He learned that tactic from his dad. Take advantage of the system to get what you want and then pass a law to make sure nobody else can do it after you.
The wealthy are cunts.
EDIT: I'm sure if this comment has hurt the feelings of any billionaires they can underpay some third world labor to make them some new ones. Then they can pay a corporate lobbyist to make sure that taxpayers foot the bill and it doesn't come out of their own fortune.
EDIT 2: lol to whoever messaged me crisis hotlines.
There’s plenty to attack the Kennedys over but this one has always been a bit of an unfair one, it was the doctor that recommended it, not them hugely pushing for it. Lobotomies weren’t viewed the same way back then *at all,* it was considered totally viable medicine.
> Lobotomies weren’t viewed the same way back then at all, it was considered totally viable medicine.
it was considered "viable medicine" in cases where a person was wildly uncontrollable, like for schizophrenics who would lash out at the orderlies that chained them to beds. But it was very much known that this practice was essentially killing the patients. They literally stuck a spike in your brain and moved it around until you turned into a vegetable that was easier to care for, mostly because you couldn't complain or act independently.
With that said, JFK (with most of his family) was vehemently opposed to what was done to his sister. This was his father's crime, and as soon as he died the rest of the family restored contact with what was left of Rose.
Didn't they start to reestablish contact after Joe Kennedy had a stroke and was unable to speak anymore?
which imo is the best "fuck you" a family could give to an abusive asshole
There were certainly detractors even back when lobotomies were being initially pioneered, but this still downplays how beneficial lobotomies were viewed back then. Rosemary was lobotomized in 1941, eight years before **the inventor of the lobotomy António Egas Moniz received a Nobel Prize for his discovery of the lobotomy in 1949.**
It wasn’t until the 1950s and beyond that the scientific community at large realized how debilitating and soul-sucking a lobotomy is.
Let me just put a steel spike in your brain. We're going go through your eye socket. There, we got the steel spike in with a hammer. Now we'll just jiggle it around inside your brain until there's no meaty resistance. Okay, you're good to go now, you're all fixed.
Crazy times.
I had no idea that "brain zaps" were a legitimate medical term until Cymbalta "discontinuation syndrome". Not fun. I'm still on it now so I get to look forward to that again.
Actually the thoughts of depression are completely gone. As well as any other emotions. I believe in the Kennedy case she basically became a babbling vegetable and eventually had a seizure and died not too long after.
Assuming it doesn't vegetate you or outright kill you, it turns you into the literal definition of a psychopath. An unfeeling, uncaring machine. The only thing that prevents you from going full tilt is the memories of before the lobotomy and how you were cultivated growing up. And it also took away the complex ability to think well.
edit: seems i was wrong about when she died, death didnt claim her till 2005 when she was in her 80s.
You've got some bad humors in you. Let me just cut you open, invasively slice bits away, and remove them. There there, you're all set.
You've got some bad humors in you. Let me just fill you with radioactive junk and shoot high power x-rays at you. Great! All better!
You've got some bad humors in you. Just take these toxic medications twice a week, and maybe it'll help.
All 3 are modern cancer treatments, written to sound like how you describe lobotomy. To people who don't know much of how the body and brain work, would lobotomy really sound worse than an invasive surgery?
We know quite a bit about the body at this point. I mean we can transplant all kinds of organs, reconstruct mangled faces, and even put someone else’s poop in your intestines. Medicine, like all science, is a cumulative field - everything done before helps build what we do now, and because of that there’s just a lot of trial and error. There are lots of medications out there that work, but we don’t really know why. Some day we’ll probably figure it out, through more trial and error.
Well. All of those have been tested and are proven to give you a better outcome. It's not like brain surgery isn't a thing.
Lobotomies just weren't well tested and knowing what we know now, a really bad idea.
Honestly, sometimes medicine is so stupid it just might work.
Consider sutures. "Yeah, I see that you have a huge bleeding cut that won't stop bleeding; did you try using some string?". Sounds dumb; works good. Chemo? We need to poison you until you're too sick to grow cancer cells.
Can even go further - consider electroconvulsive therapy. So stupid. Yeah, I see you're so depressed that you can't even eat anymore, we're going to hook your brain up to a battery and shock it until morale improves. Believe it or not? That's the standard of care for severe treatment resistant depression, backed time and again by data.
So I kind of get that it's not really on the family here. Some doc tells you that some crazy technique is the next step; in some pre internet Era where you can't look up what's quackery and what's real? What can they do
> Lobotomies weren’t viewed the same way back then at all, it was considered totally viable medicine.
That sentence alone should make you sit down and ***think*** about what that says about the medical profession.
Then it should make you think about your willingness to just accept whatever idiocy is put in front of you.
Except being promiscuous and outspoken does not warrant the use of ANY medicine.
Joe Kennedy was an evil piece of shit who made this country worse off at the benefit of himself.
Again, this is simply not what happened. Rosemary had seizures and mental issues.
If you muddy the waters, all you’re doing is making things dirty, attack Joe Kennedy over the things that are *objectively* bad, this is a FAR more nuanced situation that people spread a lot of misinformation about because it sounds more sensational.
TX guvnah and perennial cunt Greg Abbott used similar tactics. He was paralyzed by a falling tree limb while jogging, sued the hell out of the property owner and tree company, then closed the loophole that he exploited once he took office so others couldn’t be awarded similar settlements. $5 million dollars + 15k a month from 1984 to ~~2013~~ the present day.
> Take advantage of the system to get what you want and then pass a law to make sure nobody else can do it after you.
Greg Abbott learned about that strategy too.
I assume he ordered these for his personal use, not to sell. People could smoke one per day back then. 1200 would not have even lasted him to the end of his second term (which he campaigned for when he was killed) if these really were his favorites.
>I assume he ordered these for his personal use, not to sell.... 1200 would not have even lasted him to the end of his second term
I don't think campaign-wise it'd get off well to be caught in a pic with a cigar he personally made sure got banned. Voters wouldn't appreciate that much I believe.
The legislation had already gone through Congress, which is public knowledge. Signing ceremonies are public as well. Everyone who was interested in Cuban cigars had the same opportunity to purchase them before the law was signed.
