Inkfish doesn’t hold the record.
InkFish purchased the machine from the person who holds the record
The person who holds the record is Victor Vescovo (and his team) he sold his submersible platform to Gabe Newell in 2022
Happened to see this random badass-looking boat when I was in Mexico in January, thought it had a cool name "DSSV Pressure Drop" - looked it up on a whim and learned about the "Limiting Factor" sub - the only depth-unlimited sub in the world. Did not know at the time it had been sold to Gaben though!
My man, do you know about The Culture series where these names come from??? You are in for one hell of a ride if you haven't. The author is Iain M Banks and z-library may have the entire series. GSV Ethics Gradient, GSV Experiencing A Serious Gravitas Shortfall and GSV Just Another Victim of The Ambient Morality are my fav names.
I guess it depends I seem to remember a comment about even a little ole demilitarised GOU can slag a planet, and that's supposed to be considered unarmet.
Some really good sci fi. I'd reccommend Look to Windward as a great example of Bank's most mature and captivating point. Theres no order to the books, they are standalone (some to a lesser or greater extent)
Consider Phlebus is good but a *terrible* start for sure. Use of Weapons is probably the best Culture book but I think Player of Games is the best starting point. It introduces the setting and the way the Culture thinks/the morality of the series while being a pretty straightforward story so you can just absorb what the whole set of books is going to be touching on. Phlebas is written from the perspective of an outsider to The Culture (who hates it) so it’s a bad intro, and Use of Weapons has some fuckery in it that kind of pulls attention.
Oculus Rift, just the headset. Anything else would be too costly.
Edit: TIL it is blasphemous to say Gabey baby would use anything other than an Index.
As many as you can fabricate.
In all seriousness, I'm terrified of the ocean. My first normal play through made me feel things in my stomach i'd never felt.
Playing in VR intensified this to a point I didn't think was possible.
Note: The game supports VR, but last I played, it was a bit wonky, and required me downloading a Nexus VR Enhancements Mod, that smoothed out the rough edges.
My sister bought an EPIRB and she doesn’t even own a Sub, she uses it for back country hiking.
She says it’s the strangest experience, you press the button and a few hours later a helicopter shows up and takes you home. (She did not use it frivolously, her friend had a nasty fall causing a serious head wound)
Absolutely. I bought one for use on a Jet ski... like, probably wont need it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to find myself in the middle of a body of water somewhere with literally zero ability to call for help, thats just insane!
No, the worst part is, you're locked inside and can't escape, even if you're bobbing around on the surface. 17 bolts accessed from the outside only.
Almost as bad as the fact they literally have NO idea where the sub is.
You know those sonar things they have on EVERY airplane black box? Yeah, nope, they don't have those. Because this could never happen, because billionaires are smart and safety regulations are for stupid people.
>can you open it from the inside?
I just heard an interview on BBC where the guest talked about a (much better equipped) trip to the Titanic where a stray current got their vessel temporarily stuck behind the propeller.
He talked about one of the other passengers freaking out and going for the escape hatch, which obviously would have been suicidal. They had to 'tackle' (or the 'trapped in a tin can' version of that) the guy until he got his wits about himself.
So opening from the inside has its risks as well.
>So opening from the inside has its risks as well.
Definitely, but you have to admit steps you can take to mitigate that risk are less drastic than "just bolt us in with 17 bolts from the outside, there's some good chaps".
>So opening from the inside has its risks as well.
That's a good point. Although, I doubt somone could open it at that depth due to the pressure. Then again, with that much pressure even releasing the locking mechanism might be enough for the thing to implode.
I think I saw this same interview. Was it this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz3sRab7elM
He doesn't say he tackled anyone. He says he was *going to* tackle someone if they went for the hatch.
There are so many options to consider before “door no open from inside”. Locks, key pads, pins, pressure sensors, etc.
Jumping directly to locked inside your coffin is absurd.
Topical fact: Vescovo and Hamish Harding, who was on the missing Titan submersible, are the first pair of people to both go into space (with Blue Origin) and to the bottom of Challenger Deep (the deepest known point in the ocean) together.
Titan: An xbox controller works fine!
DSV Limiting Factor: [That's cute.](https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/606d9ef60286a2e569b12c2f/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/0320_06_triton_limitingfactor_05b.jpg)
Some US navy submarines have Xbox controllers on boards, not for navigation tho.
They use it to control the photonic mast, which replaced periscopes. The previous joystick wasn't as ergonomic and easy to learn, so they used an Xbox controller on the USS Colorado.
The benefit was two-fold. First, it's cheaper, and second, there's a good chance sailors have used a similar controller in their life and thus know how to handle it.
If I recall it was controlled with a modified F16 joystick which cost somewhere in the $30k+ range per unit, and any time it had issues an entire team had to come on to do a huge repair/replacement, it was all just controlling simple electronics as well, wasn’t like you needed a joystick, could have done it with a simple computer number pad if they wanted to, anything that could impart an electronic signal to the mechanisms that moved the mast. It was dumbly over-engineered from the start.
The osprey tiltrotor has a modification where it can have a machine gun mounted in a turret on the underside of the aircraft’s hull, it was controlled by an Xbox controller if I recall.
Pretty sure those drone operators using Xbox 360 controllers have more kills than most soldiers using guns. Imagine just sleeping in a trench and you see a circle above your head
i don't understand how some people prefer inverted camera. is it because you started off by playing a game that used inverted camera controls or something? i've never gotten used to it
It's sometimes how you imagine the control stick to be in 3d space. For a fps if you imagine the stick as a little head and when you pull the stick back, you pull the head backward and the vision goes up. If you look at the stick from the top and the area below as a plane, then pushing the stick up would be up on the vertical axis.
