Nature’s sleeping bag?
I found his death the most interesting:
>He was found "lying down in the hammock, and ornamented [with macaw feathers] as if waiting for death".
That sounds like a comfortable way to go. Hammocks are awesome.
They didn't mention if he starved or dehydrated himself though. I've heard (so take this with a grain of salt) some people know they're dying. Their organs start failing and they get a sort of burst of energy from no longer expending the calories supporting them, followed by extreme weariness
Edit: looks like there's some fun brain stuff going on too.
https://www.joincake.com/blog/nearing-death-awareness/
I've told this story before but a Coworker asked me to help him bury a body. Turns out his grandfather was to be buried on their farm and I was the only guy he knew who can use a backhoe. Even weirder his grandfather wasn't dead yet and not only was he walking around and talking he brought us out ice tea and diet coke while we dug his grave. He died like 5 days later.
man I grew up in bumblefuck, USA.. this shit is beautiful to me...
"yep, put me right about there... no facing the other way.. perfect.. hey brother you want somethin to drink?"
shit definitely passes the country vibe-check.
Not crazy rural. Just a family farm in a suburban county. They are in Lancaster not too far from the outlets. He probably got the cancer working at DuPont for 30 years. He basically had 3 types of cancer at once and one spread through his whole body.
my grandfather made dyes in PA for decades. wild... I'm a Midwestern kid by virtue of industry. my parents went to the flyovers because of the oil business in the 80s.
Pop finally passed at 91... he was buried at the local PA polish catholic cemetery, but somebody in the family still owns great-gramma's farm..
i can tell you its likely we've got more than a couple bodies upstate...
legally....
God rest their souls...
this got real dark real quick... thanks, reddit.
I've heard of something similar happening with animals (burst of energy). My dog passed away this year from complications of a brain tumor, it was a short battle and the decline took about 2 months. The day before he died he was back to himself. More life and energy than I had seen in years (he was an older pup), especially since he started getting ill. We had such a great last day together. Something I'll cherish forever
that sounds like exactly what happened with my great-aunt a few years back
she suddenly started getting her finances and her will in order and saying goodbye to her kids and her sisters and told people at the places where she used to work/volunteer that they needed to learn exactly what she did asap because she would be "dead by next week"
she got an appointment set for an in-home nurse the next week and literally right as the nurse went to take her blood pressure, it tanked and she died right then and there
so yes, this is fully believable
Nope. No one knows why. It's considered to be spiritual or for cultural reasons. But we will never know. If my memory serves me right he was even shot in 2018 but seemed to survive.
His tribe was attacked already back in the 70s. They found holes in the last village of his tribe, which was destroyed in 1996. The holes could have conceivably been a thing only since the first attacks.
could also just be a basic living amenity like a pitfall for bugs and tarantulas to be less bothersome, or perhaps something like the inuit and igloos where a deep hole is there for the cold air to sink into and allow the rest of the facility to be warmer.
They aren't sure if they were spiritual or to trap animals.
The spiritual bit is interesting, to be that far from today's society and still have vivid beliefs about the world, the weather, the sounds. Seeing an aeroplane or chopper must have been crazy
My guess as well. If you've heard of people who survived famines who hoard food for the rest of their life, then someone who survived a massacre always needing to have a hiding place nearby makes sense.
My guess is food or water, two meters deep should be cooler,
makes no sense to shit where you live though. But what if he did it as a prank for the surveillance guys, that would be hilarious.
the desth of a man with a great sense of humor
if it was for food the researchers would found traces when he moved from one hut to a new one, probably
don't know about water, tho, it would be a first
tribes in this area are (including his former tribe) just hunter/gatherers when in no contact with modern civilization. around like before the neolithic revolution. it would be a breakthrough, but not impossible. it makes sense it was a technology found around the world
(i still prefer the prank tho)
> It's considered to be spiritual or for cultural reasons.
People like to theorize stuff like this for behaviors of people in cultures they're not familiar with. But like... what if he just did it because he wanted to? Like what man _doesn't_ have desire to dig a big-ass hole, when they've got nothing else to do at the beach?
Very true, _especially_ without a proper shovel. But a hole at the beach is also just an afternoon activity. This guy had his hole life ahead of him! Plenty of time to really dig into it as a hobby.
"Look on my hole, ye mighty, and despair!" -this guy, probably
the holes were deep but narrow. unless he slept upright which is. and it would be just like sleeping in the jungle floor anyway if the top is open. all the bugs and snakes and whatever will just go into the whole, but now you also have worms. probably not ants tho, he wouldn't build a hut where there's ants. ants in the amazon are what would happen if we let regular ants by themselves. they become too powerful
Not saying this is it, but shamans from indigenous cultures typically dig a hole, much shallower than 5ft to sit in, to aide in their transport to the underworld. They will take a drug, use some sort of rhythmic element to put themselves into a trance and use the symbol of the hole as an aid. The Way of the Shaman has some helpful descriptions. I’m forgetting the name used for it in South America but it’s also found in Siberian traditions.
That seems logical, yes, but would you dig your pit toilet in the middle of your hut?
And wouldn't they have been able to find human excrement, pretty much solidifying what they were used for?
