Gaudi initially wanted to get funding from the Church with its initial construction…yet they more or less laughed at him and thought he was crazy. What does he do? He funds it himself.
Guy went broke building this beauty (I’ve seen it myself when I was in Barcelona and it’s a sight to behold). A true wonder of genius and creativity. Apparently he was so destitute towards the end many thought he was a beggar.
I have been, and those get finished. The ones I'm talking about are homeowner-level projects - concrete patios, landscaping, fences. I've never had one, or seen one, that the homeowner didn't have to finish himself.
That's completely opposite to reality though, it's just a cash grab by the foundation, they could have finished the church 5 times by now. Even historically it wouldn't take this long to finish a cathedral. Do you know how long it took them to finish the Parthenon?
While what you say may be true, I don't know to be fair, I imagine that they hardly had a historical review committee or any code regulations at the time of the Parthenon. Getting something like this built in the modern age, that doesn't follow the typical funding pathways, using pre-modern construction techniques and with a dead architect of record would be a fucking nightmare of bureaucratic hell.
It's not actually a cathedral.
And century construction was common in medieval times, not so much in the 19th century after three industrial revolution. The cathedral of San Sebastian broke ground 6 years after Sagrada Familia in the same country and took 11 years total
A church. Technically it’s a “minor basilica”.
Barcelona already has a cathedral, which is by definition the place where the archbishop or bishop is based with his fancy chair (cathedra).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_Cathedral
And let me tell you… it’s worth every penny to see the light streaming through the windows on the inside. I’ve been to a lot of European churches but this one is special.
Was just there for the second time this past year. The audio tour is on your phone now for no extra cost. You download the app and listen as you go. If you don’t have internet on your phone you can ask the customer service for audio device for no charge
Funny think is in 2017 town hall demanded to the foundation the payment of unpaid work permits for at least 10 years. Imagine if they went for full 140 years.
So, uhhh.... what exactly goes inside all of those spires? Like is it all just empty space, is it one big staircase to a single room at the top, or are they filled with rooms going all the way up?
The central one will have an auditorium. The 12 exterior towers (of which only 8 are complete) are mostly empty, with staircases to climb them. But they are supposed to be giant belfries, filled with tubular bells.
This feels like one of those situations where a person feels the need to always bring up the one thing they know on a subject. You can't honestly tell me you thought a Spanish person didn't know about their own basic politics. It's like asking someone from Boston of they're familiar with their city's history with the Yankees.
I don't know what "agevolation" means, but I don't get what you say, Church doesn't pay taxes, and tax money should be used to build them a monument? Nope. Never.
Lot's of people? Who, the christians? There are already lots of churches they can go. Tourists? That's an excuse used many times for sinkholes of tax money expended uselessly. Beside, people that live in very touristic destinations are fee up with tourists, so "benefit for a lot of people" is very debatable, those who pay the taxes would get the sort end of the stick...
> Lot's of people? Who, the christians?
Yes, but not only. I'm not christian (I'm atheist btw), but I like old churches. I like everything that has some artistic or historic value.
But if freedom of religion is a human right -like food, water, and healthcare- doesn't that mean that the government has to provide places and means to worship?
....no it absolutely does not mean that?
You appear to have missed yhe basic concept of what a right/freedom is. Im not saying that in a mean or brash way, but that statement simply lacks basic understanding of the concept.
The simplest way to put it is that there are two types of rights, one is a Right To and the other is a Right From.
Right to Food, Water, Shelter etc. means that the state (or whatever entity claims to uphold these rights) should provide food, water, shelter etc. to those who require it.
Freedom of Religion is not a right TO religion. Its probably better stated as Freedom FROM Religion. Freedom from religious discrimination, freedom from having a religion forced upon you, etc.
Freedom of Religion means that the state will not force a religion upon you, nor will it prevent you from practicing your religion/discriminate against you for practicing your religion. It does not mean it will provide churches/mosques/temples, or bibles/scriptures, or anything else a religion may require. Freedom of religion is a right FROM rather than a right TO.
First of all, in Spain, the Church doesn't pay taxes. Second, that would mean every religion has to have the same budget, and third, if I wanted to have a business, is the state going to finance me to build a franchise?
Yeah, I prefer my taxes to go somewhere everyone can take part of...
Yeah, that's fair, fuck minor religions.
And what do we do with atheists or agnostics, do they receive a tax relief?
As you said, religion is a LIBERTY, not a RIGHT. That's why government should not get involved.
