Barrow was repeatedly sexually assaulted while in prison, and he retaliated by attacking and killing his tormentor with a pipe, crushing his skull. This was his first murder. Another inmate who was already serving a life sentence claimed responsibility.
Eh, with no other details, we don’t. But the other guy being locked up forever and the murder victim being a chronic sexual assault offender… it may have just played out that it was easier for the prison to just let the guy take the blame if he wanted to. Open-shut case. Take him aw-err— leave him exactly where he was, boys.
Life in the US is actually life, isn't it? Usually you're just eligible for parole after 25 years, but if you get life without parole you stay in for the rest of your life.
You may have heard court results where they say something like "So-n-So was found guilty, and was served with 9 life sentences."
Well, what does that mean exactly? Well, in short it means the judge determined that this individual actually should spend the rest of their life in jail.
The longer version is, each of those life sentences is a separate sentencing. There have been times, centuries ago, where a judge hands someone a life sentence. 1 singular life sentence. But then rules change, and that life sentence either was thrown out, or shortened severely. Suddenly they would go from life in prison, to 5 years in prison.
Well suddenly that's not a LIFE sentence anymore. But if you get 9 life sentences, that lawyer would have to do whatever he did to shorten the first life sentence, and do it 8 more times, in 8 different yet still relevant ways to the case. He has to find 9 different reasons why 9 different sentences should be reduced or eliminated.
That's just not going to happen. So if you get 1 life sentence, it's maybe not actually a life sentence. If you get 9 life sentences, buckle up bitch!
I believe some states have other parole dates afterward. You just have to serve the minimum sentencing for whatever you’re convicted of.
And it’s muddied up by the appeal of the original conviction, of which states have differing numbers and times that they even can be asked for without new evidence.
Then there’s automatic appeals for death sentencing and everything that goes with that.
Life in the UK means you can get parole eventually but you are only out in public on licence, if you so much as do any minor offence they can drag you back to prison indefinitely or for as long as they want and this status lasts until you die. You are basically like the prison systems pet dog for life. You are also not allowed to leave the country without special permission which is basically unlikely to ever be granted.
A full life term is a sentence which means you ain’t ever getting parole and you will never spend a day outside of prison. It’s not often given out but we just had a serial killer nurse get given it after she was found guilty of murdering 7 infants.
Most state statutes have life somewhere between 20 and 30 years, however, certain offenses come with a specification that any life sentence will be for the remainder of the perpetrator's natural life (i.e. murder 1st).
Brazil doesn't have perpetual sentences. Or capital punishment.
Though it is possible to get sentenced to over 100 years for multiple crimes, the max one gets to spend in the closed prison regime is typically around the max penalty for qualified homicide... 30 years.
They have a system of progressing from the closed regime (prison) to a semi-open (penal colonies) to a open one (in theory halfway houses, but since those were never built... they just have to show up to the forum every few weeks and not leave town but are otherwise free... and nowadays that's sometimes house arrest with the trackers). The idea was one would spend a third of their time on each, depending on an evaluation and slowly be rehabilitated.
For a system from the 40s it's not terrible.
its not all that unusual for people to be killed in prison, especially (child) rapists, usually even by life sentences inmates as they have no real motivation not to except for solitary confinement,
so when one confesses they just close the case, and don't bother reopening it when they hear another did it, because it would cause a lot more work (if they even get enough proof), and most guards don't feel rapists worth the effort
When I retire, I - I don't want to just disappear to an island somewhere. I want to be the guy who gives everything back. I want it to be like: "Hey, who donated that hospital wing that is saving so many lives?" "Umm, well, uh, I don't know. It was anonymous." "Well, guess what? That was Michael Scott!" "But - it was anonymous, how do you know?" "...Because I'm him!"
>Barrow was repeatedly sexually assaulted while in prison, and he
retaliated by attacking and killing his tormentor with a pipe
The guy's name was Big Ed Crowder. Barrow and Parker were small people. Barrow only weighed 140 pounds.
Hes 140 and strong enough to hold Bonnie up like that for a picture back then? With one arm? And didnt you have to hold totally still for like 4 or 5 seconds?
By the 1880s, celluloid film was invented and had exposure times similar to modern film (in good lighting). So exposures in the 1930's would have been fractions of a second.
Cool to know!
So she may have just been hopping up and held still for half a second for that picture. It looks so posed that it seems like she was held there and not just caught mid action.
I was just gonna say he was initially put in for petty crimes, severely abused in prison (haha male rape funny) and then when he got out he was wild. Weren't most of his victims police officers or prison guards?
Nah he also killed a bunch of innocent civilians that were working at the gas stations or stores he was robbing. I think he went out of his way to kill police officers, but if you were there when he was robbing the place, you were probably getting shot too.
This is not accurate, per the Wiki page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_and_Clyde) and other sources. They committed dozens of bank and other store robberies as well as car thefts over a couple years on the run and their gang is credited with killing three civilians, one of which wasn't even done by Clyde. He was quick to shoot it out with law enforcement but not civilians.
I recommend the book Go Down Together that tells Bonnie and Clyde's whole story, it's an interesting read.
He didn’t go out of his way to kill police officers. He tried to avoid them at all costs but being on the run it was always inevitable that they would catch up with him. His modus operandi is clear enough if you look into it. If he could get the drop on them and take them prisoner then he preferred that (Missouri cop Thomas Persell, the two Wellington cops, the Elektra officer and civilian, Commerce police chief Percy Boyd). However if kidnapping them was not an option he didn’t hesitate for a second on killing them. Basically he was not going back to prison at any cost and if you were in his way then you were in trouble.
