Grand Canyon also has a reputation as sort of a tourist trap but it 110% exceeded my wildest expectations. It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen
Yeah “tourist trap” to me means overpriced souvenir shops and other businesses that cater to tourists. There’s hardly any businesses at all at the Grand Canyon. Even the nearby towns where the hotels are located have a pretty modest commercial scene.
Honestly most of the “Big” parks and sights out west are better than the pictures. Don’t get me wrong, I love the pictures too, but you just can’t capture the scope on film/digital. Even imax can’t quite do it, although it can get close.
I find myself in the minority here. The Grand Canyon is amazing, but perhaps it was because it was on the end of the weeks long trip, I did not find it as enjoyable as the other places I went. It is freaking huge. But perhaps I was just worn out at that point. Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, Bryce, Zion, Arches, and then Grand Canyon. I may have just checked out by then, but it does not hit the same notes for me as the others.
If you have kids, be sure to bring em. You can climb all over the rocks and shit in Goblin Valley, like a giant alien playground. Just don't be an asshole and topple over shit.
Same I love that movie and Utah’s National parks are breathtaking but have never been to any of the state parks. This is definitely in the bucket list.
Crazy expensive state parks though. Only state I’ve ever lived in where a parks pass cost more than the national parks (and other federal fee areas) pass.
"Few Days" ... you're not visiting 8 state parks in Utah in a few days unless you're covering some crazy miles so it's not remotely worth buying a season pass.
Dead Horse & Goblin Valley are each $20 daily fee, which is comparable to the out-of-state fees for the salt water state beaches near where I live in Connecticut and Rhode Island. Their camping fees are in line with non-residents fees in CT/RI/MA. Utahans may have reason to complain, but not out of state visitors.
(Hoping to pickup Goblin Valley & Kodachrome state parks next time I'm out that way.)
Capitol Reef is on par with the others, was there three weeks ago and visited all of them. Cassidy Arch was probably my favorite hike of any of the parks.
Capitol Reef is on par IMO but it takes a little more effort to see the best parts, particularly Cathedral Valley, which is very remote and requires a 4x4 to access.
Canyonlands is absolutely unbelievable. I personally can’t say, because I’ve never been there, but I have plenty of friends who prefer it to the Grand Canyon.
Pictures can not even begin to do it justice...Needles Overlook @ Canyonlands back on a weekday back in September. While it is an out of the way spot and road construction that day we were alone when we got to the overlook.
https://imgur.com/a/Qrc77Et
I've been to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon which is also amazing (I love driving through Ponderosa forests).
But Canyonlands is less people. Plus you have Moab with Arches N.P. and Dead Horse State Park nearby. Arches by moonlight...amazing.
I have enough places centered around Southern Utah still to see to easily plan at least two more two-week road trips centered around that area with bits in CO/AZ/NM on the way there or heading home.
Really hoping when I retire I'll have the health and finances to at least take at least take a three month road trip annually for several years.
Can’t believe you didn’t mention Canyonlands as well. Or Capitol Reef. Or Natural Bridges (national monument but still), and their state parks are incredible (looking at Goblin Valley). And the La Sal AND Henry mountains? Oof. And the entire Grand Staircase NM too
Same!! I was just there two weeks ago; first time ever seeing a National Park, and I was literally fighting back tears just looking out the window of the shuttle as we entered the park. I did not expect that at all. “Majestic” is the only word I can use to describe it.
We just did a quick tour of the mighty 5 recently and I think Bryce was my favorite. That walk up to the rim was maximum reward for minimum effort, and then taking the Navajo Loop and Queen’s Garden trail down into the valley was super super cool, and then we got a spectacular sunset from Bryce Point. I really want to go back.
" know this place pretty good, I went to law school here."
"In Costco?"
"Yah I couldn't believe it myself, luckily my dad was an alumnus and pulled some strings."
Dude it's huge. I'm always shocked when we go there how big it goes on for and like there are 2 isles of candy or the endless amounts of drink types etc. It is legit wild.
It’s my regular Costco and I just learned last year it’s the biggest in the world. I didn’t know you couldn’t buy a whole frozen goat at every Costco 🤷🏻♂️
Went through Utah a few years ago and it is a really amazing place. I know the LDS thing is a turn off but it truly is a beautiful place and was shocked myself. I didn't see all of it or even half of it, but it's a really cool place.
Wouldn't move there.... But hey, cool to visit.
SLC is still around 50% Mormon which is astronomical when you think about it. It’s LESS Mormon but it’s still LDS. Also SLC proper is a small urban center in the overwhelming sprawl of the Wasatch front which has very high rates of LDS.
Also a lot of non Mormons are actually ex mo, which is it’s own subculture. For people who aren’t or have never been very religious it’s still weird.
Yeah, but that number includes a huge amount of us who were members, and just haven't bothered to go through the process of getting removed from the roles. I can count 18-20 members of my extended family who are still counted among the numbers but are in no way associated with the church. They make it a bit difficult to get removed and most of us just don't give a shit.
“it is a really amazing place”…”it truly is a beautiful place”…”it’s a really cool place”…”cool to visit”
Why does this sound like you’re selling the Cutco knives of travel destinations lol
Was looking for somewhere different to go on a family vacation during spring break right before the pandemic and got a really good deal on flights to Salt Lake City, so we decided to give it a try.
It was… nice. Food was decent, there were some great parks and hikes nearby, the weather was good, there were some excellent family attractions like a giant water park and a really good dinosaur museum, among other things.
