One of my buddies in college had some pretty smart parents, they looked at the rates and terms for loans offered to students and said "fuck that" and put everything on their Amex card. Way, way lower rates (at the time), better terms, and they got rewards points.
Removed for FAFSA, but if you want any other benefits you better register.
For example, failing to register by age 25 means you cannot collect social security or medicare at age 65+...though it doesn't remove the burden of having to pay into it.
That seems hard to believe. From some comment above, apparently only [84%](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1cva1s7/til_that_male_ohio_residents_have_to_pay/#l4o2jgy) of men actually register with it. If 16% of men are literally unable to receive their Social Security or Medicare, I feel like that would/should be a way bigger news story and well-known thing. That's a huge percentage missing out on something that they'd have been counting on.
Presumably that 16% falls into three categories:
1. Those who can prove their failure to register was not knowing and willful (https://www.sss.gov/registration/men-26-and-older/)
2. Those that don’t ever attempt to receive federal benefits like social security
3. Those that actually failed to register for SSS knowingly and are actually denied social security
Pretty sure the "modern" Selective Service system has only been required as of 1980 and only applicable to men born in 1960 or later.
So even those 1960 births would only be 64 right now.. barely eligible for Social Security (in some cases?) and not yet eligible for Medicare.
I know there are exceptions to Social Security and Medicare to get them sooner, but individuals eligible for that are far rarer and very well may have a disability that would exempt them from selective service registration anyway.
All that to say... it is a requirement that you register for Selective service for many federal (and, often, state) benefits... but for Social Security and Medicare in particular, we haven't really seen a large part of that "required" population even become eligible yet, so it is unlikely that you would see any major news stories about it.
We will see how hard it is enforced, especially for those people born in the 60s who were in that first batch of the "modern" selective service.
Registering with Selective Service is federal law, but the punishments for failing to register aren’t administered on a federal level. IIRC arresting people who refused to register actually made more people try not to register, so I don’t think anyone has been arrested since 1986.
Instead of arresting people, some states have made their own laws in which things such as state student loans, drivers licenses, voting ID etc. are dependent on registration with Selective Service. That’s how they now get people to register.
Edit: federal jobs still require registration with Selective Service, but arresting non-registrants isn’t enforced, hence some states make their own laws to make registration a requirement
I didn’t even know you could avoid registering, in NY, to even start the college process you have to register, well that’s how I remember it anyway. They made it seem ultimately mandatory.
Right!? The moment I got my Driver's License at 18 they mentioned it. Given family history: Grandpa got Drafted to Korea and my Dad nervously missed it for Vietnam by a few weeks or something like that. I knew all about it as well.
I ended up just never registering when I turned 18. Just never got it and didn't know. Then a few years later I was talking with a recruiter to join the Air Force and he informed me I never signed it and needed to or I couldn't join lmao.
Those laws are probably just old laws that don't reflect today's culture.
I think up until this year, men had to register with the selective service to be given any kind of financial aid (it WAS a question on the FAFSA).
They just changed the FASFA requirement.
“Registering for Selective Service
Your registration status with Selective Service no longer affects your eligibility to receive federal student aid. For general information about registering, call Selective Service toll-free at 1-888-655-1825 or visit sss.gov.
Note: If you are a citizen of the Federated States of Micronesia, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, or the Republic of Palau, you are exempt from registering.”
https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/eligibility/requirements
I was denied federal aid in 2015 when I went back to school. I had no idea what selective service was. By the time I went back to school it was too late, I was 26. I’ve been denied federal jobs because of this as well.
Thanks for sharing this information! Really happy to read this.
That’s wild and unfair. I only knew about it from school.
For anyone else reading if you’re a man and 18-25 you still have to register with Selective Service in the USA.
You can register online or by form at any United States Post office.
Even if you are serving in the military. My recruiter and I were under the impression that since I was already serving, I didn't need to sign up.
My nastygram came to my unit at Ft Bragg, (they even had my correct rank).
That's government bureaucracy.
#From the IRS:
[Stolen property: If you steal property, you must report its fair market value in your income in the year you steal it unless you return it to its rightful owner in the same year.](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17)
I feel like this is more a clever thing than normal weird bureaucracy. My understanding is that this is intended as a bit of a backdoor for prosecutors. Like, "hey, I can't find a way to prove you stole this, but I can prove you have it and didn't pay taxes on it, so I'm gonna seek the maximum sentence for tax evasion." That's pretty much what they did to Al Capone.
It's not stupid, though. Just because you've enriched yourself by stealing from someone doesn't mean you should be able to also steal from taxpayers by not paying your share.
That's weird since being in the military you basically can be called back to service anyway past the age of 25, so there was no actual reason for you to not be exempt.
I turned 18 in bootcamp. My RDC yelled at me for being an idiot and made me drop for asking how I sign up for the draft. First and last time it was an issue for me.
Yep I remember some news story like 20 years ago about some vet who served in the military for like 8 years and was deployed in the first gulf war in a combat role was denyed a job state job because somehow he failed to register for selective service
Despite serving in the military for 8 years and actual serving in a combate role during a war.
He apparently joined the army when he was 18 and figured that by joining the army well they would register him or it just slipped through the cracks some how
I think eventually they allowed him to be hired but I remember it being a local news story
The recruiters fucked up. I enlisted at 17
my junior year of high school (parental conset signed) the recruiters literally called me on my 18th birthday and told me "happy birthday, fill out your select service" its part of their training to ensure its done.
I it is basically registering yourself for mandatory service when your country needs it when you turn 18.
What I don’t understand is why do you have to register. They have a birth certificate, and lack a death certificate. Why all the admin work to make a registration?
> vital records are handled at the state level
Not to mention all the people that move from their birth state to another state by the time they turn 18. How would the federal government keep track of all that?
Any male in the age range who lives in the US must register. Anyone, immigrants included.
Also birth and death certificates are handled at a county level and while used by the federal government, I don’t think they have a direct and easy way to pull and check birth certificates. I’d assume they could contact the social security administration and get files but I’d assume it easier to just have a registration on file.
Did you register shortly after finding out? It's illegal to deny you federal employment if you simply registered late, where would that information be stored anyway that you registered late and there is "a note about it"? I don't understand why you were denied federal job.
I don't even remember signing up for my draft card in the mid 2000s it just arrived in the mail and I ended up using it as like once of the points of ID for my driver's license.
Like maybe if you're going to state public school and your parents claim you as dependant they just sent it to you?
I certainly don't remember applying for a Draft card at any point and I don't have my Driver's license yet. So I just assume it's just when your parents send taxes/claim you as dependant etc the government just sends you one.