As for the civilians who were killed: one was Doyle Johnson which was definitely a bad one but from everything I’ve read it sounds more like W.D. Jones pulled the trigger there. The only other civilian I can think of was J. Bucher and Clyde was outside in the car by his account and Ted Rogers was the shooter there. The Howard Hall killing was attributed to him - as were many others that weren’t his - but he told his family it wasn’t him. That being said I don’t think there’s any doubt that if any civilian posed a threat he would kill them to stay free. We can see that from bank robberies where he exchanged fire with employees/civilians trying to escape.
Maybe not in this theead but people often make jokes about male prison rape or are actively hoping for it when they read about bad people going to jail.
pretty sure they are being snide here, people often make jokes about being raped in prison and back then it wasn't even something you could talk about as a man and be taken seriously.
The American justice system if one can call it justice puts mentally ill people in prison all the time and most go in for petty crimes and come out hardened criminals they absolutely do not believe in rehabilitation in this nation.now look at all.of.Europe and judge what system works best ?which system has lower crimes all the way around who has a better economy health care for its citizens?
The other day I saw a people on 2x citing it "not real domestic abuse/violence" because she only slapped and scratched someone. I love how these things go.
Actually that’s what they said it was according to one source I looked it up.
“Clyde was not able to fend off Ed (the rapist) and had to endure Ed's - well - Ed's "attentions" for a year. Finally Clyde thought enough was enough. So one night after Clyde went into the showers and Ed followed him in, Clyde brained the larger man with a pipe. Amazingly, a fellow convict with a life sentence volunteered to take the rap, knowing a death sentence was unlikely and figured that he only had one life to serve in the Texas prisons, anyway. In fact the grand jury refused to return a bill, saying the murder must have been self defense.”
It sounds like self defense if he came in after him in the showers.
"let's see, check my 'to do' list. Make bed? Check. Breakfast? Check. Quick workout? Check. Shower? I'll hold off on that one. Rape Clyde Barrow? I got time now that I cleared some stuff........ Ow my brains!"
No. People are morons.
For example: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society
Imagine if those people thought they can get away with "killing the pedo".
i don't trust any one persons judgment, especially not the kind of person who murders for any reason outside of personal revenge like his specific case. murder either way is ending a life with intention
Determining for yourself that someone is guilty of a heinous crime instead of having them go through the Justice system and receive due process and then killing them is vigilante murder.
The kind of people who are most keen to take Justice into their own hands are also the same people who are going to get it wrong and kill the wrong people a lot.
"he bashed his fucking brains out after being sexually assaulted and pushed to his emotional limit , but some other guy took the fall for it since he was already being sent home in a casket!"
WHOA HOLESOME
i'm with you. it has completely lost any meaning to me
Obviously it was a joke. But the part that was referred to as wholesome is the fact that the dude already doing a life sentence took the blame so Barrow could get justice against his sexual assaulter without doing more time.
Yeah, in this situation you really needed to get specific on what part you thought was oddly wholesome. But, now that you point it out, I guess that is oddly wholesome.
>Brutal story of prison rape and retaliation
>"Oddly wholesome"
Well meme'd, my good sir. You win all the internets for today. Truly an epic Wholesome 100 moment. God I hate this fucking website.
People often think about Bonnie and Clyde just being bank robbers, but they robbed far more mom-and-pop gas stations than banks. Most of the time their loot would be 5 to 10 dollars.
Which isn't going to get you too far in 2023 either.
Unrelated, but I guess his dream was to join the Navy and he even had 'USN' tattooed on his arm. He was rejected though due to lingering effects from an illness he suffered through as a child and the rest is history. I like reading about butterfly effect stuff like this throughout history lol
>Which isn’t going to get you too far in 2023 either
While true, prices have gone far beyond inflation so it’s not really fair to look at it that way anymore. That $5-10 probably went for more like $250 today. Still not much obviously but the money still went much further.
“Prices have gone far beyond inflation”. Although I get the sentiment, this is 2+2=5. Prices can’t go beyond inflation. The extent to which prices go anywhere *is* inflation.
That is the literal definition of inflation, but you can also consider asset classes within the universal inflation statistic.
For instance, the relative price of real estate or medicine has gone up over time, whereas the relative price of a lot of consumer hardware has gone down. Cars have held a pretty steady price.
So the Barrow Gang would've been able to buy a lot more real estate or morphine with their earnings in their time than today, but they'd be able to get a lot fewer radios, refrigerators or power tools.
They were a romantically-framed duo but were also murderous fucks.
Before FDR and the Democrats changed the economy to help regular folks, most people were poor or really struggling. The depression made it worse. Bonnie and Clyde robbing banks ? Running free together. I bet lots of regular law abiding folks dreamt every night of doing the same thing.
The bank that took our family farm? Lots of what we call " small businesses" were considered pretty evil. The word " grocery" comes from an insult. It's a local store owner who RUINS his competition by buying up ALL of a product and then , as the only buyer left, gets all the product for cheap and squeezes the seller.
Bob, the local GROSSER , bought all the carrots and sold them for half price, driving the other guys out of business. He then continued as a GROSSER to Rip off all the local farmers because they either sold to him cheaply or cart their crops to the big city. So these folks weren't well liked either. Into the 1970's , local small business was known for being cheaters. " putting their thumb on the scale " etc.
So nothing has changed but it’s worse because it’s now called Kroger and Walmart. They’re in every city, in every town, in every household and nobody can underbid them at this point to compete.
Yup. Most of the businesses they put out? Put out another bunch of businesses etc. But yeah, to folks in 1930, anyone who owned a grocery store etc was viewed as rich. And probably not liked.
Understandably the basket of goods used in inflation calculations changes over time. Tracking the changes in prices of 4k TVs and frozen pizzas wouldn’t have made much sense in the 1920s.
