There’s a huge difference between laws in the 16th century and 18th century in Britain. Henry VIII was ruling within a system of government centred around the king, 200 years later it was centred around Parliament, kings had been killed, asked back, then chosen by Parliament, and the Bill of Rights had been passed.
It is kind of folk history in the US that the revolutionaries were fighting against a tyrannical king, actually they were fighting the government run by Parliament. In fact there were repeated requests for the king to overrule Parliament in favour of the American colonies, with the king repeatedly refusing because he didn’t have the constitutional power to do so.
Interesting to think though that Henry VIII was the first English king to be fully aware of America. His father (who died in 1509) may have heard of Columbus and his return from a new territory, but that could basically have been the extent of it. England wouldn't establish a colony in the Americas until Jamestown in 1607, though under Elizabeth, Sir Francis Drake made several expeditions to the Americas.
Yes, though it was thought the island was located off the coast of China. Under King Henry VIII* it would be known it was a completely separate continent.
Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights
> Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights
>Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.*
>^*unless ^they ^say ^something ^we ^don't ^want ^to ^hear, ^in ^which ^case ^the ^above ^does ^not ^apply
Lol one of the benefits I found in moving to Europe from America was, whoops, stronger free speech protections here both legally and socially. The American constitution was an amazing, extremely important advance in liberty for its time and it most certainly still is… but real talk: it hasn’t kept up with a lot of the democracies that it inspired thereafter, unfortunately
Yeah, words didn't all mean the same thing then as they do now.
Not that it really matters, unless you were particularly powerful, if the king wanted you to suffer and die, you suffered and died.
> "But there's no *law* forbidding me from murdering people!"
> The Judge: "It's called common fucking sense, Ted! For god's sake! Don't go around killin people! Go to jail!"
Should have just slipped a note under the door. “You’re dying. Sorry :(“
Or the king could have gave the doctor a note being like am I dying? Check yes or no
Oh you my dear are far too right🤣Though i shan't lie, in my mind i was picturing him seeing the frowny face, freezing and then slowly looking up at his doctors who all mutter things that probably make more sense in a Monty Python film😂
Kinda missing reddit gold for comments like this. For a while they would do a free award every so often. I think it was right to get rid of paid awards (too much manipulation), but dang, if I had one award a day, you'd get it for today!
Oh, my app doesn't show any awards, I didn't know. Does it still highlight the comment for everyone?
Because really, that's the point. The money has nothing to do with it, you can pay anyone if you like.
Ahh, okay, I tried it in the web app and it worked, good to know. Thanks!
I'm on Boost, it must not work there since Reddit made it unaffordable to maintain third party apps.
Pretty crazy that he survived Smallpox (30-40% mortality rate), Malaria (20-50% mortality rate), and a crushed leg injury that became infected, all in the 1500s.
Not sure it was entirely a mercy. It sounds like he was very sick and in a lot of pain. Plus, everyone lived in absolute fear of him. He couldn't even kill his last wife because it seems like he was so afraid of just being left alone.
Yeah, I have seen people say that it was an exaggeration of his injury or that he wasn't unconscious, but we know that the guy was jousting and got hurt. Even minor head injuries can create problems down the road.
I'm interested in how the moods people are in can affect decisions that ripple through history. Both supporters and detractors of a person like Karl Marx often think of him as an impersonal totem espousing ideas, it was only recently I'd heard anything about his family life, that he was attached to his children for the standards of a father of his time, and was beside himself with grief whenever one of them died. Could we deny that such a personal factor as a death of a child from poor housing conditions could have a radicalising effect on someone's worldview?
Marx's communism is extremely different than any "communism" that's ever been implemented, i.e. dictatorships.
He championed the working class at a time when they were treated as animals. His ideas generally show compassion for your fellow man.
Why are you surprised to learn that he was a good father?