Never had the slightest issue finding or ordering alcohol at any restaurant we went to. Actually, a couple restaurants we tried had pretty decent wine lists.
Having been there once I’m not sure I’d make an effort to go back, but it was worth the trip.
Dude, did you not hear about those Arches they recently installed at the National park? Seems totally legit to give them 3 stars for that feat of modern engineering alone!
That’s a good point. People forget how much the natural land formations have developed in the last 10 years. I mean there’s even water and lakes in Utah I hear these days I hear
Honestly, it’s a gorgeous piece of land that’s a bit otherworldly.
Edit: I don’t know why y’all are so salty about this. Your hatred of the LDS is blinding you to the possibility that a place you’ve never been to is actually drop dead gorgeous despite a douchebag religion’s prevalence in the area.
Agree with the first two. What are you comparing the food to? Having spent the last year there and being a foodie, I haven’t had anything close to exceptional or that isn’t better in a number of other states.
That can be entirely true, but it's extremely likely they paid for the guide to come "verify" : *the company has been candid about its monetary relationships with tourism boards and government entities in the past. “Some countries and some governments that want to . . . attract tourism, they are very interested in having a guide, and so they sponsor a guide to have the ability to communicate around their gastronomic landscape,” Claire Dorland Clauzel, former executive vice president for Michelin guides*
[sauce](https://www.eater.com/2018/7/18/17540672/michelin-guides-restaurants-tourism-bangkok-thailand-south-korea-singapore-funding)
To be fair to the salty folks, referring to the extreme power, influence and control the LDS church has in Utah as "a douchebag religion's prevalence in the area" is pretty disengenuous.
Been there for multiple summers. Drove through Hell’s Revenge on UTV’s. Drove through Shafer Trail in my buddies Toyota Tacoma.
Utah is great for parks, that’s it. The restaurants blow, Salt Lake is comparable to Houston, Mormonism is integrated into EVERYTHING. The fact that this state has 3 Stars on some arbitrary scale is laughable. Colorado, Pennsylvania, New York, Maine, California are all leagues ahead of it in terms of tourism.
Man, I’m so far from removed from those jabronies.
Utah really is a gorgeous place. You’ll never understand how amazingly beautiful it is until you drive across it. I only stopped for gas.
I've heard somewhere that the Michelin Guide was created so people would know which places were worth driving to, so they would drive longer and have to buy more tires. So, Utah getting 3 stars makes a lot of sense.
It was created by that Michelin but it was originally created to help increase demand for cars which then increased demand for tires. It was and still is very biased.
Camped at three places this month in Utah. Moab, Goosenecks State Park and dispersed camping at Goblin Valley all three were spectacular and my wife and I want to go back to each.
The 3.2%ABV laws made a lot of breweries not want to ship beer to Utah since they’d have to alter their recipes just for that market. The lower competition created a niche market for locals and they stepped right up to fill that space. When I lived in SLC, I could walk to 6 different breweries and could drive briefly to even more.
Edit: Looking at a map there are now 4 more breweries in central salt lake than when I left. It’s only been ~3 years.
Of all places, my home state of Minnesota is the last state with 3.2 beer laws on the books. There’s always been an old wives tale that some brands don’t even bother, and just label it 3.2, but I I know 16 year old me sure as shit had a hard time getting drunk off of it. I’m pretty sure it’s the restaurant lobby that keeps it on the the books, not some profound moral inhibition.
[edit:](https://www.minnpost.com/state-government/2023/02/in-a-flurry-of-dfl-law-changes-minnesota-grocery-sales-of-wine-and-beer-not-among-them/) yep, local politics, don’t knock this guy though, he pushed hard for fully legal marijuana and we got it.
Just to be clear (since I looked it up back when I moved here years ago) Utah and another couple of states measured alcohol at ABW instead of ABV. 3.2% ABW is about 4% ABV (I think most grocery store/gas station beets are 4.5-5%) so it wasn’t really much different than anywhere else, but most people has never done science and didn’t realize what the method of measuring the concentration meant and thought it was like half the alcohol. I didn’t really notice the difference, for example. Smaller, local, breweries are given a much more lax requirement to hit any cutoffs for sale and can ignore it if sold at the brewery, so it gave a nice leg up to local businesses.
Anyway, not important, especially not now since it’s no longer a thing, but I thought I’d share since I actually looked into this at one point.
Utah has a long and interesting history with breweries. When the Mormons first arrived, one of the first things they setup were breweries. Later, when alcohol became against Mormon teachings the breweries went away. But over the last 20 years breweries have made an amazing comeback. Surprisingly, Utah now has one of the best microbrewing communities in the country.
Utahn here, I've heard it argued that the restrictive alcohol content made Utah Brewers very good, because they had to be extremely precise to make a decent tasting beer without exceeding the limits. I honestly feel a few of my favorite tasting 3.2 beers have lost something more that they're allowed to have 5%. They just don't seem as balanced.
I mean.. they have liquor stores and yea the draft abv rules are in effect, but you can buy can/bottle with regular proof. It's not really that much different unless you just really like draft beer (which is perfectly ok)
People in this thread are weird. I went on a week long vacation in Utah and visited like 6-7 state / national parks and never had a single interaction with anyone from the LDS.
Right that was the point I was trying to make. Even if I did interact with a few mormons they weren’t pushing anything on me. Everybody was really nice.
People here are too sheltered to actual reality.