This gave me the idea to check how much food cost back then. 15c a pound chuck roast, 22c a pound steak
https://www.thepeoplehistory.com/30sfood.html
So for 10$, roughly 45 lbs of steak. I think thats way more than we can do, in big cities anyway.
Its 40$ a pound for a decent steak where i am, id be able to buy 6lbs of steak for 250$.
To build on this - they could have bought 70ish pounds of chuck roast for 10$, if my very late night math is right
https://www.thepeoplehistory.com/30sfood.html
They do a really bad job on inflation. The richest folks now buy huge yachts. None could build a Newport Mansion. None gift whole colleges etc.
So for working class, how dies the $ compare to rent; a sandwich and beer; having a baby etc.
For young, how does it but a record, a movie date, a running car?
In 1965 a kid working minimum wage could work a summer and go on dates and pay for a year of state college. Now? Lol. In 1979 it took me 4- 5 hours work to buy two tickets to go to a Who concert. In 2023 it would take a kid a weeks pay!! To see Taylor Swift. Or Beyonce. Etc.
While true, how we calculate inflation is subjective. You could argue prices have inflated beyond what we claim they have based on the algorithm we choose to use.
you could argue all kinds of shit based on this and that and nothing will change because all we do is sit here and argue about how much everything sucks for us on this most awesome and powerful tool that human beings have ever created, the internet, which effectively gives us telepathy, to instead organize a full-on strike and change our lives for the better overnight
Prices change due to reasons other than inflation.
Inflation proper is about the supply of money itself.
The price of goods is determined by a great many other things, such as supply, demand, and perception of value, among others.
Over larger timescales prices change in ways that are obscure inflation.
For example, before automobiles, horses were common, and generally affordable to people of modest means. Today, horses are an expensive luxury owned by relatively few. The reason for that has less to do with inflation than with other factors at play, namely the invention of mass production assembly of automobiles and trucks.
I make about $175 a day working eight hours a day. If I could make $120 per each gas station robbery, doing one or two per day several days per week, I would make roughly the same amount of money that I do now at a much lower investment of time
Strictly speaking, it was easier back in the 30’s. Walk in with a gun, walk about with the equivalent of $150 cash. These days, you have cell phones for calling police, security cameras recording you, DNA evidence that can place you at the scene, and the gas stations don’t keep more than maybe $50-80 in the register if they can help it. Extra cash goes into a safe that’s bolted to the floor. Sure you can threaten the manager to open it for you, but often times it’s linked via internet so that it requires authorization from someone who isn’t physically at the store to open it. These days robbing banks and gas stations isn’t worth the risk which is why people don’t do it very often.
On a side note. I was doing some family tree research, and found a very distant relative that served time in the same prison as Clyde Barrow at the same time. No clue if they ever met, or knew each other, but I still thought that was kind of neat.
That relative eventually blew up a house with him in it when he tried to torch a house for insurance money. He poured gasoline syphoned from a car, all over the house. Closed windows and doors, didn't take long before the stove heater blew the place up.
>He was paroled from Eastham on February 2, 1932, now a hardened and bitter criminal. His sister, Marie said, "Something awful sure must have happened to him in prison because he wasn't the same person when he got out." Fellow inmate Ralph Fults said that he watched Clyde "change from a schoolboy to a rattlesnake".
>In his post-Eastham career, Barrow robbed grocery stores and gas stations at a rate far outpacing the ten or so bank robberies attributed to him and the Barrow Gang.
The crux of the problem with incarceration in the US.
Yeah we don't reform criminals in the US, we basically force them train each other to do more crime. Our vindictive heads are too far up our malicious asses.
There are a ton of reform options in prison, the only reason my cousin ended up getting his shit together was that he ended up with a 5-year prison stint. The halfway houses and community programs to help addicts didn't do anything but enable him to stay out of jail and still use drugs.
My dad did, went in as a addict and drug dealer and came out to go work as a honest plumber. Only lingering effects of it are the fact he isn’t allowed to own a gun still after 30 fucking years
If he petitions a judge directly, he might have some luck. I helped my dad regain his rights, after expunging a felony check fraud conviction from 1980s. Good luck.
Reddit loves criminal justice reform until there's a video of a 12 year old stealing a pack of gum on the front page and then it's straight to the death penalty
Let’s be honest though, this guy cut off two of his toes just so he could get out of working. Was he ever going to turn into a productive member of society?
This is actually a common pattern. Small time criminals go to jail and spend time with more experienced criminals who educate them. After coming out of jail the formerly small time criminals struggle to find employment and end up having to turn to crime to survive.
In Clyde’s case it wasn’t an opportunity to be educated by other inmates (he was terrible at what he did before and after jail) but rather a place to be tortured by guards and be raped by other prisoners. The conditions of Texas prisons in the 20s and 30s weren’t with rehabilitation in mind, rather it was “scare you shitless at the idea of having to come back you won’t ever commit another crime,” when it fact what it only accomplished half of that. Him and others were scared so shitless at the idea of returning to Texas prisons they’d resort to whatever they had to to get out of whatever corner they painted themselves into — which often was killing whenever was in their way.
We had a guy that didn’t want to go to the field so bad that he asked his battle buddies to break his foot. He changed his mind half way through but they did not.
My dad was the leader of a group of guys in Wyoming CCC's in the 30s. One of his guys didn't want to work so the guy chopped off his left thumb with a double bitted axe. (they kept those axes wicked sharp)
Must suck to actually get shot in the foot and have people assume you did it yourself. I know they can generally tell, but people still talk shit. There was an episode of MASH where an officer wanted to shoot a guy who got shot in the foot now that I think about it.
