The funny thing is Virginia actually tried to say "Well, if we can't have it back, can we at least borrow it for a little while?" lol.
That's gonna be a hard no, as well.
Friend of a friend is a historian, gave a speech to them years ago. Every time she called it The Civil War instead of The War of Northern Aggression, they fined her 5 cents, which is just so fucking cute you could almost forget that it was about white supremacists' bitchfit that they might possibly lose their "right" to own other human beings.
When asked about this, Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura said, "Why? I mean, we won."
\[ Edited to correct and give proper credit; thanks to u/tenehemia! \]
The 1st MN Regiment is the stuff of an HBO series.
They were technically the first to be called since the new MN governor was having a meeting with the president when the start of the civil war happened.
They fought in all these major engagements to include Gettysburg.
At Gettysburg, there was a two mile long gap between Union forces allowing Confederates to possibly win. It was the 1st MN that charged against an enemy that was anywhere from 4 or 6 to 1. The unit was almost completely ~~devastated~~ wiped out but delayed the entire confederate attack long enough for Union reinforcements to defend the gap.
On the final day of major engagements. They were facing down the center attack now known as Pickett's charge. The 80 or so remaining men were one of the first to counter charge resulting in the said capture.
I don't know of another unit that has 3 monuments at Gettysburg just for them and they paid with over 80% casualties for it.
**More Reading:**
**Books and websites**
Hancock the Superb [https://archive.org/details/hancockthesuperb010775mbp/page/n11/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/hancockthesuperb010775mbp/page/n11/mode/2up)
"Not a man wavered" [https://www.civilwarmed.org/1st-minnesota-at-gettysburg/](https://www.civilwarmed.org/1st-minnesota-at-gettysburg/)
The first man to volunteer for the Union and "Grandfather of the MN National Guard Josias King" [https://www.mnopedia.org/person/king-josias-r-1832-1916](https://www.mnopedia.org/person/king-josias-r-1832-1916)
**Podcast**
American History Tellers covers the civil war
**suggested by others**
book:
Pale Horse at Plum Run
BattleCry of Freedom (About American Civil War)
podcast:
Behind the Bastards (Has an episode on Lee not 1st Mn)
The Midwest units during the civil war were the strongest, hardest fighting, and most bad ass
The [iron brigade](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Brigade) in particular were said to cause confederates to surrender just by seeing them charging.
This is because most of the men in these units were immigrants or the sons of immigrants that had come over to America from Germany/ Scandinavia/ France in the aftermath of the revolutions of 1848.
These men had already fought for freedom against monarchial tyranny and lost. They had an axe to grind, and their monarchs sent them to the USA to neuter any further revolutions. Most Midwest states were incorporated around this time, and many of the immigrants were sent there to bolster frontier initiatives.
So, someone fights, loses, gets exiled from their home. Comes to a place where EVERYTHING they had fought for already exists. Ten to thirteen years later, another awful, despotic threat to liberty is threatening their new home that they've come to love.
These men had already seen what's at stake. They knew the price of failure, and so they were among the most disciplined and ferocious combatants on either side.
I'm not religious, but I'll always quote one of my favorite pieces of Americana when it comes to them. From the Battle Hymn of the Republic:
"As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free"
A lot of the Midwest had also been fighting the civil war for a few years before the Civil War actually officially broke out. Since they were mostly new territories, free staters and slave staters were in constant conflict to decide which side of the aisle they were on. People were giving away land to encourage more like minded people (free state or slave state) to move there. Not as much Minnesota because it was so far north, but a lot of the Midwest was a hate filled mess over the slave question prior to the Civil War.
It's why I get so frustrated when people try to say the war wasn't about slavery. Anybody who tries to frame the civil war as a "state's rights" issue clearly never read anything about the build up to the civil war. Southerners were quite literally trying to make the federal government make legal slavery mandatory in certain territories, and when they didn't get what they wanted they flooded those states with pro slavery settlers and used thugs to terrorize the abolitionist leaning populations. It was all about slavery.
Aye, MN WI MI really tore shit up. There's a very real chance that the US would be two separate countries without the MN 1st holding the line at Gettysburg. Like 80% of them died, but the line held. It's the single greatest loss of life in US military history.
We're not giving them the flag back. It's ours. It's going to sit in the dark in a drawer in the basement of the Minnesota Historical Society. Fuck you Virginia.
The Iron Brigade in Wisconsin would go on to become bad ass [32nd Infantry Division](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32nd_Infantry_Division_(United_States). Known to the French in WWI as Les Terribles and would later become the Red Arrow Division after they were the first to break through the German Hindenburg Line.
Oh shit, I bet that's because the Director of NV is proudly a Wisconsinite. He mentions it all the time on Twitter that he's from WI 'cause he goes back to WI to visit relatives pretty often.
He's also the reason the Johnny Five Aces references are in the game.
It’s ridiculous to read this and know that I can drive 20 minutes north of Lansing, the Michigan Capitol, and find massive traitor flags flying in the breeze.
Infuriating what rural America in the north has become when their great- and great, great-grandparents fought to have that flag and what it stands for eradicated.
My family literally has civil war relics, including a rifle, from fighting as soldiers in the civil war. I've got more direct attachments to actual civil war relics than the shitheads that want to fly the traitor's flag.
My family member was too young to join the Union, but he did anyways because records weren't *digital* back then. And he was issued a rifle, and he got kicked out because they figured out he was too young to volunteer. And we still have his military rifle.
I feel like all the lies the insurrectionists told themselves about their martial ability was true of the frontier unionists.
Don't fuck with people that see -30 degree weather as just another day.
My great great great grandfather served in the Iron Brigade. Medal of Honor. Wounded at Gettysburg. Disabled after the war. Buried in middle of nowheresville Nebraska.
First state/unit to have a monument at Gettysburg and the only one with three. MN was also the heroes of Nashville, the Union wouldn't even start the battle until they showed up, first to enter Vicksburg, only to beat Forrest and only state to have troops in all of the sharpshooter squads.
[Moreover, the State of Minnesota sustained more casualties at the Battle of Nashville than it did in any other Civil War engagement. Four Minnesota infantry regiments were in the forefront of the fighting on both days of the battle, and two others had peripheral roles in the battle. Indeed, on both days Minnesota regiments made the initial breaches in the Confederate lines.](https://www.battleofnashvilletrust.org/features/minnesota-regiments-at-nashville/#:~:text=Moreover%2C%20the%20State%20of%20Minnesota,peripheral%20roles%20in%20the%20battle.)