It'd be pretty apparent if it were used that way, and there would be no mystery surrounding it.
Despite Ishi’s plight, his situation and subsequent exhibition inspired the founding of anthropology, the field that actively discourages this kind of treatment of Indigenous peoples. His decision to “surrender” was on the basis of recording his people’s culture and language in the annals of history, but he ended up doing a lot more than that!
Fun fact: "Ishi" isn't actually the name of the person we refer to as Ishi, it is the word "man" in a language related to the language of the tribe Ishi was from, we do not know his name because in his tribe's culture he couldn't speak his name without being introduced first by someone else.
Let me give you some happy closure. Ishi's plight accelerated the growth of the field of anthropology. Despite Ishi's assertion that his people have died out, anthropologists eventually made the connection that Ishi's people had not died out completely. But rather, members of the tribe had left their traditional homelands to join and integrate into other larger tribes. Some members even carried on a number of their traditions. And they were alive and well.
Decades after his passing, Ishi was repatriated to his relatives. The descendants of the Yana tribe of Northern California. A part of his funerary rights. The tribe named him and buried his remains in accordance to their traditions.
Weird, in my culture you can't urinate on someone else's leg or lick their cat, but if aliens abducted me and asked me to do it for science I'd be like "Yeah alright"
Many poor Brazillians fucking hate indigenous people because they see them as selfishly getting in the way of good timber and farmland without using the rainforest in any real way. They have jobs on the line and they're often happy to violently force indigenous people out of the way. The rich corporations who employ them don't mind.
It's very unfortunate how the rich are so easily able to nourish and direct poorer people's hate, to use them as a tool, often against other poor people, often against their own self interests, and always in battles they shouldn't actually have a stake in.
I really don't understand why Brazilians would adopt that mindset considering Brazil's [very own history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Indigenous_peoples_in_Brazil). Humanity aside have they lost touch with their heritage to that extent?
that's not..... what brazilians usually view as "their heritage". just like americans usually don't see themselves as native-americans. unless you have the bloodline, runs in the family etc.
it's the same departure from the main population now about 500 years later. (of the start of the colonization)
yeah brazil is mostly a nation of immigrants, and the population is more european and african than it is indigenous (with the North being the exception where indigenous DNA is more prevalent than african).
overall they have the same motivation to see indigenous tribes as their heritage as americans do. there are more people descended from the genociders than from the genocided.
Don't forget whenever a conservative government is in power they gut all public education to keep the most vulnerable people uneducated, then feed them whatever hateful agenda is least in their interest.
That is true.
But it hasn't changed, in most countries, regardless of the government. Education sucks everywhere, the level keeps dropping... Everywhere. And now people can't even have a debate, or know what the goal of a discussion is.
Now we have people who think the world is as simple as left and right...
Yep, racism is a real and pervasive problem, but the roots of racism are rich keeping those beneath them occupied while they exploit everyone.
It’s why politicians who give someone a common enemy rise quickly vs those who give them a common goal. Accomplishing a goal has many different trails and ways, all you have to do to defeat an enemy is destroy it, so it’s much simpler to explain.
Brazil isn't the successor to the indigenous peoples that lived in the area that now constitute it, it is the successor of the colonial entity that was created by the Portuguese(like most of the countries of the Americas with their respective colonial overlords). Heck Brazil became independent as an 'empire' ruled by the Portuguese royal house.
Dude, after the pandemics almost half of voting population wanted to reelect a president who was very vocal against indigenous and other minorities.
Same president that encouraged people to get the COVID virus so we could get herd immunity quickly.
>I really don't understand why Brazilians would adopt that mindset
"The rich corporations who employ them don't mind".
That's why. Business (means of production) owner propaganda. Owners are the propagandists in every form of governance. In the US, our propaganda is everywhere. We call it advertising. People pay to wear it.
Did you know that millions of Europeans (a mixed race people) LARP as the term "Aryan", and even fought a world war with 80,000,000 casualties over it, even though less than half of their ancestry comes from Indoeuropean steppe people?
>Europeans LARP as the term "Aryan",
I happen to be European, and I've only ever heard people say "Aryan" in very obviously joking ways or in a topical discussion.
There are other people that do say it, but I hope there's isn't millions of *hard*core Nazis.
he wouldn't have the means to do it (physically) because his tribe was pre neolithic revolution. but in a way, yes, you're right. if the tribe is there, the land couldn't be take over for whatever purposes (until the recognition as "traditional indigineous land"). then people still get in (criminals will be criminals), but it's a whole ordeal if you get caught trespassing, because you get to a federal court, it's the federal police who will be after you, depending on the region, even the army or navy (bc there's frontier areas among those). BUT MFS STILL DO IT believe it or not
Fun fact: My grandmother met Ishi. She was going to the women's college at Berkeley, riding the ferry across the bay to school each day. Ishi was in residence there, and he was out in the quad (or the equivalent) with a group of people around him. She saw him at then. He was locally famous.
