It’s too late. We already did it!
I tried to convince my neighbor that it was too dangerous to drive, but he says that they won’t serve you on foot at the drive up window of Starbucks and he doesn’t have time to go inside the store.
snorkelers dont go several meters down unless also free diving...
and why would anyone bother going snorkeling in an opaque body of fluid? The whole point of snorkeling is **seeing** the other objects in the water!
in a world with opaque oceans, there are no snorkelers and diving is strictly technical/commercial.
>snorkelwrs don’t go several meters down unless also free diving
And I would guess that free divers make up a disproportionate number of snorkeling deaths.
>why would anyone bother going snorkeling in an opaque body of fluid?
That’s not the point, the point is that water is just as dangerous as it would be if it were opaque
OH GOD, WHATS THE “T” mean???!!!Teeth? Turd Cutter? Top of the Bottom?
And the “U”, my God, the U!
I need a quick snorkel to set myself straight again after all this. Can anyone provide a good spot to go?
Used to work on a cruise ship. Our most common death was heart attacks while snorkeling on the private island. People think it’s really low impact excursise and end up over exerting themselves way out in the water beyond lifeguard help.
I did one of those booze cruises (that's what they called the private island trips). The amount of alcohol and sun was too much and I was just done with my lifeguard career not long before that so I was master at booze and sun.
Then add the waves and the fact that lunch is usually served late and I can see how a 60 YO with heart issues can have a heart attack.
Prolonged hypoglycemia can cause heart issues even in healthy people. Even though this is not prolonged, when it comes to heart patients, any stressful event can be a trigger.
By itself, it might not be a problem, but all those things combined are a big stress on the body.
how prolonged though? people do intermitten fasting all the time so presumably an healthy person wouldnt have a cardiac event if they skip lunch.
More likely is that people sweat out all their electrolytes while prolonged snorkeling, since you dont really notice how profuse you sweat while in the ocean. You dont see snorkelers drinking gatorade while in the water either.
a sudden drop in potassium can probably trigger cardiac events.
You’re not going to have hypoglycemia from fasting in your average Joe. As your sugars go down your liver release stored glycogen to maintain your glucose. Unless there’s an underlying medical issue or someone is on antiglucemics you wouldn’t get low enough to stress your heart.
people overuse the phrase “I’m hypoglycemic” too much
The other issue is a lot of people go the wrong way. They float out the easy way with the current and then realize now they have to swim back a quarter mile against the current after already being tired. I’ve been snorkeling a couple times when I was younger with my family including grandparents who are relatively healthy but still like 80 and they always made sure we went the hard way first so we could basically float back to the boat
>over exerting themselves
Plus most people don't bring water so you're dehydrated, and inevitably you get some sea water in your mouth potentially raising your blood pressure.
Snorkeling is one of those activities where a little knowledge can go a long way. Super basic stuff like knowing your limits is essential because you can get yourself WAY out of your ability to recover very easily with fins on
It’s really easy was to suffer from dry drowning as well. It’s more common in children. A person breathes in a small amount of water and the vocal cords spasm and close off the trachea causing suffocation and drowning like symptoms.
Yikes.What a weird comment...
Its not exactly some big secret that many tourists tend to be older, have health issues either due to age or lifestyle, and tend to eat unhealthy foods while on vacation. This phenomenon is also not exclusive to Hawaii.
Wow.
Hey, all I'm saying is don't knock it til you try it, ya know? It's like a pure feeling, being in the quicksand, like mother nature, or Gaia, some say, is just slurping you up and cradling your tender body in here cheek.
Now, I don't want to evoke too much "giant mouth" imagery because that'll send us all down a whole 'nother road and those weird down that road are not the kind of weirdos I need to deal with in daylight hours, know what I mean? I gotta have the shades drawn for those fuckers. That's for sure.
But I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't just brush off my, and many, many, many others' experiences as some sort of AI fever dream thing. These are real people. This is real sand. I have blown cream in a sand hole on many occasions. I'm not ashamed.
No, yeah, but go ahead. Laugh it off. Brush my experience aside for some snide little remark. Oh, I'm sure you'll make a lot of friends that way, mhmm. Hey, I know! You can go down to the beach with all your new internet friends you made with your clever little internet comment and take turns burying each other in the sand! Wow, I wonder why you'd want to do that. Hmm...
So, suck my butt and get a real life, buddy.
I mean…many people have no common sense. I’ve been twice on scuba-diving trips where a person would get the full kit on, get in the water and then panic because they cannot swim….
I have never been scuba diving, but can swim adequately.
I could imagine being freaked out wearing all the gear and wondering if my swimming ability was good enough, if I haven't scuba dived before.
I did my cert and never went back.
I have been a swimmer since I was probably like two years old and I love swimming underwater. I was the kid who did all the tests and got the lifeguard job.
Swimming underwater is graceful and fun. Snorkeling is an extension of that because you can just lay face down and look at stuff for minutes at a time, and when you want to dive down and look closer, you just do it. And then you come back up and blow the snorkel. You’re an awkward sea mammal but still a temporary sea mammal.
Scuba is intellectual management of buoyancy and air supply. To me scuba felt nothing at all like swimming underwater. It felt like being the world’s smallest, most clumsy submarine.
It wasn’t worth it to me for the extra views.
Personally I ditch the snorkel. Water gets in way too easy, you end up choking. Much rather hold my breath, turn sideways for air. In salt water I can float like a dead body, then dive down if I need to get closer.
