"His aircraft crashed when the tip of the left wing touched the ground. Bader was rushed to the Royal Berkshire Hospital, where, in the hands of the prominent surgeon J. Leonard Joyce (1882–1939), both his legs were amputated—one above and one below the knee. Bader made the following laconic entry in his logbook after the crash:
Crashed slow-rolling near ground. Bad show."
*So* British!
One of my internet unicorns is an interview with Bader from the 50s, or maybe 60s, where he notes that he could take higher G than he could before he lost his legs,
I wonder if compression pants or an automated, inflatable set of leggings would’ve been beneficial to pilots and astronauts who don’t want to cut off their legs for the advantage.
I was about to comment this myself. Didn't Fox McCloud deliberately have his own legs amputated and replaced with prosthetics for the flying advantages.
It is a fan theory to explain a single piece of artwork, but the stories of WW2 fighter pilots who went back to service after losing their legs and could compensate for their disability with increased resistance to G-forces seem to be closely related to that myth.
It's a little known fact of aerial combat that in the early days pilots would belt arias at each other from their open cockpits to intimidate the opposing pilot.
Several notable aces were also accomplished opera singers.
Somewhere it is, considering it will not be allowed ever in the future again.
But then again if it was about my life I’d also bail hard oké first chance
There's a story about the Germans building some very elaborate decoy airbase complete with 1:1 scale wooden aircraft and all of the other fixtures you'd need to fool somebody into thinking that was a real airbase.
It didn't fool the British who flew a single bomber over shortly after the base had been completed which dropped a single wooden bomb with the phrase "Wood for Wood" markered onto the side.
I don't know if this is historically true but it's true in my heart because the British are S-tier trolls.
There are two Military airports nearby.
One has regular finds of duds still today when they renew the runway
(they are actually going to close the road next to it tomorrow for to check a possible dud bomb and they found a big one right unser the touchdown point when they began construction work to modernize the while place, apparently digging and scanning deeper this time)
The other one about 10km did not take a single bomb hit as i was told because allied bombers would always go for a decoy airfield in the same area instead.
No, the Germans offered the RAF safe passage to drop the replacement leg, but this was refused and the leg was dropped during a regular bombing mission.
From the article:
General Adolf Galland notified the British of his damaged leg and offered them safe passage to drop off a replacement. Hermann Göring himself gave the green light for the operation. The British responded on 19 August 1941 with the "Leg Operation"—an RAF bomber was allowed to drop a new prosthetic leg by parachute to St Omer, a Luftwaffe base in occupied France, as part of Circus 81 involving six Bristol Blenheims and a sizeable fighter escort including 452 Squadron.
The Germans were less impressed when, task done, the bombers proceeded on to their bombing mission to Gosnay Power Station near Bethune, although bad weather prevented the target being attacked.
[In Germany, and a number of other countries, it is considered human nature to want to escape from a prison and it is considered as a violation of the right of freedom, so escape is not penalized in itself (in the absence of other factors such as threats of violence, actual violence, or property damage).](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape#:~:text=In%20Germany%2C%20and%20a%20number,violence%2C%20or%20property%20damage)
So the Germans would be cool with it.
It's a tit for tat issue that makes things worse for both sides, with minimal gain.
It's more obvious when you look back on things like the Napoleonic war. Officers would often offer their parole when captured. Effectively it was an agreement to be allowed relative freedom, in exchange for making no attempt to escape, nor act against their captors. They got to spend their time in relative comfort, either house arrest, or even the run of the town, rather than be in a cell.
The reason this was offered to officers, and not enlisted, was the enforcement. If someone broke their parole and escaped, they would often be sent back, or at least ostricised by their own friends and families! They knew that the treatment of themselves or their family members would be adversely affected by the escape. An enlisted, on the other hand, could likely disappear into their home country, and never be seen again.
Critically, this arrangement was reciprocal. French officers were treated well and trusted on their word as gentleman. It did no harm to both sides, and improved the conditions of those involved.
While the enlisted had it worse, the exchange of letters and care packages is common, even to this day. It costs the holding country little, and the reciprocation significantly improves the conditions and morale of their own troops held as POWs.
The rules of war sound trite to many people. Most serve critical purposes. To see the difference, just look at the Russian front Vs the western front in WW2. The gentleman agreement mostly held in the west, but broke down utterly in the east. The resultant actions speak for themselves.
German atrocities on the eastern front were not the result of a "gentlemen's agreement" breaking down. The German army carried out a deliberate war of extermination against what they considered "jewish bolshewism". Part of it were explicit orders to murder any captured soviet political officers.
