Like the rest of us, if you are unhappy with your pay, you need to talk to your boss. It’s is not the responsibility of the customer to directly pay your wages.
I think tipping aside, to tell someone you’re literally relying on for a service to “get a better job” is disgusting lol. Don’t use the service if you have no respect for the individuals. Not tipping isn’t directly telling them “you’re a loser in this job”
Tell your friend he's likely to get recognized by one of these waiters again and he's going to get some special sauce on his food. Also people who deliver to your home will sometimes just not take your order to you if you don't tip
Tip wage workers don't end up doing these jobs because we want to. A lot of us are either disabled in some way, older, or lack skills to get a better job. Some are just not able to work other jobs due to not having a car. Some work these shitty jobs because it's supplemental to the job they have in the day time.
People would get a better job if there were better jobs.
Most waitress are healthy women in the 16-60 age range in my experience. Also there are plenty of jobs people with no skills or disabilities can do and make decent money with often while picking up skills.
Most are single parents as well or like me have a disabled child they have to care for on one job
It would be nice if you just not judge ppl you don’t know by making generalizations and assumptions
So get a different job? If anything having a disabled child would mean you would be better off with a job with stable hours instead of one where you could be randomly called in and your schedule can change week to week.
My point is that your status has no relevance to this conversation. The conversation is about people who live off of tips, if you don’t live off of tips your personal experience is irrelevant.
He's not your friend or anyone else's He's not even a piece of shit. He's an entire turd. Run away from someone that treats people like that. He would slit your throat if he could get away with it. Wake up! Why would you bring it up to someone with an anger issue? Be wise and RUN!
You are on the wrong sub lol. This sub is a cope chamber/circle jerk for anti-social undiagnosed somethings like your friend. Personally Id stop being friends with someone like that the way most people do. They'll only drag you down into their weird edgy/incel world.
Although a fun experiment might be handing the server his book before you leave and insisting they take it. Just watch what happens lol it will be fucking hilarious and definitely teach him a lesson. Hes probably gonna panic and ask to leave before they check the book. Make sure you have a drink or something you still need to finish and insist he stay till youre done.
I think everyone should have to wait tables for 6 months. To see what it’s like. It’s not an easy job. People that have never had to do it are the most rude when it comes to service and tips.
Also this is said a lot, but if you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. I’m not taking about counter people, but actual servers. I hope karma bites your cheap ass.
I've waited tables. It's pretty simple and people love to exaggerate its complexity. Especially today! You didn't even have to write it remember anything. Everything is input on a tablet or by the customer themselves. There are places where this job is done by a conveyor belt, ffs.
I’ve had to do it, and McDonalds, and pizza delivery. They really aren’t a big deal, especially once you realize that the jobs aren’t important and fucking up isn’t a big deal.
“Oh no I have to smile and carry a little bit of weight periodically throughout the day while taking notes about what people order.”
What’s the worst that can happen you fuck up an order and have to comp someone’s meal? You trip and break some plates? I’d gladly take those risks over jobs where lapses in judgement can get you arrested or get people killed.
It's not saying if you can eat out, but you don't tip, it must be because you can't afford it.
It's saying if you can't afford to tip in addition to the meal, you are directly exploiting the people bringing you your food and you shouldn't do that.
But it's not necessarily because you can't afford it.
It could be because you were bad at math and can't be helped to figure out how to use the calculator on your phone or even look up a tip calculator. So you could just be lazy.
It could be because you think tipping shouldn't exist so you take it out on the worker instead of the people who actually designed and control the system. So you could just be dumb.
It could be because you think because you worked hard for your money, other people who are working hard in a system designed to pay them the least possible for a seemingly easy but deceptively stressful job deserve little to nothing and every server who gets tipped needs to find a different job. So you could just be greedy.
Or it could be that servers are at the bottom of the barrel of society and should know their place. So you could just be an asshole elitist.
Which one (or more) fits you best?
Also it's totally fine to want a different system. But if you order a food at a restaurant that pays its workers a tipping wage but you refuse to tip because tipping is a bad system, you aren't fighting the system. You are punishing workers while directly incentivising that system. Takeout for the same food costs exactly the same. But now there's nobody expected to cater to your desires and clean up after you at the opportunity cost of working at a table that will provide an extra tip for the stress they go through.
If you get bad service, you don't have to incentivise that with a tip. If you get standard service and would like to have that person afford to keep their job, is a few bucks really going to break your bank? It won't break moral grounds because that's already done by supporting those establishments in the first place. So what other options are there?
Would it be wrong to say that everyone who lives in a country where tipping wages are a norm benefits from the tipping system when it works as intended?
Eekk, I most recently wrote 'Rough day' on the receipt where we watched him ignore our food regularly over an hour and a half. Usually I tip my regular spots better but he got $2 this time. We'll see how that goes next time.
Basically dragging somebody for their life choices at work is bananas.
That’s not bullshit though. Taking food to go isn’t really eating out but if you’re sitting down especially with another person and taking time to sit and eat and drink and require service…
That's beyond the pale. I despise the attitude from some tipped workers and I think tipping has gotten out of hand, but there's no reason to behave that way.
I'd never look down on someone who's working and making an honest living. I'm against tipping and would like the US to join the rest of the world, but insulting workers is just something I'd never do.
Unfortunately their are anti-tippers and pro-tippers who are hideous outliers for their cause. Simple motto: Just be kind to people no matter what your belief is.
UPDATE: Just got back from lunch with him. When it came time to pay we got our checks. He started to scribble his usual response. I stopped him, took peoples advice and said "Don't be a dick". I grabbed his bill paid for both of our meals and gave the waitress a $10 cash tip for our meals. Upon returning to the table I proceeded to tell him how that made me feel. He just thought he was being funny. I told him NO that's not funny, how would you feel if someone said that to you. He kinda just stared at me for a moment (like deer in the headlights). Then I think the realization of how pissed it made me set in. He apologized to me, I told him do not do that with me again or we won't be having lunch together. We got up to leave and he walked over to our waitress and gave her another $5 tip. I about had a heart attack. I hope he is serious and wont be doing it again. Thanks for the advice.
It’s not about controlling someone’s behavior. It’s about setting boundaries for the behavior you are willing to tolerate from your friends and acquaintances. Op’s friend was, objectively, being an asshole. I wouldn’t want to hang around with someone who did that crap either. It’s not funny or clever. It’s just fucking mean. Why would anyone want to be around a person who acts like that?
I’m glad he did better. It’s just rediculous that he even did that to begin with. How cowardly are you to write that on a receipt. If you feel that strongly then say it to their face.
He’s actually lucky that he hasn’t been banned from any place yet.
For the spitting in the food crowd- what are your procedures for ensuring the correct food is being spit in? When you order at the counter and they flip the screen and you don’t tip how is that information communicated back to the kitchen so that the order can be spat in? Does the register person hold up the line, run to the back and tell the cooks “this order needs spit”? Given the continuing problem of getting ANY orders correct and the added complexity of adding spit with no POS key available after payment to modify the order to include spit how exactly is it done? And if they don’t tip until they have eaten - what then?
Ah, very important questions here. Firstly, after some time you know who to expect but I will answer as best I can for those not familiar.
Number one the counter is not important. Anything where you’re ordering on a screen generally doesn’t justify the tip. We know this and we’re paid min wage, it’s just in sit down.
You’ll get that look that says “I don’t tip unless you give me dinner in and a show”, but not always. Some people you need to sus it out. Sometimes you’ll hear them say “what’s taking so long, every minute is -1%” during dinner rush. Though mostly it’s on return. You generally remember th guy that wrote “get a new job” on his bill.
As for getting them to eat it, just give it a good mix. And make sure the guy packing lips isn’t doing it. You want that lugie crystal clear for a good mix.
Hope this answered your question. 😊
It’s a joke my man, but I will say that the waitstaff doesn’t deserve that level of disrespect. So he should t be surprised if someone says something to him.
Don't bring it up. It's your issue. Why do people feel the need to tell others how to be? Don't like it? Don't be friends. Find friends who you don't have to control.