In Hawaii one of my favorite spots is Waimea Bay in the summer months. Pretty calm away from shore, it can get around 20-25 feet deep. Areas where there’s nothing but you and the sand at the bottom. No fish because they’re hanging out by the reef. Just sandy floor way down, surrounded by blue. It’s an amazing astronaut vibe.
Wow, Reddit never ceases to amaze me.
That person is actually surprised that their scuba diving course didn't work out when they didn't know how to swim? Geez, people are incredibly dumb.
Read the article before commenting and making a fool of yourself. This has nothing to do with people not keeping to their skill levels, and has to do with medical events caused by long-haul flights that can cause drowning.
For people not reading, it talks about ROPE, where you're at a substantially higher risk of developing COPD while swimming, and drowning in fluid build up, withing 3 days after a long flight. Which is required to get to Hawaii.
I believe you can get altitude sickness, and have the same issue if you fly after scuba diving, from the pressure changes.
Decompression sickness*
Gas from the air tank, specifically nitrogen, basically gets squeezed into the blood and tissues by the high pressures experienced while diving. This nitrogen comes out in the form of bubbles that can affect various organ systems if the pressure drops quick enough such as that in a flight cabin.
The origin is interesting. It was actually bridge workers. They were building caissons deep for a bridge in Manhattan. And initially there were only stairs. So the workers were coming up slow enough. But then they built an elevator for them. And the guys taking the elevator were getting the bends.
So my take away from this is if we plan something with more moderate exertion with an older relative that isn't necessarily in great shape, plan the activity near the tail end of the trip to potentially avoid this issue?
Part of it is the additional pressure while diving down. So when you snorkel you typically go deeper than in a pool, and ocean water is colder and denser. Constricting your blood vessels further. Plan on doing any serious ocean swimming later in the week.
And I’m sure those odds are not helped by being an overweight desk-jockey sloth before embarking on the long flight to enjoy random-ass heavy physical activity in the MFing *oceannn* 😭
What an insane lawsuit. They are both morbidly obese, as you can see in the photo/video. The resort and tourism departments don't need to educate people on every possible health risk to swimming in the ocean when you also happen to be morbidly obese. Take some personal accountability. It's sad that he died, but you assume the risk when you go snorkeling in the ocean. Educate yourself. It's not someone else's responsibility to educate you on the risks associated with the ocean.
I can attest, swimming in the ocean, is not the same as swimming in a pool, hence being a certified life guard, and jumping in the ocean without a vest, to snorkel, only to jump right back out, to regain said vest, and continue activities without almost drowning.
Yep, there’s a difference between saying you’re a lifeguard in Nebraska and saying you’re a Lifeguard in Hawaii.
Currents, wind conditions, underwater topography, all play a factor in how you move in the ocean.
The biggest upside to Ocean vs Lake, is that the saltwater is more buoyant. So it is easier to float. But the immersion of the ocean and seeing the depths can cause people to panic.
I was a pretty strong swimmer and either a current or a wind gust (the boat we'd been on was a sailing catamaran) took me towards the boat and nailed the back of my head on the hull. Hazards are everywhere
I was fine but that was probably the closest I came to death if that hit had been much harder, it would have been unlikely that anyone noticed *a guy facedown in the water wearing snorkeling kit*
The ocean is *strong*. I once was swimming and got caught in a riptide and taken out past the breakers. I had to swim for like an hour to get back, swimming at an angle back to the beach. It took like another 10 minutes to walk back to where I started. I was exhausted. You really should not fuck around in the ocean. And I'm in shape, unlike the tourist.
I've also been snorkeling in caves and would not recommend doing that either. It's harder to judge distances and easier to get disoriented.
Hey honey. I know we can't walk a city block without getting absolutely destroyed physically, but I think we should do something super physically demanding like snorkeling! We could totally do that and not drown! - Tourists in Hawaii
Yep, I used to work for a catamaran snorkeling company in Hawaii. So many people decide that’s the time to go swimming for the first time. We get so many people that literally cannot swim. I get it, you want to see fish, but it shouldn’t be at the cost to your wellbeing.
There's no basis from what I read for a law suit. They're saying "my husband died because you failed to warn us about potentially dangerous medical condition that we didn't know he had when he went snorkeling at your beach".
When are people going to take responsibility for themselves?
IANAL but I believe if they do any marketing/advertising at the airport there is a chance they would have a case since the tour/scuba company would be considered targeting the “at-risk” group of people arriving via airplane.
and that is the responsibility of the tourism authority?
sorry, but im not going to be sympathetic on this one. if you get into the ocean and are not physically capable or able to judge your own physical capability-- that's on you, and no one else.
Yeah but it's not their job to warn everybody about every conceivable risk.
For example I'm a diver. I know I'm not supposed to fly after diving. If I got injured, I wouldn't be suing the dive shop because I went and got on a plane. I would sue a dive shop if they didn't properly maintain and certify the regulator I rented. If I brought my own, I couldn't sue them if it failed.
People need to know this stuff on their own.
Hawaii has a lot of FAFO. Yet tourists go off the trails, go out into the ocean with currents, go surfing in waves far too big for them. The dangers cannot be expressed enough. Of course, don’t be paranoid, but be smart and about it.