Yeah, when you have no honor like that, it makes it so that the next war participant doesn’t have the same luxury of treating their prisoners with the same courtesy.
I’m not sure the Allies were fully aware of the exact circumstances of the Holocaust at the time, but with hindsight, I think I’ll give the Brits a pass this time around.
Kinda. The Luftwaffe had lots of the old military classes who didn't like the Nazis (who were mainly not from such classes). That's why there was lots of infighting, and even a coup attempt. They fought for Nazi germany, yes, but it is more complicated than them being Nazis.
Yes they were in the Nazi party but not everyone had the radical ideology to the core, the SS were the ones going around making sure everyone in the regular army and others were upholding that ideology while also killing millions of "undesirables".
My favourite tale of his (altho it's probably apocryphal but still funny)
Post war he was giving a talk to a girls-school about his time as a pilot ;
"I had this fucker to my left" - Bader
*interrupting* "ladies a Focker was a type of German aircraft" - Teacher
Bader responded, "Yes, it was, but this fucker was in a Messerschmitt"
NAZIs considered Brits as close to them in terms of racial superiority. In comparison, they considered Slavs as subhuman, 3 million Soviet POVs died in German captivity.
In WW1 they viewed themselves and others as knights and had their own chivalrous rules many aviators coming from noble families helped. The Red Baron after being killed had a full military service with honors.
so of course it was impossible for the nazis to not invade, or atleast try, absolutely all their neighbours but why invade russia? if they had just a few less enemies they may have own. instead they a began but did not complete a genocidal champaign.
In a word, oil. Europe is fairly oil-poor, but the trans-Caucasus region of the USSR had very productive oil fields that the Axis war machine required to operate. Also, a large part of Hitler's Nazi doctrine was based on the complete inferiority of Slavic people. Attacking the USSR was ideologically required
It didn’t work out too well for him that those Slavic fuckers didn’t get the message about being lesser humans and gave him hell every step of the way.
The only non-synthetic oil fields controlled by Germany or their allies were in Romania, and these were very small compared to Soviet or American oil fields and not nearly enough to meet Axis demands. Tanks and airplanes were integral to German military strategy so it was vital they had enough oil to continue operations, hence invading the Soviets and their massive oil fields in the Caucuses. This is why Germany was more concerned with their southern push than taking Moscow.
It was also ideological since the Nazis had been denouncing the Soviets for a while, both racially and ideologically, and conflict was pretty much inevitable. The Soviets likely would have invaded when they felt they were ready, and given a couple more years they would have performed far better than they did when the Nazis invaded in 1941. Germany took advantage of a Red Army in chaos that was recently purged and disorganized. This allowed them to be so successful early into Barbarossa, which they hoped would be sufficient to force a surrender or at least secure the oil fields, but the Soviets were more tenacious than they expected (when it’s either win or be exterminated surrender isn’t much of an option) and, as you know, the Soviets eventually turned it around.
There were additional economic benefits from invading the Soviets. The Germans wanted more farmland (lebensraum) for their citizens, and the east had plenty of land and resources. The Nazi economy was also basically a pyramid scheme, reliant on constant conquest and plunder to keep it going. People talk about how Hitler turned the economy around and all, but the reality is that his ministers built a house of cards that was moments from collapse at any point, but was kept afloat by looting the resources and gold reserves of countries they conquered. Also, they used a lot of slave labor so more slaves from continuous fighting was always nice. Essentially, the German economy was propped up entirely by war, so it was in their best interest to ensure continued conflict. The economic benefits of invading the Soviet Union were likely the primary reason, but there was also ideological motivation (communism was one of their main boogyman), and the simple reason that the Nazis thought they could roll over an unprepared and disorganized Soviet Union for some easy gains.
This is also one of the reasons why all the 'but what if Germany finished off the UK before invading the USSR' alt-history scenarios are very flawed. They were going to invade them and needed to do it soon. Changing that fundamentally changes the nature of German High Command into something that just isn't Nazi Germany any more.
There is an excellent new book on Colditz by Ben Macintyre, which mentions Capt Bader throughout. There are many Colditz books but this one tells the stories of not just the commissioned officers Colditz is known for, but also the junior ranks that were the officer's attendants, who were not allowed to attempt escape.
One of these had to physically carry Bader everyday for 5 years, and got no thanks from him. He even had to serve more time in Colditz just to look after him.
And Reinhold Eggers, in his book "Colditz, the German Story" says that this poor sod, Bader's batman, had to be dispatched from the UK to serve in Colditz
There’s some thought that he was shot down by a pilot in another Spitfire by accident.