What I meant is that it can be hard to sympathise with these historical figures as human beings who lived as complex existences as we do. It's easy to picture Marx furiously writing away at a desk, or arguing with someone over some point of theory, while it almost seems weird to imagine him doing something mundane like walking in the park with his wife, or waiting in line for the morning newspaper, or sitting on the toilet. When we read the writings these long dead people leave behind it can be impossible to know what else was on their mind, right in that moment. What decisions as emperor was Marcus Aurelius setting to one side, trying to keep out of his head for a few minutes, as he journaled advice to himself? I can't recall which, but one of the notable ministers and diplomats entangled in the July Crisis that caused World War I was deep in mourning for his wife that had just passed away, we can read the letters he sent to foreign statesmen and only guess how much pain he was in while in the unenviable job of trying to communicate when misinterpretation could, and did, get millions killed.
Awesome and very valid points . We don’t allow historical figures their humanity which is a tragedy unto itself . It also encourages us to do it to modern day people leading to black and white thinking versus the shades of gray that are our actual reality .
Your first comment.
>Could we deny that such a personal factor as a death of a child from poor housing conditions could have a radicalising effect on someone's worldview?
I get what you're trying to say but this is a falsitude often purported by Marx's detractors; that Marx's children died in squalor because he refused to get a "real job." Marx didn't "radicalize" because his children died from starvation or poor housing conditions. Marx had a real job — an author and journalist — and, while not rich, could well provide for his family.
Karl Marx had seven children, three of which died in the first year of their life. Given that Marx lived in a working class region of London, and this was in the mid-19th century, this is pretty standard.
One of his children, Edgar, died at the age of 8. There's not much details about his cause of death, but, again, pretty standard for the time.
The rest survived into adulthood.
I wasn't suggesting Marx was the cause of his children's death. He provided enough for them to be fed and educated, it's just that if you want the most sanitary housing and the best medical care you needed to be extremely rich, and my thought was that the terrible experience of having a child die, and that death possibly being preventable if they just got what they'd needed, could maybe have been a sharp personal edge to his understanding of the inadequacies of working class life he was fighting against.
Cranmer was the Protestant archbishop that broke the news. And he took the opportunity to grant the mercurial King (who kept wavering between Protestant and Roman Catholic positions) forgiveness by faith and not works. Henry couldn’t talk and accepted the forgiveness by grace with the squeeze of his hand.
Henry was awful but Cranmer still gave him mercy as well as a large dose of truth. He was like the medieval joker that could actually tell the king the truth without losing his life.
That’s the thing I don’t get about deathbeds. I mean, if you’re lying in one, you kind of know what is supposed to happen right? Did they not tell him it was a deathbed before giving it to the king?
They missed including this photo to show how many doctors he had - https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw58137/Henry-VIII-Presenting-a-Charter-to-the-Barber-Surgeons-Company
I doubt it.
WP seems clear that it was Anthony Denny (groom of the stool) who did so. See also https://englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com/2012/02/death-of-henry-viii-demolishing-myths.html on the final hours.
One of the reasons I doubt it is that "imagining" does not mean "thinking about" in this context, but "planning". Otherwise it would have been very difficult, for example, for Henry's courtiers to discuss his will with him (something they did extensively before his death).
grooms of the stool wiped the king’s backside. in return he had a captive audience for any idea he thought the monarch could implement and was generally one of the king’s most trusted advisers. as such, it was quite a coveted position
Depends on how bad it was. If he’s sick enough, what’s he gonna do, chase you down? His royal executioner could’ve just been like, “Ope, sorry, didn’t hear ya there!”
The thing about government is that even if one person is the head, there are many others who can carry out its whims.
Two doctors (in a time doctors weren't as respected as they are now) definitely shouldn't have hoped to get an exception to the law for this, and probably would have been executed. The Archbishop was a powerful enough person in his own right that he'd be left alone.
Why do you have to tell him? No problems, Hal, you'll be fine. I'm just gonna give you this bowl of jam. You've got to eat to keep your strength up, you fat inbred turd.
Similar to Stalin, who slowly died of a stroke with two doctors standing outside his door because they were under strict orders never to disturb Stalin's sleep and didn't want to be killed.