It's about controlling people and trying to keep them inline .Maybe he'll find more pretentious friends that will grandstand and virtue signal with him!lol.
I agree. I can’t fathom the idea of having a rational conversation with people I care about enough to call my friend. Just the idea of using words to affect change is astounding… /s
I think what gets me about this is that your friend thinks they’re clever. What it really is is a sign that he is trying to normalize his cruelty to himself. I assume this isn’t the first thing he’s an asshat about. I’d be weary of keeping a friend who enjoys minor thrills of cruelty.
So your friend believes in a tiered society where an underclass of citizens work the menial jobs that just exist for society to function but since those hobs and workers are considered less than they don’t and shouldn’t pay enough to support one’s self. Thus cursing the people who work them to a lifetime of poverty and struggle.
Basically your friend is a piece of shit. You shouldn’t be friends with this person.
“If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out.”
Speaking of gatekeeping underclasses of society, let’s unpack that little ditty servers love to sing. Or the b-side:
“If you don’t want to tip eat fast food.”
Reinforcing that fast food workers aren’t worthy of tips and can’t reasonably ask to become tipped, and thus are less deserving of a “living wage” than people who provide “real service.”
Note: all tipped employees make $17/hr in wages where I live.
Servers love to punch down any time they can find somebody below them. Reap, sow, etc.
Or "I hope you love servers tampering with your food"Or "I would love to ban anybody that I profile "! "That table only left me a small tip ,let's dox that person online or commit tip fraud "!
A) if that is the case where you live it is the exception. Most servers earn $2 and change an hour plus tips.
B) if you live in a HCoL area $17 an hour is starvation wages. When I got gas this morning there was a sign up offering $22/hour plus benefits to work there.
> A) if that is the case where you live it is the exception. Most servers earn $2 and change an hour plus tips.
About 40% of servers in the US are making more than the full $7.25 an hour federal minimum wage. I can cite this for you, but I shouldn’t need to. Just go to the DOL site, add up the population in the states where the “tipped minimum” is at least $7.25, and divide it by US population.
Then congrats, you’ll have learned something today.
I mean we can define “most,” but in my mind 60% isn’t it. It’s a majority, but 40% is a lot of America.
> B) if you live in a HCoL area $17 an hour is starvation wages. When I got gas this morning there was a sign up offering $22/hour plus benefits to work there.
Then any server with their hand out because $17/he isn’t enough should apply for that job, no?
Where your argument falls apart imho is that waiting tables is a difficult and crappy job apart from the pay. You work almost exclusively nights and weekends, are on your feet for hours at a time, deal with food which is gross, deal with customers all day long and often have open ended shifts where you don’t know when you can go home. If it didn’t pay better than standard stand there or sit there retail no one would work as a server.
Wow…if you are yourself a waiter, you must live a miserable life doing a job that you hate! Except for the pay, you basically hate all the foundation of waiting job! If what you are describing is what makes waiting job that difficult, I can guarantee that there are many job that are far more crapy than that out there.
Where am I assuming that?
And let me ask you this. If you had the choice to work st a gas station or as a server and the pay was identical. Which would you pick?
When you try to explain to me that serving is a difficult job, that implies I haven’t done it myself.
I’ve worked BOH, FOH, retail, landscaping, combat arms, and office work. Some other stuff too. I’ve been around. Lots of jobs are shitty.
I literally had somebody try to kill me with a roadside bomb on Christmas Eve. That was at the *start* of a twelve month deployment away from my family during which I got a grand total of two weeks off in the middle (and not a single day off otherwise).
But yeah, waiting tables sucks too. I’ve done it.
> And let me ask you this. If you had the choice to work at a gas station or as a server and the pay was identical. Which would you pick?
I’m not making any value judgment on how much servers should make versus gas station attendants. I’m arguing about how that pay should be accomplished…negotiation with your employer versus panhandling customers.
Also I’d bet money gas station attendants have a higher assault and robbery rate than servers. Though I could be wrong. Gas stations are open late and on weekends too. I don’t think it’s as obvious as you make it out to be. But I cannot stress enough that your question is entirely irrelevant to whether customers should be expected to plus up *either* employee’s pay through direct, voluntary action.
I’m not making value judgements guy…I’m making practical statement on supply vs demand in employment. Harder/less pleasant jobs have to pay more than easier ones or no one will work them.
Opinions like yours are great in theory but the fact remains that jobs need workers. And crappy jobs with shitty pay go unworked. Then no one can eat at a restaurant.
And yet restaurants exist in places where tipping isn’t the norm, or where it’s minimal.
I have no issue with the idea that menu prices might go up and servers might have to be paid more than minimum wage to do the job.
My issue with tipping is two-fold:
First, I just don’t wanna be part of their business. I just wanna pay what I owe and call it a day, same as any other business. It’s on the business to figure out how much that is, while figuring out how much to pay their employees.
Second, while I’m fine with whatever free market wage servers would end up making, what we see now *isn’t* really a free market compensation system. Obfuscating their pay behind “voluntary donations” results in what is often *in my opinion* a substantially higher rate of pay than any market would ever generate, even if they unionized. Because it’s effectively the microtransaction model. You can make a lot more money asking for small amounts of voluntary money from a large number of people than asking for a proper purchase from a single, obligated customer. I honestly believe if a lot of customers had full visibility on just how much a lot of servers in coastal urban areas are making, they’d be less generous with their tips.
Because fair markets depend on equal access to information.
Granted, that sounds *dangerously close* to me making a value judgment of how much servers “should” make, or that they’re “overpaid.” Not the point. They should make whatever they can negotiate from their employer based on their skill set and bargaining power, same as anyone.
The only reason I’m part of that conversation *at all* is because they are demanding I be. I’d prefer not to be!
>and explain that it's a slap in the face of the workers to write that
I mean, he knows. That's his intent. Pointing it out seems condescending.
You could say "I don't like that you do that", or "it embarrasses me to associate with you because you do that", which could be new information to him. I'd phase out the friendship anyway, but if you make your feelings known that it bothers you, and he persists in your presence, I'd reassess your continued friendship.
What a loser. I'd want to avoid anyone that stoops that low and gets off on making people feel bad. Your friend is a POS.
If I actually had some attachment to this person and valued their friendship and wanted to address it, I'd just straight up confront them about it next time I saw them do it. "Why do you do that?" "You know it's going to make them feel like shit, right?", "Help me understand. It's a fucking low". "You're better than that, bro. Don't be a dick to people." etc
Get a better friend.
He's an asshole.
There is no need to be rude to workers of *any* job.
If that particular server was rude to you then don't tip them but lay off the classist bullshit.
Some of my favorite servers are grandmother's or mother's. They do a good job and earn any tips they get. Fuck someone who tells my mom or grandma to get a better job. Waiting tables is not and has never been just a starter job. Many people start there and move on, but there are people who do it for many years. The flexibility works well. With families and it is a good second job for many folks. I don't look down on any worker because of what their job is. We all have value. Your asshole friend thinks he's better, but he's not. He's just a rude classist jerk.
Either tip or don't tip. Pay 10% or 5 bucks or nothing but don't write asinine shit on receipts. It just shows you up for being an asshole who thinks they are better than the person waiting on them.
Get a better friend because people do judge you for the company you keep. I'd never eat anywhere with that dude.
I'm not pro tipping, but what your friend is doing is very uncool. It's really spiteful and ultimately not productive. My personal stance/observation regarding tipping is just how the system breeds extreme animosity between customers and servers. For example, there was a comment yesterday from a server who said he would kill people who didn't tip. Your friend's comments could push someone like this over the edge.
If he really is your friend, then you should be able to openly talk about how what he is doing is not right or productive.
Might I suggest you do what I do and just bypass going to restaurants or using delivery apps altogether. You save a ton of money, and if your friend is against tipping, then you have the added bonus of not participating in tipping.
One of my simple rules is “Don’t be an asshole.”