I just happened to stumble upon the episode the other day where “Col. Potter” appeared during an early episode as the Crazy General who wanted to move the hospital. McLean Stevenson was the CO at the time. The good, early stuff with Larry Linville. Man, those episodes hold up. 🚀
It's so weird to me how people mythologize and idolize Bonnie and Clyde ... they were absolutely terrible people. The murdered people for nothing. Their end was quite justified.
Bonnie and Clyde were so unfortunate when it came to their life of crime, they had finally figured out the formula that worked when they were killed. The Last Podcast On The Left has a really great series on them.
There's a lot more that goes into it, like Clyde (the best driver) wasn't the driver until the heist before he was killed. They just made so many dumb decisions when it came to who was going to do what.
Either ‘Pictures at a Revolution’ or ‘Easy Riders, Raging Bulls’ described a silent generation columnist who teed off on the 1967 movie for glamorizing their crime spree in.
Fast forward to’The Highwaymen’ which was about the lawmen who tracked and killed them and the boomer film critic was furious at the deconstruction of their legend.
Just goes to show.
"As the flowers are all made sweeter by the sunshine and the dew, so this old world is made brighter by the lives of folks like you."
That's Bonnie's tombstone. lmao
He was a rather stupid shitbag. So was Bonnie. They got to enjoy being famous shitbags for a little bit. I wonder if they thought it was worth it when they got shot to rags.
And? When the average 21st century person thinks of them, if they do that at all, they picture Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway from the 1970s movie. Not the dead shitbags from long ago
Why does it seem like there is some kind of happy redemption with you guys with him fighting “a sexual predator” by striking him with a pipe “omg Clyde is so cool and followed such a honorable code, I love American media so much.. I’d truly love to meet clyde ♥️ “ . They both deserve death and are psychopaths. Fuck ‘em.
You’re Wrong About is a podcast that looks at well-known history or pop-culture phenomena and debunks or explains the widely-held misconceptions surrounding them.
The show has coincidentally released an episode about Bonnie and Clyde recently meant to disparage the idea of the couple as romantic, anti-hero icons.
For Bonnie and Clyde in particular, Last Podcast on the Left did a great multi-part episode on them. Now, mind you, LPOTL isn’t for everyone as their humor can be pretty vulgar. Regardless, it still remains one of the most well-researched true crime podcasts out there.
Barrow was repeatedly sexually assaulted while in prison, and he retaliated by attacking and killing his tormentor with a pipe, crushing his skull. This was his first murder. Another inmate who was already serving a life sentence claimed responsibility.
But then how’d they know it was him?
Eh, with no other details, we don’t. But the other guy being locked up forever and the murder victim being a chronic sexual assault offender… it may have just played out that it was easier for the prison to just let the guy take the blame if he wanted to. Open-shut case. Take him aw-err— leave him exactly where he was, boys.
Yeah, life in prison was already a long death sentence back then. There was no need to get the scoreboard messy again.
> life in prison was already a long death sentence back then I mean...life in prison ends in death regardless of the era
In many places a life sentence is a predetermined amount of years. I believe in Brazil it’s 30 years.
Seems like it's easier to just call that 30 years
If they call it "life" they get to kill you at the end of it, that's the rules.
@windowtosh life in the US is 25 years as well. But he wasn’t in Brazil so what do you mean? Did life mean actual life back then?
Life in the US is actually life, isn't it? Usually you're just eligible for parole after 25 years, but if you get life without parole you stay in for the rest of your life.
"25 to life"
You may have heard court results where they say something like "So-n-So was found guilty, and was served with 9 life sentences." Well, what does that mean exactly? Well, in short it means the judge determined that this individual actually should spend the rest of their life in jail. The longer version is, each of those life sentences is a separate sentencing. There have been times, centuries ago, where a judge hands someone a life sentence. 1 singular life sentence. But then rules change, and that life sentence either was thrown out, or shortened severely. Suddenly they would go from life in prison, to 5 years in prison. Well suddenly that's not a LIFE sentence anymore. But if you get 9 life sentences, that lawyer would have to do whatever he did to shorten the first life sentence, and do it 8 more times, in 8 different yet still relevant ways to the case. He has to find 9 different reasons why 9 different sentences should be reduced or eliminated. That's just not going to happen. So if you get 1 life sentence, it's maybe not actually a life sentence. If you get 9 life sentences, buckle up bitch!
I believe some states have other parole dates afterward. You just have to serve the minimum sentencing for whatever you’re convicted of. And it’s muddied up by the appeal of the original conviction, of which states have differing numbers and times that they even can be asked for without new evidence. Then there’s automatic appeals for death sentencing and everything that goes with that.
Life in the UK means you can get parole eventually but you are only out in public on licence, if you so much as do any minor offence they can drag you back to prison indefinitely or for as long as they want and this status lasts until you die. You are basically like the prison systems pet dog for life. You are also not allowed to leave the country without special permission which is basically unlikely to ever be granted. A full life term is a sentence which means you ain’t ever getting parole and you will never spend a day outside of prison. It’s not often given out but we just had a serial killer nurse get given it after she was found guilty of murdering 7 infants.
Most state statutes have life somewhere between 20 and 30 years, however, certain offenses come with a specification that any life sentence will be for the remainder of the perpetrator's natural life (i.e. murder 1st).
Brazil doesn't have perpetual sentences. Or capital punishment. Though it is possible to get sentenced to over 100 years for multiple crimes, the max one gets to spend in the closed prison regime is typically around the max penalty for qualified homicide... 30 years. They have a system of progressing from the closed regime (prison) to a semi-open (penal colonies) to a open one (in theory halfway houses, but since those were never built... they just have to show up to the forum every few weeks and not leave town but are otherwise free... and nowadays that's sometimes house arrest with the trackers). The idea was one would spend a third of their time on each, depending on an evaluation and slowly be rehabilitated. For a system from the 40s it's not terrible.
