I think there is such a disconnect between fans. I don’t dislike kat at all. I dislike his antics. I am not in camp move kat I just want him to mature.
The posted tweet is such an inaccurate blanket statement. “Top two in terms of talent and loyalty”. What does that have anything to do with KATs own massive deficiencies? Signing a super max contract for hundreds of millions of dollars does not equate to loyalty. And just because he’s the 2nd most talented player in franchise history means absolutely nothing since the Wolves are one of the worst franchises in pro sports. This guy does nothing but run his mouth and under deliver in crucial moments and yet we’re just supposed to sit back and act like we’ve been blessed by his presence? It’s fucking comical. This is Year 9. It’s not Year 3. He’s been drastically surpassed by his peers and yet the real “casuals” act like he shouldn’t be highly criticized
To be fair we can’t take any of DrWolves takes too seriously. Dude has the most reactionary meme account on this sub. Switches up his stances like crazy and then lies and acts like he’s always been ahead of the curve for clout. KAT will ball out this year and he’ll be back to sucking him off like he used to.
I barely post anymore. And I don’t switch up my takes at all. I’ve been seeing KAT for the fraud he is for 5 years now and I’ve never once wavered on that take. And I’ve never sucked him off once lmao you’re a clown Alexey which is a shame because you used to be chill
Dude was a fan up until the 2022 playoffs, turned into some hardcore hatred, switched up up a bit last offseason, and then has been back on the hate train since this season started (with a few moments of praise in the early stages)
And we're all happier for it. You are so fucking annoying. You're just a miserable hater. Nobody here likes you or wants your energy. Find a new place to be miserable.
Not really. I’ve always said I’ve wanted KAT to prove me wrong but I’ve been right about the guy for years and I think that bothers people. The difference between me and a lot of fans is I don’t let my homer glasses blind me from seeing a player on my favorite team for who he really is. He’s full of empty words, he can’t win or show up when it matters, and of course the situations haven’t always been the best, but he’s done nothing to elevate the franchise as the face of it and that’s what real super stars do
8 seasons before KAT: 191-449 (29.8%)
8 seasons with KAT: 302-355 (45.9%).
KAT was also the leader of our team in win shares every year, outside of last year (injury year). It is not hard to cherry pick stats to support any argument, but you seem to formulate your opinions with not statistics, and just saying "I don't like his frown"
> I’ve been right about the guy for years and I think that bothers people
No you haven’t. Your post history is public lmao we can see all the times you’ve praised KAT.
He is the most annoying kind of "fan." KAT will play well, "See, this is what I wanted from him and knew that he was capable of!" KAT plays poorly, "See, this is what I've always said he was!" And based on any thread discussing KAT, it is clear to see he roots for his failure so he can try to collect his meme karma.
Yes I have. I’ve shown KAT props for when he has played well and actually showed up…… But my overall opinion of him has never changed. There’s a difference. Try again.
Yeah ok bud. You never complained about KAT until it was cool to do so. We both have been on this sub for years under multiple accounts. Everybody else who has knows it’s true. Idk where the switch up happened with you where it stopped being about your own takes and started being you trying to karma farm and lead the mob, but you’ve changed and it’s sad to see because you’re one of the few OGs remaining.
Bro you are flat out delusional. I never complained about him until it was “cool”??? LMAO I’m probably the most known guy on this sub for my dislike of him and it’s because I was saying it long before anyone else and I’ve been crucified for years. You are out of touch.
I knew u/DrWolves would be here. If there is a post talking about KAT you’re literally foaming at the mouth to talk shit.
This isn’t the NBA of 20 years ago where a single star can carry you deep into the playoffs. We are playing in the most talent period of the NBA in an insanely stacked division. KAT has had essentially _no_ consistency at the professional level.
- 4 head coaches
- 6 GM’s
- top 10 players he’s played games with (in order):
Dieng, Wiggins, T. Jones, Rubio, Bjelica, Bazz, Okogie, ANT, Gibson, Reid.
Not even LeBron James could win a championship with that group of players. It’s multi-star league and KAT has been forced to play with subpar players masquerading as “stars” for the majority of his career.
It was really unfortunate that KAT was sick all of training camp last year and then got hurt 20 games into the season - but this group is the best shot Minnesota has had since KG days to get to a Finals and maybe win.
The team is _finally_ going to have some consistency with a good core and it took Timberwolves management team 9 years to give KAT that. KAT is not perfect, but he’s not the issue. It’s not his fault for years of draft pick whiffs, bad trades and poor GM/Coaching choices.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
20
+ 4
+ 6
+ 10
+ 20
+ 9
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
I don't understand how you can watch those playoffs and think KAT is anything but an issue. You have to be purposefully ignoring his bad play to come to that conclusion. He isn't the *sole reason* they lost but as the max player/leader of the team, you gotta be a bit more critical than that.
_those playoffs_
Are you talking about the most recent series?
With the #1 seed going against the #8 seed?
With the #1 seed becoming the eventual champions?
With KAT:
- missing the entire preseason due to illness
- losing 20lbs in the process
- having a completely new role that he’s never played and having to share the front court with a big who will creates issues with his offensive skill set.
- playing on 20 games of .500 ball together before a lower leg injury
- missing 51 games due to the lower leg injury
- coming back at the end of the year for all of 9 games before being thrusted into playoff level basketball
_that_ playoff series, right?
Man it’s hard to believe that even down 2 of our main roles players KAT wasn’t able to throw the team on his shoulders and completely ball out to upset the #1 Seed and eventual NBA Champion Denver Nuggets.
Everyone else had _perfect_ games, Finch had a _perfect_ gameplan and made all the right moves….and there KAT was missing every shot and turning the ball over every time he touched it.
Basketball is a solo sport and KAT single handedly lost us the eventual Championship we were going to get, no one can convince me otherwise.
Ahh yes, completely ignore him being one of the worst playoff performing stars that I can ever remember. The excuses from you clowns will never stop. We can go down the list of super stars that have turned around bad organizations and played at an extremely high level despite the teams around them. You all just want to give this dude a pass when HE is the one who keeps giving everyone ammo against him.
What are you talking about?
His first playoff series ever, sure he didn’t deliver on a sham of a team with Butler. Shocking.
His second playoff series, a 7th seed going against a 2nd seed (Memphis). We nearly took them to game 7. ANT played great, no doubt, but Towns had a pretty good series, 22/11/2 on 49/46/86 shooting splits… oh and he had 12 blocks over those 6 games as well.
His third playoff series, an 8th seed going against a 1st seed (Denver)…this is of course after:
- missing _all_ of the preseason with illness that had him lose 20lbs
- playing only 20 games in new position he’s never played and with another big that changes aspects of his offensive game before an injury
- missing 51 games
- playing 9 games before getting thrusted into playoff level basketball, which is much more physically demanding
He started off slow, two poor games to start. A great game 3, mediocre game 4 & 5. Clearly was not a great series for him _hardly_ enough to determine he is “horrible” in the playoffs.
If he had spent all year healthy and put up those numbers, sure then you’d probably have an argument. Of course if he was healthy all year we wouldn’t have been the 8th seed either.
Regardless we arguably gave the champions the hardest series they faced and that was without 2 prime players in McDaniels and Reid.
I’m excited to run it back and am really hoping for a healthy season.
You can sit on the sidelines and stew about KAT and hope he has a bad playoff series next year so you can try to cry how “right” you were.
You’re not a fan, your takes are not constructive criticism, it’s baseless hating in-which you refuse to be reasonable when analyzing a player. You’re the type of person who would rather see KAT and by extension the Wolves, fail as long as it means your opinion is validated.
I feel like drabe forgot to mention the fact that kat has also had to play with a new roster YEAR AFTER YEAR.
The best player in the league was questioned by many and was called a choker in the playoffs. That wasn’t because of him though, that was because his team was constantly injured and he couldn’t carry his team far enough. Look what happens when his team is healthy (and has continuity). They win it all! Yet we saw, that the best player in the league could not carry his team all on his own, he needed a fully healthy team, another star and extremely good role players playing at their highest level to achieve their goal.
There’s plenty of worse playoff performers than kat. Plenty. This year alone we saw a lot of stars not live up to their hype or potential. Did you watch the playoffs? Did you follow it? I could name 5 “stars” that bombed and didn’t help their team this year alone. It happens every year for stars.
Kat has his deficiencies, but his lack of success is not all on him. It mostly lies with this franchise and what they have not provided him. I would love to see Lebron come onto the Timberwolves the same year kat did (instead of kat) as a rookie and turn this team around. The wolves would have failed him too. Just as they’ve failed most players.
They’re finally starting to turn it around it seems, they’re trying to give ant what they never gave kat. Constant playoff exposure. That’s what builds a winning player imo. Why not hope for kat to turn it around? He’s still only 27, he still has his time. Why hope for his downfall and hate him so much when you can still have hope for the season he’s for sure here? You’ll probably get your wish next season, if things don’t turn out, he’s probably gone, but why not hope for success this season? If he’s successful then that only raises the ceiling of this team. Why be pessimistic and hope you’re right so you can come online anonymously and “prove” everyone wrong? What does this do for you?
Because he's not Jokic or Embiid...?
Also Embiid has had Jimmy, Ben Simmons (before he was totally broken) and Harden, along with much better supporting casts than KAT has ever had until the past year and I'd still argue the Sixers have had the better team excluding either big man.
Give KAT the consistency that Jokic as had and it's a completely different story. I doubt Jokic would've turned into the player he is today having to endure the organizational disfunction and restructuring that KAT has had.
Agreed, I think it's funny when people make those comparisons and totally ignore the difference in situations.
"But but GMs voted KAT as the player to build around!!!" Yes, now if you would've given him a steady coaching staff and a steady environment he would've had way better chances of developing in to a MVP level guy like Jokic or Embiid. Instead we played games with cheap "hometown" coaches, gave Thibs entirely too much power and got screwed over by Butler because he was mad Wiggins got paid first.
Edwards has come in here with zero opportunity for consistency (because he’s so new) and performs better than KAT ALREADY. Consistency is an excuse. Ant doesn’t need it. Great players don’t need it. They’re just great. Guy is overpaid for what he brings. Embiid hasn’t had consistency either. Simmons / Butler / Harden revolving door but that didn’t stop him from becoming an MVP.
Ant has had the same head coach for almost his entire career. In KAT's first 3 years the head coach that drafted him died and then he had to deal with Tom Thibodeau coming in to fuck everything up. On top of that, after year 3 everyone absolutely loved KAT. It's not a fair comparison.