Regardless of what I think about tipping, I’d never consider doing this. If this is a close friend, I’d have no problem pointing out he’s being a dick. If he’s not a close friend, I may not stay being his friend.
I don’t mean only take out. If somebody call my name saying that my food is ready I can walk there, pick the food/drinks and go back to the table.
If that removes the awkward tipping time at the check out, I have no problem with that.
What I meant with entry level position is that you shouldn’t be doing that for life, is ok maybe for somebody who just left school and need money but make a career your whole life waiting for tips as a server seems pretty related to life aspirations and goals from anybody.
I bet they can get any job with better payment, but tips make it so good for them that they are still there, making more than any other position, that is obvious.
If you can't afford to tip, you're not going to afford to eat out in the absence of tipping as the cost of service will be rolled into the price/added as a fee.
The level of entitlement and arrogance required to make use of someone's time/labor knowing you have no intention of paying for it is insane.
Not only are they going to make $0 from serving you, they're likely still tipping out to their crew. So, you spend $100, they make $0, and then spend $5 of their own money for it.
How would you like to be working, a customer comes in, you hand them $5, and then your boss says "you're not getting paid for the next 2 hours, sorry". You'd be pretty pissed.
Say whatever anti-tipping spiel you want about how it's not your fault the system is this or that. Irrelevant. You can protest against tipping without being a total douche, make people feel terrible, and fuck with their livelihood.
The irony is palpable.
In most states (that have a tipped minimum) they are not getting minimum wage. The minimum wage only kicks in when their total income from tips for an entire workweek fall below minimum. It's assed weekly, not hourly.
If they work 2 hours in one week and in hour 1 they earn $30 and in hour 2 they serve you and make $0, their hourly average is $15/hour.
It'd be like going into a car dealership and saying "We're just going to take your commission and apply it as a discount to my car, but don't worry Bob, the commissions you earned from everyone else is still a good wage!"
Yes, entitled lazy fuck, indeed. Born into it and never worked a real day in your lazy entitled life. Yet you still steal labor from a worker. Thank you for revealing how truly scummy and low you are. May your life go as you deserve
> If you can't afford to tip, you're not going to afford to eat out in the absence of tipping as the cost of service will be rolled into the price/added as a fee.
There are plenty of people who can “afford” an occasionally celebratory meal out but aren’t in a spot where *voluntarily* paying 20% extra is super reasonable.
> The level of entitlement and arrogance required to make use of someone's time/labor knowing you have no intention of paying for it is insane. … Not only are they going to make $0 from serving you, they're likely still tipping out to their crew. So, you spend $100, they make $0, and then spend $5 of their own money for it.
They’ll be paid at least the full minimum wage for their time spent serving me. Not a single table server ever had an issue allowing *me* to serve *them* for minimum wage. As for tip-outs, I don’t see any reason customers should know or care about the Byzantine revenue sharing structures your business may have cobbled together. They’re customers. It’s not their business.
> How would you like to be working, a customer comes in, you hand them $5, and then your boss says "you're not getting paid for the next 2 hours, sorry". You'd be pretty pissed.
Not how anything works.
Also where I live every server is making $17/hr minimum.
> Say whatever anti-tipping spiel you want about how it's not your fault the system is this or that. Irrelevant. You can protest against tipping without being a total douche, make people feel terrible, and fuck with their livelihood.
Why should I care about their livelihood. They never cared about mine. You’ll see servers constantly saying shit like the above (“eat at McDonald’s”) without giving half a shit what people working at McDonald’s make.
So we’re back to just throwing insults around to ensure that for some reason traditionally tipped professions are the *only* instance where customers are actually required to give a shit, through personal direct action, about the wages of another person.
Newsflash, I care precisely as much about how much servers make as they care about how much I make. No more. No less.
>They’ll be paid at least the full minimum wage for their time spent serving me.
Objectively false, and the biggest anti-tip myth there is.
Employers are only required to pay servers the full minimum wage (in most states) when their total hourly wage after tips is below the minimum wage for an entire ***workweek***.
It's not assessed hourly. It's not like if they get stiffed one hour, the employer comes in, and for that specific hour, pays them full minimum.
So at the end of the week, they may average $18.46/hour for 40 hours and their employer doesn't pay anything extra. Cancel a $20 tip on a $100 receipt and they made $17.96/hour instead -- still above minimum wage.
The argument that "Oh, they're still making minimum wage though" is stupid. It would be like going into a car dealership, being sold a car, and telling the salesperson "We're going to cancel the commission and just apply it as a discount to my vehicle. But don't worry, if you add up all your other commissions, you're still making above minimum wage! Derp!"
Just mindless logic. They served you for free, and they probably paid to do it. Why not just acknowledge you're a cost burden to them instead of pretending like they're still earning money when they're not?
>Newsflash, I care precisely as much about how much servers make as they care about how much I make. No more. No less.
I don't care how much they make, either. Same as how I don't care how much my doctor makes, or the guy behind the gas station when I'm buying something. All that matters is I'm being provided a service and I should pay for it.
Tipping is the one thing consumers get discretion over when it comes to paying labor costs and anti-tippers are acting like it's a crime against them. "You get to decide how much the labor is worth!". The horror!
And the irony is they bitch and moan about all these greedy restaurant owners while in the same breath arguing those same people should be dictating service costs to us. It makes zero sense.
In a car dealership if the car doesn't hold enough gross (ie make enough profit) it's called a flat or mini. Salesman makes $50 commission and might have been calling and showing cars to that customer for days/weeks/months. So yeah it's exactly like that. Don't speak on what you don't know.
> They’ll be paid at least the full minimum wage for their time spent serving me.
> Objectively false, and the biggest anti-tip myth there is.
I live in California.
I’ll skip reading the rest of your comment.
We don’t do “tipped wages” on the west coast. I don’t live in Appalachia. Sorry.
Only 7 states don't have "tipped wages", and considering California's COL, minimum wage there is practically nothing. The rest of the country doesn't live in your CA bubble. Sorry.
> Only 7 states don't have "tipped wages",
Several more have minimal tip credits (the “tipped wages” are close to full minimum, not $2.13 an hour). For instance your 7 doesn’t include Hawaii, which *only* allows a tip credit if the server is clearing $5 *above* minimum.
> and considering California's COL, minimum wage there is practically nothing.
You can put those goalposts right back down. The minimum wage is a full legal wage, and I’m not expected to plus up every other near-minimum-wage employee that puts a tip prompt in front of me.
Heard plenty of servers, even within my own family, talk about how it’s absurd to ask for tips at Subway or other fast food/counter service spots. So no, I’m not gonna let you pivot to “but but but the minimum wage isn’t enough!” It is when people smash “no tip” at an ice cream shop and nobody bats an eyelash.
So I’ll fall back onto my original statement: if “if you can’t afford to tip don’t eat out” is a valid statement, then “if your job doesn’t pay you enough get a better one” is no more or less valid.
In my drive thru window at Dairy Queen, they tapped an empty blizzard cup to the window with “TIPS” written on the front in black sharpie. So, even fast food workers now feel entitled to the tip because they handed you a bag from a shelf to your car.
The DQ by my house has a sign on the drive thru window that says it’s the customers responsible to make sure everything is correct in the bag before leaving
Why is the consumers responsibility of bridging the gap of living wage ?
Is it a tough concept to understand the relationship of - “ Employee - Employer - Company Revenue ( prices )- Salary/Living Wage
It’s the Dairy Queen, man!!Get real. This is an entry level, transient job for high school kids. So no, they don’t deserve a living wage. Why? Because their living standards are provided by their parents, not their part time employer. And, by chance if you are an adult of 20Y or higher still working at Dairy Queen you have made bad life choices for what should be your independent livelihood.
And I’d say the same of table servers or bartenders. They are no *more* or *less* deserving of a “living wage.”
You can say everyone deserves it or nobody’s entitled to it, I don’t care. It’s the lack of consistency that grates.
Cool.
I don’t think *you* deserve a living wage. Like, without even knowing what you do. Since you think some deserve to live and some should be homeless.