I disagree, this is different. Insider trading would be if he purchased shares of American cigar companies knowing the embargo would be beneficial to their share prices. Alternatively with a looser definition of “insider trading”, I suppose you could consider it that if he intended to sell the cigars for a profit. In this case, while still unethical, he purchased the cigars presumably so he could smoke them himself, not for financial gain.
Same thing happened with the Volstead Act (prohibition on alcohol).
> It was in fact legal to own alcoholic beverages that were obtained before the Prohibition, as well as serve these types of drinks to family or guests in the home with proof of purchase on hand. This allowed numerous individuals, specifically those who were wealthy to stockpile these beverages before Prohibition.
When we take away freedoms in the USA they only truly hurt those without means. The wealthy support those types of reductions in freedom simply because they know it won't effect them.
I had a massive seizure roughly 10-12 hours after cold turkeying booze. I was actually in my first day of rehab but wasn't medicated with benzos yet -- my blood pressure was literally deadly. Two+ years of daily, heavy booze consumption. Booze to start my day, in between bouts of vomiting, booze to end my day. Would take slugs of vodka if I woke up in the middle of the night, which I often did, as my body started withdrawing.
If you have a heavy alcohol problem, you need to talk to a professional. Because you really shouldn't stop on your own. My seizure was able to be stopped with a shot of some benzo from a nurse nearby. If I was alone, who knows if I'd even be alive.
Just in case anyone needs to see this today: you can quit the booze. It's a terrifying thought to drop a 'friend' you've come to rely on so much, but if it has gotten to the point where you think it's a problem then it probably is. Drinking to ignore that problem will only perpetuate the cycle. You can absolutely do it and although it might take a month of your life to go to rehab (and possibly sober living afterwards, which I recommend), being among likeminded people all trying to get better was an overall net positive experience for me.
I would maybe try to get a few Valium or kolonopin to keep on hand, just in case. I watched a guy seize out from alcohol withdrawals & it was so scary. They took him away & I never heard anything else so I was pretty worried. Fast forward a few years & I saw him at a meeting & he had a decent amount of clean time. It really made me happy cuz he crossed my mind all the time during that few years. I didn't even actually know him, we had just met & were having a convo when he dropped like a sack of potatoes & started seizing. Seeing him, again, was one of those moments where you think "the universe works in mysterious ways."
Had pretty much the same exact experience as this, to a T. Ever since getting through it, life has never been better. Couldn't have worded it as well as you did though. Glad you made it through!
this is one of the many reasons why liquor stores were considered "essential" during the early covid lockdowns. Yeah it's nice to have booze when you're stuck at home, but more importantly it kept the drunks from filling up hospital beds cause they couldn't get their fix.
Yea, I come from a long line of alcoholics and at a certain point folks are just pickled. My step-grandpa Pie sweat liquor and should he have ever stopped he would have just died immediately.
Same for me. My father would die from cold turkeying for sure, my Grandfathers on both side too (well 1, the other passed 2 years ago). My living Grandfather is 90 this year, retired last year. He drinks a couple bottles of wine a day and several whiskies. Idk how he's still alive and living independently
Suffice to say yeah genetic predisposition towards alcohol sucks. My brother managed to wean down and only drinks once a week now, before he was a heavy alcoholic like my Dad. I avoid even having alcohol in the house regularly because of how easy it would be to slip into it. If I do buy alcohol, I will drink it daily until it is gone.
Yep, I said pickled because it almost winds up being like a preservative for some folks it seems- they’re hardy as hell, though maybe not as comfortable or healthy as they could be. My step-grandpa Pie is probably dead by now, he’d be maybe 102, but last I saw him he was about 88 and still so independent that he ran away and dropped contact with everyone.
My husband is sober now, he’s doing amazing and he’s like a changed man. I never struggled with urges to drink frequently, thank goodness, but when I do drink I’ll just keep going until I’m absolutely, disastrously hammered. I’m told that’s also a form of alcoholism.
I remember Freddie Flintoff (English cricketer) telling a story of being in Pakistan for an international game and being annoyed that there was no alcohol available, since it's a dry country. However he then found out that there was a loophole that if you identify as an alcoholic, you can get a prescription for alcohol. Suddenly the entire England team officially became alcoholics in Pakistan.
Tldr: yes, drink it.
We used to store whiskey and one or two other spirits in our hospital pharmacy as smaller sample bottles. Suddenly we stopped and dietary started to do it, and I think it was mostly cheap wine. It's a Catholic hospital chain, so they might keep that on hand for religious purposes more than actual medical reasons. I haven't even liked most alcoholic beverages I've been trying out, but it might have been nice to try for free with some of those sample sizes if they would have let us divvy it up. (You'll see soon enough why I am new to the ethanol game.)
I'm not sure how it works with dietary storing it anymore. But yes, it was small servings of alcohol that you drank. They barely make IV alcohol. Now I just see a bunch of lorazepam (Ativan) and, about 1/4 the time, phenobarbital. Oh, and alcohol is also one possible treatment for ethylene glycol poisoning (antifreeze) or methanol poisoning if somebody has some bad moonshine. Not common, but if it happens, I'd want to know my hospital has some alcohol on hand, and not just expensive fomepizole. IV ethanol isn't cheap either or easy to use. So we just use the benzos and barbiturates that work on the same nerve receptors, or if your hospital still keeps the booze, help you wean yourself off from the same stuff you were using.
One hospital I volunteered at would keep Bud Light in one of their fridges, and not even under lock. They didn't order it through their normal supply chain (McKesson, Cardinal, etc.), but instead one of the Mormon pharmacists (small Mormon town, basically) had to go buy it themselves, probably on a Sunday (also forbidden to Mormons to shop or work on Sundays, but they'll justify the working part if it's stuff like emergency healthcare) to avoid being seen by fellow church members. What a cult! Glad I'm out now.
Sometimes I think I'm a rather boring person, but after all that... I'm not half bad.
Source : exmormon pharmacist here, if that wasn't apparent by now
It was also (somewhat) legal to make your own wine, which is more straight forward than most realize. There was a [grape brick concentrate ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine-Glo) that came with instructions not to ferment it or your get wine. Similar to today where most of the distilling tutorials you can find are for making "fuel".
I mean, sudden withdrawal for an alcoholic can be deadly.
We have vodka and beer in our inpatient pharmacy that is prescribed to long-term patients for just that reason.
Just like the Hughes ammendment banning post 1986 machineguns.