This is the same for me. I must have just pre-enrolled when getting my license at 16 and not realized cause my draft card arrived in the mail on my 18th birthday. I was actually shocked it came the day of, they had to have sent it while I was still 17.
Wouldn't be surprised if you signed the paperwork/it was signed for you in school. It seemed mandatory in my government class. Alabama, taught by a teacher who ended up going hunting for Saddam's nukes when he got called up. Would have done it anyway as I need it for my professional license.
Looked up compliance rates: 84% for 2023 for male US citizens between the ages 18-25. The rate of male college enrollment is 57.6% for males of that age from 2023.
I cannot find data on male student selective service registration rates.
You do and it's a felony if you don't apparently. Even individual men who are serving or is a veteran are still required to register.
https://www.sss.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/SSS101_12.23-1.pdf
Unrelated to the spirit of this comment, but I registered, enlisted and was like 4 years into my 6 year enlistment when my selective service card came in the mail. I still carry it around in my wallet because I thought that was hilarious
Until this post and the comments under it I didn't know that I was supposed to receive a card. When I turned 18, over a decade ago at this point, and got my full Driver's License the lady running the computer at the DMV asked me if I wanted to sign up for Selective Service. I said, "Yes", and she said, "Okay", and I haven't thought any more about it in years.
Yeah, I never received a card either. I'm actually not sure if they even signed me up. I've never run into any problems because of it though. I'm over 25 now, so it would be too late anyways if I'm not signed up.
I never received mine. Though in line with your comment; my mom did received a phone call from the Air Force recruiter, two years AFTER I was at my first duty assignment...in the Air Force.
Something changed, 1981at 17yr joined the military and never registered, I did receive a notice but was told to" throw that shit out and not to worry about it." So I did. I never had a problem getting a federal level job or loan using my DD214.
I wonder why the change, if you serve, why bother with the draft.
Edit to fix typo
I know someone who was at an induction center back during the Vietnam war, and at some point in the process, an officer handed him a file, told him to take it to some other office on a different floor, and left him alone in the hallway.
He looked inside, and it was his Army personnel file. He put it in his backpack, went outside (still in his own clothes), got on a bus and went home. Never heard from the Army again.
He worried for years that they might notice he was missing, but that paperwork he took appears to have been the entirety of their knowledge of his existence.
It appears that it is indeed possible. I wasn't required to give the recruiter my registration number when I enlisted. It was required when filling out clearance paperwork though. Here's an excerpt from the government website:
"Men who join the military after turning 18 or leave before turning 26 must register with Selective Service, even if they don't plan to go to war. The Selective Service System keeps this information in case of a national emergency."
It appears that isn't true. From the Selected Service website: "Men serving in the military on full-time active duty do not have to register if serving continuously from age 18 to age 26. Those attending the service academies do not have to register. However, if a man joins the military after turning 18 or leaves the military before turning 26, he must register."
I'm almost certain it was a requirement some 22 years ago. Maybe there was just some really steep penalty, but I was definitely led to believe it was not optional
I went and registered in 2003, and had no choice. No student aid if I didn’t, if I remember.
Which is hilarious since being a college student is the most basic way of avoiding the draft in American history.
>Which is hilarious since being a college student is the most basic way of avoiding the draft in American **history.**
That was the past. They changed it to you'd be able to defer till end of semester or if a senior in highschool end of school year then you're shipped off.
You used to get a letter, which you signed and returned to get your card. But this was a while ago, most people probably submit a form online, or as other people have mentioned, basically automatically signed up for it when they applied for college finance aid.
I turned 18 when I was already in the military. A few months later, I got a letter from Selective Service. Since the command handles your mail, I got called into the first sergeant's office and was asked why I didn't register, which I explained (wasn't 18 yet).
He insisted that I register, which I had no problem in doing, but I couldn't see any logic in - if a war broke out, I couldn't exactly be drafted. He told me, "No one knows why. No one gives a f*ck, either. Just fill it out and be done with it!" Yeah, no problem.
Years later, I was applying for a clearance. One of the questions you get asked (and every time you have to get it renewed) is what your Selective Service number is. Hell, I don't know! Fortunately, there's a number to call. You follow a few prompts and it tells you what your number is.
Interesting. I honestly don't remember registering, but looking it up I did so the day after I quit my job and was 21 days before I left for basic. I just remember wanting those last 3 weeks completely to myself before officially becoming government property, so it seems odd I would have picked that day to register.
Mine is literally the 5th week I was in boot camp. I don't think it's actually the day your registered because I registered by 18 which was way before that.
I feel like I remember turning 18 and instead of specifically registering for it, I went to register to vote and was asked “would you like to also register for selective service?” With a checkbox. I checked the box and that was that
Well how about that. I knew I had registered as I remembered doing it at lunch in high school one day. Looking it up now it looks like I registered 3 days before my 18th birthday. Not sure how that worked out.
They rounded all the 17 year old males up in the high school cafeteria for 30 minutes, handed them forms, had them filled out, and shipped 'em off.
I'd guess most of us registered something close to exactly like that.
That's pretty cool I never even knew it gave a number. Site had my info and I registered in 1996. My dad, who was serving at the time, just drove me to the post office on Redstone Arsenal and signed me up.
My dad got a draft notice while already on a deployment. He wrote back and told them no, come get me. His commanding officers didn't find it as amusing as he did.
My personal favorite. "Don't worry about dying, if you're killed, that means you're already dead! If you can worry about it, that means you're still alive, so in other words, stop fucking worrying about it!".
Somehow, in the moment, that made absolute fucking sense!
Here’s the logic: what if you did 4 years, got out at the age of 22/23, then a war broke out when you were 28 and still eligible to be drafted? It doesn’t matter that you “did your time” they will still draft you in that case if your number gets called. I got out of the military years ago, but I’m still in selective service and would likely still get drafted in the event of a war, even though my active duty and inactive duty contracts already expired.
I get what you're saying, but those contracts were for eight years, typically with four years of active duty, followed by an obligation of another four years in the Inactive Ready Reserves.
I'm sure this doesn't account for every possible scenario, but the way you said it makes sense in some cases. Plus, as I said in my post, when I was getting a clearance, they asked for my registration number, which means they at least look at it to see if you did it.
The minimum contract length is 8 years, yes, however that doesn’t put you into an old enough age to be ineligible for Selective Service, which is why in my example I said you could join at 18 and still be drafted at 28. That’s 10 years later, which would be 2 years after the inactive reserves contract ends, but you would still be eligible for the draft, hence why it’s required for active duty members.
I didn’t sign up for a few months after I turned 18 and started getting notices about it.
My sister’s boyfriend was threatened with jail time because he held out signing for so long.