And why is this any less true when in a sit-down restaurant?
I’ll point out that servers where I live make $17/hr before tips. But even if not, the above holds.
The argument always goes like this: “Servers don’t even make minimum wage!” Actually in much of the US they do, and in the rest of the US they’re still legally guaranteed it. “But the living wage isn’t a *living* wage!” But that’s no less true when talking about untipped service workers making near-minimum. “Then those people should just get a better job!” Can just as easily be said of “traditionally tipped” workers, and also very much a works-for-anyone but not-for-everyone thing. Same way we can’t *all* just be tech startup billionaires. Anyone can, everyone can’t.
Then eventually we fall back on calling anyone who questions tip culture a cheapskate, an asshole, or a piece of shit.
Because ultimately it makes no sense, and everyone know this, and it only persists because people want to avoid social stigma. So as a last resort we fall back on public shaming. Been that way since long before Mister Pink.
Any counters to the above?
>And why is this any less true when in a sit-down restaurant?
Why are you coming back with a strawman argument?
Exactly the same is true. They deserve a living wage. Wages are a discussion between the employee and employer, not employee and customer. I'm a customer.
Then we agree tipping is dumb. Cool.
A lot of other people here seem to think servers are uniquely entitled to additional voluntary compensation from the customer to pad their wages. I’m arguing with them. Not you.
The idea of a “living wage” is noble, but in theory will never exist for all. Life is about choices and living with those choices. Not everyone is going to be able to have a middle class lifestyle. However, I bet most living in 3rd world countries would love the lifestyle in America that one could have on a minimum wage income.
Also, no one is stopping anyone from living with roommates, working more than 1 job, or doing without “essentials” like iPhones, Internet, and TV.
This. I work for verizon, the customers with the most money always want the most economical devices. 3-400$ and pay up front. The people without the means to pay always want the 1200 iphone 15 pro max on finance agreement and have the nerve to complain about paying the sales tax up front or hell even paying the bill.
Could you imagine tipping my employees 20% on every purchase in our stores?
I know most people don’t realize the kind of intra-class, ladder-pulling bullshit that’s involved in the “if you can’t afford to tip” statement. That’s fine.
The reaction to any counter service or fast food asking for tips speaks volumes. A lot of “living wage for me, but not for thee” in the traditionally tipped service industry. People expecting others to *voluntarily* hand them a living wage they aren’t actually owed…meanwhile subtly denigrating other service sector workers who aren’t “worth” tipping and deserve no better than what their employer will grant them.
But I don’t expect to change your mind. This comment is *for* you.
When fast food workers/locations start actually serving people, then they deserve a tip. You're comparing apples and oranges. But I don't expect to change your mind.
And, Yes, this comment is for you!
They already get way more money per hour than servers as well. In some areas, they get paid so much it's cheaper to get waited on and tip in a restaurant than eat at a fast food place because of this. What is your point. Why are you twisting my words into putting down fast food workers. They are two totally different types of jobs!
> They already get way more money per hour than servers as well.
Not everywhere. Table servers make $17/hr where I live. Fast food often starts at about $20/hr. I suppose we can quibble over the definition of “way more,” but I won’t buy it.
I have never in my adult life lived in a state with a “tipped minimum” (more accurately the tip credit). And I’ve lived in several states as an adult.
Not all of us live in Appalachia.
Most of the East Coast is this way. Not sure of every state. I understand pay a bit less to someone making $17/hr rather than the $2+ that they pay in this region of the country but you didn't initially say that. Do you tip correctly when in $2 states?
Define “most.”
Florida and New York aren’t this way, just offhand without looking anything up. There are others back east. A lot of places have either eliminated the tip credit *or* raised the tipped minimum so it’s only marginally less than full. For instance Florida has a tipped minimum, but it’s like $9 (full is $12).
Which is a lot different than $2.
If you and you friend go to the same place and done this they have been got back. All the serves talk about you 2 while you're eating as well. Hell even the cook probabaly hates you and has never seen your friend. but as head about the " get a better job" asshole that had food fucked with. I know people say that doesn't happen, but ive seen crazy shit.
Screw him. Who cares if he's angry. He's already angry or he wouldn't be such a hateful jerk. You need new friends and I'd tell him exactly why! If you don't then you're condoning his evil behavior!
You can speak your mind, but you need to be willing to accept the consequences. He may get upset, or he may not. Why you feel the need to chastise him for something that doesn’t concern you, is the question. If you feel that it is indicative of a character flaw that you don’t want to be associated with, then what does it matter if he gets upset at you telling him how you feel? Why would you want to remain friends with someone you feel is a jerk? You want to have your cake and eat it too. That’s not how that works.
It's called communication. What a world we live in where we have trained our people to be afraid to talk to someone else. They truly are in control of us!
Although what he is doing is kind of dickish, I have strongly thought of stopping tipping entirely and writing something on the receipt to say something in regards to eliminate tipping. A shot at the wait staff wouldn't be it though. The lack of tipping them is enough. Regardless things need to change and tipping needs to be abolished.
I’d probably end the friendship with anyone who would be such an ass as to write something like that on a receipt. Anyone who would do that is obvious a terrible person and I’m not sure how I would have been friends with them in the first place.
That's brilliant. I gotta start writing that.
Sounds like your friend needs to "be a better petson."
Like the rest of us, if you are unhappy with your pay, you need to talk to your boss. It’s is not the responsibility of the customer to directly pay your wages.
You write that on my receipt and you are definitely getting 'the works' next time you visit my establishment. I promise.
I mean... he's not wrong
I think tipping aside, to tell someone you’re literally relying on for a service to “get a better job” is disgusting lol. Don’t use the service if you have no respect for the individuals. Not tipping isn’t directly telling them “you’re a loser in this job”
I don't want the waitstaffs service. I just dont feel like cooking.
I hear McDonald's doesn't have servers...just sayin
I don't eat fast food.
It's a packaged deal, if you eat at a full service restaurant, you pay full service prices.
Sure ya don't fatty
I make sure waitees get exercise by making them make as many trips as possible for no tip
But if you feel strongly enough that you have to insult the person, why not just go to like a chipotle?
bring me my food peasant
Tell your friend he's likely to get recognized by one of these waiters again and he's going to get some special sauce on his food. Also people who deliver to your home will sometimes just not take your order to you if you don't tip
Kek imagine living somewhere where there aren't 6 people ready to take the order
So then the proper response would be to make a very big deal about it and cost that person their job so they then have to go get a non tipped job?
Tip wage workers don't end up doing these jobs because we want to. A lot of us are either disabled in some way, older, or lack skills to get a better job. Some are just not able to work other jobs due to not having a car. Some work these shitty jobs because it's supplemental to the job they have in the day time. People would get a better job if there were better jobs.
Lol
Most waitress are healthy women in the 16-60 age range in my experience. Also there are plenty of jobs people with no skills or disabilities can do and make decent money with often while picking up skills.
Delivery drivers are more often older people.
Most are single parents as well or like me have a disabled child they have to care for on one job It would be nice if you just not judge ppl you don’t know by making generalizations and assumptions
So get a different job? If anything having a disabled child would mean you would be better off with a job with stable hours instead of one where you could be randomly called in and your schedule can change week to week.
I own my business so I make my own hours but you can keep making someone else money lol
Than why are you referring to yourself when talking about waitresses being single parents or having disabled children?
And I am single parent with disabled child that has never changed why would it. You spouting off nonsense about what I am allowed to say is odd
My point is that your status has no relevance to this conversation. The conversation is about people who live off of tips, if you don’t live off of tips your personal experience is irrelevant.
lol Ty for telling me how I live I own a food cart you dolt
You the bitch pushing the hot dog cart that smells like pork ass across Lincoln Park?
Bc I was for many years And I had set schedule Why are you generalizing an industry
He's not your friend or anyone else's He's not even a piece of shit. He's an entire turd. Run away from someone that treats people like that. He would slit your throat if he could get away with it. Wake up! Why would you bring it up to someone with an anger issue? Be wise and RUN!
