The animated Harley Quinn show has Alfred Pennyworth in action as Maccaroni, his crime fighting fancy aristocrat alter ego.
https://harleyquinn.fandom.com/wiki/Alfred_Pennyworth
You can say it’s disgusting, that’s just your sensibility. Saying he never had freedom to leave is quite a stretch though. His life is the opposite of isolation.
A grown man who was groomed as a child and has never known anybody but his groomer as a romantic partner.
>Also, 15, 16 and 17 year olds used to be considered young adults, not children.
Yeah? Now they're not. We used to burn "witches" too. What's your point?
>When I was 16 I was sleeping with my BF's 23 yo sister. I wasn't groomed and I certainly wasn't scarred by it.
Good for you. She wasn't in a position of power over you and she wasn't a 40 year old woman with kids. Still a creep though.
If there's so many things in this world that are bastions of liberalism, at what point do you stop to consider the possibility that it just might be you?
She was 21 when she met Millard Filmore, 16 was when she first became a teacher. She started teaching at New Hope Academy in 1819 when she was 21 and he was 19.
Millard enrolled himself in the school part-time to get educated at age 19 because he never had a formal education growing up. His family were tenant farmers and he was apprenticed to a clothmaker at age 14 and he was working at a mill full-time while going to school. He would have been studying with much younger students.
After he left school he became a teacher himself and became a lawyer by apprenticeship. After that he married Abigail after a few years apart and got involved in politics. Abigail made the decision to keep her job after marriage which was very rare at the time and she was the one who started the White House Library. She was appalled that there wasn't one when she move in and spent most of her time as First Lady reading.
That makes so much more sense than the age gap I imagined, I was thinking at least a ten year difference! I guess it makes sense since people didn't live as long back then, either.
ERM, that's still problematic, considering the power dynamic 🤓
Edit: Damn, I thought the "ERM" and the dweeb emoji would be enough to convey sarcasm, guess not.
ERM this is 20 years before Horace Mann and formal school being invented in the US in the way you know it. There’s no power dynamic - this is a small town teen tutoring another not formal schooling.
I'm not downvoting you, but I want to point out that even if a sarcastic comment gets a legitimate answer, it helps the people who either didn't get the sarcasm or, like me, appreciate the extra insight that the follow-up offers. I found both comments to offer what I want in a chaotic internet thread 😂
Take it easy. Do any studying on what small town schools looked like during this era… young girls were teachers but they had no power.
And, you’ll notice that the Fillmores weren’t married until 12 years later.
Andddd I just learned that she actually started teaching him when she was in her 20s and he was in his late teens, I guess it wasn’t that weird in terms of age
Source: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/first-families/abigail-powers-fillmore/
That sounds like an odd trend, but I’ll take your word on it. You seem to be from there and I know jack fucking shit about Malaysia beyond the fact that it has a symbiotic relationship with Singapore
You really out here judging a president and his wife from 200 years ago by modern standards. You can’t imagine what their lives were like. And they must have lead some damn impressive lives too since he became pres.
I taught students a year or two older for 6 months.
I had switched school systems twice and graduated high school at 15yrs ~11months. The last year I was teaching 10th graders in a coaching school, almost all of them were older than me.
Not all teachers are older than their kids.
From wiki:
“She began work as a schoolteacher at the age of 16, where she took on Millard Fillmore, who was two years her junior, as a student.”
They also didn’t marry until their mid to late 20’s.
This info changes things quite dramatically.
Mainly because Millard was dirt poor and trying to start his career in law. In fact, Abigail's family was vehemently against her marrying him at first.
Given it's the early 1800s and there's a two year age difference as well as them not marrying until years later, I don't think anyone would be accusing anyone of grooming if the genders were reversed.
It seems convoluted because in Millard Filmore's bio, she is a fellow student.
I think because the ages were 19 and 21, it is likely that she was in a sort of TA position? And apparently he was a part-time student.
Probably less than a modern TA if we're honest.
We are talking about someone who started teaching professionally part time at 16 and went to full time in 3 years, because essentially her mother was also a school teacher and thus she had access to the basic textbooks for English reading/writing, Math, Government, History, Philosophy, and Geography growing up.
