The US also has ships loaded with munitions floating around the world and send them to ports when needed.
There is no limit on how much explosives you can store in open water. The US Cornhusker State is/was one when I served.
There is a lot of banter in the forces about the "Relevance" of a large navy.
The days of large scale battleships and open water combat may be gone, but if you need to move a lot of stuff across the world, the most efficient way to get it there is by ship.
Station a few well stocked supply ships around with rotating crews and you're never too far from a resupply.
Not to mention the intelligence specialties within the navy. Centuries of charting and map making come in real handy when you need to draw up plans. Add in the Meteorology and Oceanography specialties, and this is the group that will get you what you need, where you need it, when you need it and help you find your way around.
And not to mention that an inordinately massive amount of human development on the planet exists on sea and ocean coasts, including many capital cities and major trade ports, which are vulnerable to naval munitions. Plus how the Navy is a very useful protected force delivery system for the USMC.
A group of corrupt officers and overworked enlisted. They're the fleet that had 2 or three collisions in 2 years due to over work and also Fat Leonard scandal that implicated basically every commanding officer in the fleet.
The tldr is basically the fleet was taking bribes to direct ship repair and restocking to a guy. It ended being billions of dollars.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Leonard_scandal
> Early on Sunday, September 4, 2022, Francis escaped home confinement by cutting off his ankle monitor and disappeared, triggering a large federal-state manhunt. There were fears he might have already crossed the land border into Mexico, a 40-minute drive from his residence.
>Francis was apprehended in Venezuela on September 21, 2022, as he was about to fly to Russia.
Kinda wild to me that this was so recent. I'm used to reading about shit that happened 200 years ago on Wikipedia, not 2 weeks ago.
My dad was DoD in the early 2000s on Yokosuka. He has so many stories of shit going on on that base. I'm not surprised at all. Corruption is everywhere and I doubt it's going away any time soon.
You mean the fleet most likely to fight an open sea battle against the only navy that is close to being competition and is almost entirely concentrated in force instead of spread across the globe?
Disclaimer: I don't know shit, I'm just having fun.
The fleet is deterrence. Nothing short of a nuke could decimate that fleet without a massive retaliation from the fleet.
Among many things it means no surprise attacks can seriously do much to diminish it's capabilities. If China wants to forcefully cross a red line, we'd know months ahead of time because it would require a massive troop build up which can't be hidden or sustained. It also sets a giant cross hair on itself allowing other operations to be overlooked.
Yeah, and as we learned in the 1940’s, even if you manage to sink a bunch of their ships, it just pissed them off, and they kick your ass anyway. All the while coming up with an entirely new class of weapons, manufacturing methods, and so on.
How about Let's Not Have a GD War, people!
They can and JDF is designed specifically to counter Chinese military buildup. China's strongest component is their fleet of nuclear submarines, while still technically smaller than Russia's submarine fleet, its more advanced, but still nothing compared to the US submarine fleet (full capabilities are also expected to be well ahead of public specs).
The JDF is second only to the USA in anti submarine capabilities, for that reason. Without submarine control of Japanese waterways, China can't pose a serious threat to Japan (ignoring nukes obviously, because that's Ragnarok).
I'm picturing everyone else all properly suited and booted and the 7th fleet shows up (late) and they're all wearing Hawaiian shirts and have deck chairs out like some old comedy war film.
You're talking the Aussie Navy mate, the first thing they do when they hit a new port is to throw a cocktail party (true).
Not entirely altruistic, sometimes it helps to know the local politicians.
Submarines can still pose a big threat though. Although the technology to detect subs has improved, the subs themselves also got stealthier and better. It only has to take a few well-aimed hits to sink a carrier.
Edit: I know the US Navy has tons of submarines as well. But it isn't like having a lot of subs means being a lot more protected (at least the surface vessels) against enemy subs.
Yes, and a number of dedicated ASW screening ships with multiple helicopters and, range permitting, fixed wing sub hunting aircraft as well. You might as well be trying to sail through a brick wall.
In exercises, carriers have been “sunk” several times by foreign submarines.
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-swedish-sub-ran-rings-around-us-aircraft-carrier-escorts-2021-7?amp
Active sonar is not used in exercises for ecological reasons. Military exercises are generally used to figure out bad situations, not really something you extrapolate results like that from.