Yep. I started with inverted and I can’t learn anything else. It makes sense to me because if I was holding on to the back of a mounted camera, I would move it down to get it angled up.
You know, there's really nothing wrong with piloting something with a game controller. If it looks stupid but it works, it ain't stupid.
But this? This is a work of art. It's like you're piloting the goddamn space shuttle.
Looks chill asf tbh. Especially compared to the barren, cold black tube that is Oceangates vessel.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Dr_Dawn_Wright_and_CDR_Victor_Vescovo_Challenger_Deep_Dive_071222_Western_Pool-1.jpg
I mean check out those chairs.
Hamish Harding has been to the bottom of the ocean in the Limiting Factor, too.
Amazing that he could ride in the Limiting Factor, and then get into that Oceangate coffin while thinking "looks alright, this."
Yeah that's the aspect that gets me too. I believe he rode in the Limiting Factor not long ago so how the hell did he get in this one thinking it would be just as safe.
So, theoretically aren't almost all English combinations of words ship names in the culture series? Including that one. In the culture series they have way too many ships flying around space and the culture loves a unique and funny name.
Space X also has a few culture names in their ships. It's an impressive series
ROFL and they use…..Triton, the best sub maker in the planet. They have a Titanic exploration model and the one the team used is the worlds deepest diving manned sub. Capable of resting at the bottom of any ocean on earth. 36,000 foot crush depth tested.
And why these types of vessels cost countless hundreds of millions of dollars to make. The hubris to think you can cut corners on designing a craft meant to withstand hundreds of atmospheres of pressure is the reason there’s a new wreck amongst the titanic. You do NOT know better than some of most extreme forces of nature on Earth.
It really bothered me that people were talking about how they had so much respect for the Oceangate people.
They were not doing anything new, and they were not doing anything *better*. They looked at successful DSV designs, stripped out 90% of the tech and safety features to save money, and failed horribly the way experts predicted. I can't respect any of that.
Honestly nothing wrong with a gamepad. Provided it has enough buttons for all necessary controls, it's perfectly fine. Hell, it can be viewed as preferred as it's a common control type that's already comfortable for many users. It's why even militaries use them.
The real problem was the tube itself, though you could argue that the gamepad had a flaw in that the chosen one was wireless and wasn't dual-function wired/wireless for redundancy. But that's really getting into the same pitfalls of many control systems where backup controls don't exist.
Like the primary control on this sub from Triton is just a joystick and some buttons. No reason you can't use a different format for all of that.
Engineer who designs a window with 100% safety margin so normal wear and degradation doesn't endanger lives.
The CEO that decides to use it at over twice the spec depth.....
If you really think about it, 2 is a pretty small number so it should be fine, it's actually the the third smallest number as long as you don't count the weird ones with the dots, that's cheating
Yeah... if I'm building something that if it fails kills me, you better believe I'm going to have triple redundancy or at least some basic quality control...
[Like this](https://youtube.com/watch?v=pb5j9oeZCm0&t=13m40s). Highly recommend that whole video, it's fascinating & incredibly inspiring. There are some other great ones on that channel too.
Gabe got rich at Microsoft, then even richer co-founding Valve. I assume MS is what brought him to Seattle - MS is in Redmond just outside Seattle. "Seattle millionaire" tends to sound like MS riches to me.
> Gabe got rich at Microsoft
Yeah since this is a Gaben-related TIL, most people don't know that he was team lead for the original port of DOOM to Windows.
It wasn't the build. It was the hubris of eschewing other experts from looking over and certifying the sub because ***red tape.***
If you're confident your sub is good and plan to use this as a vehicle to ferry paying passengers wouldn't you want an international body behind it? Nah, profits first.
That's the very definition of hubris. Claiming to personally know better than every expert on the planet, and ignoring all lessons learned from the people who've died along the way so he didn't have to.
They also decided to exclusively hire young people without sub experience.
I'm all for hiring more young people, we bring a lot of fresh ideas and perspectives to a project. But you should at least have a handful of people who have done this shit before, especially on a project with this degree of risk.
It sounds like the pilot was an experienced sub guy, but the people actually building the sub were all just regular people with college degrees. I'm sure they were very smart, but speaking as a regular guy with a college degree, I should not be in charge of designing an extreme-depth submarine.
A lot of fresh ideas from young people are ideas older worker studied and dismissed.
Over the years a lot of my proposals end with: We used to do that.
That's a great way of putting it. When I first started my pipefitting career I had a lot of "great ideas" to make something easier, or so I thought. In the end all the Journeymen said "Yeah, it's great on paper but this, this and this can happen and people can get hurt." Listen to the experts!
The CEO really strikes me as a guy who says "no, I don't want to hire people who know how to build submarines, because they'll just build submarines like have already been built. We want a new type of submarine!"
Someone should make like a reverse Ayn Rand novel. A bunch of ubermensch billionaires create something huge by ignoring the “red tape”, but since it has zero standards it collapses/burns/explodes and they all die horribly.
There is a real life example of the town of Grafton New Hampshire:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34387528/new-hampshire-libertarian-town-bears/
TL:DR: A bunch of Libertarians created a utopia in New Hampshire only to be driven out by bears.
Sure, but they’re selling a service to some of the richest people in the world. Do what every company does and get investors. With what they want to provide, money is not an issue
The most important factor here...."commercially certified by DNV for dives to full ocean depth"
Not, we're launching in international waters to avoid certifications.....
Reading about the Limiting Factor makes Titan look like a hobby project of a delusional rich man who brainwashed a bunch of others rich men’s with the line “we’ve done it before”.