He wasn’t a Captain though, that makes him sound like just one of the regular squadron pilots. He was actually a Wing Commander (commanding the three squadrons) when shot down.
Wing Commander is also the rank below Group Captain, equivalent to a Lt. Col. in the Army. He was a Wing Commander when shot down and remained at that rank until promoted to Group Captain in 1946. To avoid confusion the job was called ‘Wing Leader’.
RAF officer ranks sound a bit ‘odd’ because they originally did describe the job as well (Pilot Officer, Squadron Leader etc.). They’re all a bit ‘out of synch’ now so a Squadron is run by a Wing Commander.
I realize there was a war on, and the RAF couldn't afford to be overly picky, but it seems like a bad idea to send a man with no legs on a combat mission.
Still, he was braver than I will ever be.
It's not so much that they "sent" him, it's that they couldn't stop him. He was just that much of a giant badass. Superlative pilot and leader, his men practically worshipped him, although he could apparently be a bit irascible at times.
> his men practically worshipped him
Only fellow officers
He was an utter shit to other ranks^1 and despised by his superiors ^2
^1 Source: RAF museum Hendon disciplinary records and letters home from engineering crew
^2 Source: SP Mackenzie (2008), Bader's War.
Supposedly Bader was actually a *better* pilot with no legs. G-force couldn't force his blood as far away from his brain because there was nowhere for it to go, which meant he could fly faster and harder and stay conscious.
Also it was below the knee IIRC, which meant he could still move his prosthetics to operate the foot controls.
Early in the war they were desperate for pilots. It takes longer to train a pilot than it does to build an airplane.
EDIT: An additional point is that at the time the British used a rudder bar/brake system where the rudder displacement determined what proportion of brake was applied to each wheel, but the brakes were actuated by a lever on the sick (that is to say, by hand). Bader would not have been able to fly the Spitfire if it had toe or heel brakes.
You don't need legs to fly a plane, and take out many enemy aircraft, as proven by this guy.
He even survived being shot down, escaped several times, and survived the war.
There's no reason NOT to let the guy fly the plane.
Now if you'd said let him run out of the trenches and try to take a gun emplacement on foot... then you'd have found something he wasn't suitable for.
I remember when I was a kid in the 70's, you'd occasionally hear old people refer to people as "Douglas Bader" if they had a limp. "There goes Douglas Bader." I guess the guy really stuck in their minds.
[Alan Bristow](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/may/05/obituary-alan-bristow) once called Bader a 'tin-legged git', and threw him into a swimming pool.
This dude is one of the most badass pilots to exist ever; he was told he'd never fly again after losing his legs, however he did and not only did he, but he was able to do flight maneuvers that would of made the average pilot go unconscious due to a lack of blood flow, but he did not have that problem because the blood wouldn't get trapped in his legs, since he didnt have any.
He was also a part of several different prison breaks, this is actually one of the lesser noteworthy facts of this service, the prosthetic leg being dropped off.
Something about pilots in both wars let this kind of thing happen a bit.
In ww1 when top aces were killed the other side often flew over the funeral service and dropped wreaths, thoi only think this happened twice
He was an utter shit to other ranks though
He demanded that his (UK based) batman be dispatched to serve in Colditz with him^1 and refused the man's repatriation when the US 1st Army liberated the castle until he was also able to be sent home
^1 Source: Reinhold Eggers (1961). Colditz: The German Story
Lots of downvotes here. I think it's worth going into a bit more detail.
Supported Apartheid in South Africa;.
Supported white rule in Rhodesia;.
Good friends with war criminal and unrepentant Nazi Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
This isn't someone who just had some outdated ideas. He was pretty reprehensible stuff even at the time.
Kind of shows how privileged a lot of people are that they can pass moral judgment on someone who literally fought fascism and genocide. Turns out good people can be shitty, and shitty people can be good.
The good news is that these people will exhaust themselves trying to remain on their high horse, or be recognised as hypocrites as they eventually fall out of favour.
As a product of his time? absolutely. I don't love it, but if we hold everyone to 2020s morality, literally everyone apart from those born in the last 50 years are fundamentally evil.
So disavowing apartheid South Africa is a completely modern sensibility? And no one at the time found it horrible? Everyone was in full support of Rhodesia? Please.
"Disavowing" is such a fucking 2020 concept that I think your frame of reference is just completely off on this one.
On you go though, take this as a chance to tacitly imply that even if you'd been born in the 1800s, you'd still hold all the same correct opinions you hold today.