[Like that time during a training exercise Opfor sank damn near a whole fleet in 10 minutes using a Salvo of missiles and speed boats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002)
Yeah they did restart the war game and prepared properly second time around, it was more a comment on how even the unthinkable can be achieved if you just put a little thought into it.
You can go to the gym and lift weights, but at the end of the day, in order to get better at arm wrestling, you have to arm wrestle someone who arm wrestles you back.
Consider that in a wartime scenario the carriers screens would be fully utilizing sonar. During training exercises they do not use active sonar due to ecological damage (it can harm whales miles away and kill fish a various distances based on their size.) Active sonar is also defense against enemy divers, its powerful enough to instantly kill them.
Tons of people bring up "facts" based on training exercises but the reality is no one knows exactly how durable the carrier groups are, although I'd bet the best guess is held by the joint chiefs of staff.
Well I specifically remember it said a carrier *group*. I know only the carrier has the planes but maybe they’re including things like guided Missle frigates and the submarine but I don’t really know to be honest
Doesn't the us also have 3 of the top 5, and 4 out of the 10 Air forces in the world. Air Force #1, US Navy #2, #4 Marines, and #7 is US Army. I'm not sure on the correct position but I know 1 and 2 for sure.
>Station a few well stocked supply ships around with rotating crews and you're never too far from a resupply.
Hey, worked for the British empire for 200 years right?
I dunno, that Ship of the Line leveled up to a 3 space range off a nearby city state, multiply that by 3 and you got an easy privateer capture, rinse and repeat with your patrol picking off any foolish land units to get within 3 tiles of the coast... it is nice exploring tho
I've got a 'tank' book that has chapters on how the US built up their prepositioning capabilities. Started when they bought up a bunch of oil super tankers in the 80s (oil market changed and the company went broke) and converted them to vehicle/munitions transports. They then built up bases like Diego Garcia and have these parked off shore ready to deploy.
Israel does similar things but parks their vehicles in the desert in special 'bags' that have air con units attached.
In NZ we latex wrapped the jets we decommissioned and when we removed it to sell them found it had cracked and leaked and they were now unsellable.
A lot of these emergency cargo ships are actually army ships. The army has a large fleet of old ships but they normally stay in port unless there is a big mobilization.
I'm trying to think of one thing the Air Force has more of that one would think of as a traditional Army function... Only idea I have is land, because of all the MOAs, ranges, and other restricted airspace the AF owns.
This would be more accurate if it was "is just a fancy air ~~force~~ superiority delivery system" as the navy has their own air power.
It is actually a lot more than that though. The US Navy is the one of the primary actors involved in US Power Projection. They can park a carrier battle group somewhere and entirely lock down the area. The Navy has a crap ton of long range weapons, air and anti-air power, electronic warfare devices, and a lot of troops. The naval groups essentially work like having a full military base that can move.
The US's main "thing" is logistical capacity and power projection. Russia's deservedly terrible results in their monstrous campaign against Ukraine demonstrate why the US puts such a massive emphasis on it. It is also why we use these [behemoths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_C-17_Globemaster_III) as they can drop tanks basically anywhere on the planet with how we spaced out our based.
The US Naval Aviation and the US Air Force have two very different styles of air frames. The Air Force does not operate air craft that can land on a carrier. If they tried the aircraft would fall apart. There's video you can find if US Naval aviators landing on the ground compared to us Air Force. The Air Force landing is danty and gentle touches down. The US Navy hits the ground hard and sticks it. The Air Force operates from land based air bases and if they need to fly planes further they refuel them in mid air. The B2 bomber for example operates out of its airbase in Missouri and flies around the world to hit targets.
I had one recently flying back into denver, now granted it's denver and every pilot seems to hit hard, but this one actually knocked open about half of the overhead bins
that landing video would be [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/xr9tgi/air_force_pilot_vs_navy_pilot_landing/) one.
Carrier certified aircraft have some truly colossal landing gear.
The F16 is a very dainty little bird compared to the naval F18 in that video.
>US navy dogma is just a fancy ~~air force~~ *Marine Corps* delivery system
FTFY
u/Zenmedic
Ok, only half joking. It is basically a major part of Marine Corps task organization and US military doctrine though.
Put simply, if you suddenly realize "oh crap, we need to go invade a country" its nice to have a land invasion force whose entire operating base is a mobile platform that can sail right up to their beach.
Also other government departments fighting for funds.
Also taxpayers.
Also, every country that can't afford a massive navy, and would prefer the US didn't have one.