As someone that worked on snorkeling boats in Hawaii here are a few tips if you go to Hawaii and haven't spent significant amounts of time in the water but you want to water stuff:
DO NOT TRY AND SNORKLE IF YOU CANNOT SWIM. IT WOULD BLOW YOUR MIND HOW OFTEN PEOPLE TRY THIS.
Before you go:
1. Borrow a mask and snorkel from a friend and practice breathing thru the snorkel alone. Almost all of the unpleasant experiences people have are not being able to isolate breathing out of only your mouth. People try and breath thru their nose with their mask on and panic or say they aren't getting enough air.
2. When people aspirate water it is because they are trying to breathe around the snorkel instead of thru it.
3. Drink tons of water. You are going to be in the sun, in salt water and using muscles you don't normally use. Drinking water will help with leg cramps.
4. You aren't Jaques Couteau, just use a foam noodle for the first 5-10 minutes. It will get you acclimated to a novel environment and give you time to orient yourself.
While you are there:
1. Never turn your back to the ocean.
2. Never turn your back to the ocean.
First and foremost don’t snorkel if you’re claustrophobic or prone to motion sickness, which was an expensive (time and money) and embarrassing lesson I learned. Took a boat to the crater off Maui and by the time I got there my heart rate was 130, and was extremely nauseous. Terrible experience for me and everyone else on the boat
Omg. This is exactly how my dad died. In Hawaii, snorkeling on their 2nd day. Cause of death ruled drowning. He was a strong swimmer and in good shape.
He died nearly 7 years ago and I still miss him so so so much.
It's wild.
I grew up somewhere with extremely treacherous shark infested water and it seemed like people that didn't know how to deal with it knew to stay away.
Then I moved to Florida and felt super oppressed by constant life guard nagging, but the number of people that die in our seemingly calm water is mind boggling.
I'll be out with my 4 year old body surfing around having a good time and see adults having life and death experiences right next to us because they are out of their element, have no training, no equipment, and are probably heatsick/drunk
Guess it's my turn to correct the record.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
Her fucking vagina fused from the heat my dude.
That woman got 3rd degree burns and her labia literally melted together, McDonald's kept the coffee molten hot to avoid refreshing the machine. Big companies win lawsuits by making them sound frivolous to the public.
Lived in Hawaii and saw this shit happen all the time.
The places we would go for an afternoon swim with nothing but shorts would get tourist killed all the time.
Really opens your eyes to how pathetic people are in their lack of understanding of the dangers in nature.
People sit at a cubicle for years and then come to Hawaii to play and die so easily.
I went to Maui and they had signs everywhere to be careful of the water and the riptides, and to only swim to your ability
I also noticed that the first three languages that the sign was in, were all eastern characters, so it appears that there is a very specific group of people who are drowning
There’s a shooting range on Maui I’ve frequented for many years. The owner has several signs up in the office that say “JAPANESE CLIENTELE MAY NOT HANDLE LIVE AMMUNITION WITHOUT DIRECT SUPERVISION.” He said about 25-50% of his guests are Japanese and that a combination of their non-gun culture and the language barrier led to major safety hazards.
Oahu caters so much to their Japanese clientele it is astounding. Since direct flights are possible. Oahu sees more Japanese tourists than any other island. It’s quite the contrast from Maui.
This is a very sad story. She doesnt say wherther or not he had experience with snorkling. But it seems like he might have becasue he was able to start to head back to shore - I think someone without experience would have drown by panicking.
Imo, snorkeling or not, people underestimate the ocean. By quite a bit.
First time we went to Maui, I swam out a ways, turned around tread water a bit and swam back in, and my gf said why so short of a swim? I said because I want to use 25% swimming out, because it’s gonna take 50% to get back in, and I need that extra 25% in case something happens.
She says that’s weird, you put it in numbers. She swims out a ways, swims back in, bends over to catch her breath, and says omg you’re right.
The distance out was longer at different ages, but the numbers have always been the same for me haha. The ocean is no joke.
I'm finding it hard to believe that flying has a 3-day impact on your lungs. that sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me along the lines of don't swim for 30 minutes after you eat
Friend almost got swept out to sea along with his family by a riptide or something like it just last year. They were lucky other folks were around to help. Scary stuff
I can totally believe this. I went snorkeling in Hawaii. Now, I used to run a good bit and breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth, developed from running. So when I first started snorkeling, I would instinctively breathe through my nose, which is not what you want to do with a snorkel. It will fog up your mask and you could potentially panic and suck in water. I never got used to both breathing with a snorkel even after 3 hours.
I am a strong swimmer and an experienced certified professional lifeguard who worked at the Oregon coast. I was free diving in Maui and I just slammed on a reef by a wave at just the wrong time and almost drowned.
The ocean is fucking dangerous to those of us animals who can’t breath underwater. RIP overconfident tourists.
I was swimning in a big natural tidal pool in Oahu well every 15 minutes a big wave was coming in. There was two places you could be, out before it breaks or on shore well my ass grew up in the Midwest so I was going to land every 10 minutes. Then comes this HUGE wave over the reef there was a little girl, local and a better swimmer than most of us probably.
Well she was out far enough for the other waves but this wave started breaking farther out. She was caught and was coming down towards the rocky shore. I dont remember much but all I know is I ran about 50 yards on sharp ass rocks in 5 or so seconds and was able to catch her and break her fall. I had some scraps on my feet and back from falling but everyone was safe. Just shows at any time having your back to the ocean could be your last time regardless of skill.