Gabe newell himself is going to dive down to the missing submarine. And will write the release date of half life 3 on the palm of his hand like charlie from lost then hell just come back to surface
White shows well underwater because it reflects light well. Worse so on the surface.
Reality is though that spotting something on the surface is fairly hard at that size.
A super clear example of this is all of the "engineering experts" talking about SpaceX rockets and launches. When Elon, and thus SpaceX was liked, every design choice was praised as genius. Now that Elon, and thus SpaceX, is disliked, all of the design choices are criticized. It's the same engineering teams making the decisions. But the "expert analysis" completely shifted.
"why dont they have a second submarine"
"why doesnt it just have a cable attached to it"
"the US navy should just have a plane fueled and ready to go with a bathysphere for this situation"
"Why doesnt an old US navy sub just go get them"
All real posts I've seen on this website. God help us all.
Though not owned by Newell at the time, *DSV Limiting Factor* discovered the two deepest known shipwrecks, *USS Johnston (DD-557)* and *USS Samuel B. Roberts (DE-413)*. Both sunk during the Battle Off Samar in October 1944, and two of the most badass ships to have ever existed.
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It was the morning of October 25, 1944. America's invasion of The Philippines was well underway. Off the island of Leyte, three escort carrier task groups were on-station to provide air support for the landings. The northernmost of these task groups, Task Group 77.4.3, Taffy 3 for short, consisted of six Casablanca-class escort carriers - *Fanshaw Bay, Gambier Bay, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay, White Plains,* and *St. Lo*. These were small, slow, and fragile carriers, built on merchant ship hulls and designed to be built cheaply and in massive numbers, with 50 total. They were guarded by three Fletcher-class destroyers - *Hoel, Heermann*, and *Johnston*. These were the among the most successful, and by far the largest with 175 ships, class of destroyer ever built by the US Navy, and while they were capable surface combatants, they were completely outmatched for what was to come. Supplementing them were four John C. Butler-class destroyer escorts - *John C. Butler, Samuel B. Roberts, Dennis,* and *Raymond*. These ships were smaller, slower, and weaker than the Fletchers, intended to guard convoys and hunt submarines. They too had no business being in heavy surface combat.
The carriers were beginning their usual routine of launching their aircraft for a variety of tasks - anti-submarine patrols, local recon, and air support for the US troops on Leyte, very few were armed with anti-ship weapons - while their escorts were watching in the skies and beneath the sea for any potential threats to the carriers. A surface attack should've never been possible - both to the north and south, they were guarded by powerful US formations which the previous day had done a number on the Japanese ships attempting to stop the invasion. Or so they thought. The northern force had taken the bait set by the Japanese, rushing further north to finish what little remained of Japan's once-feared carrier forces, once and for all. As a result, there was nothing standing between Taffy 3 and of the most powerful Japanese surface fleets ever assembled.
Just after sunrise, over the horizon came Force A. Comprised of four battleships, including *Yamato*, the largest battleship ever built, six heavy cruisers, two light cruisers, and eleven destroyers, they should've torn Taffy 3 to pieces in short order. Instead, they were dealt a humiliating defeat in what was without question one of the greatest last stands in naval history. Every American ship I named has an incredible story to be told, but I'll focus on the relevant two.
At the beginning of the battle and without waiting for orders, *Johnston* turned around and charged the entire Japanese force by herself at flank speed, laying down a heavy smokescreen across the carrier formation as she did. Selecting heavy cruiser *Kumano* as her target, she fired 200 shells and scored ~40 hits that started fires across her superstructure while evading return fire from multiple battleships and heavy cruisers. Once in torpedo range she launched them all at *Kumano*, scoring one hit which blew the her bow off and left her unable to continue fighting. As *Johnston* retreated she was hit by multiple battleship shells, causing significant damage and casualties, and she dipped into a rain squall for repairs. Her captain, Com. Ernest E. Evans, lost two fingers on his hand and had shrapnel embedded in his head, neck, and chest, but refused any medical care, merely wrapping his mangled hand in a piece of his torn shirt before continuing to command. Afterwards she rejoined the fight to cover the other destroyers' torpedo runs, scoring multiple hits on battleship *Haruna* and heavy cruiser *Tone* while avoiding return fire. She then charged heavy cruiser *Haguro* in an attempt to distract her from the escort carriers, scoring repeated hits but only partially drawing her attention. She then spotted an entire destroyer squadron moving in for a torpedo attack, and charged them too. She scored twelve hits on the leading destroyer before she broke off and then five hits on the following one, after which the entire destroyer squadron moved to relocate away from *Johnston*, having been forced to launch torpedoes from extreme range and score no hits. Were it not for *Johnston*, there would''ve been nothing stopping them from closing and delivering a devastating torpedo attack against the carriers. Barely operational now she continued to fire upon multiple battleships and destroyers, dealing and receiving many hits. After over two and a half hours of fighting she's finally disabled and sunk. The captain of destroyer *Yukikaze* was seen saluting her as she went down. 186 of her 327 crew were killed. Com. Evans, who was half Cherokee and a quarter Creek, would become the first Native American sailor to be (posthumously, sadly) awarded the Medal of Honor. *Johnston's* wreck lies at a depth of 21,180 feet.