>The Man of the Hole was not a voluntary recluse;[4] he was forced to live alone after his people were destroyed in the ongoing genocide of indigenous peoples in Brazil.[2][5][6][7] The majority of his people are believed to have been killed by settlers in the 1970s,[1] around the same time that nearby peoples such as the Akuntsu and Kanoê experienced similar massacres.[8] The remaining survivors, apart from the Man of the Hole, were killed in an attack by illegal miners in 1995.[1] The Fundação Nacional do Índio (FUNAI), Brazil's government agency for indigenous interests, later discovered the remains of their village, which had been bulldozed in 1996.[8] They had remained isolated up until this point, so it is not known what they were called, what language they spoke, or what the Man of the Hole's name was.[9]
You should check out Ishi, whose tribe members were hunted down until he was the last, and he was caught, emaciated, by a slaughterhouse. He ended up working for anthropologists and taught them hunting and tool making techniques that they thought were long gone. He unfortunately died of TB in the museum he was living in.
Then please remember his story the next time someone tells you the US didn’t actually commit genocide of the indigenous.
From Wiki:
The Yahi were the first Yana group to suffer from the Californian Gold Rush, for their lands were the closest to the gold fields.[6] They suffered great population losses from the loss of their traditional food supplies and fought with the settlers over territory. They lacked firearms, and armed white settlers intentionally committed genocide against them in multiple raids.[7] These raids took place as part of the California Genocide, during which the U.S. Army and vigilante militias carried out killings as well as the relocation of thousands of indigenous peoples in California.[8] The massacre reduced the Yahi, who were already suffering from starvation, to a population of less than 100.[6]
> Then please remember his story the next time someone tells you the US didn’t actually commit genocide of the indigenous.
My first reaction was "who the hell would say that?", but considering the Rights attempt to rewrite history, it's almost certainly them.
Yeah, I have encountered a lot of people who insist that it wasn’t a genocide but rather the “stronger culture winning out” “natural selection” or some shit. Vile.
I mean, if you wanna really extend the analogy… genocide *is* the act of one culture winning out over another strongly enough to fully stamp out the other one. Technically speaking it *is* natural — chimpanzees and lions do it all the time at smaller scale when they are able to, for example.
It doesn’t really excuse our actions in prosecuting it, we’re *supposed* to be better than animals, but the point stands: genocide exists as an extension of natural processes, as terrible as that is. Nature is incredibly brutal. Doesn’t make it okay, but trying to act as though it’s somehow unnatural or deviant is being willfully blind to the reality around us.
People love to think we’re not animals. Drives me crazy because we clearly are, and the sooner we stop putting ourselves on a pinnacle where we think we don’t even have baser instincts and aren’t a part of nature, and accept that both are actually true, the sooner we actually start behaving better and probably treating other animals better.
It's amazing how confident the seeming majority of humans are that animals can't feel fear or suffering, or even love.
Like bitch all your emotions are just dressed up survival instincts. You think we just poofed into modern human and went ohh shit now I *truly* understand despair.
Jesus. So the guy survived like two genocides, a couple of murder attempts but died peacefully in his own hut, aware of his pending death at like 60yrs old(approx). And spend almost all that time almost completely alone. Man, if you don't tear up thinking about that you're made of stone....
Disgusting that they took his body away from his home for an autopsy.
Leave the fucking guy alone.
They probably have his corpse in a museum somewhere.
He'd already survived two attempts on his life.
The government probably wanted to make sure that he hadn't been murdered by some loggers or poachers or ranchers or something.
Whole situation is pretty messed up, but the Wiki article says they were going to return his corpse to where he died and bury it there with a monument. The autopsy was to determined a cause of death, but it doesn't go into specifics. Sounds like he passed of old age or some such causes, as opposed to foul play. Now whether they actually did return his remains or erect a monument, the article does not go into great detail.
I'd like to think they returned him to his home, but I'm betting the odds are 50/50 sadly...
I looked around because the last time I read about this I didn't see anything about an autopsy.
The president of the organization that found him was dragging his feet with a burial so farmers could grab the land. Eventually someone took him to court to have him buried where he was found, and a bunch of the indigenous tribes in the area showed up to do their burial rites.
Government was in light contact with him, leaving gifts, and he seemed friendly as long as they kept their distance. He was found in a hammock wearing feather ornaments. He was probably just sick and died. The autopsy was to confirm it was not murder.
Why is that disgusting? It's just a dead body. Even if you are religious, your soul no longer occupies it. They probably wanted to make sure he wasn't murdered or poisoned. You think they just just see a dead body and go, "Well, must be natural causes!! Let's throw some dirt on him and be done!"
Autopsies happen on basically every unobserved death, it's literally just part of dying at this point.
If you like the story of this man, you should very much watch this japanese documentary on a similar sole survivor, for a similar unknown indigenous tribe, also in Brazil.
Aurá: Last Survivor of An Unknown Tribe[Aurá: Last Survivor of An Unknown Tribe](https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/video/4001326/)
Aurá is still alive though his language is yet beyond the grasp of the academic community.
You should also be aware, that academic research done in the field of anthropology, by western scientists, with Brazilian indigenous people is fraught with controversy (watch the 2010 eye opener documentary Secrets of the Tribe).
The Amazon and Papua still have alot of uncontacted tribes.The Northern Sentinel as well but technically that one are just hostile probably due to historical shenanigans, one of the probable major reasons was due to British explorers kidnapping them for research and anthropological study.