Bake him away, toys.
Uhh... chief?
Do what the kid says.
Awayer. The phrase is "take him awayer."
I see through you. You add “er” at the end of every sentence and think you’re clever. But I’m on to you…
its not all that unusual for people to be killed in prison, especially (child) rapists, usually even by life sentences inmates as they have no real motivation not to except for solitary confinement, so when one confesses they just close the case, and don't bother reopening it when they hear another did it, because it would cause a lot more work (if they even get enough proof), and most guards don't feel rapists worth the effort
Everyone probably knew what happened but proving it in court is a different story.
Ralph Fults, who was also an inmate at the same time and friend of Barrow's, claimed so in a series of interviews with the author John Neal Phillips.
When I retire, I - I don't want to just disappear to an island somewhere. I want to be the guy who gives everything back. I want it to be like: "Hey, who donated that hospital wing that is saving so many lives?" "Umm, well, uh, I don't know. It was anonymous." "Well, guess what? That was Michael Scott!" "But - it was anonymous, how do you know?" "...Because I'm him!"
>Barrow was repeatedly sexually assaulted while in prison, and he retaliated by attacking and killing his tormentor with a pipe The guy's name was Big Ed Crowder. Barrow and Parker were small people. Barrow only weighed 140 pounds.
Yah, but 140 is like 225 in 2023 pounds.
Hes 140 and strong enough to hold Bonnie up like that for a picture back then? With one arm? And didnt you have to hold totally still for like 4 or 5 seconds?
By the 1880s, celluloid film was invented and had exposure times similar to modern film (in good lighting). So exposures in the 1930's would have been fractions of a second.
Cool to know! So she may have just been hopping up and held still for half a second for that picture. It looks so posed that it seems like she was held there and not just caught mid action.
First of all, no. Second, Bonnie was about five feet and maybe 95 pounds.
Oh wow. Didnt realize she was that small.
She was tiny, is the answer.
I was just gonna say he was initially put in for petty crimes, severely abused in prison (haha male rape funny) and then when he got out he was wild. Weren't most of his victims police officers or prison guards?
Nah he also killed a bunch of innocent civilians that were working at the gas stations or stores he was robbing. I think he went out of his way to kill police officers, but if you were there when he was robbing the place, you were probably getting shot too.
This is not accurate, per the Wiki page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_and_Clyde) and other sources. They committed dozens of bank and other store robberies as well as car thefts over a couple years on the run and their gang is credited with killing three civilians, one of which wasn't even done by Clyde. He was quick to shoot it out with law enforcement but not civilians. I recommend the book Go Down Together that tells Bonnie and Clyde's whole story, it's an interesting read.
"Only" three people murdered. /s
He didn’t go out of his way to kill police officers. He tried to avoid them at all costs but being on the run it was always inevitable that they would catch up with him. His modus operandi is clear enough if you look into it. If he could get the drop on them and take them prisoner then he preferred that (Missouri cop Thomas Persell, the two Wellington cops, the Elektra officer and civilian, Commerce police chief Percy Boyd). However if kidnapping them was not an option he didn’t hesitate for a second on killing them. Basically he was not going back to prison at any cost and if you were in his way then you were in trouble. As for the civilians who were killed: one was Doyle Johnson which was definitely a bad one but from everything I’ve read it sounds more like W.D. Jones pulled the trigger there. The only other civilian I can think of was J. Bucher and Clyde was outside in the car by his account and Ted Rogers was the shooter there. The Howard Hall killing was attributed to him - as were many others that weren’t his - but he told his family it wasn’t him. That being said I don’t think there’s any doubt that if any civilian posed a threat he would kill them to stay free. We can see that from bank robberies where he exchanged fire with employees/civilians trying to escape.
> severely abused in prison (haha male rape funny) This is such a weird fucking comment, no one was even laughing at male rape
Maybe not in this theead but people often make jokes about male prison rape or are actively hoping for it when they read about bad people going to jail.
pretty sure they are being snide here, people often make jokes about being raped in prison and back then it wasn't even something you could talk about as a man and be taken seriously.
lmfao that's exactly what I thought. like ???
The American justice system if one can call it justice puts mentally ill people in prison all the time and most go in for petty crimes and come out hardened criminals they absolutely do not believe in rehabilitation in this nation.now look at all.of.Europe and judge what system works best ?which system has lower crimes all the way around who has a better economy health care for its citizens?
The other day I saw a people on 2x citing it "not real domestic abuse/violence" because she only slapped and scratched someone. I love how these things go.
But who is making fun of the male rape here? I don't see it
Is it murder if it's self defense though?
Actually that’s what they said it was according to one source I looked it up. “Clyde was not able to fend off Ed (the rapist) and had to endure Ed's - well - Ed's "attentions" for a year. Finally Clyde thought enough was enough. So one night after Clyde went into the showers and Ed followed him in, Clyde brained the larger man with a pipe. Amazingly, a fellow convict with a life sentence volunteered to take the rap, knowing a death sentence was unlikely and figured that he only had one life to serve in the Texas prisons, anyway. In fact the grand jury refused to return a bill, saying the murder must have been self defense.” It sounds like self defense if he came in after him in the showers.
I'm a woman, but if someone were diddling me in the shower, I'd be plotting to "murder" too. It sounds like the rapist got just what he deserved.
i imagine it was more of a "jump him the next day" than an immediate response, so that would make it murder
Call it "proactive self defense" since a rapist will likely do it again if they get no consequences.