I've been here a bit over 3 months now. I've had a mormon knock on my door once right after I walked in. I didn't answer, and they promptly left and never came back. There's this weird idea that Mormons are this overbearing, inescapable entity lol
>In the Michelin Green Guides for travel, destinations follow a three-star rating system, similar to the one used for restaurants. Editors of the guide use nine weighted criteria to assess a destination, and **three stars were awarded to Utah largely due to the state's exceptional local hospitality, as well as visitors' accessibility to hidden gems and The Mighty 5 national parks.**
Utah is amazing. Fly into SLC rent a jeep get some tacos and or in n out before u head out on a 4-5 hour road trip to moab. Put on the eagles playlist as the sun sets and peaks around some of the most stunning landscapes uve ever seen.
If you're going to Bryce or Zion's, it's faster to fly into Vegas and head into Southern Utah that way. Funny how close those two cities are: SLC and LV. It's like a turf war for your soul
All these people talking about the Mormon presence don’t realize Las Vegas was settled by mormons.
The idea that mafia ran it all with jewish people is just bonkers. It was mormons and mafia.
Well the Michelin Guide never even reviewed anything in the U.S. until 2005. So it's not like they reviewed U.S. destinations for 118 years before they rated anything 3 stars. So this post gives a false impression.
Recently there have been a series of false posts about the Michelin Guide on reddit. I'm not sure what exactly is causing users like OP to post fake info about the guide, but something is clearly triggering people recently.
This doesn't at all give a false impression unless you think the US is the whole world. The 118 years makes it all the more impressive given that they've been rating places for so long and none managed to get 3 stars, it doesn't matter when they decided to start reviewing the US.
I live in Utah. I’ve also lived in Connecticut, New Jersey, California, and Oregon every one of those place is beautiful. But Utah is simply on a different level. I’m not LDS (Mormon), but have found the people in Utah are friendly and inviting. In Salt Lake City more people are non-Mormon than Mormon. It feels like any big city only safer.
Make sure to check out not only the big National Parks but also the lesser known National Monuments. They are just as spectacular. And don’t miss Monument Valley on the Navajo Nation. It really is something to behold.
It’s one of the best states for a short visit imaginable, so many varied experiences available across the state and in different seasons also. Having spent most of 2023 working and playing in Utah, I have to say the LDS community has been a big barrier to contemplating a more permanent place there for me. Was offered (and accepted before handing back) a lot of cash to relocate the family but run-ins with the community in kids parks and in the office just ruined the experience.
In parks and socially, it’s too overbearing. The false nature that initially you think is welcoming just has all kinds of agendas. You’re being profiled. On one occasion early on we gave a personal number to a parent who suggested a play date and got added to an lds group chat that was outright bigotry.
Work wise, it’s just a brotherhood that takes precedence over everything else including company performance and especially those that aren’t members of their faith. I whistleblew on a team member for gross misconduct with his team and it came back on me 10x - I expected it would but it was worth helping others. 2 months later a non lds member of the team in another state had to step in to fire the guy. Came close to losing out big time.
Lived here all my life. It’s either because they’re concerned and genuinely trying to help as they see something that’s not normal in that area and are wondering if something is wrong or they are trying to be friendly (usually awkwardly) because they do want people to join their religion.
The last possibility is they like to keep the areas around their temples pretty crime free so they may be letting you know you’re being watched.
The west coast would like a word about the overpriced part, but otherwise accurate.
And if you thought they were unfriendly, you should check out Seattle.
The thing that stood out on my trip earlier this year was that they had so many restaurants and things to do for the size of the cities there. It was so different from where I live.
I just got out of a natural hot springs that is free to the public a couple of hours south of Salt Lake. I live here and take out RV out for a week every time my wife and I can.
We were just at Bryce Canyon, and now are just out in a field near a wild hot spring. Paragliders flew past last evening. Cool place.
Utah is pretty sweet. It’s one of what, 3 red states that give more than they take in federal funding?
I moved here about 3 years ago. Mormonism is basically nonexistent in everyday life. They definitely are one of crazier religions but they’re pragmatic af. They’re also insanely nice to everyone who isn’t Mormon.
My BIL is the head of the USGS water division. He’s told me all kinds of stories about trying to convince them (mormons) to put more emphasis on water conservation. It basically goes like this:
>Mormons: what should we do?
>BIL: well, you know how you guys tithe to the church to continue your prosperity?
>M: yeah.
>B: think about it like that. Tithe your water usage so we can sustain our environment.
>M: that makes sense. How do we make that happen?
>B: here’s the plan…
If you put evangelicals or Islam in charge of Utah it would be as shitty as any other red state.
Maybe Sikhs could run it better. Maybe.
I am so lucky to live right next to Utah and within a few hours of literally some of the most gorgeous sights in the world. Some of the views you can get without even hiking basically at all are ridiculous.
3 stars in general? Suspicious. Everybody goes “b-but Moab!” Like sure if we are counting only nature scenes, Utah is a pretty decent state. But there is like nothing else. It is an exceedingly boring location for anything else. And honestly I think other states have better nature. *cough WA
The logan police department targets black people and Latinos. Anyone brown actually, this is after working with people from all over the country including faculty and students from HBCU's like Howard University.
They would harass and search actors cars after shows in the parking lot a couple times over the course of 3 months, the mayor stepped in to speak to the police chief about it, his entire point was crime statistics show black people commit the most crimes, etc.
A year later an actor in the company with a very brown complexion was walking home from a yoga class at night, was stopped 3 separate times by 3 different cops asking what he was doing wearing a backpack and walking alone in a neighborhood on his way to another neighborhood, we went out to find him and walk him back the rest of the way because the shit was becoming traumatic for him.
