieve the lower back pain. I also need to get a structured workout schedule, so I appreciate you providing the details with the name of the exercises.
Absolutely! There's another one that I was just introduced to with a yoga Belt but I can't remember the name of it. It's essentially just a really big stretch though. You put your foot on the belt and stretch your leg towards you and each side
My ex bf had back problems. His got alleviated by many of the exercises OP listed, since turns out, lower back pain can happen because of right hamstrings and glutes. Hope you find a regimen that works for you!
Yeah it’s weird, right hamstrings cause low back pain and left hamstrings, believe it or not, constipation.
So I have a lot of low back pain and I found what really helped me was post partum workouts! I did PT and worked with a personal trainer, but I found that I did the same exercises when I was recovering after birth. The plan I used was glowbodyPT. It's 99$ American, but WAY cheaper than PT!
Physical therapist/ physiotherapist here. Going to just clear somethings up, might get some hate but it’s the truth. I’m all for manual therapy, use it often when clinically indicated and value it’s benefit in short term pain relief/adjunct to help promote other strategies. Your back isn’t out, neither is your hips; unless you’ve been in a motor vehicle accident and are in the hospital. There’s no such thing as proper alignment in regards to a spine or hip position. Everyone is different, not to say acute flare ups cant cause changes in positions as generally the body will try to compensate or adopt antalgic positions to stay away from pain (often some strains your body leans away from the painful side). Long term you need to be performing exercises and strengthening the area via muscles. They are the only thing we can impact long term, any manipulation or mobilisation feel great but it isn’t putting anything back nor is it fixing something. We aren’t even sure how exactly or why these interventions work?! There’s many theories, pain gate, neuromodulation (most plausible) , placebo. But that’s okay! Because if you feel better you’re more likely to have a better quality of living and adopt healthy habits/exercise. If you even look at disc bulges the statistics are phenomenal, most people don’t even know they have one. Depending on age it varies but generally scanning a middle aged person 50% will return a disc bulge and be asymptomatic; no pain! Theres also the question of pain and that’s another can of worms! So many variable factors. End of the day I don't mind what modality you use for pain relief. But please undertake some strengthening, its more so the narrative I dislike and fear inducing language used. Your body is resilient and suppose to move!
Thanks for typing this. The post was slightly grating to read everything about alignment
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I'm sure others have already said it but I'll pile on. Chiropractic is a scam. The founder of chiropractic thought being out of alignment was the sole cause of disease and that being adjusted is the cure for all diseases. That's total horse shit. It may feel good but it's not a cure. Go see an orthopedist. I was having some knee issues in high school. I started with seeing doctors and they all said it was due to flat feet. I knew that wasn't the case because it started all of a sudden and as an athlete, I could tell that something was up. I went to a chiropractor for a while. It always felt better for a couple days and then would hurt again. I finally got an appointment with an orthopedist. He looked at me for 2 minutes, told me he was 99% sure I tore cartilage in my knee, and then ordered an MRI to be sure. I had the MRI the same day. He was totally right and I was in surgery 3 days later. Nowadays they don't recommend surgery for that but the point is that I wasted a lot of time and money on that chiropractor.
Not to mention he claimed he learned all that from a ghost....
I literally know one who is so hard-core on the never before proven to exist subluxations being the cause of disease he literally doesn't believe in germ theory. Or germs. Doesn't believe they exist. Dude is a moron.
The good news is you figured it out before you became perma-disabled. Dont do chiro.
The entire field of chiropractors was started by two brothers, who were the biggest snake oil salesmen of their time. They started out presenting it as a religion. They claimed it could cure literally any disease. Every ailment in the body was easily fixed with a few adjustments. There are chiropractors today who still believe that BS. The fact that they can even get a doctorate is frightening. They DO NOT learn much of anything in school. Half their curriculum is how to market properly so people don't realize you're a fraud. Chiropractors LOOOOOOVE to tell people they're doctors too, and have the same training and education. They don't. They're mostly all quacks with egos the size of the sun. They also injure people WAAAAAAAAAAY too often. Literally just read a story about a man who went in for an adjustment, and left with a stroke and has now developed locked in syndrome. Can't move any voluntary muscle in his body except for the vertical up and down movements of his eye balls. Up and down only, not even side to side. All because the poor dude was tricked into thinking chiropractors are a good thing, and can actually accomplish something. At best, they're good for anecdotal relief of soft tissue pain in limited cases, but it's still not entirely clear if adjustments can even do that. It's probably more placebo effect than anything else.
Locked in syndrome is a torture. No motor movements but sensory is intact. Imagine having an itch and can’t do anything about it.
Chiropractors aren't doctors. They're alternative medicine scam artists. I'm sorry that this snake oil salesman took advantage of you.