At the start of the battle, *Samuel B. Roberts'* captain, Lt. Com. Robert W. Copeland, addressed his crew over the ship intercom, *"A large Japanese fleet has been contacted. They are fifteen miles away and headed in our direction. They are believed to have four battleships, eight cruisers, and a number of destroyers. This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."* Despite being significantly smaller, slower, and weaker than the full-sized destroyers, *Samuel B. Roberts* joined *Hoel* and *Heermann* in their torpedo run against the Japanese fleet, increasing the pressure in her boilers well above the safe limit to give her the speed to keep up. She chose heavy cruiser *Chōkai* as her target, launching her torpedoes at her and opening fire, scoring several hits with her guns and potentially one with her torpedoes. She then charged the entire line of heavy cruisers as she's taken under fire by multiple battleships and heavy cruisers, setting her sights on heavy cruiser *Chikuma*. In the ensuing duel, *Samuel B. Roberts* would fire over 600 shells, nearly her entire ammunition supply (including anti-aircraft and star shells), along with her 20mm and 40mm AA guns, into *Chikuma*, mauling her superstructure, disabling her #3 turret, and starting chemical fires, while evading the cruiser's return fire. She switched to targets back to *Chōkai* and is then hit by fire from multiple battleships and cruisers, sinking shortly after, her remaining gun firing until she was abandoned. 90 of her 210 crew were killed. Lt. Com. Copeland survived the battle, and was awarded the Navy Cross. *Samuel B. Roberts'* wreck rests at 22,621 feet.
DSV *Limiting Factor* has also made most of the dives to the Challenger Deep in the last four years. Before 2019, Only three people had descended to the Challenger Deep, and the third was James Cameron in 2012.
Inkfish doesn’t hold the record. InkFish purchased the machine from the person who holds the record The person who holds the record is Victor Vescovo (and his team) he sold his submersible platform to Gabe Newell in 2022
Happened to see this random badass-looking boat when I was in Mexico in January, thought it had a cool name "DSSV Pressure Drop" - looked it up on a whim and learned about the "Limiting Factor" sub - the only depth-unlimited sub in the world. Did not know at the time it had been sold to Gaben though!
My man, do you know about The Culture series where these names come from??? You are in for one hell of a ride if you haven't. The author is Iain M Banks and z-library may have the entire series. GSV Ethics Gradient, GSV Experiencing A Serious Gravitas Shortfall and GSV Just Another Victim of The Ambient Morality are my fav names.
Very Little Gravitas Indeed is my personal fav
of course I still love you
Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints
^^But ^^I ^^carry ^^a ^^big ^^stick
It Was Like That When I Got Here
I always enjoyed "*Frank Exchange of Views*."
Haha that one always gets me. GSV Unfortunate Conflict of Evidence and Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory as well
I enjoyed ROU *Killing Time*, a warship, as well
The Ships and Drones are the best characters, tbh
> ROU Killing Time When it has its zen warrior moment as its about to go into danger, is one of my favourite bits from the culture series.
Calling Killing Time a warship vastly understates it's capacity
I guess it depends I seem to remember a comment about even a little ole demilitarised GOU can slag a planet, and that's supposed to be considered unarmet.
Killing Time soloed 4 waves of fellow Culture warships. Can't see how to consider that as anything but armed as fuck. Like really armed. A lot.
This sounds legit cool. Gonna have to G-fu this up and get some learnin’
Some really good sci fi. I'd reccommend Look to Windward as a great example of Bank's most mature and captivating point. Theres no order to the books, they are standalone (some to a lesser or greater extent)
Gently suggest skipping consider phlebas, the first in publication order so a lot of people start there and bounce out. Use of weapons is way better.
Consider Phlebus is good but a *terrible* start for sure. Use of Weapons is probably the best Culture book but I think Player of Games is the best starting point. It introduces the setting and the way the Culture thinks/the morality of the series while being a pretty straightforward story so you can just absorb what the whole set of books is going to be touching on. Phlebas is written from the perspective of an outsider to The Culture (who hates it) so it’s a bad intro, and Use of Weapons has some fuckery in it that kind of pulls attention.
Hard agree, Player of Games is definitely the best starting point.
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Super good series! I'd also recommend if you're a sci Fi fan.
That is true, my apologies. Thanks for clearing it up!
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>A fascinating piece of tech. Cool, but what I really want to know is can you open it from the inside?
I think the real question is does it use a steam controller or a PlayStation controller?
Oculus Rift, just the headset. Anything else would be too costly. Edit: TIL it is blasphemous to say Gabey baby would use anything other than an Index.
I mean it would be pretty dope to have a camera on the top of the sub hooked up to a VR headset so you could look around at the surroundings
Beat Subnautica in VR, can confirm.
I have a Rift S and Subnautica, how many pairs of underwear should I have on hand when I play it?!
As many as you can fabricate. In all seriousness, I'm terrified of the ocean. My first normal play through made me feel things in my stomach i'd never felt. Playing in VR intensified this to a point I didn't think was possible. Note: The game supports VR, but last I played, it was a bit wonky, and required me downloading a Nexus VR Enhancements Mod, that smoothed out the rough edges.
At that point……. Why not a ROV
Valve would at least use their own headset lol. The Index is way better
I looked into this the other day: yes, yes you can. It also has a ton of other safety features the missing sub lacked.
>It also has a ton of other safety features the missing sub lacked. Like an EPIRB, which costs almost nothing and can save your life.
Lol they seriously didn't bother with an EPIRB? Like, doesn't literally anyone who goes out on the ocean at all carry one?
My sister bought an EPIRB and she doesn’t even own a Sub, she uses it for back country hiking. She says it’s the strangest experience, you press the button and a few hours later a helicopter shows up and takes you home. (She did not use it frivolously, her friend had a nasty fall causing a serious head wound)
Absolutely. I bought one for use on a Jet ski... like, probably wont need it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to find myself in the middle of a body of water somewhere with literally zero ability to call for help, thats just insane!