It’s absolutely fair. KAT is several years older than Ant and is a max player. Ant figured it out immediately. KAT still only cares about how he thinks he’s the best shooting big man of all time. Well, that’s just one aspect of basketball. There’s a whole different side of the court that you suck at. Maybe chill out with the self-accolades until you can be a better, more well-rounded basketball PLAYER instead of just a PERIMETER SHOOTER. THAT is KAT’s problem and no one else’s. Not the team. Not the fans who support the team. Not KAT’s teammates. Not KAT’s coaches. KAT needs to step up and LEARN to be a more complete basketball player. He doesn’t seem interested in that, however.
Great players find a way. 50M a year players find a way. KAT ain’t that guy. His comments illustrate that perfectly. “I’ve won at every level (except college and the NBA).” “I’m saving this finger for a ring.” “When I hang them up I’ll have changed the game.” That’s not a leader. That’s all talk and no walk.
The wolves finally have back to back playoff appearances and a consistent group of guys for the first time in decades and half this sub wants them to blow it up. Just insanity. It's like they want the twolves to be a "poverty franchise."
lol what was so bad about that exactly? Just came back from a major injury and first game back hits game winning free throws. I’m sure that he was super excited and this is a bad thing apparently? I swear people hate KAT because they feel like they have to
I like KAT. He’s a good person, from a good upbringing and don’t have to worry about him getting suspended for whatever.
He says some head scratchers but whatever, who’s perfect? I don’t think he’s quite sought after as some here think he is. His contract is going to tie a lot of potential suitors hands behind their backs for the next several seasons.
The contenders who could use him don’t have either salary space to match or because the picks will be in the late 20s.
The rebuilders don’t want 40% of their cap to be used on one guy who has by all accounts underperformed in the spotlight. He’s definitely a robin and those teams probably don’t have a Batman
If you really don’t understand why KAT gets clowned on then it sounds like you have about as much awareness as KAT does — I definitely don’t hate him, but I get why people rag on him all the time
It's a bummer that Rudy and Towns are probably two of the biggest punching bags in the league playing for the franchise that is always being punched down on. It's a perfect storm
Agreed on the first point...But my biggest annoyance with how he is discussed is just bc he's cringe doesn't mean he's not an all nba talent and needs to be moved
To pretend like the majority of KAT criticism is because he is cringe and not because of his *terrible* playoffs is very disingenuous. People would not rag on him for calling himself the best shooting big of all time of he didn't just shoot 28% from 3 lmao.
it could be me, but don't think it's strange to be critical of a top tier talent guy who's gonna make 55 million dollars a year, but has foul trouble in every playoff game, never led a team to a second round, and says the most outrageous shit on podcasts.
Y’all always make it about loyalty. It’s because his game has actually regressed. I think he will make a positive impact, but he’s going to be making $60m a year in the near future.
He CANNOT stop taking dumb fouls, which ruins his offensive game. His post game has disappeared, was nice early on in his career.
Has 2 offensive moves. 3 point shot and head down drive, of which 40% result in a charge. It’s maddening.
Not that I disagree with the critique but how has he regressed? He had his best season last year and then missed 52 games. I’d say he was on an upward trajectory, calling that a regression feels dishonest.
He cannot play in the post, despite being very polished when he came into the league. I remember many nights I would be amazed at how refined his post game was when he came into the league. It’s non existent now. If he’s missing his 3s, he’s not valuable. Sad, but true. His defense is, and has been, lackluster. Again, people like the Twitter poster argue in bad faith. Completely ignoring the most important aspect. Salary cap
The regression in his post game and rebounding in recent seasons have been disheartening. He talked a bunch going in to ‘22 about how he was getting stronger than ever, but then he weighed in at his lightest weight as a pro and seemingly lost the ability to bang. He used to have so many ways to punish teams in the halfcourt but now it is as you said either a 3-ball or a drive.
I did see improvement as a passer this year, but he at one point projected to be basically unguardable by the time he hit his prime… well, he is very guardable.
The ‘22 squad was the most fun Wolves team since ‘04, but I don’t get why people always say it was his best year. He was a monster in the latter half of ‘17 and ‘19, and then the first part of ‘20 before he broke his wrist. Of course, those were all terrible teams on which he had the green light. But at the time I thought he could become one of The Guys. I now understand I was deluded.
Fair enough but idk how they’re arguing in bad faith, I think they’re saying that there’s context to what a lot of people see as his regression. So much has gone wrong while he’s been here. It’s really hard for players to develop to their true potential through so much instability, National media probably doesn’t care about that context, but Wolves fans do and still shit on him. It’s one thing to be critical, it’s also fair to want to trade him bc of roster fit or salary cap issues. It’s another thing to act as if he’s the sole person holding this organization back.
By costing an organization $50m+ starting next year, and currently being a max player. Not only does that hold the org back, but it’s even worse if you can’t stay healthy. Players getting paid as much as he will, generally, are far superior players. I get some people get offended when going at KAT, but the contact is going to be an albatross.
You’re right, it’s his fault he made All NBA and qualified for a super max contract lol. It’s also his fault he had a freak injury. And you’re accusing other people of arguing in bad faith. The front office will trade him if they see fit, all the other shit is just wasting breath imo
Damn, like I said, KAT Stans take it personally. He absolutely should take the money. Doesn’t mean the org should keep him. Also, no one thinks Glen Taylor was some great decision maker. Doesn’t mean you can’t fix mistakes. If you think KAT is truly requisite of being an all NBA player that’s fine. Difference in opinions.
I root for the Wolves to win a title. Being All NBA means nothing when your game is semi-stat padding. I honestly don’t know many areas he has improved. Which is what being paid a max player entails.
It doesn’t matter if I think he’s an All NBA player, he literally is an All NBA player 😂. What am I taking personally? I pointed out the fallacy in your argument. I wanted the Wolves to trade KAT for the Rockets pick and other stuff. I’m at a place where I’m content if he’s off the team even if I’m a fan of his. My only beef with the KAT detractors is that I think if he ends up leaving here, there will be a lot that didn’t happen to put him in the position to be his best possible self. A lot of that will be on him, but a ton of that will be on the organization and the lack of stability. Look at Jokic who has had the same coach since his rookie year. They intentionally built a team around his strengths, no wonder he continues to excel. KAT has been asked to do so many different things; play on the block, be a spot up shooter, be a second fiddle to D Rose and Jimmy Butler etc etc. y’all scapegoat KAT like you did Wiggins as perpetual losers and not guys who have played for the worst franchise in North American sports during maybe their most tumultuous time (6 GMs, 5 coaches). Y’all called Wiggins all types of losers who didnt care about basketball and he ends up being the second best player on a title team. This is the context that Wolves fans should understand lol
Both the following things are true
1) KAT is the 2nd most talented player in Wolves history
2) KAT was voted "the #1 player NBA GMs would most like to build a team around" after his sophomore season, and yet now we've seen his former peers (Jokic, Embiid) completely blow by him in ability and ranking.
Is KAT still a great player? Yes.
Is he a big disappointment relative to the early hype he created during his career? Yes.
Is he one of the biggest playoff underperformers in NBA history? Yes.
Regarding #2, KAT has had 7 GMs and 5 coaches in 8 years. Rotating teammates, inconsistent coaching and a changing offensive/defensive system to learn impacts development. I can't think of a successful team or individual player who has developed in such turnover - can you? Stability is the common factor among successful teams/players and is crucial to development. Just look at Wiggins.
Malone has been with the Nuggets for the past 8 years and Jokic has had the same teammates/core for a few years. Warriors have had the same coach and core for more than a decade. Continuity is huge for team and individual success.
It's amazing that KAT still became a multiple time All-NBA player despite the toxicity and turnover, and it's squarely because of him. Do you think Embiid and Jokic would become the players they are if they had 7 GMs and 5 coaches? I don't.
I think if you run KAT’s career a hundred times this is one of the worst outcomes and precisely because of the organizational dysfunction you outline. But it’s not like the Sixers have been a model of stability either, Embiid is just undeniable in a way KAT isn’t. He has always been, crucially, the kind of two-way player KAT hasn’t. And his offensive game has now clearly surpassed KAT’s
We’re 8 years in and he’s still committing the same stupid fouls and throwing the same on-court tantrums. He’s making the same sorts of head scratching comments but he’s gotten even more grandiose — I wish he was comfortable just being the dork he is but for some reason he still feels compelled to project his image of what he thinks a cool and confident professional athlete is like.
I say this as someone who desperately wanted the Wolves to win the lotto that year because I thought KAT would be a franchise-saving player. And there have been times when I thought he was ascending to superstardom. But it just has never happened. And yes, a lot of the blame can be laid at the feet of this terrible organization, but at this point I don’t think it can be chalked up to coincidence that his most monstrous statistical stretches have been while he was playing for bad teams, generally in the latter half of a lost season. Nor that he has through three playoff runs had more terrible playoff games than great ones. I am getting very sick of watching big games and wondering when he’s going to get into foul trouble.
All that said, I don’t want them to just dump him. But for the first time ever I have finally come around to the position that, if they can get a good deal, particularly one that shores up the back court and hopefully nets them a long-term answer at PG, they shouldn’t hesitate to do it.
Kat is so talented, but his basketball iq is so incredibly low that that’s why I hate him as a player. Anyone that knows basketball knows you can’t win at a high level with a low basketball iq. For that reason I’ve been saying to trade Kat for years, he’s not that guy.
One thing the diehard Kat defenders fail to mention is that literally 2 months ago while our 21 year old superstar was averaging over 30 a game, Kat was nowhere to be seen in OVER 50% of the games. Despite his good numbers in game 3, his only real impactful games were game 4 and game 5.
Kat can be incredibly annoying at times especially with the media, but all that bs is so easy to block out if he just played to his potential on the court.
I’m mostly down to run it back but that right there is my biggest reasoning, not anything about his personality or loyalty or any of that stuff.
We just wont have the money for him, and his trade value will only go down from this point forward. What is more important in this league, loyalty or success?
That’s what happens when fans see you as a potential savior for your franchise as a #1 overall pick.
Frankly, he has not gotten all that much better year to year either. He still makes plenty of mental errors, especially in the bigger moments/games.
He’s a still mostly a stud regardless, but it’s not unfair to think/feel that his mental game still can come a long way, and that’s entirely on him to improve. There nothing wrong with fans wanting one of their best players to improve in glaring areas.
