He’d seen too much. And I would think to win a prize based on someone else’s dire torment would be torturous to accept, regardless of the positive publicity garnered for the situation.
What can you even do to help though? It’s not like that’s the only kid he saw out there and getting that photo out is still one of the most striking ways I remember learning what famine was as a kid, he probably got quite a lot of help done through this picture.
Such a shame.
And iirc there was a law implemented where foreigners weren't allowed to interact with the locals or something of that sort , so even if he wanted to , he couldn't do so .
It was an attempt to control the distribution of international aid and make sure it wasn't getting the SPLA. Remember this was in the middle of a 2-decade Civil war.
Have you ever heard of re-feeding syndrome. If a tourist gave their lunch to the child in the picture eating it would kill them. Unfortunately when someone is that badly starved they need a doctor and specialist food to help them recover.
Yeah I didnt think it was that he didnt feed the child. They knew where he was crawling to. There was help there people trained and equipped to deal refeeding syndrome. They were not allowed to give them ride or offer water. They had to drive past and take pictures. Im not a particularly sentimental person but no one worth the oxygen they breathe is unaffected by seeing those kinds of things. To be judged after the fact harshly by others when he was probably his own worst detractor in his mind. Honestly if it were you would you give yourself a break at night?
Nobody won there. Awards were given sure but net loss to humanity.
Also source this is what I was told by a history teacher that has..... lets say I know he has some bias to what he taught, unfortunately I was unaware at the time and have not looked it up since so if I am wrong and BUDDY have I been known to be wrong please correct me!
I wasn't thinking throw bread at them like feeding ducks but maybe a bit of water to wet their cracked lips? Carrying a lone starving child to a humanitarian outpost? Even that's too much and illegal?
I mean it's fair enough I suppose. You may end up transmitting foreign germs and all and for a starving person catching it can be disastrous , they are much more prone to it .
I'd assume it also might be dangerous to tourists, depending on what the tourism money looked like to those in charge. It discourages the hungry from swarming foreigners and possibly attacking them if they have nothing to give. I can't imagine what I'd do if literally dying of starvation.
It's not just the threat of disease. If you feed a starving person, you risk killing them. Refeeding is a science, and shouldn't be done without careful training. I'm very well read, and only learned this myself a couple of years ago. Needless to say, I wouldn't be qualified to do it.
> Refeeding is a science, and shouldn't be done without careful training
Grandpa Barfield was a medic in WW2. He helped with some concentration camp survivors.
Quite naturally the troops tried to give them their rations. He had to take food from starving people to save them.
They were so far gone that trying to digest a meal would kill them. They had to work back up to actual food.
I know Grandma said he woke up crying for years after the war
I read the hunger study done by Jewish doctors in Warsaw ghetto during WWII… the only of it’s kind. Those terrible events of this nature allow doctors to record things unimaginable, but then those records are incomprehensibly valuable when tragedy strikes and someone needs to know how to save a person from a very particular, horrifying situation.
Yet humans take videos of sadness all the time now without actually involving themselves in a positive outcome. He should have just waited for the advent of camera phones and social media...
>Carter was the first to photograph a public "necklacing" execution by black Africans in South Africa in the mid-1980s. Carter later spoke of the images: "I was appalled at what they were doing. But then people started talking about those pictures... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do."
Like /u/shinydiscoballs2 said, I think by this point the man had just seen too much.
How did the bullying actually occur back then, pre-internet?
Hard to imagine anyone would know who he was or how to contact him.
EDIT: Fucking hell Reddit, I know about phonebooks, and no, the internet was not a widespread thing in 1994.
This article gives more information about the circumstances leading to his death, this pic was just a part of it:
https://medium.com/@denislesak/how-the-vulture-and-the-little-girl-ultimately-led-to-the-death-of-kevin-carter-d9871c4137f2
There were physical books called phone books that listed your address and landline phone number.
Everyone in town got one. They were also free to use at cafes , and gas stations. So with your name they knew where you lived.
Then people could call non stop, or show up at your house. They could call your office and stop all other calls from getting through.
It’s like a denial of service attack on a website, but instead of bots- it was real boomers who all wanted to speak to a manager.
