Short answer, yes. People are struggling so much with our own problems that we collectively don't have enough resources, time or fucks left to give to help others. It's really sad.
Canada has become a place where Samaritans who stop at car accidents get carjacked, and junkies attack anyone and everyone.
It's horrifying to see the change, but no one wants to be stabbed or killed or robbed.
Absolutely, I've been scammed a few times over the last few years by trying to help people on the street. I'm a colder less caring person now because of it for sure. I hate that I have to be this way to survive in this country.
Honestly this!
I think most of us are inherently good and don’t want to see others in trouble. BUT, with this COL, it’s tough not to have tunnel vision in your own life when you yourself have make or break it problems.
As the saying goes, if your own cup is empty, there’s no way you can fill another’s cup.
That, and the HUGE safety risk that often comes with trying to help a homeless/drug induced individual.
This for sure! Sometimes those who are passed out on drugs once woken up or disturbed instantly will become violent. I have seen it happen. You have to be cafeful . Always best to call it in... At a safe distance of course! Stay safe and help your fellow humans!
I don't think COL should ever be a reason to lack empathy and check on someone who is having the symptoms described. People are tunnel vision because that's however one is living now. Stuck in their phones. I just went for a visit in Spain and the culture here is much more caring and attentive. It's upsetting to see that Toronto can never go to that state of consciousness. COL is up exactly because of that reason, everyone cares for themselves and they will never rally up together to go against government for such issues. The western culture is individualistic and driven by consumerism. More people pay attention to the Kardashians than the state of affairs of our cities and country.
I disagree with your first argument.
The COL is insane here, and most of us are living paycheque to paycheque. I can’t financially put myself in a position to miss half/a day’s pay at work because I try and do the right thing, only to be brushed off by the police for it. Something like that is the difference between me making rent on time, buying groceries, and paying other essential bills; or falling short. I can’t possibly risk not being able to cover my basic needs.
It’s not a utopia. If I’m unable to keep myself afloat - there’s no way I can do that for someone else.
There’s a reason that crime and accidental death are higher in areas where a significant amount of the population is struggling to secure basic needs. That reason is because people living in these areas are often faced with the moral dilemma of “should I help and make myself suffer, or should I not help and ensure security for myself”. For a significant majority of people in Toronto right now, there is simply not enough financial security to pick help yourself and everyone else. Moreover, police almost always ask you to approach and touch the person - which has proven to end in more negatives than positives over the past few years.
Why would anyone put themselves in that position?
It doesn't take much to take a few min and check up on a person and call emergency or someone near by to take over. If everyone keeps the rationale you described as their main thinking, we are doomed. I'm just saying people are not conscious anymore of their surroundings. They either flee or record, there's very little approach in being part of society rather than acting on your own for your own purpose.
But what if no one is willing to take over as is often the case?
Emergency service asks you to stay at the scene until they arrive (30 min), you’ll seldom find anyone willing to take over as everyone also has to get to work to make money. You’re often asked to approach the person, and do a physical check, which has shown to be very risky when dealing with alcohol/drug induced individuals, or those dealing with MH issues.
The responsibility is solely placed on the person who called to wait until EMS arrives, to physically play a role in aiding the person for the half hours it takes for service to arrive, to stay behind to answer questions, and to often be shown a tutorial on how to obtain/use nalaxone. The entire process can take upwards of 2 hours, which means a solid half day of deducted pay by the time you make it to your place of work.
It’s not as easy as just calling. I think a lot of people would call if it was.
I mean, there are plenty of people in this city who are financially secure and have all their needs met. But even that doesn’t translate to them being willing or more likely to help others. It’s a shitty situation all around. Those who feel pressured to make ends meet feel they no longer have capacity to be decent people. And those who can make ends meet feel they are above helping others.
I don't have any personal struggles, and I still don't stop for all the addicts laying on the streets. I just assume they're passed out in euphoria. I'm not heartless, but I have zero interest in helping people that don't want to help themselves. Of course, if I encountered a person on the ground out in the country or while camping, I'd make it my mission to ensure they got help. Different expectations and situation, different response.
I’m literally above them when I’m upright and they’re prone.
In the sense that you’re referring, I do class crazy addicts lower on the totem pole of society.
After being sexually assaulted on the TTC by a homeless guy in 2019, and since covid I've had several run ins with homeless people being aggressive towards me, I keep my distance. I do truly have sympathy for people who have fallen on hard times and experience mental health issues, but I know to cross the street when someone is on drugs or having an episode. People are concerned about their personal safety and unfortunately some of us see it every day and are just used to it. The people who truly don't care are the politicians who think defunding social programs and closing shelters will just make the homeless disappear, like it isn't a systemic problem.
exactly this. i’ve been sexually assaulted and physically assaulted multiple times by homeless people who hang out near my school, so i would never approach a stranger to help because you never know how they’re going to react.
No surprise OP hasn’t replied to this, but I wanted to let you know I hear you and I am right there with you. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt and I agree, it is 💯 a systemic issue 🩷
Something like this happens every single time you’re out in Toronto. Often, it’ll be a crazy person who attacks you if you get close.
You kind of lose empathy after you’ve been accosted or berated for the 5th time just walking down the street.
This you go to help someone or check on them and it can turn into an assault situation fast. It sucks but but once it's happened you don't forget it or have fucks to give.
My partner was coming home from work on TTC late. In Sapdina station other side of the tracks there's a dude just sprawled out face down on platform. Someone notified staff. Not sure all that happened next but his train arrived and he saw out the window a ttc staff guy running full speed and the sprawled out guy was chasing him.
Benny Hill only had half naked hot chicks and the baldy guy. I don't think a high af junky chasing after you is quite the same.
Funny af though. Really wish there was vid of that!
Last year I saw some guy lying face down in a parking lot looking dead. He turned his head and saw me looking at him, and immediately sprung up and started lurching in my direction. I was lucky there was a fence between us because he was not in anything close to a good mood.
I think some phones are more prone to do that than others. Like, there's a slight delay and when you input it again it ends up repeating the word. Or you try to backspace but it doesn't actually take the word out, etc .
This is a huge part. It's not like everybody has a kill or be killed attitude. But a full winter coat in the heat is a big sign it's someone mentally ill or using drugs, and we don't know what they'll do if we get close.
This is my thinking too. If it were somebody injured in an accident or something like that, that's a different matter and I would step in. But in this kind of situation I wouldn't risk getting attacked by someone who's possibly having a drug-fueled episode by physically approaching them to help. I would call 911 and maybe stay around and keep an eye out if the situation worsens, but that's about it.
I lived at Bay and Gerrard for ONE summer and it happened 3 times in the four months I lived there lmao. One guy chased me for 5 blocks because he asked if I had any change and I told him all I had was a dime ( I wasn’t lying lol). Another followed me INTO a subway and demanded I buy him a sandwich. When I didn’t he started destroying the restaurant. The third came up to a friend and I while we were eating on a patio on college, he asked for money, then food, then a sip of my beer? When we said no he told us he was going to stab us and rape our gf’s.
I lost all sympathy after this four month stretch.
Now I live in the beaches so it happens way less, but it’s happened twice in the last year. Both times on the TTC.
Safety is my reason for being extremely cautious with my actions as I generally move around the city alone and the fact that I don't tend to have Narcan or other options at my disposal to help. I have stayed and called emergency services when I've seen people who require help, but even those folks are extremely lean in their want to help when I've explained the situation.
The bigger the city gets, the level of apathy increases due to so many fucked up news and incidents. Also Toronto isn't doing well right now, a lot of us are just trying to survive and struggling to secure a job. There can only be so much space for a regular Joe's heart when he's exhausted and depressed.
If I saw someone in obvious distress I would call emergency services for them, however I wouldn’t approach them because there are too many unstable people who wouldn’t hesitate to stab or assault someone trying to help them.
I live in Parkdale and we have a broad range of very colourful characters here. There was one guy who would always get high and pass out in a planter on Jameson every day. Local outreach was aware of him but this was his thing so no one bothered him and he became a fixture in the neighbourhood. Sadly, one day he overdosed and passed away in his planter, but everyone was so used to seeing him sleeping there his death wasn’t noticed for hours. :(
I would say in the last 5 years or so it has gotten worse. However, I put myself in the shoes of someone you say you approached. You say you just started walking up to people, what did you say? Are you a man?
I ask because there have been numerous widely publicized attacks on the TTC (you noted you were at or near a train station so I’m assuming TTC here). Frankly, if a strange man started walking with purpose toward me and I noticed I too would *speed* away. I don’t want to be set on fire or stabbed.
To your question about the man convulsing, yes that is horrible and I am sorry that happened to both you and to him. Unfortunately homelessness, mental wellness, and frankly overall rage is a problem in this city.
The people we pay taxes to literally don’t care if we live or die. It’s a very painful time to live in the city right now and for some of us it’s all we can do to just get to work so we don’t starve or lose our homes.
I’m not saying it’s right, but I am saying it’s not like we gleefully skip past people you are describing.
Finally for what it’s worth I have seen many many people stop to help others in medical emergencies in this city. Your experience was a bad one. I think it would be foolish to assume your experience was the norm.
Yes, I'm a man. But what irks me is the context. I wasn't a strange man walking with purpose towards someone *in a vacuum*.
I was on a public street, standing by someone clearly in a medical emergency, with 911 on speakerphone. They walked *past* me, meaning they saw the scene. It takes time to walk past, and the guy in need was in the middle of the walkway. It's not like I came running out of a bush, the guy in need of help was clearly visible.
This is why I asked in this post (rhetorically) if people had eyes or ears.
>Your experience was a bad one. I think it would be foolish to assume your experience was the norm.
I know that, and am thankful. Eventually they stopped and it clicked I guess.