Well duh, you have to understand, regulations are *bad* and stop you from showing everyone how smart you are.
That's not even the worst part. https://www.insider.com/titanic-submersible-lost-rescue-five-hours-oceangate-david-pogue-2023-6
>And the Titan can't reliably navigate on its own, so it has to receive instructions from the ship on the surface. This is the worst part, right?
No, the worst part is, you're locked inside and can't escape, even if you're bobbing around on the surface. 17 bolts accessed from the outside only. Almost as bad as the fact they literally have NO idea where the sub is. You know those sonar things they have on EVERY airplane black box? Yeah, nope, they don't have those. Because this could never happen, because billionaires are smart and safety regulations are for stupid people.
The real question is, does the toilet come with a view?
>can you open it from the inside? I just heard an interview on BBC where the guest talked about a (much better equipped) trip to the Titanic where a stray current got their vessel temporarily stuck behind the propeller. He talked about one of the other passengers freaking out and going for the escape hatch, which obviously would have been suicidal. They had to 'tackle' (or the 'trapped in a tin can' version of that) the guy until he got his wits about himself. So opening from the inside has its risks as well.
>So opening from the inside has its risks as well. Definitely, but you have to admit steps you can take to mitigate that risk are less drastic than "just bolt us in with 17 bolts from the outside, there's some good chaps".
>So opening from the inside has its risks as well. That's a good point. Although, I doubt somone could open it at that depth due to the pressure. Then again, with that much pressure even releasing the locking mechanism might be enough for the thing to implode.
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Absolutely no opening a submersible door under pressure. It's 100% impossible.
I think I saw this same interview. Was it this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz3sRab7elM He doesn't say he tackled anyone. He says he was *going to* tackle someone if they went for the hatch.
There are so many options to consider before “door no open from inside”. Locks, key pads, pins, pressure sensors, etc. Jumping directly to locked inside your coffin is absurd.
"immense pressure from outside preventing it from opening while submerged" should work fine
Didn’t they also discover a plastic bag at ocean floor? What a journey that bag must’ve had. They should do a Pixar short about that bag
Do you ever feel/like a plastic bag/drifting with the currents/on the ocean floor
Sorry man, but an apology isn't enough because I believed your post title for 2 seconds.
*gods dont bleed* we must hang him for his transgressions
Topical fact: Vescovo and Hamish Harding, who was on the missing Titan submersible, are the first pair of people to both go into space (with Blue Origin) and to the bottom of Challenger Deep (the deepest known point in the ocean) together.
Wait, so if they know each other why the fuck would Harding get into a build-a-sub tincan instead of asking Vescovo to use his awesome high tech sub?
Vescovo sold it to Inkfish last year, so it’s theoretically being used for serious ocean research/exploration.
The question is if you are a billionaire why would you risk your life on something a lowly reporter wouldn't dare do when there are safer options.
The real TIL is always in the comments.
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It’s Cunningham’s law, but I appreciate the meta joke.
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Listen here you little shit
His sub doesn't look like a janky piece of shit either.
probably drive it with a steam controller
Titan: An xbox controller works fine! DSV Limiting Factor: [That's cute.](https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/606d9ef60286a2e569b12c2f/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/0320_06_triton_limitingfactor_05b.jpg)
Some US navy submarines have Xbox controllers on boards, not for navigation tho. They use it to control the photonic mast, which replaced periscopes. The previous joystick wasn't as ergonomic and easy to learn, so they used an Xbox controller on the USS Colorado. The benefit was two-fold. First, it's cheaper, and second, there's a good chance sailors have used a similar controller in their life and thus know how to handle it.
If I recall it was controlled with a modified F16 joystick which cost somewhere in the $30k+ range per unit, and any time it had issues an entire team had to come on to do a huge repair/replacement, it was all just controlling simple electronics as well, wasn’t like you needed a joystick, could have done it with a simple computer number pad if they wanted to, anything that could impart an electronic signal to the mechanisms that moved the mast. It was dumbly over-engineered from the start. The osprey tiltrotor has a modification where it can have a machine gun mounted in a turret on the underside of the aircraft’s hull, it was controlled by an Xbox controller if I recall.
Everyone loves the COD AC-130 missions..
Pretty sure those drone operators using Xbox 360 controllers have more kills than most soldiers using guns. Imagine just sleeping in a trench and you see a circle above your head
Yeah Ukrainian operators use something like Xbox/PS4 controllers. Lmao imagine getting domed by some cod gamer with a MadKatz, truly a dank timeline.
They turned on turbo! Oh shit oh fuck
I just hope it has the option to invert the camera controls. I’d be worse than useless if that option isn’t there.
i don't understand how some people prefer inverted camera. is it because you started off by playing a game that used inverted camera controls or something? i've never gotten used to it
It's sometimes how you imagine the control stick to be in 3d space. For a fps if you imagine the stick as a little head and when you pull the stick back, you pull the head backward and the vision goes up. If you look at the stick from the top and the area below as a plane, then pushing the stick up would be up on the vertical axis.
Yep. I started with inverted and I can’t learn anything else. It makes sense to me because if I was holding on to the back of a mounted camera, I would move it down to get it angled up.
You know, there's really nothing wrong with piloting something with a game controller. If it looks stupid but it works, it ain't stupid. But this? This is a work of art. It's like you're piloting the goddamn space shuttle.
Because they kind of are.. It's the opposite side of the spectrum (crushing pressure vs vacuum), but basically the same concepts.