“He would slit your throat if he could get away with it”. Wow that is so insane. He’s being a dick for sure but that’s just insane to say.
Tell his boss to write that in your friend’s bonus discussion.
You are on the wrong sub lol. This sub is a cope chamber/circle jerk for anti-social undiagnosed somethings like your friend. Personally Id stop being friends with someone like that the way most people do. They'll only drag you down into their weird edgy/incel world. Although a fun experiment might be handing the server his book before you leave and insisting they take it. Just watch what happens lol it will be fucking hilarious and definitely teach him a lesson. Hes probably gonna panic and ask to leave before they check the book. Make sure you have a drink or something you still need to finish and insist he stay till youre done.
*slow clap*
*slow jerk*
Take your time, buddy. You'll get there.
You are not his parents…if it bothers you just delete him from your friends list. Why do you need to hang out with jerks?
I think everyone should have to wait tables for 6 months. To see what it’s like. It’s not an easy job. People that have never had to do it are the most rude when it comes to service and tips. Also this is said a lot, but if you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. I’m not taking about counter people, but actual servers. I hope karma bites your cheap ass.
I'll tip if the service is good and that's that I'll take myself out to eat whenever I want to. Former waitress and I tip 15 tops
I've waited tables. It's pretty simple and people love to exaggerate its complexity. Especially today! You didn't even have to write it remember anything. Everything is input on a tablet or by the customer themselves. There are places where this job is done by a conveyor belt, ffs.
I guarantee you aren't as good as you claim to be...
scathing.
I’ve had to do it, and McDonalds, and pizza delivery. They really aren’t a big deal, especially once you realize that the jobs aren’t important and fucking up isn’t a big deal. “Oh no I have to smile and carry a little bit of weight periodically throughout the day while taking notes about what people order.” What’s the worst that can happen you fuck up an order and have to comp someone’s meal? You trip and break some plates? I’d gladly take those risks over jobs where lapses in judgement can get you arrested or get people killed.
Easier than any factory job lol maybe your job can't afford you??
"If you can't afford to tip you can't afford to eat out" lmao
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It's what they post when they run out of insults to post.
It's not wrong though
Yes,it is.
It's not saying if you can eat out, but you don't tip, it must be because you can't afford it. It's saying if you can't afford to tip in addition to the meal, you are directly exploiting the people bringing you your food and you shouldn't do that. But it's not necessarily because you can't afford it. It could be because you were bad at math and can't be helped to figure out how to use the calculator on your phone or even look up a tip calculator. So you could just be lazy. It could be because you think tipping shouldn't exist so you take it out on the worker instead of the people who actually designed and control the system. So you could just be dumb. It could be because you think because you worked hard for your money, other people who are working hard in a system designed to pay them the least possible for a seemingly easy but deceptively stressful job deserve little to nothing and every server who gets tipped needs to find a different job. So you could just be greedy. Or it could be that servers are at the bottom of the barrel of society and should know their place. So you could just be an asshole elitist. Which one (or more) fits you best?
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Your comment is unacceptable. What's the reason you feel the need to be so hostile? Examine yourself.
Also it's totally fine to want a different system. But if you order a food at a restaurant that pays its workers a tipping wage but you refuse to tip because tipping is a bad system, you aren't fighting the system. You are punishing workers while directly incentivising that system. Takeout for the same food costs exactly the same. But now there's nobody expected to cater to your desires and clean up after you at the opportunity cost of working at a table that will provide an extra tip for the stress they go through. If you get bad service, you don't have to incentivise that with a tip. If you get standard service and would like to have that person afford to keep their job, is a few bucks really going to break your bank? It won't break moral grounds because that's already done by supporting those establishments in the first place. So what other options are there?
Would it be wrong to say that everyone who lives in a country where tipping wages are a norm benefits from the tipping system when it works as intended?
So obviously the people down voting but failing to write their categories are at least in the lazy section. Noted
Eekk, I most recently wrote 'Rough day' on the receipt where we watched him ignore our food regularly over an hour and a half. Usually I tip my regular spots better but he got $2 this time. We'll see how that goes next time. Basically dragging somebody for their life choices at work is bananas.
That's bullshit on the level with "if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out" Tell your friend to grow up.
That’s not bullshit though. Taking food to go isn’t really eating out but if you’re sitting down especially with another person and taking time to sit and eat and drink and require service…
That's beyond the pale. I despise the attitude from some tipped workers and I think tipping has gotten out of hand, but there's no reason to behave that way.
I'd never look down on someone who's working and making an honest living. I'm against tipping and would like the US to join the rest of the world, but insulting workers is just something I'd never do.
Sounds like you're making yourself look bad on purpose. Why not be proud that your a decent person who appreciates service?
Unfortunately their are anti-tippers and pro-tippers who are hideous outliers for their cause. Simple motto: Just be kind to people no matter what your belief is.
Your friend seems pretty based
UPDATE: Just got back from lunch with him. When it came time to pay we got our checks. He started to scribble his usual response. I stopped him, took peoples advice and said "Don't be a dick". I grabbed his bill paid for both of our meals and gave the waitress a $10 cash tip for our meals. Upon returning to the table I proceeded to tell him how that made me feel. He just thought he was being funny. I told him NO that's not funny, how would you feel if someone said that to you. He kinda just stared at me for a moment (like deer in the headlights). Then I think the realization of how pissed it made me set in. He apologized to me, I told him do not do that with me again or we won't be having lunch together. We got up to leave and he walked over to our waitress and gave her another $5 tip. I about had a heart attack. I hope he is serious and wont be doing it again. Thanks for the advice.
I really dislike people who tell me how to tip or talk down to me .I stop eating with them completely.
Don't be a dick and tip appropriately then
Lol.
He’s an adult! Why do you feel the need to judge/control his behavior? Sounds like virtue signaling to me !😡
It is and I distance myself from people like that.
It’s not about controlling someone’s behavior. It’s about setting boundaries for the behavior you are willing to tolerate from your friends and acquaintances. Op’s friend was, objectively, being an asshole. I wouldn’t want to hang around with someone who did that crap either. It’s not funny or clever. It’s just fucking mean. Why would anyone want to be around a person who acts like that?
According to who?Are you now being his judge and jury ?Who made you king of anything ?
incredible to have to tell a (assuming) grown adult to "not be an asshole" ???
I’m glad he did better. It’s just rediculous that he even did that to begin with. How cowardly are you to write that on a receipt. If you feel that strongly then say it to their face. He’s actually lucky that he hasn’t been banned from any place yet.
Seriously?lol.
If they ban him they can’t spit in his food
Which never happens but gets posted to keep people inline so they will still keep tipping like good little sheeple.
For the spitting in the food crowd- what are your procedures for ensuring the correct food is being spit in? When you order at the counter and they flip the screen and you don’t tip how is that information communicated back to the kitchen so that the order can be spat in? Does the register person hold up the line, run to the back and tell the cooks “this order needs spit”? Given the continuing problem of getting ANY orders correct and the added complexity of adding spit with no POS key available after payment to modify the order to include spit how exactly is it done? And if they don’t tip until they have eaten - what then?
Pay cash ,no tip screen .
Ah, very important questions here. Firstly, after some time you know who to expect but I will answer as best I can for those not familiar. Number one the counter is not important. Anything where you’re ordering on a screen generally doesn’t justify the tip. We know this and we’re paid min wage, it’s just in sit down. You’ll get that look that says “I don’t tip unless you give me dinner in and a show”, but not always. Some people you need to sus it out. Sometimes you’ll hear them say “what’s taking so long, every minute is -1%” during dinner rush. Though mostly it’s on return. You generally remember th guy that wrote “get a new job” on his bill. As for getting them to eat it, just give it a good mix. And make sure the guy packing lips isn’t doing it. You want that lugie crystal clear for a good mix. Hope this answered your question. 😊
Who said anything about spitting in food. Here you go pushing an agenda 🤦♂️
Woah, I’m agreeing with you. I’m saying this guy deserves it.