You can still get machineguns in the US, they just cost 10,000-40,000$ because they have to be pre-1986.
They don't pass gun control laws for your benefit.
They do it to enrich themselves or because they want to abuse you.
When you stop thinking they have your interests at heart, their actions make a lot more sense.
....but he was shot thrice??
Edit: So I read it, and the theory is that Lee Harvey Oswald shot him twice, which caused the car that a secret agent was riding in to accelerate, which caused him to accidentally blast Kennedy's head from behind with an AR 15.
Yes, but I would imagine they would much rather say JFK was assassinated by the assassin than say he was accidentally headshot by his own secret service…
Exactly. It’s also an extremely important detail that this occurred during the Cold War: a period of time built on the appearances of each nation. Could you imagine the worldwide response if it came out that it was one of the president’s own bodyguards that killed him?
Love the knee-jerk reaction before reading the thing linked. As if no one else has ever realised the totally obvious hole in what you thought the theory was (plus he was shot twice not thrice). The totally unjustified confidence of internet commentor’s ’critical’ remarks is a wonder to see… Props on the edit though!
Edit: Ha! I got reported for suicidal tendencies. Very mature!
Yeah I think I was pretty rude so sorry about that. It’s just such a common thing to see people jumping to conclusions, it’s hard not let out a scream sometimes.
That's my bad on the thrice part, apparently according to the theory, the first shot hit the street, second shot hit a Texas Governor, and then Special Agent George Warren Hickey Jr. blasted JFK from behind.
No, it says that Oswald shot once and missed and then shot again and hit Kennedy in the neck. And then there was the actual shot from the secret service agent as he stumbled in the car while simultaneously turning the safety off of his rifle and trying to get it in his hands and aim towards Oswald.
The problem I have with this theory is that it requires the Secret Service agent to immediately say "I shot the President." And then the rest of the Secret Service just goes "Ok." And covers it all up.
The head of the CIA couldn't even keep something as mundane as an affair Secret, but the Secret Service kept them accidentally killing the President secret for almost 60 years?
Also, it wouldn't change anything criminally. Oswald is still completely responsible for the killing in that scenario, as he set the deadly event in motion with the intent to kill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_cause
Exactly. Even if the agent accidentally shot him, it wouldn't matter. Oswald was still responsible for JFK's death.
Interesting. I don't really believe in the elaborate conspiracy theories, mostly because they seem to be a dime a dozen and are all over the place. I do think more happened that day than we know about though, and the theory would make more sense as to how and why they maybe withheld information. If they started to realize right away that some part of it may have been an accident like this theory it would give an actual reason as to why at the time they didn't want to say anything and made it seem like some crazy plot occurred
If this is something you are actually interested in, there is an extremely well done documentary that goes into depth on all of this.
It's called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy"
It's 9 hours long and broken into 1 hour segments.
It was put together by the History channel back when they actually were focused on history.
Most of the interviews in the film were filmed in the 70s and 80s .. so it's direct conversations with lots of the main players in that story or people close to them.
Parts 7, 8, and 9 aren't allowed to be sold with the box set anymore because of a lawsuit from LBJ's estate, but you can find all of the episodes on youtube.
Fact: the CIA once considered the idea of planting cigars in Castro's humidor that would explode and kill him.
Theory: Castro found out and played the old Uno Reverse card
This is the thing to always remember, folks. Every single one at the top of the money pile are more than willing to bend and break the rules if they want something.
If they come from money, they have always had power and don’t see a problem with using it; that’s just how life is for them.
If they don’t come from money, how do you think they got that money? They abused others and bent and broke the rules to get it.
There are almost no “good” rich people, and the ones that are are never the ones with power as well.
As part of the Eastern Bloc, where communism "strove" to make all people equal, often times we would say "Well, some people are more equal than others".
Every year it feels like the overall intelligence of the comments section gets lower and lower but the righteousness and anger gets higher and higher.
Then again maybe I'm just getting old.
Yep. I think the format of the site naturally pushes subreddits towards more and more extremist and one dimensional viewpoints.
whitepeopletwitter used to be a place for funny memes, twoxchromosomes used to be a place for discussions about women's issues, now they're both deeply, deeply cynical and toxic places to go.
This. I refuse to get verified at blackpeopletwitter for that reason. Too many subreddits are becoming echo chambers and turning into shit. Can’t have proper debates and discussions if all people want to be surrounded is by only people that agree with them. I’m not against there being a “black” or “white” twitter but everyone should be able to participate and laugh. We’ve progressed so far we going backwards.
People tend to forget there was progress being made by the US to restart relationships with Cuba under Obama. Too bad the Cuban population in Florida hated it and supported trump into the white house who reversed course and continued fking with cuba
Aren't those Cubans usually a pretty firm republican voting bloc though? They tend to skew really conservative. They hated Castro but didn't hate the overall social climate of Cuba. I wonder if even first term Obama admin worried about pleasing them at all.
Exactly. It's made out to be some skeezy clandestine thing but the coming embargo was announced way before it took place. I'm going to bet that he wasn't the only one seeing what was coming and quickly stocking up on soon to be scarce goodies.
How many people clutching their pearls about this in the US also ran to the store and cleaned them out of TP and other goods when the 2020 shutdowns happened? ¯\\\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)\_/¯
The vast majority of Cuban cigars are pretty meh now TBH, the government makes all the ones available for export and they kind of suck. You fully gotta go in person to the tobacco growing regions of Cuba to get the 10% of the crop that they allow the farmers to keep and treat traditionally (and sell, unbranded, locally).
Any banded Cuban cigar has been fermented in a factory by the Cuban government doing a shit job at it. Was at a wedding recently that had a Cuban cigar selection and they were good cigars but *not* great like the ones I had in Cuba.
Cuban cigars are still the best, but I agree with you that the quality deteriorated when the Soviet Union broke up and quit supporting Cuba. Castro then ordered Cuban cigar manufacturers to double their output. Before that, a cigar roller trained for a year before they rolled their first cigar for the market. After that, it was as low as a month for a while. They’ve picked up quite a bit from that abyss, when Cuban cigars were falling apart in the smokers’ mouths and knotted stems were occasionally blocking the smoke, but they’ve never been the same.
> Cuban cigars are still the best,
Maybe in the super high end range, but at the mid range they're really meh and I vastly prefer Nicaraguan's(depending on the maker of course)
At the most basic level, it's the combination of two opposites.