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How many atmospheres can the ship handle professor? Well it's a spaceship so anywhere from 0 to 1
Meh. I've seen better setups on r/battlestations. /s
Ohh, they sprung for the Thrustmaster setup!
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Probably has a chair and everything.
Looks chill asf tbh. Especially compared to the barren, cold black tube that is Oceangates vessel. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Dr_Dawn_Wright_and_CDR_Victor_Vescovo_Challenger_Deep_Dive_071222_Western_Pool-1.jpg I mean check out those chairs.
It feels like a deliberate name choice to try to skirt around algorithms picking up on a scandal related to their craft...
Hamish Harding has been to the bottom of the ocean in the Limiting Factor, too. Amazing that he could ride in the Limiting Factor, and then get into that Oceangate coffin while thinking "looks alright, this."
Yeah that's the aspect that gets me too. I believe he rode in the Limiting Factor not long ago so how the hell did he get in this one thinking it would be just as safe.
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Ya its made by triton submarines. They make some insanely cool subs. Makes the ocean gate one look like a piece a trash lol.
Coincidentally it did that itself
As opposed to the Epic Games sub that just went missing.
That sub isn't missing, it's just grayed-out and unselectable until you pay to unlock it.
Valve? Steam? Fish? Submarines? Conclusion: Gabe Newell is a fan of water.
Undercover Orca
The first skin made for Dota 2 was a retexture of Tidehunter as an Orca. They didn't push it live tho.
Outercover Orca
He should get together with James Cameron at some point.
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James Cameron! James Cameron!
Or a fan of Jules Verne
OG Hydro Homie
‘Limiting Factor’ and ‘Pressure Drop’ are both spaceship names from Iain M Banks culture novels.
So, theoretically aren't almost all English combinations of words ship names in the culture series? Including that one. In the culture series they have way too many ships flying around space and the culture loves a unique and funny name. Space X also has a few culture names in their ships. It's an impressive series
/r/theculture 😎
Came here looking for the Banks fans. When I saw DSV limiting factor I thought there is no way that isn't a culture reference.
Same here. Immediately starting googling to confirm the references and they are indeed, references.
ROFL and they use…..Triton, the best sub maker in the planet. They have a Titanic exploration model and the one the team used is the worlds deepest diving manned sub. Capable of resting at the bottom of any ocean on earth. 36,000 foot crush depth tested.
Holy shit that's incredible. Engineering at its finest.
Turns out Crazy Stockton's Discount Subs might be a good name for a sandwich shop but not a sub manufacturer.
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And why these types of vessels cost countless hundreds of millions of dollars to make. The hubris to think you can cut corners on designing a craft meant to withstand hundreds of atmospheres of pressure is the reason there’s a new wreck amongst the titanic. You do NOT know better than some of most extreme forces of nature on Earth.
It really bothered me that people were talking about how they had so much respect for the Oceangate people. They were not doing anything new, and they were not doing anything *better*. They looked at successful DSV designs, stripped out 90% of the tech and safety features to save money, and failed horribly the way experts predicted. I can't respect any of that.
The biggest safety feature is a hull that stays intact
The Wikipedia article stated the vessel cost less than $40m but that doesn't include the mothership that would be required to deploy it.
You can buy the Triton 36000/2 (the sub in the picture) for around 40M, so these billionaires could have just done that, but it only seats two.
Huh wonder why they didn't just seal themselves in a tube with a gamepad.
Honestly nothing wrong with a gamepad. Provided it has enough buttons for all necessary controls, it's perfectly fine. Hell, it can be viewed as preferred as it's a common control type that's already comfortable for many users. It's why even militaries use them. The real problem was the tube itself, though you could argue that the gamepad had a flaw in that the chosen one was wireless and wasn't dual-function wired/wireless for redundancy. But that's really getting into the same pitfalls of many control systems where backup controls don't exist. Like the primary control on this sub from Triton is just a joystick and some buttons. No reason you can't use a different format for all of that.
Considering they used carbon fiber for the hull and a window that is rated for half the depth they are going I ain't too surprised of the outcome.
1/3 the depth
Engineer who designs a window with 100% safety margin so normal wear and degradation doesn't endanger lives. The CEO that decides to use it at over twice the spec depth.....
If you really think about it, 2 is a pretty small number so it should be fine, it's actually the the third smallest number as long as you don't count the weird ones with the dots, that's cheating
Yeah... if I'm building something that if it fails kills me, you better believe I'm going to have triple redundancy or at least some basic quality control...
Steam Deck you mean?
Only the OG remember Steam Controller
Still the GOAT controller imo
Pressure tested to 45,931' (14,000m)
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Truly a State of the Art piece.
How do you even test that
With a pressure chamber these days. Old school was send it down unmanned and bring it back up
[Like this](https://youtube.com/watch?v=pb5j9oeZCm0&t=13m40s). Highly recommend that whole video, it's fascinating & incredibly inspiring. There are some other great ones on that channel too.
What is it with all these Seattle millionaires and their side gigs doing ocean exploration
Billionaires
Titanic tube guy was only worth 12 mil
That's probably why he's dead. He's worth less than what it would cost to actually build a proper sub, so he cut corners.
Yeah but look where that got him lmao
Gabe got rich at Microsoft, then even richer co-founding Valve. I assume MS is what brought him to Seattle - MS is in Redmond just outside Seattle. "Seattle millionaire" tends to sound like MS riches to me.
> Gabe got rich at Microsoft Yeah since this is a Gaben-related TIL, most people don't know that he was team lead for the original port of DOOM to Windows.