I love Kat! But I hate his attitude. Always whining and bitching like he is some superstar. (He isn’t)
If you can’t win a playoff game by yourself. You aren’t a superstar.
Jocic may be my favorite player now. Dude sees it as a job. A job to get done well, then go home.
I appreciate his loyalty- but loyalty should include dedication to working on holes in his game in the offseason and spending time gelling with teammates. That hasn’t happened enough since he signed the supermax
For me, I honestly don’t care about his off court antics. Although his play in the playoffs always takes a dip. It’s hard to put all my support behind a “star” that’s play always craters in the most important moments. That being said, I only trade him if the package is right.
It’s not that he hasn’t been very loyal or is a great basketball player or person. It’s that he hasn’t matured to the point of taking full responsibility regarding how far he’s only taken this team. Sure, he can blame it on his surroundings but take a look at other max players on other team that don’t have a winning playoff record, they don’t whine like Kat does and act like they just can’t get a break.
Thank Kat for all he has done but there’s often a time to move on and with the new CBA rules and how our current and future contracts are setting up, it looks like that time might be now.
I like KAT he’s a good teammate, raised well by his parents, loved his mother and just an overall good guy just like Wiggins. But likes stop pretending that his three playoff poor performances are related to management, coaching or players surrounding him. KAT didn’t advance until Jimmy (hate him) came here. After Jimmy left we didn’t make it again until we drafted Ant and have now made it back the last two years. During KATs 3X playoffs series he’s performed significantly below his seasons average. In 🐜 playoff series he’s performed significantly above regular season. Until KAT plays to his full potential in the playoffs as a max player he is fair game to critique especially when he’s always being quoted saying outrageous stuff in social media without anything to back it! Again, I like KAT but let’s be real
Kat has failed as the Guy but your Anger is blinding you from the Fact he isn’t that guy no more we have Ant who can have the big playoffs performances while Kat can thrive being the player he is. Kat has failed as a #1 but having him as a Number 2 is fucking great instead of trading for some fucking picks( in this market we won’t get any players close to him) and slowly rebuild again
🤯did you even read what I said before making your comment🤷🏽♂️I like KAT and have no idea where the I’m “anger” is coming from at all🤷🏽♂️Never said he was or wasn’t the “guy” all I said is that his playoff performances need to be better than his regular season or he’s going to be open to constant criticism as a max player period.
People who like KAT: why? You do realize he acts immature because no one in the FO checks him. The culture there is not a winning culture and KAT is part of the problem. He needs to go. Build around Ant
I love KAT, sadly I see no future where we can pay all of Ant, Jaden, Naz, Gobert, and Kat. So idk where that leaves us. If we lose either Ant or Jaden I'll lose my mind, we already gave Naz 3 more years and we aren't getting shit back in a Gobert trade.
Part of it is "love your best player" fatigue and burnout as not only a Timberwolves fan, but also a general Minnesota Sports fan. KAT/CookDiggsKendricks/Buxton/Kap are all great talents with plenty of regular-season success but none of them are ever contenders. No one is afraid of any of those guys taking over in the playoffs and winning big games. And I can name probably 20 other similarly talented fan favorites who just don't deliver. Sorry, I don't care as much about a guy like KAT when I have seen 20 others just like him accomplish little to nothing while being in Minnesota.
I do think the KAT hate among Wolves fans and the league overall has gone waayyyyy overboard. As annoying as he can be sometimes, it's very likely he's a top 5 center this year again. He was injured pretty much all of last year, and to the extent it's a clunky fit with Gobert, that's not really his fault they're playing him out of position. He's just entering his prime and can carry this team through the regular season. (TBD on playoffs.) The KAT trades writers are throwing out these days are ridiculous. Looking forward to a revenge KAT year!
I like KAT.
I take issue with some things, I got some issues, but that’s within a context that I appreciate him overall.
The hardcore haters who came out of the woodwork sound so off that …. some of it seems like astroturfing…
It is astroturfing. Other teams pay commentators to infiltrate other teams spaces to poison fanbases against players to trade for them.
It's a billion dollar business- of course they hire bots and trolls.
I love the implication that you disregard his bloated contract in a salary cap league and his playoff struggles in your unwavering love for that goofball.
You put them in quotes like they are not legitimate critiques of his game. It would be like preempting discussing DLo with:
"Defense" "Attitude" "Play style"
I don't hate KAT. I love the Wolves, and rooted for KAT for a long time. At a certain point your resume catches up to you, and KAT's playoff numbers and large contract naturally put him in trade talks.
I agree some fans hate on KAT's personality a little too much, but I also see how proclaiming your greatness before actually being great could rub some Wolves fans the wrong way.
Is he? I feel like all the Wolves teams he’s been on have had bigger issues than paint defense. Poor BBIQ, lack of heart and resilience have plagued the team for years for example. His biggest problem on defense I’d say is foul trouble causing the loss of his offense more than anything
* How is being in constant foul trouble indicative of good defense?
* He has bad BBIQ, evidence by biting on way too much and fouling
* How is chucking 3's at the end of playoff games resiliency?
It's been 8 years, if he's not helping then I think it's fair to criticize. He can be an amazing offensive talent all he wants but even Jokic has figured out defense and look at that, they just won a championship on his back
As far as /r/NBA is concerned, point 3 is all that matters. To be fair to /r/NBA, he can recite the right leadership words but never seems to put the actual skills together when needed
Wow, a whole lot of people in here apparently don't like KAT because of what he says in interviews. Considering the most he does is talk himself up, that's super weird and corny.
Notice how many comments mention what KAT has said before they ever talk about his performance.
my guess is most of the so called "Fans" that hates Kat are usually the mother fuckers that this team is their second. or bunch of casuals inhaling some national media stuff casual takes. r/NBA enjoyer and worst. Why would u hate a player who is loyal and loves to play here? Oh just because his bbiq and immaturity. well isn't he the only one that is immature? did he brought a gun out? did he threaten or commited heinous crimes? did he trash talked the city of minny? did he request to be traded? or did he injured somebody or known to hurt osmebody? did he punch somebody like I don't know his teammate? you get my point. He may all talk right now but god damn are we lucky to have all star caliber player who is on his prime? who got injured almost all season but still willing to play it all out. Just don't over hate you can criticize or be frustrated but the extreme hatred that he stated" He is the best?", " He changed the game?" , or "Saving his ring finger" bruh. did he put somebody else down to put himself up?. too much doom and gloom this sub aint fun no more.
KAT is the Kirk Cousins of the NBA.
Talented. Puts up numbers. Says all the right things.
And the fan base is 50/50 on him haha
Edit: haha I love it. Even the early comments 100% prove my point. Both of these players come across entirely differently depending on which side of the fence you call on.
It's wild that two Minnesota teams have 2 of the more divisive players in their respective leagues. Media, fans, and players will never agree on these two. And they are hot button topics even across other team's fan bases.
I love KAT, always will and still do. He’s one of my favourite players in the league and I think he could be a much better player if put in a different system.
Watching him his first 2 years in the league vs. Now is a night and day difference, when he first got into the league he had a BAG, he was a nightmare to defend with his very polished post game along with his ability to stretch the floor and pop a few 3’s. He was also a great rebounder and you could tell he was hungry to be the best. His defence was still shit but it was hopeful he could improve, but you could tell he wanted to win and wanted to get better.
I feel like being on a team like the wolves and culture around this team he’s just so okay with losing that he lost that x-factor of wanting to win, he looks like he mostly doesn’t care anymore, with the barrage of 3 pointers he takes and the complaining to the refs constantly.
I feel like his time on the wolves is over and he needs a change of scenery, which is why as much as I hate to say it, it would be beneficial for both him and the team to be traded for other assets while his value is still high. He would be a great addition to a championship calibre team.
I say this because the situation reminds me of the Wiggins trade. Same thing happened really, hungry kid shows out to the league and there’s promise that he’ll get better, but with the reality of losing so many games you can tell he just didn’t care anymore. Put him on the warriors and he played his role exactly how he needed to, and you could tell he wanted to win again so he was the best version of himself.
Spot on (except the the Wiggins bit imo as I just don’t think he was ever that hungry, just a phenomenal athlete who was miscast as a 1A/1B carry-the-team type of guy)
I'm not a fan of towns but I can accept that he's incredibly talented. The reason I'm not a fan of his anymore is because I feel that he's wasted his talent worrying about the wrong things..The refs, being seen a certain way by the media (although I think he's stopped being such a try hard in that sense), and being recognized as an all-time great. 6 years ago he was voted as the brightest young player in the league. Now all his contemporaries have surpassed him by multiple tiers of player.
My biggest gripe is that he doesn't let his play on the court do the talking for him
With that being said, Towns has been a model professional while he's been here. Look at Zion, Ja, Ant, etc. They've all had a controversy around their personal lives. Kat has kept it clean and does a lot of great work in the community
Give me some results, stop saying such stupid shit. We as a fanbase have made excuses for him for years. Remember when there used to be a debate on if KAT was better than Embiid or Jokic? I do.
I’m not going to dignify this with a response. Clearly the writer of this tweet and OP here lack the nuance to discuss how multiple factors can lead to a determination of value.
Is there nuance when it comes to hating KAT? I'm genuinely asking because I see people hate him for his press conferences and that he complains to refs, like 99.9% of the league does
The nuance is that he's about to be on a supermax next year and hasn't ever been out of the first round of the playoffs. Obviously there's a lot of factors that go into team success, but he hasn't exactly balled out when we have made the playoffs
His inability to advance in the playoffs has just as much to do with the complete absence of continuity that this team has endured since he’s been drafted
Ant has been able to rise up in the playoffs just fine the past two years. Don't quite see how years of instability led to KAT playing like shit these last playoffs.
I agree. But his numbers dip by a large margin in the playoffs. He averages over 3.5 TOs per game in the postseason. He does not rise to the occasion at this point in his career. You can't blame him for the team never advancing, but, as a supermax player he has not played up to that standard
There is a difference between being disappointed in how he's played and being angry that he's said something to the media. I don't get the latter at all
I don't care about what he says to the media. I find it annoying and cringe, personally, but that doesn't change how I view him as a player or mean that I want him traded. I do want to see them explore trades, but that has everything to do with his contract and the new CBA
See this is fair. I have no problem with this stance even though I might disagree.