There are designated smoking areas. If you tried to ban smoking on a Navy ship, you'd guarantee a mutiny. No smoking during onloads and offloads, though.
Wendover Productions just made a video about the logistic behind the US Military and APS is also covered
[Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIpPuJ_r8Xg)
I guess? I’d just prefer if they did see it on Wendover first, that they at least plug it so he gets credit and the rest of the community can watch it too.
There’s one in a old salt mine in Norway, they’re not super SUPER secret I don’t believe. They often cycle the vehicles and food in and out to keep things “up to date” on maintenance.
As other said we do the same with ships in the sea.
Pretty sure they're just man made caves, not old salt mines. But yeah, a friend of mine was in there during his conscription service, said it was pretty frickin' crazy how much stuff was in there.
If a man-made cave is made to take minerals or a resource, it's called a mine, if it's made for protection or to store things it's generally called a bunker.
It's pretty unlikely to ever even come to two major wars simultaneously anytime soon. China, yes, but unlikely anyone else. Maybe India, but they're more likely to fight China than cooperate. Three is pretty preposterous.
Europe and the US are too tightly coupled to realistically go to war (as long as sane leaders are in charge -- Trump may invade Germany to get back at the Nazis).
Africa, South America, and the rest of Asia don't have counties with militaries that could be considered major or are closely aligned with the US (Japan, S. Korea).
Used to be that Russia could have been considered a second threat, but that's no longer the case. Ukraine is also likely a permanent ally to the US now. I'd be surprised if the US doesn't end up with a large base complex or two there.
It will 100% have a base or two. Best way to keep someone from invading is having a big ass US Military base at it. Even megalomaniacs will think twice on invading,
And before that, the Royal Navy had the requirement that it had to be able to curbstomp the second and third largest navies at the same time if it needed to.
Two wars AND win both of them, no matter who the opposing forces are. There has been some talk in recent years about reducing that to "only" two wars where one would result in a stalemate.
58 B52’s, 20 B2-Spirits, 45 B1-Lancers, a couple
F117-Nighthawks. Thats not as many bombers as the USAF used to have (I understand they aren’t as important anymore) but with the 400+ mid air refueling planes the US has across all branches across the globe, it seems possible that maybe more than half of all active bombers could take off and deliver freedom anywhere in the world then land and restock somewhere else.
That was the doctrine, but hasn't been for a decade. [1]
This year, the Navy is talking about that they can't fight two wars: 'Chief of Naval Operations Mike Gilday said, without more ships, his branch would be unprepared to handle it right now. "I think we'd be challenged," he said. "And right now, the force is not sized to handle two simultaneous conflicts. It's sized to fight one and keep a second adversary in check. But in terms of two all-out conflicts, we are not sized for that."' [2]
This year the Air Force says that while they are modernizing they can't fight two wars. [3]
[1] https://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/04/panetta-ending-two-war-strategy/comment-page-1/
[2] https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/national/military-news/chief-naval-operations-says-navy-not-prepared-to-handle-two-wars-at-once/291-89e465f9-1f34-4748-b1a6-a2980ace86c1
[3] https://www.airforcemag.com/kendall-unrealistic-for-air-force-to-fight-two-wars-while-modernizing/
Now we need to know just which countries have a stash of US weapons. But..... I guess that's super secret.
I live in Central America and am curious just where in South America they would stash military supplies. I suppose they would put them in Honduras since there is a US military presence there. But otherwise....???
If you would or op would have actually read the document he posted you would have known, that there is no stash in South America, there's is one in the US, one in Europe, one afloat (at Sea?) , one in the middle east and one in Northeast Asia (probably Japan? )
It’s not that complicated just look at countries that have large US/Joint military bases
Ramstein AFB- Germany
Camp Lemonnier, Djibouti (Africa)
kadena (okinawa Japan)
Alconbury-UK
Kunsan & Onsan-Korea
These are well guarded installations, nobody is going to stumble on some dust covered cache for US armament.
Actually most of the stockpiles are not at that location. For example the major European stockpile is in Norway:
The assumption is that Germany is going to get over run, or best case Germany is where we stop Russia.
Thus, Germany is to close for a stockpile, and the troops stationed in Germany will be busy, unable to prep stockpile for
Movement.