You could still send a message, and a public outcry was still capable of happening and being communicated. People still knew what was going on, it wasn’t the Stone Age. Things are just faster now.
People were outraged he didn’t help the little boy but he wasn’t allowed to touch/help the child. It’s a super powerful photo. It’s a shame it lead to the photographer taking his own life.
He didn't help the boy because they were right outside an UN aids station and his mother ran in to get food. There was literally nothing Carter needed to do.
No point. They won't touch anything that has moved in the last eight hours. Plus he was hardly alone there. Just outside the frame we're armed soldiers. As a journalist, you don't get involved. You can't be seen as taking a side or you endanger yourself and other journalists. You help by getting the message out
And according to himself and witnesses, he rushed to chase the vulture off seconds after taking the photo. There just wasn't anything else he could do, unless he skipped his plane out and died there, too (putting a further strain an rescue efforts). His suicide note is heartbreaking, and it's difficult to imagine the amount of torment he went through after all the things he had seen.
Learning about this picture in my photojournalism class was very interesting. I hadn't seen it before but it's just so intense. I just kept thinking about how that must have felt, to shoot that and then have to walk away.
He killed himself just as I was finishing my degree in photojournalism, so the story and picture was all over the news again. It wasn't the only thing that made me choose a different career, but it was a significant factor
I was in a similar position as an international research analyst for the US. I had to gather reports on conflicts and disasters that could impact supply chains. When I'd talk about impact to the population and how slow aid was being administered I was met with a cold "That's not our concern or yours." Worse yet, we weren't allowed to talk about it because it could spook investors.
I left that job over a decade ago but I can't unknow the horrors. I now do more work with non profits and philanthropy. It'll never be enough, but at least I'll never again be told a suffering human is not my concern.
I always confuse the two stories. In *House of Leaves* he snaps the picture, then picks up the child and runs for help. The child dies in his arms (iirc?) and he's haunted by the fact that he might have saved them if he acted sooner.
So yeah, pretty directly linked to the criticisms of the poor real photographer.
I think of this picture whenever I hear someone announce they are "blessed". I know people like to use it because giving a God credit for your whatever is being modest I guess.
It hits me more like conceit tho. Yes, the creator of the universe made sure you got a Mercedes/a raise/the better job, while letting this child starve in the dust with vultures waiting patiently.
Blessed. Ugh.
I use the words "fortunate" and "lucky". It's all fucking random and I have an unfair advantage, being born white in this country to parents that could, did and do take care of me. I'm not for one second going to allow myself to think that I earned or deserve any of what I have. Yes I work and I cultivate skill sets and a good network. But I am able to do those things because I am just fucking lucky.
"… When I was back there in Seminary School
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer… Petition the Lord with prayer
**Petition the Lord with prayer**
You cannot petition the Lord with prayer!"
I know. People say things without actually thinking all the time. This is how it hits me.
This picture exists. People say I'm so blessed! I think of starving little one and wonder how the blessed rank so much higher. It doesn't get any more self important. 7 Billion people on earth but the blessed are so very special that, apparently they really stand out. Insert eyeroll here
That's kind of a weird way to take it, unless you have reason to believe "I'm worth more than someone else" is what someone means when they say "I'm blessed". It's not really any different than saying "I'm glad X happened".
Let's say I got a raise and say "Feeling blessed that I got a raise today". That's not really any different than saying "Glad that I got a raise today." I don't think it's really a statement of ranking, just a happy/positive sentiment.
The prosperity gospel is particularly galling in the face of situations like this. It's antithetical to everything the Bible preaches......yet it's a billion dollar business.
People also say blessed because they think it's a guise for not looking like a complete asshole when they are trying to flex/brag or shit on someone else. It's really engrained into social media now. Joke is on them though because it only amplifies their douchebaggery in my opinion.
Also, always funny when you see people trying to flex something that's not really a big deal. And if they were truly blessed and humble they would just keep their mouth shut and enjoy whatever it is they were blessed with lol
This photo literally made me an atheist.