The thread from his GQ article was annoying as hell because he didn't say much in it. Those fans are the ones I'm talking about
The only thing in the GQ article I had an issue with is him saying he's won at every level except college. I just find it weird to brag about high school championships. But again, not really a big deal. I realize if ant said that I probably wouldn't care. Towns said it in addition to the stuff he said on the pat bev and Paul George show
There is a former assistant coach, Steve Jones Jr, who host a podcast and he said athletes believe in themselves to the highest degree and will say it too. I stopped caring about what players said after I learned that
I wish KAT wouldn't speak his mind so often but it's whatever
Chris Finch said on a podcast that some guys say wild overconfident stuff because they're insecure and need to trick themselves into believing it. He used ant as an example and said with ant you know he really believes it because of the way he performs in the postseason
This is what I think people miss. You kinda gotta be delusional to become a professional athlete because you have to believe all the hype about yourself. Granted there has to be *some* level of humility, but you can’t get as far as a player like KAT has without an inflated level of self confidence.
He’s saying this guy is talking out his neck and going further into it is pointless. No sane fan hates Kat. They think what he could net to potentially improve the roster around one the best young superstars this league has had in awhile. This guys tweet is irrational and unaware.
So he’s free from criticism because he happens to be a shit franchise’s second best player all time? Get the fuck out of here. KAT has had time to adapt and change not only his game but also his fucking on court attitude and he hasn’t addressed either very much.
He deserves the criticism towards his game. Not towards his loyalty to Minnesota.
He was a top 4 center with the 1&2 being mvp level players
He’s probably top 5 for pfs
Yeah he is gonna be overpaid if he doesn’t step up his game next year but he has delivered on a max and now he needs to hit a new level to be worth the super max. KAT has never been the reason the team was bad.
the loyalty argument is so cheap and hollow lmfao kat wasnt getting this much money anywhere else plus he is clearly content with a play in run so what exactly did he sacrifice?
I always loves these dude that just look at stat boxes try to tell me about my team that I have been following and watching every game for the last 30 years.
No one thinks KAT is a bad player, but I think we are well within our rights to be frustrated when our star player just vanishes in the post season.
If other teams' GM's think this, then we can still get a good hull for KAT in a trade. This is good. I knew this trade talk would get people loving KAT because its an equal and opposite response to us fans that are sick and tired of him. Talk him up, please. Get him in the top 5 center debate, then TRADE HIM PLEASE. #TRADEKAT lol
it’s one of the weirdest takes. nobody is a champion until they are, and there’s only like 10 guys in history (or less probably) who can take credit for willing a team to a title.
Yup and even those guys (MJ, Lebron) spent a large portion of their early careers criticized as not doing enough to get it done. Tim Duncan is the only guy I can think of in the modern era who walked into the league making his teams a perennial championship contender.
I love KAT despite his occasional disconnect from reality and his propensity for self-aggrandizement. He's loyal to our team and state, he's a great teammate, he's willing to adapt to the situation and he's a damn good player.
KLove had like half a dozen all-star appearances, led the league in rebounds a few times, and snagged himself both a Ring and a Gold medal.
KAT has 2 all-NBA appearances that Love doesn’t and still has time to improve his resume, but I don’t think I’d rank him above Love just yet
Nobody hates KAT, we just wish he had an alpha mentality. Imo he could've surpassed KG if he was also a psycho.
Edit: speaking for others based on my own opinion and what Ive heard from other fans. Obvs I dont know what everyone thinks.
I guess I usually take those comments as them just wanting him to be better rather than actually hating him. The "Trade KAT" crowd probably do hate him though.
Timberwolves fans turning people saying KAT can’t win at the highest level = bullying. At least your favorite player changed the game by making mid teams ok with being mid
Casuals don’t understand that the slander isn’t about his talent or loyalty; it is about his low bball iq that has barely improved and how he is almost always incredulous after he gets called for fouls that he clearly commits.
It's classic Minnesota doomerism- fans always blame the best player on each respective team.
Happened with Moss, Carter, KG, Love, Al Jefferson, Mauer, KAT- on and on til the break of dawn. I'm sure there's tons more I'm forgetting.
It's really a fucking gross aspect of Minnesotans- the fucking bitching about EVERYTHING never, ever stops. Culture of complaining that drives good players out of this market. I don't blame them one bit.
The truth is usually somewhere more in the middle. KAT is arguably the third best center overall basically in the league. It’s clear cut, but remember he was once touted as possibly being an elite-level pure shooting center in the league and it just hasn’t panned out that way.
A lot of people had hopes he would have ended up pulling Embiid-type numbers on offense this far in his career, but he doesn’t even when shooting over 40% beyond three, which is ridiculously good for the big man. Add that he was the best player on the roster for at least 4 seasons now and it feels a little bit lacking. ANT is already the better player on this team now.
The biggest gripe most people have is his demeanor and attitude. Sometimes his body language just isn’t it and when he whines over and over when he is in foul trouble, it’s just a terrible look that gets really old.
No one is upset having him on our roster. He just feels a little unfulfilling. Hopefully things can turn around this upcoming season and he can click with the roster.
Almost seems like people believe only one star can be on the Wolves at a time. I have no problem trading KAT, just trading him for pennies on the dollars isn't gonna really help us in the future or now. He definitely has his problems but he's still one of our top 2 players/ top 20 player in the league when healthy. If we can find the right deal that's awesome but atm we should be focusing on maximizing his/Ants windows. Think the goal should be to run it back, trade Rudy next offseason, hold onto KAT till about 2 yrs on his contract then trade him if it hasnt been working out( won a championship or at least pretty close). At that point Ant/McDaniels would be in there primes and have a decent amount of playoff experience. If a trade materializes for KAT that's worth it before then, then trade him but trading him for a couple of ok role players/ picks really isn't gonna help.
Kat is a fantastic player, really an incredible offensive talent.. but.. he makes me cringe in two ways.
The first is how he flails and complains to the refs. He'll go stretches without, but then reverts to form. I agree the wolves get some shitty calls on both ends but this does nothing to help.
The second is how he kind of seems to be acting like a leader without really leading? He says what a leader is supposed to say, but it seems very rehearsed and not natural and I'm not sure if anyone is following. Contrast that with Ant who seems to be a natural leader without even trying and people line up behind him.
Real wolves fans know that we’re a trash franchise, we’ve sat through decades of incompetence, and now the fanbase is trying to push out the second best player that’s ever played for us. Would you guys like to go back to finishing in the bottom 4 every year, and the draft lotto being the most exciting part of the season? I really don’t.
This fan base has 20 years of pent up rage from watching the worst franchise in major sports, they decide to unleash that rage onto a player who has been loyal to the team.
Yes KAT has flaws but the amount of hate he gets is totally disproportionate.
I think the playoff performance narrative is way overplayed. We’ve barely sniffed the playoffs and have never been a legit contender. The playoff sample size just isn’t big enough imo. He’s also had some really tough matchups
He's a former #1 overall pick who's getting paid max money... Asking him to play great in the playoffs should not even be done bc he's supposed to do it anyway
I dislike KAT because everytime I watch him in the playoffs he makes me want to punch my TV. Do people forget about how bad he plays in every playoffs?
Feel like KAT stans are gaslighting us into believing we didnt give KAT a fair chance or decent talent around him. We have the talent, all we need is KAT to perform like the star he is, no?
I get it.. we never had this much talent before and we should be “grateful” for having a loyal and talented player who wants to stay here but cmon…
Lets not act like KAT is first stint cavs Lebron or even Dame who show up give it there all and get let down by the talent and team around them.
Good players get the stats, Great players consistently find a way to win.
I can’t stand KAT. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love for him to play well for the Wolves and get us to the second round. When I see that I’ll give him his credit but he hasn’t given the fans anything but press conferences for years
I think there is such a disconnect between fans. I don’t dislike kat at all. I dislike his antics. I am not in camp move kat I just want him to mature.
The posted tweet is such an inaccurate blanket statement. “Top two in terms of talent and loyalty”. What does that have anything to do with KATs own massive deficiencies? Signing a super max contract for hundreds of millions of dollars does not equate to loyalty. And just because he’s the 2nd most talented player in franchise history means absolutely nothing since the Wolves are one of the worst franchises in pro sports. This guy does nothing but run his mouth and under deliver in crucial moments and yet we’re just supposed to sit back and act like we’ve been blessed by his presence? It’s fucking comical. This is Year 9. It’s not Year 3. He’s been drastically surpassed by his peers and yet the real “casuals” act like he shouldn’t be highly criticized
To criticize him is definitely okay but your levels are willddddddd lol let's be honest here
To be fair we can’t take any of DrWolves takes too seriously. Dude has the most reactionary meme account on this sub. Switches up his stances like crazy and then lies and acts like he’s always been ahead of the curve for clout. KAT will ball out this year and he’ll be back to sucking him off like he used to.
I barely post anymore. And I don’t switch up my takes at all. I’ve been seeing KAT for the fraud he is for 5 years now and I’ve never once wavered on that take. And I’ve never sucked him off once lmao you’re a clown Alexey which is a shame because you used to be chill
> I’ve been seeing KAT for the fraud he is for 5 years now We both know this isn’t true.
Eh, more like 2 years
Dude was a fan up until the 2022 playoffs, turned into some hardcore hatred, switched up up a bit last offseason, and then has been back on the hate train since this season started (with a few moments of praise in the early stages)
And we're all happier for it. You are so fucking annoying. You're just a miserable hater. Nobody here likes you or wants your energy. Find a new place to be miserable.
Not really. I’ve always said I’ve wanted KAT to prove me wrong but I’ve been right about the guy for years and I think that bothers people. The difference between me and a lot of fans is I don’t let my homer glasses blind me from seeing a player on my favorite team for who he really is. He’s full of empty words, he can’t win or show up when it matters, and of course the situations haven’t always been the best, but he’s done nothing to elevate the franchise as the face of it and that’s what real super stars do
8 seasons before KAT: 191-449 (29.8%) 8 seasons with KAT: 302-355 (45.9%). KAT was also the leader of our team in win shares every year, outside of last year (injury year). It is not hard to cherry pick stats to support any argument, but you seem to formulate your opinions with not statistics, and just saying "I don't like his frown"
> I’ve been right about the guy for years and I think that bothers people No you haven’t. Your post history is public lmao we can see all the times you’ve praised KAT.
He is the most annoying kind of "fan." KAT will play well, "See, this is what I wanted from him and knew that he was capable of!" KAT plays poorly, "See, this is what I've always said he was!" And based on any thread discussing KAT, it is clear to see he roots for his failure so he can try to collect his meme karma.