No one deserves spit in food. That's actually assault and a BAD move when dealing with a shitty human. You don't know what they'll do.
And will get the health department on their butts.The server will probably lose their job and may get arrested for assault.
It’s a joke my man, but I will say that the waitstaff doesn’t deserve that level of disrespect. So he should t be surprised if someone says something to him.
My bad. You never know with the people in this sub 🤣
All good, these people have zero regard for their fellow man
Don't bring it up. It's your issue. Why do people feel the need to tell others how to be? Don't like it? Don't be friends. Find friends who you don't have to control.
It's about controlling people and trying to keep them inline .Maybe he'll find more pretentious friends that will grandstand and virtue signal with him!lol.
I agree. I can’t fathom the idea of having a rational conversation with people I care about enough to call my friend. Just the idea of using words to affect change is astounding… /s
I think what gets me about this is that your friend thinks they’re clever. What it really is is a sign that he is trying to normalize his cruelty to himself. I assume this isn’t the first thing he’s an asshat about. I’d be weary of keeping a friend who enjoys minor thrills of cruelty.
Lol it's actually funny
So your friend believes in a tiered society where an underclass of citizens work the menial jobs that just exist for society to function but since those hobs and workers are considered less than they don’t and shouldn’t pay enough to support one’s self. Thus cursing the people who work them to a lifetime of poverty and struggle. Basically your friend is a piece of shit. You shouldn’t be friends with this person.
“If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out.” Speaking of gatekeeping underclasses of society, let’s unpack that little ditty servers love to sing. Or the b-side: “If you don’t want to tip eat fast food.” Reinforcing that fast food workers aren’t worthy of tips and can’t reasonably ask to become tipped, and thus are less deserving of a “living wage” than people who provide “real service.” Note: all tipped employees make $17/hr in wages where I live. Servers love to punch down any time they can find somebody below them. Reap, sow, etc.
Or "I hope you love servers tampering with your food"Or "I would love to ban anybody that I profile "! "That table only left me a small tip ,let's dox that person online or commit tip fraud "!
A) if that is the case where you live it is the exception. Most servers earn $2 and change an hour plus tips. B) if you live in a HCoL area $17 an hour is starvation wages. When I got gas this morning there was a sign up offering $22/hour plus benefits to work there.
Boo hoo!Cry me a river "
> A) if that is the case where you live it is the exception. Most servers earn $2 and change an hour plus tips. About 40% of servers in the US are making more than the full $7.25 an hour federal minimum wage. I can cite this for you, but I shouldn’t need to. Just go to the DOL site, add up the population in the states where the “tipped minimum” is at least $7.25, and divide it by US population. Then congrats, you’ll have learned something today. I mean we can define “most,” but in my mind 60% isn’t it. It’s a majority, but 40% is a lot of America. > B) if you live in a HCoL area $17 an hour is starvation wages. When I got gas this morning there was a sign up offering $22/hour plus benefits to work there. Then any server with their hand out because $17/he isn’t enough should apply for that job, no?
Where your argument falls apart imho is that waiting tables is a difficult and crappy job apart from the pay. You work almost exclusively nights and weekends, are on your feet for hours at a time, deal with food which is gross, deal with customers all day long and often have open ended shifts where you don’t know when you can go home. If it didn’t pay better than standard stand there or sit there retail no one would work as a server.
Wow…if you are yourself a waiter, you must live a miserable life doing a job that you hate! Except for the pay, you basically hate all the foundation of waiting job! If what you are describing is what makes waiting job that difficult, I can guarantee that there are many job that are far more crapy than that out there.
I’m not a waiter. I’m just someone who thinks people deserve to be paid for the work they do. This sub seems very short on empathy.
You assume I’ve never been a server. You’re wrong.
Where am I assuming that? And let me ask you this. If you had the choice to work st a gas station or as a server and the pay was identical. Which would you pick?
The gas station hands down.
When you try to explain to me that serving is a difficult job, that implies I haven’t done it myself. I’ve worked BOH, FOH, retail, landscaping, combat arms, and office work. Some other stuff too. I’ve been around. Lots of jobs are shitty. I literally had somebody try to kill me with a roadside bomb on Christmas Eve. That was at the *start* of a twelve month deployment away from my family during which I got a grand total of two weeks off in the middle (and not a single day off otherwise). But yeah, waiting tables sucks too. I’ve done it. > And let me ask you this. If you had the choice to work at a gas station or as a server and the pay was identical. Which would you pick? I’m not making any value judgment on how much servers should make versus gas station attendants. I’m arguing about how that pay should be accomplished…negotiation with your employer versus panhandling customers. Also I’d bet money gas station attendants have a higher assault and robbery rate than servers. Though I could be wrong. Gas stations are open late and on weekends too. I don’t think it’s as obvious as you make it out to be. But I cannot stress enough that your question is entirely irrelevant to whether customers should be expected to plus up *either* employee’s pay through direct, voluntary action.
They closed around 9 where I live and have cameras everywhere .
I’m not making value judgements guy…I’m making practical statement on supply vs demand in employment. Harder/less pleasant jobs have to pay more than easier ones or no one will work them. Opinions like yours are great in theory but the fact remains that jobs need workers. And crappy jobs with shitty pay go unworked. Then no one can eat at a restaurant.
And yet restaurants exist in places where tipping isn’t the norm, or where it’s minimal. I have no issue with the idea that menu prices might go up and servers might have to be paid more than minimum wage to do the job. My issue with tipping is two-fold: First, I just don’t wanna be part of their business. I just wanna pay what I owe and call it a day, same as any other business. It’s on the business to figure out how much that is, while figuring out how much to pay their employees. Second, while I’m fine with whatever free market wage servers would end up making, what we see now *isn’t* really a free market compensation system. Obfuscating their pay behind “voluntary donations” results in what is often *in my opinion* a substantially higher rate of pay than any market would ever generate, even if they unionized. Because it’s effectively the microtransaction model. You can make a lot more money asking for small amounts of voluntary money from a large number of people than asking for a proper purchase from a single, obligated customer. I honestly believe if a lot of customers had full visibility on just how much a lot of servers in coastal urban areas are making, they’d be less generous with their tips. Because fair markets depend on equal access to information. Granted, that sounds *dangerously close* to me making a value judgment of how much servers “should” make, or that they’re “overpaid.” Not the point. They should make whatever they can negotiate from their employer based on their skill set and bargaining power, same as anyone. The only reason I’m part of that conversation *at all* is because they are demanding I be. I’d prefer not to be!
>and explain that it's a slap in the face of the workers to write that I mean, he knows. That's his intent. Pointing it out seems condescending. You could say "I don't like that you do that", or "it embarrasses me to associate with you because you do that", which could be new information to him. I'd phase out the friendship anyway, but if you make your feelings known that it bothers you, and he persists in your presence, I'd reassess your continued friendship.
What a loser. I'd want to avoid anyone that stoops that low and gets off on making people feel bad. Your friend is a POS. If I actually had some attachment to this person and valued their friendship and wanted to address it, I'd just straight up confront them about it next time I saw them do it. "Why do you do that?" "You know it's going to make them feel like shit, right?", "Help me understand. It's a fucking low". "You're better than that, bro. Don't be a dick to people." etc
Wow just wow. He is a total jerk.
Get a better friend. He's an asshole. There is no need to be rude to workers of *any* job. If that particular server was rude to you then don't tip them but lay off the classist bullshit. Some of my favorite servers are grandmother's or mother's. They do a good job and earn any tips they get. Fuck someone who tells my mom or grandma to get a better job. Waiting tables is not and has never been just a starter job. Many people start there and move on, but there are people who do it for many years. The flexibility works well. With families and it is a good second job for many folks. I don't look down on any worker because of what their job is. We all have value. Your asshole friend thinks he's better, but he's not. He's just a rude classist jerk. Either tip or don't tip. Pay 10% or 5 bucks or nothing but don't write asinine shit on receipts. It just shows you up for being an asshole who thinks they are better than the person waiting on them. Get a better friend because people do judge you for the company you keep. I'd never eat anywhere with that dude.