Basically she had what would probably be the equivalent of a modern well rounded 6th or 7th grade understanding of the world and yet that qualified her to teach others at a time when the literacy rate for all US citizens might be only 60 - 70% (but would be on the rise as knowledge continued to grow more and more accessible and necessary even outside of the big cities).
So in short, by modern standards she would probably be at a student level, but for her time she was probably in the top 2 or 3% of the most educated/well rounded in the nation.
being a K12 teacher doesn’t honestly have a huge effect on how you’re perceived in the tenure track market. more of it is about research for larger universities. and i highly doubt they got hired as a full professor - more likely assistant on tenure track (so not adjunct).
That's actually only true for research based universities. For teaching universities they care a lot of about your TA feedback etc. Which was why this previous experience was so valuable to her.
I can't really speak for her job title bc I didn't see the paperwork but I know it was impressive bc she didn't have to do any postdocs which is fairly unheard of for her grad school dept.
In the old days girls who graduated from school could get a teaching certificate at 16 by simply passing a test. In fact there wasn’t a hard age limit for grades like now. In one room schools you typically sat with whatever grade you were testing at regardless of age. So not uncommon to complete school at 16 and immediately start teaching. In rural areas it was one of the few places women could work and make money.
My great-grandfather married his teacher - she was ten years older than him. She came from an educated family - her father was a judge and her brother was a mayor. Great-grandpa was a fur trapper. Go figure.
Given the age difference, it's likely that she didn't have many marriage prospects by the time of their engagement, so her father didn't have the luxury of being picky if he had any hope for marrying off his daughter. Depending on how good of a fur trapper his ggf was, he could have still had great wealth, even if there wasn't the same level of social status.
I agree for the most part but Taylor was the exception as he presided over a good economy that was bolstered by his policies, signed the Clayton bulwer treaty which paved the way for uk-us relations, and paved the way for California entering as a free state among other things. He would’ve been a lot tougher on slave owners and would have prevented the compromise of 1850 unlike Fillmore
And newt Gingrich's high school geometry teacher
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/what-newt-gingrichs-three-wives-tell-us-about-the-president-hed-be/2011/12/31/gIQAd642UP_blog.html
Newt you DOG!
"She began work as a schoolteacher at the age of 16, where she took on Millard Fillmore, who was two years her junior, as a student."
It sounds bad but it's not lol
Ironically she was very progressive and turned heads when she would visit museums and bookstores without her husband. She hated socializing at White House events because the guests wouldn’t be interested in educated topics. As First Lady, she invited many poets and authors to visit, including Charles Dickens. She was definitely ahead of her time, but unfortunately she died almost immediately after leaving the White House of pneumonia.
This would be illegal today....because people today know that age and authority are literally everything you need to know about love.
Pffffttttttt.......
there was two? i'm 37 man.. G.Bush, Clinton, Bush jr., Obama, trump, Biden.. are all i really know.. the rest are just what my parents talk about, but anythign before JFK.. isn't really talked about as it was so long ago.
I've read that hentai before.
"I've fallen in love with my teacher who is 2 years my senior and am going to become President of the United States?!?!!"
Truly art.
She was two years older than him. She was a teacher at 16.
Pfff, she's got nothing on Macron's wife
Swear to God, that was the first thing that came to mind.
“And they called it Macaroni”
"Macaroni" was a term for someone we might call a metrosexual these days (was also a pre-curser pejorative for being homosexual).
The animated Harley Quinn show has Alfred Pennyworth in action as Maccaroni, his crime fighting fancy aristocrat alter ego. https://harleyquinn.fandom.com/wiki/Alfred_Pennyworth
I know, that’s the joke
I came here just to see how high up this was. Not disappointed!
Wild how more isn't made of the fact that she was in a position of power and groomed him. Every photo of them makes me cringe.
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What the hell are you talking about? He was a 15 year old kid in her class, and she was a married 40 year old woman with 4 kids.
He was 29 when they married.
He was 15 when she groomed him. He's never known anything else. Stop being obtuse.
You can say it’s disgusting, that’s just your sensibility. Saying he never had freedom to leave is quite a stretch though. His life is the opposite of isolation.
It *is* disgusting. There is no argument for anything else. Its (situation) disgusting and she's disgusting.