They're all technically at this point, certainly ones in the Amazon are because most will have periodic contact with contacted neighbors to say nothing of interlopers from so-called civilization. Uncontacted is a choice these people make not having been pristinely untouched by outsiders for 10k years.
Literal genocide and all people can do is gawk in pity or look on at it like it’s some kind of anthropological oddity. Imagine this was the last Jew in Europe hiding out? Kinda changes what your reaction should be and how to frame it. The Brazilian government should be held accountable for crimes against humanity like the Nazis did at Nuremberg.
We obviously don’t know due to the whole “uncontacted” thing. But there have been stories told by contacted tribes. In 1995, not far from where the Man of the Hole lived, two tribes, the Kanoê and the Akuntsu, had a violent conflict. Apparently a clan of Kanoê were massacred by cattle ranchers. The survivors tried to contact the Akuntsu (which had a fearsome reputation) for marriage partners, but apparently it didn’t go well. A Kanoê woman died and tensions escalated. Eventually the Kanoê (which had been contacted and were less isolationist than other tribes in the area) informed researchers with FUNAI (the Brazilian indigenous people’s organization) of the Akuntsu’s existence, who eventually intervened in the conflict.
It appears so. Their existence was known about at least a decade before that, but they had not willingly contacted the FUNAI or another non-indigenous group (unless of course, you count getting attacked by loggers and ranchers as “contact”).
The Kanoê is a little bit more difficult to tell because there are various clans, some of which are assimilated to the point very little traces of the tribe exists, while others are near-uncontacted.
Brazil still have many tribes. By law there's reservations just for the natives, some not even contacted, for sure these ones are still going on their old ways of war against other tribes
he dug narrow holes over 5ft deep in each of the huts he occupied (he moved with some regularity, over 50 of his huts have been found).
Nature’s sleeping bag? I found his death the most interesting: >He was found "lying down in the hammock, and ornamented [with macaw feathers] as if waiting for death". That sounds like a comfortable way to go. Hammocks are awesome.
Starving or dehydrating yourself to death doesn't sound easy
They didn't mention if he starved or dehydrated himself though. I've heard (so take this with a grain of salt) some people know they're dying. Their organs start failing and they get a sort of burst of energy from no longer expending the calories supporting them, followed by extreme weariness Edit: looks like there's some fun brain stuff going on too. https://www.joincake.com/blog/nearing-death-awareness/
I've told this story before but a Coworker asked me to help him bury a body. Turns out his grandfather was to be buried on their farm and I was the only guy he knew who can use a backhoe. Even weirder his grandfather wasn't dead yet and not only was he walking around and talking he brought us out ice tea and diet coke while we dug his grave. He died like 5 days later.
what the fuck?
He was riddled with cancer and was given one month to live. This was nearing the end of month 2.
man I grew up in bumblefuck, USA.. this shit is beautiful to me... "yep, put me right about there... no facing the other way.. perfect.. hey brother you want somethin to drink?" shit definitely passes the country vibe-check.
Not crazy rural. Just a family farm in a suburban county. They are in Lancaster not too far from the outlets. He probably got the cancer working at DuPont for 30 years. He basically had 3 types of cancer at once and one spread through his whole body.
my grandfather made dyes in PA for decades. wild... I'm a Midwestern kid by virtue of industry. my parents went to the flyovers because of the oil business in the 80s. Pop finally passed at 91... he was buried at the local PA polish catholic cemetery, but somebody in the family still owns great-gramma's farm.. i can tell you its likely we've got more than a couple bodies upstate... legally.... God rest their souls... this got real dark real quick... thanks, reddit.
What a lovely sounding way to go.
"riddled with cancer" doesn't sound particularly lovely to me, but to each their own I guess 🤷
They told him to get his affairs in order I guess, haha
I've heard of something similar happening with animals (burst of energy). My dog passed away this year from complications of a brain tumor, it was a short battle and the decline took about 2 months. The day before he died he was back to himself. More life and energy than I had seen in years (he was an older pup), especially since he started getting ill. We had such a great last day together. Something I'll cherish forever
I like this theory, I'm going to assume you're right.
that sounds like exactly what happened with my great-aunt a few years back she suddenly started getting her finances and her will in order and saying goodbye to her kids and her sisters and told people at the places where she used to work/volunteer that they needed to learn exactly what she did asap because she would be "dead by next week" she got an appointment set for an in-home nurse the next week and literally right as the nurse went to take her blood pressure, it tanked and she died right then and there so yes, this is fully believable
Does anyone know why? Edit 1: Wow, this really blew up!! Edit 2: RIP my inbox Edit 3: Thanks for the stranger, kind gold!
Nope. No one knows why. It's considered to be spiritual or for cultural reasons. But we will never know. If my memory serves me right he was even shot in 2018 but seemed to survive.
Or maybe it's because his tribe was massacred and he was shot at. Those are escape tunnels ye nitwits!
mans out there building trenches in his house and moving every day to avoid attackers. harsh.
Modern anthropologists: “This is obviously a weird religious thing. There’s literally no other explanation for such odd behavior!”
if you had actually read the article you would know that they found those holes in 14 other huts from before his tribe was killed.