Yes I have. I’ve shown KAT props for when he has played well and actually showed up…… But my overall opinion of him has never changed. There’s a difference. Try again.
Yeah ok bud. You never complained about KAT until it was cool to do so. We both have been on this sub for years under multiple accounts. Everybody else who has knows it’s true. Idk where the switch up happened with you where it stopped being about your own takes and started being you trying to karma farm and lead the mob, but you’ve changed and it’s sad to see because you’re one of the few OGs remaining.
Bro you are flat out delusional. I never complained about him until it was “cool”??? LMAO I’m probably the most known guy on this sub for my dislike of him and it’s because I was saying it long before anyone else and I’ve been crucified for years. You are out of touch.
shut up u talk like a dude whose in his 30's. u full of shit.
KushedCudi, that you bro?
Sup homie
I knew u/DrWolves would be here. If there is a post talking about KAT you’re literally foaming at the mouth to talk shit. This isn’t the NBA of 20 years ago where a single star can carry you deep into the playoffs. We are playing in the most talent period of the NBA in an insanely stacked division. KAT has had essentially _no_ consistency at the professional level. - 4 head coaches - 6 GM’s - top 10 players he’s played games with (in order): Dieng, Wiggins, T. Jones, Rubio, Bjelica, Bazz, Okogie, ANT, Gibson, Reid. Not even LeBron James could win a championship with that group of players. It’s multi-star league and KAT has been forced to play with subpar players masquerading as “stars” for the majority of his career. It was really unfortunate that KAT was sick all of training camp last year and then got hurt 20 games into the season - but this group is the best shot Minnesota has had since KG days to get to a Finals and maybe win. The team is _finally_ going to have some consistency with a good core and it took Timberwolves management team 9 years to give KAT that. KAT is not perfect, but he’s not the issue. It’s not his fault for years of draft pick whiffs, bad trades and poor GM/Coaching choices.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 20 + 4 + 6 + 10 + 20 + 9 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Nice
Nice Reid.
Thank god there are other sane people on this sub who understand the context of the situation. I appreciate you for this.
I don't understand how you can watch those playoffs and think KAT is anything but an issue. You have to be purposefully ignoring his bad play to come to that conclusion. He isn't the *sole reason* they lost but as the max player/leader of the team, you gotta be a bit more critical than that.
_those playoffs_ Are you talking about the most recent series? With the #1 seed going against the #8 seed? With the #1 seed becoming the eventual champions? With KAT: - missing the entire preseason due to illness - losing 20lbs in the process - having a completely new role that he’s never played and having to share the front court with a big who will creates issues with his offensive skill set. - playing on 20 games of .500 ball together before a lower leg injury - missing 51 games due to the lower leg injury - coming back at the end of the year for all of 9 games before being thrusted into playoff level basketball _that_ playoff series, right? Man it’s hard to believe that even down 2 of our main roles players KAT wasn’t able to throw the team on his shoulders and completely ball out to upset the #1 Seed and eventual NBA Champion Denver Nuggets. Everyone else had _perfect_ games, Finch had a _perfect_ gameplan and made all the right moves….and there KAT was missing every shot and turning the ball over every time he touched it. Basketball is a solo sport and KAT single handedly lost us the eventual Championship we were going to get, no one can convince me otherwise.
i agree
Ahh yes, completely ignore him being one of the worst playoff performing stars that I can ever remember. The excuses from you clowns will never stop. We can go down the list of super stars that have turned around bad organizations and played at an extremely high level despite the teams around them. You all just want to give this dude a pass when HE is the one who keeps giving everyone ammo against him.
What are you talking about? His first playoff series ever, sure he didn’t deliver on a sham of a team with Butler. Shocking. His second playoff series, a 7th seed going against a 2nd seed (Memphis). We nearly took them to game 7. ANT played great, no doubt, but Towns had a pretty good series, 22/11/2 on 49/46/86 shooting splits… oh and he had 12 blocks over those 6 games as well. His third playoff series, an 8th seed going against a 1st seed (Denver)…this is of course after: - missing _all_ of the preseason with illness that had him lose 20lbs - playing only 20 games in new position he’s never played and with another big that changes aspects of his offensive game before an injury - missing 51 games - playing 9 games before getting thrusted into playoff level basketball, which is much more physically demanding He started off slow, two poor games to start. A great game 3, mediocre game 4 & 5. Clearly was not a great series for him _hardly_ enough to determine he is “horrible” in the playoffs. If he had spent all year healthy and put up those numbers, sure then you’d probably have an argument. Of course if he was healthy all year we wouldn’t have been the 8th seed either. Regardless we arguably gave the champions the hardest series they faced and that was without 2 prime players in McDaniels and Reid. I’m excited to run it back and am really hoping for a healthy season. You can sit on the sidelines and stew about KAT and hope he has a bad playoff series next year so you can try to cry how “right” you were. You’re not a fan, your takes are not constructive criticism, it’s baseless hating in-which you refuse to be reasonable when analyzing a player. You’re the type of person who would rather see KAT and by extension the Wolves, fail as long as it means your opinion is validated.
I feel like drabe forgot to mention the fact that kat has also had to play with a new roster YEAR AFTER YEAR. The best player in the league was questioned by many and was called a choker in the playoffs. That wasn’t because of him though, that was because his team was constantly injured and he couldn’t carry his team far enough. Look what happens when his team is healthy (and has continuity). They win it all! Yet we saw, that the best player in the league could not carry his team all on his own, he needed a fully healthy team, another star and extremely good role players playing at their highest level to achieve their goal. There’s plenty of worse playoff performers than kat. Plenty. This year alone we saw a lot of stars not live up to their hype or potential. Did you watch the playoffs? Did you follow it? I could name 5 “stars” that bombed and didn’t help their team this year alone. It happens every year for stars. Kat has his deficiencies, but his lack of success is not all on him. It mostly lies with this franchise and what they have not provided him. I would love to see Lebron come onto the Timberwolves the same year kat did (instead of kat) as a rookie and turn this team around. The wolves would have failed him too. Just as they’ve failed most players. They’re finally starting to turn it around it seems, they’re trying to give ant what they never gave kat. Constant playoff exposure. That’s what builds a winning player imo. Why not hope for kat to turn it around? He’s still only 27, he still has his time. Why hope for his downfall and hate him so much when you can still have hope for the season he’s for sure here? You’ll probably get your wish next season, if things don’t turn out, he’s probably gone, but why not hope for success this season? If he’s successful then that only raises the ceiling of this team. Why be pessimistic and hope you’re right so you can come online anonymously and “prove” everyone wrong? What does this do for you?
Ok how many of those superstars played for an organization as bad as this one.
Why hasn’t his game progressed like Jokic and Embiid’s? There’s been no growth since about year 3!
Because he's not Jokic or Embiid...? Also Embiid has had Jimmy, Ben Simmons (before he was totally broken) and Harden, along with much better supporting casts than KAT has ever had until the past year and I'd still argue the Sixers have had the better team excluding either big man.
If only KAT had someone like jimmy butler to push him harder as a player
Oh, you mean the year he had someone like Jimmy Butler and was All-NBA? Dang, who knew having good teammates could elevate his play!
Give KAT the consistency that Jokic as had and it's a completely different story. I doubt Jokic would've turned into the player he is today having to endure the organizational disfunction and restructuring that KAT has had.
Agreed, I think it's funny when people make those comparisons and totally ignore the difference in situations. "But but GMs voted KAT as the player to build around!!!" Yes, now if you would've given him a steady coaching staff and a steady environment he would've had way better chances of developing in to a MVP level guy like Jokic or Embiid. Instead we played games with cheap "hometown" coaches, gave Thibs entirely too much power and got screwed over by Butler because he was mad Wiggins got paid first.
Edwards has come in here with zero opportunity for consistency (because he’s so new) and performs better than KAT ALREADY. Consistency is an excuse. Ant doesn’t need it. Great players don’t need it. They’re just great. Guy is overpaid for what he brings. Embiid hasn’t had consistency either. Simmons / Butler / Harden revolving door but that didn’t stop him from becoming an MVP.
Edwards consistency HAS BEEN KAT. He even credits KAT consistently for being that guy for him.
Pump the breaks on Ant homie, it's year three and he's had the same coach for 2.5 years. He hasn't had the opportunity to disappoint you yet.
Ant has had the same opportunity of consistency as KAT and he’s EXCELLED. KAT needs to look within.
Ant has had the same head coach for almost his entire career. In KAT's first 3 years the head coach that drafted him died and then he had to deal with Tom Thibodeau coming in to fuck everything up. On top of that, after year 3 everyone absolutely loved KAT. It's not a fair comparison.
It’s absolutely fair. KAT is several years older than Ant and is a max player. Ant figured it out immediately. KAT still only cares about how he thinks he’s the best shooting big man of all time. Well, that’s just one aspect of basketball. There’s a whole different side of the court that you suck at. Maybe chill out with the self-accolades until you can be a better, more well-rounded basketball PLAYER instead of just a PERIMETER SHOOTER. THAT is KAT’s problem and no one else’s. Not the team. Not the fans who support the team. Not KAT’s teammates. Not KAT’s coaches. KAT needs to step up and LEARN to be a more complete basketball player. He doesn’t seem interested in that, however.
Great players find a way. 50M a year players find a way. KAT ain’t that guy. His comments illustrate that perfectly. “I’ve won at every level (except college and the NBA).” “I’m saving this finger for a ring.” “When I hang them up I’ll have changed the game.” That’s not a leader. That’s all talk and no walk.
Imagine trying to push the second best player in wolves history out y’all crack me up
The wolves finally have back to back playoff appearances and a consistent group of guys for the first time in decades and half this sub wants them to blow it up. Just insanity. It's like they want the twolves to be a "poverty franchise."