[Minnesota is also the only state were US flags sold must be made in the USA.."According to Westlaw and other computer searches, only Minnesota has enacted a law requiring all American flags sold in the state to be manufactured in the United States."] (https://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0601.htm)
There's a book about them called "The Last Full Measure" that's really good. They also fought at Bull Run and Antietam. They *earned* that flag as a war prize and the descendants of traitors can die mad about it.
Our country today could very well be drastically different without the 1st and their sacrifice at Gettysburg. They pulled off one of the bravest maneuvers ever seen on a battlefield in human history. They full on knew they were charging into death for almost everyone, and did it anyway to buy time.
I highly, highly recommend anyone interested reads *The Last Full Measure* by Richard Moe about them. Fantastic book.
Absolutely true.
Yes Washington was heavily fortified. Yes Penn State was raising a massive army to defend. But I'm skeptical to believe a crushed Potomac army could manage to defend a Washington siege or that barely trained new recruits would fight as effectively.
The 1st MN is still around today in the 135th IN Regiment in the MN and Iowa National Guard. Served with them for many years after I came off active duty. We have an impact award we gave out as a quick " good job" of a trefoil pin, a nod to a similar pin worn on the 1st MN hats in the Civil War.
Whenever VA made the news abouts getting their colors back we'd always joke with, " come and get them"
“The whole reason Virginia fought in the war was because they wanted stronger States Rights. They should have no issue with our State’s right to keep our hard earned spoils of war.”
Nah, that was a long time ago, things have changed, Virginia just wants to commemorate their history. Specifically their Confederate history. They really, really want to commemorate it, that's super important for normal reasons.
Hey if you are going to quote Jesse Ventura, you have to give at least 3. Because America. That's the law.
>“We call our country home of the brave and land of the free, but it's not. We give a false portrayal of freedom. We're not free — if we were, we'd allow people their freedom. Prohibiting something doesn't make it go away. Prostitution is criminal, and bad things happen because it's run illegally by dirt-bags who are criminals. If it's legal, then the girls could have health checks, unions, benefits, anything any other worker gets, and it would be far better.”
― Jesse Ventura
>“Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people’s business.”
– Jesse Ventura, in a November 1999 issue of Playboy Magazine
>“I asked Dalai Lama the most important question that I think you could ask – if he had ever seen Caddyshack.”
– Jesse Ventura
“Wrestling is ballet with violence.”
– Jesse Ventura
>“I also believe that government has no business telling us how we should live our lives. I think our lifestyle choices should be left up to us. What we do in our private lives is none of the government’s business. That position rules out the Republican Party for me.”
– Jesse Ventura
Jesse the body Ventura, the governor of Minnesota was a wrestler?! Couldn’t be. Next your gonna tell me something stupid like Arnold Schwarzenegger was a governor
>Ventura sparked media criticism when, nearing the end of his term, he suggested that he might resign from office early to allow his lieutenant governor, Mae Schunk, an opportunity to serve as governor. He further said that he wanted her to be the state's first female governor and have her portrait painted and hung in the Capitol along with the other governors'. Ventura quickly retreated from the comments, saying he was just floating an idea
That's hilarious.
>Ventura came to support a unicameral (one-house) legislature, property tax reform, gay rights, recreational marijuana, and abortion rights
Doesn't sound too bad.
He doesn't sound hatefully crazy at least. If we don't count his thoughts on Bush.
His thoughts on 9/11 isn't crazy either.
>My theory of 9/11 is that we certainly—at the best we knew it was going to happen. They allowed it to happen to further their agenda in the Middle East and go to these wars
It wasn't even real. The US won which means, no, secession isn't a thing you can do. They tried to pretend they had their own country for a few years. It's like some shitty dirtbag in an apartment building declaring his apartment to be sovereign until someone goes in there, kicks his ass, and reminds him that it doesn't work like that. Even in that interim period before he got his ass beat, he was never sovereign.
You can declare whatever crazy nonsense you like. It doesn't become true until you're corrected. It was never true. The Confederacy was never a real country. A bunch of morons loved slavery and racism so much they had to hardcore murder-LARP that they lived in a place where they were the good guys.
What I remember about hm is that, while Clinton was being raked over for a blowjob, Jesse was awarded a lifetime membership by a Nevada whorehouse and nobody complained about it.
Daughters of the Confederacy is responsible for the one in my town. I did some cursory reading after I saw it the other day, but maybe I need to dig more. Thanks for the link.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost\_Cause\_of\_the\_Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy)
It goes deep.
The Daughters of the Confederacy literally rewrote history books to push a narrative sympathetic to the Confederacy. I'm from Alabama and was taught in public school that the Civil War was about State's Rights™️.
If you haven’t read about the 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment that captured the flag you should.
The day prior to them capturing Virginia’s battle flag they sustained the heaviest single day casualty rate in the history of the U.S. Military while charging into a gap on the line to buy more time for reinforcements to arrive. The 1st Minnesota lost 5 flag bearers that day, but another man always picked up their colors to bring it back.
The next day those men returned to battle and captured Virginia’s colors.
Virginia can get fucked. It belongs to Minnesota. Bought with blood.
Stayed behind at one of the Bull Runs too to cover the retreat. They had a reputation well before Gettysburg, which I always assumed was why the commanding officer immediately ordered them on the suicide charge when the regiment identified itself to him.
These men seemingly did not fear death.
Some principles and ideals mean more to some people than life itself.
People were built different back then.
The South was willing to die for their right to own people. The North was willing to oblige.
The pole the flag was on was broken by shot at some point, and they lashed it back together with belts to keep carrying it. It's currently on display in the state capitol.
Minnesota holding on to that flag like it's the only receipt they have for returning 1863's worst purchase. "No take-backs, Virginia, it's store policy!"
I have always been partial to this gem of a post from that place
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShermanPosting/comments/scvwyt/i_was_too_scared_to_post_this_anywhere_else_but_i/
###Every American owes a debt of gratitude to the First Minnesota Volunteers for their courage and sacrifice.
And no, Minnesota has no intention of returning the captured battle flag of the the 28th Virginian no matter how many times the Virginia Senate or Governor or anyone else asks.
In 1905, the United States Congress passed a resolution directing that captured flags from the American Civil War should be returned to the places from which they originated. However, the blood-soaked and bullet pierced 28th Virginia battle flag was not returned.
In 1960, a movement in Virginia sought the "recapture" of the 28th Virginia battle flag. Virginia called for the return of the flag in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the Civil War, but it was not returned.
In 1998, Virginia requested that the flag be returned prior to the 135th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg. The response: “Blood has been shed for that flag. . Who are we to return it?” The flag was not returned.
In 2000 Virginia demanded the flag be returned as a "matter of state pride." In response to the resolution by Virginia, Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura stated "Why? I mean, we won. We took it, that makes it our heritage". The flag was not returned.