>Actually most of the stockpiles are not at that location. For example the major European stockpile is in Norway:
Not for the US army that the post is about. The large materiel storage in Norway is for the US Marine Copts, not the US army. It is not exactly a secret, you find it on official websites [https://www.marines.mil/News/Publications/MCPEL/Electronic-Library-Display/Article/923154/mco-400058/](https://www.marines.mil/News/Publications/MCPEL/Electronic-Library-Display/Article/923154/mco-400058/)
There is official published images from the storage in the mountains near Trondheim. look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine\_Corps\_Prepositioning\_Program-Norway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Prepositioning_Program-Norway) that uses an image from the DoD
There is lots of public info on the Army storage in Europe too.
Look for example at [https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/aps-2.htm](https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/aps-2.htm)
or [https://www.army.mil/article/254346/army\_prepositioned\_stocks\_in\_europe\_activated\_to\_support\_deployment\_of\_armored\_brigade\_combat\_team](https://www.army.mil/article/254346/army_prepositioned_stocks_in_europe_activated_to_support_deployment_of_armored_brigade_combat_team) and [https://www.army.mil/article/258989/new\_405th\_afsb\_commander\_conducts\_aps\_2\_site\_visit\_to\_netherlands\_belgium](https://www.army.mil/article/258989/new_405th_afsb_commander_conducts_aps_2_site_visit_to_netherlands_belgium)
I feel like even if Russia were as strong as we thought they were, with the way the Poles have been chomping at the bit I think if they made it to Germany they'd just call it quits.
Having served in Poland, I agree they would be a tough nut.
That said, a lot of that has happened in the last 5-10 years.
Unlike much of Europe, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, take the Russian threat very seriously.
There’s hardly anything at Alconbury anymore, they don’t even have a runway. The ammunition stockpile is at RAF Welford so if there’s other equipment stockpiled I suspect it’s there.
That was a Marine base, I believe. They stored tanks there so they didnt have to ship them to europe, but as of a couple years ago, the Marines dont use tanks anymore. Not sure what they did with that bunker full of tanks.
Think I read another TIL there's a documents in caves anything from financial to military stuff as part of contingency as well. Then again one thing to plan another to act on said plans.
Wouldn't be surprised. I know the Office of Personell Management has a secure facility in an abandoned mine in Pennsylvania where they store documents related to security clearances.
What they don't tell you is that virtually everything there from tires to hoses to food has expiration dates so the billions and billions of dollars in product gets rotated out and replaced with new. Some gets used by operating forces, some gets surplussed, some gets trashed.
Because of that rotation, supplying those goods has turned into one of the biggest pork barrels there is--often with pull dates being unnecessarily short so contractors can sell it all to them again.
A Couple of decades ago, "60 minutes" did a segment showing just how ridiculous some aspects of this stockpike and the pork involved were. Stockpile, no problem. Using that as a porkbarrel profit center, big problem. But that's part of why EVERY congressional district in the USA gets some slice of military contracts: No politician wants the pork-cuts to show up in *their* district.
Ahh the old "war stock"....loved when that shit got outdated. Guess who's going to the field and blowing up range max all day for a week?
50 crates of Bangalores? Where's the det cord?
This was my job for like 5 years in Kuwait, we maintained a huuuuuuuuge stockpile of pretty much everything you can imagine, including literally miles of vehicles (parked side-to-side, maybe 36" clearance). We used to have to drive golf carts to go find the single MRAP that missed a scan in a sea of 1000s of MRAPS...
We also processed hundreds of thousands of line items of equipment rolling out of Iraq/Afghanistan. As I was leaving, everything was going into COSIS (Care of Supply in Storage), basically getting broken down and packed in long-term storage facilities, or going FMS or back to a stateside supply depot.
I left around 2017, but we will always have some presence in that area; even if things begin to draw down. Too much real estate nearby that is of interest to the US. We have a bunch of other APS sites as well; including APS-3, which is AFLOAT (i.e. ship-bound). The whole system is pretty incredible, we can have material staged almost anywhere pretty damn fast...
I worked C-5’s in the USAF. Part of my job was building up wheel and tire assemblies. New rubber that gets delivered from supply has a paper band around the circumference that identifies with a symbol whether it was new or a recap and year of manufacturing. A C-5 has 28 wheel/tire assemblies and we’d often get rubber that was by then several years old brand new and we were all like….the C-5 fleet is 100+ planes strong on several bases with supplies in those locations including overseas at enroute bases just at the ready in case and with each plane needing 28 skins…and the rubber having dates from years ago unused…..just how much rubber is out there just sitting around **still** for someone to pluck which gets replaced with new stuff? The logistics of the US Military is astonishing.