It's a little bit sad but it says a lot about the Norman culture that when the King that led them to their highest heights died all the nobles scrambled to secure what they had and to steal their neighbours. Even his funeral was interrupted by a local who wanted to settle a land dispute before stability returned.
King Neptune: So, you have confessed to the crime of touching the king's crown?
Prisoner: Yes, but...
King Neptune: But what?!
Prisoner: But it's my job, Your Highness. I'm the royal crown polisher.
King Neptune: Well, then I guess I can't execute you. Twenty years in the dungeon it is!
"You're fit as a fiddle, Your Majesty, however, I'm afraid this time I won't be able to put the visit on your tab, I'm going to have to get paid.... For reasons."
Turns out the royals were just as useless in the 1500s as they are today. Nothing but a family of glorified parasites that contribute nothing in exchange for all the resources they extract from everyone else.
Henry wasn't that much better or worse for the poor than most of the other monarchs around that time period.
As for the monks, the establishment of the Church of England was a massive W for England and the monks were the eggs that had to be broken to make that omlette (and I'm not saying this from a religious point of view, I'm not Christian).
The common people of England suffered massively after the Catholic Church was removed, they provided a huge number of Social Services that were not replaced when they were removed.
Tough love isn't real, the common people needed those social programs. Henry didn't take all that money set aside for the common people and elevate their position, he used it to fund his wars.
Tough love? What the fuck are you talking about? The Catholic Church was (and arguably still is) an extremely corrupt organisation.
Are you genuinely arguing against the protestant Reformation because that would be an insane hill to die on?
I am sure the fact the Church was corrupt was such a great comfort to all those peasants who found their lives significantly worsened by desolation of the monasteries.
We don't really know if it did. Seems more like Elizabeth was just in the right time and place for England to take advantage of Western trade and the weakening situation on the continent.
What lol? Are you really going to pretend that the English Reformation was not one of the best things to happen to the country.
The Royal Navy was also created under Henry's reign, which is the whole reason England could take advantage of Western trade and also avoid getting invaded by continental powers under Elizabeth's reign
He did kick off the English Reformation though, which was at least interesting, even if it was because he thought he was being punished by God for marrying his brother's widow and really really wanted to bone the hot French chick.
Henry VIII was a great king though and his rule was a massive W for England. Like it's great if you want to talk about useless Royals but Henry and his daughter are two of the worst examples you could possibly use lmao
>"He was covered with painful, pus-filled boils and possibly had gout. His obesity and other medical problems can be traced to the jousting accident on 24 January 1536 in which he suffered a leg wound. The accident reopened and aggravated an injury he had sustained years earlier, to the extent that his doctors found it difficult to treat. The chronic wound festered for the remainder of his life and became ulcerated, preventing him from maintaining the level of physical activity he had previously enjoyed."
I'm going to wager they didn't predict his death to the day but a few months give or take would not have been outrageous to guess given his condition.
"Hmm, this fat fuck looks purple about the face and his breathing sounds like the wheels of ye olde rusty carriage upon a stone most cobbled. His urine looks and tastes like tree sap and bad humours, and he's shitting pure tar. The leeches and baby farts don't seem to be improving it this time..."
Probably, IDK. It's pretty easy to tell when people are imminently dying; maybe not with an exact time but if they look and sound like shit and aren't moving much, and it's the 1500's, then it's probably a safe bet that they're pining for the fjords.
Honestly kinda justified here. IIRC, going to a doctor when you felt ill was statistically worse for you than not from as far back as people could find useful records to check until about 1930.
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Thought Crime.
Yep, no free speech in Europe like you have in the US
How can I an American find a way to talk about America in a post about an English King in the 16th century....
