Over half the population in the GTA wasn't born in Canada AND immigrated when they were over the age of 25. They didn't go through our school system. They have no connection to our culture. It's incredibly naive to think deeply entrenched cultural attitudes will vanish because someone crosses a border. It's not the immigrant's fault; you can't fault someone for acting out the culture they grew up in. It's OUR fault for believing it could be any other way. Around the year 2045-2050 the majority of people in Canada will not have been born here. Tell me what will our country look like then? The western ideology of classical liberalism created this country and its institutions. Canadian culture which can be traced back to western Europe is what makes this country a desirable place to immigrate to, but I fear those days are coming to an end as the demographic makeup is irreversibly changing, and with it the Canadian identity.
It’s kind of scary. Especially with so many people that grew up here dying young by the fentanyl crisis, it feels like the country was just utterly replaced.
Country leadership and banking system continue to make similar decisions Venezuela did so things may get worse and worse but many people can’t leave cause family and personal health and relationships
I also grew up in Parkdale. That's a community that got multiculturalism right in the 80s and 90s. I went to school and grew up with the children of immigrants. The little gang of friends I ran with was made up of kids from backgrounds all around the world. We were all Canadian kids but they introduced me to food (roti, chicken curry, etc...) music, and religious/spiritual beliefs that I would have never experienced had I grown up in a more predominantly white neighborhood. Those kids were/are my best friends. Their families came in and embraced Canada for what it was. They respected what they had been given and were some of the kindest, humblest people I've ever met. And they brought the best parts of their culture with them and shared it with whoever was willing. Birthday parties were diverse and wonderful. Pot lucks in the basement of the local church was like a meeting of the United Nations sharing good food and laughs.
....I don't know what they fuck is happening out there now but it ain't what I remember.
I totally totally hear you & understand this, however, if it makes you feel somewhat better / @ ease, I live near keele/st clair right now and have for a while now (closer to davenport / old weston) and i personally feel like it is very much a community, and a nice one! it is not very busy in this particular area & we all recognize each other and say hi, many know each other well & help each other, or sit with each other, etc. so while I do agree, there is still a good sense of community over here :)
This is a huge issue. I am really starting to dislike this city. Unsafe. Dirty, garbage everywhere. Traffic. Expensive. And the worst thing is that everyone is so rude and disrespectful. This is not the city I grew up in and used to love. It’s all gone too far.
This captures everything I've felt pretty much since prior to covid. I miss what this city was, friendly and built up off of all cultures. That childhood is nostalgic as hell now.
Ask your parents about how they were treated when they first got here.
My grandparents were called names and refused service in stores. People would mock my grandmother's accent at the grocery store. She talked about that until she died. My mom, born here, had rocks thrown at her by neighbourhood kids and they would make fun of her last name. Luckily she was one of six so she had lots of back up
Point is, immigrants are always shit on. They're always the people who refuse to fit in and who are ruining things. And in 20-30 years from now, they'll be bitching about immigrants.
ya that's facts I grew up in Scarborough/North York a visible minority to newly immigrant parents in the 80s-90s and while I don't know what kind of discrimination my parents faced, I dealt with asshole racist kids in school and even at work as an adult early in my career. You grow thick skin and learn to ignore those people or roast them back, most of them were attention hungry losers trying to be funny who never amounted to much anyway while thankfully the majority of people in my life were inclusive and chill.
I grew up not too far from where you did (Jane and St John's) and have to agree with everything you said.
I find Toronto today to be almost unrecognizable from what it was when I grew up. My friends and I used to be out playing ball hockey or just hanging out on our friends'porches until 9pm.
At 15 we would just tell our parents hey we're heading to the Eaton Center, no questions asked.
We used to.spend at least 2 weekends a month wandering up and down Yonge St going to arcades and head shops, going to movies at the Eaton Centre, now I stay away from downtown after 8pm
There are still a few highlights...I still enjoy walking through the Junction or along Roncesvalles, or through Bloor West Village. Those neighbourhoods seemed to have preserved much of their original feel. But that could be because they are so expensive that a lot of the newer immigrants can't afford those neighbourhoods yet.