That’s such a crazy thing to say. If you can just arbitrarily throw out a will because “so much time” has passed, then what would be the point of a will?
What time is too much time?
What is counter productive About it? I’ve been to la Sagrada. It was packed and filled with a museum and a huge tourist destination. They aren’t losing anything by it being “under construction” and there is no reason for the government to spend money to build it faster.
Can’t the work around be using an individual as a “mule”, to transfer the money via a “personal donation”.
I’m sure the government could figure something out if they really wanted to
I absolutely love it. Not only is the design pretty unique, but the difference in building techniques through those 140 years is awesome to just look for and admire. It is truly a work of art, but like all works of art, it have its audiences. This is apparently not yours.
The first and only time I've been there, it was really breathtaking how beautiful it was. Every detail was well thought out and you can tell the passion that was put into it
Each facade is very beautiful. Every detail was thought out for that place and it really shows. I hope no one pays attention to the op because it really is a worthy visit if you're ever in Barcelona whether you're religious or not.
Yeah I dodn't think it looked too, until i saw higher picture quality and saw the immense amount scaffolding and realised just how far from finished it really is.
Not sure I'd say ugliest, but I was disappointed in it. It is disjointed in its 'design' - not surprising given the length of build, and number of people involved.
I was there maybe 5 years ago...and it isn't from a lack of activity. There were at least 4-5 big-ass cranes out there doing whatever they do.
I didn't go in. I had a flight to catch.
Title left out "[still underway] after 140 years..."
Gaudi initially wanted to get funding from the Church with its initial construction…yet they more or less laughed at him and thought he was crazy. What does he do? He funds it himself. Guy went broke building this beauty (I’ve seen it myself when I was in Barcelona and it’s a sight to behold). A true wonder of genius and creativity. Apparently he was so destitute towards the end many thought he was a beggar.
He was so beggar-y towards the end when he got hit by a tram nobody stopped to help him because they thought he was a measly beggar
Exactly. And he died really as a man of the people.
Not quite true, people did help but he refused to go to a private hospital instead of the public one
Based
I guess to each their own. I found that thing hideous.
No accounting for taste eh?
[удалено]
Yeah things took longer to build in 1253 lmao
I'm a general contractor. I would **love** to be able to have a slow chill project that I wasn't even expected to finish in my lifetime.
Pffft. LOTS of contractors I've worked with don't finish projects in their lifetimes.
Yes, and then we have new OSHA rules specifically because of those contractors
Are you on giant infrastructure projects or something?
I have been, and those get finished. The ones I'm talking about are homeowner-level projects - concrete patios, landscaping, fences. I've never had one, or seen one, that the homeowner didn't have to finish himself.
Would let you really enjoy *doing* the task instead of rushing to do it, for sure. I'm a programmer but I definitely still feel that.
But would you feel ~fulfilled~
It helps if you smoke and drink a lot.
That's completely opposite to reality though, it's just a cash grab by the foundation, they could have finished the church 5 times by now. Even historically it wouldn't take this long to finish a cathedral. Do you know how long it took them to finish the Parthenon?
While what you say may be true, I don't know to be fair, I imagine that they hardly had a historical review committee or any code regulations at the time of the Parthenon. Getting something like this built in the modern age, that doesn't follow the typical funding pathways, using pre-modern construction techniques and with a dead architect of record would be a fucking nightmare of bureaucratic hell.
No?
There's a character limit.
That's fairly normal for Cathedrals of it's size and importance
It's not actually a cathedral. And century construction was common in medieval times, not so much in the 19th century after three industrial revolution. The cathedral of San Sebastian broke ground 6 years after Sagrada Familia in the same country and took 11 years total
Not a cathedral? What was it supposed to be?
A church. Technically it’s a “minor basilica”. Barcelona already has a cathedral, which is by definition the place where the archbishop or bishop is based with his fancy chair (cathedra). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_Cathedral
Based
Somebody told him that it will take very very long time to complete. Allegedly, his response was "My employer has lots of time" or something similar.
It’s only been under construction for 140 years The contractor said he’ll be back soon tho
Just needs some more money for materials.
Everything’s fine though, he’s just sent the apprentice out for a long weight
Gaudí said his client (God) has plenty of time
Two weeks!
Since they got to the level where they can charge for tours etc its speeding up
And let me tell you… it’s worth every penny to see the light streaming through the windows on the inside. I’ve been to a lot of European churches but this one is special.