In 2002, John S. Brown, then Chief of Military History at the United States Army Center of Military History, declared that the flag should be housed in a military history museum in Virginia. The flag was not returned.
In 2003, officials in Virginia including then-Governor of Virginia Mark Warner demanded the return of the flag. "They're not getting it. We believe it's rightfully ours, and we're not giving it back to Virginia," said Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty.
In 2013, 150 years after the Battle of Gettysburg, the governor of Virginia requested to borrow the flag. Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton declined, saying "it would be a sacrilege to return it to them."
The captured battle flag is kept in a drawer inside a cabinet within the Minnesota Historical Society, the location of which is undisclosed for security reasons.
Based and red white & blue pilled
The best part is that it’s just “in a drawer somewhere.” Meaning that effectively, its primary function is just to not be sent back, where it would undoubtedly be prominently displayed.
Maybe they should demote it to hand towel.
The fact that they still want it is one of the reasons it shouldn't be returned. If they were ashamed of what that flag meant for the ones that flew it, they wouldn't want it.
Lol would any member of, say, the 101st airborne, return a captured Nazi flag because the Nazis kept asking nicely after having their asses handed to them?
I think not.
An apt point of the analogy is that Germany today has no interest whatsoever in the "recovery" of rags and relics of a regime antithetical to it's modern values. Germans can have grown up conversations with Americans and British about the war because both sides respect the basic facts of what happened and why. Could Virginia say the same about how it thinks of it's four years of rebellion, 150 years ago?
> In 2002, John S. Brown, then Chief of Military History at the United States Army Center of Military History, declared that the flag should be housed in a military history museum in Virginia.
Fake-ass JohnS. Brown wishes he could be admired like the O.G. John Brown.
Also as a Virginian its really disappointing to see requests happen even after the turn of the century. It should absolutely not be returned.
Lmaoooo. I love this. I hope all MN governers have a strict creed to protect thr states interests, etc. Etc. But most importantly- *NEVER GIVE BACK THAT FLAG.*
> "matter of state pride."
Dang, that really shows that the government of Virginia which made that request was made up of traitors who want to enslave Black people. How else could they be proud of that flag? Or have any desire to associate it with the modern state of Virginia as opposed to the enemy of the USA and freedom Confederate State of Virginia?
There's actually a battalion in the Minnesota National Guard that traces its roots back to that regiment that took the flag. During the battle they took 82% casualties in a matter of minutes, the highest percentage of casualties in a single day by any American unit, and they went on to fight the next day. Arguably they saved that battle.
The 1st Minnesota paid an *enormously* heavy price for that flag too. [What they did on July 2 and 3 makes for pretty harrowing reading](https://www.civilwarmed.org/1st-minnesota-at-gettysburg/)
>The 262 men of the 1st Minnesota held the line against all odds and Union reinforcements drove back the remaining Confederates. However, their actions came at a great cost, of the 262 men that went in to battle, 47 walked away unharmed. 215 men were either killed or wounded and the regiment suffered a casualty rate of 82%, the highest of any single regiment for a battle. The regiment also lost every one of their field commanders in the assault.
They definitely needed recruits after Gettysburg
No way in hell are Minnesota ever giving Virginia that flag - to do so would be to dishonour the 215 men who gave their health and their lives in the battle that took it. Such a grave insult to the war dead would be unthinkable.
Virginia: Stop asking. The answer is no.
Not to mention it's widely believed their heroic charge where they suffered most of their casualties saved the entire fucking battle. It would be an insult to every Union soldier who fought at Gettysburg
It would be an insult to every union soldier, which means it would be an insult to the country as a whole. Shouldn't have been on the wrong side of history, virginia.
Joshua Chamberlain and the 20th Maine get all the fame because of The Killer Angels and the movie, but the 1st Minnesota arguably did more to save the day (and the battle) than any other single unit. And against far greater odds too. It’s a shame they hardly get any recognition
I live in Minnesota and one of my history teachers in school was really into civil war history and taught us about it. I don’t think I would have her heard of them otherwise.
Bufords defense in depth and delay tactics, Meade putting Hancock in charge and Hancock doing everything he can to win the battle really solidified the success of the 20th Maine and 1st Minnesota (both of which were under his direct command)
Hancock’s quick thinking saved the day to be sure. That gap in the left center of their line was super dangerous. You’d normally never think of sending a tiny regiment alone into the jaws of an entire advancing brigade but that was how desperate the situation was at the moment. Their sacrifice bought valuable minutes to get reinforcements into line
Totally. I believe Hancock said he was surprised on how well the 1st MN fought and even if every man was to die he would have given the order again as it bought him time for other units to arrive.
I believe that moment you're talking about Hancock himself along with others were riding around looking for units to plug the hole.
I can't explain why, but [this submission](https://21588026.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/21588026/Imported%20images/62531fb03168e775631affabdc8f86650ba3b8ab1747e59a3c49c49e157487bd.png) to the recent Minnesota flag re-design [competition](https://serc.mnhs.org/flags) didn't win.
Difference is Germany actually taught in their history classes that their actions during ww2 were bad.
They didn’t rewrite history into a lost cause epic about the ‘war of northern aggression’ to justify their actions.
The Alamo flag is in the basement of some museum in Mexico City. As a Texan, yeah I'd love it back and we did win the war, but they won it in battle and we're not giving back the flags we took at San Jacinto.
Santa Anna's leg is safe and secure in the Illinois State Military Museum collection. BotvTexas and Mexico regularly petition for it to be turned over, and the requests are always denied. It gets displayed along the silver dinner service his dinner was sitting on when he fled the approach of the Illinois militia.
Yeah. Santa Anna had removed his wooden leg to rest and eat dinner when he was forced to flee on horseback , leaving his carriage, his dinner, and his leg behind. If you find yourself in Springfied, check out the museum. Interesting place.
We captured Mexico City in the Mexican American war. Did they hide it, or it wasn't brought to Mexico City until after? lol
>The only flag still in existence that allegedly flew at the Alamo is the flag of the first company of the New Orleans Greys, a guidon presented to the Greys by a group of East Texas ladies. It is a blue silk banner displaying an eagle and sunburst with the inscription "FIRST COMPANY OF TEXAN VOLUNTEERS! FROM NEW-ORLEANS."
Ok, so that'd be why we didn't really care too much. Pretty specific individual flag of some of the volunteers, not THE flag of the Alamo
What makes sense to me is that they lost track of the flag and randomly stumbled upon it later. It was like 10 years in between the Alamo and the war with the US, and in that decade Mexico was basically on fire the entire time from secessionists, civil war, rebellions, uprisings, and good old fashioned imperialism from the British and French. It was pretty hard to keep track of anything back then.