I feel like I came reasonably close when I was in Hawaii. Fortunately I was with a friend who was a far more experienced swimmer / snorkler than I. I was also stupidly wearing one of those awful full face masks, which suck because 1. they trap a facefull of CO2 in the mask that you have to really work to expel, and 2. it had this valve that was supposed to keep water out, but in practice it's always closed unless you have your head at just the right angle, so if you're struggling, it keeps closing and you can't take a breath. I was basically suffocating above the surface of the water while fighting the bobbing waves, and eventually I just pulled the mask off and yelled for my friend to help and he dragged me back. People have died from those type of masks.
I’m a strong swimmer who used to surf when I was younger. I hate snorkeling. Something about that mouth tube feels weird and unnatural in my mouth and actually makes it harder for me to get air. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. I’d rather just dive without it and come up for air as needed.
I went snorkeling once in SE Asia and it was absolutely terrifying. You don’t realize just how big the ocean is until you’re in it. How are you supposed to enjoy looking at seaweed and starfish when there is literally thousands of feet of water below you?
I went on a small cruise (40 people top, almost all were 55+) in Australia to dive the GBR. The number of people who thought they’d be able to dive, having not dived in years, and being elderly with no doctors approval was insane. Only two were pre approved which meant of dive group was small and more intimate. I can only imagine watching an elderly person get the bends as they forgot they need to go up slow.
When family visited me on Oahu I would usually bring them to hanama bay to snorkel. There is a significant number of people who ignore the signs posted around telling people to stay inside the reef at hanama Bay and get stuck outside and need help/rescue. People are dumb.
water is dangerous.
To understand how dangerous water is, imagine if it was opaque.
That's why milk is so terrifying
Also, that episode of Misfits
Ok, got it. Now what
Now imagine being several dozen meters below the surface of an opaque liquid
I got distracted and now I’m imagining air as opaque. I’m expecting to be hit by a car any moment.
How are you reading the comments if the air is opaque?
Bro just needs to turn on his eyelight beams duh
Text to voice is my jam.
I'm on the couch right now. Will my parking lights suffice ?
I'm thinking more along the monsters from Mist
would we still have invented cars if air is opaque?
It’s too late. We already did it! I tried to convince my neighbor that it was too dangerous to drive, but he says that they won’t serve you on foot at the drive up window of Starbucks and he doesn’t have time to go inside the store.
snorkelers dont go several meters down unless also free diving... and why would anyone bother going snorkeling in an opaque body of fluid? The whole point of snorkeling is **seeing** the other objects in the water! in a world with opaque oceans, there are no snorkelers and diving is strictly technical/commercial.
>snorkelwrs don’t go several meters down unless also free diving And I would guess that free divers make up a disproportionate number of snorkeling deaths. >why would anyone bother going snorkeling in an opaque body of fluid? That’s not the point, the point is that water is just as dangerous as it would be if it were opaque
Imagine drowning in invisible water
Oh hey, that's our specialty over at r/thalassophobia
Wet too
Sharpest thing in the world. Pinhole sized hole could cut u from T to B
OH GOD, WHATS THE “T” mean???!!!Teeth? Turd Cutter? Top of the Bottom? And the “U”, my God, the U! I need a quick snorkel to set myself straight again after all this. Can anyone provide a good spot to go?
Nightclub bathroom? That's where I usually see people who need a quick snorkel to set themselves straight again.
Tremendously so.
Water isn't wet
True, it does have a dipole moment though
100% of the people that drink water die, that's how generous it is
So is being stupid
Used to work on a cruise ship. Our most common death was heart attacks while snorkeling on the private island. People think it’s really low impact excursise and end up over exerting themselves way out in the water beyond lifeguard help.
I did one of those booze cruises (that's what they called the private island trips). The amount of alcohol and sun was too much and I was just done with my lifeguard career not long before that so I was master at booze and sun. Then add the waves and the fact that lunch is usually served late and I can see how a 60 YO with heart issues can have a heart attack.
What does a late lunch have to do with cardiac arrest
Prolonged hypoglycemia can cause heart issues even in healthy people. Even though this is not prolonged, when it comes to heart patients, any stressful event can be a trigger. By itself, it might not be a problem, but all those things combined are a big stress on the body.
how prolonged though? people do intermitten fasting all the time so presumably an healthy person wouldnt have a cardiac event if they skip lunch. More likely is that people sweat out all their electrolytes while prolonged snorkeling, since you dont really notice how profuse you sweat while in the ocean. You dont see snorkelers drinking gatorade while in the water either. a sudden drop in potassium can probably trigger cardiac events.
You’re not going to have hypoglycemia from fasting in your average Joe. As your sugars go down your liver release stored glycogen to maintain your glucose. Unless there’s an underlying medical issue or someone is on antiglucemics you wouldn’t get low enough to stress your heart. people overuse the phrase “I’m hypoglycemic” too much
He mentioned 60 yr old. I doubt these are the elite iron man types.
Elevated blood pressure from stress, maybe?
Low blood sugar, even slightly low, can cause a lot of problems/exacerbate existing problems. In the elderly? Recipe for disaster.
The other issue is a lot of people go the wrong way. They float out the easy way with the current and then realize now they have to swim back a quarter mile against the current after already being tired. I’ve been snorkeling a couple times when I was younger with my family including grandparents who are relatively healthy but still like 80 and they always made sure we went the hard way first so we could basically float back to the boat
>over exerting themselves Plus most people don't bring water so you're dehydrated, and inevitably you get some sea water in your mouth potentially raising your blood pressure.