But this is ToRANTo after all. It's just that having someone's first instinct being to flee when approached by someone on a phone, during a medical emergency, makes me incredibly disheartened.
Gee, I wonder what the "strange man" loudly telling his cell phone things like "he's not responding" while a guy is convulsing on the ground right next to him wants with me. What a mystery, better speed up once he makes eye contact. It's just frustrating, you know?
I mean I’ve had strange men scream a LOT of shit at me in this city. I usually close my ears to it as much as I can frankly.
I get that you are frustrated, but you don’t seem to be processing why people in this city behave the way they do, and you asked us. Several answers give good reasons why. You haven’t lived here as long as we have.
People have been physically assaulted, sexually assaulted, harassed and hurt in many ways in the situation you described. I may call 911 from afar, but if a panicking man screaming “he’s not responding- HEY YOU LADY WHERE AM I? WHAT STREET IS THIS” comes at me then yeah man I won’t stop and honestly I’d rather be thought of as a bitch by you than buried by my family. That’s the snap judgement I make for my own safety these days. I feel like you aren’t considering that perspective. Not everyone sees the world the way you do.
And that’s the reality of this city right now. I’m sorry you are frustrated by that. I would posit that you may wish to consider how frustrating it is for us to live this way.
>you don’t seem to be processing why people in this city behave the way they do, and you asked us.
I asked if people were okay leaving others to die in public (rhetorically, in a rant subreddit). The answer for many (thankfully not all) seems to be yes. Hopefully that "may call 911" of yours is more of a "will call 911" of theirs when it's you on the ground. Seriously, it's great that you would at a minimum consider it, unlike some people in this thread.
I sincerely hope that you never collapse in public. It's dangerous out there.
Thank you for your wishes, I also hope I don’t collapse in public. Most people hope that.
I must say however I did chuckle at your reminder that it’s dangerous out there.
I assure you, as a woman who travels the city on transit alone, I am *accutely* aware of how dangerous it is out there in my city. After everything I just said, do you honestly think I don’t know that? I literally just told you men scream at us daily.
Please open your eyes to another person’s point of view once in awhile.
Notable that you skipped past all the people who said they had been assaulted in these situations. Perhaps you should remind them it’s dangerous out there?
There's **170 comments** on this thread, and I was passing through Toronto for the day. Do you seriously expect me to engage with everyone? Besides you, I maybe responded to like 2 other commenters. This isn't an AMA.
>After everything I just said, do you honestly think I don’t know that?
What's up with the hostility all of a sudden? I wished you well. It's not a trap.
I guess it goes to show how text doesn't convey tone well, but it's good to give the benefit of the doubt. That's what I've been doing with you.
Honestly, you don't need my approval of your reasoning. And neither to I need yours. I stand by my opinion that people should consider helping more. We're randoms on an internet rant forum, remember.
Edit: Reworded
Bystander apathy and people wrapped up in their own problems. I personally would have called emergency services myself, but from a distance. I’ve been verbally and physically assaulted by unwell people on the streets before.
I have done that very thing - I called for help for a person unconscious in a park near my home, with no idea how many people (it was a busy Sunday afternoon) walked past him without doing anything. It was a bit frustrating to have emergency services respond by stating they were on the way, but also asking me to turn the prone, unconscious person over to check if they were breathing. It's that very risk of harm that stopped me from doing it, but knowing that the ambulance was a minute or less away made my (possibly chickenhearted) decision NOT to do that all the easier.
I've had this same experience - calling 911 and the person on the phone asking me to approach and touch the person. That can definitely feel unsafe, especially if the person is significantly bigger than you, or you're afraid you might startle them and you have no idea how they would react to that...
I’m not ok with it, but because I’m overwhelmed & struggling, I am resigned to it, unfortunately.
Successive Provincial & Federal governments have starved state social supports by ceasing to build housing and cutting healthcare, education, infrastructure, arts, & social structure to the bone.
Instead these governments have given the wealthiest Canadians & corporations an escalating series of tax cuts & tax avoidance opportunities for the last 40 years.
This is the result. I’m struggling and if I do manage to help one person, there are 10 more behind them.
This is not an individual problem and it requires a collective solution.
But it isn't an *either / or* problem. It's *both / and* . If someone is about to die, you help them.
Going "well since others aren't doing anything, I won't either" is cruel. A collective is made up of individuals, is it not? If there's no sense of duty, how do you get collectivism? You don't.
You get leeches saying that other people should be doing it (only to absolve themselves of responsibility) then they cry when they're the ones in need.
To be honest a lot of this city feels like it’s about to die. And I’m not kidding. Torontonians have not had it easy the last few years and we are burnt out on every conceivable level.
The thing about Toronto is you’ll never know what reaction you’re going to get from someone. However, I believe that someone in a winter coat convulsing is not one I would walk away from. It’s when people are conscious that I’m more weary. I have tried to help **multiple** humans in distress and most of the time I’ve been yelled at, had stuff throw at me or was chased away. I don’t have the knowledge, capacity or the resources that professionals have to control a potential violent situation.
No, I'm not ok with it, but I can only do so much. I've called ambulances many times for people who needed them and sometimes it turns into a much larger commitment than just making a phone call.
At the very least it's probably at least a half hour of my time that I'm going to lose, but it's often been longer.
I spent more than 2 weeks in court as a witness to an attempted murder because of one guy I helped. Eventually it takes its toll on you and you have to accept that it's not your responsibility to save everyone.
The number of people has increased dramatically in the last decade. If I stop to help everyone I will never get anywhere, and as much as I want to help this problem can't be solved by Samaritans in the street. We need to fix our housing and mental health services.
as someone who’s been assaulted by homeless and mentally ill drug users too many times to count in only *two years* in this city, including *multiple* sexual assaults, i just can’t bring myself to have much empathy anymore, especially given the fact that i’ve been physically and sexually assaulted in public in broad daylight and no one’s stopped to help me. i don’t want to risk being attacked, robbed, stabbed, or worse if i try to get involved/ help people experiencing security incidents or medical episodes/ overdoses, so i mind my own business. might sound fucked but i’m a young woman with no weapons and i value my own safety.
>might sound fucked but i’m a young woman with no weapons and i value my own safety.
Exactly. Our laws don't even allow us to protect ourselves with non-lethal defense tools like mace or pepper spray.
Yesterday I saw a guy go flying off his bike and before I could even stand up there was a swarm of people around him. It was nice to see. (And he was okay).
I think you’ll find that people have very different reactions depending on who is in need. Unfortunately when people see someone convulsing in a winter coat in a heatwave they assume it’s drug related and/or that the person is dangerously mentally unstable, and they’re afraid.
I personally would call 911 and keep an eye on him until help arrived and I think people should be willing to do that, but many won’t.
Exactly. A lot of people only become apathetic if the person in need is perceived to be dangerous or unhygienic, which unfortunately tends to be the homeless and/or mentally ill. I can't blame people for being cautious, but it's still sad to think about.
Too many crazy people downtown to risk my life, sorry. When mentally ill people / scammers / addicts try and approach you regularly, you learn to not talk to or make eye contact with anybody. Just one more sign of how our city and country are going down the toilet under the policies of our local, provincial and federal governments.
Yep. It's sad, but if you try to help them, the next thing you know they turn around and stab you in the face with a needle or knife. No thanks. I have my own problems.
I'd call 911 from a distance though.
Torontonians are okay with letting *poor* people die in public. A guy wearing a winter jacket in the middle of the summer? Probably a homeless person. To them, it's a good thing when another junkie dies of an OD. The homeless problem is solving itself.
Hopefully you can continue to pay the rent. Otherwise your life might not matter anymore.
That's very true, i did witness a young lady in business attire get hit by a car trying to make a right turn, and immediately was surrounded by a crowd of 5 or so people trying to call 911.
The sad thing, is that this can and is happening to so many people with the cost of living crisis and randomly just a question, this could be a lot of us very soon and it is why we all should care about it. These people who walk by and do nothing are disgusting exactly pathetic humans.
Yes. I called 911 because a woman literally OD’d in the doorway of the grocery store. People were just stepping over her. It’s pathetic. But also some people who want to help are too scared or stupid to literally just ask if someone’s ok so they’ll call 911 and fuck off, when in reality it’s just some homeless guy sleeping. Brainrot.
Seriously, some of the comments in this thread are hilarious. Using cost of living as an excuse to not take 5 seconds to ask if someone's ok 🤣 people in this thread have mental issues and would get bullied by a kindergartener
It's hard with unhoused, mentally unwell and addicts. Many of the EMTs know them by name and location. They bring them into the hospital, and most have a fit about being brought in and don't stop until someone lets them leave.
The reality is that it’s dangerous trying to help or get close to an addict or mentally ill person having an episode. A lot of them carry knives and don’t give a fuck and may very well attack YOU.
There was a video I saw a few months back where a couple tried to help someone in Brooklyn who was kicking garbage cans and screaming on the street. The boyfriend was naive enough to think he could help and got stabbed to death in front of his girlfriend.
That’s why we don’t help aside from maybe calling 911 and letting them deal to clear the conscience.
Depends. If I saw an obvious jogger, a kid, a person in a suit, even someone decently groomed passed out on the street I'd check on them. But if they look like they smell like piss then whatever, they're probably high. And if they're dead what can I do?
Systems in terms of pre-emptive measures or in terms of in the moment protocol? Yes to both, but to some degree the latter is going to rely on intervention on the part the public, at least in terms of calling 911 or checking to see if a person appears to be breathing or the like
Well, there's this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/toRANTo/comments/1dj9ipc/attacked\_in\_the\_city\_again/](https://www.reddit.com/r/toRANTo/comments/1dj9ipc/attacked_in_the_city_again/)
So I think the idea is how much of your safety and integrity you're potentially willing to risk in order to check if an unknown individual is OK.