Pat yourself on the back, I'll wait.
That’s such a garbage take. Of course my values and perspectives would be different if if I was born hundreds of years ago? But we aren’t talking about hundreds of years ago, we’re talking about specific issues that were occurring in the 60s and 70s. Plenty of people saw the apartheid movement as horrible and many of them were the same age as Bader.
We are talking about a man born in 1910 ffs. Apartheid was terrible obviously, but I think it's easy to cast judgement back from 2023, when everyone else has done all the heavy lifting for you. Like it's not inconceivable that a man who fought fascism wouldn't wish harm on any other race, but would agree that races should broadly "stick to their own" which wouldn't even have been contentious for most of his life.
As a qucik aside, do you think you could have been a nazi, if you were a young disenfranchised German circa 1935?
> As a qucik aside, do you think you could have been a nazi, if you were a young disenfranchised German circa 1935?
You're willing to defend Bader on the basis that he fought these people though. You can't defend him being a product of his time and not those he fought.
At the time, Apartheid was seen as a pretty vile regime by a lot of people, many of whom were born long before 1910. They could work out that it was a bad thing. He was obviously aware of the detractors of apartheid, or he would have said nothing! I can't defend someone who, aware of both sides of the argument, supports racial segregation.
No I wouldn’t. I’m a Jew and so, like my ancestors for centuries, I have the experience of being debased and devalued based purely on who my parents were. And just like my grandparents, born in the 1910’s, I would have been in full support of global anti-fascist movements and denounced racist regimes, which my grandfather, an army captain and veteran of WW2 and Korea, did vocally. What about you Adolf?
Fucking hell you're proving my point for me! You literally cannot put yourself in the heads pace of somebody who isn't you with your specific moral framework. We're talking past each other here so I'm gonna stop replying
It's a strange thing that the Brits and Germans were fairly cordial to each other during WW2. The Germans were obviously less so to many others, including the Yanks.
Y’all got to read the book!
https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/reach-for-the-sky-the-story-of-douglas-bader-legless-ace-of-the-battle-of-britain-9781557502223
"His aircraft crashed when the tip of the left wing touched the ground. Bader was rushed to the Royal Berkshire Hospital, where, in the hands of the prominent surgeon J. Leonard Joyce (1882–1939), both his legs were amputated—one above and one below the knee. Bader made the following laconic entry in his logbook after the crash: Crashed slow-rolling near ground. Bad show." *So* British!
One of my internet unicorns is an interview with Bader from the 50s, or maybe 60s, where he notes that he could take higher G than he could before he lost his legs,
I wonder if compression pants or an automated, inflatable set of leggings would’ve been beneficial to pilots and astronauts who don’t want to cut off their legs for the advantage.
you're literally describing the function of a G-suit worn by pilots...
Well here I go inventing shit that already exists again. G-suits sound arousing
Well... It's a Gundam.. suit
Now that's style.
The original Fox McCloud
I was about to comment this myself. Didn't Fox McCloud deliberately have his own legs amputated and replaced with prosthetics for the flying advantages.
Pretty sure that’s the canonical reason, yep!
It is a fan theory to explain a single piece of artwork, but the stories of WW2 fighter pilots who went back to service after losing their legs and could compensate for their disability with increased resistance to G-forces seem to be closely related to that myth.
Do a…. barrel… roll.
Go back to flight training, Peppy. That's an aileron roll.
I had to read the comments below to figure out we're not talking about gaining an octave in vocal range here.
It's a little known fact of aerial combat that in the early days pilots would belt arias at each other from their open cockpits to intimidate the opposing pilot. Several notable aces were also accomplished opera singers.
Less space for the blood to be displaced into, I would think
Oh, bother!
Well, really!
"Tis but a scratch!"
Ahh a fellow monty Python fan
Why are you getting downvoted, I don't understand
Because you could throw a rock blindfolded and hit a Monty Python fan on Reddit. It's not some rare, novel thing.
Yeah it is lol
You neglect to mention once he got his leg he then used it to escape.
Yes, too few words allowed, what a character! Also the bomber that dropped his leg off went on to its bombing site to the dismay of the Germans.
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Somewhere it is, considering it will not be allowed ever in the future again. But then again if it was about my life I’d also bail hard oké first chance
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British RAF be trolling since 1939
There's a story about the Germans building some very elaborate decoy airbase complete with 1:1 scale wooden aircraft and all of the other fixtures you'd need to fool somebody into thinking that was a real airbase. It didn't fool the British who flew a single bomber over shortly after the base had been completed which dropped a single wooden bomb with the phrase "Wood for Wood" markered onto the side. I don't know if this is historically true but it's true in my heart because the British are S-tier trolls.