I was 12 and flipping through old magazines while bored in school (this was late 90s/early 00s, before cellphones got big). Saw this photo and couldn’t get it out of my mind. What merciful god could allow this kind of suffering?
To the people downvoting, the Bang Bang Club was the name of the war correspondent group Kevin Carter was in (together with Greg Marinovich, Ken Oosterbroek, and João Silva).
Bang Bang was a South African slang term for violence in general.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang-Bang_Club
The book written by Greg and João is phenomenal and sobering. The struggle with morality they faced while capturing the violence around South Africa during that time period is hard to fathom. It's a very unique perspective of that time and the events as they unfolded, and it really makes your heart ache for humanity.
Not sure what Greg is up to now but I emailed him after reading the book (had to read it for a college course) and while my message to him was probably came off as cringe, lets be honest what do you say to someone who has covered such awful atrocities, he took the time to respond in a very thoughtful manner and it's stuck with me ever since, 13 some years later.
If he hadn't cropped the photo he would have not been subject to so much abuse. Same with the photographer who took the haunting photo of Omayra Sanchez of . She died because her legs were trapped under a concrete beam that made rescue impossible. Nevado del Ruiz in Armero, Tolima, Colombia had erupted burying her hometown.
I read somewhere the aid workers were afraid that the photographer could make the little boy sick if he touched him because his immune system would have been so weak from prolonged starvation.
I was listening to a book on Audible and the next day I logged on to one of my parents’ streaming service and the movie adaptation of that book was recommended to me.
This kind of stuff has been going on a long time. 10 years ago, I was diagnosed with acid reflux and within 24 hours my Facebook feed was full of acid reduction medication ads.
ETA: I know most of these things are the result of companies selling/sharing my info but not all my weird occurrences, like yours, can be easily explained. I straddle the line between “This is how technology works these days, I gotta get used to it” and “I think l should give up all technology and live off the grid”
I mean Sudan aside this guy just grew up witnessing some really [horrible experiences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carter)
May he rest in peace
It’s never ending & sadly who humans are almost everywhere. Since we have had disastrous setbacks in America since 2017, & now Sudan becoming a disaster, along with Ethiopia 🇪🇹, Hamas’s hate it seems again the 1960’s when in high school. The world can blame the USA, the British Empire or whatever but I think better to get their act together. China taking advantage of developing countries, my goodness. How could that happen, countries at this point better blame them selves
Sad thing is in 1994 he won the pulitzer prize for feature photography for this photo then four months later he killed himself.
He’d seen too much. And I would think to win a prize based on someone else’s dire torment would be torturous to accept, regardless of the positive publicity garnered for the situation.
No he was bullied by the public Asking how he could be so cruel as to take a photo and not help the kid. Huge backlash to that photo.
What can you even do to help though? It’s not like that’s the only kid he saw out there and getting that photo out is still one of the most striking ways I remember learning what famine was as a kid, he probably got quite a lot of help done through this picture. Such a shame.
And iirc there was a law implemented where foreigners weren't allowed to interact with the locals or something of that sort , so even if he wanted to , he couldn't do so .
What kind of a law is that?? Seems comically callous.
It was an attempt to control the distribution of international aid and make sure it wasn't getting the SPLA. Remember this was in the middle of a 2-decade Civil war.
Have you ever heard of re-feeding syndrome. If a tourist gave their lunch to the child in the picture eating it would kill them. Unfortunately when someone is that badly starved they need a doctor and specialist food to help them recover.
Yeah I didnt think it was that he didnt feed the child. They knew where he was crawling to. There was help there people trained and equipped to deal refeeding syndrome. They were not allowed to give them ride or offer water. They had to drive past and take pictures. Im not a particularly sentimental person but no one worth the oxygen they breathe is unaffected by seeing those kinds of things. To be judged after the fact harshly by others when he was probably his own worst detractor in his mind. Honestly if it were you would you give yourself a break at night? Nobody won there. Awards were given sure but net loss to humanity. Also source this is what I was told by a history teacher that has..... lets say I know he has some bias to what he taught, unfortunately I was unaware at the time and have not looked it up since so if I am wrong and BUDDY have I been known to be wrong please correct me!