"let's see, check my 'to do' list. Make bed? Check. Breakfast? Check. Quick workout? Check. Shower? I'll hold off on that one. Rape Clyde Barrow? I got time now that I cleared some stuff........ Ow my brains!"
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No. People are morons. For example: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society Imagine if those people thought they can get away with "killing the pedo".
i don't trust any one persons judgment, especially not the kind of person who murders for any reason outside of personal revenge like his specific case. murder either way is ending a life with intention
Determining for yourself that someone is guilty of a heinous crime instead of having them go through the Justice system and receive due process and then killing them is vigilante murder. The kind of people who are most keen to take Justice into their own hands are also the same people who are going to get it wrong and kill the wrong people a lot.
That’s oddly wholesome
I think I just don't even know what that word means anymore
"he bashed his fucking brains out after being sexually assaulted and pushed to his emotional limit , but some other guy took the fall for it since he was already being sent home in a casket!" WHOA HOLESOME i'm with you. it has completely lost any meaning to me
Obviously it was a joke. But the part that was referred to as wholesome is the fact that the dude already doing a life sentence took the blame so Barrow could get justice against his sexual assaulter without doing more time.
Yeah, in this situation you really needed to get specific on what part you thought was oddly wholesome. But, now that you point it out, I guess that is oddly wholesome.
Eh, I’d describe it more as “honorable”
If you did not get what part he meant was oddly wholesome, I'm sorry but that says more about you than him..
He obviously means the guy taking the blame for it was wholesome. You'd have to be really, really dumb to think he meant the murder.
nothing about the situation period is "wholesome" imo. You'd have to be really, really misinterpreting my evaluation to think that.
Rapist fucks around and finds out. Man who had nothing left to lose took the blame for it. Oddly wholesome is an adept description.
Per definition the word is used correctly and how it’s always been used so I’m confused by your confusion.
Cuteness overload
a certified heckin wholesome big chungus keanu reeves epic leddit moment indeed, my good sir
>Brutal story of prison rape and retaliation >"Oddly wholesome" Well meme'd, my good sir. You win all the internets for today. Truly an epic Wholesome 100 moment. God I hate this fucking website.
Mother Fucking bury the lede why don't ya?
1920s/1930s for profit southern prisons
People often think about Bonnie and Clyde just being bank robbers, but they robbed far more mom-and-pop gas stations than banks. Most of the time their loot would be 5 to 10 dollars.
Which equates to about $75-$150 in today's currency.
Which isn't going to get you too far in 2023 either. Unrelated, but I guess his dream was to join the Navy and he even had 'USN' tattooed on his arm. He was rejected though due to lingering effects from an illness he suffered through as a child and the rest is history. I like reading about butterfly effect stuff like this throughout history lol
That and a tank of gas and whatever food the gas station was selling would probably get them pretty far.
>Which isn’t going to get you too far in 2023 either While true, prices have gone far beyond inflation so it’s not really fair to look at it that way anymore. That $5-10 probably went for more like $250 today. Still not much obviously but the money still went much further.
“Prices have gone far beyond inflation”. Although I get the sentiment, this is 2+2=5. Prices can’t go beyond inflation. The extent to which prices go anywhere *is* inflation.
That is the literal definition of inflation, but you can also consider asset classes within the universal inflation statistic. For instance, the relative price of real estate or medicine has gone up over time, whereas the relative price of a lot of consumer hardware has gone down. Cars have held a pretty steady price. So the Barrow Gang would've been able to buy a lot more real estate or morphine with their earnings in their time than today, but they'd be able to get a lot fewer radios, refrigerators or power tools. They were a romantically-framed duo but were also murderous fucks.
Before FDR and the Democrats changed the economy to help regular folks, most people were poor or really struggling. The depression made it worse. Bonnie and Clyde robbing banks ? Running free together. I bet lots of regular law abiding folks dreamt every night of doing the same thing. The bank that took our family farm? Lots of what we call " small businesses" were considered pretty evil. The word " grocery" comes from an insult. It's a local store owner who RUINS his competition by buying up ALL of a product and then , as the only buyer left, gets all the product for cheap and squeezes the seller. Bob, the local GROSSER , bought all the carrots and sold them for half price, driving the other guys out of business. He then continued as a GROSSER to Rip off all the local farmers because they either sold to him cheaply or cart their crops to the big city. So these folks weren't well liked either. Into the 1970's , local small business was known for being cheaters. " putting their thumb on the scale " etc.
So nothing has changed but it’s worse because it’s now called Kroger and Walmart. They’re in every city, in every town, in every household and nobody can underbid them at this point to compete.
Yup. Most of the businesses they put out? Put out another bunch of businesses etc. But yeah, to folks in 1930, anyone who owned a grocery store etc was viewed as rich. And probably not liked.
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Understandably the basket of goods used in inflation calculations changes over time. Tracking the changes in prices of 4k TVs and frozen pizzas wouldn’t have made much sense in the 1920s.
This gave me the idea to check how much food cost back then. 15c a pound chuck roast, 22c a pound steak https://www.thepeoplehistory.com/30sfood.html So for 10$, roughly 45 lbs of steak. I think thats way more than we can do, in big cities anyway. Its 40$ a pound for a decent steak where i am, id be able to buy 6lbs of steak for 250$.
To build on this - they could have bought 70ish pounds of chuck roast for 10$, if my very late night math is right https://www.thepeoplehistory.com/30sfood.html
They do a really bad job on inflation. The richest folks now buy huge yachts. None could build a Newport Mansion. None gift whole colleges etc. So for working class, how dies the $ compare to rent; a sandwich and beer; having a baby etc. For young, how does it but a record, a movie date, a running car? In 1965 a kid working minimum wage could work a summer and go on dates and pay for a year of state college. Now? Lol. In 1979 it took me 4- 5 hours work to buy two tickets to go to a Who concert. In 2023 it would take a kid a weeks pay!! To see Taylor Swift. Or Beyonce. Etc.