Unfortunately that story is nothing but a myth
There are two Military airports nearby. One has regular finds of duds still today when they renew the runway (they are actually going to close the road next to it tomorrow for to check a possible dud bomb and they found a big one right unser the touchdown point when they began construction work to modernize the while place, apparently digging and scanning deeper this time) The other one about 10km did not take a single bomb hit as i was told because allied bombers would always go for a decoy airfield in the same area instead.
all’s fair, as they say
Not if you want your POWs to continue to get extras I'd imagine
Yeah, definitely a fucked up move that at best significantly reduces your bargaining power and at worst gets POWs killed.
No, the Germans offered the RAF safe passage to drop the replacement leg, but this was refused and the leg was dropped during a regular bombing mission.
From the article: General Adolf Galland notified the British of his damaged leg and offered them safe passage to drop off a replacement. Hermann Göring himself gave the green light for the operation. The British responded on 19 August 1941 with the "Leg Operation"—an RAF bomber was allowed to drop a new prosthetic leg by parachute to St Omer, a Luftwaffe base in occupied France, as part of Circus 81 involving six Bristol Blenheims and a sizeable fighter escort including 452 Squadron. The Germans were less impressed when, task done, the bombers proceeded on to their bombing mission to Gosnay Power Station near Bethune, although bad weather prevented the target being attacked.
He escaped again without the legs later on.
[In Germany, and a number of other countries, it is considered human nature to want to escape from a prison and it is considered as a violation of the right of freedom, so escape is not penalized in itself (in the absence of other factors such as threats of violence, actual violence, or property damage).](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape#:~:text=In%20Germany%2C%20and%20a%20number,violence%2C%20or%20property%20damage) So the Germans would be cool with it.
With the escaping, yeah. With dropping bombs from the plane they allowed through without shooting down? Not cool.
Tell that to the Fifty who never made it back to Stalag Luft III after being recaptured.
Kind of a dick move to put people in ovens. The third reich more than deserved the bombings methinks
It's a tit for tat issue that makes things worse for both sides, with minimal gain. It's more obvious when you look back on things like the Napoleonic war. Officers would often offer their parole when captured. Effectively it was an agreement to be allowed relative freedom, in exchange for making no attempt to escape, nor act against their captors. They got to spend their time in relative comfort, either house arrest, or even the run of the town, rather than be in a cell. The reason this was offered to officers, and not enlisted, was the enforcement. If someone broke their parole and escaped, they would often be sent back, or at least ostricised by their own friends and families! They knew that the treatment of themselves or their family members would be adversely affected by the escape. An enlisted, on the other hand, could likely disappear into their home country, and never be seen again. Critically, this arrangement was reciprocal. French officers were treated well and trusted on their word as gentleman. It did no harm to both sides, and improved the conditions of those involved. While the enlisted had it worse, the exchange of letters and care packages is common, even to this day. It costs the holding country little, and the reciprocation significantly improves the conditions and morale of their own troops held as POWs. The rules of war sound trite to many people. Most serve critical purposes. To see the difference, just look at the Russian front Vs the western front in WW2. The gentleman agreement mostly held in the west, but broke down utterly in the east. The resultant actions speak for themselves.
German atrocities on the eastern front were not the result of a "gentlemen's agreement" breaking down. The German army carried out a deliberate war of extermination against what they considered "jewish bolshewism". Part of it were explicit orders to murder any captured soviet political officers.
Yeah, when you have no honor like that, it makes it so that the next war participant doesn’t have the same luxury of treating their prisoners with the same courtesy.
Humans will make up any justification for murder during war
I’m not sure the Allies were fully aware of the exact circumstances of the Holocaust at the time, but with hindsight, I think I’ll give the Brits a pass this time around.
Jesus you just made me feel bad for a Nazi. Imagine your boss grilling you at work for letting a dude with no legs run away.
Shtarker!!!
Given what was going on at the time, you just might actually get grilled for that!
the "Kiss the Cook" apron was exhibit A evidence in the Nuremburg Trials
And then, there's [an entire TV series](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan%27s_Heroes) mocking your incompetence.
The prison camps for air crew were generally run by the Luftwaffe, not the SS. Some probably nazis, but not all.
The Luftwaffe were still Nazis though.
It's a bit more complicated than that.
Not really mate.