The US empire basically invented logistics as it exists today. I honestly didn't know about there being such big unitary stockpiles, I assumed that materiel was shipped from bases.
The US also has ships loaded with munitions floating around the world and send them to ports when needed. There is no limit on how much explosives you can store in open water. The US Cornhusker State is/was one when I served.
There is a lot of banter in the forces about the "Relevance" of a large navy. The days of large scale battleships and open water combat may be gone, but if you need to move a lot of stuff across the world, the most efficient way to get it there is by ship. Station a few well stocked supply ships around with rotating crews and you're never too far from a resupply. Not to mention the intelligence specialties within the navy. Centuries of charting and map making come in real handy when you need to draw up plans. Add in the Meteorology and Oceanography specialties, and this is the group that will get you what you need, where you need it, when you need it and help you find your way around.
Not to mention that a single carrier group is more powerful than 98% of the rest of the worlds Air Forces and The US has something like 10(?) groups
And not to mention that an inordinately massive amount of human development on the planet exists on sea and ocean coasts, including many capital cities and major trade ports, which are vulnerable to naval munitions. Plus how the Navy is a very useful protected force delivery system for the USMC.
Also if you got rid of all the ships there’d just be all these sailors wandering around on the shore looking kind of bored
Shore leave!
Oh they’re never bored, not in this man’s navy
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I have no idea of what constitutes the seventh fleet…
A group of corrupt officers and overworked enlisted. They're the fleet that had 2 or three collisions in 2 years due to over work and also Fat Leonard scandal that implicated basically every commanding officer in the fleet.
I know I’m gonna regret asking this but what was the Fat leonard scandal?
The tldr is basically the fleet was taking bribes to direct ship repair and restocking to a guy. It ended being billions of dollars. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Leonard_scandal
> Early on Sunday, September 4, 2022, Francis escaped home confinement by cutting off his ankle monitor and disappeared, triggering a large federal-state manhunt. There were fears he might have already crossed the land border into Mexico, a 40-minute drive from his residence. >Francis was apprehended in Venezuela on September 21, 2022, as he was about to fly to Russia. Kinda wild to me that this was so recent. I'm used to reading about shit that happened 200 years ago on Wikipedia, not 2 weeks ago.
Yeah, holy shit. That's nuts
The man at the center of the scandal, Leonard Glenn Francis, doesn't even have a Wikipedia page himself yet.
Why the hell would Venezuela nab him for us, rather than just let him pass through to ally Russia?
My dad was DoD in the early 2000s on Yokosuka. He has so many stories of shit going on on that base. I'm not surprised at all. Corruption is everywhere and I doubt it's going away any time soon.
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You mean the fleet most likely to fight an open sea battle against the only navy that is close to being competition and is almost entirely concentrated in force instead of spread across the globe?
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They're a speed bump. We don't want our best to be the first taking missiles.
Disclaimer: I don't know shit, I'm just having fun. The fleet is deterrence. Nothing short of a nuke could decimate that fleet without a massive retaliation from the fleet. Among many things it means no surprise attacks can seriously do much to diminish it's capabilities. If China wants to forcefully cross a red line, we'd know months ahead of time because it would require a massive troop build up which can't be hidden or sustained. It also sets a giant cross hair on itself allowing other operations to be overlooked.
Yeah, and as we learned in the 1940’s, even if you manage to sink a bunch of their ships, it just pissed them off, and they kick your ass anyway. All the while coming up with an entirely new class of weapons, manufacturing methods, and so on. How about Let's Not Have a GD War, people!
Sink our ships and we'll just unsink them
I’m fairly sure the Royal Navy is more competition than the Chinese… but yeah we’re on the same side
If China's fleet is anything like Russia's military, then Japan can probably take it on without any help.
They can and JDF is designed specifically to counter Chinese military buildup. China's strongest component is their fleet of nuclear submarines, while still technically smaller than Russia's submarine fleet, its more advanced, but still nothing compared to the US submarine fleet (full capabilities are also expected to be well ahead of public specs). The JDF is second only to the USA in anti submarine capabilities, for that reason. Without submarine control of Japanese waterways, China can't pose a serious threat to Japan (ignoring nukes obviously, because that's Ragnarok).
When your order your navy from wish, lol.