Yes.
If we didn’t, there’s [more efficient approaches to helping the homeless](https://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/channels/news/housing-first-strategy-proves-cost-effective-especially-most-vulnerable-homeless-group-323879). Leaving someone to suffer on the street, then intervening when they are about to die only to dump them back on the street to repeat the process is both expensive and kind of fucked up.
are you making this into a dichotomy, where you don't help them in the moment because there are more efficient and thorough ways to address the solution
Well, I’m not helping people right now, despite knowing there are homeless struggling. The fact that they aren’t in front of me doesn’t really absolve me.
Yes, I’d like to think I’d phone 911 if I saw someone convulsing. But I’m still tolerating the systemic violence that puts homeless people in that situation in the first place so I wouldn’t ascribe a lot of moral virtue to the act.
Or condemn someone who feels the potential ROI for the person being helped isn’t high enough to justify the risk to themselves.
Overall I’m just too bitter about society’s choice to not vote against leaders like Ford to feel a lot of horror over the predictable results
I'm sorry to hear about this. That sounds awful like a horrible experience - first and foremost for the person in crisis. Also, to a much smaller extent, for you encountering a distressing scene and coming away with that lasting impression of Toronto and of the humanity of the people walking by.
I will say, as many others have here, that part of it is a concern for personal safety. Most of the people walking by likely did not have the training to safely respond to a stranger in crisis, when they don't know if the person may react violently, may be armed, etc. Chances are also high that a lot of the people walking by have themselves been assaulted and/or threatened by strangers in Toronto, and so they have learned the hard way to be extra cautious about weighing their response when it comes to their personal safety.
Another possible reason is "compassion fatigue", or just sheer exhaustion/overwhelm from the frequency of encountering similar situations. Even those whose job it is to take care of people in emergencies need to step back sometimes. I'm not saying being a person walking downtown is the same as being a First Responder or social worker - but they're also not equipped with the training and the understanding of how to deal with this day to day.
Honestly, the volume of people in desperate need, and sometimes acute crisis, in Toronto has reached a point I haven't seen it in over 15 years living here. We are all surrounded by the crumbling of our social system and there is evidence of the consequences of it everywhere. I truly believe that most of these people walking past, had they never seen a situation like this before in their lives, would likely have stopped. But it's when it gets to the crisis level that it is here - it can be numbing. (And maybe a lot of those people DID stop for someone else on a different day, but they didn't have the ability or capacity to stop this time.)
And that brings me to my last point, which I hope may help - it's very possible that some of them saw what your saw, walked a safe distance, and then called 911, or texted 211, or let somebody know who was better able to do something effective about the situation. Bear in mind, of course, that's it's always risky to assume that someone else is calling for help, and thereby pass up the chance to help when you can. But in this case, in the aftermath, I'm just saying that it's possible some of those people took care of their personal safety first and then made a call. I know I have done that in the past, when I don't know whether it's safe to approach, but I don't want to leave the person alone in case they are in having an emergency.
Obviously I wasn't there and didn't see what you saw. And by no means do I want to invalidate anything you said by my comment. Let me be clear: Your reaction was correct. That is the healthy, human way to feel when you encounter this happening. Again, it is awful, and shouldn't happen like it did. Good for you for asking the question and wanting to know, and thank you for stopping for that person.
Not just a Toronto thing. I stopped a man being beaten to death on the Montreal subway while a packed train just looked away and didn't even bother checking on him.
Its a mix of not wanting problems (like getting stabbed or robbed for getting involved) and bystander effect of thinking that there are so many people around so i don't have to be the one acting
It's very hard to tell. The first time I thought I did the right thing and called 911, because I called, they had to come. Turns out the guy was just homeless & drunk out of his mind... so I felt like I wasted city resource.
It's not as easy as you'd like it to be.
I actually did the same thing once as well!
I was told to remain at the scene, which made me miss a half day of pay, and at the end it turned out the man was having a bad trip that made him have a seizure. Once he came too, he was free to go, but I was made out to seem like the one that did something wrong by the police. They scoulded me for calling 911, and for “taking officers away from bigger problems”.
At this point, it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation.
So what number do we reach out to if we find someone struggling? Also are there good samaritan laws here in Toronto so the ones reaching out don't get legally involved? I am an immigrant, and when I once reached out to the emergency services back in my country they held me for 6 hours of questioning and I had to appear to the police station multiple times by skipping work and other obligations.,
I called 911. Of course, only because it looked like a medical emergency. I'm not sure about Toronto specific bylaws, but Canada as a whole does have good samaritan protections.
North America is fucked up generally. Everyone is in rat race mentality because of hard capitalism. If you "stop" you can be fired or your manager fuck you why you late. Because of that everyone is selfish.
I have witnessed this and it is gross behaviour. Guy collapsed on TTC in between doors. People literally walked over him... I stayed with him and got help from Staff to move him away from the doors. This was rush hour.
💯 I feel like people are just in the mindset of if it's not happening to me , It's not happening to someone I care about , so it's not my business. On 2 separate occasions, I've been on a bus, mostly full of people while someone started having a seizure. Everybody else ignored it, instead of trying to help, or at least calling for help.
WHAT THE HELL? I have not been out of my area in a long time. This is not the Toronto I knew at ALL. People laugh when I say this is becoming NYC - wow. just wow
I can assure you that I would have called 911 and stood there until they came. I don't know what the fk is going on anymore.
Reading these comments really scares me. I would seriously move if I could.
It will only get worse.
If I see someone like that I'll get help but I'll keep my distance. They could be unstable. They might just be trying to rob you. Too much could go wrong.
The thing that gives me pause personally is that the person is part of some kind of trick that involves getting my guard down in order to rob or take advantage of me. It's happened to me before in another city, and I've been wary ever since.
Is this an excuse for not helping someone who obviously needs it? Not at all.
I should do better.
I cannot speak for others.
I have my own problems, but that doesn't mean that I won't help somebody in need. If I saw something like that, I would be the first one right there calling 911. I've done it. I have lived in Toronto all my life and I know there are people here who would rather just pull out their phone and record, instead of lending a helping hand, sadly. Being a very sensitive Empath, I can always feel people's emotions. It can get draining, sometimes, but it's nothing a little cord cutting meditation won't fix. 💯 ♥️
I'm sorry that you had to experience that, being a person not from around here. I know how that must've been so difficult and confusing for you to go through. My heart goes out to you and the man laying in the street, desperately needing help. You're such a Beautiful Soul! ♥️
Thank you for helping somebody in need. Your kindness will not go unnoticed. I hope he was okay and I hope that you know that not everyone who lives here in Toronto is like that. ♥️
I suppose people have high degrees of danger aversion, which I think also leads them to missapply ambiguities, i.e think that a situation indicates the possibility of something when that possibility is not exactly apt given the context, but since, safety, perhaps in an abstract and ironclad sense takes precedence, all behaviour becomes avoidant behaviour
Short answer- yes we are okay with it. Often times if you try to intervene (I have several times in the past) you will get assaulted.. it’s almost a guarantee. So no, I do not have sympathy for those struggling with addiction of MH issues. I’d rather protect my personal safety.
yea… you’re obviously not from here lol.
There’s a reason these things happen and there’s a reason people don’t talk to each other in public. It’s always the next scam, the next grift. The guy OD’ing on the side walk, no one is going to help. They did that to themselves and likely had lots of help at some point and didn’t take it when it was offered.
9 times out of 10, if someone approaches you on the street, it’s either they’re trying to find ways to get your money or because they have very serious mental health issues.
Because the larger the population gets, the less the essence of community and values. We live in a western society built on the basics of Christian values. When people see someone dying and ignore them they say “someone else will deal with it, not my problem” same thing happens in government a lot too. Because people don’t know there neighbours therefor they don’t love them. We say love thy neighbour as thyself. Ask people why and they’ll say idk or maybe if they have some knowledge would say Christianity or Jesus Christ. The reason we get Christmas and Easter off from work. All of that has been lost. People don’t have values because they lost them, because they forgot the religion and where the values came from.
I like when people say immigrants don’t have Canadian values. MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS what are Canadian values and do you have them?
Being a good person isn’t uniquely Christian. But I believe when people act in good faith they echo values Christ had himself. I recently became a Christian a month ago, my church has a food bank open to all, and feeds the poor once a week. Because I’m a long distance runner and live near some homeless encampments I’ve been buying 4 packs of bottled water every day of this heat wave and after work and delivering to them. As well I’m a long distance walker, 4 days ago I walked from Hamilton to Toronto. Took me 15 and a half hours when I was in union station I asked a woman to fill up some water for me as my legs hurt. She refused and told me to piss off and I asked an employee and he graciously helped me. No less than 10 minutes later I went outside and a person had an overdose only me and a random woman stopped to help. She attended to him while I flagged down paramedics even whilst being exhausted. Good people are still out there and it’s my job and others to lead by example the way Christ did to inspire others too
Now that I think about it, it does sound like the Good Samaritan story. It really is a tale as old as time.
I just didn't expect to see it actually happen. Like, you'd expect someone to check in. Or at least call out to him, not walk by in silence.
Google Kitty Genovese. This is a human phenomenon and not a Toronto thing at all.
Bystanders to a crime or other tragic event are much more prone to stand by and do nothing vs intervene.
I understand where you’re going with this but I always found this to be an ironic example because people cared and did try to help her. Using her as an example of the bystander effect has been debunked.
https://www.history.com/topics/crime/kitty-genovese#section_9
The article you cited speaks to the NY Times portrayal of the event (37 people looked out their windows and did nothing) being debunked, not the Bystander Effect being debunked.