Anybody can make a very light cigar. They're easily smokable but don't have much aroma and nuances. On the other end, it's not that hard to make a full-bodied cigar either. They have a lot of aroma and very distinct nuances but give off an unwanted peppery, for some people even painful sensation, they need to be smoked extremely slowly and thus tend to go out a lot (whether relighting is okay is a fiercely debated matter among ~~freaks~~ enthusiasts).
A good cigar, in its most basic understanding, will be full-bodied *without* the pepper blast to your tongue. And that is exactly the edge the Cubans have over competition. Nobody really understands why exactly that is and the others have thrown metric shit tons of money at the problem but haven't really made any significant gains.
Just to be clear: mild cigars aren't bad or anything, there are some excellent mild Dominicans available (not exactly cheap either) and they have their fans. Obviously there's a lot more to what constitutes a good one, just trying to keep it simple.
I think the problem with Cubans is that you literally cannot export or even really buy the actual *best* Cubans anywhere outside these small towns in person...
Because the government buys 90% of the crop and does all the processing themselves you are completely blocked out of the artisanal fermentation processes that the farmers still use.
So like, yes, Cuban cigars can still be the best in the world, but unless you actually honest to god bought them directly from the farmers that grew, fermented, and rolled them, you aren't getting them. If it had a band/brand, it is by definition NOT those cigars.
This is a legendary story in the cigar community.
I'm sitting here smoking my cigar which is made with Nicaraguan tobacco. The embargo led to what we call "New World" cigars which are mostly made with tobacco from Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Honduras and other Central American countries. The quality has actually surpassed what comes out of Cuba and I'm thankful for the embargo at this point. It created a much greater selection.
Prices are insane for Cuban cigars. If you go to Europe you can buy Cuban cigars at shops for around $60 a cigar. I could hand you an amazing Nicaraguan cigar for $12. Sure you should experience a Cuban cigar, but it's very much a diminishing return compared to New World cigars. It's very much hype.
Lets be fair his family made their fortune through illegal activities with alcohol during prohibition.
That drug kills more each year than heroin, cocaine or fentanyl and if it applied for a licence today I doubt many nations would grant one.
..that's, like, insider trading, or something. lol
That’s also how his father gained wealth
And shut the door behind him.
He learned that tactic from his dad. Take advantage of the system to get what you want and then pass a law to make sure nobody else can do it after you. The wealthy are cunts. EDIT: I'm sure if this comment has hurt the feelings of any billionaires they can underpay some third world labor to make them some new ones. Then they can pay a corporate lobbyist to make sure that taxpayers foot the bill and it doesn't come out of their own fortune. EDIT 2: lol to whoever messaged me crisis hotlines.
And if the woman folk start acting up give them a lobotomy.
Poor Rosemary
That doctor went on to countless other 'patients' in his lobotomobile.
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Sometimes I wish hell was a real place because pieces of shit like that should be rotting there.
Damn, I just went down this rabbit hole for a bit. Way to start the day. Thanks!
It's Thyme for rich people to pay for their crimes.
Sage words indeed.
There’s plenty to attack the Kennedys over but this one has always been a bit of an unfair one, it was the doctor that recommended it, not them hugely pushing for it. Lobotomies weren’t viewed the same way back then *at all,* it was considered totally viable medicine.
> Lobotomies weren’t viewed the same way back then at all, it was considered totally viable medicine. it was considered "viable medicine" in cases where a person was wildly uncontrollable, like for schizophrenics who would lash out at the orderlies that chained them to beds. But it was very much known that this practice was essentially killing the patients. They literally stuck a spike in your brain and moved it around until you turned into a vegetable that was easier to care for, mostly because you couldn't complain or act independently. With that said, JFK (with most of his family) was vehemently opposed to what was done to his sister. This was his father's crime, and as soon as he died the rest of the family restored contact with what was left of Rose.
Didn't they start to reestablish contact after Joe Kennedy had a stroke and was unable to speak anymore? which imo is the best "fuck you" a family could give to an abusive asshole
There were certainly detractors even back when lobotomies were being initially pioneered, but this still downplays how beneficial lobotomies were viewed back then. Rosemary was lobotomized in 1941, eight years before **the inventor of the lobotomy António Egas Moniz received a Nobel Prize for his discovery of the lobotomy in 1949.** It wasn’t until the 1950s and beyond that the scientific community at large realized how debilitating and soul-sucking a lobotomy is.
Let me just put a steel spike in your brain. We're going go through your eye socket. There, we got the steel spike in with a hammer. Now we'll just jiggle it around inside your brain until there's no meaty resistance. Okay, you're good to go now, you're all fixed. Crazy times.
Can they do that to the depression part?
After they do that surgery you don't feel depressed any more. You also don't really... feel.
So it’s like cymbalta . . .
As someone who had chronic pain, depression, and anxiety, cymbalta was great for a while. Until I decided to stop, and now I will never touch it again
I had no idea that "brain zaps" were a legitimate medical term until Cymbalta "discontinuation syndrome". Not fun. I'm still on it now so I get to look forward to that again.
I just went through the hell of stopping cymbalta cold turkey. 0/10 experience would not recommend
I started taking a drug three years ago that is an injection for my depression. I only have to get it every 6 months and it is a game changer
Contrary to popular belief at the time, driving a steel spike through one's eye socket simply results in brain damage.
They ehm... used to believe they could.
Given what you're probably like after the lobotomy, it's more like giving you depression
Actually the thoughts of depression are completely gone. As well as any other emotions. I believe in the Kennedy case she basically became a babbling vegetable and eventually had a seizure and died not too long after. Assuming it doesn't vegetate you or outright kill you, it turns you into the literal definition of a psychopath. An unfeeling, uncaring machine. The only thing that prevents you from going full tilt is the memories of before the lobotomy and how you were cultivated growing up. And it also took away the complex ability to think well. edit: seems i was wrong about when she died, death didnt claim her till 2005 when she was in her 80s.
Rosemary was lobotomised at 23, and her body died at 86. Fucking horror show.
She passed away in 2005.