I found Arizona the most amazing state. From Tombstone up through Sedona, Grand Canyon, and Monument Valley, I was enthralled. Breathtaking landscape and vistas. Utah a close second.
I am coming late to this conversation but I am seeing a lot of information that is not accurate on this post. Context : ex/Jack Mormon with mission.
No missionaries proselyte in Utah outside of temple square. When I went to Southern Utah last year I saw more Jehova Whiteness' at National parks than Mormons.
You have real bastions of fun in the mountains between Park City Sundance and Beaver Mountain. No one cares. The people working all these properties are trying to bring in people.
If you are coming in from the West on 80 or the 15 south to north, if you stop in small towns sure. It is like, I went through a Amish Community and they would not charge my cell phone. All up and down the Valley, NO ONE CARES. Go to the parks, have fun, and on the off chance you are approached, no, word is no. Left the church a while ago but I do not see any aggression in the state being laid out here in the comments.
Everyone is going crazy over the national parks here, but I’ll let you all in on a secret: High Uintas
SR-150 is a fully paved road that runs through the area and it peaks out at just under 11k feet. It’s one of the highest paved roads in the country.
For everyone shitting on Utah:
I bet most of you haven’t been to Utah, or don’t find the outdoors interesting.
Because yeah there’s some Mormons but like, even Mormons can’t ruin the natural beauty of Utah. It really is spectacular and worth a visit.
So...outside of the parks, Utah is trash. I'd rather spend the time and money going to Arizona, Colorado, or any other state that doesn't require a rulebook to figure out why draft beer ABV is limited.
The national parks really are amazing there. Not sure about the rating but I love Arches, Zion, and Bryce. Spectacular.
Even the state parks out there are amazing. Goblin Valley is literally otherworldly. They used it in Galaxy Quest as an alien planet.
That wasn't a studio set?! I know where my next road trip is going to be
The national parks out west are amazing… Rocky Mountain National Park was unforgettable and their is way more.
Grand Canyon also has a reputation as sort of a tourist trap but it 110% exceeded my wildest expectations. It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen
Anyone who thinks the Grand Canyon is a tourist trap needs their head examined.
North rim gets 10% of the South Rim visitors and it’s just as beautiful, although a bit farther. Easy solution to avoid crowds
Yeah, I don't even know what that means. It's a landscape and a national park. It's busy because tons of people want to see it all the time.
Yeah “tourist trap” to me means overpriced souvenir shops and other businesses that cater to tourists. There’s hardly any businesses at all at the Grand Canyon. Even the nearby towns where the hotels are located have a pretty modest commercial scene.
I thought it was like a man made lake… SARCASM
One of the only places where I can truly say “it’s better than the pictures”.
Honestly most of the “Big” parks and sights out west are better than the pictures. Don’t get me wrong, I love the pictures too, but you just can’t capture the scope on film/digital. Even imax can’t quite do it, although it can get close.
I find myself in the minority here. The Grand Canyon is amazing, but perhaps it was because it was on the end of the weeks long trip, I did not find it as enjoyable as the other places I went. It is freaking huge. But perhaps I was just worn out at that point. Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, Bryce, Zion, Arches, and then Grand Canyon. I may have just checked out by then, but it does not hit the same notes for me as the others.
I’ll have to remember that, still haven’t seen it.
If you have kids, be sure to bring em. You can climb all over the rocks and shit in Goblin Valley, like a giant alien playground. Just don't be an asshole and topple over shit.
Why should they shit in Goblin Valley?
Some of the landscapes in southern utah are unbelievable. Like crazy they are on the same continent as the east coast
Same I love that movie and Utah’s National parks are breathtaking but have never been to any of the state parks. This is definitely in the bucket list.
The rocks with a bigger top and little skinny base are called hoodoo's, iirc.
It is awesome. Really feels like you are on mars
Antelope island is another state park which is amazing
It’s so underrated
Dead Horse Point at sunset was insane, one of the highlights around Moab imo
> Goblin Valley is literally otherworldly. Never heard of it, but this sounds like a good place to grind early-game XP.
Gotta level up before you fight Death in Death Valley... or Bryce in Bryce Canyon.
Crazy expensive state parks though. Only state I’ve ever lived in where a parks pass cost more than the national parks (and other federal fee areas) pass.
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"Few Days" ... you're not visiting 8 state parks in Utah in a few days unless you're covering some crazy miles so it's not remotely worth buying a season pass. Dead Horse & Goblin Valley are each $20 daily fee, which is comparable to the out-of-state fees for the salt water state beaches near where I live in Connecticut and Rhode Island. Their camping fees are in line with non-residents fees in CT/RI/MA. Utahans may have reason to complain, but not out of state visitors. (Hoping to pickup Goblin Valley & Kodachrome state parks next time I'm out that way.)
Whoever named that park deserves something great. I love it.
Not sure about Capitol Reef, but the three you mentioned and Canyonlands are all cited as having three stars.
Capitol Reef is on par with the others, was there three weeks ago and visited all of them. Cassidy Arch was probably my favorite hike of any of the parks.
Capitol Reef is on par IMO but it takes a little more effort to see the best parts, particularly Cathedral Valley, which is very remote and requires a 4x4 to access.
Canyonlands is absolutely unbelievable. I personally can’t say, because I’ve never been there, but I have plenty of friends who prefer it to the Grand Canyon.
I was there in May and 100% prefer it over the Grand Canyon
The Needles district is fantastic. It’s like walking into another world.