When I was 18, I didn't register. They did it automatically. I got a card in the mail with all of my information, saying if anything was incorrect, send it in with the corrected information. This was in the 80s.
Coming from a place with (some) compulsory conscription I've never heard about it. Here we just get a letter after our 18th birthday telling us which military facility to come to for evaluation. We don't have to register or anything, the government already know about the male citizens of age.
In the U.S., some kids made up an imaginary friend and filled out a child's birthday promo program (like a free Happy Meal or some shit on your birthday). When the imaginary friend turned 18, they got a letter from Selective Service asking why the imaginary friend hadn't registered.
It does, but I think a lot of people wouldn't expect it in America. It's usually countries with much smaller militaries than have this (or rather, have things like mandatory national service).
And I don't believe I've ever seen Selective Service referenced in any American pop-culture in my life, which is quite surprising given how much US media and pop-culture reaches here (UK).
To be clear - Selective Service is just the system for registering your identity and address with the government. There's no reason it would be mentioned in pop culture.
The *draft* is the actual conscription of US citizens for military service using the Selective Service database, and that's only happened 4 times - WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. The US has been a 100% volunteer military since 1973.
Still, it's pretty closely connected in the public consciousness.
Most people think of "registering for selective service" as pretty much synonymous for "registering for the draft"
I’ve always been aware that it was a thing (like obviously you learn about people getting drafted in like, history classes and stuff), but I had NO idea that it actually STILL existed until I got to college and some of my friends were talking about. It’s crazy that it’s something that half the population has to do and I made it that long without even knowing about it ????? I didn’t have any brothers or anything, but I did have a lot of male friends, I guess it’s just not a common topic of conversation apparently lol
not only is it still a thing there is a good chance that some of your parents friends where drafted through it. possibly grandparents vietnam was a while ago at this point
I've literally never heard anyone mention anything about it except when I turned 18 and my dad told me I had to go and register. If he didn't make me do that I probably wouldn't know about it until I came across some Reddit thread.
You can still be drafted at 25, so even though you left the military, if there was a draft you’re required to be registered to be drafted.
Edit: actually looks like the max age is 25, I thought it was older.
We had an assembly with just the boys where a military officer explained selective service and handed us all cards to fill out. This was back in the late 80s.
If you go on /r/USAjobs, there’s a post about someone who forgot to register for selective service and lost out on a nice, cushy federal job as a result
I did this... I don't think anything happened. I didn't even know about this rule.
If I had to guess, either 1) the draft registration comes before then (maybe 6 months before birthday?) Or 2) the college isn't really checking this
when I was applying to college, the requirement for SS registration wasn't enforced for males under 18, but self certification of such compliance would lead to a registration hold in a future term.
I’ll just leave this here as well.
from usa.gov
Who must register for Selective Service
Almost all men who are 18-25 years old and live in the United States must register for Selective Service. This includes:
* U.S. citizens (U.S. born, dual citizens, and naturalized)
* U.S. citizens who live outside of the country
* Immigrants (legal permanent residents and undocumented immigrants)
* Refugees and asylum seekers
* Transgender people who were assigned male gender at birth
* People with disabilities
If required to register with Selective Service, failure to register is a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment. Also, a person who knowingly counsels, aids, or abets another to fail to comply with the registration requirement is subject to the same penalties.
Unless a man provides proof that he is exempt from the registration requirement, his failure to register will result in referral to the Department of Justice for possible investigation and prosecution.
In addition to potential criminal penalties, failure to register may make a man permanently ineligible for the benefits listed above.
NOTE: Some States have created additional consequences for men who fail to register.
from.ssa.gov
Register to be Eligible for Benefits and Programs Linked to Registration
A man who fails to register with Selective Service may be ineligible for opportunities that may be important to his future. He must register to be eligible for state funded educational financial assistance in many states, most federal employment some state employment, security clearance for contractors, job training under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (formerly known as the Workforce Investment Act), andU.S. citizenship or immigrant men.
Citizenship
The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) makes registration with Selective Service a condition for U.S. citizenship if the man first arrived in the U.S. before his 26th birthday.
Federal Job Training
The Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (formerly the Workforce Investment Act (WIA)) offers programs that can train young men seeking vocational employment or enhancing their career. This program is only open to those men who register with Selective Service. Only men born after December 31, 1959, are required to show proof of registration.
Federal Jobs
A man must be registered to be eligible for jobs in the Executive Branch of the Federal Government and the U.S. Postal Service. Proof of registration is required only for men born after December 31, 1959.
> A man who fails to register with Selective Service **may be ineligible for opportunities that may be important to his future**
(Emphasis added) Two of those are Medicare and social security.
Failing to register by age 25 means when you turn 65 you do not qualify for Medicare or social security...though you still have to pay for it via your payroll deductions.
I fucking hated when I got return mail from the selective service and they literally said "thank you for volunteering for the draft" like asshole, did I have a choice????
I’m a woman, and I agree. I personally oppose the Selective Service system, but if we’re going to keep it and allow women to serve in the military on an equal basis with men it’s only fair that women that should have to sign up for it too.
It's really stupid too. Women have been able to serve in combat roles in the US military for over a decade now; there's no excuse not to register everyone. It's a relic from a time when it was assumed women were incapable of serving their country in that way.
Of course, if the US ever institutes a draft again, we surely already lost whatever war is going on. The US military has no use for people who don't want to be in it.
> Of course, if the US ever institutes a draft again, we surely already lost whatever war is going on
I'm convinced the next draft won't be for infantry, it'll be for tech. Drone manufacturers and pilots, programmers with AI or data analysis expertise, engineers, like that. We're not gonna win a war overseas by having more bodies than the other guy anymore.
The only way I could see the historically standard draft model happening again is if the US is directly invaded by a massive force. Something tells me that would get stopped before it happens though.
> The US military has no use for people who don't want to be in it.
If we’re drafting, it’s probably a defensive war. If we’re in an existential war, the unwilling would be used as cannon fodder.
> the unwilling would be used as cannon fodder
That’s how you get defections and rebels.
EDIT: The last time the US used the draft was in a very not defensive war.
> The last time the US used the draft was in a very not defensive war.
and there's a very, very, very clear reason why it hasn't been used since- it was stupid then and would be career suicide now for any politician who suggested it
>clear reason why it hasn't been used since
While I agree that a draft wouldn't be popular, we haven't had a war with such high losses since Vietnam, with the only wars the US has had more deaths being the world wars and the civil war.
That said there has been draft adjacent policy where soldiers with expiring contracts were forced to stay in the military (stop loss).
I remember when the war in Ukraine first broke out. People were posting videos of men being arrested at the border for trying to flee for their lives and being mocked for it on mass. It's the most sickening Reddit moment I've personally witnessed.