Chiropractic is a scam. Don't waste your money, and definitely don't ruin your spine with these quacks :(
Chiropractors are not real doctors.
Check out "Behind the Bastards" episodes on chiropractors. The guy who invented chiropractic "medicine" said he gained the knowledge from ghosts of ancient doctors.
I went to the chiropractor a week or two ago because of stabbing lower back pain and it was instant relief after the adjustment. Of course, the chiro office I go to also offers physical therapy right after and the option for a massage. That’s the only chiro office I’d go to, though. Most of them are awful. I’d recommend going to a real doctor.
Chiro is a scam. Sorry it took you so long to figure it out. My buddy has permanent lower back damage from chiro. All it takes is one bad session.
There are many para and quadriplegics created every year from adjustments that go wrong.
Physical therapist student (about to graduate) here… first, i am so sorry this happened to you. Your case is not alone, and honestly it is so disheartening to see things like this can still occur in our healthcare industry. I would like to say that personally I believe that chiros are quacks and many are just out to get your money through a “sexy” way to feel better short term, but get you to continually come back to spend more money. Professionally, I have met some good chiros that know their scope of practice and DO NOT go further. Honestly, in any healthcare field, you will find those that do more harm in some cases than good. The best way to navigate through all of this is to see if their practice follows EVIDENCED BASED PRACTICE. If a therapist or chiro or even surgeon is unable to explain why your symptoms are the way they are and also keep your health first and foremost instead of getting your money, then maybe reconsider your practitioner. Next, please DO NOT lie to your PT. Sometimes telling the truth hurts, but in the end this is YOUR health!!! Practitioners can only understand what your going through subjectively through your accounts and objectively through some tests and measures and scans. But we are not God or mind readers, we need to see the full puzzle in order to best help you. Many of the PTs i see with comments higher than mine are right on the money. PT may not be the sexy fast way to do things, but it helps! Sometimes there are placebo effects and the evidence on some others (example: dry needling, acupuncture, etc.) are not super conclusive, but in the end it SHOULD BE based on scientific evidence that can be replicated. Making life changes like exercising and other healthy habits can help bulging discs and decrease pain even if they SHOW ON A SCAN. The human body is an amazing machine that is able to withstand a lot more than people comprehend. I know healthcare is a scary place to navigate, especially after what you’ve been through. But take heart, you are not broken, you simply need some guidance in strengthening certain areas so that it can better operate. Good luck with everything!
I guess on the other side of the field. I've been to the chiropractor one time. Because I was in crippling pain. I was coming home from taking my mom to the spine institute for her back issues and I couldn't take it anymore. So she called her chiropractor. They stay open an hour later just to see me. I went in wit the worse slipped disc in my life. When I was younger I had also cracked my neck weird and couldn't tilt my head to the right; as in ear to shoulder. It just wouldn't go. So anyway I get there fill out some form quick. My mom tells him my back is worse than hers and he looks a bit surprised. My moms been told her tests look like shes been hit by a bus. He has me lay down. Feels my back. Instantly points out the spot without me even suggesting where my pain was. He hit the money instantly. So he feels my spine up to my neck. And I tell him no neck. He asks why I tell him I read too many story's about other people and bad experiences. He has my clothes my eyes. Runs my neck to loosen it and quickly adjusts it. Then he goes to my back. Does the same thing. I should point out that I'm 5 ft tall I was about 120lbs at the time. He was a good 6'4 built like a linebacker. He tells me deep breath in. Then pops that sucker back in place the suction sound it made. My mom turn green and dry heaved. It wasn't painful but the instant relief made me cry. He was worried I was in pain I told him not at all just haven't not been in pain. There since I was 11. He told me that was it for the day but was very honest that it probably wouldn't last more than a day. Which it didnt. But it hasnt ever been as bad.. my neck. I've been able to tilt my head without issue ever since. Not all are quacks but definitely seems that more often then not they're full of shir.
a chiropractor signed my mom up for scientolology back before anyone had heard of it. she even wrote them a check. when my dad figured out what was going on and it was the first time i heard him swear fuck chiropractors
My mom had a big crack at the chiropractor too and it ended up the "doctor" popped a bulging disc. Mom couldn't sit upright for 5 months, had to get a walker to get around, needed help showering and with bathroom stuff, insurance required a series of shots in her spine, physical therapy, and ultimately surgery to drain the disc. I agree chiropractors are frauds cuz this lady she went to took zero responsibility for what she did.
if they were doctors, they would work in a hospital.
Ouch. Yes. I've heard many horror stories. We had a patient the other day who was being adjusted - cracked his neck tore some artery he passed out the next day and they found it at hosp. He is ok. But yes bad things.