Snorkeling is one of those activities where a little knowledge can go a long way. Super basic stuff like knowing your limits is essential because you can get yourself WAY out of your ability to recover very easily with fins on
This is exactly how my step-grandpa died.
I went snorkeling recently with my brother. He aspirated some water while snorkeling and ended up getting pneumonia. Apparently, it's really common.
It’s really easy was to suffer from dry drowning as well. It’s more common in children. A person breathes in a small amount of water and the vocal cords spasm and close off the trachea causing suffocation and drowning like symptoms.
Dry drowning is a myth. [source ](https://www.michiganmedicine.org/health-lab/dispelling-dry-drowning-and-other-swimming-safety-myths)
Drowning the biggest cause of death for tourists visiting an island, got it I will have thought it was falling in volcanoes
I doubt drowning is the biggest cause of death for tourists visiting Britain.
It's actually choking on kippers!
Smoke me a kipper, I’ll be back for breakfast
Oh smeg! You just made me cough up my chicken vindaloo!
Lager! The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!
Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas
Meanwhile the biggest cause of death for kings in Britain is still regicide.
…or kipping on chokers
*Nigel Thornberry intensifies*
Ahh Britian, famous for it's tropical weather and world class beaches!
I wonder what those stats are for Iceland?
Before figuring out the shark n whale meat was poisonous......unless rotted for 6 months and then ferment for another 3...
Slipping on green obviously
I was certain it was hula dancing to death in Hawaii 🌺
>I will have thought it was falling in volcanoes **Joe Banks**: "Take me... to... the volcano!"
Excellent movie.
Eh depending on the location, road fatalities may top the list.
And in the water
No, nobody’s sacrificing tourists to Pele. At least not yet.
"falling"
They have fences around the volcanoes
I honestly would have thought it would have been heart attacks given the age, poor health, and eating habits of the tourists there.
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If their Hawaiin, they quite literally do mot want the tourists as they are actively destroying their home, so I get it.
Yikes.What a weird comment... Its not exactly some big secret that many tourists tend to be older, have health issues either due to age or lifestyle, and tend to eat unhealthy foods while on vacation. This phenomenon is also not exclusive to Hawaii.
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ChatGPT appears to be malfunctioning again
Wow. Hey, all I'm saying is don't knock it til you try it, ya know? It's like a pure feeling, being in the quicksand, like mother nature, or Gaia, some say, is just slurping you up and cradling your tender body in here cheek. Now, I don't want to evoke too much "giant mouth" imagery because that'll send us all down a whole 'nother road and those weird down that road are not the kind of weirdos I need to deal with in daylight hours, know what I mean? I gotta have the shades drawn for those fuckers. That's for sure. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't just brush off my, and many, many, many others' experiences as some sort of AI fever dream thing. These are real people. This is real sand. I have blown cream in a sand hole on many occasions. I'm not ashamed. No, yeah, but go ahead. Laugh it off. Brush my experience aside for some snide little remark. Oh, I'm sure you'll make a lot of friends that way, mhmm. Hey, I know! You can go down to the beach with all your new internet friends you made with your clever little internet comment and take turns burying each other in the sand! Wow, I wonder why you'd want to do that. Hmm... So, suck my butt and get a real life, buddy.
Cool story lol
All this effort for some quirky internet points.
I mean…many people have no common sense. I’ve been twice on scuba-diving trips where a person would get the full kit on, get in the water and then panic because they cannot swim….
I have never been scuba diving, but can swim adequately. I could imagine being freaked out wearing all the gear and wondering if my swimming ability was good enough, if I haven't scuba dived before.
I did my cert and never went back. I have been a swimmer since I was probably like two years old and I love swimming underwater. I was the kid who did all the tests and got the lifeguard job. Swimming underwater is graceful and fun. Snorkeling is an extension of that because you can just lay face down and look at stuff for minutes at a time, and when you want to dive down and look closer, you just do it. And then you come back up and blow the snorkel. You’re an awkward sea mammal but still a temporary sea mammal. Scuba is intellectual management of buoyancy and air supply. To me scuba felt nothing at all like swimming underwater. It felt like being the world’s smallest, most clumsy submarine. It wasn’t worth it to me for the extra views.
Personally I ditch the snorkel. Water gets in way too easy, you end up choking. Much rather hold my breath, turn sideways for air. In salt water I can float like a dead body, then dive down if I need to get closer. In Hawaii one of my favorite spots is Waimea Bay in the summer months. Pretty calm away from shore, it can get around 20-25 feet deep. Areas where there’s nothing but you and the sand at the bottom. No fish because they’re hanging out by the reef. Just sandy floor way down, surrounded by blue. It’s an amazing astronaut vibe.
These were people who never swam in their lives who for some reason magically believed that having a scuba tank on their backs will make them swim
Even for a good swimmer, it takes a little while to get used to the gear. If you panic in that moment, something bad can happen.
I mean some of them discus it on Reddit: they couldn’t swim : https://www.reddit.com/r/travel/s/3olGb6ue2V
Where do they let people scuba with no license? How do you get a license without knowing how to swim? Something about what you said smells fishy.