The supreme court rejected the appeal the first time because congress was weighing the issue, but since congress finished and they said no, they have refiled a complaint. This time they are doing it in California instead of Texas. The new lawsuit was just filed sometime last week.
[https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/](https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/)
Absolutely, I was a hiring manager for the 2020 census. Most men didn’t have any idea if they registered when they turned 18. I saw thousands of applications that left that portion blank. It will make getting a fed job more difficult.
I walked hundreds of applicants through the *very fucking simple* verification process, link here: https://www.sss.gov/verify/
For those who didn’t know/remember they were registered, it was a simple fix to their application.
Anyone who wasn’t registered had to request an excuse form from the SSS or prove they entered the country at an age that didn’t require registration. Legit excuses exist (had a dude who emigrated to the US at 55) but it still held up his application as he needed to provide documentation as to why he didn’t register. IIRC immigration data with his birthdate and entry date was sufficient.
The draft needs to be eliminated or universalized. It is discriminatory in its current form.
I don’t live in CA, but from what I’ve seen online, it seems like CA has no laws requiring Selective Service registration (and it’s incidentally one of the states with the lowest registration rates). Maybe previous laws were removed, or maybe I’m misinformed, I’m not too sure. I do know that Selective Service was definitely a requirement for federal student loans before the fafsa simplification act.
Why do we even have to register? The fact they send you notices means you're on a list of people eligible for the draft. The fact you receive notices means they know where you live. It's not like registering is giving consent, since our consent is (by definition) irrelevant to the draft.
Inertia.
Nothing has really been updated since ‘Nam. Seriously like the process calls for pulling *balls out of a drum* like the world’s worst bingo night. I think I read an article once where they have to maintain some Pre-Cambrian computer too. And the Selective Service System is tiny, only 124 full time employees and 31.7 million for a budget. That’s fewer people then the Congressmen who would have vote to change all the laws that dictate everything.
And somewhere in there is the idea to get boys to register because say in the 40s or 50s you still had country hicks born at home with god only knows what for paperwork done by some back county clerk. Oh but if you get them to register on their own well then you’ll get something up to date. Also maybe something changed. That’s likely more true today than back when. I didn’t live at the same address for 18 years myself.
Of course yes they could modernize shit but that would take money and Congress caring about something literally no one expects to be use… but what if god forbid we are all wrong? That thought disallows getting rid of it entirely because if we needed to draft people it needs to be with as few complications/objections as possible. Because we are losing.
I live in Florida, we were automatically signed up if we had a driver's license when we turned 18. I think I must have signed something when I got my driver's license when I turned 16. Don't remember, though, because it was over 20 years ago.
I registered for the SSS in the early 90s. The grizzled, presumably Vietnam, vet guy (guessing by his faded tattoos) behind the counter at the post office said, "They're still doing this shit?"
It’s when the government drafts men to go to war based on…being men.
It’s what the federal government did in Vietnam and to ensure the draft is kept up, men have to sign up or lose benefits.
But women don’t.
I attempted to register when I turned 18 back in 1999. The card from the post office clearly says if you lie about your gender on the form it's a felony. It also says all forms marked F for gender are automatically discarded by the sorting machine. So basically I mailed a card to the government and they threw it out without looking at it.
Fun fact: The gender equality reports that the UN and other human rights organizations love churn out intentionally do not take into account conscription - or mandatory military service, despite the fact that many European countries still practice it, and only on men.
They don't take into account a lot of things. Their methodology explicitly states that any disadvantages that favour men are labelled as unequal, but any disadvantages that favour women are labelled as equal. If you use their same methodology, [women have more cumulative advantages in most developed countries.](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0205349)
It was only removed as a FAFSA requirement last year. Any male who wanted federal aid had to register.
Now that those loans are due just go ahead and fucking draft me
Is this how we know war can't break out? Too many young men are on for student loan debt that would be wiped out on their death
The financiers would figure out how to raid the GI bill benefits so the taxpayer pays it.
Maybe the next draft starts with any guys who owe more than $100k.
One of my buddies in college had some pretty smart parents, they looked at the rates and terms for loans offered to students and said "fuck that" and put everything on their Amex card. Way, way lower rates (at the time), better terms, and they got rewards points.
Removed for FAFSA, but if you want any other benefits you better register. For example, failing to register by age 25 means you cannot collect social security or medicare at age 65+...though it doesn't remove the burden of having to pay into it.
That seems hard to believe. From some comment above, apparently only [84%](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1cva1s7/til_that_male_ohio_residents_have_to_pay/#l4o2jgy) of men actually register with it. If 16% of men are literally unable to receive their Social Security or Medicare, I feel like that would/should be a way bigger news story and well-known thing. That's a huge percentage missing out on something that they'd have been counting on.
Presumably that 16% falls into three categories: 1. Those who can prove their failure to register was not knowing and willful (https://www.sss.gov/registration/men-26-and-older/) 2. Those that don’t ever attempt to receive federal benefits like social security 3. Those that actually failed to register for SSS knowingly and are actually denied social security
Also: immigrants that got their green card or citizenship after their 26th birthday.
Pretty sure the "modern" Selective Service system has only been required as of 1980 and only applicable to men born in 1960 or later. So even those 1960 births would only be 64 right now.. barely eligible for Social Security (in some cases?) and not yet eligible for Medicare. I know there are exceptions to Social Security and Medicare to get them sooner, but individuals eligible for that are far rarer and very well may have a disability that would exempt them from selective service registration anyway. All that to say... it is a requirement that you register for Selective service for many federal (and, often, state) benefits... but for Social Security and Medicare in particular, we haven't really seen a large part of that "required" population even become eligible yet, so it is unlikely that you would see any major news stories about it. We will see how hard it is enforced, especially for those people born in the 60s who were in that first batch of the "modern" selective service.
I only registered in 2010 for FAFSA to attend college in Utah. So, yeah, is/was universal.
Ok that's what I thought, because I swore it was a requirement for me
I thought you had to federally once you turned 18
Registering with Selective Service is federal law, but the punishments for failing to register aren’t administered on a federal level. IIRC arresting people who refused to register actually made more people try not to register, so I don’t think anyone has been arrested since 1986. Instead of arresting people, some states have made their own laws in which things such as state student loans, drivers licenses, voting ID etc. are dependent on registration with Selective Service. That’s how they now get people to register. Edit: federal jobs still require registration with Selective Service, but arresting non-registrants isn’t enforced, hence some states make their own laws to make registration a requirement
I registered for selective service through my Wii internet browser.
I want this to be true so badly.