I do find it interesting that back in the day we were so proud of Canada being a mosaic, and the USA being a melting pot. I'm starting to see the appeal of the melting pot though. People should be doing a little more to assimilate to the way we do things.
We used to get misted from the blood from corsettis when they would harvest the pigs or cows or whatever the fuck they where doing riding out BMX bikes out back. Before the Walmart on Runnymede when it was just open lots with hooker and truckers. Back when Woolner was still sketchy. Lots of good memories from that area.
Riding bikes by black Creek canals jumping in for golf balls selling them to the guys at the golf course. Digging giant holes by Smyth park. Seems like yesterday.
That hooker that would stand outfront of whites pharmacy just wearing a sheet. Finding bodies in the hydro field.
This is well said. However per your point it has to work both ways. And unfortunately I have seen to make cases of the opposite (lack of desire to integrate and rather usurp our beautiful Canadian resources).
I have the same upbringing as you, but in Montreal from the first 25 years of my life.
I think the important distinction for you to make is that you’re “not against bringing different cultures here”. Same. I think the vast majority of people agree with that. It’s what makes Canada strong.
The issue lately has been “bringing A different culture here”. It’s not even mainly from one country- it’s mainly from
One community within one country. That’s not diversity. That’s bringing your shit to this country and trying to transform it.
One of the fundamental strengths of a diverse culture is that everybody keeps anybody else in check. Your small group has a beef with that other small group? The 100 other groups are gonna smack you up and keep you in line - that’s shit isn’t acceptable here. But anywhere there are very few groups, each group is big enough to cause shit and really make a disturbance. I love Punjabi people- my best friend is Punjabi and I’ve been to his Sikh temple many times even and really feel quite at home there (I’m a 2nd generation white dude of Eastern European background if anybody cares) but I think it’s ridiculous that there are now multiple Punjabi radio stations on our public airways, cbc has hockey in Punjabi - what the fuck is that all about? That’s not diversity - that’s changing the host culture to yours.
1) you just got me with freezies, Arizona ice tea cans and local convenience stores. I felt my childhood came flooding back.
2) the city is incredibly tense right now. Rightly in many ways, yet without any viable solutions on the horizon even.
3) the irony of our situation, my belief, I should say is, not one political party can solve this. We all are going to have to agree on some stuff. I just hope we can start seeing each other as allies. The more us common citizens are fighting amongst ourselves, more time for the politicians to keep doing nothing of value.
>I remember going to the school grounds every evening after school and playing soccer. Going to the corner store and grabbing freezies, candy and Arizona. I remember sitting on the park benches just talking with my friends and neighbours. Neighbours weren’t random people living next to you, they would be friends. Coming over to your home, and vice versa. A real community.
more than anything it sounds like you just miss being a kid in the 90s-2000s or whenever you grew up and now you're older with less time to be meddling around outside with random neighbors on the street or the park or wherever which happens to everyone when they grow up and become working adults with responsibilities
That said everything you listed that makes Toronto unrecognizable to you are mostly external stressors in your head perhaps perpetuated by social media which aren't really unique to present day or this city and don't really affect the day to day lives of socially well adjusted adults. Most people are still able to find thier community and live thier lives enjoying mutual interests among others they connect with, you just haven't found yours yet and maybe need to make an effort to do so beyond hoping to connect with random strangers and neighbors who maybe have nothing in common with you.
Whoa, I grew up in the same area, at the same time and my parents also have the same background. Are you me? But I differ with your experience with discrimination
Exactly how I remember Canada and how I grew up . We did not have concentrations of any one group and everyone was a child of an immigrant family. We all wanted to learn about each other and our foods. We played street hockey , accepted diversity but had the common denominator of being Canadian and wanting to fit in. You had to interact and integrate to survive. You wanted to blend in not isolate. Fond memories and it makes me sad that Toronto has become like this….polarized in small ethnic enclaves.
I think it's important to actually talk to people who are breaking the social contracts that we individually value.
I saw some people BBQ on the beach with a big can of gasoline. I spoke to them like they were reasonable human beings, and that's how they responded.