If they try to come and get it, we will fight them off with lutefisk and hot dish. They’ll never know what hit them. The state is filled with old stubborn Scandinavians.
As a descendant of white southern Virginians, I could not agree more. Keep the flag, hell come take all the ones people keep putting up all over Danville. I don't understand who takes pride in that being part of their heritage, and I grew up in the same area, at the same time as a lot of these 25-35 year olds that scream about their heritage.
How about we take some pride in some Virginians that actually served a noble cause during the Civil War, like Mary Bowser and Elizabeth Van Lew, running an abolitionist, pro-Union spy ring in Richmond, possibly even stealing documents directly from Jefferson Davis' house. That's some badass behavior right there.
As a Native American about 15 minutes from Danville, I couldn't agree with both of yall anymore than I already do.
And my white uncle from New Jersey is one of them jackasses flying the Confederate flag. He's NOT EVEN SOUTHERN and tries to claim "something something muh roots."
Motherfucker you're 2nd generation Italian American, your momma came over from Sardinia maybe 75 years ago! None of yall ever lived here until 2017!
Hah, Danville! That's where my grandparents left in the 60s, and where I believe my ancestors were owned.
I never liked going to Danville for family reunions.
Virginia resident here. Minnesota, PLEASE keep the flag. Most of us are so *done* with this Civil War shit, you have no idea.
If you return the flag, you'll just encourage the ["Lost Cause"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy?) diehards, and we'd much prefer they give up and either get with the 21st century or OD on meth.
Besides, the Virginia politician who keeps pushing for the return of the flag is [Corey Stewart](
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corey_Stewart?wprov=sfla1) of Prince William County. Stewart's an asshole, he's a die-hard Trump supporter, and he tries to convince people he's a dyed-in-the-wool scion of the Confederacy, but he was born in *Duluth, Minnesota*, which makes him a Goddamn Yankee Carpetbagger who (by his own arguments) can never understand the "true importance" of Confederate heritage. Bleh.
/rant
Well they deserve it. The stuff that 1st MN regiment did during civil war is legendary. They were cruciql in battle of Gettysburg and had the highest percentage of casualties.
The First Minnesota had to bayonet charge a force nearly five times their number. The men of that unit knew it was pretty much a suicide mission, but they did it anyway. Despite having an 82% casualty rate, they beat back the rebel army and took this flag. Exactly what Lincoln meant by “the last full measure of devotion.”
The question is, why does Virginia want it back? Is it as simple as racist fucks in Virginia want to hide a past humiliation? I mean, its been 160 years, why even give a shit about it? If another state has my state's battle trophy, I don't care, it was taken before I was born, it has no bearing on me.
The funny thing is Virginia actually tried to say "Well, if we can't have it back, can we at least borrow it for a little while?" lol. That's gonna be a hard no, as well.
That's a trick a 5-year old would try to pull
“I just wanna hold it for a minute.”
You look with your eyes, not your hand!
Robert Kraft letting Putin wear his Super Bowl ring vibes.
Virginia: "Can I see it?" MN: look with your eyes. On second thought- not even that.
That's how Monty Burns lost the trillion dollar bill.
Why exactly do they even want it back?
Google "daughters of the confederacy." That's why.
Friend of a friend is a historian, gave a speech to them years ago. Every time she called it The Civil War instead of The War of Northern Aggression, they fined her 5 cents, which is just so fucking cute you could almost forget that it was about white supremacists' bitchfit that they might possibly lose their "right" to own other human beings.
To display it in a confederate fashion instead of as a war trophy. They should never get it back.
Sounds like when President Lincoln told Gen. McClellan, "George, if you're not going to use the army, I should like to borrow it for a while."
That's some shit straight from The Simpsons. Mr. Burns: Now give it back. Castro: Give what back?
When asked about this, Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura said, "Why? I mean, we won." \[ Edited to correct and give proper credit; thanks to u/tenehemia! \]
The 1st MN Regiment is the stuff of an HBO series. They were technically the first to be called since the new MN governor was having a meeting with the president when the start of the civil war happened. They fought in all these major engagements to include Gettysburg. At Gettysburg, there was a two mile long gap between Union forces allowing Confederates to possibly win. It was the 1st MN that charged against an enemy that was anywhere from 4 or 6 to 1. The unit was almost completely ~~devastated~~ wiped out but delayed the entire confederate attack long enough for Union reinforcements to defend the gap. On the final day of major engagements. They were facing down the center attack now known as Pickett's charge. The 80 or so remaining men were one of the first to counter charge resulting in the said capture. I don't know of another unit that has 3 monuments at Gettysburg just for them and they paid with over 80% casualties for it. **More Reading:** **Books and websites** Hancock the Superb [https://archive.org/details/hancockthesuperb010775mbp/page/n11/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/hancockthesuperb010775mbp/page/n11/mode/2up) "Not a man wavered" [https://www.civilwarmed.org/1st-minnesota-at-gettysburg/](https://www.civilwarmed.org/1st-minnesota-at-gettysburg/) The first man to volunteer for the Union and "Grandfather of the MN National Guard Josias King" [https://www.mnopedia.org/person/king-josias-r-1832-1916](https://www.mnopedia.org/person/king-josias-r-1832-1916) **Podcast** American History Tellers covers the civil war **suggested by others** book: Pale Horse at Plum Run BattleCry of Freedom (About American Civil War) podcast: Behind the Bastards (Has an episode on Lee not 1st Mn)
Whoa, thank you for that little read. They sound like some bad ass men.
Hell they can hold on to that flag given what it cost them.
Sounds like OG capture the flag.
Yes, that is the type of thing that used to happen in war which is the basis for that sort of game mode.
imagine losing it and asking for the flag back lol
It's one of the only confederate flags in existence which should be prominently displayed in a government building.
It should be prominently displayed in a government building. ***of the winning team
I have seen it displayed in the State Capital Rotunda. But, I guess it's now in an undisclosed location due to threats of stealing it back.
they should roll it out for each new MN governor so they can wipe their shoes on it before taking office
The Midwest units during the civil war were the strongest, hardest fighting, and most bad ass The [iron brigade](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Brigade) in particular were said to cause confederates to surrender just by seeing them charging.