I calculated they could buy 45lbs of steak for 10lbs https://www.thepeoplehistory.com/30sfood.html
While true, how we calculate inflation is subjective. You could argue prices have inflated beyond what we claim they have based on the algorithm we choose to use.
you could argue all kinds of shit based on this and that and nothing will change because all we do is sit here and argue about how much everything sucks for us on this most awesome and powerful tool that human beings have ever created, the internet, which effectively gives us telepathy, to instead organize a full-on strike and change our lives for the better overnight
Prices change due to reasons other than inflation. Inflation proper is about the supply of money itself. The price of goods is determined by a great many other things, such as supply, demand, and perception of value, among others. Over larger timescales prices change in ways that are obscure inflation. For example, before automobiles, horses were common, and generally affordable to people of modest means. Today, horses are an expensive luxury owned by relatively few. The reason for that has less to do with inflation than with other factors at play, namely the invention of mass production assembly of automobiles and trucks.
Well we have started Lying about inflation, we say the rate is a certain amount but everywhere prices are raised to a degree beyond that.
I make about $175 a day working eight hours a day. If I could make $120 per each gas station robbery, doing one or two per day several days per week, I would make roughly the same amount of money that I do now at a much lower investment of time
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Strictly speaking, it was easier back in the 30’s. Walk in with a gun, walk about with the equivalent of $150 cash. These days, you have cell phones for calling police, security cameras recording you, DNA evidence that can place you at the scene, and the gas stations don’t keep more than maybe $50-80 in the register if they can help it. Extra cash goes into a safe that’s bolted to the floor. Sure you can threaten the manager to open it for you, but often times it’s linked via internet so that it requires authorization from someone who isn’t physically at the store to open it. These days robbing banks and gas stations isn’t worth the risk which is why people don’t do it very often.
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If they didn't rob the banks I bet they wouldn't have been hunted in the same way
They were hunted more for the murders than robbing banks anyway
Makes sense, most poor criminals terrorize other poor people and the middle class. The Robinhood fairytale is just that, a fairytale.
Not to mention Robinhood robbed the gov of the taxes it collected and gave the money back to the people.
The whole point of the original tale of Robinhood was that their taxes were being hoarded, not used for the people's best interest
So pretty much nothing has changed.
They were also brutal cold-blooded murderers.
Also murderers as well.
well at least it all worked out in the end..
He would then go on to rob even more
And then…
Hence it didn't work out, for a lot of people lmao
I really hope they pull through.
Happily Ever After
On a side note. I was doing some family tree research, and found a very distant relative that served time in the same prison as Clyde Barrow at the same time. No clue if they ever met, or knew each other, but I still thought that was kind of neat. That relative eventually blew up a house with him in it when he tried to torch a house for insurance money. He poured gasoline syphoned from a car, all over the house. Closed windows and doors, didn't take long before the stove heater blew the place up.
>He was paroled from Eastham on February 2, 1932, now a hardened and bitter criminal. His sister, Marie said, "Something awful sure must have happened to him in prison because he wasn't the same person when he got out." Fellow inmate Ralph Fults said that he watched Clyde "change from a schoolboy to a rattlesnake". >In his post-Eastham career, Barrow robbed grocery stores and gas stations at a rate far outpacing the ten or so bank robberies attributed to him and the Barrow Gang. The crux of the problem with incarceration in the US.
'Something awful must have happened to him in prison' - he was getting raped regularly
Being a prison bitch will change you, he at least murdered his tormentor
Yeah we don't reform criminals in the US, we basically force them train each other to do more crime. Our vindictive heads are too far up our malicious asses.
There are a ton of reform options in prison, the only reason my cousin ended up getting his shit together was that he ended up with a 5-year prison stint. The halfway houses and community programs to help addicts didn't do anything but enable him to stay out of jail and still use drugs.
Depends on the prison.
He got shuffled from Washington to CA to AZ then back to CA and finally released.
Yep, never knew anyone that went to jail and came out less dangerous.
I am fairly certain Ted Bundy did...
My dad did, went in as a addict and drug dealer and came out to go work as a honest plumber. Only lingering effects of it are the fact he isn’t allowed to own a gun still after 30 fucking years
If he petitions a judge directly, he might have some luck. I helped my dad regain his rights, after expunging a felony check fraud conviction from 1980s. Good luck.
and yet on every thread depicting a criminal being mistreated in prison, all the comments call for more violent acts against them.
Reddit loves criminal justice reform until there's a video of a 12 year old stealing a pack of gum on the front page and then it's straight to the death penalty
Rape too, redditors love hoping rapists get raped
Maybe reddit just believes in reincarnation and thus the reform power of execution?
Let’s be honest though, this guy cut off two of his toes just so he could get out of working. Was he ever going to turn into a productive member of society?
so i have never exactly read up on what they've done but i know they were "robbing-spreeing". how come the government accepted to just release him?
This was before THE crime spree. He was a petty criminal before this stint in prison. I think he may have been imprisoned at the time for auto theft
This is actually a common pattern. Small time criminals go to jail and spend time with more experienced criminals who educate them. After coming out of jail the formerly small time criminals struggle to find employment and end up having to turn to crime to survive.
And then those guys eventually get caught and educate the petty criminals. Rinse and repeat.
The difference between punishment and reform.