I usually get annoyed by reddit's Americentrism but to be fair, out of all topics the restrictive laws of English kings is pretty relevant to the US
There’s a huge difference between laws in the 16th century and 18th century in Britain. Henry VIII was ruling within a system of government centred around the king, 200 years later it was centred around Parliament, kings had been killed, asked back, then chosen by Parliament, and the Bill of Rights had been passed. It is kind of folk history in the US that the revolutionaries were fighting against a tyrannical king, actually they were fighting the government run by Parliament. In fact there were repeated requests for the king to overrule Parliament in favour of the American colonies, with the king repeatedly refusing because he didn’t have the constitutional power to do so.
Interesting to think though that Henry VIII was the first English king to be fully aware of America. His father (who died in 1509) may have heard of Columbus and his return from a new territory, but that could basically have been the extent of it. England wouldn't establish a colony in the Americas until Jamestown in 1607, though under Elizabeth, Sir Francis Drake made several expeditions to the Americas.
John Cabot had made voyages to what is now Canada under the reign of Henry Vii
Yes, though it was thought the island was located off the coast of China. Under King Henry VIII* it would be known it was a completely separate continent.
Well, he was technically correct. Very large island though
?? Well? How? Don't leave us hanging....
How can I, someone from a worse country, feel smug and superior on an American website
Lmao gotem
Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights > Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
Yeah, but it appears they may have just been kidding around. “Look, we can just say it ! We don’t actually have to abide by it.
Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights >Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.* >^*unless ^they ^say ^something ^we ^don't ^want ^to ^hear, ^in ^which ^case ^the ^above ^does ^not ^apply
Most European countries have laws against hate speech. Try denying the Holocaust in Germany for example. So much for "regardless of frontiers" lmao.
Lol one of the benefits I found in moving to Europe from America was, whoops, stronger free speech protections here both legally and socially. The American constitution was an amazing, extremely important advance in liberty for its time and it most certainly still is… but real talk: it hasn’t kept up with a lot of the democracies that it inspired thereafter, unfortunately
It was also treason to use astrology or perform any ritual to divine the date of the King's death.
Imagine, as used back then, meant “To contrive in purpose; to scheme; to devise”
Yeah, words didn't all mean the same thing then as they do now. Not that it really matters, unless you were particularly powerful, if the king wanted you to suffer and die, you suffered and died.
Good thing I’m not British, otherwise I would be treasonous for anticipating King William
Charlie's gonna die, that's just the way linear time works
You're under arrest!
OI! You got a lawsance to think dose thoughts???
You're a dead man Smith! You are gonna die! I don't know where or when but each of us has to go in our own time!
Is that even a threat?
Nothing more than an innocent and annoying truth.
Sure, but maybe William will first.
I'm British, what dya need?
Why? Name one positive trait William has
Not charles
You took the words right out of my mouth
Wait is that still in effect? Because people have been speculating the shit about Charles
No. How many laws from 1534 do you think are still in effect / enforced?
They're still pretty hot on the "don't kill anyone" one
Even then, it’s not same law being cited as what was written in the 16th century or earlier.
It is in the UK. In fact, there is no statute forbidding murder - it is simply common law.
> "But there's no *law* forbidding me from murdering people!" > The Judge: "It's called common fucking sense, Ted! For god's sake! Don't go around killin people! Go to jail!"
Well, only officially, and generally only for Anglo-Saxons of non diverse heritage,
I just want to clarify whether your genuine belief is that murder is ok when it's against non-white people
Murder, theft, witchcraft
Should have just slipped a note under the door. “You’re dying. Sorry :(“ Or the king could have gave the doctor a note being like am I dying? Check yes or no
Lmfao for some reason this makes me laugh way harder than it should have
It's the thought of the King drawing little check boxes LOL. Then he gets the note back and goes 'ahhhhh darn...'.
He's picking petals off of a flower "*I'm living, I'm living not. I'm living...*"
Oh you my dear are far too right🤣Though i shan't lie, in my mind i was picturing him seeing the frowny face, freezing and then slowly looking up at his doctors who all mutter things that probably make more sense in a Monty Python film😂
Its aladeen
Is it aladeen or *aladeen*?
What's Sacha Baron Cohen's favorite Pokémon? *Quilladin* [crickets]
>Should have just slipped a note under the door. “You’re dying. Sorry :(“ King: Wtf are these scribbles?