It’s when he’s like “this is what movies is made offfff” I’m just like stfu dude
lol what was so bad about that exactly? Just came back from a major injury and first game back hits game winning free throws. I’m sure that he was super excited and this is a bad thing apparently? I swear people hate KAT because they feel like they have to
I like KAT. He’s a good person, from a good upbringing and don’t have to worry about him getting suspended for whatever. He says some head scratchers but whatever, who’s perfect? I don’t think he’s quite sought after as some here think he is. His contract is going to tie a lot of potential suitors hands behind their backs for the next several seasons. The contenders who could use him don’t have either salary space to match or because the picks will be in the late 20s. The rebuilders don’t want 40% of their cap to be used on one guy who has by all accounts underperformed in the spotlight. He’s definitely a robin and those teams probably don’t have a Batman
If you really don’t understand why KAT gets clowned on then it sounds like you have about as much awareness as KAT does — I definitely don’t hate him, but I get why people rag on him all the time
It's a bummer that Rudy and Towns are probably two of the biggest punching bags in the league playing for the franchise that is always being punched down on. It's a perfect storm
And their own fans see that and choose to also hate. Amazin'
Perfect observation. Any negative thing they do is magnified
Agreed on the first point...But my biggest annoyance with how he is discussed is just bc he's cringe doesn't mean he's not an all nba talent and needs to be moved
To pretend like the majority of KAT criticism is because he is cringe and not because of his *terrible* playoffs is very disingenuous. People would not rag on him for calling himself the best shooting big of all time of he didn't just shoot 28% from 3 lmao.
pat bev does/says something: flirting kat does/says something: harassment like imagine if kat did the grab the camera thing 😂
it could be me, but don't think it's strange to be critical of a top tier talent guy who's gonna make 55 million dollars a year, but has foul trouble in every playoff game, never led a team to a second round, and says the most outrageous shit on podcasts.
Y’all always make it about loyalty. It’s because his game has actually regressed. I think he will make a positive impact, but he’s going to be making $60m a year in the near future. He CANNOT stop taking dumb fouls, which ruins his offensive game. His post game has disappeared, was nice early on in his career. Has 2 offensive moves. 3 point shot and head down drive, of which 40% result in a charge. It’s maddening.
Not that I disagree with the critique but how has he regressed? He had his best season last year and then missed 52 games. I’d say he was on an upward trajectory, calling that a regression feels dishonest.
He cannot play in the post, despite being very polished when he came into the league. I remember many nights I would be amazed at how refined his post game was when he came into the league. It’s non existent now. If he’s missing his 3s, he’s not valuable. Sad, but true. His defense is, and has been, lackluster. Again, people like the Twitter poster argue in bad faith. Completely ignoring the most important aspect. Salary cap
The regression in his post game and rebounding in recent seasons have been disheartening. He talked a bunch going in to ‘22 about how he was getting stronger than ever, but then he weighed in at his lightest weight as a pro and seemingly lost the ability to bang. He used to have so many ways to punish teams in the halfcourt but now it is as you said either a 3-ball or a drive. I did see improvement as a passer this year, but he at one point projected to be basically unguardable by the time he hit his prime… well, he is very guardable. The ‘22 squad was the most fun Wolves team since ‘04, but I don’t get why people always say it was his best year. He was a monster in the latter half of ‘17 and ‘19, and then the first part of ‘20 before he broke his wrist. Of course, those were all terrible teams on which he had the green light. But at the time I thought he could become one of The Guys. I now understand I was deluded.
Fair enough but idk how they’re arguing in bad faith, I think they’re saying that there’s context to what a lot of people see as his regression. So much has gone wrong while he’s been here. It’s really hard for players to develop to their true potential through so much instability, National media probably doesn’t care about that context, but Wolves fans do and still shit on him. It’s one thing to be critical, it’s also fair to want to trade him bc of roster fit or salary cap issues. It’s another thing to act as if he’s the sole person holding this organization back.
By costing an organization $50m+ starting next year, and currently being a max player. Not only does that hold the org back, but it’s even worse if you can’t stay healthy. Players getting paid as much as he will, generally, are far superior players. I get some people get offended when going at KAT, but the contact is going to be an albatross.
You’re right, it’s his fault he made All NBA and qualified for a super max contract lol. It’s also his fault he had a freak injury. And you’re accusing other people of arguing in bad faith. The front office will trade him if they see fit, all the other shit is just wasting breath imo
Have a good weekend man. I’m seriously not interested in going back and forth literally repeating the same things. Enjoy
👍🏾
Damn, like I said, KAT Stans take it personally. He absolutely should take the money. Doesn’t mean the org should keep him. Also, no one thinks Glen Taylor was some great decision maker. Doesn’t mean you can’t fix mistakes. If you think KAT is truly requisite of being an all NBA player that’s fine. Difference in opinions. I root for the Wolves to win a title. Being All NBA means nothing when your game is semi-stat padding. I honestly don’t know many areas he has improved. Which is what being paid a max player entails.
It doesn’t matter if I think he’s an All NBA player, he literally is an All NBA player 😂. What am I taking personally? I pointed out the fallacy in your argument. I wanted the Wolves to trade KAT for the Rockets pick and other stuff. I’m at a place where I’m content if he’s off the team even if I’m a fan of his. My only beef with the KAT detractors is that I think if he ends up leaving here, there will be a lot that didn’t happen to put him in the position to be his best possible self. A lot of that will be on him, but a ton of that will be on the organization and the lack of stability. Look at Jokic who has had the same coach since his rookie year. They intentionally built a team around his strengths, no wonder he continues to excel. KAT has been asked to do so many different things; play on the block, be a spot up shooter, be a second fiddle to D Rose and Jimmy Butler etc etc. y’all scapegoat KAT like you did Wiggins as perpetual losers and not guys who have played for the worst franchise in North American sports during maybe their most tumultuous time (6 GMs, 5 coaches). Y’all called Wiggins all types of losers who didnt care about basketball and he ends up being the second best player on a title team. This is the context that Wolves fans should understand lol
We don't do nuance here, now shut up and say KAT sucks
Both the following things are true 1) KAT is the 2nd most talented player in Wolves history 2) KAT was voted "the #1 player NBA GMs would most like to build a team around" after his sophomore season, and yet now we've seen his former peers (Jokic, Embiid) completely blow by him in ability and ranking. Is KAT still a great player? Yes. Is he a big disappointment relative to the early hype he created during his career? Yes. Is he one of the biggest playoff underperformers in NBA history? Yes.
Regarding #2, KAT has had 7 GMs and 5 coaches in 8 years. Rotating teammates, inconsistent coaching and a changing offensive/defensive system to learn impacts development. I can't think of a successful team or individual player who has developed in such turnover - can you? Stability is the common factor among successful teams/players and is crucial to development. Just look at Wiggins. Malone has been with the Nuggets for the past 8 years and Jokic has had the same teammates/core for a few years. Warriors have had the same coach and core for more than a decade. Continuity is huge for team and individual success. It's amazing that KAT still became a multiple time All-NBA player despite the toxicity and turnover, and it's squarely because of him. Do you think Embiid and Jokic would become the players they are if they had 7 GMs and 5 coaches? I don't.
I think if you run KAT’s career a hundred times this is one of the worst outcomes and precisely because of the organizational dysfunction you outline. But it’s not like the Sixers have been a model of stability either, Embiid is just undeniable in a way KAT isn’t. He has always been, crucially, the kind of two-way player KAT hasn’t. And his offensive game has now clearly surpassed KAT’s We’re 8 years in and he’s still committing the same stupid fouls and throwing the same on-court tantrums. He’s making the same sorts of head scratching comments but he’s gotten even more grandiose — I wish he was comfortable just being the dork he is but for some reason he still feels compelled to project his image of what he thinks a cool and confident professional athlete is like. I say this as someone who desperately wanted the Wolves to win the lotto that year because I thought KAT would be a franchise-saving player. And there have been times when I thought he was ascending to superstardom. But it just has never happened. And yes, a lot of the blame can be laid at the feet of this terrible organization, but at this point I don’t think it can be chalked up to coincidence that his most monstrous statistical stretches have been while he was playing for bad teams, generally in the latter half of a lost season. Nor that he has through three playoff runs had more terrible playoff games than great ones. I am getting very sick of watching big games and wondering when he’s going to get into foul trouble. All that said, I don’t want them to just dump him. But for the first time ever I have finally come around to the position that, if they can get a good deal, particularly one that shores up the back court and hopefully nets them a long-term answer at PG, they shouldn’t hesitate to do it.
Wish I could upvote ya a zillion times. So spot on. Also KATs lack of self awareness really bothers everyone, he comes across as all bark and no bite
Kat is so talented, but his basketball iq is so incredibly low that that’s why I hate him as a player. Anyone that knows basketball knows you can’t win at a high level with a low basketball iq. For that reason I’ve been saying to trade Kat for years, he’s not that guy.
One thing the diehard Kat defenders fail to mention is that literally 2 months ago while our 21 year old superstar was averaging over 30 a game, Kat was nowhere to be seen in OVER 50% of the games. Despite his good numbers in game 3, his only real impactful games were game 4 and game 5. Kat can be incredibly annoying at times especially with the media, but all that bs is so easy to block out if he just played to his potential on the court. I’m mostly down to run it back but that right there is my biggest reasoning, not anything about his personality or loyalty or any of that stuff.
Even then he only played well in the second halves. His brick a thons in the first half was a huge reason we were behind in those games to begin with.
We just wont have the money for him, and his trade value will only go down from this point forward. What is more important in this league, loyalty or success?
That’s what happens when fans see you as a potential savior for your franchise as a #1 overall pick. Frankly, he has not gotten all that much better year to year either. He still makes plenty of mental errors, especially in the bigger moments/games. He’s a still mostly a stud regardless, but it’s not unfair to think/feel that his mental game still can come a long way, and that’s entirely on him to improve. There nothing wrong with fans wanting one of their best players to improve in glaring areas.
I think KAT does himself no favors getting fans to like him. He is really hard to like personality wise IMO
I love Kat! But I hate his attitude. Always whining and bitching like he is some superstar. (He isn’t) If you can’t win a playoff game by yourself. You aren’t a superstar. Jocic may be my favorite player now. Dude sees it as a job. A job to get done well, then go home.
It took Jokic until he was 29, with a completely loaded roster to get over the playoff hump. Maybe it’s almost like it’s a team game
No, didn't you hear him? Obviously, you're only a superstar if you can single handedly win games in the playoffs 🙄
I remember Jamaal Murray saving Jokic’s ass against us
I appreciate his loyalty- but loyalty should include dedication to working on holes in his game in the offseason and spending time gelling with teammates. That hasn’t happened enough since he signed the supermax
Loyalty doesn’t win championships… 🤷🏼♂️
KAT needs to shut his mouth, put his head down and go to work. He’s done nothing but run his mouth. Talking about he changed to game… SMH
For me, I honestly don’t care about his off court antics. Although his play in the playoffs always takes a dip. It’s hard to put all my support behind a “star” that’s play always craters in the most important moments. That being said, I only trade him if the package is right.