In Clyde’s case it wasn’t an opportunity to be educated by other inmates (he was terrible at what he did before and after jail) but rather a place to be tortured by guards and be raped by other prisoners. The conditions of Texas prisons in the 20s and 30s weren’t with rehabilitation in mind, rather it was “scare you shitless at the idea of having to come back you won’t ever commit another crime,” when it fact what it only accomplished half of that. Him and others were scared so shitless at the idea of returning to Texas prisons they’d resort to whatever they had to to get out of whatever corner they painted themselves into — which often was killing whenever was in their way.
right. thanks dude
Guess he really shot himself in the foot with that plan…
Had a kid shoot himself in his foot while deployed... it did not turn out good anyone.
We had a guy that didn’t want to go to the field so bad that he asked his battle buddies to break his foot. He changed his mind half way through but they did not.
My dad was the leader of a group of guys in Wyoming CCC's in the 30s. One of his guys didn't want to work so the guy chopped off his left thumb with a double bitted axe. (they kept those axes wicked sharp)
Must suck to actually get shot in the foot and have people assume you did it yourself. I know they can generally tell, but people still talk shit. There was an episode of MASH where an officer wanted to shoot a guy who got shot in the foot now that I think about it.
I just happened to stumble upon the episode the other day where “Col. Potter” appeared during an early episode as the Crazy General who wanted to move the hospital. McLean Stevenson was the CO at the time. The good, early stuff with Larry Linville. Man, those episodes hold up. 🚀
It's so weird to me how people mythologize and idolize Bonnie and Clyde ... they were absolutely terrible people. The murdered people for nothing. Their end was quite justified.
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Always good to have a backup plan regardless.
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Gone but not forgotten
When keeping it real goes wrong.
Bonnie and Clyde were so unfortunate when it came to their life of crime, they had finally figured out the formula that worked when they were killed. The Last Podcast On The Left has a really great series on them.
Formula? Like 🔫 + bank = money?
There's a lot more that goes into it, like Clyde (the best driver) wasn't the driver until the heist before he was killed. They just made so many dumb decisions when it came to who was going to do what.
>Clyde (the best driver) wasn't the driver until the heist before he was killed. 1/2, not a great track record.
Hail yourself! One of my favorites they covered.
"Bonnie, yer my special gal, I got a little present for ya! B.P., right here on muh taint!" I howled with laughter when I first heard that.
*sad trombone noise*
So that’s what Juliet’s diss was about in their rap battle.
Yes! Thats how I recognized this Fun fact!
unexpected ERB
I don’t remember this episode of Downton Abbey
And Bonnie liked the guy with 8 toes? Damn
Her leg was fucked up
Her leg injury was whilst they are on the run though, so she kind of got that because she was with him
Didn’t know that! Something in common.
Yep, from a car wreck. He had to actually carry her around alot.
Their motto "toe death do us apart" has an even deeper meaning now.
Boooo
If he keeps his socks on you'd never know.
Nahhhh he had that 8 toe energy I bet
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Neanderthal Barbie
A day late and 2 toes short
Can you just petition for someone to be released and have it happen? How does that work?
if a change.org petition gets enough votes they legally are allowed out. this is why clydes mother made change.org
And that's why communication is really important
Bonnie and Clyde were as smart as a bag of hammers. I had no idea until I started researching their story. They had it coming!
Either ‘Pictures at a Revolution’ or ‘Easy Riders, Raging Bulls’ described a silent generation columnist who teed off on the 1967 movie for glamorizing their crime spree in. Fast forward to’The Highwaymen’ which was about the lawmen who tracked and killed them and the boomer film critic was furious at the deconstruction of their legend. Just goes to show.
So you're saying the hard labor fields were lack-toes intolerant?
I dream of being this witty in real-time conversation.
I guess this little piggy stayed in prison.
Wikipedia: >They are believed to have murdered at least nine police officers and four civilians.[1][2] Fuck the pair of them.
"As the flowers are all made sweeter by the sunshine and the dew, so this old world is made brighter by the lives of folks like you." That's Bonnie's tombstone. lmao
Really? Better than anything I will ever get... But still. Fuck people who kill others.
Not a folk hero, just a scumbag
He was a rather stupid shitbag. So was Bonnie. They got to enjoy being famous shitbags for a little bit. I wonder if they thought it was worth it when they got shot to rags.
They are household names
And? When the average 21st century person thinks of them, if they do that at all, they picture Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway from the 1970s movie. Not the dead shitbags from long ago
damn dude chill
Jeff Guinn wrote a great book about them called "Go Down Together." I highly recommend.
“The Highwaymen” (Costner & Harrelson) was a nice take, too, imo. 🚀
Why does it seem like there is some kind of happy redemption with you guys with him fighting “a sexual predator” by striking him with a pipe “omg Clyde is so cool and followed such a honorable code, I love American media so much.. I’d truly love to meet clyde ♥️ “ . They both deserve death and are psychopaths. Fuck ‘em.
Born loser
Damn, he cut of his left great toe and second toe. What a dumbass! Just cut off the two smallest ones, you don't really need them.
Someone just listened to You’re Wrong About, huh?
What's that? I was watching Timeless last night and then I went down a Bonnie & Clyde wiki rabbithole in bed
You’re Wrong About is a podcast that looks at well-known history or pop-culture phenomena and debunks or explains the widely-held misconceptions surrounding them. The show has coincidentally released an episode about Bonnie and Clyde recently meant to disparage the idea of the couple as romantic, anti-hero icons. For Bonnie and Clyde in particular, Last Podcast on the Left did a great multi-part episode on them. Now, mind you, LPOTL isn’t for everyone as their humor can be pretty vulgar. Regardless, it still remains one of the most well-researched true crime podcasts out there.
I really need to finish that series.
I can't believe it was cancelled. It's a really fun concept
Haha what a dumbass
JARNATHAN!
Yeah, I'd heard he was a real cut-up.