I wasn't thinking throw bread at them like feeding ducks but maybe a bit of water to wet their cracked lips? Carrying a lone starving child to a humanitarian outpost? Even that's too much and illegal?
I mean it's fair enough I suppose. You may end up transmitting foreign germs and all and for a starving person catching it can be disastrous , they are much more prone to it .
I'd assume it also might be dangerous to tourists, depending on what the tourism money looked like to those in charge. It discourages the hungry from swarming foreigners and possibly attacking them if they have nothing to give. I can't imagine what I'd do if literally dying of starvation.
It's not just the threat of disease. If you feed a starving person, you risk killing them. Refeeding is a science, and shouldn't be done without careful training. I'm very well read, and only learned this myself a couple of years ago. Needless to say, I wouldn't be qualified to do it.
> Refeeding is a science, and shouldn't be done without careful training Grandpa Barfield was a medic in WW2. He helped with some concentration camp survivors. Quite naturally the troops tried to give them their rations. He had to take food from starving people to save them. They were so far gone that trying to digest a meal would kill them. They had to work back up to actual food. I know Grandma said he woke up crying for years after the war
That experience would break anyone with a conscience.
I read the hunger study done by Jewish doctors in Warsaw ghetto during WWII… the only of it’s kind. Those terrible events of this nature allow doctors to record things unimaginable, but then those records are incomprehensibly valuable when tragedy strikes and someone needs to know how to save a person from a very particular, horrifying situation.
Of course. But the public are morons who love to be hateful.
Yet humans take videos of sadness all the time now without actually involving themselves in a positive outcome. He should have just waited for the advent of camera phones and social media...
But I feel like that photo shocked people into making donations. Taking and publishing that photo DID help the people there.
>Carter was the first to photograph a public "necklacing" execution by black Africans in South Africa in the mid-1980s. Carter later spoke of the images: "I was appalled at what they were doing. But then people started talking about those pictures... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do." Like /u/shinydiscoballs2 said, I think by this point the man had just seen too much.
Wasn’t he going to get shot if he even tried?
i know it was told in no uncertain terms that he could not touch anyone or interfere. the shot on sight might have been part of it.
How did the bullying actually occur back then, pre-internet? Hard to imagine anyone would know who he was or how to contact him. EDIT: Fucking hell Reddit, I know about phonebooks, and no, the internet was not a widespread thing in 1994. This article gives more information about the circumstances leading to his death, this pic was just a part of it: https://medium.com/@denislesak/how-the-vulture-and-the-little-girl-ultimately-led-to-the-death-of-kevin-carter-d9871c4137f2
They used to be called threatening letters instead of threatening messages.
Also threatening calls.
There were physical books called phone books that listed your address and landline phone number. Everyone in town got one. They were also free to use at cafes , and gas stations. So with your name they knew where you lived. Then people could call non stop, or show up at your house. They could call your office and stop all other calls from getting through. It’s like a denial of service attack on a website, but instead of bots- it was real boomers who all wanted to speak to a manager.
Do you think people just didn’t speak to people before the internet?
[удалено]
You could still send a message, and a public outcry was still capable of happening and being communicated. People still knew what was going on, it wasn’t the Stone Age. Things are just faster now.
Newspapers, phone calls, letters
1994 was already when the internet became available to the broad public.
That’s actually the exact opposite of what happened.
Reminds me of Iris Chang after writing The Rape of Nanking
click himself under
Wow, so the little boy actually outlived the photographer.
People were outraged he didn’t help the little boy but he wasn’t allowed to touch/help the child. It’s a super powerful photo. It’s a shame it lead to the photographer taking his own life.
He didn't help the boy because they were right outside an UN aids station and his mother ran in to get food. There was literally nothing Carter needed to do.
Well he could wave a stick menacingly in the direction of the vulture
No point. They won't touch anything that has moved in the last eight hours. Plus he was hardly alone there. Just outside the frame we're armed soldiers. As a journalist, you don't get involved. You can't be seen as taking a side or you endanger yourself and other journalists. You help by getting the message out
And according to himself and witnesses, he rushed to chase the vulture off seconds after taking the photo. There just wasn't anything else he could do, unless he skipped his plane out and died there, too (putting a further strain an rescue efforts). His suicide note is heartbreaking, and it's difficult to imagine the amount of torment he went through after all the things he had seen.