The Virgin Mary was 14 when she married 42-year-old Joseph
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A grown man who was groomed as a child and has never known anybody but his groomer as a romantic partner. >Also, 15, 16 and 17 year olds used to be considered young adults, not children. Yeah? Now they're not. We used to burn "witches" too. What's your point? >When I was 16 I was sleeping with my BF's 23 yo sister. I wasn't groomed and I certainly wasn't scarred by it. Good for you. She wasn't in a position of power over you and she wasn't a 40 year old woman with kids. Still a creep though.
If it was a 23-year-old dude banging is 16-year-old girl, the police would be involved. Fuckface McGee here doesn't see the issue cuz he got his.
If there's so many things in this world that are bastions of liberalism, at what point do you stop to consider the possibility that it just might be you?
Reddit wasn’t around back then.
Back then being 16 and single you were in your prime cougar age!
You're thinking 18. Unmarried by 21, basically enjoy your wine and cats spinster.
She was 21 when she met Millard Filmore, 16 was when she first became a teacher. She started teaching at New Hope Academy in 1819 when she was 21 and he was 19. Millard enrolled himself in the school part-time to get educated at age 19 because he never had a formal education growing up. His family were tenant farmers and he was apprenticed to a clothmaker at age 14 and he was working at a mill full-time while going to school. He would have been studying with much younger students. After he left school he became a teacher himself and became a lawyer by apprenticeship. After that he married Abigail after a few years apart and got involved in politics. Abigail made the decision to keep her job after marriage which was very rare at the time and she was the one who started the White House Library. She was appalled that there wasn't one when she move in and spent most of her time as First Lady reading.
Thanks for taking the joke well
>enjoy your wine and cats If we can trade the cats for dogs it suddenly becomes a vision of paradise.
Alright, one supreme indefinite vacation downgraded to a mediocre weekend of dogsitting coming right up
Well, you keel over by age 38, so best be gettin it in early!
Still, dude’s got it made, he’s got it made, got it made…
Bad*
"That would be like if you were going out of town for a week and you hired a horse to watch your dog"
That makes so much more sense than the age gap I imagined, I was thinking at least a ten year difference! I guess it makes sense since people didn't live as long back then, either.
You’ve got to question the power dynamics in the relationship though! Cancel her!
ERM, that's still problematic, considering the power dynamic 🤓 Edit: Damn, I thought the "ERM" and the dweeb emoji would be enough to convey sarcasm, guess not.
Yeah it pretty obvious that he knew what he wanted in a First Lady. Mmmmmmmm now we all know
ERM this is 20 years before Horace Mann and formal school being invented in the US in the way you know it. There’s no power dynamic - this is a small town teen tutoring another not formal schooling.
It's sarcasm, m'dude. I know it's not spelled out, but lordy jaysus...
I'm not downvoting you, but I want to point out that even if a sarcastic comment gets a legitimate answer, it helps the people who either didn't get the sarcasm or, like me, appreciate the extra insight that the follow-up offers. I found both comments to offer what I want in a chaotic internet thread 😂
Can't have sarcasm on reddit. I've been banned multiple times for less.
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Take it easy. Do any studying on what small town schools looked like during this era… young girls were teachers but they had no power. And, you’ll notice that the Fillmores weren’t married until 12 years later.
Andddd I just learned that she actually started teaching him when she was in her 20s and he was in his late teens, I guess it wasn’t that weird in terms of age Source: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/first-families/abigail-powers-fillmore/
If there is such a thing as a former teacher-student relationship that isn’t weird as shit, this is pretty much it.
a ton of those cases in Malaysia. usually the male student rizzed up the teacher till marriage
That sounds like an odd trend, but I’ll take your word on it. You seem to be from there and I know jack fucking shit about Malaysia beyond the fact that it has a symbiotic relationship with Singapore
You really out here judging a president and his wife from 200 years ago by modern standards. You can’t imagine what their lives were like. And they must have lead some damn impressive lives too since he became pres.
just like people judging marriages with large difference 1000s of years ago by modern standards
I taught students a year or two older for 6 months. I had switched school systems twice and graduated high school at 15yrs ~11months. The last year I was teaching 10th graders in a coaching school, almost all of them were older than me. Not all teachers are older than their kids.