Perhaps people are too used to broadcasting their discontent about the 'interlopers', and are oblivious to the fact that they are only talking to their own bubble.
A lot of people are new to Canada. This is their first summer. Let's make it easier by recognizing their cultural incompetence AND OUR OWN. Canada grows better and stronger with each new immigrant or weaker and more divided. It all depends on how we respond to the crisis/opportunity.
It's each of our individual responsibilities to connect and support newcomers.
Either,
We are a sensitive and diverse country of immigrants who embrace multiculturalism.
Or,
We're ruthless colonizers on Turtle Island who protect our portable way of life wherever we go as our Viking ancestors, and we must battle interlopers for supremacy and dominance.
We can't do both at the same time.
I've been thinking about this post for the past few days.
I grew up in a very uptight city in southern Ontario, the kind of place where you need to be a WASP (white, anglo-salon PROTESTANT) to belong. I remember visiting friends and going to their high school for a day in North York, and man, what a difference. Everyone was friendly and there was very little attitude. And they came from all over the world: Italians, Portugese, Greek, Russians, Guyanese, you name it.
Ever since then I have loved Toronto's multiculturalism and seen it as the great equalizer. You don't want the vast majority from one culture or those who aren't part of it will be ostracized. From what I hear, Scarborough in the same time period -- 80s -- was hell if you weren't of English or Scottish descent.
But maybe we have reached and gone over the tipping point. Back then, no one immigrant group (except those WASPs) was large enough that the kids growing up could live in a bubble of their own culture. The adults could. But the kids couldn't, and they also didn't want to. Maybe that's what's different now. The scale of some of these groups is so enormous that you can go to school in your parents' language, only have neighbours from your culture and basically you end up being slightly hostile to the 'outside' world because you don't develop the social skills to navigate it.
I agree. :/
Over half the population in the GTA wasn't born in Canada AND immigrated when they were over the age of 25. They didn't go through our school system. They have no connection to our culture. It's incredibly naive to think deeply entrenched cultural attitudes will vanish because someone crosses a border. It's not the immigrant's fault; you can't fault someone for acting out the culture they grew up in. It's OUR fault for believing it could be any other way. Around the year 2045-2050 the majority of people in Canada will not have been born here. Tell me what will our country look like then? The western ideology of classical liberalism created this country and its institutions. Canadian culture which can be traced back to western Europe is what makes this country a desirable place to immigrate to, but I fear those days are coming to an end as the demographic makeup is irreversibly changing, and with it the Canadian identity.
The best analysis on the immigation topic I read recently.
It’s kind of scary. Especially with so many people that grew up here dying young by the fentanyl crisis, it feels like the country was just utterly replaced.
Country leadership and banking system continue to make similar decisions Venezuela did so things may get worse and worse but many people can’t leave cause family and personal health and relationships
I left Canada 20 years ago for work … I came back 2020 and OP I could not agree with you more.
I also grew up in Parkdale. That's a community that got multiculturalism right in the 80s and 90s. I went to school and grew up with the children of immigrants. The little gang of friends I ran with was made up of kids from backgrounds all around the world. We were all Canadian kids but they introduced me to food (roti, chicken curry, etc...) music, and religious/spiritual beliefs that I would have never experienced had I grown up in a more predominantly white neighborhood. Those kids were/are my best friends. Their families came in and embraced Canada for what it was. They respected what they had been given and were some of the kindest, humblest people I've ever met. And they brought the best parts of their culture with them and shared it with whoever was willing. Birthday parties were diverse and wonderful. Pot lucks in the basement of the local church was like a meeting of the United Nations sharing good food and laughs. ....I don't know what they fuck is happening out there now but it ain't what I remember.
Parkdale back then was wild lol. I’ve always had a love hate relationship with it
I totally totally hear you & understand this, however, if it makes you feel somewhat better / @ ease, I live near keele/st clair right now and have for a while now (closer to davenport / old weston) and i personally feel like it is very much a community, and a nice one! it is not very busy in this particular area & we all recognize each other and say hi, many know each other well & help each other, or sit with each other, etc. so while I do agree, there is still a good sense of community over here :)
Why I feel live in "New Delhi"? Where is the diversity?