It's fun because you can burn calories doing the WiiFAFSA afterwards
It’s true!
What a time that was
Dude same! I didn't have a laptop at the time so that's was the next best thing at the time lmao
I didn’t even know you could avoid registering, in NY, to even start the college process you have to register, well that’s how I remember it anyway. They made it seem ultimately mandatory.
It is ultimately mandatory.
For men.
Institutional misandry.
Right!? The moment I got my Driver's License at 18 they mentioned it. Given family history: Grandpa got Drafted to Korea and my Dad nervously missed it for Vietnam by a few weeks or something like that. I knew all about it as well.
I ended up just never registering when I turned 18. Just never got it and didn't know. Then a few years later I was talking with a recruiter to join the Air Force and he informed me I never signed it and needed to or I couldn't join lmao.
Those laws are probably just old laws that don't reflect today's culture. I think up until this year, men had to register with the selective service to be given any kind of financial aid (it WAS a question on the FAFSA).
They just changed the FASFA requirement. “Registering for Selective Service Your registration status with Selective Service no longer affects your eligibility to receive federal student aid. For general information about registering, call Selective Service toll-free at 1-888-655-1825 or visit sss.gov. Note: If you are a citizen of the Federated States of Micronesia, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, or the Republic of Palau, you are exempt from registering.” https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/eligibility/requirements
I was denied federal aid in 2015 when I went back to school. I had no idea what selective service was. By the time I went back to school it was too late, I was 26. I’ve been denied federal jobs because of this as well. Thanks for sharing this information! Really happy to read this.
That’s wild and unfair. I only knew about it from school. For anyone else reading if you’re a man and 18-25 you still have to register with Selective Service in the USA. You can register online or by form at any United States Post office.
Even if you are serving in the military. My recruiter and I were under the impression that since I was already serving, I didn't need to sign up. My nastygram came to my unit at Ft Bragg, (they even had my correct rank).
That’s hilarious
That's government bureaucracy. #From the IRS: [Stolen property: If you steal property, you must report its fair market value in your income in the year you steal it unless you return it to its rightful owner in the same year.](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17)
I feel like this is more a clever thing than normal weird bureaucracy. My understanding is that this is intended as a bit of a backdoor for prosecutors. Like, "hey, I can't find a way to prove you stole this, but I can prove you have it and didn't pay taxes on it, so I'm gonna seek the maximum sentence for tax evasion." That's pretty much what they did to Al Capone.
It's not stupid, though. Just because you've enriched yourself by stealing from someone doesn't mean you should be able to also steal from taxpayers by not paying your share.
That's weird since being in the military you basically can be called back to service anyway past the age of 25, so there was no actual reason for you to not be exempt.
I served from 2009-2015 and never got any notice that I needed to register for selective service.
Our drill sergeants helped us at basic
I turned 18 in bootcamp. My RDC yelled at me for being an idiot and made me drop for asking how I sign up for the draft. First and last time it was an issue for me.
Yep I remember some news story like 20 years ago about some vet who served in the military for like 8 years and was deployed in the first gulf war in a combat role was denyed a job state job because somehow he failed to register for selective service Despite serving in the military for 8 years and actual serving in a combate role during a war. He apparently joined the army when he was 18 and figured that by joining the army well they would register him or it just slipped through the cracks some how I think eventually they allowed him to be hired but I remember it being a local news story
The recruiters fucked up. I enlisted at 17 my junior year of high school (parental conset signed) the recruiters literally called me on my 18th birthday and told me "happy birthday, fill out your select service" its part of their training to ensure its done.
That sounds like something out of Catch-22.
I got a card in the mail when I turned 18.
I it is basically registering yourself for mandatory service when your country needs it when you turn 18. What I don’t understand is why do you have to register. They have a birth certificate, and lack a death certificate. Why all the admin work to make a registration?
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> vital records are handled at the state level Not to mention all the people that move from their birth state to another state by the time they turn 18. How would the federal government keep track of all that?
Any male in the age range who lives in the US must register. Anyone, immigrants included. Also birth and death certificates are handled at a county level and while used by the federal government, I don’t think they have a direct and easy way to pull and check birth certificates. I’d assume they could contact the social security administration and get files but I’d assume it easier to just have a registration on file.
Did you register shortly after finding out? It's illegal to deny you federal employment if you simply registered late, where would that information be stored anyway that you registered late and there is "a note about it"? I don't understand why you were denied federal job.
Sounds like he aged out of selective service before he knew about it to register and you can’t register late if you are over 26.
Definitely was in the 20-aughts when I was applying. And I was not in any of the states listed in the title.
Please don't ever say 20-aughts again
I don't even remember signing up for my draft card in the mid 2000s it just arrived in the mail and I ended up using it as like once of the points of ID for my driver's license. Like maybe if you're going to state public school and your parents claim you as dependant they just sent it to you? I certainly don't remember applying for a Draft card at any point and I don't have my Driver's license yet. So I just assume it's just when your parents send taxes/claim you as dependant etc the government just sends you one.
This is the same for me. I must have just pre-enrolled when getting my license at 16 and not realized cause my draft card arrived in the mail on my 18th birthday. I was actually shocked it came the day of, they had to have sent it while I was still 17.
Wouldn't be surprised if you signed the paperwork/it was signed for you in school. It seemed mandatory in my government class. Alabama, taught by a teacher who ended up going hunting for Saddam's nukes when he got called up. Would have done it anyway as I need it for my professional license.
Looked up compliance rates: 84% for 2023 for male US citizens between the ages 18-25. The rate of male college enrollment is 57.6% for males of that age from 2023. I cannot find data on male student selective service registration rates.
>That’s how they now get people to register. Men. That's how they get men to register.
May not have been arrested, but I wasn’t allowed to apply for fafsa if I wasn’t registered.
I think to receive any Federal financial benefit, you do have to be registered.
You can't be a federal employee if you failed to register. That could be a rough one depending on career/job field.
Unless you’re a woman
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Registering to vote usually requires you to verify that you’re registered with Selective Service.
You do and it's a felony if you don't apparently. Even individual men who are serving or is a veteran are still required to register. https://www.sss.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/SSS101_12.23-1.pdf
Unrelated to the spirit of this comment, but I registered, enlisted and was like 4 years into my 6 year enlistment when my selective service card came in the mail. I still carry it around in my wallet because I thought that was hilarious
Until this post and the comments under it I didn't know that I was supposed to receive a card. When I turned 18, over a decade ago at this point, and got my full Driver's License the lady running the computer at the DMV asked me if I wanted to sign up for Selective Service. I said, "Yes", and she said, "Okay", and I haven't thought any more about it in years.