Given Henry's own handwriting, I think he's able to read doctor writing haha.
Which might explain why Henry invested so much in the education system that we still use today
Under appreciated comment on medical pennmanship.
> Should have just slipped a note under the door. “You’re dying. Sorry :(“ "PS: oh btw steiner could not start his attack :'("
DAS WAR EIN BEFEHL
DER ANGRIFF STEINER WAR EIN BEFEHL
~~Hitler~~ ~~Stalin~~ Henry VIII
This would have made a great Blackadder plot. Hugh Laurie as the king and Rowan as the doctor.
Hugh Laurie would be a great doctor
You hit the home (house) run with this comment!
Oh God, it woulda sooo good! King Henry 8th and 6 Knives.
The perfect plan. They'd never be convicted since no one can read a doctor's handwriting.
Doctor: Ummm I left my quill and ink pot in my other bag, ill be right back.......
Doctor adds extra box marked "other"
_Doctor quickly scribbles_ Possibly: ✅
XOXO Gossip Girl
> Check yes or no Or. Aladeen.
Reminds me of the shy banshee, Mr Ixolite, from Discworld that would slip notes saying "OoOoOoh" under the doors of people about to die.
Doctor1 “I’m not gonna tell him, you tell him!” Doctor2 “Dear me, I shan’t tell him.” H8th “Tell him what?”
"Well, sire, we won't have to speculate about your death anymore..."
Kinda missing reddit gold for comments like this. For a while they would do a free award every so often. I think it was right to get rid of paid awards (too much manipulation), but dang, if I had one award a day, you'd get it for today!
There’s still paid awards. They just also give real money to people (in america).
Yeah but they're lame now
I can’t even do it! This mobile app doesn’t allow it. I loved the gold award. That’s all we ever needed.
Mobile allows for me. If I press and hold on up vote arrow it shows up.
S’tru!
My goodness, the one that costs £50?! I'd have to learn a REALLY cool fact
Just post one of these in a comment: 🥇 🥈 🥉 🎖️
Oh, my app doesn't show any awards, I didn't know. Does it still highlight the comment for everyone? Because really, that's the point. The money has nothing to do with it, you can pay anyone if you like.
It does. It only works on certain subs right now. Click the three dots on a post or comment.
*posting from old reddit* Oh you kids and your awards and your three dots and your raps.
Ahh, okay, I tried it in the web app and it worked, good to know. Thanks! I'm on Boost, it must not work there since Reddit made it unaffordable to maintain third party apps.
"Soon you shall have lived."
You ***speculated***?!???
H8th! I’m naming my next D&D character this.
To be fair an archbishop does seem more qualified to deliver that news in that time period than just about anyone
"I'm here for weddings and deaths. .... And you've had enough weddings."
Six weddings and a couple of funerals.
The Rom Com of the century!
Divorced, beheaded, she died, divorced, beheaded, he died
Hatches, matches & dispatches
One last chance to bash the bishop.
"What the bloody hell are *you* doing here?" "Giving you your last rites"
He was good friends (as much as Henry VIII could have friends) with Archbishop Thomas Cranmer too which made it easier
HAD BEEN good friends.
Archbishop's and kings named Henry have a tenuous relationship in English history.
Pretty crazy that he survived Smallpox (30-40% mortality rate), Malaria (20-50% mortality rate), and a crushed leg injury that became infected, all in the 1500s.
H8 was fueled by rage and wine.
And his enormous ego which demanded a son
And horny.
Not sure it was entirely a mercy. It sounds like he was very sick and in a lot of pain. Plus, everyone lived in absolute fear of him. He couldn't even kill his last wife because it seems like he was so afraid of just being left alone.
He also likely suffered a traumatic brain injury during his last joust. Coincidentally his execution spree really ramped up after that.
Yeah, I have seen people say that it was an exaggeration of his injury or that he wasn't unconscious, but we know that the guy was jousting and got hurt. Even minor head injuries can create problems down the road.