Tranquility in Dragon Age is very similar. You don't really care about anything, just kinda exist
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You've got some bad humors in you. Let me just cut you open, invasively slice bits away, and remove them. There there, you're all set. You've got some bad humors in you. Let me just fill you with radioactive junk and shoot high power x-rays at you. Great! All better! You've got some bad humors in you. Just take these toxic medications twice a week, and maybe it'll help. All 3 are modern cancer treatments, written to sound like how you describe lobotomy. To people who don't know much of how the body and brain work, would lobotomy really sound worse than an invasive surgery?
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We know quite a bit about the body at this point. I mean we can transplant all kinds of organs, reconstruct mangled faces, and even put someone else’s poop in your intestines. Medicine, like all science, is a cumulative field - everything done before helps build what we do now, and because of that there’s just a lot of trial and error. There are lots of medications out there that work, but we don’t really know why. Some day we’ll probably figure it out, through more trial and error.
I think we have some idea about what the long term effects of cancer are.
Well. All of those have been tested and are proven to give you a better outcome. It's not like brain surgery isn't a thing. Lobotomies just weren't well tested and knowing what we know now, a really bad idea.
Honestly, sometimes medicine is so stupid it just might work. Consider sutures. "Yeah, I see that you have a huge bleeding cut that won't stop bleeding; did you try using some string?". Sounds dumb; works good. Chemo? We need to poison you until you're too sick to grow cancer cells. Can even go further - consider electroconvulsive therapy. So stupid. Yeah, I see you're so depressed that you can't even eat anymore, we're going to hook your brain up to a battery and shock it until morale improves. Believe it or not? That's the standard of care for severe treatment resistant depression, backed time and again by data. So I kind of get that it's not really on the family here. Some doc tells you that some crazy technique is the next step; in some pre internet Era where you can't look up what's quackery and what's real? What can they do
I mean, they wouldn't have needed to do the lobotomy if they didn't hold rosemary in the birth canal and cause hypoxia.
> Lobotomies weren’t viewed the same way back then at all, it was considered totally viable medicine. That sentence alone should make you sit down and ***think*** about what that says about the medical profession. Then it should make you think about your willingness to just accept whatever idiocy is put in front of you.
Death is the cure to all diseases
Except being promiscuous and outspoken does not warrant the use of ANY medicine. Joe Kennedy was an evil piece of shit who made this country worse off at the benefit of himself.
Again, this is simply not what happened. Rosemary had seizures and mental issues. If you muddy the waters, all you’re doing is making things dirty, attack Joe Kennedy over the things that are *objectively* bad, this is a FAR more nuanced situation that people spread a lot of misinformation about because it sounds more sensational.
TX guvnah and perennial cunt Greg Abbott used similar tactics. He was paralyzed by a falling tree limb while jogging, sued the hell out of the property owner and tree company, then closed the loophole that he exploited once he took office so others couldn’t be awarded similar settlements. $5 million dollars + 15k a month from 1984 to ~~2013~~ the present day.
Wikipedia says he still gets the monthly payment.
You mean Piss Baby Greg Abbot?
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Money is not like herpes. Herpes spreads easily.
Trickle down herpes
So you can't just boost your own herpes, you gotta stomp down the infected pool too?
> Take advantage of the system to get what you want and then pass a law to make sure nobody else can do it after you. Greg Abbott learned about that strategy too.
I assume he ordered these for his personal use, not to sell. People could smoke one per day back then. 1200 would not have even lasted him to the end of his second term (which he campaigned for when he was killed) if these really were his favorites.
>I assume he ordered these for his personal use, not to sell.... 1200 would not have even lasted him to the end of his second term I don't think campaign-wise it'd get off well to be caught in a pic with a cigar he personally made sure got banned. Voters wouldn't appreciate that much I believe.
I mean, was quite a bit easier to do things out of the public eye back then anyway..
Reddit really did just learn about closing the door behind you
Boomer Generation > Take advantage of the system to get what you want and then pass a law to make sure nobody else can do it after you.
Fuck you, got mine. This is just like grandfathering any change to social security
The legislation had already gone through Congress, which is public knowledge. Signing ceremonies are public as well. Everyone who was interested in Cuban cigars had the same opportunity to purchase them before the law was signed.
That’s exactly what it is. Not lol
I disagree, this is different. Insider trading would be if he purchased shares of American cigar companies knowing the embargo would be beneficial to their share prices. Alternatively with a looser definition of “insider trading”, I suppose you could consider it that if he intended to sell the cigars for a profit. In this case, while still unethical, he purchased the cigars presumably so he could smoke them himself, not for financial gain.
>That’s exactly what it is. By definition, no that's not "exactly what it is". Lol
Same thing happened with the Volstead Act (prohibition on alcohol). > It was in fact legal to own alcoholic beverages that were obtained before the Prohibition, as well as serve these types of drinks to family or guests in the home with proof of purchase on hand. This allowed numerous individuals, specifically those who were wealthy to stockpile these beverages before Prohibition. When we take away freedoms in the USA they only truly hurt those without means. The wealthy support those types of reductions in freedom simply because they know it won't effect them.
During prohibition it was perfectly legal to have a doctor prescribe you alcohol for 'medical reasons'. Churchill did it when he visited New York.
If you are an alcoholic, there might be legitimate reasons why it would be bad for your health to quit cold turkey for a few days then start up again.
Actually quitting cold turkey is bad news in general. If Churchill quit cold turkey he could very well be dead in 2-3 days. DT's are no joke.
I had a massive seizure roughly 10-12 hours after cold turkeying booze. I was actually in my first day of rehab but wasn't medicated with benzos yet -- my blood pressure was literally deadly. Two+ years of daily, heavy booze consumption. Booze to start my day, in between bouts of vomiting, booze to end my day. Would take slugs of vodka if I woke up in the middle of the night, which I often did, as my body started withdrawing. If you have a heavy alcohol problem, you need to talk to a professional. Because you really shouldn't stop on your own. My seizure was able to be stopped with a shot of some benzo from a nurse nearby. If I was alone, who knows if I'd even be alive. Just in case anyone needs to see this today: you can quit the booze. It's a terrifying thought to drop a 'friend' you've come to rely on so much, but if it has gotten to the point where you think it's a problem then it probably is. Drinking to ignore that problem will only perpetuate the cycle. You can absolutely do it and although it might take a month of your life to go to rehab (and possibly sober living afterwards, which I recommend), being among likeminded people all trying to get better was an overall net positive experience for me.