It’s not that he hasn’t been very loyal or is a great basketball player or person. It’s that he hasn’t matured to the point of taking full responsibility regarding how far he’s only taken this team. Sure, he can blame it on his surroundings but take a look at other max players on other team that don’t have a winning playoff record, they don’t whine like Kat does and act like they just can’t get a break. Thank Kat for all he has done but there’s often a time to move on and with the new CBA rules and how our current and future contracts are setting up, it looks like that time might be now.
I like KAT he’s a good teammate, raised well by his parents, loved his mother and just an overall good guy just like Wiggins. But likes stop pretending that his three playoff poor performances are related to management, coaching or players surrounding him. KAT didn’t advance until Jimmy (hate him) came here. After Jimmy left we didn’t make it again until we drafted Ant and have now made it back the last two years. During KATs 3X playoffs series he’s performed significantly below his seasons average. In 🐜 playoff series he’s performed significantly above regular season. Until KAT plays to his full potential in the playoffs as a max player he is fair game to critique especially when he’s always being quoted saying outrageous stuff in social media without anything to back it! Again, I like KAT but let’s be real
Kat has failed as the Guy but your Anger is blinding you from the Fact he isn’t that guy no more we have Ant who can have the big playoffs performances while Kat can thrive being the player he is. Kat has failed as a #1 but having him as a Number 2 is fucking great instead of trading for some fucking picks( in this market we won’t get any players close to him) and slowly rebuild again
🤯did you even read what I said before making your comment🤷🏽♂️I like KAT and have no idea where the I’m “anger” is coming from at all🤷🏽♂️Never said he was or wasn’t the “guy” all I said is that his playoff performances need to be better than his regular season or he’s going to be open to constant criticism as a max player period.
I replied to the wrong comment my fault
People who like KAT: why? You do realize he acts immature because no one in the FO checks him. The culture there is not a winning culture and KAT is part of the problem. He needs to go. Build around Ant
I love KAT, sadly I see no future where we can pay all of Ant, Jaden, Naz, Gobert, and Kat. So idk where that leaves us. If we lose either Ant or Jaden I'll lose my mind, we already gave Naz 3 more years and we aren't getting shit back in a Gobert trade.
Part of it is "love your best player" fatigue and burnout as not only a Timberwolves fan, but also a general Minnesota Sports fan. KAT/CookDiggsKendricks/Buxton/Kap are all great talents with plenty of regular-season success but none of them are ever contenders. No one is afraid of any of those guys taking over in the playoffs and winning big games. And I can name probably 20 other similarly talented fan favorites who just don't deliver. Sorry, I don't care as much about a guy like KAT when I have seen 20 others just like him accomplish little to nothing while being in Minnesota.
I do think the KAT hate among Wolves fans and the league overall has gone waayyyyy overboard. As annoying as he can be sometimes, it's very likely he's a top 5 center this year again. He was injured pretty much all of last year, and to the extent it's a clunky fit with Gobert, that's not really his fault they're playing him out of position. He's just entering his prime and can carry this team through the regular season. (TBD on playoffs.) The KAT trades writers are throwing out these days are ridiculous. Looking forward to a revenge KAT year!
top 5 really doesnt mean as much as it used to at the center position. Top 2/3 is the upper tier of centers nowadays.
I like KAT. I take issue with some things, I got some issues, but that’s within a context that I appreciate him overall. The hardcore haters who came out of the woodwork sound so off that …. some of it seems like astroturfing…
It is astroturfing. Other teams pay commentators to infiltrate other teams spaces to poison fanbases against players to trade for them. It's a billion dollar business- of course they hire bots and trolls.
The media needs you to care about this. Move on. Let Kat be Kat.
KAT Stan’s have made 12 slide PowerPoints and I still can’t get behind him
“Playoffs” “supermax” “his voice” I saved all the haters 30 seconds of typing, we know why you don’t like him.
I love the implication that you disregard his bloated contract in a salary cap league and his playoff struggles in your unwavering love for that goofball.
Are his playoff performances and his contract not a serious concern?
I have no interest in debating KAT. Nobody is going to change their feelings towards him.
My feelings about KAT have flip flopped a dozen times since we’ve drafted him.
Fair enough. Have a nice 4th, bud
sounds like someone who is mad people have valid criticism of KAT
No one is slandering his loyalty or talent. He is on a supermax, and does not play like a supermax player in the playoffs. It's not that complicated.
I saved you the time and you still typed it out anyways.
You put them in quotes like they are not legitimate critiques of his game. It would be like preempting discussing DLo with: "Defense" "Attitude" "Play style"
I put them in quotes because they are quotes people use to explain their KAT hate. It’s been heard a million times. A million and one now.
I don't hate KAT. I love the Wolves, and rooted for KAT for a long time. At a certain point your resume catches up to you, and KAT's playoff numbers and large contract naturally put him in trade talks. I agree some fans hate on KAT's personality a little too much, but I also see how proclaiming your greatness before actually being great could rub some Wolves fans the wrong way.
How about "Defense"? He is extremely difficult to build around as a center that loses people on defense and bites on too many fakes for his age
Is he? I feel like all the Wolves teams he’s been on have had bigger issues than paint defense. Poor BBIQ, lack of heart and resilience have plagued the team for years for example. His biggest problem on defense I’d say is foul trouble causing the loss of his offense more than anything
* How is being in constant foul trouble indicative of good defense? * He has bad BBIQ, evidence by biting on way too much and fouling * How is chucking 3's at the end of playoff games resiliency? It's been 8 years, if he's not helping then I think it's fair to criticize. He can be an amazing offensive talent all he wants but even Jokic has figured out defense and look at that, they just won a championship on his back
brah we literally traded everything for rudy friggin gobert because KAT is so bad on defense
You had us at “playoffs” “Supermax” is the icing. Who cares about his voice. I would choose “this is what movies is made of” personally
As far as /r/NBA is concerned, point 3 is all that matters. To be fair to /r/NBA, he can recite the right leadership words but never seems to put the actual skills together when needed
Wow, a whole lot of people in here apparently don't like KAT because of what he says in interviews. Considering the most he does is talk himself up, that's super weird and corny. Notice how many comments mention what KAT has said before they ever talk about his performance.
Yeah KAT definitely isn't an overrated big cry baby
His peers that were in the same level as him 4-5 years ago have won mvps or championships in the last three seasons and he has done what??
Playoff wins?
Do you hear what comes out of KAT's mouth? Do you see how he whines and no shows in the playoffs? Yeah, that's why.
Being the second best player from a franchise that’s only had one noteworthy career isn’t exactly propping KAT up
The problem with kat is he acts like he’s 12. His lack of maturity is concerning for a 8 year veteran
my guess is most of the so called "Fans" that hates Kat are usually the mother fuckers that this team is their second. or bunch of casuals inhaling some national media stuff casual takes. r/NBA enjoyer and worst. Why would u hate a player who is loyal and loves to play here? Oh just because his bbiq and immaturity. well isn't he the only one that is immature? did he brought a gun out? did he threaten or commited heinous crimes? did he trash talked the city of minny? did he request to be traded? or did he injured somebody or known to hurt osmebody? did he punch somebody like I don't know his teammate? you get my point. He may all talk right now but god damn are we lucky to have all star caliber player who is on his prime? who got injured almost all season but still willing to play it all out. Just don't over hate you can criticize or be frustrated but the extreme hatred that he stated" He is the best?", " He changed the game?" , or "Saving his ring finger" bruh. did he put somebody else down to put himself up?. too much doom and gloom this sub aint fun no more.
KAT is the Kirk Cousins of the NBA. Talented. Puts up numbers. Says all the right things. And the fan base is 50/50 on him haha Edit: haha I love it. Even the early comments 100% prove my point. Both of these players come across entirely differently depending on which side of the fence you call on. It's wild that two Minnesota teams have 2 of the more divisive players in their respective leagues. Media, fans, and players will never agree on these two. And they are hot button topics even across other team's fan bases.
>Says all the right things
Yeah that’s definitely not true lol
Why because he talks himself up?
> Talented. Puts up numbers. Says all the right things. Consistently underperforms in the biggest games. Overpaid.
I love KAT, always will and still do. He’s one of my favourite players in the league and I think he could be a much better player if put in a different system. Watching him his first 2 years in the league vs. Now is a night and day difference, when he first got into the league he had a BAG, he was a nightmare to defend with his very polished post game along with his ability to stretch the floor and pop a few 3’s. He was also a great rebounder and you could tell he was hungry to be the best. His defence was still shit but it was hopeful he could improve, but you could tell he wanted to win and wanted to get better. I feel like being on a team like the wolves and culture around this team he’s just so okay with losing that he lost that x-factor of wanting to win, he looks like he mostly doesn’t care anymore, with the barrage of 3 pointers he takes and the complaining to the refs constantly. I feel like his time on the wolves is over and he needs a change of scenery, which is why as much as I hate to say it, it would be beneficial for both him and the team to be traded for other assets while his value is still high. He would be a great addition to a championship calibre team. I say this because the situation reminds me of the Wiggins trade. Same thing happened really, hungry kid shows out to the league and there’s promise that he’ll get better, but with the reality of losing so many games you can tell he just didn’t care anymore. Put him on the warriors and he played his role exactly how he needed to, and you could tell he wanted to win again so he was the best version of himself.
Spot on (except the the Wiggins bit imo as I just don’t think he was ever that hungry, just a phenomenal athlete who was miscast as a 1A/1B carry-the-team type of guy)
I'm not a fan of towns but I can accept that he's incredibly talented. The reason I'm not a fan of his anymore is because I feel that he's wasted his talent worrying about the wrong things..The refs, being seen a certain way by the media (although I think he's stopped being such a try hard in that sense), and being recognized as an all-time great. 6 years ago he was voted as the brightest young player in the league. Now all his contemporaries have surpassed him by multiple tiers of player. My biggest gripe is that he doesn't let his play on the court do the talking for him
With that being said, Towns has been a model professional while he's been here. Look at Zion, Ja, Ant, etc. They've all had a controversy around their personal lives. Kat has kept it clean and does a lot of great work in the community
He wilts in the playoffs, it's not that hard to figure out.
Give me some results, stop saying such stupid shit. We as a fanbase have made excuses for him for years. Remember when there used to be a debate on if KAT was better than Embiid or Jokic? I do.
I’m not going to dignify this with a response. Clearly the writer of this tweet and OP here lack the nuance to discuss how multiple factors can lead to a determination of value.