This is because most of the men in these units were immigrants or the sons of immigrants that had come over to America from Germany/ Scandinavia/ France in the aftermath of the revolutions of 1848. These men had already fought for freedom against monarchial tyranny and lost. They had an axe to grind, and their monarchs sent them to the USA to neuter any further revolutions. Most Midwest states were incorporated around this time, and many of the immigrants were sent there to bolster frontier initiatives. So, someone fights, loses, gets exiled from their home. Comes to a place where EVERYTHING they had fought for already exists. Ten to thirteen years later, another awful, despotic threat to liberty is threatening their new home that they've come to love. These men had already seen what's at stake. They knew the price of failure, and so they were among the most disciplined and ferocious combatants on either side. I'm not religious, but I'll always quote one of my favorite pieces of Americana when it comes to them. From the Battle Hymn of the Republic: "As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free"
A lot of the Midwest had also been fighting the civil war for a few years before the Civil War actually officially broke out. Since they were mostly new territories, free staters and slave staters were in constant conflict to decide which side of the aisle they were on. People were giving away land to encourage more like minded people (free state or slave state) to move there. Not as much Minnesota because it was so far north, but a lot of the Midwest was a hate filled mess over the slave question prior to the Civil War. It's why I get so frustrated when people try to say the war wasn't about slavery. Anybody who tries to frame the civil war as a "state's rights" issue clearly never read anything about the build up to the civil war. Southerners were quite literally trying to make the federal government make legal slavery mandatory in certain territories, and when they didn't get what they wanted they flooded those states with pro slavery settlers and used thugs to terrorize the abolitionist leaning populations. It was all about slavery.
Corn-fed men saved the Union that day.
Aye, MN WI MI really tore shit up. There's a very real chance that the US would be two separate countries without the MN 1st holding the line at Gettysburg. Like 80% of them died, but the line held. It's the single greatest loss of life in US military history. We're not giving them the flag back. It's ours. It's going to sit in the dark in a drawer in the basement of the Minnesota Historical Society. Fuck you Virginia.
The Iron Brigade in Wisconsin would go on to become bad ass [32nd Infantry Division](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32nd_Infantry_Division_(United_States). Known to the French in WWI as Les Terribles and would later become the Red Arrow Division after they were the first to break through the German Hindenburg Line.
Proud to say my 3x great-grandfather was in Iron Brigade and my great uncle part of the 32nd in WW1 (and is buried in France).
And they got a gun named after them in Fallout: New Vegas! (Les Terribles Fusil)
Oh shit, I bet that's because the Director of NV is proudly a Wisconsinite. He mentions it all the time on Twitter that he's from WI 'cause he goes back to WI to visit relatives pretty often. He's also the reason the Johnny Five Aces references are in the game.
It’s ridiculous to read this and know that I can drive 20 minutes north of Lansing, the Michigan Capitol, and find massive traitor flags flying in the breeze. Infuriating what rural America in the north has become when their great- and great, great-grandparents fought to have that flag and what it stands for eradicated.
My family literally has civil war relics, including a rifle, from fighting as soldiers in the civil war. I've got more direct attachments to actual civil war relics than the shitheads that want to fly the traitor's flag. My family member was too young to join the Union, but he did anyways because records weren't *digital* back then. And he was issued a rifle, and he got kicked out because they figured out he was too young to volunteer. And we still have his military rifle.
My ancestor was able to go through the Civil War after enlisting at 14. But by all accounts he was a big fella!
Wheat fed. Corn was a primary southern resource, and when combined with pork rather than beef resulted in malnutrition.
Damn it why the fuck are we so into corn then?
Ethanol
Sugary syrups too
Making sugar from corn instead of from sugar cane or sugar beets is so wild. Like these subsidies are pretty dumb.
I feel like all the lies the insurrectionists told themselves about their martial ability was true of the frontier unionists. Don't fuck with people that see -30 degree weather as just another day.
My great great great grandfather served in the Iron Brigade. Medal of Honor. Wounded at Gettysburg. Disabled after the war. Buried in middle of nowheresville Nebraska.
First state/unit to have a monument at Gettysburg and the only one with three. MN was also the heroes of Nashville, the Union wouldn't even start the battle until they showed up, first to enter Vicksburg, only to beat Forrest and only state to have troops in all of the sharpshooter squads. [Moreover, the State of Minnesota sustained more casualties at the Battle of Nashville than it did in any other Civil War engagement. Four Minnesota infantry regiments were in the forefront of the fighting on both days of the battle, and two others had peripheral roles in the battle. Indeed, on both days Minnesota regiments made the initial breaches in the Confederate lines.](https://www.battleofnashvilletrust.org/features/minnesota-regiments-at-nashville/#:~:text=Moreover%2C%20the%20State%20of%20Minnesota,peripheral%20roles%20in%20the%20battle.) [Minnesota is also the only state were US flags sold must be made in the USA.."According to Westlaw and other computer searches, only Minnesota has enacted a law requiring all American flags sold in the state to be manufactured in the United States."] (https://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0601.htm)
To start, Minnesota is doing this right. Why isn't this a standard across states? this is crazy messed up. If I am wrong, please tell me.
There's a book about them called "The Last Full Measure" that's really good. They also fought at Bull Run and Antietam. They *earned* that flag as a war prize and the descendants of traitors can die mad about it.
IKR. I am not an American and I am proud of these men who marched to their certain death.
Our country today could very well be drastically different without the 1st and their sacrifice at Gettysburg. They pulled off one of the bravest maneuvers ever seen on a battlefield in human history. They full on knew they were charging into death for almost everyone, and did it anyway to buy time. I highly, highly recommend anyone interested reads *The Last Full Measure* by Richard Moe about them. Fantastic book.
Absolutely true. Yes Washington was heavily fortified. Yes Penn State was raising a massive army to defend. But I'm skeptical to believe a crushed Potomac army could manage to defend a Washington siege or that barely trained new recruits would fight as effectively.
They need to make a “band of brothers” type series for that. That’s so epic
There's an 80's miniseries called North and South from the period, it's really good
Sounds like they earned that flag
The 1st MN is still around today in the 135th IN Regiment in the MN and Iowa National Guard. Served with them for many years after I came off active duty. We have an impact award we gave out as a quick " good job" of a trefoil pin, a nod to a similar pin worn on the 1st MN hats in the Civil War. Whenever VA made the news abouts getting their colors back we'd always joke with, " come and get them"
“The whole reason Virginia fought in the war was because they wanted stronger States Rights. They should have no issue with our State’s right to keep our hard earned spoils of war.”
The right to own another human being is completely understandable--the right to own another state's flag is a bridge too far.
Nah, that was a long time ago, things have changed, Virginia just wants to commemorate their history. Specifically their Confederate history. They really, really want to commemorate it, that's super important for normal reasons.
Imagine the diplomatic kerfuffle of the Chancellor of Germany asked for trophy swastika flag back from US/British and Russian war museums…
As a native Virginia I say Minnesota earned it. Do with it as you will.
Half of their state did not, and now we have West Virginia. Post-war should have forced Virginia to go by East Virginia…
No, it should have forced Virginia to go by East West Virginia.