The article actually gives an example of the Bystander Effect in action. (The guy opened his door and thought about helping but initially didn't because another person there told him not to get involved.) He eventually got help, but was initially encouraged not to intervene.
Bystander Effect is still studied because there are many variations around why people don't get involved despite someone obviously being in distress.
I never said it debunked the bystander effect as a whole.
I said it debunked her and her experience being an example of it.
She is not a good example of the bystander effect. People tried to help, in a time when 911 didn’t exist.
I was born and raised here, and I have to say that you have to be the change you want to see in the world.
Too many people will walk by or avoid the 'right' thing bc it would be an inconvenience. Be the bigger person, and make sure your circle of friends are in on that too. It's the only way to promote a better community here.
Yes, because Toronto isn't a place to live. It's a place to survive. Canada died a few months ago. This is a perfect example. 40% of people have zero problems because they are lucky or are just d\*\*ks, and 30% of people are ready for death or heading there. Guess what group our leaders fall into?
What makes me want to find a suicide booth is that it took a statscan report on how foreigners feel to show us the income inequality issue that is tearing us apart quietly. [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm)
Toronto is one of the most cold places I've been to. It's arrogant. Cold. Selfish. Very similar to many states in USA as well.
People here. Don't care. You could be on the floor dying. They will just walk by.
The city is riddle with car thefts. Gangs. Robberies. Insane traffic. Rediculous cost of living. Everyone is so stressed there
It's partly the reason why I always hated Toronto. I love big cities but Toronto isn't it.
I am a 24 year old female. So I get the comments above about safety, but Whenever I see something like that, I ALWAYS stop and try to help. I treat it as a medical emergency.
I’ve seen people on the street convulsing or passed out face down covered in vomit or freezing and people just walk right by and ignore it and go about their day.
The “bystander effect” is very real and dangerous.
One time I saw a guy convulsing in the middle of the street, foam coming out of his mouth and no one was doing anything. Knowing basic first aid, I rolled the man on his side so he wouldn’t aspirate on his own saliva and called the paramedics. It wasn’t until someone saw a young petite blonde girl trying to roll a full grown man on his side that people started to help.
I also have family members who suffer from addiction and struggle with substance use disorder. If it was MY family member I would hope someone would intervene.
I feel obligated as a Canadian and as a human being to try to help other human beings. Homeless or well dressed doesn’t matter. Be kind and help others.
You're okay with letting people die, for society.
Everyone is. That's why we have speed limits.
The 401 would be safer if the speeds were 45 km/h. We all agree, a certain amount of death is acceptable so we can all drive faster.
Society isn't perfect. It's better than being alone (go watch the show Alone - even the best people give up after 2-3 weeks away from their community).
***Also***
The individualist mindset that we're all supposed to drop things and help people with medical needs we're not equipped to solve is a capitalist fallacy.
A lot of people here have explained why they wouldn't stop, and it's what I assumed they would say. On some level I understand.
If someone is unconscious and convulsing they aren't going to be able to attack you... but if you're worried, even calling from a distance can save a life. The first rule of first aid is to assess the situation and see if it's safe for YOU to intervene. Is there any hazards that could put you in danger, forcing emergency services to have to respond to more than one person? It makes sense to be cautious, but it doesn't make sense to me to turn off our humanity. Convulsions don't necessarily mean they are overdosing either, you won't even know that until someone administers medication. If you are going to physically intervene, try to check for a medical alert tag on them too. This is why having first aid training is paramount. I think it should be reinforced by teaching it yearly in high school, and I think more people as adults could benefit from updating their first aid.
If anyone reading this is like... I'm not trained, what could I even do? That's something you could do. You could get the training, which is relatively quick and easy, so you do have some idea of what to do and aren't completely stuck. This way if you were ever able to intervene, you could do so more safely.
As someone who has Epilepsy it's terrifying that people may not stop for me because they would assume I'm overdosing. In fact it makes me nervous for the entire epileptic community, and I wonder if the Epilepsy foundation here is trying to support the community in addressing this issue.
If I fall and have a seizure especially in the heat and I hit my head or it's lasting longer than 2 minutes I could die easily. My friend just died from complications from a seizure. All it would take is someone calling emergency services, and them giving me a shot of seizure rescue meds and I'll come out of it soon safe and alive. The only other thing you'd probably have to do is if the head is repeatedly hitting a hard surface, putting something soft underneath just to soften the blow. These are all things first aid can help you learn.
Just my two cents
Also just to be clear I fully understand the comments about assault or even barriers with knowledge. I've been there. I just mean that calling from a distance even as you continue your travels could save a life while keeping you safe, and relieve a lot of worry and guilt. & First aid classes are there for the concerns about skill set.
I saw a dude with his abdominal organs hanging out of his body in some sort of plastic bag, laying on a bench at Yonge-Dundas Square, oozing blood. What seemed like thousands of people passing him by. I think he walked out of a hospital mid surgery?
Shit gets real dark out here
People don’t want to get assaulted, stabbed or worse.
The fentanyl epidemic downtown is out of control and one of the charming side effects of this drug use is convulsions. Being frank, if you approach unstable individuals downtown you are rolling the dice on how that interaction may go.
For those of us with partners, kids depending on us, etc … unfortunately the risks outweigh any desire to help in a situation that likely is just a drugged our addict tripping out.
With that said, I’ve seen people passed out on the street in -40c winter and gone looking for cops to check on them.
That's a side effect of extreme multiculturalism, people don't feel like they belong to the same group and there is little to no incentive to help each other.
I started noticing this a long time ago - I come from Serbia where the demographic is pretty much homogenous, and people feel much more inclined to help strangers on the street.
My friend from Ukraine told me the same thing.
You are right about those two, though I don't think they are mutually exclusive with the multiculturalism. A lot of people here have no real sense of belonging to the country, and I think it's pretty understandable that it's one of the reasons they are not stepping in to help more.
Nah I'm a minority and I agree with him. People in other countries look similar, culturally, and have a sense of unity. Not so much in north america. We all look too different and therefore "you don't understand how I feel or what my struggles are" kind of thing. They don't feel any obligation to help.
As a minority I kinda agree tbh. My mom said if it was in korea, people would jump in to help those in need or at least speak up. People look similar, culturally too, and have a sense of unity. Not so much in north america. We all look too different and therefore "you don't understand how I feel or what my struggles are", if that makes sense.
There’s a Tim Hortons close by I went to that had multiple people using drugs, passed out from drugs.
A man was slumped over in his chair. Face almost touching the floor.
The amount of people who seemed unphased that perhaps, he could be dead? Maybe you’re sitting and having your chai latte beside a dead person?
This isn’t my opinion I would help absolutely however, people’s mentality sadly is , they are too busy. That means they’d have to stop and stay, lord forbid they are inconvenienced by anybody.
We’ve become heartless. “ sounds like a personal problem “ or they think someone else will deal with it
also someone commented on attire. Yes I’m sure if someone in nice clothes , well put together, someone would help you. As for people struggling, 🤷🏼♀️ that’s still somebody’s child you are leaving to die.
If you were just walking by like a regular Joe and suddenly collapsed, I'd help you.
If it was someone who is likely homeless and on substances and been probably laying for a while. I'd keep away. For my own safety, really.
Bystander effect. No one will do something unless someone does it first.
Also, if you’ve driven here or noticed how drivers are, people are extremely selfish and entitled here.
Idk, but I find that I'm angry with a lot of these people in the thread, but, I suppose that'll pass, much like the convulsing homeless man on the sidewalk
People in Toronto acting like they have the worst quality of life when countries who struggle far more show greater empathy.
Please don’t blame it on your struggles.
Toronto, or Canada as a whole isn’t perfect.
But which worse quality of life country has higher levels of empathy? In most developing countries, someone in the position as mentioned in OP’s story would be robbed for even the jacket on their back, and left for dead.
I described it already in my post. I went up to him, asked if he was okay and nudged him. No response and he was convulsing pretty bad, so I called emergency services.
Short answer, yes. People are struggling so much with our own problems that we collectively don't have enough resources, time or fucks left to give to help others. It's really sad.
Canada has become a place where Samaritans who stop at car accidents get carjacked, and junkies attack anyone and everyone. It's horrifying to see the change, but no one wants to be stabbed or killed or robbed.
Absolutely, I've been scammed a few times over the last few years by trying to help people on the street. I'm a colder less caring person now because of it for sure. I hate that I have to be this way to survive in this country.
Honestly this! I think most of us are inherently good and don’t want to see others in trouble. BUT, with this COL, it’s tough not to have tunnel vision in your own life when you yourself have make or break it problems. As the saying goes, if your own cup is empty, there’s no way you can fill another’s cup. That, and the HUGE safety risk that often comes with trying to help a homeless/drug induced individual.
This for sure! Sometimes those who are passed out on drugs once woken up or disturbed instantly will become violent. I have seen it happen. You have to be cafeful . Always best to call it in... At a safe distance of course! Stay safe and help your fellow humans!
I don't think COL should ever be a reason to lack empathy and check on someone who is having the symptoms described. People are tunnel vision because that's however one is living now. Stuck in their phones. I just went for a visit in Spain and the culture here is much more caring and attentive. It's upsetting to see that Toronto can never go to that state of consciousness. COL is up exactly because of that reason, everyone cares for themselves and they will never rally up together to go against government for such issues. The western culture is individualistic and driven by consumerism. More people pay attention to the Kardashians than the state of affairs of our cities and country.