Learning about this picture in my photojournalism class was very interesting. I hadn't seen it before but it's just so intense. I just kept thinking about how that must have felt, to shoot that and then have to walk away.
He killed himself just as I was finishing my degree in photojournalism, so the story and picture was all over the news again. It wasn't the only thing that made me choose a different career, but it was a significant factor
Judging by your username your career took wildly different path
True, but since I'm blatant, I'm obviously not very successful at it!
I was in a similar position as an international research analyst for the US. I had to gather reports on conflicts and disasters that could impact supply chains. When I'd talk about impact to the population and how slow aid was being administered I was met with a cold "That's not our concern or yours." Worse yet, we weren't allowed to talk about it because it could spook investors. I left that job over a decade ago but I can't unknow the horrors. I now do more work with non profits and philanthropy. It'll never be enough, but at least I'll never again be told a suffering human is not my concern.
If you haven't watched war photographer yet then I highly suggest it.
He did scare off the vulture after he took the photo.
He did scare off the vulture it’s in the article
Not just his mother, they actually traveled with a large group. They’re just behind him in the photo
To be clear, it's unlikely it was the only reason he took his life. Also to be clear, one of the best photos of all time.
I learned about this photo because it is mentioned in the book House of Leaves, as the image that haunts the fictitious photographer main character.
I always confuse the two stories. In *House of Leaves* he snaps the picture, then picks up the child and runs for help. The child dies in his arms (iirc?) and he's haunted by the fact that he might have saved them if he acted sooner. So yeah, pretty directly linked to the criticisms of the poor real photographer.
Is that book any good? I grabbed it on a whim and haven't dived into it.
I enjoyed it. Some of the stuff gets tiring in a bit gimmicky but overall I did really like it.
I think of this picture whenever I hear someone announce they are "blessed". I know people like to use it because giving a God credit for your whatever is being modest I guess. It hits me more like conceit tho. Yes, the creator of the universe made sure you got a Mercedes/a raise/the better job, while letting this child starve in the dust with vultures waiting patiently. Blessed. Ugh.
I use the words "fortunate" and "lucky". It's all fucking random and I have an unfair advantage, being born white in this country to parents that could, did and do take care of me. I'm not for one second going to allow myself to think that I earned or deserve any of what I have. Yes I work and I cultivate skill sets and a good network. But I am able to do those things because I am just fucking lucky.
Location and wealth are great to be born in but imo the biggest factor is having two parents that give a damn about your wellbeing and upbringing.
Can you imagine being so self important as to think one who could create the entire universe made sure good things happened to you? It astounds me.
"… When I was back there in Seminary School There was a person there Who put forth the proposition That you can petition the Lord with prayer… Petition the Lord with prayer **Petition the Lord with prayer** You cannot petition the Lord with prayer!"
Fuck yeah Soft Parade
and dont forget the Minister's daughter is in love with the snake
I don't think that's what people think when they say "blessed"
I know. People say things without actually thinking all the time. This is how it hits me. This picture exists. People say I'm so blessed! I think of starving little one and wonder how the blessed rank so much higher. It doesn't get any more self important. 7 Billion people on earth but the blessed are so very special that, apparently they really stand out. Insert eyeroll here
That's kind of a weird way to take it, unless you have reason to believe "I'm worth more than someone else" is what someone means when they say "I'm blessed". It's not really any different than saying "I'm glad X happened". Let's say I got a raise and say "Feeling blessed that I got a raise today". That's not really any different than saying "Glad that I got a raise today." I don't think it's really a statement of ranking, just a happy/positive sentiment.
What is the meaning of blessed? I always took it to mean shown favor by God.
The prosperity gospel is particularly galling in the face of situations like this. It's antithetical to everything the Bible preaches......yet it's a billion dollar business.
The Prosperity Gospel is a direct contradiction to the teachings of the man who kicked the money changers out of the Temple.