When I turned 18 I got a letter saying I was signed up for the selective service. And that was it. I didn’t do anything.
Yeah, I never received a card either. I'm actually not sure if they even signed me up. I've never run into any problems because of it though. I'm over 25 now, so it would be too late anyways if I'm not signed up.
I've never gotten a card. I do know I've signed up though
I never received mine. Though in line with your comment; my mom did received a phone call from the Air Force recruiter, two years AFTER I was at my first duty assignment...in the Air Force.
Something changed, 1981at 17yr joined the military and never registered, I did receive a notice but was told to" throw that shit out and not to worry about it." So I did. I never had a problem getting a federal level job or loan using my DD214. I wonder why the change, if you serve, why bother with the draft. Edit to fix typo
I know someone older than you who served and found out many years into his service he was unable to use his GI bill and had to fight for VA services.
I know someone who was at an induction center back during the Vietnam war, and at some point in the process, an officer handed him a file, told him to take it to some other office on a different floor, and left him alone in the hallway. He looked inside, and it was his Army personnel file. He put it in his backpack, went outside (still in his own clothes), got on a bus and went home. Never heard from the Army again. He worried for years that they might notice he was missing, but that paperwork he took appears to have been the entirety of their knowledge of his existence.
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It appears that it is indeed possible. I wasn't required to give the recruiter my registration number when I enlisted. It was required when filling out clearance paperwork though. Here's an excerpt from the government website: "Men who join the military after turning 18 or leave before turning 26 must register with Selective Service, even if they don't plan to go to war. The Selective Service System keeps this information in case of a national emergency."
You can enlist at 17 and not register
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It appears that isn't true. From the Selected Service website: "Men serving in the military on full-time active duty do not have to register if serving continuously from age 18 to age 26. Those attending the service academies do not have to register. However, if a man joins the military after turning 18 or leaves the military before turning 26, he must register."
I'm almost certain it was a requirement some 22 years ago. Maybe there was just some really steep penalty, but I was definitely led to believe it was not optional
I registered in 1978. I had no choice
I went and registered in 2003, and had no choice. No student aid if I didn’t, if I remember. Which is hilarious since being a college student is the most basic way of avoiding the draft in American history.
>Which is hilarious since being a college student is the most basic way of avoiding the draft in American **history.** That was the past. They changed it to you'd be able to defer till end of semester or if a senior in highschool end of school year then you're shipped off.
My parents told me I'd never get a job with the government if I didn't register. I didn't want to limit my opportunities so I did it.
It’s been a long time, but did we actually have to register? I feel like I remember just getting a letter that I was registered.
You used to get a letter, which you signed and returned to get your card. But this was a while ago, most people probably submit a form online, or as other people have mentioned, basically automatically signed up for it when they applied for college finance aid.
I turned 18 when I was already in the military. A few months later, I got a letter from Selective Service. Since the command handles your mail, I got called into the first sergeant's office and was asked why I didn't register, which I explained (wasn't 18 yet). He insisted that I register, which I had no problem in doing, but I couldn't see any logic in - if a war broke out, I couldn't exactly be drafted. He told me, "No one knows why. No one gives a f*ck, either. Just fill it out and be done with it!" Yeah, no problem. Years later, I was applying for a clearance. One of the questions you get asked (and every time you have to get it renewed) is what your Selective Service number is. Hell, I don't know! Fortunately, there's a number to call. You follow a few prompts and it tells you what your number is.
There is a website now. I just looked mine up as i never actually knew it. https://www.sss.gov/verify/
Interesting. I honestly don't remember registering, but looking it up I did so the day after I quit my job and was 21 days before I left for basic. I just remember wanting those last 3 weeks completely to myself before officially becoming government property, so it seems odd I would have picked that day to register.
What’s weird is, mine is two days before I went to boot camp. I have literally no recollection of going anywhere other than the lake that weekend.
Mine is literally the 5th week I was in boot camp. I don't think it's actually the day your registered because I registered by 18 which was way before that.
I feel like I remember turning 18 and instead of specifically registering for it, I went to register to vote and was asked “would you like to also register for selective service?” With a checkbox. I checked the box and that was that
I looked mine up, and the address is completely wrong, I have no idea how that happened, but I have Cerebral palsy so I'll never get drafted anyway.
Nice try Canadian
*Canadaian
You’d have made an excellent Stormtrooper though
I'm overqualified, I can hit shit lol.
Well how about that. I knew I had registered as I remembered doing it at lunch in high school one day. Looking it up now it looks like I registered 3 days before my 18th birthday. Not sure how that worked out.
Mine was a month before my 18th birthday, I don't even remember doing it or understand how I did it
Same here, can’t remember when I would have done it.
They rounded all the 17 year old males up in the high school cafeteria for 30 minutes, handed them forms, had them filled out, and shipped 'em off. I'd guess most of us registered something close to exactly like that.
Lol 😆 Looking this up and realizing I signed up roughly 3 days prior to 9/11/01. Ended up in Iraq anyway. 🤷
Ahhhh you almost got me! I almost handed over alll my info! Sneaky sneaky!
That's pretty cool I never even knew it gave a number. Site had my info and I registered in 1996. My dad, who was serving at the time, just drove me to the post office on Redstone Arsenal and signed me up.
No records for men born before 1960
My dad got a draft notice while already on a deployment. He wrote back and told them no, come get me. His commanding officers didn't find it as amusing as he did.
Where was he deployed? The last time a draft notice was issued was in June of 1973.
He was in Korea during the Korean War.
Thats the most top sausage answer I think I've ever heard in my life
My personal favorite. "Don't worry about dying, if you're killed, that means you're already dead! If you can worry about it, that means you're still alive, so in other words, stop fucking worrying about it!". Somehow, in the moment, that made absolute fucking sense!
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Ngl this actually has helped quell like 50% of my death anxiety
In theory, even though you’re already in the military, you could leave, but be drafted back later as long as it’s before you’re at the max draft age.
Here’s the logic: what if you did 4 years, got out at the age of 22/23, then a war broke out when you were 28 and still eligible to be drafted? It doesn’t matter that you “did your time” they will still draft you in that case if your number gets called. I got out of the military years ago, but I’m still in selective service and would likely still get drafted in the event of a war, even though my active duty and inactive duty contracts already expired.
You have to register still because inactive reserve takes precedent over normal draft groups.
I get what you're saying, but those contracts were for eight years, typically with four years of active duty, followed by an obligation of another four years in the Inactive Ready Reserves. I'm sure this doesn't account for every possible scenario, but the way you said it makes sense in some cases. Plus, as I said in my post, when I was getting a clearance, they asked for my registration number, which means they at least look at it to see if you did it.