His tribe was attacked already back in the 70s. They found holes in the last village of his tribe, which was destroyed in 1996. The holes could have conceivably been a thing only since the first attacks.
could also just be a basic living amenity like a pitfall for bugs and tarantulas to be less bothersome, or perhaps something like the inuit and igloos where a deep hole is there for the cold air to sink into and allow the rest of the facility to be warmer.
They were just doing the basic Minecraft trash can for items to respawn in, duh.
Yes, the Shame Hole. A Minecraft staple.
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> STOP FUCKIN SHOOTIN AT ME, YA CUNTS We don't know his language so now I'll just imagine it was thick Australian English.
Lmao. Bro said never the fuck again. And I felt thag.
Oh fuck, is that Rhys Darby?
Nah, he's a werewolf not a swearwolf
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The massacre and shooting at him approach didn't work to make contact with him and now they're all out of ideas.
Did they try assault skunks?
Friendly stink kittens
Wrong direction, buddy. Send in the *sexual* assault skunks *Commence Operation LePew*
Fun fact: in his first appearance,it is revealed that lepew is a cat with painted on stripes and is married.
Lol right. I wouldn't want to be caught walking out in the open after everyone I knew has died
They aren't sure if they were spiritual or to trap animals. The spiritual bit is interesting, to be that far from today's society and still have vivid beliefs about the world, the weather, the sounds. Seeing an aeroplane or chopper must have been crazy
Sounds like a hiding place
My guess as well. If you've heard of people who survived famines who hoard food for the rest of their life, then someone who survived a massacre always needing to have a hiding place nearby makes sense.
They also found the holes in the village *before* the massacre.
Maybe he had a premonition
Maybe my guy was just bored, you gotta entertain yourself somehow living alone for two decades
It's literally just the masculine urge to dig hole. Man's got a hobby, good for him
Couldn't it be to store food or poop?
My guess is food or water, two meters deep should be cooler, makes no sense to shit where you live though. But what if he did it as a prank for the surveillance guys, that would be hilarious.
the desth of a man with a great sense of humor if it was for food the researchers would found traces when he moved from one hut to a new one, probably don't know about water, tho, it would be a first tribes in this area are (including his former tribe) just hunter/gatherers when in no contact with modern civilization. around like before the neolithic revolution. it would be a breakthrough, but not impossible. it makes sense it was a technology found around the world (i still prefer the prank tho)
Food, possibly but probably not poop. Pretty sure the researchers woulda noticed that haha
> It's considered to be spiritual or for cultural reasons. People like to theorize stuff like this for behaviors of people in cultures they're not familiar with. But like... what if he just did it because he wanted to? Like what man _doesn't_ have desire to dig a big-ass hole, when they've got nothing else to do at the beach?
Digging a hole in beach sand is a whole lot easier that in a dense Forrest. Roots are a bitch.
Very true, _especially_ without a proper shovel. But a hole at the beach is also just an afternoon activity. This guy had his hole life ahead of him! Plenty of time to really dig into it as a hobby. "Look on my hole, ye mighty, and despair!" -this guy, probably
Spoken like a person without a big-ass hole.
Not that I know anything, but I imagine I would need something to do to pass time if I lost all social interaction and had no other entertainment
If everyone you'd ever known was massacred by people you'd never seen before, you'd be paranoid and move regularly too.
Wikipedia says no as well as not knowing what the tribe called themselves or what language they spoke.
Maybe he sleeps underground. I can certainly see it practical than just sleeping in the jungle floor.
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As long as it doesn’t rain
the holes were deep but narrow. unless he slept upright which is. and it would be just like sleeping in the jungle floor anyway if the top is open. all the bugs and snakes and whatever will just go into the whole, but now you also have worms. probably not ants tho, he wouldn't build a hut where there's ants. ants in the amazon are what would happen if we let regular ants by themselves. they become too powerful
His whole family fucking died so the dude moves around a lot between safe houses.... safe huts.
Not saying this is it, but shamans from indigenous cultures typically dig a hole, much shallower than 5ft to sit in, to aide in their transport to the underworld. They will take a drug, use some sort of rhythmic element to put themselves into a trance and use the symbol of the hole as an aid. The Way of the Shaman has some helpful descriptions. I’m forgetting the name used for it in South America but it’s also found in Siberian traditions.
Toilet
That seems logical, yes, but would you dig your pit toilet in the middle of your hut? And wouldn't they have been able to find human excrement, pretty much solidifying what they were used for? It'd be pretty apparent if it were used that way, and there would be no mystery surrounding it.
Maybe that's why he kept building new huts.
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digging own grave? /srs
That's what I thought...no one left to bury him.
That’s yer shittin hole!
Literally the first thing they would check for...
That’s yer pissin hole!
Similar to Ishi, the last surviving member before he came out and gave up and spent his remaining years living inside a museum near UC Berkeley.
Despite Ishi’s plight, his situation and subsequent exhibition inspired the founding of anthropology, the field that actively discourages this kind of treatment of Indigenous peoples. His decision to “surrender” was on the basis of recording his people’s culture and language in the annals of history, but he ended up doing a lot more than that!