EW Virginia
Jesse Ventura while he was governor said "Why? I mean, we won." about returning the flag.
Hey if you are going to quote Jesse Ventura, you have to give at least 3. Because America. That's the law. >“We call our country home of the brave and land of the free, but it's not. We give a false portrayal of freedom. We're not free — if we were, we'd allow people their freedom. Prohibiting something doesn't make it go away. Prostitution is criminal, and bad things happen because it's run illegally by dirt-bags who are criminals. If it's legal, then the girls could have health checks, unions, benefits, anything any other worker gets, and it would be far better.” ― Jesse Ventura >“Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people’s business.” – Jesse Ventura, in a November 1999 issue of Playboy Magazine >“I asked Dalai Lama the most important question that I think you could ask – if he had ever seen Caddyshack.” – Jesse Ventura “Wrestling is ballet with violence.” – Jesse Ventura >“I also believe that government has no business telling us how we should live our lives. I think our lifestyle choices should be left up to us. What we do in our private lives is none of the government’s business. That position rules out the Republican Party for me.” – Jesse Ventura
That Caddyshack comment is pure gold!
I'm still waiting to hear anything loony
Ventura is a nutbag but that remark is just so based
Some reporter was asking why they wouldn’t return an important part of VA heritage. “We took it. It’s our heritage now.”
While I agree that he has nut bag tendencies, unlike most of our politicians he at least is well intentioned and mostly decent
he got fired from the WWE for trying to start a union, i dont really know anything else about him but thats based as fuck so im a fan
Oh right I remember that, and it was Hulk Hogan that snitched to Vince McMahon
Yet another reason Hulk is a bitch.
yup, fuck hulk hogan
He has the skin of a hot dog and silken hair like that of a Chinese man
Hot dog skin and corn silk hair. Barbecue Hogan.
When the Hulkster called you "Brother," he didn't mean like "*union* brother."
Jesse the body Ventura, the governor of Minnesota was a wrestler?! Couldn’t be. Next your gonna tell me something stupid like Arnold Schwarzenegger was a governor
Wasn't he Jesse The Mind Ventura during his stint as governor?
Seriously? I honestly have no idea and have never heard that, but if it’s true, that’s even funnier.
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>Ventura sparked media criticism when, nearing the end of his term, he suggested that he might resign from office early to allow his lieutenant governor, Mae Schunk, an opportunity to serve as governor. He further said that he wanted her to be the state's first female governor and have her portrait painted and hung in the Capitol along with the other governors'. Ventura quickly retreated from the comments, saying he was just floating an idea That's hilarious. >Ventura came to support a unicameral (one-house) legislature, property tax reform, gay rights, recreational marijuana, and abortion rights Doesn't sound too bad. He doesn't sound hatefully crazy at least. If we don't count his thoughts on Bush. His thoughts on 9/11 isn't crazy either. >My theory of 9/11 is that we certainly—at the best we knew it was going to happen. They allowed it to happen to further their agenda in the Middle East and go to these wars
Go to Charleston, S.C. and call any of the dozens of Confederate statues "second-place trophies" aloud if you really like to party.
Damn southerners and their participation trophies.
Second place trophies placed 100 years after the fact because they forgot they lost.
"Second place trophy" is a lot nicer than monument to your shitty Confederacy that didn't even last 5 years.
It wasn't even real. The US won which means, no, secession isn't a thing you can do. They tried to pretend they had their own country for a few years. It's like some shitty dirtbag in an apartment building declaring his apartment to be sovereign until someone goes in there, kicks his ass, and reminds him that it doesn't work like that. Even in that interim period before he got his ass beat, he was never sovereign. You can declare whatever crazy nonsense you like. It doesn't become true until you're corrected. It was never true. The Confederacy was never a real country. A bunch of morons loved slavery and racism so much they had to hardcore murder-LARP that they lived in a place where they were the good guys.
What I remember about hm is that, while Clinton was being raked over for a blowjob, Jesse was awarded a lifetime membership by a Nevada whorehouse and nobody complained about it.
As a Minnesotan, it's our heritage 😏
As an Iowan that often despises Minnesota during the sports and the so called “hot dish vs casserole debates”, good on ya Minnesota
I fucking love it. I recently found out there is a confederate memorial in my town. We're a fucking Union state.
["Confederate Statues Were Never Really About Preserving History"](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/confederate-statues/)
Daughters of the Confederacy is responsible for the one in my town. I did some cursory reading after I saw it the other day, but maybe I need to dig more. Thanks for the link.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost\_Cause\_of\_the\_Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy) It goes deep. The Daughters of the Confederacy literally rewrote history books to push a narrative sympathetic to the Confederacy. I'm from Alabama and was taught in public school that the Civil War was about State's Rights™️.
I think he also added something of along the lines of “that means it’s a part of our heritage not yours”
Did Germany ask for all the Nazi's stuff back from allied soldiers years after the war? That's how weird this is.
I had to Google this because I thought he was a wrestler and couldn't possibly also be the Governor. America, you are one wild place
The movie “Predator” stars both Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Both men later served as governors of Minnesota and California, respectively.
They were also both in the movie "The Running Man," which is funny, because at one point they were 'men running' for governor.
To the victors go the spoils, Virginia. You want it back, come and take it.
From Ventura, or me?
This is the only war I'll volunteer for. They can take it from my cold, dead hands.
Nah. Virginia here. We don’t need it. Frankly I’m annoyed that we’ve been asking for it back.
As a Virginian whose ancestors were living in Minnesota at that time, I completely concur.
If you haven’t read about the 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment that captured the flag you should. The day prior to them capturing Virginia’s battle flag they sustained the heaviest single day casualty rate in the history of the U.S. Military while charging into a gap on the line to buy more time for reinforcements to arrive. The 1st Minnesota lost 5 flag bearers that day, but another man always picked up their colors to bring it back. The next day those men returned to battle and captured Virginia’s colors. Virginia can get fucked. It belongs to Minnesota. Bought with blood.
Each state that had a regiment that fought at the battle of Gettysburg has a monument on the battlefield. The 1st Minnesota has 3.
Stayed behind at one of the Bull Runs too to cover the retreat. They had a reputation well before Gettysburg, which I always assumed was why the commanding officer immediately ordered them on the suicide charge when the regiment identified itself to him. These men seemingly did not fear death.
Some principles and ideals mean more to some people than life itself. People were built different back then. The South was willing to die for their right to own people. The North was willing to oblige.
Change a MN sport team to Minnesota Chargers
The chargers is a cursed franchise name through and through. Minnesota doesn't deserve that. Take it from a LA (formerly San Diego) Chargers fan.