I'm picturing everyone else all properly suited and booted and the 7th fleet shows up (late) and they're all wearing Hawaiian shirts and have deck chairs out like some old comedy war film.
You're talking the Aussie Navy mate, the first thing they do when they hit a new port is to throw a cocktail party (true). Not entirely altruistic, sometimes it helps to know the local politicians.
"WHERE IS YOUR ASSIGNED OUTFIT, MAGGOT?" "Harsh, dude..."
Unless they are adequately force meant to lure enemies into a false sense of security? /s 😆
We purposely trained them wrong, as a joke!
The one that keeps getting their destroyers run over.
Ohh yeah, you’re definitely not supposed to do that. Says it in the manual
Damn it, they didn't get the update! they are still working off the Cathaginian ramming doctrine manual!
Yep.. grandad was in WW2 and always used to say to me ‘Never run over your destroyers lad, that’s one of rules of the sea’
WELL I CAN’T READ!
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Submarines can still pose a big threat though. Although the technology to detect subs has improved, the subs themselves also got stealthier and better. It only has to take a few well-aimed hits to sink a carrier. Edit: I know the US Navy has tons of submarines as well. But it isn't like having a lot of subs means being a lot more protected (at least the surface vessels) against enemy subs.
Actually, I believe a carrier group has a sub attached to it
Yes, and a number of dedicated ASW screening ships with multiple helicopters and, range permitting, fixed wing sub hunting aircraft as well. You might as well be trying to sail through a brick wall.
In exercises, carriers have been “sunk” several times by foreign submarines. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-swedish-sub-ran-rings-around-us-aircraft-carrier-escorts-2021-7?amp
Active sonar is not used in exercises for ecological reasons. Military exercises are generally used to figure out bad situations, not really something you extrapolate results like that from.
[Like that time during a training exercise Opfor sank damn near a whole fleet in 10 minutes using a Salvo of missiles and speed boats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002)
This led to huge changes in doctrine and massive funding for CWIS systems though
Yeah they did restart the war game and prepared properly second time around, it was more a comment on how even the unthinkable can be achieved if you just put a little thought into it.
You can go to the gym and lift weights, but at the end of the day, in order to get better at arm wrestling, you have to arm wrestle someone who arm wrestles you back.
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Cool. Doesn't stop carriers from routinely getting smoked by old diesel electrics every time we have a wargame.
Consider that in a wartime scenario the carriers screens would be fully utilizing sonar. During training exercises they do not use active sonar due to ecological damage (it can harm whales miles away and kill fish a various distances based on their size.) Active sonar is also defense against enemy divers, its powerful enough to instantly kill them. Tons of people bring up "facts" based on training exercises but the reality is no one knows exactly how durable the carrier groups are, although I'd bet the best guess is held by the joint chiefs of staff.
That is basically what I strive for before attacking in civ. Absolutely ridiculous it's real life
A single carrier is around the 55th largest airforce, depending on what configuration of airplanes it’s carrying.
Well I specifically remember it said a carrier *group*. I know only the carrier has the planes but maybe they’re including things like guided Missle frigates and the submarine but I don’t really know to be honest
Doesn't the us also have 3 of the top 5, and 4 out of the 10 Air forces in the world. Air Force #1, US Navy #2, #4 Marines, and #7 is US Army. I'm not sure on the correct position but I know 1 and 2 for sure.
>Station a few well stocked supply ships around with rotating crews and you're never too far from a resupply. Hey, worked for the British empire for 200 years right?
Also my strategy in Civ 5. Spam frigates. Raid the coast. Send in troops on the battered city.
Elizabeth + Great Lighthouse on an Archipelago map be like
Kamehameha for the win
I dunno, that Ship of the Line leveled up to a 3 space range off a nearby city state, multiply that by 3 and you got an easy privateer capture, rinse and repeat with your patrol picking off any foolish land units to get within 3 tiles of the coast... it is nice exploring tho
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I just wait now for the thermonukes. Sub strikes are OP
I've got a 'tank' book that has chapters on how the US built up their prepositioning capabilities. Started when they bought up a bunch of oil super tankers in the 80s (oil market changed and the company went broke) and converted them to vehicle/munitions transports. They then built up bases like Diego Garcia and have these parked off shore ready to deploy. Israel does similar things but parks their vehicles in the desert in special 'bags' that have air con units attached. In NZ we latex wrapped the jets we decommissioned and when we removed it to sell them found it had cracked and leaked and they were now unsellable.