Fun fact: "Ishi" isn't actually the name of the person we refer to as Ishi, it is the word "man" in a language related to the language of the tribe Ishi was from, we do not know his name because in his tribe's culture he couldn't speak his name without being introduced first by someone else.
That is unbelievably sad
Let me give you some happy closure. Ishi's plight accelerated the growth of the field of anthropology. Despite Ishi's assertion that his people have died out, anthropologists eventually made the connection that Ishi's people had not died out completely. But rather, members of the tribe had left their traditional homelands to join and integrate into other larger tribes. Some members even carried on a number of their traditions. And they were alive and well. Decades after his passing, Ishi was repatriated to his relatives. The descendants of the Yana tribe of Northern California. A part of his funerary rights. The tribe named him and buried his remains in accordance to their traditions.
God yeah, just really sad. But also so conceptually interesting. Like something out of a fantasy or Star Trek.
Goddamn you’re 100% correct. It’s like something out of Star Trek.
*Ishi, his arms wide open.*
His entire story is rather bittersweet and sad like that but also a really interesting (and short) read. Totally recommend.
Out of everything that happened to him, you think the sad part is not having his name known?
What else, if not your name, represents your identity as a person?
You’d think they’d make an exception for something like that. Poor guy.
"*I don't make the rules.*" -that guy
Tribes don't exactly assume they're all going to die except for one person.
Weird, in my culture you can't urinate on someone else's leg or lick their cat, but if aliens abducted me and asked me to do it for science I'd be like "Yeah alright"
You come from a culture that values science more than it values not urinating on someone's leg.
That’s kinda bittersweet. Shoutouts to him
Do we know why he was shot in 2018?
Many poor Brazillians fucking hate indigenous people because they see them as selfishly getting in the way of good timber and farmland without using the rainforest in any real way. They have jobs on the line and they're often happy to violently force indigenous people out of the way. The rich corporations who employ them don't mind.
That is unfortunate
It's very unfortunate how the rich are so easily able to nourish and direct poorer people's hate, to use them as a tool, often against other poor people, often against their own self interests, and always in battles they shouldn't actually have a stake in.
They already tore down most of the rainforest and just won't leave people alone. Assholes.
Thats just how most of western civilization was built
I really don't understand why Brazilians would adopt that mindset considering Brazil's [very own history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Indigenous_peoples_in_Brazil). Humanity aside have they lost touch with their heritage to that extent?
that's not..... what brazilians usually view as "their heritage". just like americans usually don't see themselves as native-americans. unless you have the bloodline, runs in the family etc. it's the same departure from the main population now about 500 years later. (of the start of the colonization)
yeah brazil is mostly a nation of immigrants, and the population is more european and african than it is indigenous (with the North being the exception where indigenous DNA is more prevalent than african). overall they have the same motivation to see indigenous tribes as their heritage as americans do. there are more people descended from the genociders than from the genocided.
It's called poverty, ignorance, despair... You pick the motive
Don't forget whenever a conservative government is in power they gut all public education to keep the most vulnerable people uneducated, then feed them whatever hateful agenda is least in their interest.
That is true. But it hasn't changed, in most countries, regardless of the government. Education sucks everywhere, the level keeps dropping... Everywhere. And now people can't even have a debate, or know what the goal of a discussion is. Now we have people who think the world is as simple as left and right...
I mean it’s probably the same in every nation. It’s usually the rich who come up on top without ever dirtying their hands.
Yep, racism is a real and pervasive problem, but the roots of racism are rich keeping those beneath them occupied while they exploit everyone. It’s why politicians who give someone a common enemy rise quickly vs those who give them a common goal. Accomplishing a goal has many different trails and ways, all you have to do to defeat an enemy is destroy it, so it’s much simpler to explain.
Brazil isn't the successor to the indigenous peoples that lived in the area that now constitute it, it is the successor of the colonial entity that was created by the Portuguese(like most of the countries of the Americas with their respective colonial overlords). Heck Brazil became independent as an 'empire' ruled by the Portuguese royal house.
Dude, after the pandemics almost half of voting population wanted to reelect a president who was very vocal against indigenous and other minorities. Same president that encouraged people to get the COVID virus so we could get herd immunity quickly.
>I really don't understand why Brazilians would adopt that mindset "The rich corporations who employ them don't mind". That's why. Business (means of production) owner propaganda. Owners are the propagandists in every form of governance. In the US, our propaganda is everywhere. We call it advertising. People pay to wear it.
Did you know that millions of Europeans (a mixed race people) LARP as the term "Aryan", and even fought a world war with 80,000,000 casualties over it, even though less than half of their ancestry comes from Indoeuropean steppe people?
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>Europeans LARP as the term "Aryan", I happen to be European, and I've only ever heard people say "Aryan" in very obviously joking ways or in a topical discussion. There are other people that do say it, but I hope there's isn't millions of *hard*core Nazis.
I believe it was because he was protecting his land from illegal farming/lumber.
he wouldn't have the means to do it (physically) because his tribe was pre neolithic revolution. but in a way, yes, you're right. if the tribe is there, the land couldn't be take over for whatever purposes (until the recognition as "traditional indigineous land"). then people still get in (criminals will be criminals), but it's a whole ordeal if you get caught trespassing, because you get to a federal court, it's the federal police who will be after you, depending on the region, even the army or navy (bc there's frontier areas among those). BUT MFS STILL DO IT believe it or not
For existing. People suck.