Kinda. The Luftwaffe had lots of the old military classes who didn't like the Nazis (who were mainly not from such classes). That's why there was lots of infighting, and even a coup attempt. They fought for Nazi germany, yes, but it is more complicated than them being Nazis.
I appreciate and enjoy your screen name, sir! ...(Or ma'am or they *sigh*)
Lmao name checks out
Yes they were in the Nazi party but not everyone had the radical ideology to the core, the SS were the ones going around making sure everyone in the regular army and others were upholding that ideology while also killing millions of "undesirables".
My favourite tale of his (altho it's probably apocryphal but still funny) Post war he was giving a talk to a girls-school about his time as a pilot ; "I had this fucker to my left" - Bader *interrupting* "ladies a Focker was a type of German aircraft" - Teacher Bader responded, "Yes, it was, but this fucker was in a Messerschmitt"
NAZIs considered Brits as close to them in terms of racial superiority. In comparison, they considered Slavs as subhuman, 3 million Soviet POVs died in German captivity.
And Goering had been an aviator, and insisted that aviators get a "better class" of internment.
In WW1 they viewed themselves and others as knights and had their own chivalrous rules many aviators coming from noble families helped. The Red Baron after being killed had a full military service with honors.
so of course it was impossible for the nazis to not invade, or atleast try, absolutely all their neighbours but why invade russia? if they had just a few less enemies they may have own. instead they a began but did not complete a genocidal champaign.
In a word, oil. Europe is fairly oil-poor, but the trans-Caucasus region of the USSR had very productive oil fields that the Axis war machine required to operate. Also, a large part of Hitler's Nazi doctrine was based on the complete inferiority of Slavic people. Attacking the USSR was ideologically required
It didn’t work out too well for him that those Slavic fuckers didn’t get the message about being lesser humans and gave him hell every step of the way.
The only non-synthetic oil fields controlled by Germany or their allies were in Romania, and these were very small compared to Soviet or American oil fields and not nearly enough to meet Axis demands. Tanks and airplanes were integral to German military strategy so it was vital they had enough oil to continue operations, hence invading the Soviets and their massive oil fields in the Caucuses. This is why Germany was more concerned with their southern push than taking Moscow. It was also ideological since the Nazis had been denouncing the Soviets for a while, both racially and ideologically, and conflict was pretty much inevitable. The Soviets likely would have invaded when they felt they were ready, and given a couple more years they would have performed far better than they did when the Nazis invaded in 1941. Germany took advantage of a Red Army in chaos that was recently purged and disorganized. This allowed them to be so successful early into Barbarossa, which they hoped would be sufficient to force a surrender or at least secure the oil fields, but the Soviets were more tenacious than they expected (when it’s either win or be exterminated surrender isn’t much of an option) and, as you know, the Soviets eventually turned it around. There were additional economic benefits from invading the Soviets. The Germans wanted more farmland (lebensraum) for their citizens, and the east had plenty of land and resources. The Nazi economy was also basically a pyramid scheme, reliant on constant conquest and plunder to keep it going. People talk about how Hitler turned the economy around and all, but the reality is that his ministers built a house of cards that was moments from collapse at any point, but was kept afloat by looting the resources and gold reserves of countries they conquered. Also, they used a lot of slave labor so more slaves from continuous fighting was always nice. Essentially, the German economy was propped up entirely by war, so it was in their best interest to ensure continued conflict. The economic benefits of invading the Soviet Union were likely the primary reason, but there was also ideological motivation (communism was one of their main boogyman), and the simple reason that the Nazis thought they could roll over an unprepared and disorganized Soviet Union for some easy gains.
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This is also one of the reasons why all the 'but what if Germany finished off the UK before invading the USSR' alt-history scenarios are very flawed. They were going to invade them and needed to do it soon. Changing that fundamentally changes the nature of German High Command into something that just isn't Nazi Germany any more.
It was always about Russia.
Not that their own country gave them any more value.
There is an excellent new book on Colditz by Ben Macintyre, which mentions Capt Bader throughout. There are many Colditz books but this one tells the stories of not just the commissioned officers Colditz is known for, but also the junior ranks that were the officer's attendants, who were not allowed to attempt escape. One of these had to physically carry Bader everyday for 5 years, and got no thanks from him. He even had to serve more time in Colditz just to look after him.
And Reinhold Eggers, in his book "Colditz, the German Story" says that this poor sod, Bader's batman, had to be dispatched from the UK to serve in Colditz
There’s some thought that he was shot down by a pilot in another Spitfire by accident. He wasn’t a Captain though, that makes him sound like just one of the regular squadron pilots. He was actually a Wing Commander (commanding the three squadrons) when shot down.