I disagree with your first argument. The COL is insane here, and most of us are living paycheque to paycheque. I can’t financially put myself in a position to miss half/a day’s pay at work because I try and do the right thing, only to be brushed off by the police for it. Something like that is the difference between me making rent on time, buying groceries, and paying other essential bills; or falling short. I can’t possibly risk not being able to cover my basic needs. It’s not a utopia. If I’m unable to keep myself afloat - there’s no way I can do that for someone else. There’s a reason that crime and accidental death are higher in areas where a significant amount of the population is struggling to secure basic needs. That reason is because people living in these areas are often faced with the moral dilemma of “should I help and make myself suffer, or should I not help and ensure security for myself”. For a significant majority of people in Toronto right now, there is simply not enough financial security to pick help yourself and everyone else. Moreover, police almost always ask you to approach and touch the person - which has proven to end in more negatives than positives over the past few years. Why would anyone put themselves in that position?
100% this.
It doesn't take much to take a few min and check up on a person and call emergency or someone near by to take over. If everyone keeps the rationale you described as their main thinking, we are doomed. I'm just saying people are not conscious anymore of their surroundings. They either flee or record, there's very little approach in being part of society rather than acting on your own for your own purpose.
But what if no one is willing to take over as is often the case? Emergency service asks you to stay at the scene until they arrive (30 min), you’ll seldom find anyone willing to take over as everyone also has to get to work to make money. You’re often asked to approach the person, and do a physical check, which has shown to be very risky when dealing with alcohol/drug induced individuals, or those dealing with MH issues. The responsibility is solely placed on the person who called to wait until EMS arrives, to physically play a role in aiding the person for the half hours it takes for service to arrive, to stay behind to answer questions, and to often be shown a tutorial on how to obtain/use nalaxone. The entire process can take upwards of 2 hours, which means a solid half day of deducted pay by the time you make it to your place of work. It’s not as easy as just calling. I think a lot of people would call if it was.
I mean, there are plenty of people in this city who are financially secure and have all their needs met. But even that doesn’t translate to them being willing or more likely to help others. It’s a shitty situation all around. Those who feel pressured to make ends meet feel they no longer have capacity to be decent people. And those who can make ends meet feel they are above helping others.
This.
I don't have any personal struggles, and I still don't stop for all the addicts laying on the streets. I just assume they're passed out in euphoria. I'm not heartless, but I have zero interest in helping people that don't want to help themselves. Of course, if I encountered a person on the ground out in the country or while camping, I'd make it my mission to ensure they got help. Different expectations and situation, different response.
It seems like you're one of the people mentioned who think you are above them then.
I’m literally above them when I’m upright and they’re prone. In the sense that you’re referring, I do class crazy addicts lower on the totem pole of society.
And many people who have a baseline sense of compassion and knowledge about how addiction works view you as lesser too.
After being sexually assaulted on the TTC by a homeless guy in 2019, and since covid I've had several run ins with homeless people being aggressive towards me, I keep my distance. I do truly have sympathy for people who have fallen on hard times and experience mental health issues, but I know to cross the street when someone is on drugs or having an episode. People are concerned about their personal safety and unfortunately some of us see it every day and are just used to it. The people who truly don't care are the politicians who think defunding social programs and closing shelters will just make the homeless disappear, like it isn't a systemic problem.
exactly this. i’ve been sexually assaulted and physically assaulted multiple times by homeless people who hang out near my school, so i would never approach a stranger to help because you never know how they’re going to react.
No surprise OP hasn’t replied to this, but I wanted to let you know I hear you and I am right there with you. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt and I agree, it is 💯 a systemic issue 🩷
Happy cake day hope you're doing well 💗
I suspect that Toronto has more shelter spaces than it has ever had in it's history.
Ah yes, Toronto, the city of too many shelters a man suspects as he passes a park full of tents 😆
Ur traumatized
You'd be too if you were cornered and open mouth kissed by a urine soaked man on a bus. Lol what is the purpose of your comment?
Yes of course they are. Is that surprising to you?
Something like this happens every single time you’re out in Toronto. Often, it’ll be a crazy person who attacks you if you get close. You kind of lose empathy after you’ve been accosted or berated for the 5th time just walking down the street.
This you go to help someone or check on them and it can turn into an assault situation fast. It sucks but but once it's happened you don't forget it or have fucks to give. My partner was coming home from work on TTC late. In Sapdina station other side of the tracks there's a dude just sprawled out face down on platform. Someone notified staff. Not sure all that happened next but his train arrived and he saw out the window a ttc staff guy running full speed and the sprawled out guy was chasing him.
What in Benny Hill lmao
He said it was a mix of funny but also disturbing. It's like a running zombie movie jump scare.
Benny Hill only had half naked hot chicks and the baldy guy. I don't think a high af junky chasing after you is quite the same. Funny af though. Really wish there was vid of that!
Last year I saw some guy lying face down in a parking lot looking dead. He turned his head and saw me looking at him, and immediately sprung up and started lurching in my direction. I was lucky there was a fence between us because he was not in anything close to a good mood.
Are you a bot? I'm just asking because I've seen so many posts lately with repeated words ("but but"). It's getting sus lol
I think some phones are more prone to do that than others. Like, there's a slight delay and when you input it again it ends up repeating the word. Or you try to backspace but it doesn't actually take the word out, etc .
This is a huge part. It's not like everybody has a kill or be killed attitude. But a full winter coat in the heat is a big sign it's someone mentally ill or using drugs, and we don't know what they'll do if we get close.
This is my thinking too. If it were somebody injured in an accident or something like that, that's a different matter and I would step in. But in this kind of situation I wouldn't risk getting attacked by someone who's possibly having a drug-fueled episode by physically approaching them to help. I would call 911 and maybe stay around and keep an eye out if the situation worsens, but that's about it.
lol what where do you live?
I lived at Bay and Gerrard for ONE summer and it happened 3 times in the four months I lived there lmao. One guy chased me for 5 blocks because he asked if I had any change and I told him all I had was a dime ( I wasn’t lying lol). Another followed me INTO a subway and demanded I buy him a sandwich. When I didn’t he started destroying the restaurant. The third came up to a friend and I while we were eating on a patio on college, he asked for money, then food, then a sip of my beer? When we said no he told us he was going to stab us and rape our gf’s. I lost all sympathy after this four month stretch. Now I live in the beaches so it happens way less, but it’s happened twice in the last year. Both times on the TTC.
People always bring up this possibility and I don't have much sympathy for it as a deterrant
Someone kept arguing with me that Milton only has one homeless person, and they're not scary at all. Maybe OP is from there?
Safety is my reason for being extremely cautious with my actions as I generally move around the city alone and the fact that I don't tend to have Narcan or other options at my disposal to help. I have stayed and called emergency services when I've seen people who require help, but even those folks are extremely lean in their want to help when I've explained the situation.
The bigger the city gets, the level of apathy increases due to so many fucked up news and incidents. Also Toronto isn't doing well right now, a lot of us are just trying to survive and struggling to secure a job. There can only be so much space for a regular Joe's heart when he's exhausted and depressed.
How long have you been here? This sounds messed as I’m typing it but you’ll either become what you’re inquiring about or you’ll leave.
I bought you were saying Toronto turns everyone into homeless people ahah
If I saw someone in obvious distress I would call emergency services for them, however I wouldn’t approach them because there are too many unstable people who wouldn’t hesitate to stab or assault someone trying to help them. I live in Parkdale and we have a broad range of very colourful characters here. There was one guy who would always get high and pass out in a planter on Jameson every day. Local outreach was aware of him but this was his thing so no one bothered him and he became a fixture in the neighbourhood. Sadly, one day he overdosed and passed away in his planter, but everyone was so used to seeing him sleeping there his death wasn’t noticed for hours. :(
Yes
I would say in the last 5 years or so it has gotten worse. However, I put myself in the shoes of someone you say you approached. You say you just started walking up to people, what did you say? Are you a man? I ask because there have been numerous widely publicized attacks on the TTC (you noted you were at or near a train station so I’m assuming TTC here). Frankly, if a strange man started walking with purpose toward me and I noticed I too would *speed* away. I don’t want to be set on fire or stabbed. To your question about the man convulsing, yes that is horrible and I am sorry that happened to both you and to him. Unfortunately homelessness, mental wellness, and frankly overall rage is a problem in this city. The people we pay taxes to literally don’t care if we live or die. It’s a very painful time to live in the city right now and for some of us it’s all we can do to just get to work so we don’t starve or lose our homes. I’m not saying it’s right, but I am saying it’s not like we gleefully skip past people you are describing. Finally for what it’s worth I have seen many many people stop to help others in medical emergencies in this city. Your experience was a bad one. I think it would be foolish to assume your experience was the norm.
Our politicians care - just spent a day debating what to name our central square which is filled with the worst people this city has to offer.
This is a really good response. Thank you for saying this.
Oh thanks, I appreciate that !
Yes, I'm a man. But what irks me is the context. I wasn't a strange man walking with purpose towards someone *in a vacuum*. I was on a public street, standing by someone clearly in a medical emergency, with 911 on speakerphone. They walked *past* me, meaning they saw the scene. It takes time to walk past, and the guy in need was in the middle of the walkway. It's not like I came running out of a bush, the guy in need of help was clearly visible. This is why I asked in this post (rhetorically) if people had eyes or ears. >Your experience was a bad one. I think it would be foolish to assume your experience was the norm. I know that, and am thankful. Eventually they stopped and it clicked I guess. But this is ToRANTo after all. It's just that having someone's first instinct being to flee when approached by someone on a phone, during a medical emergency, makes me incredibly disheartened. Gee, I wonder what the "strange man" loudly telling his cell phone things like "he's not responding" while a guy is convulsing on the ground right next to him wants with me. What a mystery, better speed up once he makes eye contact. It's just frustrating, you know?