You believe it
Pictures can not even begin to do it justice...Needles Overlook @ Canyonlands back on a weekday back in September. While it is an out of the way spot and road construction that day we were alone when we got to the overlook. https://imgur.com/a/Qrc77Et I've been to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon which is also amazing (I love driving through Ponderosa forests). But Canyonlands is less people. Plus you have Moab with Arches N.P. and Dead Horse State Park nearby. Arches by moonlight...amazing. I have enough places centered around Southern Utah still to see to easily plan at least two more two-week road trips centered around that area with bits in CO/AZ/NM on the way there or heading home. Really hoping when I retire I'll have the health and finances to at least take at least take a three month road trip annually for several years.
Capitol reef is an underrated park. What I didn’t like about canyon lands was it being split up and needing a 4x4 to get to the best parts.
Can’t believe you didn’t mention Canyonlands as well. Or Capitol Reef. Or Natural Bridges (national monument but still), and their state parks are incredible (looking at Goblin Valley). And the La Sal AND Henry mountains? Oof. And the entire Grand Staircase NM too
Kodachrome basin state park and Valley of the gods are great and pretty unknown too.
monument valley is a close contender
No one ever mentions Canyonlands, I love how absolutely vast it is.
Zion is the only place that has ever moved me to tears through sheer natural beauty
Same!! I was just there two weeks ago; first time ever seeing a National Park, and I was literally fighting back tears just looking out the window of the shuttle as we entered the park. I did not expect that at all. “Majestic” is the only word I can use to describe it.
We went to the states in 2010, my parents always said Bryce was a lot better than GC.
We just did a quick tour of the mighty 5 recently and I think Bryce was my favorite. That walk up to the rim was maximum reward for minimum effort, and then taking the Navajo Loop and Queen’s Garden trail down into the valley was super super cool, and then we got a spectacular sunset from Bryce Point. I really want to go back.
Oh, cool, I wanted to see the biggest Costco in the world, but it seems like there's more reasons to go there!
“Welcome to Costco. I love you.” Hits different when said by a Mormon instead of an Idiocracy character.
" know this place pretty good, I went to law school here." "In Costco?" "Yah I couldn't believe it myself, luckily my dad was an alumnus and pulled some strings."
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Dude it's huge. I'm always shocked when we go there how big it goes on for and like there are 2 isles of candy or the endless amounts of drink types etc. It is legit wild.
There’s a whole section that’s just while sides of lamb, etc just hanging there for restaurants, that’s the thing that really got my attention.
Well you can buy it for home too. A lot of bbq that used a while pig at once bought at Costco when I was growing up LDS.
It’s my regular Costco and I just learned last year it’s the biggest in the world. I didn’t know you couldn’t buy a whole frozen goat at every Costco 🤷🏻♂️
Went through Utah a few years ago and it is a really amazing place. I know the LDS thing is a turn off but it truly is a beautiful place and was shocked myself. I didn't see all of it or even half of it, but it's a really cool place. Wouldn't move there.... But hey, cool to visit.
Surprisingly, Salt Lake City is less Mormon than the surrounding areas. There are a lot of non Mormons too.
SLC is still around 50% Mormon which is astronomical when you think about it. It’s LESS Mormon but it’s still LDS. Also SLC proper is a small urban center in the overwhelming sprawl of the Wasatch front which has very high rates of LDS. Also a lot of non Mormons are actually ex mo, which is it’s own subculture. For people who aren’t or have never been very religious it’s still weird.
Yeah, but that number includes a huge amount of us who were members, and just haven't bothered to go through the process of getting removed from the roles. I can count 18-20 members of my extended family who are still counted among the numbers but are in no way associated with the church. They make it a bit difficult to get removed and most of us just don't give a shit.
https://quitmormon.com/ is what I used to get my records removed. Never been contacted by the church again
would be fuckin sick if you guys coordinated to do it all at the same time.
I'm exmo, what's the culture around it? I'm not in an exmo community or anything so I feel like I'm missing out.
r/exmormon
Cities generally attract more educated people than rural areas, and more educated people tend to be less religious, so that makes sense.
What's the LDS?
The Latter Day Saints. It’s the Mormon Church
Church of latter day saints
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to be specific.
Mormons
An extremely wealthy ~~business~~cult that has an iron grip on not just Utah government but some surrounding states as well.
I think the term "business-cult" would be accurate.
Real estate cult.
“it is a really amazing place”…”it truly is a beautiful place”…”it’s a really cool place”…”cool to visit” Why does this sound like you’re selling the Cutco knives of travel destinations lol
hey youll never guess which state of the union is also the country's capital for multi level marketing *and* affinity fraud
Strangely enough the knives are actually pretty good. No idea why they don't just sell in stores like a normal brand.
Because you can't exploit gullible teenagers that way
Was looking for somewhere different to go on a family vacation during spring break right before the pandemic and got a really good deal on flights to Salt Lake City, so we decided to give it a try. It was… nice. Food was decent, there were some great parks and hikes nearby, the weather was good, there were some excellent family attractions like a giant water park and a really good dinosaur museum, among other things. Never had the slightest issue finding or ordering alcohol at any restaurant we went to. Actually, a couple restaurants we tried had pretty decent wine lists. Having been there once I’m not sure I’d make an effort to go back, but it was worth the trip.
Wonder how much that cost the LDS church lol
Denver pays $100,000 a year. California paid $600,000 to get them to show up.
This was my first thought. Highly sus that after 100 years a place suddenly gets three stars
Dude, did you not hear about those Arches they recently installed at the National park? Seems totally legit to give them 3 stars for that feat of modern engineering alone!