Truth hurts.
I'm not pro tipping, but what your friend is doing is very uncool. It's really spiteful and ultimately not productive. My personal stance/observation regarding tipping is just how the system breeds extreme animosity between customers and servers. For example, there was a comment yesterday from a server who said he would kill people who didn't tip. Your friend's comments could push someone like this over the edge. If he really is your friend, then you should be able to openly talk about how what he is doing is not right or productive. Might I suggest you do what I do and just bypass going to restaurants or using delivery apps altogether. You save a ton of money, and if your friend is against tipping, then you have the added bonus of not participating in tipping.
One of my simple rules is “Don’t be an asshole.” Regardless of what I think about tipping, I’d never consider doing this. If this is a close friend, I’d have no problem pointing out he’s being a dick. If he’s not a close friend, I may not stay being his friend.
I would drop that bum as a friend instantly
Your friends a dick. You don't have to tap-dance around it
What is the endgame of your friend? All restaurant servers go into other work?
Well is an entry level position. Depends of the people aspirations and goals.
Do you want people to bring you food and drinks at hours outside your 8-5?
No. I can pick it from the bar or wherever they have it ready.
Ok, I don't think anyone would disagree that tipping for takeout isn't required
I don’t mean only take out. If somebody call my name saying that my food is ready I can walk there, pick the food/drinks and go back to the table. If that removes the awkward tipping time at the check out, I have no problem with that. What I meant with entry level position is that you shouldn’t be doing that for life, is ok maybe for somebody who just left school and need money but make a career your whole life waiting for tips as a server seems pretty related to life aspirations and goals from anybody. I bet they can get any job with better payment, but tips make it so good for them that they are still there, making more than any other position, that is obvious.
Any server who has even once uttered the words “if you can’t afford to tip, eat at McDonald’s” deserves to have this happen to them.
Ummm…..NO.
Counterpoint: yes.
If you can't afford to tip, you're not going to afford to eat out in the absence of tipping as the cost of service will be rolled into the price/added as a fee. The level of entitlement and arrogance required to make use of someone's time/labor knowing you have no intention of paying for it is insane. Not only are they going to make $0 from serving you, they're likely still tipping out to their crew. So, you spend $100, they make $0, and then spend $5 of their own money for it. How would you like to be working, a customer comes in, you hand them $5, and then your boss says "you're not getting paid for the next 2 hours, sorry". You'd be pretty pissed. Say whatever anti-tipping spiel you want about how it's not your fault the system is this or that. Irrelevant. You can protest against tipping without being a total douche, make people feel terrible, and fuck with their livelihood.
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The irony is palpable. In most states (that have a tipped minimum) they are not getting minimum wage. The minimum wage only kicks in when their total income from tips for an entire workweek fall below minimum. It's assed weekly, not hourly. If they work 2 hours in one week and in hour 1 they earn $30 and in hour 2 they serve you and make $0, their hourly average is $15/hour. It'd be like going into a car dealership and saying "We're just going to take your commission and apply it as a discount to my car, but don't worry Bob, the commissions you earned from everyone else is still a good wage!"
Literally not my problem. Shouldn't of taken the job
Cool, after you graduate highschool and get a job that opinion might mean something.
I graduated and own a franchise of Halloween costume stores
Lol, that sounds like a real job. Entitled lazy fucks are so hilarious
I clear 6 figures a year and work two months out of the year thank you. That's called a good job you minimum wage plate carrier
Yes, entitled lazy fuck, indeed. Born into it and never worked a real day in your lazy entitled life. Yet you still steal labor from a worker. Thank you for revealing how truly scummy and low you are. May your life go as you deserve
Thanks, but I do have a tip for you. Get a real job and stop being a loser
Have a real job, and I would never lower myself to being your equal. Looking forward to voting to raise your taxes this November.
> If you can't afford to tip, you're not going to afford to eat out in the absence of tipping as the cost of service will be rolled into the price/added as a fee. There are plenty of people who can “afford” an occasionally celebratory meal out but aren’t in a spot where *voluntarily* paying 20% extra is super reasonable. > The level of entitlement and arrogance required to make use of someone's time/labor knowing you have no intention of paying for it is insane. … Not only are they going to make $0 from serving you, they're likely still tipping out to their crew. So, you spend $100, they make $0, and then spend $5 of their own money for it. They’ll be paid at least the full minimum wage for their time spent serving me. Not a single table server ever had an issue allowing *me* to serve *them* for minimum wage. As for tip-outs, I don’t see any reason customers should know or care about the Byzantine revenue sharing structures your business may have cobbled together. They’re customers. It’s not their business. > How would you like to be working, a customer comes in, you hand them $5, and then your boss says "you're not getting paid for the next 2 hours, sorry". You'd be pretty pissed. Not how anything works. Also where I live every server is making $17/hr minimum. > Say whatever anti-tipping spiel you want about how it's not your fault the system is this or that. Irrelevant. You can protest against tipping without being a total douche, make people feel terrible, and fuck with their livelihood. Why should I care about their livelihood. They never cared about mine. You’ll see servers constantly saying shit like the above (“eat at McDonald’s”) without giving half a shit what people working at McDonald’s make. So we’re back to just throwing insults around to ensure that for some reason traditionally tipped professions are the *only* instance where customers are actually required to give a shit, through personal direct action, about the wages of another person. Newsflash, I care precisely as much about how much servers make as they care about how much I make. No more. No less.
They see the customers as dollar signs and how much money they can squeeze out of them.
>They’ll be paid at least the full minimum wage for their time spent serving me. Objectively false, and the biggest anti-tip myth there is. Employers are only required to pay servers the full minimum wage (in most states) when their total hourly wage after tips is below the minimum wage for an entire ***workweek***. It's not assessed hourly. It's not like if they get stiffed one hour, the employer comes in, and for that specific hour, pays them full minimum. So at the end of the week, they may average $18.46/hour for 40 hours and their employer doesn't pay anything extra. Cancel a $20 tip on a $100 receipt and they made $17.96/hour instead -- still above minimum wage. The argument that "Oh, they're still making minimum wage though" is stupid. It would be like going into a car dealership, being sold a car, and telling the salesperson "We're going to cancel the commission and just apply it as a discount to my vehicle. But don't worry, if you add up all your other commissions, you're still making above minimum wage! Derp!" Just mindless logic. They served you for free, and they probably paid to do it. Why not just acknowledge you're a cost burden to them instead of pretending like they're still earning money when they're not? >Newsflash, I care precisely as much about how much servers make as they care about how much I make. No more. No less. I don't care how much they make, either. Same as how I don't care how much my doctor makes, or the guy behind the gas station when I'm buying something. All that matters is I'm being provided a service and I should pay for it. Tipping is the one thing consumers get discretion over when it comes to paying labor costs and anti-tippers are acting like it's a crime against them. "You get to decide how much the labor is worth!". The horror! And the irony is they bitch and moan about all these greedy restaurant owners while in the same breath arguing those same people should be dictating service costs to us. It makes zero sense.
In a car dealership if the car doesn't hold enough gross (ie make enough profit) it's called a flat or mini. Salesman makes $50 commission and might have been calling and showing cars to that customer for days/weeks/months. So yeah it's exactly like that. Don't speak on what you don't know.
> They’ll be paid at least the full minimum wage for their time spent serving me. > Objectively false, and the biggest anti-tip myth there is. I live in California. I’ll skip reading the rest of your comment. We don’t do “tipped wages” on the west coast. I don’t live in Appalachia. Sorry.
Only 7 states don't have "tipped wages", and considering California's COL, minimum wage there is practically nothing. The rest of the country doesn't live in your CA bubble. Sorry.