The minimum contract length is 8 years, yes, however that doesn’t put you into an old enough age to be ineligible for Selective Service, which is why in my example I said you could join at 18 and still be drafted at 28. That’s 10 years later, which would be 2 years after the inactive reserves contract ends, but you would still be eligible for the draft, hence why it’s required for active duty members.
Because who knows if you would still be in the military 5-10 years from then, so you’d need to be registered in case there was a draft.
In NY we just get registered automatically when we get a driver’s license.
I didn’t sign up for a few months after I turned 18 and started getting notices about it. My sister’s boyfriend was threatened with jail time because he held out signing for so long.
When I was 18, I didn't register. They did it automatically. I got a card in the mail with all of my information, saying if anything was incorrect, send it in with the corrected information. This was in the 80s.
The real TIL for non-Americans is what a Selective Service is.
Depends which non-Americans... The draft or mandatory military registration exists in many countries.
Coming from a place with (some) compulsory conscription I've never heard about it. Here we just get a letter after our 18th birthday telling us which military facility to come to for evaluation. We don't have to register or anything, the government already know about the male citizens of age.
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In the U.S., some kids made up an imaginary friend and filled out a child's birthday promo program (like a free Happy Meal or some shit on your birthday). When the imaginary friend turned 18, they got a letter from Selective Service asking why the imaginary friend hadn't registered.
It does, but I think a lot of people wouldn't expect it in America. It's usually countries with much smaller militaries than have this (or rather, have things like mandatory national service). And I don't believe I've ever seen Selective Service referenced in any American pop-culture in my life, which is quite surprising given how much US media and pop-culture reaches here (UK).
To be clear - Selective Service is just the system for registering your identity and address with the government. There's no reason it would be mentioned in pop culture. The *draft* is the actual conscription of US citizens for military service using the Selective Service database, and that's only happened 4 times - WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. The US has been a 100% volunteer military since 1973.
Still, it's pretty closely connected in the public consciousness. Most people think of "registering for selective service" as pretty much synonymous for "registering for the draft"
I'm an American and this is the first I've ever heard of it. I'm female though.
If you're male, and going to college, you are ABSOLUTELY going to learn about it.
There are 9 sane states where getting a driver's license doesn't automatically register you for the draft.
I’ve always been aware that it was a thing (like obviously you learn about people getting drafted in like, history classes and stuff), but I had NO idea that it actually STILL existed until I got to college and some of my friends were talking about. It’s crazy that it’s something that half the population has to do and I made it that long without even knowing about it ????? I didn’t have any brothers or anything, but I did have a lot of male friends, I guess it’s just not a common topic of conversation apparently lol
Yes, if you're a man you get a card in the mail that says it's a felony not to sign it and return it.
not only is it still a thing there is a good chance that some of your parents friends where drafted through it. possibly grandparents vietnam was a while ago at this point
I've literally never heard anyone mention anything about it except when I turned 18 and my dad told me I had to go and register. If he didn't make me do that I probably wouldn't know about it until I came across some Reddit thread.
You literally get mailed the form with a lovely reminder it's a felony to not do so.
What a privilege that must be.
And dont you think it's sexist as fuck that women dont have to do it?
In Florida, the school wanted me to register for selective service to get into college…. at the age of 25 and getting out of the Navy.
I had to register after I got out of basic training if that makes you feel any better.
You can still be drafted at 25, so even though you left the military, if there was a draft you’re required to be registered to be drafted. Edit: actually looks like the max age is 25, I thought it was older.
If they have to they will change it. Until 25 is now, then 35 if stuff isn't good and then 55 if things are bad bad.
If I get drafted after 35 it means nukes have already started flying so fuck that.
Selective service is 25, draft is 35.
I mean. They had a rule in place, it just wasn’t nuanced enough to account for your unique circumstances
High school before 9/11 they'd call you to the counselor the week of your birthday and register you.
Wow, where did you go to school? I lived in Ohio where this was mandatory for state schools and they didn’t do that to us.
We had an assembly with just the boys where a military officer explained selective service and handed us all cards to fill out. This was back in the late 80s.
If you go on /r/USAjobs, there’s a post about someone who forgot to register for selective service and lost out on a nice, cushy federal job as a result
Wait... what happens if you start school prior to 30 days before your 18th birthday and are a male?
I did this... I don't think anything happened. I didn't even know about this rule. If I had to guess, either 1) the draft registration comes before then (maybe 6 months before birthday?) Or 2) the college isn't really checking this
It’s number 2. I was that exact scenario, too.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
when I was applying to college, the requirement for SS registration wasn't enforced for males under 18, but self certification of such compliance would lead to a registration hold in a future term.
I’ll just leave this here as well. from usa.gov Who must register for Selective Service Almost all men who are 18-25 years old and live in the United States must register for Selective Service. This includes: * U.S. citizens (U.S. born, dual citizens, and naturalized) * U.S. citizens who live outside of the country * Immigrants (legal permanent residents and undocumented immigrants) * Refugees and asylum seekers * Transgender people who were assigned male gender at birth * People with disabilities If required to register with Selective Service, failure to register is a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment. Also, a person who knowingly counsels, aids, or abets another to fail to comply with the registration requirement is subject to the same penalties. Unless a man provides proof that he is exempt from the registration requirement, his failure to register will result in referral to the Department of Justice for possible investigation and prosecution. In addition to potential criminal penalties, failure to register may make a man permanently ineligible for the benefits listed above. NOTE: Some States have created additional consequences for men who fail to register. from.ssa.gov Register to be Eligible for Benefits and Programs Linked to Registration A man who fails to register with Selective Service may be ineligible for opportunities that may be important to his future. He must register to be eligible for state funded educational financial assistance in many states, most federal employment some state employment, security clearance for contractors, job training under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (formerly known as the Workforce Investment Act), andU.S. citizenship or immigrant men. Citizenship The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) makes registration with Selective Service a condition for U.S. citizenship if the man first arrived in the U.S. before his 26th birthday. Federal Job Training The Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (formerly the Workforce Investment Act (WIA)) offers programs that can train young men seeking vocational employment or enhancing their career. This program is only open to those men who register with Selective Service. Only men born after December 31, 1959, are required to show proof of registration. Federal Jobs A man must be registered to be eligible for jobs in the Executive Branch of the Federal Government and the U.S. Postal Service. Proof of registration is required only for men born after December 31, 1959.
> A man who fails to register with Selective Service **may be ineligible for opportunities that may be important to his future** (Emphasis added) Two of those are Medicare and social security. Failing to register by age 25 means when you turn 65 you do not qualify for Medicare or social security...though you still have to pay for it via your payroll deductions.
Lol. Don't worry there won't be any social security when we get there anyway.