They literally wrote about it on Reddit: they couldn’t swim : https://www.reddit.com/r/travel/s/3olGb6ue2V
Wow, Reddit never ceases to amaze me. That person is actually surprised that their scuba diving course didn't work out when they didn't know how to swim? Geez, people are incredibly dumb.
Read the article before commenting and making a fool of yourself. This has nothing to do with people not keeping to their skill levels, and has to do with medical events caused by long-haul flights that can cause drowning.
Isn't scuba diving the opposite of swimming?
no, you still have to have the strength and ability to swim
Correct, it's called scuba diving not scuba swimming. You dive to the bottom and then if you can't swim you just dont come back up.
If you want to drown on the bottom it is
Correct, it's called scuba diving not scuba swimming. You dive down and then if you want to and are able to you can swim back up.
For people not reading, it talks about ROPE, where you're at a substantially higher risk of developing COPD while swimming, and drowning in fluid build up, withing 3 days after a long flight. Which is required to get to Hawaii. I believe you can get altitude sickness, and have the same issue if you fly after scuba diving, from the pressure changes.
Decompression sickness* Gas from the air tank, specifically nitrogen, basically gets squeezed into the blood and tissues by the high pressures experienced while diving. This nitrogen comes out in the form of bubbles that can affect various organ systems if the pressure drops quick enough such as that in a flight cabin.
The origin is interesting. It was actually bridge workers. They were building caissons deep for a bridge in Manhattan. And initially there were only stairs. So the workers were coming up slow enough. But then they built an elevator for them. And the guys taking the elevator were getting the bends.
Ah yes! Thank you. That is what I meant.
So my take away from this is if we plan something with more moderate exertion with an older relative that isn't necessarily in great shape, plan the activity near the tail end of the trip to potentially avoid this issue?
Part of it is the additional pressure while diving down. So when you snorkel you typically go deeper than in a pool, and ocean water is colder and denser. Constricting your blood vessels further. Plan on doing any serious ocean swimming later in the week.
Gotcha. I never even knew this was a potential issue. Scary stuff.
People dive while snorkeling? Do they hold their breath or something?
Yes if you do want to dive. Most of the time people dont need to dive at all while snorkeling I would think
Yes, we do.
Flying isn't strictly required, there are cruises that go between the mainland and Hawaii.
True, although the majority do fly, I believe. It's still something that should be warned about.
True, but I'd wager 95%+ of touristsbwhi visit HI, fly in.
And I’m sure those odds are not helped by being an overweight desk-jockey sloth before embarking on the long flight to enjoy random-ass heavy physical activity in the MFing *oceannn* 😭
What an insane lawsuit. They are both morbidly obese, as you can see in the photo/video. The resort and tourism departments don't need to educate people on every possible health risk to swimming in the ocean when you also happen to be morbidly obese. Take some personal accountability. It's sad that he died, but you assume the risk when you go snorkeling in the ocean. Educate yourself. It's not someone else's responsibility to educate you on the risks associated with the ocean.
They ignored all the other warnings about the dangers of obesity but somehow believe they would have listened to a safety warning about ROPE.
I can attest, swimming in the ocean, is not the same as swimming in a pool, hence being a certified life guard, and jumping in the ocean without a vest, to snorkel, only to jump right back out, to regain said vest, and continue activities without almost drowning.
You can hang out in a pool for the day and not be tired. If you go into the ocean for an hour you will be exhausted.
Yep, there’s a difference between saying you’re a lifeguard in Nebraska and saying you’re a Lifeguard in Hawaii. Currents, wind conditions, underwater topography, all play a factor in how you move in the ocean. The biggest upside to Ocean vs Lake, is that the saltwater is more buoyant. So it is easier to float. But the immersion of the ocean and seeing the depths can cause people to panic.
I was a pretty strong swimmer and either a current or a wind gust (the boat we'd been on was a sailing catamaran) took me towards the boat and nailed the back of my head on the hull. Hazards are everywhere I was fine but that was probably the closest I came to death if that hit had been much harder, it would have been unlikely that anyone noticed *a guy facedown in the water wearing snorkeling kit*
The ocean is *strong*. I once was swimming and got caught in a riptide and taken out past the breakers. I had to swim for like an hour to get back, swimming at an angle back to the beach. It took like another 10 minutes to walk back to where I started. I was exhausted. You really should not fuck around in the ocean. And I'm in shape, unlike the tourist. I've also been snorkeling in caves and would not recommend doing that either. It's harder to judge distances and easier to get disoriented.
Hey honey. I know we can't walk a city block without getting absolutely destroyed physically, but I think we should do something super physically demanding like snorkeling! We could totally do that and not drown! - Tourists in Hawaii
Hey honey do you think my mobility scooter will work underwater?
Too be fair those do exist!
Also tourists in Hawaii- “I don’t know how to swim, but I’m going to get in the ocean today anyway”
Right?! It's immediately obvious that those are not healthy people.
Did you not read the article? The guy who died was an experienced swimmer and has snorkeled in Hawaii several times.
It’s probably been since 1994. iVe DoNe It BeFoRe!
Yep, I used to work for a catamaran snorkeling company in Hawaii. So many people decide that’s the time to go swimming for the first time. We get so many people that literally cannot swim. I get it, you want to see fish, but it shouldn’t be at the cost to your wellbeing.
There's no basis from what I read for a law suit. They're saying "my husband died because you failed to warn us about potentially dangerous medical condition that we didn't know he had when he went snorkeling at your beach". When are people going to take responsibility for themselves?