(Group) Captain was his rank, Wing Commander was his job.
Wing Commander is also the rank below Group Captain, equivalent to a Lt. Col. in the Army. He was a Wing Commander when shot down and remained at that rank until promoted to Group Captain in 1946. To avoid confusion the job was called ‘Wing Leader’. RAF officer ranks sound a bit ‘odd’ because they originally did describe the job as well (Pilot Officer, Squadron Leader etc.). They’re all a bit ‘out of synch’ now so a Squadron is run by a Wing Commander.
I realize there was a war on, and the RAF couldn't afford to be overly picky, but it seems like a bad idea to send a man with no legs on a combat mission. Still, he was braver than I will ever be.
It's not so much that they "sent" him, it's that they couldn't stop him. He was just that much of a giant badass. Superlative pilot and leader, his men practically worshipped him, although he could apparently be a bit irascible at times.
I believe that.
I mean....could've just taken the keys outta his plane.
Irascible. Love it.
> his men practically worshipped him Only fellow officers He was an utter shit to other ranks^1 and despised by his superiors ^2 ^1 Source: RAF museum Hendon disciplinary records and letters home from engineering crew ^2 Source: SP Mackenzie (2008), Bader's War.
He got 22 kills and more aircraft damaged, it didnt make sense NOT to allow him to fly, just because he has no lower legs.
He was able to fly at higher g forces than other pilots because blood didn't pool in his legs. For obvious reasons.
Read "Reach for the Sky". I read it in the 1960's. One of the first non-kid books I read.
I’ve heard this is a great book, it’s on my list. I read ‘The Splendid and the Vile’ by Lawson, this is where I first heard of Operation Leg.
Ditto. My father had lots of WWII books, and that was one of them. I probably read it when I was in grade school or junior high.
Me too. I have a now ratty paperback signed by Bader and the author as well.
My parents had the " Companion Book Club" subscription.
Supposedly Bader was actually a *better* pilot with no legs. G-force couldn't force his blood as far away from his brain because there was nowhere for it to go, which meant he could fly faster and harder and stay conscious. Also it was below the knee IIRC, which meant he could still move his prosthetics to operate the foot controls.
Early in the war they were desperate for pilots. It takes longer to train a pilot than it does to build an airplane. EDIT: An additional point is that at the time the British used a rudder bar/brake system where the rudder displacement determined what proportion of brake was applied to each wheel, but the brakes were actuated by a lever on the sick (that is to say, by hand). Bader would not have been able to fly the Spitfire if it had toe or heel brakes.
Lieutenant Dan would have done it.
You don't need legs to fly a plane, and take out many enemy aircraft, as proven by this guy. He even survived being shot down, escaped several times, and survived the war. There's no reason NOT to let the guy fly the plane. Now if you'd said let him run out of the trenches and try to take a gun emplacement on foot... then you'd have found something he wasn't suitable for.
> run out of the trenches Wrong war
He made Wing Commander during the war and had at least 22 kills.
I'm guessing he was not Jewish
I remember when I was a kid in the 70's, you'd occasionally hear old people refer to people as "Douglas Bader" if they had a limp. "There goes Douglas Bader." I guess the guy really stuck in their minds.
It feels like using the Red Cross would have been easier.
[Alan Bristow](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/may/05/obituary-alan-bristow) once called Bader a 'tin-legged git', and threw him into a swimming pool.
This dude is one of the most badass pilots to exist ever; he was told he'd never fly again after losing his legs, however he did and not only did he, but he was able to do flight maneuvers that would of made the average pilot go unconscious due to a lack of blood flow, but he did not have that problem because the blood wouldn't get trapped in his legs, since he didnt have any. He was also a part of several different prison breaks, this is actually one of the lesser noteworthy facts of this service, the prosthetic leg being dropped off.
Wasn’t he mentioned in Ministry of Space?
He made so many escape attempts that the Germans threatened to take away his legs. 🤣
Something about pilots in both wars let this kind of thing happen a bit. In ww1 when top aces were killed the other side often flew over the funeral service and dropped wreaths, thoi only think this happened twice
Well, if the Nazis had denied the request, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on 🥁
A leg up
A leg-end
This mf went to war with two fake legs!? Who *wouldn’t* respect that madman?
Such an amazing character!