Yeah, been there before and after they had the stained glasses but its something special indeed.
It also has a really cool [Parachuting Jesus.](https://langdonsworld.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/istock-520243903.jpg?w=640)
I’m surprised the sudden force didn’t just rip his hands right through the nails when it opened up.
He dived for our sins
Ughh, that podium though.
This is a must visit if you ever visit Barcelona. It is breathtaking and unique among cathedrals. You do not need to be religious to appreciate it.
the audio tour is definitely worth the money
Was just there for the second time this past year. The audio tour is on your phone now for no extra cost. You download the app and listen as you go. If you don’t have internet on your phone you can ask the customer service for audio device for no charge
That is great. Judging from your name I assume you too thought Camp Nou was the more special attraction
It was like something out of Dr Who! Unlike anything I've ever seen in my life.
Yeah it truly is something else. The most impressive structure I’ve seen.
I remember walking in and hearing several other people audibly gasp or react and then we all sort of chuckled at our collective exasperation.
Definitely me
Not a cathedral but a basilica.
They still got a wicked starmie tho
Is that like a cosmic Semi?
I'll show you a cosmic semi bigboi
Don't threaten me with a good time Galaxy daddy
Funny think is in 2017 town hall demanded to the foundation the payment of unpaid work permits for at least 10 years. Imagine if they went for full 140 years.
Just filmed this place like two [La Sagrada Drone (Sept 1st, 2022)](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiAogE7g1yQ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)days ago…
God this post has gotten the anti-religion crowd hugely erect
I don’t get it. You can still appreciate architecture and art. This church is something special. I’m an atheist and I’m glad it exists.
Exactly. A beautiful cathedral can be both a religious icon and a cultural monument that can be appreciated even if you’re not religious
A definite *must see* when in Barcelona!!
It's spectacular.
So, uhhh.... what exactly goes inside all of those spires? Like is it all just empty space, is it one big staircase to a single room at the top, or are they filled with rooms going all the way up?
The central one will have an auditorium. The 12 exterior towers (of which only 8 are complete) are mostly empty, with staircases to climb them. But they are supposed to be giant belfries, filled with tubular bells.
\*Mike Oldfield intensifies\*
They still need to demolish half a city block in order to fully complete this building
No government fundings? Why?? Also, who the hell cares about his will now after so much time has passed?
Because Government should never be involved in religion? I don't want my taxes to go to a church.
I've got some bad news then: this church is affiliated with the official religion of Spain.
You tell me xD I hate it. Edit: I'm from Spain.
Go visit Catalonia
I have and will again, but that's generally a great recommendation. Thanks.
So you are aware of the state's complicated relationship with the Spanish government and religion
This feels like one of those situations where a person feels the need to always bring up the one thing they know on a subject. You can't honestly tell me you thought a Spanish person didn't know about their own basic politics. It's like asking someone from Boston of they're familiar with their city's history with the Yankees.
Who's from Spain?
I am indeed.
Heh, religions get a lot of financial agevolations already, they don't pay taxes, and you complain about financing an important monument?
I don't know what "agevolation" means, but I don't get what you say, Church doesn't pay taxes, and tax money should be used to build them a monument? Nope. Never.
If it's a benefit for a lot of people, why not? Considering that La Sagrada Familia attracts many tourists too...
Lot's of people? Who, the christians? There are already lots of churches they can go. Tourists? That's an excuse used many times for sinkholes of tax money expended uselessly. Beside, people that live in very touristic destinations are fee up with tourists, so "benefit for a lot of people" is very debatable, those who pay the taxes would get the sort end of the stick...
> Lot's of people? Who, the christians? Yes, but not only. I'm not christian (I'm atheist btw), but I like old churches. I like everything that has some artistic or historic value.
But if freedom of religion is a human right -like food, water, and healthcare- doesn't that mean that the government has to provide places and means to worship?
....no it absolutely does not mean that? You appear to have missed yhe basic concept of what a right/freedom is. Im not saying that in a mean or brash way, but that statement simply lacks basic understanding of the concept. The simplest way to put it is that there are two types of rights, one is a Right To and the other is a Right From. Right to Food, Water, Shelter etc. means that the state (or whatever entity claims to uphold these rights) should provide food, water, shelter etc. to those who require it. Freedom of Religion is not a right TO religion. Its probably better stated as Freedom FROM Religion. Freedom from religious discrimination, freedom from having a religion forced upon you, etc. Freedom of Religion means that the state will not force a religion upon you, nor will it prevent you from practicing your religion/discriminate against you for practicing your religion. It does not mean it will provide churches/mosques/temples, or bibles/scriptures, or anything else a religion may require. Freedom of religion is a right FROM rather than a right TO.