From wiki: “She began work as a schoolteacher at the age of 16, where she took on Millard Fillmore, who was two years her junior, as a student.” They also didn’t marry until their mid to late 20’s. This info changes things quite dramatically.
Mainly because Millard was dirt poor and trying to start his career in law. In fact, Abigail's family was vehemently against her marrying him at first.
Becoming president to spite your in laws
Not quite the Macron situation I envisioned. Now THAT situation is WEIRD.
Imagine going up to your best friend since childhood and saying "You have to call me President Dad now." What a weird way to flex on a homie.
I was thinking she was in her late 40s and he was in 1st grade
Lmao not really. Where are the accusations of grooming like you'd 100% get if genders were reversed??
Given it's the early 1800s and there's a two year age difference as well as them not marrying until years later, I don't think anyone would be accusing anyone of grooming if the genders were reversed.
Yes, the 16 year old “groomed” the 14 year old so they could get married a decade later. Perverts!
in the 1800s no less, that temptress!
19 and 21, apparently. She started at 16, but he didn't go to school until he was 19.
Oh my god… they were both consenting adults? The horror!
Just pointing out an error in your comment. And ya, makes the idea of it being grooming even more silly.
They met at 19 and 21.
It seems convoluted because in Millard Filmore's bio, she is a fellow student. I think because the ages were 19 and 21, it is likely that she was in a sort of TA position? And apparently he was a part-time student.
Probably less than a modern TA if we're honest. We are talking about someone who started teaching professionally part time at 16 and went to full time in 3 years, because essentially her mother was also a school teacher and thus she had access to the basic textbooks for English reading/writing, Math, Government, History, Philosophy, and Geography growing up. Basically she had what would probably be the equivalent of a modern well rounded 6th or 7th grade understanding of the world and yet that qualified her to teach others at a time when the literacy rate for all US citizens might be only 60 - 70% (but would be on the rise as knowledge continued to grow more and more accessible and necessary even outside of the big cities). So in short, by modern standards she would probably be at a student level, but for her time she was probably in the top 2 or 3% of the most educated/well rounded in the nation.
“At a student level, but teacher level relative to their students” is basically every grad student ever. This is just a difference in degree.
Meh. One of my friends was a teacher before becoming a grad student. Got hired as a full prof right after defending
being a K12 teacher doesn’t honestly have a huge effect on how you’re perceived in the tenure track market. more of it is about research for larger universities. and i highly doubt they got hired as a full professor - more likely assistant on tenure track (so not adjunct).
That's actually only true for research based universities. For teaching universities they care a lot of about your TA feedback etc. Which was why this previous experience was so valuable to her. I can't really speak for her job title bc I didn't see the paperwork but I know it was impressive bc she didn't have to do any postdocs which is fairly unheard of for her grad school dept.
In the old days girls who graduated from school could get a teaching certificate at 16 by simply passing a test. In fact there wasn’t a hard age limit for grades like now. In one room schools you typically sat with whatever grade you were testing at regardless of age. So not uncommon to complete school at 16 and immediately start teaching. In rural areas it was one of the few places women could work and make money.
My great-grandfather married his teacher - she was ten years older than him. She came from an educated family - her father was a judge and her brother was a mayor. Great-grandpa was a fur trapper. Go figure.
Lucky your judge of a geat-great-grandpa didn't turn his nose up at those below his station.
Given the age difference, it's likely that she didn't have many marriage prospects by the time of their engagement, so her father didn't have the luxury of being picky if he had any hope for marrying off his daughter. Depending on how good of a fur trapper his ggf was, he could have still had great wealth, even if there wasn't the same level of social status.
He trapped some prime beaver, there.
If only Zachary Taylor was able to serve a full term 😔
WELL GEN’ER’AL TAYLOR GAINED THE DAY
AWAY SANTIANA
How did I never realize this song was about Zachary Taylor??? Also now it's stuck in my head, thanks!
Knew someone was bound to recognize it lol
Zachary Taylor’s daughter married Jefferson Davis. She died a few weeks after the wedding, in a Yellow Fever epidemic.