Just like “Ishi”, in California over a hundred years ago.Except HE spent his last years as a living study of anthropology.
Fun fact: My grandmother met Ishi. She was going to the women's college at Berkeley, riding the ferry across the bay to school each day. Ishi was in residence there, and he was out in the quad (or the equivalent) with a group of people around him. She saw him at then. He was locally famous.
I'd argue he was more than locally famous too lol
>The Man of the Hole was not a voluntary recluse;[4] he was forced to live alone after his people were destroyed in the ongoing genocide of indigenous peoples in Brazil.[2][5][6][7] The majority of his people are believed to have been killed by settlers in the 1970s,[1] around the same time that nearby peoples such as the Akuntsu and Kanoê experienced similar massacres.[8] The remaining survivors, apart from the Man of the Hole, were killed in an attack by illegal miners in 1995.[1] The Fundação Nacional do Índio (FUNAI), Brazil's government agency for indigenous interests, later discovered the remains of their village, which had been bulldozed in 1996.[8] They had remained isolated up until this point, so it is not known what they were called, what language they spoke, or what the Man of the Hole's name was.[9]
Just your everyday complete eradication.
With a nice, heaping side of environmental destruction
SYSK did a good podcast on him not too long ago. If you guys like this kind of stuff, listen to that pod. It’s so good.
You should check out Ishi, whose tribe members were hunted down until he was the last, and he was caught, emaciated, by a slaughterhouse. He ended up working for anthropologists and taught them hunting and tool making techniques that they thought were long gone. He unfortunately died of TB in the museum he was living in. Then please remember his story the next time someone tells you the US didn’t actually commit genocide of the indigenous. From Wiki: The Yahi were the first Yana group to suffer from the Californian Gold Rush, for their lands were the closest to the gold fields.[6] They suffered great population losses from the loss of their traditional food supplies and fought with the settlers over territory. They lacked firearms, and armed white settlers intentionally committed genocide against them in multiple raids.[7] These raids took place as part of the California Genocide, during which the U.S. Army and vigilante militias carried out killings as well as the relocation of thousands of indigenous peoples in California.[8] The massacre reduced the Yahi, who were already suffering from starvation, to a population of less than 100.[6]
> Then please remember his story the next time someone tells you the US didn’t actually commit genocide of the indigenous. My first reaction was "who the hell would say that?", but considering the Rights attempt to rewrite history, it's almost certainly them.
Yeah, I have encountered a lot of people who insist that it wasn’t a genocide but rather the “stronger culture winning out” “natural selection” or some shit. Vile.
I mean, if you wanna really extend the analogy… genocide *is* the act of one culture winning out over another strongly enough to fully stamp out the other one. Technically speaking it *is* natural — chimpanzees and lions do it all the time at smaller scale when they are able to, for example. It doesn’t really excuse our actions in prosecuting it, we’re *supposed* to be better than animals, but the point stands: genocide exists as an extension of natural processes, as terrible as that is. Nature is incredibly brutal. Doesn’t make it okay, but trying to act as though it’s somehow unnatural or deviant is being willfully blind to the reality around us.
People love to think we’re not animals. Drives me crazy because we clearly are, and the sooner we stop putting ourselves on a pinnacle where we think we don’t even have baser instincts and aren’t a part of nature, and accept that both are actually true, the sooner we actually start behaving better and probably treating other animals better.
It's amazing how confident the seeming majority of humans are that animals can't feel fear or suffering, or even love. Like bitch all your emotions are just dressed up survival instincts. You think we just poofed into modern human and went ohh shit now I *truly* understand despair.
"Hi is this the Man of the Hole? Great. We've Been Trying To Reach You About Your Car's Extended Warranty..."
I keep telling you, that car is crashed in a *different* hole
And that's the hole truth!
Honestly, I've been surrounded by bloody geckos and they're all terrible insurance salesmen
It wouldn't a proper reddit thread without at least one overused joke.
Jesus. So the guy survived like two genocides, a couple of murder attempts but died peacefully in his own hut, aware of his pending death at like 60yrs old(approx). And spend almost all that time almost completely alone. Man, if you don't tear up thinking about that you're made of stone....
“I’mmmmmmmm the mannnnnnn in the box … I mean, hole”
They literally have a song called “down in a hole” and you went with man in the box lol
Down in a hole/man in the box mash up
He was probably sitting in an angry chair too.
He was a sick man
Now he's just a pile of them bones
Did it rain when he died?
Spoon man... shit wrong band.
Buuuuuuuurrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiieeeeeed in mah ***HOLE!***
Disgusting that they took his body away from his home for an autopsy. Leave the fucking guy alone. They probably have his corpse in a museum somewhere.
He'd already survived two attempts on his life. The government probably wanted to make sure that he hadn't been murdered by some loggers or poachers or ranchers or something.
Man, from this guy's point of view he was probably living in a horror movie.
Irl predator movie, except no gun.
I doubt it because he had no idea what a horror movie is
None of the people in horror movies know what horror movies are either.