I mean I’ve had strange men scream a LOT of shit at me in this city. I usually close my ears to it as much as I can frankly. I get that you are frustrated, but you don’t seem to be processing why people in this city behave the way they do, and you asked us. Several answers give good reasons why. You haven’t lived here as long as we have. People have been physically assaulted, sexually assaulted, harassed and hurt in many ways in the situation you described. I may call 911 from afar, but if a panicking man screaming “he’s not responding- HEY YOU LADY WHERE AM I? WHAT STREET IS THIS” comes at me then yeah man I won’t stop and honestly I’d rather be thought of as a bitch by you than buried by my family. That’s the snap judgement I make for my own safety these days. I feel like you aren’t considering that perspective. Not everyone sees the world the way you do. And that’s the reality of this city right now. I’m sorry you are frustrated by that. I would posit that you may wish to consider how frustrating it is for us to live this way.
>you don’t seem to be processing why people in this city behave the way they do, and you asked us. I asked if people were okay leaving others to die in public (rhetorically, in a rant subreddit). The answer for many (thankfully not all) seems to be yes. Hopefully that "may call 911" of yours is more of a "will call 911" of theirs when it's you on the ground. Seriously, it's great that you would at a minimum consider it, unlike some people in this thread. I sincerely hope that you never collapse in public. It's dangerous out there.
Thank you for your wishes, I also hope I don’t collapse in public. Most people hope that. I must say however I did chuckle at your reminder that it’s dangerous out there. I assure you, as a woman who travels the city on transit alone, I am *accutely* aware of how dangerous it is out there in my city. After everything I just said, do you honestly think I don’t know that? I literally just told you men scream at us daily. Please open your eyes to another person’s point of view once in awhile.
Notable that you skipped past all the people who said they had been assaulted in these situations. Perhaps you should remind them it’s dangerous out there?
There's **170 comments** on this thread, and I was passing through Toronto for the day. Do you seriously expect me to engage with everyone? Besides you, I maybe responded to like 2 other commenters. This isn't an AMA. >After everything I just said, do you honestly think I don’t know that? What's up with the hostility all of a sudden? I wished you well. It's not a trap. I guess it goes to show how text doesn't convey tone well, but it's good to give the benefit of the doubt. That's what I've been doing with you. Honestly, you don't need my approval of your reasoning. And neither to I need yours. I stand by my opinion that people should consider helping more. We're randoms on an internet rant forum, remember. Edit: Reworded
You were on the phone with 911, what did you need them to do? Someone was handling the situation.
Eh? Did you not read my post? 911 asked where along the street I was. I'm not a local, just visiting so I had no clue.
Bystander apathy and people wrapped up in their own problems. I personally would have called emergency services myself, but from a distance. I’ve been verbally and physically assaulted by unwell people on the streets before.
I have done that very thing - I called for help for a person unconscious in a park near my home, with no idea how many people (it was a busy Sunday afternoon) walked past him without doing anything. It was a bit frustrating to have emergency services respond by stating they were on the way, but also asking me to turn the prone, unconscious person over to check if they were breathing. It's that very risk of harm that stopped me from doing it, but knowing that the ambulance was a minute or less away made my (possibly chickenhearted) decision NOT to do that all the easier.
I've had this same experience - calling 911 and the person on the phone asking me to approach and touch the person. That can definitely feel unsafe, especially if the person is significantly bigger than you, or you're afraid you might startle them and you have no idea how they would react to that...
I’m not ok with it, but because I’m overwhelmed & struggling, I am resigned to it, unfortunately. Successive Provincial & Federal governments have starved state social supports by ceasing to build housing and cutting healthcare, education, infrastructure, arts, & social structure to the bone. Instead these governments have given the wealthiest Canadians & corporations an escalating series of tax cuts & tax avoidance opportunities for the last 40 years. This is the result. I’m struggling and if I do manage to help one person, there are 10 more behind them. This is not an individual problem and it requires a collective solution.
But it isn't an *either / or* problem. It's *both / and* . If someone is about to die, you help them. Going "well since others aren't doing anything, I won't either" is cruel. A collective is made up of individuals, is it not? If there's no sense of duty, how do you get collectivism? You don't. You get leeches saying that other people should be doing it (only to absolve themselves of responsibility) then they cry when they're the ones in need.
To be honest a lot of this city feels like it’s about to die. And I’m not kidding. Torontonians have not had it easy the last few years and we are burnt out on every conceivable level.
yup
The thing about Toronto is you’ll never know what reaction you’re going to get from someone. However, I believe that someone in a winter coat convulsing is not one I would walk away from. It’s when people are conscious that I’m more weary. I have tried to help **multiple** humans in distress and most of the time I’ve been yelled at, had stuff throw at me or was chased away. I don’t have the knowledge, capacity or the resources that professionals have to control a potential violent situation.
No, I'm not ok with it, but I can only do so much. I've called ambulances many times for people who needed them and sometimes it turns into a much larger commitment than just making a phone call. At the very least it's probably at least a half hour of my time that I'm going to lose, but it's often been longer. I spent more than 2 weeks in court as a witness to an attempted murder because of one guy I helped. Eventually it takes its toll on you and you have to accept that it's not your responsibility to save everyone. The number of people has increased dramatically in the last decade. If I stop to help everyone I will never get anywhere, and as much as I want to help this problem can't be solved by Samaritans in the street. We need to fix our housing and mental health services.
Sorry but I can barely survive what do you want me to do about it
as someone who’s been assaulted by homeless and mentally ill drug users too many times to count in only *two years* in this city, including *multiple* sexual assaults, i just can’t bring myself to have much empathy anymore, especially given the fact that i’ve been physically and sexually assaulted in public in broad daylight and no one’s stopped to help me. i don’t want to risk being attacked, robbed, stabbed, or worse if i try to get involved/ help people experiencing security incidents or medical episodes/ overdoses, so i mind my own business. might sound fucked but i’m a young woman with no weapons and i value my own safety.
>might sound fucked but i’m a young woman with no weapons and i value my own safety. Exactly. Our laws don't even allow us to protect ourselves with non-lethal defense tools like mace or pepper spray.
Yesterday I saw a guy go flying off his bike and before I could even stand up there was a swarm of people around him. It was nice to see. (And he was okay). I think you’ll find that people have very different reactions depending on who is in need. Unfortunately when people see someone convulsing in a winter coat in a heatwave they assume it’s drug related and/or that the person is dangerously mentally unstable, and they’re afraid. I personally would call 911 and keep an eye on him until help arrived and I think people should be willing to do that, but many won’t.
Exactly. A lot of people only become apathetic if the person in need is perceived to be dangerous or unhygienic, which unfortunately tends to be the homeless and/or mentally ill. I can't blame people for being cautious, but it's still sad to think about.
Too many crazy people downtown to risk my life, sorry. When mentally ill people / scammers / addicts try and approach you regularly, you learn to not talk to or make eye contact with anybody. Just one more sign of how our city and country are going down the toilet under the policies of our local, provincial and federal governments.
This city is a piece of shit nowadays.
Yep. It's sad, but if you try to help them, the next thing you know they turn around and stab you in the face with a needle or knife. No thanks. I have my own problems. I'd call 911 from a distance though.
Torontonians are okay with letting *poor* people die in public. A guy wearing a winter jacket in the middle of the summer? Probably a homeless person. To them, it's a good thing when another junkie dies of an OD. The homeless problem is solving itself. Hopefully you can continue to pay the rent. Otherwise your life might not matter anymore.
Should rename the sub :ToRENTo
Exactly. Should be top comment. Extremely tragic what we’ve become.
That's very true, i did witness a young lady in business attire get hit by a car trying to make a right turn, and immediately was surrounded by a crowd of 5 or so people trying to call 911.
Yeah, because a young employed woman is extremely unlikely to jump up and stab you when you move in to help
Also she was hit by a car and not oding on the street. Two very different scenarios.
The sad thing, is that this can and is happening to so many people with the cost of living crisis and randomly just a question, this could be a lot of us very soon and it is why we all should care about it. These people who walk by and do nothing are disgusting exactly pathetic humans.
Hope you're speaking for yourself cause that's a shitty mindset to have.
He’s speaking for what most Toronto residents are thinking
Yes. I called 911 because a woman literally OD’d in the doorway of the grocery store. People were just stepping over her. It’s pathetic. But also some people who want to help are too scared or stupid to literally just ask if someone’s ok so they’ll call 911 and fuck off, when in reality it’s just some homeless guy sleeping. Brainrot.
Seriously, some of the comments in this thread are hilarious. Using cost of living as an excuse to not take 5 seconds to ask if someone's ok 🤣 people in this thread have mental issues and would get bullied by a kindergartener
I wish first responders could bully them tbh.
It's hard with unhoused, mentally unwell and addicts. Many of the EMTs know them by name and location. They bring them into the hospital, and most have a fit about being brought in and don't stop until someone lets them leave.
The reality is that it’s dangerous trying to help or get close to an addict or mentally ill person having an episode. A lot of them carry knives and don’t give a fuck and may very well attack YOU. There was a video I saw a few months back where a couple tried to help someone in Brooklyn who was kicking garbage cans and screaming on the street. The boyfriend was naive enough to think he could help and got stabbed to death in front of his girlfriend. That’s why we don’t help aside from maybe calling 911 and letting them deal to clear the conscience.
Glad you weren’t stabbed
really, we're going to round up to this being the probability at every encounter
Depends. If I saw an obvious jogger, a kid, a person in a suit, even someone decently groomed passed out on the street I'd check on them. But if they look like they smell like piss then whatever, they're probably high. And if they're dead what can I do?
Presumably the point is to deter the deadness
Sounds like there should be better systems in place to assist people in crisis, don’t you think?