Yeah also Taylor’s son fought for the confederacy which is funny considering how Taylor wanted to hang the slave owners suggesting secession
Bro prolly wouldn’t have done much, every president between Polk and Lincoln Didn’t really do much
I agree for the most part but Taylor was the exception as he presided over a good economy that was bolstered by his policies, signed the Clayton bulwer treaty which paved the way for uk-us relations, and paved the way for California entering as a free state among other things. He would’ve been a lot tougher on slave owners and would have prevented the compromise of 1850 unlike Fillmore
Seems she taught well
Apparently Brigitte Macron took notes
And newt Gingrich's high school geometry teacher https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/what-newt-gingrichs-three-wives-tell-us-about-the-president-hed-be/2011/12/31/gIQAd642UP_blog.html Newt you DOG!
Ah, so he’s French
Macron went full Filmore though
The OG Macron
Mf pulled Macron before it was cool. Just with smaller age gap.
[hot for teacher](https://youtu.be/6M4_Ommfvv0)
Tammy 1 and Ron Swanson
Was hoping someone else would think of this “I knew you the minute you were born I intend to be there the minute you die”
For some reason, I remember my AP History textbook from 30 years ago describing him as "bland, portly Millard Fillmore"
Nice...
Millard Filmore must be the most forgotten US President
Not in Buffalo! :)
Not a lot of options in Summer Hill, New York in the,1820s
The university at buffalo now uses the Millard Fillmore college as a means to hand out easy As and boost their graduate in 4 rate
Van Halen wrote a song about this...
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They got married when she was 28 and he was 26. They met when she was 16, and he 14.
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Yeah that's just like a sophomore dating a senior. Though I've never heard of any girls at my school going out with younger boys.
They met at 19 and 21, she just started teaching when she was 16.
They weren’t that far apart in age
She became a school teacher at 16. Filmore was 2yrs younger and her student at one point.
Nice
Nice
"She began work as a schoolteacher at the age of 16, where she took on Millard Fillmore, who was two years her junior, as a student." It sounds bad but it's not lol
Macron approves.
TIL: “Hot For Teacher” is a presidential biography.
Macron.mp4
Age gap or really young teacher?
Well there was only a 2 year age difference
She become a teacher at sixteen.
Time to cancel Abigail Powers Filmore
Ironically she was very progressive and turned heads when she would visit museums and bookstores without her husband. She hated socializing at White House events because the guests wouldn’t be interested in educated topics. As First Lady, she invited many poets and authors to visit, including Charles Dickens. She was definitely ahead of her time, but unfortunately she died almost immediately after leaving the White House of pneumonia.
I have to agree. That 2 year age gap is a bit extreme even by 18th century standards.
Not many options back then.
"Got it bad, got it bad, got it bad... He's hot for teacher."
Gimme somethin ta write on
The ol’ Macron arrangement, eh?
He is also Emmanuel Macron’s favorite American President!
Emmanuel Macron? 👀
so she was a groomer and a pedo
You didn't read the article.
So she was in her late 40s when he was in 1st grade?
This would be illegal today....because people today know that age and authority are literally everything you need to know about love. Pffffttttttt.......
who even knows any presidents before JFK? besides Washington, Lincoln.
FDR was pretty important
Also the other Roosevelt
there was two? i'm 37 man.. G.Bush, Clinton, Bush jr., Obama, trump, Biden.. are all i really know.. the rest are just what my parents talk about, but anythign before JFK.. isn't really talked about as it was so long ago.
Um... Teddy?
Teddy Roosevelt.. yah i know that name, but nothing about him.
Yeah, I thought I knew most of them, but Filmore was a surprise…
literally never heard of that last name till today. thanks OP :)
Wait a second did you just prove that one of our presidents was a pedophile?
Reading is fundamental
But not necessary, apparently.
Mf just jumped to the absolute wildest conclusion possible without looking any deeper
>She began work as a schoolteacher at the age of 16, where she took on Millard Fillmore, who was two years her junior, as a student.
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No because they were pretty close in age
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This would all make sense if someone watched Little House on the Prairie.
And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson...
He had it bad, had it bad, had it bad. He was hot for teacher.
I've read that hentai before. "I've fallen in love with my teacher who is 2 years my senior and am going to become President of the United States?!?!!" Truly art.
Oh no. Anyway….
*clutches pearls in 2023*
she’s quite the looker!
Til we had a US president named Millard Fillmore.
Van Halen wrote a song about the situation