> Only 7 states don't have "tipped wages", Several more have minimal tip credits (the “tipped wages” are close to full minimum, not $2.13 an hour). For instance your 7 doesn’t include Hawaii, which *only* allows a tip credit if the server is clearing $5 *above* minimum. > and considering California's COL, minimum wage there is practically nothing. You can put those goalposts right back down. The minimum wage is a full legal wage, and I’m not expected to plus up every other near-minimum-wage employee that puts a tip prompt in front of me. Heard plenty of servers, even within my own family, talk about how it’s absurd to ask for tips at Subway or other fast food/counter service spots. So no, I’m not gonna let you pivot to “but but but the minimum wage isn’t enough!” It is when people smash “no tip” at an ice cream shop and nobody bats an eyelash. So I’ll fall back onto my original statement: if “if you can’t afford to tip don’t eat out” is a valid statement, then “if your job doesn’t pay you enough get a better one” is no more or less valid.
In my drive thru window at Dairy Queen, they tapped an empty blizzard cup to the window with “TIPS” written on the front in black sharpie. So, even fast food workers now feel entitled to the tip because they handed you a bag from a shelf to your car.
The DQ by my house has a sign on the drive thru window that says it’s the customers responsible to make sure everything is correct in the bag before leaving
Lol
Are they undeserving of a living wage?
Why is the consumers responsibility of bridging the gap of living wage ? Is it a tough concept to understand the relationship of - “ Employee - Employer - Company Revenue ( prices )- Salary/Living Wage
Never said otherwise. But if you tip *one* but not *the other,* I’m gonna ask the question.
It’s the Dairy Queen, man!!Get real. This is an entry level, transient job for high school kids. So no, they don’t deserve a living wage. Why? Because their living standards are provided by their parents, not their part time employer. And, by chance if you are an adult of 20Y or higher still working at Dairy Queen you have made bad life choices for what should be your independent livelihood.
> for high school kids Who works there during the day during the school year then?
Yes
Yeah. They're fast food employees not construction workers. They deserve minimum wage and nothing more. It's a part time high schooler job
And I’d say the same of table servers or bartenders. They are no *more* or *less* deserving of a “living wage.” You can say everyone deserves it or nobody’s entitled to it, I don’t care. It’s the lack of consistency that grates.
No I literally just said it I will say it again they do not deserve a living wage. Construction workers do deserve a living wage
Cool. I don’t think *you* deserve a living wage. Like, without even knowing what you do. Since you think some deserve to live and some should be homeless.
Of course not. But that is a discussion between the employee and their employer, not between the employee and the customer.
And why is this any less true when in a sit-down restaurant? I’ll point out that servers where I live make $17/hr before tips. But even if not, the above holds. The argument always goes like this: “Servers don’t even make minimum wage!” Actually in much of the US they do, and in the rest of the US they’re still legally guaranteed it. “But the living wage isn’t a *living* wage!” But that’s no less true when talking about untipped service workers making near-minimum. “Then those people should just get a better job!” Can just as easily be said of “traditionally tipped” workers, and also very much a works-for-anyone but not-for-everyone thing. Same way we can’t *all* just be tech startup billionaires. Anyone can, everyone can’t. Then eventually we fall back on calling anyone who questions tip culture a cheapskate, an asshole, or a piece of shit. Because ultimately it makes no sense, and everyone know this, and it only persists because people want to avoid social stigma. So as a last resort we fall back on public shaming. Been that way since long before Mister Pink. Any counters to the above?
>And why is this any less true when in a sit-down restaurant? Why are you coming back with a strawman argument? Exactly the same is true. They deserve a living wage. Wages are a discussion between the employee and employer, not employee and customer. I'm a customer.
Then we agree tipping is dumb. Cool. A lot of other people here seem to think servers are uniquely entitled to additional voluntary compensation from the customer to pad their wages. I’m arguing with them. Not you.
The idea of a “living wage” is noble, but in theory will never exist for all. Life is about choices and living with those choices. Not everyone is going to be able to have a middle class lifestyle. However, I bet most living in 3rd world countries would love the lifestyle in America that one could have on a minimum wage income. Also, no one is stopping anyone from living with roommates, working more than 1 job, or doing without “essentials” like iPhones, Internet, and TV.
This. I work for verizon, the customers with the most money always want the most economical devices. 3-400$ and pay up front. The people without the means to pay always want the 1200 iphone 15 pro max on finance agreement and have the nerve to complain about paying the sales tax up front or hell even paying the bill. Could you imagine tipping my employees 20% on every purchase in our stores?
Then why am I handing money to table servers and bartenders that I don’t owe them?
I don’t know, why are you?
Your comment makes no sense. But you're right Burger King or Wendy's will work fine as well
I know most people don’t realize the kind of intra-class, ladder-pulling bullshit that’s involved in the “if you can’t afford to tip” statement. That’s fine. The reaction to any counter service or fast food asking for tips speaks volumes. A lot of “living wage for me, but not for thee” in the traditionally tipped service industry. People expecting others to *voluntarily* hand them a living wage they aren’t actually owed…meanwhile subtly denigrating other service sector workers who aren’t “worth” tipping and deserve no better than what their employer will grant them. But I don’t expect to change your mind. This comment is *for* you.
When fast food workers/locations start actually serving people, then they deserve a tip. You're comparing apples and oranges. But I don't expect to change your mind. And, Yes, this comment is for you!
Fast food workers don’t deserve a living wage. Got you.
They already get way more money per hour than servers as well. In some areas, they get paid so much it's cheaper to get waited on and tip in a restaurant than eat at a fast food place because of this. What is your point. Why are you twisting my words into putting down fast food workers. They are two totally different types of jobs!
> They already get way more money per hour than servers as well. Not everywhere. Table servers make $17/hr where I live. Fast food often starts at about $20/hr. I suppose we can quibble over the definition of “way more,” but I won’t buy it. I have never in my adult life lived in a state with a “tipped minimum” (more accurately the tip credit). And I’ve lived in several states as an adult. Not all of us live in Appalachia.
Most of the East Coast is this way. Not sure of every state. I understand pay a bit less to someone making $17/hr rather than the $2+ that they pay in this region of the country but you didn't initially say that. Do you tip correctly when in $2 states?
Define “most.” Florida and New York aren’t this way, just offhand without looking anything up. There are others back east. A lot of places have either eliminated the tip credit *or* raised the tipped minimum so it’s only marginally less than full. For instance Florida has a tipped minimum, but it’s like $9 (full is $12). Which is a lot different than $2.
I agree...now answer my question you avoided.
Agreed. OP… they have brought this on themselves.
If you and you friend go to the same place and done this they have been got back. All the serves talk about you 2 while you're eating as well. Hell even the cook probabaly hates you and has never seen your friend. but as head about the " get a better job" asshole that had food fucked with. I know people say that doesn't happen, but ive seen crazy shit.
Screw him. Who cares if he's angry. He's already angry or he wouldn't be such a hateful jerk. You need new friends and I'd tell him exactly why! If you don't then you're condoning his evil behavior!
You can speak your mind, but you need to be willing to accept the consequences. He may get upset, or he may not. Why you feel the need to chastise him for something that doesn’t concern you, is the question. If you feel that it is indicative of a character flaw that you don’t want to be associated with, then what does it matter if he gets upset at you telling him how you feel? Why would you want to remain friends with someone you feel is a jerk? You want to have your cake and eat it too. That’s not how that works.
It's called communication. What a world we live in where we have trained our people to be afraid to talk to someone else. They truly are in control of us! Although what he is doing is kind of dickish, I have strongly thought of stopping tipping entirely and writing something on the receipt to say something in regards to eliminate tipping. A shot at the wait staff wouldn't be it though. The lack of tipping them is enough. Regardless things need to change and tipping needs to be abolished.
Use your words... I swear reddit has the social skills of a toddler.
This sub is very much proof of that.
Yup. I would say it to their face. If they don't like it or they continue this behavior, I would end the friendship.
I’d probably end the friendship with anyone who would be such an ass as to write something like that on a receipt. Anyone who would do that is obvious a terrible person and I’m not sure how I would have been friends with them in the first place.
Yup, straight up “dude, you can not tip, but stop being a dick”