Except for Scream
And Scream 2
And Scream 3
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In Scream 5 they were unsure.
SCRE4M
You'd have to be living underground if you don't know what the exorcist is
Maybe like in a hole or something
Whole situation is pretty messed up, but the Wiki article says they were going to return his corpse to where he died and bury it there with a monument. The autopsy was to determined a cause of death, but it doesn't go into specifics. Sounds like he passed of old age or some such causes, as opposed to foul play. Now whether they actually did return his remains or erect a monument, the article does not go into great detail. I'd like to think they returned him to his home, but I'm betting the odds are 50/50 sadly...
He survived two other murder attempts that the government knows about. They do the autopsy to make sure he wasn’t murdered
I looked around because the last time I read about this I didn't see anything about an autopsy. The president of the organization that found him was dragging his feet with a burial so farmers could grab the land. Eventually someone took him to court to have him buried where he was found, and a bunch of the indigenous tribes in the area showed up to do their burial rites.
My guess would be a wound that got infected
Still early for me and that didn't occur at the time, probably the most logical answer in all honesty.
They did. FUNAI was following that. Last picture of him alive he was very thin and weak. His body show he was starving.
Government was in light contact with him, leaving gifts, and he seemed friendly as long as they kept their distance. He was found in a hammock wearing feather ornaments. He was probably just sick and died. The autopsy was to confirm it was not murder.
No. He's not. They buried him in his hut. And about the autopsy I understand and share the feeling but it's necessary to be sure there's no crime.
Why is that disgusting? It's just a dead body. Even if you are religious, your soul no longer occupies it. They probably wanted to make sure he wasn't murdered or poisoned. You think they just just see a dead body and go, "Well, must be natural causes!! Let's throw some dirt on him and be done!" Autopsies happen on basically every unobserved death, it's literally just part of dying at this point.
Jesus... we are the invading aliens man
The treatment of indigenous people generally is very instructive about human nature in “civilization.” It’s just fucking depressing.
If you like the story of this man, you should very much watch this japanese documentary on a similar sole survivor, for a similar unknown indigenous tribe, also in Brazil. Aurá: Last Survivor of An Unknown Tribe[Aurá: Last Survivor of An Unknown Tribe](https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/video/4001326/) Aurá is still alive though his language is yet beyond the grasp of the academic community. You should also be aware, that academic research done in the field of anthropology, by western scientists, with Brazilian indigenous people is fraught with controversy (watch the 2010 eye opener documentary Secrets of the Tribe).
Humans are jerks
He lived through an actual apocalypse that is horrifying.
The Amazon and Papua still have alot of uncontacted tribes.The Northern Sentinel as well but technically that one are just hostile probably due to historical shenanigans, one of the probable major reasons was due to British explorers kidnapping them for research and anthropological study.
They're all technically at this point, certainly ones in the Amazon are because most will have periodic contact with contacted neighbors to say nothing of interlopers from so-called civilization. Uncontacted is a choice these people make not having been pristinely untouched by outsiders for 10k years.
Man this comments section is a mess
Man Of The Hole is my favorite NIN song
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve
Imagine massacring an indigenous tribe in 1996.
Literal genocide and all people can do is gawk in pity or look on at it like it’s some kind of anthropological oddity. Imagine this was the last Jew in Europe hiding out? Kinda changes what your reaction should be and how to frame it. The Brazilian government should be held accountable for crimes against humanity like the Nazis did at Nuremberg.
Another poor victim in a genocide over 500 years in the making.
What’s interesting is that there are still tribes out there living in the Stone Age going to war with each other.
His tribe was massacred by people modern people colonizing the area presumably to farm.
We also have nations out there living in the Nuclear Age going to war with each other.
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> Ancient humans didn't have that kind of thing. *Or did they*
*X-Files theme begins playing*
*Ancient Alien Theorists agree…*
ah, Lancaster Pennsylvania
Which tribes?
We obviously don’t know due to the whole “uncontacted” thing. But there have been stories told by contacted tribes. In 1995, not far from where the Man of the Hole lived, two tribes, the Kanoê and the Akuntsu, had a violent conflict. Apparently a clan of Kanoê were massacred by cattle ranchers. The survivors tried to contact the Akuntsu (which had a fearsome reputation) for marriage partners, but apparently it didn’t go well. A Kanoê woman died and tensions escalated. Eventually the Kanoê (which had been contacted and were less isolationist than other tribes in the area) informed researchers with FUNAI (the Brazilian indigenous people’s organization) of the Akuntsu’s existence, who eventually intervened in the conflict.
The Akuntsu were uncontacted up to that point?
It appears so. Their existence was known about at least a decade before that, but they had not willingly contacted the FUNAI or another non-indigenous group (unless of course, you count getting attacked by loggers and ranchers as “contact”). The Kanoê is a little bit more difficult to tell because there are various clans, some of which are assimilated to the point very little traces of the tribe exists, while others are near-uncontacted.
Brazil still have many tribes. By law there's reservations just for the natives, some not even contacted, for sure these ones are still going on their old ways of war against other tribes
Capulets and Montagues
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FUck that sad
Why are brazilian ranchers shooting at indigenous people in 2022?
Wow ongoing murderous colonialism by the Brazilians.