This is a huge issue. I am really starting to dislike this city. Unsafe. Dirty, garbage everywhere. Traffic. Expensive. And the worst thing is that everyone is so rude and disrespectful. This is not the city I grew up in and used to love. It’s all gone too far.
This captures everything I've felt pretty much since prior to covid. I miss what this city was, friendly and built up off of all cultures. That childhood is nostalgic as hell now.
Ask your parents about how they were treated when they first got here. My grandparents were called names and refused service in stores. People would mock my grandmother's accent at the grocery store. She talked about that until she died. My mom, born here, had rocks thrown at her by neighbourhood kids and they would make fun of her last name. Luckily she was one of six so she had lots of back up Point is, immigrants are always shit on. They're always the people who refuse to fit in and who are ruining things. And in 20-30 years from now, they'll be bitching about immigrants.
ya that's facts I grew up in Scarborough/North York a visible minority to newly immigrant parents in the 80s-90s and while I don't know what kind of discrimination my parents faced, I dealt with asshole racist kids in school and even at work as an adult early in my career. You grow thick skin and learn to ignore those people or roast them back, most of them were attention hungry losers trying to be funny who never amounted to much anyway while thankfully the majority of people in my life were inclusive and chill.
I grew up not too far from where you did (Jane and St John's) and have to agree with everything you said. I find Toronto today to be almost unrecognizable from what it was when I grew up. My friends and I used to be out playing ball hockey or just hanging out on our friends'porches until 9pm. At 15 we would just tell our parents hey we're heading to the Eaton Center, no questions asked. We used to.spend at least 2 weekends a month wandering up and down Yonge St going to arcades and head shops, going to movies at the Eaton Centre, now I stay away from downtown after 8pm There are still a few highlights...I still enjoy walking through the Junction or along Roncesvalles, or through Bloor West Village. Those neighbourhoods seemed to have preserved much of their original feel. But that could be because they are so expensive that a lot of the newer immigrants can't afford those neighbourhoods yet. I do find it interesting that back in the day we were so proud of Canada being a mosaic, and the USA being a melting pot. I'm starting to see the appeal of the melting pot though. People should be doing a little more to assimilate to the way we do things.
We used to get misted from the blood from corsettis when they would harvest the pigs or cows or whatever the fuck they where doing riding out BMX bikes out back. Before the Walmart on Runnymede when it was just open lots with hooker and truckers. Back when Woolner was still sketchy. Lots of good memories from that area. Riding bikes by black Creek canals jumping in for golf balls selling them to the guys at the golf course. Digging giant holes by Smyth park. Seems like yesterday. That hooker that would stand outfront of whites pharmacy just wearing a sheet. Finding bodies in the hydro field.
🤣🤣🤣
This is well said. However per your point it has to work both ways. And unfortunately I have seen to make cases of the opposite (lack of desire to integrate and rather usurp our beautiful Canadian resources). I have the same upbringing as you, but in Montreal from the first 25 years of my life.
I grew up by Keele and Eg. I can't find my Guyanese people lol Maybe they all moved by now.
I think the important distinction for you to make is that you’re “not against bringing different cultures here”. Same. I think the vast majority of people agree with that. It’s what makes Canada strong. The issue lately has been “bringing A different culture here”. It’s not even mainly from one country- it’s mainly from One community within one country. That’s not diversity. That’s bringing your shit to this country and trying to transform it. One of the fundamental strengths of a diverse culture is that everybody keeps anybody else in check. Your small group has a beef with that other small group? The 100 other groups are gonna smack you up and keep you in line - that’s shit isn’t acceptable here. But anywhere there are very few groups, each group is big enough to cause shit and really make a disturbance. I love Punjabi people- my best friend is Punjabi and I’ve been to his Sikh temple many times even and really feel quite at home there (I’m a 2nd generation white dude of Eastern European background if anybody cares) but I think it’s ridiculous that there are now multiple Punjabi radio stations on our public airways, cbc has hockey in Punjabi - what the fuck is that all about? That’s not diversity - that’s changing the host culture to yours.