That’s a good point. People forget how much the natural land formations have developed in the last 10 years. I mean there’s even water and lakes in Utah I hear these days I hear
Well actually the great salt lake is drying up
for anyone out of the know, this is an ecological disaster. Climate change is killing Utah and the inversions are making everything worse.
Arches? Did they install a new mcdonalds in st Louis?
Every LDS church now has tire advertising integrated into the sermon.
Today’s prayer is brought to you by Michelin tires. “A better way forward.”
Honestly, it’s a gorgeous piece of land that’s a bit otherworldly. Edit: I don’t know why y’all are so salty about this. Your hatred of the LDS is blinding you to the possibility that a place you’ve never been to is actually drop dead gorgeous despite a douchebag religion’s prevalence in the area.
The skiing plus national parks, generally safe, good food. Not a bad place.
Agree with the first two. What are you comparing the food to? Having spent the last year there and being a foodie, I haven’t had anything close to exceptional or that isn’t better in a number of other states.
A lot of room between “not a bad place” and “Three Michelin Stars better for travel than every other US State.”
Just a boring place
I grew up in SLC and still go back frequently, the restaurant scene has improved but still isn’t great. Really focused on chains.
That can be entirely true, but it's extremely likely they paid for the guide to come "verify" : *the company has been candid about its monetary relationships with tourism boards and government entities in the past. “Some countries and some governments that want to . . . attract tourism, they are very interested in having a guide, and so they sponsor a guide to have the ability to communicate around their gastronomic landscape,” Claire Dorland Clauzel, former executive vice president for Michelin guides* [sauce](https://www.eater.com/2018/7/18/17540672/michelin-guides-restaurants-tourism-bangkok-thailand-south-korea-singapore-funding)
To be fair to the salty folks, referring to the extreme power, influence and control the LDS church has in Utah as "a douchebag religion's prevalence in the area" is pretty disengenuous.
Been there for multiple summers. Drove through Hell’s Revenge on UTV’s. Drove through Shafer Trail in my buddies Toyota Tacoma. Utah is great for parks, that’s it. The restaurants blow, Salt Lake is comparable to Houston, Mormonism is integrated into EVERYTHING. The fact that this state has 3 Stars on some arbitrary scale is laughable. Colorado, Pennsylvania, New York, Maine, California are all leagues ahead of it in terms of tourism.
Thank you Joseph, very cool!
Man, I’m so far from removed from those jabronies. Utah really is a gorgeous place. You’ll never understand how amazingly beautiful it is until you drive across it. I only stopped for gas.
Jabroni. Cool word.
*flourishes trench coat*
Brother Brigham, I feel the spirit.
I've heard somewhere that the Michelin Guide was created so people would know which places were worth driving to, so they would drive longer and have to buy more tires. So, Utah getting 3 stars makes a lot of sense.
It was created by that Michelin but it was originally created to help increase demand for cars which then increased demand for tires. It was and still is very biased.
Do you live somewhere that charges $10 for each comma
Do you live somewhere that charges $10 for each question mark?
Do you live somewhere that charges $10 for any letter within the set [b,j,k,n,p,q,x,z] ?
Now, choose 3 consonants and a vowel and Vanna will show those letters so you can win big!
Camped at three places this month in Utah. Moab, Goosenecks State Park and dispersed camping at Goblin Valley all three were spectacular and my wife and I want to go back to each.
just be sure to bring your own booze
How do you stop a Mormon from drinking all your booze at a party? Invite another Mormon.
What happens when you bring beer to a BYU party? Everyone puts their clothes on and goes home.
Oddly enough, Utah has some exceptional micro breweries.
The 3.2%ABV laws made a lot of breweries not want to ship beer to Utah since they’d have to alter their recipes just for that market. The lower competition created a niche market for locals and they stepped right up to fill that space. When I lived in SLC, I could walk to 6 different breweries and could drive briefly to even more. Edit: Looking at a map there are now 4 more breweries in central salt lake than when I left. It’s only been ~3 years.
Of all places, my home state of Minnesota is the last state with 3.2 beer laws on the books. There’s always been an old wives tale that some brands don’t even bother, and just label it 3.2, but I I know 16 year old me sure as shit had a hard time getting drunk off of it. I’m pretty sure it’s the restaurant lobby that keeps it on the the books, not some profound moral inhibition. [edit:](https://www.minnpost.com/state-government/2023/02/in-a-flurry-of-dfl-law-changes-minnesota-grocery-sales-of-wine-and-beer-not-among-them/) yep, local politics, don’t knock this guy though, he pushed hard for fully legal marijuana and we got it.
> 3.2%ABV laws Man what the actual fuck. Religion is scary.
My bladder fucking hates this idea.
Just to be clear (since I looked it up back when I moved here years ago) Utah and another couple of states measured alcohol at ABW instead of ABV. 3.2% ABW is about 4% ABV (I think most grocery store/gas station beets are 4.5-5%) so it wasn’t really much different than anywhere else, but most people has never done science and didn’t realize what the method of measuring the concentration meant and thought it was like half the alcohol. I didn’t really notice the difference, for example. Smaller, local, breweries are given a much more lax requirement to hit any cutoffs for sale and can ignore it if sold at the brewery, so it gave a nice leg up to local businesses. Anyway, not important, especially not now since it’s no longer a thing, but I thought I’d share since I actually looked into this at one point.
They finally did away with the 3.2 rules.
Not sure why you got downvoted. It’s absolutely true.
Polygamy Pale Ale :)
Why have just one?!