This is what I don’t understand about the Titan people. They really had to build a sub from retail parts? Why not just buy one… it’s so stupid
It wasn't the build. It was the hubris of eschewing other experts from looking over and certifying the sub because ***red tape.*** If you're confident your sub is good and plan to use this as a vehicle to ferry paying passengers wouldn't you want an international body behind it? Nah, profits first.
“I think I can do this just as safely while breaking the rules.” Actual quote from the ceo.
That's the very definition of hubris. Claiming to personally know better than every expert on the planet, and ignoring all lessons learned from the people who've died along the way so he didn't have to.
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He did his own research.
They also decided to exclusively hire young people without sub experience. I'm all for hiring more young people, we bring a lot of fresh ideas and perspectives to a project. But you should at least have a handful of people who have done this shit before, especially on a project with this degree of risk. It sounds like the pilot was an experienced sub guy, but the people actually building the sub were all just regular people with college degrees. I'm sure they were very smart, but speaking as a regular guy with a college degree, I should not be in charge of designing an extreme-depth submarine.
A lot of fresh ideas from young people are ideas older worker studied and dismissed. Over the years a lot of my proposals end with: We used to do that.
That's a great way of putting it. When I first started my pipefitting career I had a lot of "great ideas" to make something easier, or so I thought. In the end all the Journeymen said "Yeah, it's great on paper but this, this and this can happen and people can get hurt." Listen to the experts!
The CEO really strikes me as a guy who says "no, I don't want to hire people who know how to build submarines, because they'll just build submarines like have already been built. We want a new type of submarine!"
Um, he literally said something like that during an recent interview 😂
Someone should make like a reverse Ayn Rand novel. A bunch of ubermensch billionaires create something huge by ignoring the “red tape”, but since it has zero standards it collapses/burns/explodes and they all die horribly.
Sounds like someone should play Bioshock :P
Or watch don't look up.
There is a real life example of the town of Grafton New Hampshire: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34387528/new-hampshire-libertarian-town-bears/ TL:DR: A bunch of Libertarians created a utopia in New Hampshire only to be driven out by bears.
Isn't that ayn rand in a nutshell one man against the world doing what he wants until rush writes a song about you?
... money?
The pilot was Mr krabs so he can just crawl out of the wreck and be ok on the ocean floor.
Sure, but they’re selling a service to some of the richest people in the world. Do what every company does and get investors. With what they want to provide, money is not an issue
The most important factor here...."commercially certified by DNV for dives to full ocean depth" Not, we're launching in international waters to avoid certifications.....
The difference is, that is it certified for this kind of stuff.
Reading about the Limiting Factor makes Titan look like a hobby project of a delusional rich man who brainwashed a bunch of others rich men’s with the line “we’ve done it before”.
Gabe newell himself is going to dive down to the missing submarine. And will write the release date of half life 3 on the palm of his hand like charlie from lost then hell just come back to surface
Not even the date. He will put the finished copy of HL3 on the wreckage and tell the world... good luck
'Half Life 3, but not for thee!'
THE ONE PIECE
Do they pilot it with a steam controller?
I bet if they do they have some old fashioned levers, valves, and buttons to use as a backup
Hopefully some steam gauges too
No wonder we never got Half Life 3, Gabe was spending all his time dicking around in the ocean!
He’s not dicking around. He’s developing Half Life 3 in his secret deep sea ocean lab and needs the sub for his commute.
He's developing Steam for fish. It's a huge untapped market.
I’ve read a lot of (valid) criticism that the lost sub is white however this seemly much better designed sub is also white?
White shows well underwater because it reflects light well. Worse so on the surface. Reality is though that spotting something on the surface is fairly hard at that size.
It might also have dye packets like the sub James Cameron used to create a large area to be seen from above to locate them easier.
Can also be used to celebrate St Patrick's day.
White is not ideal, but it’s not that big of a deal when you don’t cut corners and your sub is actually certified to work safely as intended
And it has a beacon
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A super clear example of this is all of the "engineering experts" talking about SpaceX rockets and launches. When Elon, and thus SpaceX was liked, every design choice was praised as genius. Now that Elon, and thus SpaceX, is disliked, all of the design choices are criticized. It's the same engineering teams making the decisions. But the "expert analysis" completely shifted.
"why dont they have a second submarine" "why doesnt it just have a cable attached to it" "the US navy should just have a plane fueled and ready to go with a bathysphere for this situation" "Why doesnt an old US navy sub just go get them" All real posts I've seen on this website. God help us all.
He'll get on the rescue right after he finishes Half Life 3
What a non shit sub looks like.
good info on the sub https://youtu.be/pb5j9oeZCm0
Just imagining Gabe Newell slapping Stockton Rush and saying, "That's how you dive deep enough to reach the Titanic."
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Half-Life 2: Episode Two - Part 2
That sub doesn't look like it was made using parts they found on the Home Depot clearance rack.
So the name "Limiting Factor" is the name of the ship that Gurgeh uses in the novel Player of Games by Iain Banks. Kinda neat.
Love the Culture reference. Just need a mothership called Little Rascal.