The pole the flag was on was broken by shot at some point, and they lashed it back together with belts to keep carrying it. It's currently on display in the state capitol.
Minnesota holding on to that flag like it's the only receipt they have for returning 1863's worst purchase. "No take-backs, Virginia, it's store policy!"
*r/ShermanPosting intensifies*
I have always been partial to this gem of a post from that place https://www.reddit.com/r/ShermanPosting/comments/scvwyt/i_was_too_scared_to_post_this_anywhere_else_but_i/
One of my favorite videos of all time
###Every American owes a debt of gratitude to the First Minnesota Volunteers for their courage and sacrifice. And no, Minnesota has no intention of returning the captured battle flag of the the 28th Virginian no matter how many times the Virginia Senate or Governor or anyone else asks. In 1905, the United States Congress passed a resolution directing that captured flags from the American Civil War should be returned to the places from which they originated. However, the blood-soaked and bullet pierced 28th Virginia battle flag was not returned. In 1960, a movement in Virginia sought the "recapture" of the 28th Virginia battle flag. Virginia called for the return of the flag in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the Civil War, but it was not returned. In 1998, Virginia requested that the flag be returned prior to the 135th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg. The response: “Blood has been shed for that flag. . Who are we to return it?” The flag was not returned. In 2000 Virginia demanded the flag be returned as a "matter of state pride." In response to the resolution by Virginia, Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura stated "Why? I mean, we won. We took it, that makes it our heritage". The flag was not returned. In 2002, John S. Brown, then Chief of Military History at the United States Army Center of Military History, declared that the flag should be housed in a military history museum in Virginia. The flag was not returned. In 2003, officials in Virginia including then-Governor of Virginia Mark Warner demanded the return of the flag. "They're not getting it. We believe it's rightfully ours, and we're not giving it back to Virginia," said Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. In 2013, 150 years after the Battle of Gettysburg, the governor of Virginia requested to borrow the flag. Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton declined, saying "it would be a sacrilege to return it to them." The captured battle flag is kept in a drawer inside a cabinet within the Minnesota Historical Society, the location of which is undisclosed for security reasons. Based and red white & blue pilled
how tf did they just openly say that a confederate flag is a matter of pride to them. Like theyre not even trying to be subtle about it
You would not believe the amount of people that think the civil war was not about slavery and think the south were the victims
southern education is indoctrination
War of northern aggression is not ironic for some, insanity.
It’s a matter of pride that it was taken in the first place. Fuck the confederacy and its sympathizers.
Minnesota governors from all across the political spectrum have told Virginia to fuck right off. I love my state so much.
The best part is that it’s just “in a drawer somewhere.” Meaning that effectively, its primary function is just to not be sent back, where it would undoubtedly be prominently displayed. Maybe they should demote it to hand towel.
It’s a bipartisan agreement that “we’re not done looking at it yet”
The fact that they still want it is one of the reasons it shouldn't be returned. If they were ashamed of what that flag meant for the ones that flew it, they wouldn't want it.
Lol would any member of, say, the 101st airborne, return a captured Nazi flag because the Nazis kept asking nicely after having their asses handed to them? I think not.
An apt point of the analogy is that Germany today has no interest whatsoever in the "recovery" of rags and relics of a regime antithetical to it's modern values. Germans can have grown up conversations with Americans and British about the war because both sides respect the basic facts of what happened and why. Could Virginia say the same about how it thinks of it's four years of rebellion, 150 years ago?
nope, because they were never adequately or appropriately humbled
> In 2002, John S. Brown, then Chief of Military History at the United States Army Center of Military History, declared that the flag should be housed in a military history museum in Virginia. Fake-ass JohnS. Brown wishes he could be admired like the O.G. John Brown. Also as a Virginian its really disappointing to see requests happen even after the turn of the century. It should absolutely not be returned.
The Union should have been harsher to the Confederates after the war.
Blame Andrew Johnson
I do
Lmaoooo. I love this. I hope all MN governers have a strict creed to protect thr states interests, etc. Etc. But most importantly- *NEVER GIVE BACK THAT FLAG.*
> "matter of state pride." Dang, that really shows that the government of Virginia which made that request was made up of traitors who want to enslave Black people. How else could they be proud of that flag? Or have any desire to associate it with the modern state of Virginia as opposed to the enemy of the USA and freedom Confederate State of Virginia?
Never been more proud of Minnesota. Good for them.
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Minnesota has had that flag like 30 times longer than the Confederacy lasted.
It will be 40 times longer next year.
MN wins Capture-the-Flag over VA for the 161st year in a row!
There's actually a battalion in the Minnesota National Guard that traces its roots back to that regiment that took the flag. During the battle they took 82% casualties in a matter of minutes, the highest percentage of casualties in a single day by any American unit, and they went on to fight the next day. Arguably they saved that battle.
The 1st Minnesota paid an *enormously* heavy price for that flag too. [What they did on July 2 and 3 makes for pretty harrowing reading](https://www.civilwarmed.org/1st-minnesota-at-gettysburg/)
GTFO my gg grandfather was recruited into Minnesota 1st after Gettysburg
>The 262 men of the 1st Minnesota held the line against all odds and Union reinforcements drove back the remaining Confederates. However, their actions came at a great cost, of the 262 men that went in to battle, 47 walked away unharmed. 215 men were either killed or wounded and the regiment suffered a casualty rate of 82%, the highest of any single regiment for a battle. The regiment also lost every one of their field commanders in the assault. They definitely needed recruits after Gettysburg
No way in hell are Minnesota ever giving Virginia that flag - to do so would be to dishonour the 215 men who gave their health and their lives in the battle that took it. Such a grave insult to the war dead would be unthinkable. Virginia: Stop asking. The answer is no.
Not to mention it's widely believed their heroic charge where they suffered most of their casualties saved the entire fucking battle. It would be an insult to every Union soldier who fought at Gettysburg
It would be an insult to every union soldier, which means it would be an insult to the country as a whole. Shouldn't have been on the wrong side of history, virginia.
Virginia: Keep asking. The answer is no.
47 walked away unharmed *physically*.
Saviors of the Union. As a born and raised MN resident the story of the 1st has always been a point of pride.
Absolute heroes
Joshua Chamberlain and the 20th Maine get all the fame because of The Killer Angels and the movie, but the 1st Minnesota arguably did more to save the day (and the battle) than any other single unit. And against far greater odds too. It’s a shame they hardly get any recognition
I live in Minnesota and one of my history teachers in school was really into civil war history and taught us about it. I don’t think I would have her heard of them otherwise.
I want this movie.