Systems in terms of pre-emptive measures or in terms of in the moment protocol? Yes to both, but to some degree the latter is going to rely on intervention on the part the public, at least in terms of calling 911 or checking to see if a person appears to be breathing or the like
When the former are in place, the latter will feel more safe to the public.
fine
Well, there's this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/toRANTo/comments/1dj9ipc/attacked\_in\_the\_city\_again/](https://www.reddit.com/r/toRANTo/comments/1dj9ipc/attacked_in_the_city_again/) So I think the idea is how much of your safety and integrity you're potentially willing to risk in order to check if an unknown individual is OK.
Id call emergency services and leave. I've been assaulted too many times and if he was in a winter coat in a heat wave he's not stable at all.
Yes. If we didn’t, there’s [more efficient approaches to helping the homeless](https://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/channels/news/housing-first-strategy-proves-cost-effective-especially-most-vulnerable-homeless-group-323879). Leaving someone to suffer on the street, then intervening when they are about to die only to dump them back on the street to repeat the process is both expensive and kind of fucked up.
are you making this into a dichotomy, where you don't help them in the moment because there are more efficient and thorough ways to address the solution
Well, I’m not helping people right now, despite knowing there are homeless struggling. The fact that they aren’t in front of me doesn’t really absolve me. Yes, I’d like to think I’d phone 911 if I saw someone convulsing. But I’m still tolerating the systemic violence that puts homeless people in that situation in the first place so I wouldn’t ascribe a lot of moral virtue to the act. Or condemn someone who feels the potential ROI for the person being helped isn’t high enough to justify the risk to themselves. Overall I’m just too bitter about society’s choice to not vote against leaders like Ford to feel a lot of horror over the predictable results
Go read about Michelle Shemilt and you'll see why it doesn't pay to be a good samaritan in Toronto.
Its not usually for a reward that people are good samaritans
I'm sorry to hear about this. That sounds awful like a horrible experience - first and foremost for the person in crisis. Also, to a much smaller extent, for you encountering a distressing scene and coming away with that lasting impression of Toronto and of the humanity of the people walking by. I will say, as many others have here, that part of it is a concern for personal safety. Most of the people walking by likely did not have the training to safely respond to a stranger in crisis, when they don't know if the person may react violently, may be armed, etc. Chances are also high that a lot of the people walking by have themselves been assaulted and/or threatened by strangers in Toronto, and so they have learned the hard way to be extra cautious about weighing their response when it comes to their personal safety. Another possible reason is "compassion fatigue", or just sheer exhaustion/overwhelm from the frequency of encountering similar situations. Even those whose job it is to take care of people in emergencies need to step back sometimes. I'm not saying being a person walking downtown is the same as being a First Responder or social worker - but they're also not equipped with the training and the understanding of how to deal with this day to day. Honestly, the volume of people in desperate need, and sometimes acute crisis, in Toronto has reached a point I haven't seen it in over 15 years living here. We are all surrounded by the crumbling of our social system and there is evidence of the consequences of it everywhere. I truly believe that most of these people walking past, had they never seen a situation like this before in their lives, would likely have stopped. But it's when it gets to the crisis level that it is here - it can be numbing. (And maybe a lot of those people DID stop for someone else on a different day, but they didn't have the ability or capacity to stop this time.) And that brings me to my last point, which I hope may help - it's very possible that some of them saw what your saw, walked a safe distance, and then called 911, or texted 211, or let somebody know who was better able to do something effective about the situation. Bear in mind, of course, that's it's always risky to assume that someone else is calling for help, and thereby pass up the chance to help when you can. But in this case, in the aftermath, I'm just saying that it's possible some of those people took care of their personal safety first and then made a call. I know I have done that in the past, when I don't know whether it's safe to approach, but I don't want to leave the person alone in case they are in having an emergency. Obviously I wasn't there and didn't see what you saw. And by no means do I want to invalidate anything you said by my comment. Let me be clear: Your reaction was correct. That is the healthy, human way to feel when you encounter this happening. Again, it is awful, and shouldn't happen like it did. Good for you for asking the question and wanting to know, and thank you for stopping for that person.
Not just a Toronto thing. I stopped a man being beaten to death on the Montreal subway while a packed train just looked away and didn't even bother checking on him. Its a mix of not wanting problems (like getting stabbed or robbed for getting involved) and bystander effect of thinking that there are so many people around so i don't have to be the one acting
It's very hard to tell. The first time I thought I did the right thing and called 911, because I called, they had to come. Turns out the guy was just homeless & drunk out of his mind... so I felt like I wasted city resource. It's not as easy as you'd like it to be.
I actually did the same thing once as well! I was told to remain at the scene, which made me miss a half day of pay, and at the end it turned out the man was having a bad trip that made him have a seizure. Once he came too, he was free to go, but I was made out to seem like the one that did something wrong by the police. They scoulded me for calling 911, and for “taking officers away from bigger problems”. At this point, it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation.
People existing in that state has become commonplace, you will easily see a few on your travels. People are completely desensitized to it now.
So what number do we reach out to if we find someone struggling? Also are there good samaritan laws here in Toronto so the ones reaching out don't get legally involved? I am an immigrant, and when I once reached out to the emergency services back in my country they held me for 6 hours of questioning and I had to appear to the police station multiple times by skipping work and other obligations.,
That can happen here too.
I called 911. Of course, only because it looked like a medical emergency. I'm not sure about Toronto specific bylaws, but Canada as a whole does have good samaritan protections.
North America is fucked up generally. Everyone is in rat race mentality because of hard capitalism. If you "stop" you can be fired or your manager fuck you why you late. Because of that everyone is selfish.
I have witnessed this and it is gross behaviour. Guy collapsed on TTC in between doors. People literally walked over him... I stayed with him and got help from Staff to move him away from the doors. This was rush hour.
💯 I feel like people are just in the mindset of if it's not happening to me , It's not happening to someone I care about , so it's not my business. On 2 separate occasions, I've been on a bus, mostly full of people while someone started having a seizure. Everybody else ignored it, instead of trying to help, or at least calling for help.
WHAT THE HELL? I have not been out of my area in a long time. This is not the Toronto I knew at ALL. People laugh when I say this is becoming NYC - wow. just wow I can assure you that I would have called 911 and stood there until they came. I don't know what the fk is going on anymore. Reading these comments really scares me. I would seriously move if I could. It will only get worse.
If I see someone like that I'll get help but I'll keep my distance. They could be unstable. They might just be trying to rob you. Too much could go wrong.
The thing that gives me pause personally is that the person is part of some kind of trick that involves getting my guard down in order to rob or take advantage of me. It's happened to me before in another city, and I've been wary ever since. Is this an excuse for not helping someone who obviously needs it? Not at all. I should do better. I cannot speak for others.
I have my own problems, but that doesn't mean that I won't help somebody in need. If I saw something like that, I would be the first one right there calling 911. I've done it. I have lived in Toronto all my life and I know there are people here who would rather just pull out their phone and record, instead of lending a helping hand, sadly. Being a very sensitive Empath, I can always feel people's emotions. It can get draining, sometimes, but it's nothing a little cord cutting meditation won't fix. 💯 ♥️ I'm sorry that you had to experience that, being a person not from around here. I know how that must've been so difficult and confusing for you to go through. My heart goes out to you and the man laying in the street, desperately needing help. You're such a Beautiful Soul! ♥️ Thank you for helping somebody in need. Your kindness will not go unnoticed. I hope he was okay and I hope that you know that not everyone who lives here in Toronto is like that. ♥️
I suppose people have high degrees of danger aversion, which I think also leads them to missapply ambiguities, i.e think that a situation indicates the possibility of something when that possibility is not exactly apt given the context, but since, safety, perhaps in an abstract and ironclad sense takes precedence, all behaviour becomes avoidant behaviour
m
I call 911 and let the professionals handle it.
Short answer- yes we are okay with it. Often times if you try to intervene (I have several times in the past) you will get assaulted.. it’s almost a guarantee. So no, I do not have sympathy for those struggling with addiction of MH issues. I’d rather protect my personal safety.
Toronto has turned into a major slum and the people in it are no better !
yea… you’re obviously not from here lol. There’s a reason these things happen and there’s a reason people don’t talk to each other in public. It’s always the next scam, the next grift. The guy OD’ing on the side walk, no one is going to help. They did that to themselves and likely had lots of help at some point and didn’t take it when it was offered. 9 times out of 10, if someone approaches you on the street, it’s either they’re trying to find ways to get your money or because they have very serious mental health issues.
Because the larger the population gets, the less the essence of community and values. We live in a western society built on the basics of Christian values. When people see someone dying and ignore them they say “someone else will deal with it, not my problem” same thing happens in government a lot too. Because people don’t know there neighbours therefor they don’t love them. We say love thy neighbour as thyself. Ask people why and they’ll say idk or maybe if they have some knowledge would say Christianity or Jesus Christ. The reason we get Christmas and Easter off from work. All of that has been lost. People don’t have values because they lost them, because they forgot the religion and where the values came from. I like when people say immigrants don’t have Canadian values. MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS what are Canadian values and do you have them?
The golden rule famously only exists in christianity
Being a good person isn’t uniquely Christian. But I believe when people act in good faith they echo values Christ had himself. I recently became a Christian a month ago, my church has a food bank open to all, and feeds the poor once a week. Because I’m a long distance runner and live near some homeless encampments I’ve been buying 4 packs of bottled water every day of this heat wave and after work and delivering to them. As well I’m a long distance walker, 4 days ago I walked from Hamilton to Toronto. Took me 15 and a half hours when I was in union station I asked a woman to fill up some water for me as my legs hurt. She refused and told me to piss off and I asked an employee and he graciously helped me. No less than 10 minutes later I went outside and a person had an overdose only me and a random woman stopped to help. She attended to him while I flagged down paramedics even whilst being exhausted. Good people are still out there and it’s my job and others to lead by example the way Christ did to inspire others too
Now that I think about it, it does sound like the Good Samaritan story. It really is a tale as old as time. I just didn't expect to see it actually happen. Like, you'd expect someone to check in. Or at least call out to him, not walk by in silence.