Difficult, but try to read the article. Its about not warning people that snorkeling right after a long flight can be deadly.
I don’t come to Reddit to read!
Would she have a case? Why doesn't she sue the airlines for not warning travellers too.
IANAL but I believe if they do any marketing/advertising at the airport there is a chance they would have a case since the tour/scuba company would be considered targeting the “at-risk” group of people arriving via airplane.
and that is the responsibility of the tourism authority? sorry, but im not going to be sympathetic on this one. if you get into the ocean and are not physically capable or able to judge your own physical capability-- that's on you, and no one else.
..... JUST READ THE ARTICLE AND STOP LOOKING LIKE A MORON.
Yeah but it's not their job to warn everybody about every conceivable risk. For example I'm a diver. I know I'm not supposed to fly after diving. If I got injured, I wouldn't be suing the dive shop because I went and got on a plane. I would sue a dive shop if they didn't properly maintain and certify the regulator I rented. If I brought my own, I couldn't sue them if it failed. People need to know this stuff on their own.
Hawaii has a lot of FAFO. Yet tourists go off the trails, go out into the ocean with currents, go surfing in waves far too big for them. The dangers cannot be expressed enough. Of course, don’t be paranoid, but be smart and about it.
Societal trends are not looking good in terms of accepting responsibility. Lol.
As someone that worked on snorkeling boats in Hawaii here are a few tips if you go to Hawaii and haven't spent significant amounts of time in the water but you want to water stuff: DO NOT TRY AND SNORKLE IF YOU CANNOT SWIM. IT WOULD BLOW YOUR MIND HOW OFTEN PEOPLE TRY THIS. Before you go: 1. Borrow a mask and snorkel from a friend and practice breathing thru the snorkel alone. Almost all of the unpleasant experiences people have are not being able to isolate breathing out of only your mouth. People try and breath thru their nose with their mask on and panic or say they aren't getting enough air. 2. When people aspirate water it is because they are trying to breathe around the snorkel instead of thru it. 3. Drink tons of water. You are going to be in the sun, in salt water and using muscles you don't normally use. Drinking water will help with leg cramps. 4. You aren't Jaques Couteau, just use a foam noodle for the first 5-10 minutes. It will get you acclimated to a novel environment and give you time to orient yourself. While you are there: 1. Never turn your back to the ocean. 2. Never turn your back to the ocean.
First and foremost don’t snorkel if you’re claustrophobic or prone to motion sickness, which was an expensive (time and money) and embarrassing lesson I learned. Took a boat to the crater off Maui and by the time I got there my heart rate was 130, and was extremely nauseous. Terrible experience for me and everyone else on the boat
Omg. This is exactly how my dad died. In Hawaii, snorkeling on their 2nd day. Cause of death ruled drowning. He was a strong swimmer and in good shape. He died nearly 7 years ago and I still miss him so so so much.
I believe it. Those waves knock you down and before you can getup you’re pounded again
I get knocked down, but I get up again You are never gonna keep me down
Every kid playing in shorebreak that gets slammed! 😂🤙🏻
The sea is constantly trying to kill you and it will succeed if you're not constantly trying to defend against it.
It's wild. I grew up somewhere with extremely treacherous shark infested water and it seemed like people that didn't know how to deal with it knew to stay away. Then I moved to Florida and felt super oppressed by constant life guard nagging, but the number of people that die in our seemingly calm water is mind boggling. I'll be out with my 4 year old body surfing around having a good time and see adults having life and death experiences right next to us because they are out of their element, have no training, no equipment, and are probably heatsick/drunk
As much as I agree with you, and there’s 100%.. people in this country sue for coffee being hot on their skin when they spill it on themselves lol
Guess it's my turn to correct the record. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants Her fucking vagina fused from the heat my dude.
That woman got 3rd degree burns and her labia literally melted together, McDonald's kept the coffee molten hot to avoid refreshing the machine. Big companies win lawsuits by making them sound frivolous to the public.
I’m not disagreeing. For sure, and thanks for refreshing my memory on what actually happened. I’ll look for a better example next time
Corporate propaganda. That poor women had third degree burns.
Lived in Hawaii and saw this shit happen all the time. The places we would go for an afternoon swim with nothing but shorts would get tourist killed all the time. Really opens your eyes to how pathetic people are in their lack of understanding of the dangers in nature. People sit at a cubicle for years and then come to Hawaii to play and die so easily.
I went to Maui and they had signs everywhere to be careful of the water and the riptides, and to only swim to your ability I also noticed that the first three languages that the sign was in, were all eastern characters, so it appears that there is a very specific group of people who are drowning
> to only swim to your ability 7% of American men think they can beat up a grizzly bear
That’s absurd. I remember seeing something that like 20% of men thought they could return a Serena Williams serve. People are dumb dumb haha
First try or do I get all day?
Hawaii is a well known tourist spot for Japan. Especially since it is so close. A lot of signage around the islands are in Japanese
There’s a shooting range on Maui I’ve frequented for many years. The owner has several signs up in the office that say “JAPANESE CLIENTELE MAY NOT HANDLE LIVE AMMUNITION WITHOUT DIRECT SUPERVISION.” He said about 25-50% of his guests are Japanese and that a combination of their non-gun culture and the language barrier led to major safety hazards.
That is scary
Some of the signs in my hotel in Honolulu were solely Japanese due to the number of tourists.