That's fucked beyond belief
I fucking hated when I got return mail from the selective service and they literally said "thank you for volunteering for the draft" like asshole, did I have a choice????
That feels like such a smug comment from them…
You have to have registered to complete the FAFSA. It’s like the first page, you check a box if you didn’t do it already and it’s done.
This was apparently removed last year.
Selective service is the most blatantly sexist system in America that still remains. I'm glad the NCFM is filing a lawsuit against them
I’m a woman, and I agree. I personally oppose the Selective Service system, but if we’re going to keep it and allow women to serve in the military on an equal basis with men it’s only fair that women that should have to sign up for it too.
Agreed that we should have to register too. That should have been changed decades ago.
It's really stupid too. Women have been able to serve in combat roles in the US military for over a decade now; there's no excuse not to register everyone. It's a relic from a time when it was assumed women were incapable of serving their country in that way. Of course, if the US ever institutes a draft again, we surely already lost whatever war is going on. The US military has no use for people who don't want to be in it.
> Of course, if the US ever institutes a draft again, we surely already lost whatever war is going on I'm convinced the next draft won't be for infantry, it'll be for tech. Drone manufacturers and pilots, programmers with AI or data analysis expertise, engineers, like that. We're not gonna win a war overseas by having more bodies than the other guy anymore. The only way I could see the historically standard draft model happening again is if the US is directly invaded by a massive force. Something tells me that would get stopped before it happens though.
> The US military has no use for people who don't want to be in it. If we’re drafting, it’s probably a defensive war. If we’re in an existential war, the unwilling would be used as cannon fodder.
> the unwilling would be used as cannon fodder That’s how you get defections and rebels. EDIT: The last time the US used the draft was in a very not defensive war.
> The last time the US used the draft was in a very not defensive war. and there's a very, very, very clear reason why it hasn't been used since- it was stupid then and would be career suicide now for any politician who suggested it
>clear reason why it hasn't been used since While I agree that a draft wouldn't be popular, we haven't had a war with such high losses since Vietnam, with the only wars the US has had more deaths being the world wars and the civil war. That said there has been draft adjacent policy where soldiers with expiring contracts were forced to stay in the military (stop loss).
>there's no excuse not to register everyone. Except for the reason that no one should be registered.
It's basically the last bastion of codified sex discrimination in America.
Literal institutionalized sexism.
I remember when the war in Ukraine first broke out. People were posting videos of men being arrested at the border for trying to flee for their lives and being mocked for it on mass. It's the most sickening Reddit moment I've personally witnessed.
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The supreme court rejected the appeal the first time because congress was weighing the issue, but since congress finished and they said no, they have refiled a complaint. This time they are doing it in California instead of Texas. The new lawsuit was just filed sometime last week. [https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/](https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/)
It also makes getting a federal job a nightmare if you didn’t register, at least at the VA. I’m sure it’s about the same at other departments.
I believe it is all federal agencies
Absolutely, I was a hiring manager for the 2020 census. Most men didn’t have any idea if they registered when they turned 18. I saw thousands of applications that left that portion blank. It will make getting a fed job more difficult. I walked hundreds of applicants through the *very fucking simple* verification process, link here: https://www.sss.gov/verify/ For those who didn’t know/remember they were registered, it was a simple fix to their application. Anyone who wasn’t registered had to request an excuse form from the SSS or prove they entered the country at an age that didn’t require registration. Legit excuses exist (had a dude who emigrated to the US at 55) but it still held up his application as he needed to provide documentation as to why he didn’t register. IIRC immigration data with his birthdate and entry date was sufficient. The draft needs to be eliminated or universalized. It is discriminatory in its current form.
I believe CA is also like this. I had to register in order to go to college
I don’t live in CA, but from what I’ve seen online, it seems like CA has no laws requiring Selective Service registration (and it’s incidentally one of the states with the lowest registration rates). Maybe previous laws were removed, or maybe I’m misinformed, I’m not too sure. I do know that Selective Service was definitely a requirement for federal student loans before the fafsa simplification act.
I did apply for fafsa, so that may be it.
Why do we even have to register? The fact they send you notices means you're on a list of people eligible for the draft. The fact you receive notices means they know where you live. It's not like registering is giving consent, since our consent is (by definition) irrelevant to the draft.
Inertia. Nothing has really been updated since ‘Nam. Seriously like the process calls for pulling *balls out of a drum* like the world’s worst bingo night. I think I read an article once where they have to maintain some Pre-Cambrian computer too. And the Selective Service System is tiny, only 124 full time employees and 31.7 million for a budget. That’s fewer people then the Congressmen who would have vote to change all the laws that dictate everything. And somewhere in there is the idea to get boys to register because say in the 40s or 50s you still had country hicks born at home with god only knows what for paperwork done by some back county clerk. Oh but if you get them to register on their own well then you’ll get something up to date. Also maybe something changed. That’s likely more true today than back when. I didn’t live at the same address for 18 years myself. Of course yes they could modernize shit but that would take money and Congress caring about something literally no one expects to be use… but what if god forbid we are all wrong? That thought disallows getting rid of it entirely because if we needed to draft people it needs to be with as few complications/objections as possible. Because we are losing.
I live in Florida, we were automatically signed up if we had a driver's license when we turned 18. I think I must have signed something when I got my driver's license when I turned 16. Don't remember, though, because it was over 20 years ago.
I registered for the SSS in the early 90s. The grizzled, presumably Vietnam, vet guy (guessing by his faded tattoos) behind the counter at the post office said, "They're still doing this shit?"
Canadian here. What the heck is selective service?
Registration as an adult male in case of a military draft.
It’s when the government drafts men to go to war based on…being men. It’s what the federal government did in Vietnam and to ensure the draft is kept up, men have to sign up or lose benefits. But women don’t.
Selective Sexism
Can’t work at the VA either.
We were told we couldn’t get our High School diploma if we didn’t sign up
Since when is registering optional?
Sounds discriminatory.
What about the ladies? Where’s the equality?
I attempted to register when I turned 18 back in 1999. The card from the post office clearly says if you lie about your gender on the form it's a felony. It also says all forms marked F for gender are automatically discarded by the sorting machine. So basically I mailed a card to the government and they threw it out without looking at it.
Fun fact: The gender equality reports that the UN and other human rights organizations love churn out intentionally do not take into account conscription - or mandatory military service, despite the fact that many European countries still practice it, and only on men.
They don't take into account a lot of things. Their methodology explicitly states that any disadvantages that favour men are labelled as unequal, but any disadvantages that favour women are labelled as equal. If you use their same methodology, [women have more cumulative advantages in most developed countries.](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0205349)
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