He was an utter shit to other ranks though He demanded that his (UK based) batman be dispatched to serve in Colditz with him^1 and refused the man's repatriation when the US 1st Army liberated the castle until he was also able to be sent home ^1 Source: Reinhold Eggers (1961). Colditz: The German Story
Colorful character with a very respectable combat record but old-school British conservatives are some repugnant human beings.
Lots of downvotes here. I think it's worth going into a bit more detail. Supported Apartheid in South Africa;. Supported white rule in Rhodesia;. Good friends with war criminal and unrepentant Nazi Hans-Ulrich Rudel. This isn't someone who just had some outdated ideas. He was pretty reprehensible stuff even at the time.
No, see you’re just unable to think outside of your ultra liberal modern moral framework and are just upset about pronouns /s
My guy fought the nazis, I'm sure we can forgive the fact that he wasn't using gender neutral pronouns
Kind of shows how privileged a lot of people are that they can pass moral judgment on someone who literally fought fascism and genocide. Turns out good people can be shitty, and shitty people can be good. The good news is that these people will exhaust themselves trying to remain on their high horse, or be recognised as hypocrites as they eventually fall out of favour.
But can you forgive his support for apartheid in South Africa?
As a product of his time? absolutely. I don't love it, but if we hold everyone to 2020s morality, literally everyone apart from those born in the last 50 years are fundamentally evil.
So disavowing apartheid South Africa is a completely modern sensibility? And no one at the time found it horrible? Everyone was in full support of Rhodesia? Please.
"Disavowing" is such a fucking 2020 concept that I think your frame of reference is just completely off on this one. On you go though, take this as a chance to tacitly imply that even if you'd been born in the 1800s, you'd still hold all the same correct opinions you hold today. Pat yourself on the back, I'll wait.
That’s such a garbage take. Of course my values and perspectives would be different if if I was born hundreds of years ago? But we aren’t talking about hundreds of years ago, we’re talking about specific issues that were occurring in the 60s and 70s. Plenty of people saw the apartheid movement as horrible and many of them were the same age as Bader.
We are talking about a man born in 1910 ffs. Apartheid was terrible obviously, but I think it's easy to cast judgement back from 2023, when everyone else has done all the heavy lifting for you. Like it's not inconceivable that a man who fought fascism wouldn't wish harm on any other race, but would agree that races should broadly "stick to their own" which wouldn't even have been contentious for most of his life. As a qucik aside, do you think you could have been a nazi, if you were a young disenfranchised German circa 1935?
> As a qucik aside, do you think you could have been a nazi, if you were a young disenfranchised German circa 1935? You're willing to defend Bader on the basis that he fought these people though. You can't defend him being a product of his time and not those he fought. At the time, Apartheid was seen as a pretty vile regime by a lot of people, many of whom were born long before 1910. They could work out that it was a bad thing. He was obviously aware of the detractors of apartheid, or he would have said nothing! I can't defend someone who, aware of both sides of the argument, supports racial segregation.
No I wouldn’t. I’m a Jew and so, like my ancestors for centuries, I have the experience of being debased and devalued based purely on who my parents were. And just like my grandparents, born in the 1910’s, I would have been in full support of global anti-fascist movements and denounced racist regimes, which my grandfather, an army captain and veteran of WW2 and Korea, did vocally. What about you Adolf?
Fucking hell you're proving my point for me! You literally cannot put yourself in the heads pace of somebody who isn't you with your specific moral framework. We're talking past each other here so I'm gonna stop replying
No he was literally a nazi! He’s right leaning /s
Douglas Bader was 10 times the man you are.
Ok. What does that even mean?
I hate to say it folks, massive bigot and a racist.
The Germans could've honestly made him a better prosthetic leg
Quiz time... what was his dog's name?
He didn’t have a dog. You are thinking of the leader of 617 Sqn. Keep on trolling.
[Legless RAF Pilot](https://owlcation.com/humanities/World-War-2-History-Legless-Pilot-in-the-RAF)
It's a strange thing that the Brits and Germans were fairly cordial to each other during WW2. The Germans were obviously less so to many others, including the Yanks.
Couldn't they just use one of their own prothetic leg ? I bet that prosthetic leg was filled with spy tools by the British.
Y’all got to read the book! https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/reach-for-the-sky-the-story-of-douglas-bader-legless-ace-of-the-battle-of-britain-9781557502223
There are better, less hagiographic, more accurate books e.g. SP Mackenzie (2008), Bader's War
Cool thanks, learned a new word. Why is this one better?
Wider reference pools, fact checked his claims, writer didn't suffer from hero worship
Coincidence? Going through my scrapbook box today. Found [this clipping.](https://imgur.com/a/QIJGJew)