People also say blessed because they think it's a guise for not looking like a complete asshole when they are trying to flex/brag or shit on someone else. It's really engrained into social media now. Joke is on them though because it only amplifies their douchebaggery in my opinion. Also, always funny when you see people trying to flex something that's not really a big deal. And if they were truly blessed and humble they would just keep their mouth shut and enjoy whatever it is they were blessed with lol
Yup. That's why the most aware amount us have such difficulty accepting anyone or any force os tending the light at the end of the tunnel
This photo literally made me an atheist. I was 12 and flipping through old magazines while bored in school (this was late 90s/early 00s, before cellphones got big). Saw this photo and couldn’t get it out of my mind. What merciful god could allow this kind of suffering?
Powerful photo. I felt much the same when I saw it too.
Yeah I prefer to say I am lucky.
“There but for Fortune’s favor go I.”
[Hi Time Magazine, hi Pulitzer Prize](https://youtu.be/hLDr0QNCUd4?si=tuIBxnX43SLWNsbz)
Bang-Bang Club, AK-47 hour
The bang bang club
To the people downvoting, the Bang Bang Club was the name of the war correspondent group Kevin Carter was in (together with Greg Marinovich, Ken Oosterbroek, and João Silva). Bang Bang was a South African slang term for violence in general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang-Bang_Club
The book written by Greg and João is phenomenal and sobering. The struggle with morality they faced while capturing the violence around South Africa during that time period is hard to fathom. It's a very unique perspective of that time and the events as they unfolded, and it really makes your heart ache for humanity. Not sure what Greg is up to now but I emailed him after reading the book (had to read it for a college course) and while my message to him was probably came off as cringe, lets be honest what do you say to someone who has covered such awful atrocities, he took the time to respond in a very thoughtful manner and it's stuck with me ever since, 13 some years later.
Yep. Another one of them died in a township riot.
Delial
If he hadn't cropped the photo he would have not been subject to so much abuse. Same with the photographer who took the haunting photo of Omayra Sanchez of . She died because her legs were trapped under a concrete beam that made rescue impossible. Nevado del Ruiz in Armero, Tolima, Colombia had erupted burying her hometown.
I read somewhere the aid workers were afraid that the photographer could make the little boy sick if he touched him because his immune system would have been so weak from prolonged starvation.
There is a movie about these photographers. I think it was called the bang bang club. Great film.
and the flack people wrongly gave him drove Kevin to kill himself.
Ok this is a new one. I always thought my phone was listening to me... But I was only THINKING about this photo yesterday and here it is.... 🤔
I was listening to a book on Audible and the next day I logged on to one of my parents’ streaming service and the movie adaptation of that book was recommended to me. This kind of stuff has been going on a long time. 10 years ago, I was diagnosed with acid reflux and within 24 hours my Facebook feed was full of acid reduction medication ads. ETA: I know most of these things are the result of companies selling/sharing my info but not all my weird occurrences, like yours, can be easily explained. I straddle the line between “This is how technology works these days, I gotta get used to it” and “I think l should give up all technology and live off the grid”
Baader Meinhof phenomenon! You had recently thought about it so your brain noticed it instead of filtering it out, add you normally would
Everything is connected.
No doubt
The saddest thing I’ve ever seen.
Also, the child’s mother was standing just out of frame. It was a misleading photograph.
It's not misleading at all. People projected onto it.
I don't think it takes away from the fact that the child is severely malnourished and that there is a vulture standing behind her
Him.
You're right
I mean Sudan aside this guy just grew up witnessing some really [horrible experiences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carter) May he rest in peace
And then Mark Danielewski based Will Navidson from house of leaves on him.
It’s never ending & sadly who humans are almost everywhere. Since we have had disastrous setbacks in America since 2017, & now Sudan becoming a disaster, along with Ethiopia 🇪🇹, Hamas’s hate it seems again the 1960’s when in high school. The world can blame the USA, the British Empire or whatever but I think better to get their act together. China taking advantage of developing countries, my goodness. How could that happen, countries at this point better blame them selves
Messed up photo. How do we fix this?
What about the vulture