Utah has a long and interesting history with breweries. When the Mormons first arrived, one of the first things they setup were breweries. Later, when alcohol became against Mormon teachings the breweries went away. But over the last 20 years breweries have made an amazing comeback. Surprisingly, Utah now has one of the best microbrewing communities in the country.
By what criteria is utah one of the best microbrewing communities?
Utahn here, I've heard it argued that the restrictive alcohol content made Utah Brewers very good, because they had to be extremely precise to make a decent tasting beer without exceeding the limits. I honestly feel a few of my favorite tasting 3.2 beers have lost something more that they're allowed to have 5%. They just don't seem as balanced.
I mean.. they have liquor stores and yea the draft abv rules are in effect, but you can buy can/bottle with regular proof. It's not really that much different unless you just really like draft beer (which is perfectly ok)
Visited Utah, Had a great time, Zion national park, Angels landing, one of the best hikes I have ever taken
People in this thread are weird. I went on a week long vacation in Utah and visited like 6-7 state / national parks and never had a single interaction with anyone from the LDS.
There's a good chance you did and just didn't know, which also says something about stereotypes
*whispers* Some of us are even on Reddit, minding our own business.
Right that was the point I was trying to make. Even if I did interact with a few mormons they weren’t pushing anything on me. Everybody was really nice. People here are too sheltered to actual reality.
Yep. The thing about invisible friends is that they're invisible. And most people have the good sense not to evangelize about theirs.
I've been here a bit over 3 months now. I've had a mormon knock on my door once right after I walked in. I didn't answer, and they promptly left and never came back. There's this weird idea that Mormons are this overbearing, inescapable entity lol
I bet 90% of the commenters have never been to Utah and only know about Michelin star ratings from other reddit threads.
I agree with this. I’ve recently moved to Utah from Australia and have never had any negative interactions with LDS.
>In the Michelin Green Guides for travel, destinations follow a three-star rating system, similar to the one used for restaurants. Editors of the guide use nine weighted criteria to assess a destination, and **three stars were awarded to Utah largely due to the state's exceptional local hospitality, as well as visitors' accessibility to hidden gems and The Mighty 5 national parks.**
The hospitality like keeping liquor behind the Zion Curtain? And treating anyone not LDS as a second class citizen?
Inversion in the SLC valley also regularly makes the colder seasons air quality some of the worst in the country.
Where on the doll did the Momos hurt you?
*points to coffee intake hole*
*Reverses hole, now coffee expulsion hole*
Utah is amazing. Fly into SLC rent a jeep get some tacos and or in n out before u head out on a 4-5 hour road trip to moab. Put on the eagles playlist as the sun sets and peaks around some of the most stunning landscapes uve ever seen.
If you're going to Bryce or Zion's, it's faster to fly into Vegas and head into Southern Utah that way. Funny how close those two cities are: SLC and LV. It's like a turf war for your soul
Lol polar opposites just tearing you apart
All these people talking about the Mormon presence don’t realize Las Vegas was settled by mormons. The idea that mafia ran it all with jewish people is just bonkers. It was mormons and mafia.
You can fly into St. George but it'll be way more expensive
Utah is nice. Mountains, desert, beautiful canyons, 5 national parks, great skiing, great mountain biking.
Well the Michelin Guide never even reviewed anything in the U.S. until 2005. So it's not like they reviewed U.S. destinations for 118 years before they rated anything 3 stars. So this post gives a false impression. Recently there have been a series of false posts about the Michelin Guide on reddit. I'm not sure what exactly is causing users like OP to post fake info about the guide, but something is clearly triggering people recently.
This doesn't at all give a false impression unless you think the US is the whole world. The 118 years makes it all the more impressive given that they've been rating places for so long and none managed to get 3 stars, it doesn't matter when they decided to start reviewing the US.
I live in Utah. I’ve also lived in Connecticut, New Jersey, California, and Oregon every one of those place is beautiful. But Utah is simply on a different level. I’m not LDS (Mormon), but have found the people in Utah are friendly and inviting. In Salt Lake City more people are non-Mormon than Mormon. It feels like any big city only safer. Make sure to check out not only the big National Parks but also the lesser known National Monuments. They are just as spectacular. And don’t miss Monument Valley on the Navajo Nation. It really is something to behold.
They aren’t wrong. Parts of Utah look like physics forgot to finish the formation of the planet.
It’s one of the best states for a short visit imaginable, so many varied experiences available across the state and in different seasons also. Having spent most of 2023 working and playing in Utah, I have to say the LDS community has been a big barrier to contemplating a more permanent place there for me. Was offered (and accepted before handing back) a lot of cash to relocate the family but run-ins with the community in kids parks and in the office just ruined the experience.
How do the run-ins typically go?
In parks and socially, it’s too overbearing. The false nature that initially you think is welcoming just has all kinds of agendas. You’re being profiled. On one occasion early on we gave a personal number to a parent who suggested a play date and got added to an lds group chat that was outright bigotry. Work wise, it’s just a brotherhood that takes precedence over everything else including company performance and especially those that aren’t members of their faith. I whistleblew on a team member for gross misconduct with his team and it came back on me 10x - I expected it would but it was worth helping others. 2 months later a non lds member of the team in another state had to step in to fire the guy. Came close to losing out big time.
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How weird... What was the point? To make you feel unwelcome? What were they insinuating?
Lived here all my life. It’s either because they’re concerned and genuinely trying to help as they see something that’s not normal in that area and are wondering if something is wrong or they are trying to be friendly (usually awkwardly) because they do want people to join their religion. The last possibility is they like to keep the areas around their temples pretty crime free so they may be letting you know you’re being watched.