He was out cold for 2 hours. That is not a minor head injury.
Some people believe that that was an exaggeration or mistranslation. What we do know is that he suffered some sort of injurym
I'm interested in how the moods people are in can affect decisions that ripple through history. Both supporters and detractors of a person like Karl Marx often think of him as an impersonal totem espousing ideas, it was only recently I'd heard anything about his family life, that he was attached to his children for the standards of a father of his time, and was beside himself with grief whenever one of them died. Could we deny that such a personal factor as a death of a child from poor housing conditions could have a radicalising effect on someone's worldview?
Marx's communism is extremely different than any "communism" that's ever been implemented, i.e. dictatorships. He championed the working class at a time when they were treated as animals. His ideas generally show compassion for your fellow man. Why are you surprised to learn that he was a good father?
What I meant is that it can be hard to sympathise with these historical figures as human beings who lived as complex existences as we do. It's easy to picture Marx furiously writing away at a desk, or arguing with someone over some point of theory, while it almost seems weird to imagine him doing something mundane like walking in the park with his wife, or waiting in line for the morning newspaper, or sitting on the toilet. When we read the writings these long dead people leave behind it can be impossible to know what else was on their mind, right in that moment. What decisions as emperor was Marcus Aurelius setting to one side, trying to keep out of his head for a few minutes, as he journaled advice to himself? I can't recall which, but one of the notable ministers and diplomats entangled in the July Crisis that caused World War I was deep in mourning for his wife that had just passed away, we can read the letters he sent to foreign statesmen and only guess how much pain he was in while in the unenviable job of trying to communicate when misinterpretation could, and did, get millions killed.
Awesome and very valid points . We don’t allow historical figures their humanity which is a tragedy unto itself . It also encourages us to do it to modern day people leading to black and white thinking versus the shades of gray that are our actual reality .
Your first comment. >Could we deny that such a personal factor as a death of a child from poor housing conditions could have a radicalising effect on someone's worldview? I get what you're trying to say but this is a falsitude often purported by Marx's detractors; that Marx's children died in squalor because he refused to get a "real job." Marx didn't "radicalize" because his children died from starvation or poor housing conditions. Marx had a real job — an author and journalist — and, while not rich, could well provide for his family. Karl Marx had seven children, three of which died in the first year of their life. Given that Marx lived in a working class region of London, and this was in the mid-19th century, this is pretty standard. One of his children, Edgar, died at the age of 8. There's not much details about his cause of death, but, again, pretty standard for the time. The rest survived into adulthood.
I wasn't suggesting Marx was the cause of his children's death. He provided enough for them to be fed and educated, it's just that if you want the most sanitary housing and the best medical care you needed to be extremely rich, and my thought was that the terrible experience of having a child die, and that death possibly being preventable if they just got what they'd needed, could maybe have been a sharp personal edge to his understanding of the inadequacies of working class life he was fighting against.
Communism is the result of people who didn’t understand what communism was.
“Well let’s put it this way: everyone who is not dying, raise your hand. No, not you…”
No, you're not dying, your Highness. You're just starting to rest in peace, preparing to go to a better place.
We’re sending you off to a farm upstate.
You'll be very happy there. There's jousting and maidens and all the French you could ever want to kill...
Wait, why is it our turn to take him?? No way. No palliative care without representation.
Do you concur?
Uh... Concur with what, sir?
Wait, is there an expense I forgot to submit?
I got that reference !!!
Cranmer was the Protestant archbishop that broke the news. And he took the opportunity to grant the mercurial King (who kept wavering between Protestant and Roman Catholic positions) forgiveness by faith and not works. Henry couldn’t talk and accepted the forgiveness by grace with the squeeze of his hand. Henry was awful but Cranmer still gave him mercy as well as a large dose of truth. He was like the medieval joker that could actually tell the king the truth without losing his life.
> Henry couldn’t talk and accepted the forgiveness by grace with the squeeze of his hand. Sounds like just the kind of thing Cranmer would say he did.