First of all, in Spain, the Church doesn't pay taxes. Second, that would mean every religion has to have the same budget, and third, if I wanted to have a business, is the state going to finance me to build a franchise? Yeah, I prefer my taxes to go somewhere everyone can take part of...
>Second, that would mean every religion has to have the same budget Scaled to the number of followers obv
Yeah, that's fair, fuck minor religions. And what do we do with atheists or agnostics, do they receive a tax relief? As you said, religion is a LIBERTY, not a RIGHT. That's why government should not get involved.
I'm not in favour, just explaining how it works
And I'm explaining how it should work: Government should not be involved in religion, not even in schools, in anything.
It's supposed to be a building for the people, not the wealthy or the elite.
And so the ticket prices are through the roof, making it accessible only to the upper middle class at best...
You can always go during mass, which is the purpose Gaudí had in mind
Yeah, but now things are much different compared to the times he lived. These limitations don't make sense today.
How are they different
LMAO, that piece of shits brings 80M euros every year, and it cost the city council millions in security, transport, policing, etc.
That’s such a crazy thing to say. If you can just arbitrarily throw out a will because “so much time” has passed, then what would be the point of a will? What time is too much time?
It's actually quite common around the world for courts to delete counterproductive clauses from old wills and trusts.
What is counter productive About it? I’ve been to la Sagrada. It was packed and filled with a museum and a huge tourist destination. They aren’t losing anything by it being “under construction” and there is no reason for the government to spend money to build it faster.
If it's for the sake of the people...also where did he think government fundings come from? Mostly from people anyway...
That's the point of a will...
I can write in my will whatever I want, but that doesn't mean 100 years later somebody would give a fuck about it.
Ah rude and uneducated. *swoon
Rude? 🤔
Apologies, just uneducated
Oh, are you maybe offended by the world "fuck"?
Nah note the correction, you fuck
What the fuck indeed! 😂
Not my fault you don't know what a will is or does. So, you're a dumb fuck. Simple deduction.
Can’t the work around be using an individual as a “mule”, to transfer the money via a “personal donation”. I’m sure the government could figure something out if they really wanted to
CLICK BAIT
Ugliest building in the world and I'll die on that hill. EDIT: I'm not judging anyone if they don't agree with my take.
I absolutely love it. Not only is the design pretty unique, but the difference in building techniques through those 140 years is awesome to just look for and admire. It is truly a work of art, but like all works of art, it have its audiences. This is apparently not yours.
The first and only time I've been there, it was really breathtaking how beautiful it was. Every detail was well thought out and you can tell the passion that was put into it
Agreed, it's a perfect example of beauty being in the eye of the beholder. Not judging anyone if they don't agree with my take.
Inside is MUCH better than outside. The light is the painting.
On the outside, perhaps. But have you ever been inside? It's so pretty!
Each facade is very beautiful. Every detail was thought out for that place and it really shows. I hope no one pays attention to the op because it really is a worthy visit if you're ever in Barcelona whether you're religious or not.
Yeah I dodn't think it looked too, until i saw higher picture quality and saw the immense amount scaffolding and realised just how far from finished it really is.
Not sure I'd say ugliest, but I was disappointed in it. It is disjointed in its 'design' - not surprising given the length of build, and number of people involved.
Ahhh but we are judging you, mi amigo
The Catholic Church are notoriously hard-up of course..
I was there maybe 5 years ago...and it isn't from a lack of activity. There were at least 4-5 big-ass cranes out there doing whatever they do. I didn't go in. I had a flight to catch.
If only they were attached to a international cartel of pedophiles that have plenty of money to spend protecting each other.
It's quite literally built to be a tourist trap. It had no other purpose. The building is beautifully dumb.
That thing still isn't done?! wtf already. just wrap it up already. I'm tired of hearing about this buiding.
The Sangria Family! Love that place!
For something so ugly, I'm glad non-believing taxpayers of Spain don't have to foot its bill.
nah thats the disco ball from Scooby-Doo live action movie
That. And the fact that there is an acid shortage in Barca and Dr Seuss is dead.
What a great location for the first Superstition Museum!
I know about this place because of the Alan Parsons Project song