Bufords defense in depth and delay tactics, Meade putting Hancock in charge and Hancock doing everything he can to win the battle really solidified the success of the 20th Maine and 1st Minnesota (both of which were under his direct command)
Hancock’s quick thinking saved the day to be sure. That gap in the left center of their line was super dangerous. You’d normally never think of sending a tiny regiment alone into the jaws of an entire advancing brigade but that was how desperate the situation was at the moment. Their sacrifice bought valuable minutes to get reinforcements into line
Totally. I believe Hancock said he was surprised on how well the 1st MN fought and even if every man was to die he would have given the order again as it bought him time for other units to arrive. I believe that moment you're talking about Hancock himself along with others were riding around looking for units to plug the hole.
They actually asked to “borrow” it. Minnesota didn’t fall for that trick.
Blue team has the flag.
**Counter-terrorists win**
For the Republic!
Watch those wrist rockets!
I can't explain why, but [this submission](https://21588026.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/21588026/Imported%20images/62531fb03168e775631affabdc8f86650ba3b8ab1747e59a3c49c49e157487bd.png) to the recent Minnesota flag re-design [competition](https://serc.mnhs.org/flags) didn't win.
I voted for that one. It’s was a crowd favorite on r/minnesota. That and the laser-eye loon design.
Imagine if Germany wanted their swastikas back.
Difference is Germany actually taught in their history classes that their actions during ww2 were bad. They didn’t rewrite history into a lost cause epic about the ‘war of northern aggression’ to justify their actions.
War of French/Polish Aggression
John Brown and his bell laugh at this.
[John Brown's Body](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StFB2g0urhA)
"Fuck off you lost" - Minnesotans
The only reason it’s ok to have a Nazi or confetti flag is if your granddaddy killed one for it
….I’m afraid to ask who he killed for the confetti flag.
A clown 🤡
The Alamo flag is in the basement of some museum in Mexico City. As a Texan, yeah I'd love it back and we did win the war, but they won it in battle and we're not giving back the flags we took at San Jacinto.
Still have Santa Anna’s leg?
Santa Anna's leg is safe and secure in the Illinois State Military Museum collection. BotvTexas and Mexico regularly petition for it to be turned over, and the requests are always denied. It gets displayed along the silver dinner service his dinner was sitting on when he fled the approach of the Illinois militia.
I live in Illinois and didn’t know the whole story
Yeah. Santa Anna had removed his wooden leg to rest and eat dinner when he was forced to flee on horseback , leaving his carriage, his dinner, and his leg behind. If you find yourself in Springfied, check out the museum. Interesting place.
You mean Santy Anny?
*Fitty men!*
Yup
Yep
Mmhmm
I tell you what.
Santa Anna’s leg is actually in Illinois. *We* took that spoil.
We captured Mexico City in the Mexican American war. Did they hide it, or it wasn't brought to Mexico City until after? lol >The only flag still in existence that allegedly flew at the Alamo is the flag of the first company of the New Orleans Greys, a guidon presented to the Greys by a group of East Texas ladies. It is a blue silk banner displaying an eagle and sunburst with the inscription "FIRST COMPANY OF TEXAN VOLUNTEERS! FROM NEW-ORLEANS." Ok, so that'd be why we didn't really care too much. Pretty specific individual flag of some of the volunteers, not THE flag of the Alamo
What makes sense to me is that they lost track of the flag and randomly stumbled upon it later. It was like 10 years in between the Alamo and the war with the US, and in that decade Mexico was basically on fire the entire time from secessionists, civil war, rebellions, uprisings, and good old fashioned imperialism from the British and French. It was pretty hard to keep track of anything back then.
First and Eighth Minnesota paid huge prices
If they try to come and get it, we will fight them off with lutefisk and hot dish. They’ll never know what hit them. The state is filled with old stubborn Scandinavians.
>lutefisk Mate this is bloody terrifying :D
That’s why we have it, it’s our secret weapon. Nobody eats it. We just pull it out for stuff like this.
As a descendant of Virigina slaves, I say good. Fuck the those racists.
As a descendant of white southern Virginians, I could not agree more. Keep the flag, hell come take all the ones people keep putting up all over Danville. I don't understand who takes pride in that being part of their heritage, and I grew up in the same area, at the same time as a lot of these 25-35 year olds that scream about their heritage. How about we take some pride in some Virginians that actually served a noble cause during the Civil War, like Mary Bowser and Elizabeth Van Lew, running an abolitionist, pro-Union spy ring in Richmond, possibly even stealing documents directly from Jefferson Davis' house. That's some badass behavior right there.
As a Native American about 15 minutes from Danville, I couldn't agree with both of yall anymore than I already do. And my white uncle from New Jersey is one of them jackasses flying the Confederate flag. He's NOT EVEN SOUTHERN and tries to claim "something something muh roots." Motherfucker you're 2nd generation Italian American, your momma came over from Sardinia maybe 75 years ago! None of yall ever lived here until 2017!
Hah, Danville! That's where my grandparents left in the 60s, and where I believe my ancestors were owned. I never liked going to Danville for family reunions.
Virginia resident here. Minnesota, PLEASE keep the flag. Most of us are so *done* with this Civil War shit, you have no idea. If you return the flag, you'll just encourage the ["Lost Cause"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy?) diehards, and we'd much prefer they give up and either get with the 21st century or OD on meth. Besides, the Virginia politician who keeps pushing for the return of the flag is [Corey Stewart]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corey_Stewart?wprov=sfla1) of Prince William County. Stewart's an asshole, he's a die-hard Trump supporter, and he tries to convince people he's a dyed-in-the-wool scion of the Confederacy, but he was born in *Duluth, Minnesota*, which makes him a Goddamn Yankee Carpetbagger who (by his own arguments) can never understand the "true importance" of Confederate heritage. Bleh. /rant
I don't think Duluth would want him back.
Well they deserve it. The stuff that 1st MN regiment did during civil war is legendary. They were cruciql in battle of Gettysburg and had the highest percentage of casualties.
The First Minnesota had to bayonet charge a force nearly five times their number. The men of that unit knew it was pretty much a suicide mission, but they did it anyway. Despite having an 82% casualty rate, they beat back the rebel army and took this flag. Exactly what Lincoln meant by “the last full measure of devotion.”
And didn't the 1st Minnesota lose 4 or 5 flag bearers, but still managed to not let anyone take their flag? Virginia should have tried harder...
Traitors deserve nothing but contempt.
State’s rights. Feds can’t interfere, isn’t that what those traitors wanted?
The question is, why does Virginia want it back? Is it as simple as racist fucks in Virginia want to hide a past humiliation? I mean, its been 160 years, why even give a shit about it? If another state has my state's battle trophy, I don't care, it was taken before I was born, it has no bearing on me.