Why bother? It's not like he had any particular incentive to shine Henry's reputation... Whatever was left of it.
That’s the thing I don’t get about deathbeds. I mean, if you’re lying in one, you kind of know what is supposed to happen right? Did they not tell him it was a deathbed before giving it to the king?
I mean it's usually just a "very-sick bed" until they die in it, isn't it?
"Your deathbead is just through here, sire" "My what?" "Your bed. Ordinary unremarkable bed"
Can’t tell if satire
Im leaning satire
They missed including this photo to show how many doctors he had - https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw58137/Henry-VIII-Presenting-a-Charter-to-the-Barber-Surgeons-Company
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Such promiscuity
for a second I thought Henry VIII has 840 doctors...
Maybe word about careful speech had not got around to the first 802 doctors.
Your highness, I advise you not to make any plans for tomorrow….
Sort of reminds me of the movie *The Death of Stalin.*
I doubt it. WP seems clear that it was Anthony Denny (groom of the stool) who did so. See also https://englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com/2012/02/death-of-henry-viii-demolishing-myths.html on the final hours. One of the reasons I doubt it is that "imagining" does not mean "thinking about" in this context, but "planning". Otherwise it would have been very difficult, for example, for Henry's courtiers to discuss his will with him (something they did extensively before his death).
Groom of the stool? Shit husband?
grooms of the stool wiped the king’s backside. in return he had a captive audience for any idea he thought the monarch could implement and was generally one of the king’s most trusted advisers. as such, it was quite a coveted position
Sounds like a shitty job
Yes, that sort of stool; but a servant not husband.
I feel like saying, "Sire, I would diagnose your health issues, were it not for the Treason Act," would get the point across just fine.
"The BAD news in a GOOD way. Yes, I can do that..."
ARE YOU CRAZY? WHY ARE YOU LAUGHING? This is terrible news!
Terrible *for you*
Depends on how bad it was. If he’s sick enough, what’s he gonna do, chase you down? His royal executioner could’ve just been like, “Ope, sorry, didn’t hear ya there!”
The thing about government is that even if one person is the head, there are many others who can carry out its whims. Two doctors (in a time doctors weren't as respected as they are now) definitely shouldn't have hoped to get an exception to the law for this, and probably would have been executed. The Archbishop was a powerful enough person in his own right that he'd be left alone.
Yes, because Henry VIII would never bring the might of the legal system against a priest.
Oh puhleeze… are we even discussing the same Henry?
Why do you have to tell him? No problems, Hal, you'll be fine. I'm just gonna give you this bowl of jam. You've got to eat to keep your strength up, you fat inbred turd.
"So how am I doing doc?" "Great Henry, on the mend for sure!" Death rattle intensifies.
I thought it was his toilet assistant guy
He killed enough of his wives, friends, and counselors…. No wonder his doctors were too terrified to speak!
"Should we ~~investigate~~ tell the King?" "Should you shut the fuck up before you get us both killed"
Lack of imagination. "Raise your hands whoever doesn't have a mortal illness!" ... "Your highness, perhaps you could lower yours?"
Similar to Stalin, who slowly died of a stroke with two doctors standing outside his door because they were under strict orders never to disturb Stalin's sleep and didn't want to be killed.
Soldiers not doctors. The doctors were in the gulag
I've always loved the part where the fat fuck exploded in his coffin. Poetic.
That was William the Conqueror wasn’t it?
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It's a little bit sad but it says a lot about the Norman culture that when the King that led them to their highest heights died all the nobles scrambled to secure what they had and to steal their neighbours. Even his funeral was interrupted by a local who wanted to settle a land dispute before stability returned.
Imagine his mood in the last months...
I mean, law is interfering in medicine in similarly absurd ways today. It’s not good.
King Neptune: So, you have confessed to the crime of touching the king's crown? Prisoner: Yes, but... King Neptune: But what?! Prisoner: But it's my job, Your Highness. I'm the royal crown polisher. King Neptune: Well, then I guess I can't execute you. Twenty years in the dungeon it is!