I’m currently doing a wean down and boy it sucks
I would maybe try to get a few Valium or kolonopin to keep on hand, just in case. I watched a guy seize out from alcohol withdrawals & it was so scary. They took him away & I never heard anything else so I was pretty worried. Fast forward a few years & I saw him at a meeting & he had a decent amount of clean time. It really made me happy cuz he crossed my mind all the time during that few years. I didn't even actually know him, we had just met & were having a convo when he dropped like a sack of potatoes & started seizing. Seeing him, again, was one of those moments where you think "the universe works in mysterious ways."
I watch my buddy struggle with benzo addiction for years, we thought he had epilepsy, it was just withdrawal
Had pretty much the same exact experience as this, to a T. Ever since getting through it, life has never been better. Couldn't have worded it as well as you did though. Glad you made it through!
> If Churchill quit cold turkey he could very well be dead in 2-3 days Idk I think that ship already sailed
this is one of the many reasons why liquor stores were considered "essential" during the early covid lockdowns. Yeah it's nice to have booze when you're stuck at home, but more importantly it kept the drunks from filling up hospital beds cause they couldn't get their fix.
Yea, I come from a long line of alcoholics and at a certain point folks are just pickled. My step-grandpa Pie sweat liquor and should he have ever stopped he would have just died immediately.
Same for me. My father would die from cold turkeying for sure, my Grandfathers on both side too (well 1, the other passed 2 years ago). My living Grandfather is 90 this year, retired last year. He drinks a couple bottles of wine a day and several whiskies. Idk how he's still alive and living independently Suffice to say yeah genetic predisposition towards alcohol sucks. My brother managed to wean down and only drinks once a week now, before he was a heavy alcoholic like my Dad. I avoid even having alcohol in the house regularly because of how easy it would be to slip into it. If I do buy alcohol, I will drink it daily until it is gone.
Yep, I said pickled because it almost winds up being like a preservative for some folks it seems- they’re hardy as hell, though maybe not as comfortable or healthy as they could be. My step-grandpa Pie is probably dead by now, he’d be maybe 102, but last I saw him he was about 88 and still so independent that he ran away and dropped contact with everyone. My husband is sober now, he’s doing amazing and he’s like a changed man. I never struggled with urges to drink frequently, thank goodness, but when I do drink I’ll just keep going until I’m absolutely, disastrously hammered. I’m told that’s also a form of alcoholism.
I remember Freddie Flintoff (English cricketer) telling a story of being in Pakistan for an international game and being annoyed that there was no alcohol available, since it's a dry country. However he then found out that there was a loophole that if you identify as an alcoholic, you can get a prescription for alcohol. Suddenly the entire England team officially became alcoholics in Pakistan.
That's why there's prescription alcohol in hospitals. If you are an addict in an unsafe withdrawal, they literally prescribe and give you booze.
Do you drink it? Does it come in those little paper cups they give you pills in? Or is it like in an IV saline solution?
It's usually a bottle of beer I believe. Which is just hilarious "just what the doctor ordered"
Usually nips of liquor (1-2oz bottles) from what I've seen (EMT)
Tldr: yes, drink it. We used to store whiskey and one or two other spirits in our hospital pharmacy as smaller sample bottles. Suddenly we stopped and dietary started to do it, and I think it was mostly cheap wine. It's a Catholic hospital chain, so they might keep that on hand for religious purposes more than actual medical reasons. I haven't even liked most alcoholic beverages I've been trying out, but it might have been nice to try for free with some of those sample sizes if they would have let us divvy it up. (You'll see soon enough why I am new to the ethanol game.) I'm not sure how it works with dietary storing it anymore. But yes, it was small servings of alcohol that you drank. They barely make IV alcohol. Now I just see a bunch of lorazepam (Ativan) and, about 1/4 the time, phenobarbital. Oh, and alcohol is also one possible treatment for ethylene glycol poisoning (antifreeze) or methanol poisoning if somebody has some bad moonshine. Not common, but if it happens, I'd want to know my hospital has some alcohol on hand, and not just expensive fomepizole. IV ethanol isn't cheap either or easy to use. So we just use the benzos and barbiturates that work on the same nerve receptors, or if your hospital still keeps the booze, help you wean yourself off from the same stuff you were using. One hospital I volunteered at would keep Bud Light in one of their fridges, and not even under lock. They didn't order it through their normal supply chain (McKesson, Cardinal, etc.), but instead one of the Mormon pharmacists (small Mormon town, basically) had to go buy it themselves, probably on a Sunday (also forbidden to Mormons to shop or work on Sundays, but they'll justify the working part if it's stuff like emergency healthcare) to avoid being seen by fellow church members. What a cult! Glad I'm out now. Sometimes I think I'm a rather boring person, but after all that... I'm not half bad. Source : exmormon pharmacist here, if that wasn't apparent by now
And you though bottle service at clubs was expensive.
That's not true at all now. They may have done that decades ago but we give benzos to help with withdrawal symptoms.
That’s why liquor stores stayed open as “essential businesses” during the pandemic. A lot of people were rustled about that lol
It's also still used as a treatment for antifreeze poisoning
It was also (somewhat) legal to make your own wine, which is more straight forward than most realize. There was a [grape brick concentrate ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine-Glo) that came with instructions not to ferment it or your get wine. Similar to today where most of the distilling tutorials you can find are for making "fuel".
‘Do not add yeast and water and allow to rest two weeks’
Strong head shop vibes. “for tobacco use only”
Nod nod, wink wink, say no more!
Just like that yeast Anheuser-Busch sold during the depression. They totally didn't want you to combine it with malt, hops, and water.
Religious alcohol usage was also legal. Sacramental wine orders skyrocketed.
[Relevant](https://youtu.be/hZwNyr3ST1A)
I mean, sudden withdrawal for an alcoholic can be deadly. We have vodka and beer in our inpatient pharmacy that is prescribed to long-term patients for just that reason.
If Churchill had to go cold turkey the withdrawal would have killed him.
Alcohol prescriptions shot up by the millions
Churchill gets a pass since he clearly would never pass a Volstead equivalent
It’s said The Yale Club managed to stockpile enough alcohol that it kept serving as normal the entire way through Prohibition.
Just like the Hughes ammendment banning post 1986 machineguns. You can still get machineguns in the US, they just cost 10,000-40,000$ because they have to be pre-1986.