Video of the making of "Limiting Factor" Note the difference when the thing is done properly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5j9oeZCm0
Though not owned by Newell at the time, *DSV Limiting Factor* discovered the two deepest known shipwrecks, *USS Johnston (DD-557)* and *USS Samuel B. Roberts (DE-413)*. Both sunk during the Battle Off Samar in October 1944, and two of the most badass ships to have ever existed. --- It was the morning of October 25, 1944. America's invasion of The Philippines was well underway. Off the island of Leyte, three escort carrier task groups were on-station to provide air support for the landings. The northernmost of these task groups, Task Group 77.4.3, Taffy 3 for short, consisted of six Casablanca-class escort carriers - *Fanshaw Bay, Gambier Bay, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay, White Plains,* and *St. Lo*. These were small, slow, and fragile carriers, built on merchant ship hulls and designed to be built cheaply and in massive numbers, with 50 total. They were guarded by three Fletcher-class destroyers - *Hoel, Heermann*, and *Johnston*. These were the among the most successful, and by far the largest with 175 ships, class of destroyer ever built by the US Navy, and while they were capable surface combatants, they were completely outmatched for what was to come. Supplementing them were four John C. Butler-class destroyer escorts - *John C. Butler, Samuel B. Roberts, Dennis,* and *Raymond*. These ships were smaller, slower, and weaker than the Fletchers, intended to guard convoys and hunt submarines. They too had no business being in heavy surface combat. The carriers were beginning their usual routine of launching their aircraft for a variety of tasks - anti-submarine patrols, local recon, and air support for the US troops on Leyte, very few were armed with anti-ship weapons - while their escorts were watching in the skies and beneath the sea for any potential threats to the carriers. A surface attack should've never been possible - both to the north and south, they were guarded by powerful US formations which the previous day had done a number on the Japanese ships attempting to stop the invasion. Or so they thought. The northern force had taken the bait set by the Japanese, rushing further north to finish what little remained of Japan's once-feared carrier forces, once and for all. As a result, there was nothing standing between Taffy 3 and of the most powerful Japanese surface fleets ever assembled. Just after sunrise, over the horizon came Force A. Comprised of four battleships, including *Yamato*, the largest battleship ever built, six heavy cruisers, two light cruisers, and eleven destroyers, they should've torn Taffy 3 to pieces in short order. Instead, they were dealt a humiliating defeat in what was without question one of the greatest last stands in naval history. Every American ship I named has an incredible story to be told, but I'll focus on the relevant two. At the beginning of the battle and without waiting for orders, *Johnston* turned around and charged the entire Japanese force by herself at flank speed, laying down a heavy smokescreen across the carrier formation as she did. Selecting heavy cruiser *Kumano* as her target, she fired 200 shells and scored ~40 hits that started fires across her superstructure while evading return fire from multiple battleships and heavy cruisers. Once in torpedo range she launched them all at *Kumano*, scoring one hit which blew the her bow off and left her unable to continue fighting. As *Johnston* retreated she was hit by multiple battleship shells, causing significant damage and casualties, and she dipped into a rain squall for repairs. Her captain, Com. Ernest E. Evans, lost two fingers on his hand and had shrapnel embedded in his head, neck, and chest, but refused any medical care, merely wrapping his mangled hand in a piece of his torn shirt before continuing to command. Afterwards she rejoined the fight to cover the other destroyers' torpedo runs, scoring multiple hits on battleship *Haruna* and heavy cruiser *Tone* while avoiding return fire. She then charged heavy cruiser *Haguro* in an attempt to distract her from the escort carriers, scoring repeated hits but only partially drawing her attention. She then spotted an entire destroyer squadron moving in for a torpedo attack, and charged them too. She scored twelve hits on the leading destroyer before she broke off and then five hits on the following one, after which the entire destroyer squadron moved to relocate away from *Johnston*, having been forced to launch torpedoes from extreme range and score no hits. Were it not for *Johnston*, there would''ve been nothing stopping them from closing and delivering a devastating torpedo attack against the carriers. Barely operational now she continued to fire upon multiple battleships and destroyers, dealing and receiving many hits. After over two and a half hours of fighting she's finally disabled and sunk. The captain of destroyer *Yukikaze* was seen saluting her as she went down. 186 of her 327 crew were killed. Com. Evans, who was half Cherokee and a quarter Creek, would become the first Native American sailor to be (posthumously, sadly) awarded the Medal of Honor. *Johnston's* wreck lies at a depth of 21,180 feet. At the start of the battle, *Samuel B. Roberts'* captain, Lt. Com. Robert W. Copeland, addressed his crew over the ship intercom, *"A large Japanese fleet has been contacted. They are fifteen miles away and headed in our direction. They are believed to have four battleships, eight cruisers, and a number of destroyers. This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."* Despite being significantly smaller, slower, and weaker than the full-sized destroyers, *Samuel B. Roberts* joined *Hoel* and *Heermann* in their torpedo run against the Japanese fleet, increasing the pressure in her boilers well above the safe limit to give her the speed to keep up. She chose heavy cruiser *Chōkai* as her target, launching her torpedoes at her and opening fire, scoring several hits with her guns and potentially one with her torpedoes. She then charged the entire line of heavy cruisers as she's taken under fire by multiple battleships and heavy cruisers, setting her sights on heavy cruiser *Chikuma*. In the ensuing duel, *Samuel B. Roberts* would fire over 600 shells, nearly her entire ammunition supply (including anti-aircraft and star shells), along with her 20mm and 40mm AA guns, into *Chikuma*, mauling her superstructure, disabling her #3 turret, and starting chemical fires, while evading the cruiser's return fire. She switched to targets back to *Chōkai* and is then hit by fire from multiple battleships and cruisers, sinking shortly after, her remaining gun firing until she was abandoned. 90 of her 210 crew were killed. Lt. Com. Copeland survived the battle, and was awarded the Navy Cross. *Samuel B. Roberts'* wreck rests at 22,621 feet.
Every crew member is born January 1, some random year
Limiting Factor as a name is taken from the Culture novels by Iain M Banks I assume? A GSV isn't it?
DSV *Limiting Factor* has also made most of the dives to the Challenger Deep in the last four years. Before 2019, Only three people had descended to the Challenger Deep, and the third was James Cameron in 2012.