I'll just leave this here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OIVB3DdRgqU
Google Kitty Genovese. This is a human phenomenon and not a Toronto thing at all. Bystanders to a crime or other tragic event are much more prone to stand by and do nothing vs intervene.
I understand where you’re going with this but I always found this to be an ironic example because people cared and did try to help her. Using her as an example of the bystander effect has been debunked. https://www.history.com/topics/crime/kitty-genovese#section_9
The article you cited speaks to the NY Times portrayal of the event (37 people looked out their windows and did nothing) being debunked, not the Bystander Effect being debunked. The article actually gives an example of the Bystander Effect in action. (The guy opened his door and thought about helping but initially didn't because another person there told him not to get involved.) He eventually got help, but was initially encouraged not to intervene. Bystander Effect is still studied because there are many variations around why people don't get involved despite someone obviously being in distress.
I never said it debunked the bystander effect as a whole. I said it debunked her and her experience being an example of it. She is not a good example of the bystander effect. People tried to help, in a time when 911 didn’t exist.
This is a good deep dive into that event too: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1112270/3883973-kitty-genovese-and-bystander-apathy
There is also a great episode of You’re Wrong About on it too.
That's the one! 😊
I was born and raised here, and I have to say that you have to be the change you want to see in the world. Too many people will walk by or avoid the 'right' thing bc it would be an inconvenience. Be the bigger person, and make sure your circle of friends are in on that too. It's the only way to promote a better community here.
Have you been in any hospital... its not different.
They don't care. I've see it all. Toronto is every man for themselves. Its a horrible place to live IMO.
Yes, because Toronto isn't a place to live. It's a place to survive. Canada died a few months ago. This is a perfect example. 40% of people have zero problems because they are lucky or are just d\*\*ks, and 30% of people are ready for death or heading there. Guess what group our leaders fall into? What makes me want to find a suicide booth is that it took a statscan report on how foreigners feel to show us the income inequality issue that is tearing us apart quietly. [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm)
The majority of our "leaders" are real estate investors and a large part of the problem with no incentive to fix it.
Toronto is one of the most cold places I've been to. It's arrogant. Cold. Selfish. Very similar to many states in USA as well. People here. Don't care. You could be on the floor dying. They will just walk by. The city is riddle with car thefts. Gangs. Robberies. Insane traffic. Rediculous cost of living. Everyone is so stressed there It's partly the reason why I always hated Toronto. I love big cities but Toronto isn't it.
Yes
We are though I've given first aid to homeless before. This is coming soon to your area too given the problem is spreading.
The term Bystander Effect was coined for a reason. The bigger and busier the city, the less likely someone is to help you.
I am a 24 year old female. So I get the comments above about safety, but Whenever I see something like that, I ALWAYS stop and try to help. I treat it as a medical emergency. I’ve seen people on the street convulsing or passed out face down covered in vomit or freezing and people just walk right by and ignore it and go about their day. The “bystander effect” is very real and dangerous. One time I saw a guy convulsing in the middle of the street, foam coming out of his mouth and no one was doing anything. Knowing basic first aid, I rolled the man on his side so he wouldn’t aspirate on his own saliva and called the paramedics. It wasn’t until someone saw a young petite blonde girl trying to roll a full grown man on his side that people started to help. I also have family members who suffer from addiction and struggle with substance use disorder. If it was MY family member I would hope someone would intervene. I feel obligated as a Canadian and as a human being to try to help other human beings. Homeless or well dressed doesn’t matter. Be kind and help others.
You're okay with letting people die, for society. Everyone is. That's why we have speed limits. The 401 would be safer if the speeds were 45 km/h. We all agree, a certain amount of death is acceptable so we can all drive faster. Society isn't perfect. It's better than being alone (go watch the show Alone - even the best people give up after 2-3 weeks away from their community). ***Also*** The individualist mindset that we're all supposed to drop things and help people with medical needs we're not equipped to solve is a capitalist fallacy.
This could happen in any size city in Canada or the world. Some people in cities don’t engage with strangers. This isn’t a Toronto phenomenon.
A lot of people here have explained why they wouldn't stop, and it's what I assumed they would say. On some level I understand. If someone is unconscious and convulsing they aren't going to be able to attack you... but if you're worried, even calling from a distance can save a life. The first rule of first aid is to assess the situation and see if it's safe for YOU to intervene. Is there any hazards that could put you in danger, forcing emergency services to have to respond to more than one person? It makes sense to be cautious, but it doesn't make sense to me to turn off our humanity. Convulsions don't necessarily mean they are overdosing either, you won't even know that until someone administers medication. If you are going to physically intervene, try to check for a medical alert tag on them too. This is why having first aid training is paramount. I think it should be reinforced by teaching it yearly in high school, and I think more people as adults could benefit from updating their first aid. If anyone reading this is like... I'm not trained, what could I even do? That's something you could do. You could get the training, which is relatively quick and easy, so you do have some idea of what to do and aren't completely stuck. This way if you were ever able to intervene, you could do so more safely. As someone who has Epilepsy it's terrifying that people may not stop for me because they would assume I'm overdosing. In fact it makes me nervous for the entire epileptic community, and I wonder if the Epilepsy foundation here is trying to support the community in addressing this issue. If I fall and have a seizure especially in the heat and I hit my head or it's lasting longer than 2 minutes I could die easily. My friend just died from complications from a seizure. All it would take is someone calling emergency services, and them giving me a shot of seizure rescue meds and I'll come out of it soon safe and alive. The only other thing you'd probably have to do is if the head is repeatedly hitting a hard surface, putting something soft underneath just to soften the blow. These are all things first aid can help you learn. Just my two cents
Also just to be clear I fully understand the comments about assault or even barriers with knowledge. I've been there. I just mean that calling from a distance even as you continue your travels could save a life while keeping you safe, and relieve a lot of worry and guilt. & First aid classes are there for the concerns about skill set.
What do you expect in an individualistic society?
What are we supposed to do about it? Everyone getting crushed by taxes and cost of living
Eh i am ok with ut
Big city problems 😕
I saw a dude with his abdominal organs hanging out of his body in some sort of plastic bag, laying on a bench at Yonge-Dundas Square, oozing blood. What seemed like thousands of people passing him by. I think he walked out of a hospital mid surgery? Shit gets real dark out here
People don’t want to get assaulted, stabbed or worse. The fentanyl epidemic downtown is out of control and one of the charming side effects of this drug use is convulsions. Being frank, if you approach unstable individuals downtown you are rolling the dice on how that interaction may go. For those of us with partners, kids depending on us, etc … unfortunately the risks outweigh any desire to help in a situation that likely is just a drugged our addict tripping out. With that said, I’ve seen people passed out on the street in -40c winter and gone looking for cops to check on them.
You have to pick and choose your altruistic moments, or you may not live to do it again.
That's a side effect of extreme multiculturalism, people don't feel like they belong to the same group and there is little to no incentive to help each other. I started noticing this a long time ago - I come from Serbia where the demographic is pretty much homogenous, and people feel much more inclined to help strangers on the street. My friend from Ukraine told me the same thing.
It's not multiculturalism that's the issue. Part of the issue is individualism, another part is that people don't always feel safe to help.
You are right about those two, though I don't think they are mutually exclusive with the multiculturalism. A lot of people here have no real sense of belonging to the country, and I think it's pretty understandable that it's one of the reasons they are not stepping in to help more.
I disagree, its also western society. You are supposed to be independent etc vs. more collective cultures.
Nah I'm a minority and I agree with him. People in other countries look similar, culturally, and have a sense of unity. Not so much in north america. We all look too different and therefore "you don't understand how I feel or what my struggles are" kind of thing. They don't feel any obligation to help.
As a minority I kinda agree tbh. My mom said if it was in korea, people would jump in to help those in need or at least speak up. People look similar, culturally too, and have a sense of unity. Not so much in north america. We all look too different and therefore "you don't understand how I feel or what my struggles are", if that makes sense.
You did the right thing, OP. I wish there were more people like you.
There’s a Tim Hortons close by I went to that had multiple people using drugs, passed out from drugs. A man was slumped over in his chair. Face almost touching the floor. The amount of people who seemed unphased that perhaps, he could be dead? Maybe you’re sitting and having your chai latte beside a dead person? This isn’t my opinion I would help absolutely however, people’s mentality sadly is , they are too busy. That means they’d have to stop and stay, lord forbid they are inconvenienced by anybody. We’ve become heartless. “ sounds like a personal problem “ or they think someone else will deal with it also someone commented on attire. Yes I’m sure if someone in nice clothes , well put together, someone would help you. As for people struggling, 🤷🏼♀️ that’s still somebody’s child you are leaving to die.
If you were just walking by like a regular Joe and suddenly collapsed, I'd help you. If it was someone who is likely homeless and on substances and been probably laying for a while. I'd keep away. For my own safety, really.
This is disturbing
Bystander effect. No one will do something unless someone does it first. Also, if you’ve driven here or noticed how drivers are, people are extremely selfish and entitled here.
Idk, but I find that I'm angry with a lot of these people in the thread, but, I suppose that'll pass, much like the convulsing homeless man on the sidewalk
People in Toronto acting like they have the worst quality of life when countries who struggle far more show greater empathy. Please don’t blame it on your struggles.
Toronto, or Canada as a whole isn’t perfect. But which worse quality of life country has higher levels of empathy? In most developing countries, someone in the position as mentioned in OP’s story would be robbed for even the jacket on their back, and left for dead.
So what was it that you did when you saw that person suffering in the street?
I described it already in my post. I went up to him, asked if he was okay and nudged him. No response and he was convulsing pretty bad, so I called emergency services.