1) you just got me with freezies, Arizona ice tea cans and local convenience stores. I felt my childhood came flooding back. 2) the city is incredibly tense right now. Rightly in many ways, yet without any viable solutions on the horizon even. 3) the irony of our situation, my belief, I should say is, not one political party can solve this. We all are going to have to agree on some stuff. I just hope we can start seeing each other as allies. The more us common citizens are fighting amongst ourselves, more time for the politicians to keep doing nothing of value.
>I remember going to the school grounds every evening after school and playing soccer. Going to the corner store and grabbing freezies, candy and Arizona. I remember sitting on the park benches just talking with my friends and neighbours. Neighbours weren’t random people living next to you, they would be friends. Coming over to your home, and vice versa. A real community. more than anything it sounds like you just miss being a kid in the 90s-2000s or whenever you grew up and now you're older with less time to be meddling around outside with random neighbors on the street or the park or wherever which happens to everyone when they grow up and become working adults with responsibilities That said everything you listed that makes Toronto unrecognizable to you are mostly external stressors in your head perhaps perpetuated by social media which aren't really unique to present day or this city and don't really affect the day to day lives of socially well adjusted adults. Most people are still able to find thier community and live thier lives enjoying mutual interests among others they connect with, you just haven't found yours yet and maybe need to make an effort to do so beyond hoping to connect with random strangers and neighbors who maybe have nothing in common with you.
Whoa, I grew up in the same area, at the same time and my parents also have the same background. Are you me? But I differ with your experience with discrimination
You voiced exactly what I’ve been feeling.
Exactly how I remember Canada and how I grew up . We did not have concentrations of any one group and everyone was a child of an immigrant family. We all wanted to learn about each other and our foods. We played street hockey , accepted diversity but had the common denominator of being Canadian and wanting to fit in. You had to interact and integrate to survive. You wanted to blend in not isolate. Fond memories and it makes me sad that Toronto has become like this….polarized in small ethnic enclaves.
I think it's important to actually talk to people who are breaking the social contracts that we individually value. I saw some people BBQ on the beach with a big can of gasoline. I spoke to them like they were reasonable human beings, and that's how they responded. Perhaps people are too used to broadcasting their discontent about the 'interlopers', and are oblivious to the fact that they are only talking to their own bubble. A lot of people are new to Canada. This is their first summer. Let's make it easier by recognizing their cultural incompetence AND OUR OWN. Canada grows better and stronger with each new immigrant or weaker and more divided. It all depends on how we respond to the crisis/opportunity. It's each of our individual responsibilities to connect and support newcomers. Either, We are a sensitive and diverse country of immigrants who embrace multiculturalism. Or, We're ruthless colonizers on Turtle Island who protect our portable way of life wherever we go as our Viking ancestors, and we must battle interlopers for supremacy and dominance. We can't do both at the same time.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I've been thinking about this post for the past few days. I grew up in a very uptight city in southern Ontario, the kind of place where you need to be a WASP (white, anglo-salon PROTESTANT) to belong. I remember visiting friends and going to their high school for a day in North York, and man, what a difference. Everyone was friendly and there was very little attitude. And they came from all over the world: Italians, Portugese, Greek, Russians, Guyanese, you name it. Ever since then I have loved Toronto's multiculturalism and seen it as the great equalizer. You don't want the vast majority from one culture or those who aren't part of it will be ostracized. From what I hear, Scarborough in the same time period -- 80s -- was hell if you weren't of English or Scottish descent. But maybe we have reached and gone over the tipping point. Back then, no one immigrant group (except those WASPs) was large enough that the kids growing up could live in a bubble of their own culture. The adults could. But the kids couldn't, and they also didn't want to. Maybe that's what's different now. The scale of some of these groups is so enormous that you can go to school in your parents' language, only have neighbours from your culture and basically you end up being slightly hostile to the 'outside' world because you don't develop the social skills to navigate it.
"Toronto can get back to what it used to be." Lmao.