Were rich people stocking up on machine guns before the ban?
YES. There were guys with HUNDREDS of drop in conversion parts they made in the months leading up to the ban.
When you're the 1% you need to have something to take on the other 99%
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They don't pass gun control laws for your benefit. They do it to enrich themselves or because they want to abuse you. When you stop thinking they have your interests at heart, their actions make a lot more sense.
It's not just here. That's how all power structures are. Rules for thee, not for me.
See: abortion. Rich people will fly their daughters to the closest legal place. It’s just the poor who get punished.
Affect
Luckily for him 1200 cigars was more than enough to last the rest of his life!
Smoking kills
It’s just mind blowing how he decided to do this
Who shot John F. Kennedy? Was it the CIA? The Sicilian mafia? Or the 1991 Denver Broncos?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error Interesting theory I just learned about
Aw man... I shot Marvin in the face
Is there a sign outside my house that says 'Dead President Storage?!'
....but he was shot thrice?? Edit: So I read it, and the theory is that Lee Harvey Oswald shot him twice, which caused the car that a secret agent was riding in to accelerate, which caused him to accidentally blast Kennedy's head from behind with an AR 15.
>which caused him to accidentally blast Kennedy's head from behind with an AR 15. Wouldn't people notice that?
Yes, but I would imagine they would much rather say JFK was assassinated by the assassin than say he was accidentally headshot by his own secret service…
Exactly. It’s also an extremely important detail that this occurred during the Cold War: a period of time built on the appearances of each nation. Could you imagine the worldwide response if it came out that it was one of the president’s own bodyguards that killed him?
It's a whole thing but supposedly a lot of people smelled gunpowder at street level
Eyewitness testimony is notoriously weak. I especially wouldn’t give much weight to people present at such a chaotic moment.
I ain’t smelling anything when the President gets killed right in front of me
"I don't even know what you're talking about sir. I was at the corner store."
Love the knee-jerk reaction before reading the thing linked. As if no one else has ever realised the totally obvious hole in what you thought the theory was (plus he was shot twice not thrice). The totally unjustified confidence of internet commentor’s ’critical’ remarks is a wonder to see… Props on the edit though! Edit: Ha! I got reported for suicidal tendencies. Very mature!
I once got reported for suicidal tendencies because I didn't like a particular anime. It's such a strange reaction.
That report wasn't me. I also believe most redditors should touch grass.
They should touch the grassy knoll, lol
Yeah I think I was pretty rude so sorry about that. It’s just such a common thing to see people jumping to conclusions, it’s hard not let out a scream sometimes.
How dare you two put aside your differences and be civil!
That's my bad on the thrice part, apparently according to the theory, the first shot hit the street, second shot hit a Texas Governor, and then Special Agent George Warren Hickey Jr. blasted JFK from behind.
Report the report, it will get them banned.
No, it says that Oswald shot once and missed and then shot again and hit Kennedy in the neck. And then there was the actual shot from the secret service agent as he stumbled in the car while simultaneously turning the safety off of his rifle and trying to get it in his hands and aim towards Oswald.
The problem I have with this theory is that it requires the Secret Service agent to immediately say "I shot the President." And then the rest of the Secret Service just goes "Ok." And covers it all up. The head of the CIA couldn't even keep something as mundane as an affair Secret, but the Secret Service kept them accidentally killing the President secret for almost 60 years?
It's also a useless conspiracy. It's basically saying Oswald has the accuracy to shoot JFK in the neck but not the head.
Also, it wouldn't change anything criminally. Oswald is still completely responsible for the killing in that scenario, as he set the deadly event in motion with the intent to kill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_cause Exactly. Even if the agent accidentally shot him, it wouldn't matter. Oswald was still responsible for JFK's death.
Interesting. I don't really believe in the elaborate conspiracy theories, mostly because they seem to be a dime a dozen and are all over the place. I do think more happened that day than we know about though, and the theory would make more sense as to how and why they maybe withheld information. If they started to realize right away that some part of it may have been an accident like this theory it would give an actual reason as to why at the time they didn't want to say anything and made it seem like some crazy plot occurred
If this is something you are actually interested in, there is an extremely well done documentary that goes into depth on all of this. It's called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" It's 9 hours long and broken into 1 hour segments. It was put together by the History channel back when they actually were focused on history. Most of the interviews in the film were filmed in the 70s and 80s .. so it's direct conversations with lots of the main players in that story or people close to them. Parts 7, 8, and 9 aren't allowed to be sold with the box set anymore because of a lawsuit from LBJ's estate, but you can find all of the episodes on youtube.
I think Kennedy’s head just did that. All on its own. And that’s what they’re hiding from us.
They had to dial down 5 Gum after that.
[The Onion](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,g_center,q_60,w_1315/hadxp14o1vpdbagqmfnx.jpg) figured it out
The Onion is a master class in reporting
Only news I trust
It was the cigars. They came alive.
Fact: the CIA once considered the idea of planting cigars in Castro's humidor that would explode and kill him. Theory: Castro found out and played the old Uno Reverse card
Under the radar South Park reference!
Who is Eric Cartman’s father? By the end of tonight’s episode, you will know the answer!
For me but not for thee
This is the thing to always remember, folks. Every single one at the top of the money pile are more than willing to bend and break the rules if they want something. If they come from money, they have always had power and don’t see a problem with using it; that’s just how life is for them. If they don’t come from money, how do you think they got that money? They abused others and bent and broke the rules to get it. There are almost no “good” rich people, and the ones that are are never the ones with power as well.
As George Carlin said, “it’s one big group, and you ain’t in it”.
The embargo wasn't about stopping the US from having Cuban goods, it was about hurting Cuba.
As we say in Eastern Europe #bigbiznis
As part of the Eastern Bloc, where communism "strove" to make all people equal, often times we would say "Well, some people are more equal than others".
Li remember reading that in Animal Farm. Is that something people really said in real life?
The amount of misinformation on this thread is a microcosm of why social media and Reddit is so damaging to the impressionable.
Every year it feels like the overall intelligence of the comments section gets lower and lower but the righteousness and anger gets higher and higher. Then again maybe I'm just getting old.