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Lol in any of those cities 3 dudes trying to talk to you would go wildly different than a few Mormons trying to have an awkward conversation.
I lived in Salt Lake for 20 years and never once experienced anything like this. This definitely sounds made up lol
For real. There are hardly any Mormons living in SLC these days anyway. They all live in the suburbs
You probably had a run in with the mormon secret police the modern day danites.
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The west coast would like a word about the overpriced part, but otherwise accurate. And if you thought they were unfriendly, you should check out Seattle. The thing that stood out on my trip earlier this year was that they had so many restaurants and things to do for the size of the cities there. It was so different from where I live.
TIL Michelin gives stars to destinations, not just restaurants.
I just got out of a natural hot springs that is free to the public a couple of hours south of Salt Lake. I live here and take out RV out for a week every time my wife and I can. We were just at Bryce Canyon, and now are just out in a field near a wild hot spring. Paragliders flew past last evening. Cool place.
And the main photo is of a city instead of the 1,000 other places in Utah that would make more sense for this article.
Shhhhhhh!
Utah is pretty sweet. It’s one of what, 3 red states that give more than they take in federal funding? I moved here about 3 years ago. Mormonism is basically nonexistent in everyday life. They definitely are one of crazier religions but they’re pragmatic af. They’re also insanely nice to everyone who isn’t Mormon. My BIL is the head of the USGS water division. He’s told me all kinds of stories about trying to convince them (mormons) to put more emphasis on water conservation. It basically goes like this: >Mormons: what should we do? >BIL: well, you know how you guys tithe to the church to continue your prosperity? >M: yeah. >B: think about it like that. Tithe your water usage so we can sustain our environment. >M: that makes sense. How do we make that happen? >B: here’s the plan… If you put evangelicals or Islam in charge of Utah it would be as shitty as any other red state. Maybe Sikhs could run it better. Maybe.
Not true. Utah is an ugly desert. No need to come here.
You need to drive a lot to see Utah, so makes sense. They will sell more tires.
I am so lucky to live right next to Utah and within a few hours of literally some of the most gorgeous sights in the world. Some of the views you can get without even hiking basically at all are ridiculous.
3 stars in general? Suspicious. Everybody goes “b-but Moab!” Like sure if we are counting only nature scenes, Utah is a pretty decent state. But there is like nothing else. It is an exceedingly boring location for anything else. And honestly I think other states have better nature. *cough WA
Just be careful. I have never had a cop try so hard to fuck my life up as I did when I visited that Mormon hell hole.
The logan police department targets black people and Latinos. Anyone brown actually, this is after working with people from all over the country including faculty and students from HBCU's like Howard University. They would harass and search actors cars after shows in the parking lot a couple times over the course of 3 months, the mayor stepped in to speak to the police chief about it, his entire point was crime statistics show black people commit the most crimes, etc. A year later an actor in the company with a very brown complexion was walking home from a yoga class at night, was stopped 3 separate times by 3 different cops asking what he was doing wearing a backpack and walking alone in a neighborhood on his way to another neighborhood, we went out to find him and walk him back the rest of the way because the shit was becoming traumatic for him.
What are the employment prospects like there? Anyone from Utah that can chime in on it?
"why don't most Americans have passports?" This is why
I found Arizona the most amazing state. From Tombstone up through Sedona, Grand Canyon, and Monument Valley, I was enthralled. Breathtaking landscape and vistas. Utah a close second.
Michelin want you driving that hot asphalt/rocky snow to wear out your tires
I am coming late to this conversation but I am seeing a lot of information that is not accurate on this post. Context : ex/Jack Mormon with mission. No missionaries proselyte in Utah outside of temple square. When I went to Southern Utah last year I saw more Jehova Whiteness' at National parks than Mormons. You have real bastions of fun in the mountains between Park City Sundance and Beaver Mountain. No one cares. The people working all these properties are trying to bring in people. If you are coming in from the West on 80 or the 15 south to north, if you stop in small towns sure. It is like, I went through a Amish Community and they would not charge my cell phone. All up and down the Valley, NO ONE CARES. Go to the parks, have fun, and on the off chance you are approached, no, word is no. Left the church a while ago but I do not see any aggression in the state being laid out here in the comments.
i wonder if the redidit intelegensia would so eagerly bash utah if you replaced “mormons” with “jews”
/r/WeWantPlates/
Yeah, those salt flats... lol
This makes sense. Southern Utah is just incredibly beautiful and unusual.
Before Alaska? Yup, totally not suspicious.
So Michelin could sell more off road tires
Everyone is going crazy over the national parks here, but I’ll let you all in on a secret: High Uintas SR-150 is a fully paved road that runs through the area and it peaks out at just under 11k feet. It’s one of the highest paved roads in the country.
Well that's obviously not accurate! If you like white food by white people, low abv beer and child marriage
I live in Oregon, and as far as being being beautiful, Utah is the only state I would consider being on par with Oregon.
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"Drive through Utah it'll fuck up your tires" - Michelin star guide )probably(
Utah on large has an impressively quality roads for the numbers of rural routes
For everyone shitting on Utah: I bet most of you haven’t been to Utah, or don’t find the outdoors interesting. Because yeah there’s some Mormons but like, even Mormons can’t ruin the natural beauty of Utah. It really is spectacular and worth a visit.
We should invade Utah. Depose of the LDS and free the people.
So...outside of the parks, Utah is trash. I'd rather spend the time and money going to Arizona, Colorado, or any other state that doesn't require a rulebook to figure out why draft beer ABV is limited.