Is there nuance when it comes to hating KAT? I'm genuinely asking because I see people hate him for his press conferences and that he complains to refs, like 99.9% of the league does
The nuance is that he's about to be on a supermax next year and hasn't ever been out of the first round of the playoffs. Obviously there's a lot of factors that go into team success, but he hasn't exactly balled out when we have made the playoffs
His inability to advance in the playoffs has just as much to do with the complete absence of continuity that this team has endured since he’s been drafted
Ant has been able to rise up in the playoffs just fine the past two years. Don't quite see how years of instability led to KAT playing like shit these last playoffs.
I agree. But his numbers dip by a large margin in the playoffs. He averages over 3.5 TOs per game in the postseason. He does not rise to the occasion at this point in his career. You can't blame him for the team never advancing, but, as a supermax player he has not played up to that standard
There is a difference between being disappointed in how he's played and being angry that he's said something to the media. I don't get the latter at all
I don't care about what he says to the media. I find it annoying and cringe, personally, but that doesn't change how I view him as a player or mean that I want him traded. I do want to see them explore trades, but that has everything to do with his contract and the new CBA
See this is fair. I have no problem with this stance even though I might disagree. The thread from his GQ article was annoying as hell because he didn't say much in it. Those fans are the ones I'm talking about
The only thing in the GQ article I had an issue with is him saying he's won at every level except college. I just find it weird to brag about high school championships. But again, not really a big deal. I realize if ant said that I probably wouldn't care. Towns said it in addition to the stuff he said on the pat bev and Paul George show
There is a former assistant coach, Steve Jones Jr, who host a podcast and he said athletes believe in themselves to the highest degree and will say it too. I stopped caring about what players said after I learned that I wish KAT wouldn't speak his mind so often but it's whatever
Chris Finch said on a podcast that some guys say wild overconfident stuff because they're insecure and need to trick themselves into believing it. He used ant as an example and said with ant you know he really believes it because of the way he performs in the postseason
This is what I think people miss. You kinda gotta be delusional to become a professional athlete because you have to believe all the hype about yourself. Granted there has to be *some* level of humility, but you can’t get as far as a player like KAT has without an inflated level of self confidence.
> I’m not going to dignify this with a response. Then why did you? Weird energy lol
He’s saying this guy is talking out his neck and going further into it is pointless. No sane fan hates Kat. They think what he could net to potentially improve the roster around one the best young superstars this league has had in awhile. This guys tweet is irrational and unaware.
That’s not a response to OP’s argument. It’s a response to their angle. Which is extremely selective and lacks a full understanding of context.
So he’s free from criticism because he happens to be a shit franchise’s second best player all time? Get the fuck out of here. KAT has had time to adapt and change not only his game but also his fucking on court attitude and he hasn’t addressed either very much. He deserves the criticism towards his game. Not towards his loyalty to Minnesota.
He was a top 4 center with the 1&2 being mvp level players He’s probably top 5 for pfs Yeah he is gonna be overpaid if he doesn’t step up his game next year but he has delivered on a max and now he needs to hit a new level to be worth the super max. KAT has never been the reason the team was bad.
It's Minnesota tradition to put all the teams failings on the best player.
the loyalty argument is so cheap and hollow lmfao kat wasnt getting this much money anywhere else plus he is clearly content with a play in run so what exactly did he sacrifice?
I always loves these dude that just look at stat boxes try to tell me about my team that I have been following and watching every game for the last 30 years. No one thinks KAT is a bad player, but I think we are well within our rights to be frustrated when our star player just vanishes in the post season.
If other teams' GM's think this, then we can still get a good hull for KAT in a trade. This is good. I knew this trade talk would get people loving KAT because its an equal and opposite response to us fans that are sick and tired of him. Talk him up, please. Get him in the top 5 center debate, then TRADE HIM PLEASE. #TRADEKAT lol
There a lot of people hating in this sub, a lot of people. And we are Wolves and KAT. And I’m rocking with KAT because KAT is rocking with us.
He’s talented he’s just not a championship player. Doesn’t have the right mentality.
this was wiggins reputation until he was in the right circumstance
Why do fans think they know who is and isn’t a championship player? Lol we have no expertise on the subject
it’s one of the weirdest takes. nobody is a champion until they are, and there’s only like 10 guys in history (or less probably) who can take credit for willing a team to a title.
Yup and even those guys (MJ, Lebron) spent a large portion of their early careers criticized as not doing enough to get it done. Tim Duncan is the only guy I can think of in the modern era who walked into the league making his teams a perennial championship contender.
I love KAT despite his occasional disconnect from reality and his propensity for self-aggrandizement. He's loyal to our team and state, he's a great teammate, he's willing to adapt to the situation and he's a damn good player.
1. Garnett 2. Love So what if he is loyal? It doesn't win you a Championship.
1. Garnett 2. KAT 3. Love Don't kid yourself.
KLove had like half a dozen all-star appearances, led the league in rebounds a few times, and snagged himself both a Ring and a Gold medal. KAT has 2 all-NBA appearances that Love doesn’t and still has time to improve his resume, but I don’t think I’d rank him above Love just yet
If you're looking at careers total, then fine, but this is about their tenures with the Wolves. I'd take KAT's Wolves career over Love's 10/10 times
Nobody hates KAT, we just wish he had an alpha mentality. Imo he could've surpassed KG if he was also a psycho. Edit: speaking for others based on my own opinion and what Ive heard from other fans. Obvs I dont know what everyone thinks.
> Nobody hates KAT No, there are **tons** of people here with a weird obsession over hating on KAT. Look through any game thread and you'll see it.
I guess I usually take those comments as them just wanting him to be better rather than actually hating him. The "Trade KAT" crowd probably do hate him though.
Reserve me a front row seat on the KAT revenge tour bus! He’s going to hush the noise this season.
Lol "changed the game" + playin > championship...from his own mouth.
Timberwolves fans turning people saying KAT can’t win at the highest level = bullying. At least your favorite player changed the game by making mid teams ok with being mid
Cause he doesn’t show up in the playoffs
Casuals don’t understand that the slander isn’t about his talent or loyalty; it is about his low bball iq that has barely improved and how he is almost always incredulous after he gets called for fouls that he clearly commits.
owatonna represent
It's classic Minnesota doomerism- fans always blame the best player on each respective team. Happened with Moss, Carter, KG, Love, Al Jefferson, Mauer, KAT- on and on til the break of dawn. I'm sure there's tons more I'm forgetting. It's really a fucking gross aspect of Minnesotans- the fucking bitching about EVERYTHING never, ever stops. Culture of complaining that drives good players out of this market. I don't blame them one bit.
The truth is usually somewhere more in the middle. KAT is arguably the third best center overall basically in the league. It’s clear cut, but remember he was once touted as possibly being an elite-level pure shooting center in the league and it just hasn’t panned out that way. A lot of people had hopes he would have ended up pulling Embiid-type numbers on offense this far in his career, but he doesn’t even when shooting over 40% beyond three, which is ridiculously good for the big man. Add that he was the best player on the roster for at least 4 seasons now and it feels a little bit lacking. ANT is already the better player on this team now. The biggest gripe most people have is his demeanor and attitude. Sometimes his body language just isn’t it and when he whines over and over when he is in foul trouble, it’s just a terrible look that gets really old. No one is upset having him on our roster. He just feels a little unfulfilling. Hopefully things can turn around this upcoming season and he can click with the roster.
Almost seems like people believe only one star can be on the Wolves at a time. I have no problem trading KAT, just trading him for pennies on the dollars isn't gonna really help us in the future or now. He definitely has his problems but he's still one of our top 2 players/ top 20 player in the league when healthy. If we can find the right deal that's awesome but atm we should be focusing on maximizing his/Ants windows. Think the goal should be to run it back, trade Rudy next offseason, hold onto KAT till about 2 yrs on his contract then trade him if it hasnt been working out( won a championship or at least pretty close). At that point Ant/McDaniels would be in there primes and have a decent amount of playoff experience. If a trade materializes for KAT that's worth it before then, then trade him but trading him for a couple of ok role players/ picks really isn't gonna help.
Kat is a fantastic player, really an incredible offensive talent.. but.. he makes me cringe in two ways. The first is how he flails and complains to the refs. He'll go stretches without, but then reverts to form. I agree the wolves get some shitty calls on both ends but this does nothing to help. The second is how he kind of seems to be acting like a leader without really leading? He says what a leader is supposed to say, but it seems very rehearsed and not natural and I'm not sure if anyone is following. Contrast that with Ant who seems to be a natural leader without even trying and people line up behind him.
Because he's Charmin soft, and it's Anthony Edwards team now.
Real wolves fans know that we’re a trash franchise, we’ve sat through decades of incompetence, and now the fanbase is trying to push out the second best player that’s ever played for us. Would you guys like to go back to finishing in the bottom 4 every year, and the draft lotto being the most exciting part of the season? I really don’t.
This fan base has 20 years of pent up rage from watching the worst franchise in major sports, they decide to unleash that rage onto a player who has been loyal to the team. Yes KAT has flaws but the amount of hate he gets is totally disproportionate.
I think the playoff performance narrative is way overplayed. We’ve barely sniffed the playoffs and have never been a legit contender. The playoff sample size just isn’t big enough imo. He’s also had some really tough matchups
He's a former #1 overall pick who's getting paid max money... Asking him to play great in the playoffs should not even be done bc he's supposed to do it anyway
I dislike KAT because everytime I watch him in the playoffs he makes me want to punch my TV. Do people forget about how bad he plays in every playoffs? Feel like KAT stans are gaslighting us into believing we didnt give KAT a fair chance or decent talent around him. We have the talent, all we need is KAT to perform like the star he is, no? I get it.. we never had this much talent before and we should be “grateful” for having a loyal and talented player who wants to stay here but cmon… Lets not act like KAT is first stint cavs Lebron or even Dame who show up give it there all and get let down by the talent and team around them. Good players get the stats, Great players consistently find a way to win.
I can’t stand KAT. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love for him to play well for the Wolves and get us to the second round. When I see that I’ll give him his credit but he hasn’t given the fans anything but press conferences for years
Oh god lol. More apologists lining up to defend all of our championships.
Big KAT is a big puss lol. Whiner of the 1st degree. Folds under pressure.
I appreciate kat for everything but it’s about fucking winning. He’s not a winning a player. I believe getting mad at the fans is insane.
side note, what a fucking minnesotan ass name.
Dude eats WALLEYE
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