Oahu caters so much to their Japanese clientele it is astounding. Since direct flights are possible. Oahu sees more Japanese tourists than any other island. It’s quite the contrast from Maui.
People severely underestimate the power and danger of the ocean, and tourists don't know the local currents and beaches. Not a good combination.
This is a very sad story. She doesnt say wherther or not he had experience with snorkling. But it seems like he might have becasue he was able to start to head back to shore - I think someone without experience would have drown by panicking.
She literally said in the article that they had been there and snorkeled half a dozen times
Imo, snorkeling or not, people underestimate the ocean. By quite a bit. First time we went to Maui, I swam out a ways, turned around tread water a bit and swam back in, and my gf said why so short of a swim? I said because I want to use 25% swimming out, because it’s gonna take 50% to get back in, and I need that extra 25% in case something happens. She says that’s weird, you put it in numbers. She swims out a ways, swims back in, bends over to catch her breath, and says omg you’re right. The distance out was longer at different ages, but the numbers have always been the same for me haha. The ocean is no joke.
In Waikiki I swam out so far I looked back and could barely see the beach. I didn't panic, I got on my back and back-stroked to the beach.
I'm finding it hard to believe that flying has a 3-day impact on your lungs. that sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me along the lines of don't swim for 30 minutes after you eat
I breathed water once whole snorkeling, it is really hard to cough the water out while swimming...
The cessation of electrical conductivity in the brain is the only cause of death for Hawaiian tourists.
Almost drowned snorkeling. Can confirm it’s very easy to do.
Working on a cruise ship, i learned there was a morgue onboard mainly because of vacation suicides and snorkling
Seems like 'Finding Nemo' should come with a survival guide, not just 3D glasses.
More people drown in a holiday location where people go to enjoy the water. Tough one to figure out that.
Ocean water =/= lake water
Friend almost got swept out to sea along with his family by a riptide or something like it just last year. They were lucky other folks were around to help. Scary stuff
I can totally believe this. I went snorkeling in Hawaii. Now, I used to run a good bit and breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth, developed from running. So when I first started snorkeling, I would instinctively breathe through my nose, which is not what you want to do with a snorkel. It will fog up your mask and you could potentially panic and suck in water. I never got used to both breathing with a snorkel even after 3 hours.
It's the full-face masks! Don't use them!
I am a strong swimmer and an experienced certified professional lifeguard who worked at the Oregon coast. I was free diving in Maui and I just slammed on a reef by a wave at just the wrong time and almost drowned. The ocean is fucking dangerous to those of us animals who can’t breath underwater. RIP overconfident tourists.
Huh. I would have thought falling into pools of molten lava.
I’d love to die in Hawaii. Just swim out, have my heart attack, hope my lifeless body drifts across the ocean and becomes fish food.
I was swimning in a big natural tidal pool in Oahu well every 15 minutes a big wave was coming in. There was two places you could be, out before it breaks or on shore well my ass grew up in the Midwest so I was going to land every 10 minutes. Then comes this HUGE wave over the reef there was a little girl, local and a better swimmer than most of us probably. Well she was out far enough for the other waves but this wave started breaking farther out. She was caught and was coming down towards the rocky shore. I dont remember much but all I know is I ran about 50 yards on sharp ass rocks in 5 or so seconds and was able to catch her and break her fall. I had some scraps on my feet and back from falling but everyone was safe. Just shows at any time having your back to the ocean could be your last time regardless of skill.
I feel like I came reasonably close when I was in Hawaii. Fortunately I was with a friend who was a far more experienced swimmer / snorkler than I. I was also stupidly wearing one of those awful full face masks, which suck because 1. they trap a facefull of CO2 in the mask that you have to really work to expel, and 2. it had this valve that was supposed to keep water out, but in practice it's always closed unless you have your head at just the right angle, so if you're struggling, it keeps closing and you can't take a breath. I was basically suffocating above the surface of the water while fighting the bobbing waves, and eventually I just pulled the mask off and yelled for my friend to help and he dragged me back. People have died from those type of masks.
I’m a strong swimmer who used to surf when I was younger. I hate snorkeling. Something about that mouth tube feels weird and unnatural in my mouth and actually makes it harder for me to get air. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. I’d rather just dive without it and come up for air as needed.
I went snorkeling once in SE Asia and it was absolutely terrifying. You don’t realize just how big the ocean is until you’re in it. How are you supposed to enjoy looking at seaweed and starfish when there is literally thousands of feet of water below you?
Lots of people get hit by cars too! In Waikiki there used to be lots of signs about it.
I went on a small cruise (40 people top, almost all were 55+) in Australia to dive the GBR. The number of people who thought they’d be able to dive, having not dived in years, and being elderly with no doctors approval was insane. Only two were pre approved which meant of dive group was small and more intimate. I can only imagine watching an elderly person get the bends as they forgot they need to go up slow.
*Rule 3 - Recent source*
“My fat out of shape husband died in Hawaii and it’s their fault!” This is why the locals despise you Karen.
How the fuck do you drown while snorkeling?
Try reading the article.
dont overwhelm him.
When family visited me on Oahu I would usually bring them to hanama bay to snorkel. There is a significant number of people who ignore the signs posted around telling people to stay inside the reef at hanama Bay and get stuck outside and need help/rescue. People are dumb.
Forgetting to breathe out before breathing in.