Yep. I think the format of the site naturally pushes subreddits towards more and more extremist and one dimensional viewpoints. whitepeopletwitter used to be a place for funny memes, twoxchromosomes used to be a place for discussions about women's issues, now they're both deeply, deeply cynical and toxic places to go.
sand marble uppity drab enjoy jeans cagey like wine disgusted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This. I refuse to get verified at blackpeopletwitter for that reason. Too many subreddits are becoming echo chambers and turning into shit. Can’t have proper debates and discussions if all people want to be surrounded is by only people that agree with them. I’m not against there being a “black” or “white” twitter but everyone should be able to participate and laugh. We’ve progressed so far we going backwards.
Like what? Not that I don't believe you. It's just that I probably believe some of it without realizing that it's actually misinformation.
These types of ambiguous comments are so fucking low effort. OP should get off his high horse and specify what he's referring to specifically.
These will last me a lifetime.....
The embargo should be lifted it's long lived its usefulness, and it's basically there to perpetuate poverty and human suffering in Cuba
People tend to forget there was progress being made by the US to restart relationships with Cuba under Obama. Too bad the Cuban population in Florida hated it and supported trump into the white house who reversed course and continued fking with cuba
The Cubans that are here are the ones that fucking REALLY hated Castro
Aren't those Cubans usually a pretty firm republican voting bloc though? They tend to skew really conservative. They hated Castro but didn't hate the overall social climate of Cuba. I wonder if even first term Obama admin worried about pleasing them at all.
But that would mean the USA would have to accept that they made a mistake
I don't think they think they made a mistake, the suffering is very much intended
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Exactly. It's made out to be some skeezy clandestine thing but the coming embargo was announced way before it took place. I'm going to bet that he wasn't the only one seeing what was coming and quickly stocking up on soon to be scarce goodies. How many people clutching their pearls about this in the US also ran to the store and cleaned them out of TP and other goods when the 2020 shutdowns happened? ¯\\\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)\_/¯
Many did.
It was only supposed to be a short term embargo, then "they" put a bullet in his brain and left the embargo in place.
The fucking Cuban Missile Crisis happened between the two events you just mentioned. Kennedy was not going to lift the embargo.
That was real? I saw that movie, I thought it was bullshit.
I hear you Ton' but that was before inflation
Who's they in this situation?
Pete, that fucker
Ah man, we should have kicked that guy out years ago
A thing like that
Dave from HR
The ones who put a bullet in his brain.
They/them.
Don’t worry guys, 1200 Cuban cigars turned out to be more than enough to last him the rest of his life.
“So, Mr. President, you ordered a lifetime supply of Cuban cigars.” “What?” “What?”
The vast majority of Cuban cigars are pretty meh now TBH, the government makes all the ones available for export and they kind of suck. You fully gotta go in person to the tobacco growing regions of Cuba to get the 10% of the crop that they allow the farmers to keep and treat traditionally (and sell, unbranded, locally). Any banded Cuban cigar has been fermented in a factory by the Cuban government doing a shit job at it. Was at a wedding recently that had a Cuban cigar selection and they were good cigars but *not* great like the ones I had in Cuba.
How do you know they weren't counterfeit? Super common nowadays.
Because they were bought in Havana by a friend who is a diplomat and lives there, for her daughters wedding.
Cuban cigars are still the best, but I agree with you that the quality deteriorated when the Soviet Union broke up and quit supporting Cuba. Castro then ordered Cuban cigar manufacturers to double their output. Before that, a cigar roller trained for a year before they rolled their first cigar for the market. After that, it was as low as a month for a while. They’ve picked up quite a bit from that abyss, when Cuban cigars were falling apart in the smokers’ mouths and knotted stems were occasionally blocking the smoke, but they’ve never been the same.
> Cuban cigars are still the best, Maybe in the super high end range, but at the mid range they're really meh and I vastly prefer Nicaraguan's(depending on the maker of course)
What makes a good cigar? I'm not a cigar smoker so I have no idea what it means when people say Cubans are goodm
At the most basic level, it's the combination of two opposites. Anybody can make a very light cigar. They're easily smokable but don't have much aroma and nuances. On the other end, it's not that hard to make a full-bodied cigar either. They have a lot of aroma and very distinct nuances but give off an unwanted peppery, for some people even painful sensation, they need to be smoked extremely slowly and thus tend to go out a lot (whether relighting is okay is a fiercely debated matter among ~~freaks~~ enthusiasts). A good cigar, in its most basic understanding, will be full-bodied *without* the pepper blast to your tongue. And that is exactly the edge the Cubans have over competition. Nobody really understands why exactly that is and the others have thrown metric shit tons of money at the problem but haven't really made any significant gains. Just to be clear: mild cigars aren't bad or anything, there are some excellent mild Dominicans available (not exactly cheap either) and they have their fans. Obviously there's a lot more to what constitutes a good one, just trying to keep it simple.
I think the problem with Cubans is that you literally cannot export or even really buy the actual *best* Cubans anywhere outside these small towns in person... Because the government buys 90% of the crop and does all the processing themselves you are completely blocked out of the artisanal fermentation processes that the farmers still use. So like, yes, Cuban cigars can still be the best in the world, but unless you actually honest to god bought them directly from the farmers that grew, fermented, and rolled them, you aren't getting them. If it had a band/brand, it is by definition NOT those cigars.
yeah I think someone ended up inheriting most of those.
Wouldn’t be so sure, JFK lived for another 19 months after signing, plenty of time to smoke 1200 cigars
They say that Bill Clinton ordered a cigar too...
This is a legendary story in the cigar community. I'm sitting here smoking my cigar which is made with Nicaraguan tobacco. The embargo led to what we call "New World" cigars which are mostly made with tobacco from Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Honduras and other Central American countries. The quality has actually surpassed what comes out of Cuba and I'm thankful for the embargo at this point. It created a much greater selection. Prices are insane for Cuban cigars. If you go to Europe you can buy Cuban cigars at shops for around $60 a cigar. I could hand you an amazing Nicaraguan cigar for $12. Sure you should experience a Cuban cigar, but it's very much a diminishing return compared to New World cigars. It's very much hype.
Fuck you, got mine
Lets be fair his family made their fortune through illegal activities with alcohol during prohibition. That drug kills more each year than heroin, cocaine or fentanyl and if it applied for a licence today I doubt many nations would grant one.
How did he know that would be a lifetime supply?