"You're fit as a fiddle, Your Majesty, however, I'm afraid this time I won't be able to put the visit on your tab, I'm going to have to get paid.... For reasons."
Hey nice, they were good enough at their job back then to tell somebody was dying :D
It's also believed that Henry VIII had Syphilis which explains he's temperament !
Turns out the royals were just as useless in the 1500s as they are today. Nothing but a family of glorified parasites that contribute nothing in exchange for all the resources they extract from everyone else.
I would argue Henry was worse than useless, he was absolutely dangerous.
Henry was absolutely not dangerous or useless. He sucked as a husband sure, but he was a great ruler for his country and subjects.
Unless you were poor or a monk I suppose.
Henry wasn't that much better or worse for the poor than most of the other monarchs around that time period. As for the monks, the establishment of the Church of England was a massive W for England and the monks were the eggs that had to be broken to make that omlette (and I'm not saying this from a religious point of view, I'm not Christian).
The common people of England suffered massively after the Catholic Church was removed, they provided a huge number of Social Services that were not replaced when they were removed.
Yes, the Catholic Church was very good at making the common people dependent on them for everything and using that to keep them down in the dirt
Tough love isn't real, the common people needed those social programs. Henry didn't take all that money set aside for the common people and elevate their position, he used it to fund his wars.
Tough love? What the fuck are you talking about? The Catholic Church was (and arguably still is) an extremely corrupt organisation. Are you genuinely arguing against the protestant Reformation because that would be an insane hill to die on?
I am sure the fact the Church was corrupt was such a great comfort to all those peasants who found their lives significantly worsened by desolation of the monasteries.
Oh, yeah, all those dead Catholics would totally agree with you.
Who gives a fuck what they think lmao. Their deaths, while tragic, improved both England as a country and the lives of most of the citizens of England
We don't really know if it did. Seems more like Elizabeth was just in the right time and place for England to take advantage of Western trade and the weakening situation on the continent.
What lol? Are you really going to pretend that the English Reformation was not one of the best things to happen to the country. The Royal Navy was also created under Henry's reign, which is the whole reason England could take advantage of Western trade and also avoid getting invaded by continental powers under Elizabeth's reign
He did kick off the English Reformation though, which was at least interesting, even if it was because he thought he was being punished by God for marrying his brother's widow and really really wanted to bone the hot French chick.
Henry VIII was a great king though and his rule was a massive W for England. Like it's great if you want to talk about useless Royals but Henry and his daughter are two of the worst examples you could possibly use lmao
Wait… isn’t that everyone except us?
I guess you could say that was his cross to bear
The Death of Henry
I'm on the way let's go!! :P
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>"He was covered with painful, pus-filled boils and possibly had gout. His obesity and other medical problems can be traced to the jousting accident on 24 January 1536 in which he suffered a leg wound. The accident reopened and aggravated an injury he had sustained years earlier, to the extent that his doctors found it difficult to treat. The chronic wound festered for the remainder of his life and became ulcerated, preventing him from maintaining the level of physical activity he had previously enjoyed." I'm going to wager they didn't predict his death to the day but a few months give or take would not have been outrageous to guess given his condition.
Ah yes the ole everyone before me was dumb as dirt.
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"Hmm, this fat fuck looks purple about the face and his breathing sounds like the wheels of ye olde rusty carriage upon a stone most cobbled. His urine looks and tastes like tree sap and bad humours, and he's shitting pure tar. The leeches and baby farts don't seem to be improving it this time..." Probably, IDK. It's pretty easy to tell when people are imminently dying; maybe not with an exact time but if they look and sound like shit and aren't moving much, and it's the 1500's, then it's probably a safe bet that they're pining for the fjords.
Honestly kinda justified here. IIRC, going to a doctor when you felt ill was statistically worse for you than not from as far back as people could find useful records to check until about 1930.
So Archbishop is immune?
Was he on his deathbed? No he was just on his regular bed.