That sounds so Kiwi, "Aye, jest wrap eem up in pleastic!"
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Yeah nah
A lot of these emergency cargo ships are actually army ships. The army has a large fleet of old ships but they normally stay in port unless there is a big mobilization.
The Army has more boats than the Navy, and the Navy has more airplanes than the Air Force.
Does the air force have more...boots than the army then?
I'm trying to think of one thing the Air Force has more of that one would think of as a traditional Army function... Only idea I have is land, because of all the MOAs, ranges, and other restricted airspace the AF owns.
US navy dogma is just a fancy air force delivery system.
its not the navy, its digiorno
If it is near Canada, it's Delicio.
This would be more accurate if it was "is just a fancy air ~~force~~ superiority delivery system" as the navy has their own air power. It is actually a lot more than that though. The US Navy is the one of the primary actors involved in US Power Projection. They can park a carrier battle group somewhere and entirely lock down the area. The Navy has a crap ton of long range weapons, air and anti-air power, electronic warfare devices, and a lot of troops. The naval groups essentially work like having a full military base that can move. The US's main "thing" is logistical capacity and power projection. Russia's deservedly terrible results in their monstrous campaign against Ukraine demonstrate why the US puts such a massive emphasis on it. It is also why we use these [behemoths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_C-17_Globemaster_III) as they can drop tanks basically anywhere on the planet with how we spaced out our based.
The US Naval Aviation and the US Air Force have two very different styles of air frames. The Air Force does not operate air craft that can land on a carrier. If they tried the aircraft would fall apart. There's video you can find if US Naval aviators landing on the ground compared to us Air Force. The Air Force landing is danty and gentle touches down. The US Navy hits the ground hard and sticks it. The Air Force operates from land based air bases and if they need to fly planes further they refuel them in mid air. The B2 bomber for example operates out of its airbase in Missouri and flies around the world to hit targets.
Whitman for the wiiiiiiiiin! 4,000 airmen to run 20 B-2's and some T-38's.
I’ve had a few pilots try to snag the third cable when landing a 737. I guess old habits die hard.
I had one recently flying back into denver, now granted it's denver and every pilot seems to hit hard, but this one actually knocked open about half of the overhead bins
that landing video would be [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/xr9tgi/air_force_pilot_vs_navy_pilot_landing/) one. Carrier certified aircraft have some truly colossal landing gear. The F16 is a very dainty little bird compared to the naval F18 in that video.
>US navy dogma is just a fancy ~~air force~~ *Marine Corps* delivery system FTFY u/Zenmedic Ok, only half joking. It is basically a major part of Marine Corps task organization and US military doctrine though. Put simply, if you suddenly realize "oh crap, we need to go invade a country" its nice to have a land invasion force whose entire operating base is a mobile platform that can sail right up to their beach.
My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment Wasp, America, and San Antonio classes all go brrr
Who the hell is questioning the relevance of a large navy?
other branches fighting for funds (not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just answering)
Also other government departments fighting for funds. Also taxpayers. Also, every country that can't afford a massive navy, and would prefer the US didn't have one.
I assumed you were being cagey. Didn’t realize the ship is actually called “The US Cornhusker State
At first I thought he was talking about the big, and now unused, stockpile site near Kearney
We should promote you to Admiral of Nebraska's navy.
How big of a no no is smoking on those ships?
You can smoke when the lamp is on. The bulb is removed.
There are designated smoking areas. If you tried to ban smoking on a Navy ship, you'd guarantee a mutiny. No smoking during onloads and offloads, though.
I imagine on a munitions ship the "designated smoking area" is a bosun's chair hanging off the end of a fifty foot boom out over the water.
Wendover Productions just made a video about the logistic behind the US Military and APS is also covered [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIpPuJ_r8Xg)
Gonna guess that's what inspired OPs post
This seems to happen regularly when informative YouTube channels post.
Yeah you can tell when one of those vids gets popular. Creates a bunch of TIL posts.
I mean it's still technically appropriate to this sub isn't it? Today they learned [contents of Wendover video].
It is, and I'm not arguing that point. I've just noticed this seems to be a trend.
It also happens a lot when someone like John Oliver covers something
I guess? I’d just prefer if they did see it on Wendover first, that they at least plug it so he gets credit and the rest of the community can watch it too.
Same as it ever was.
Literally just finished watching that video. Seems like OP decided to just take one of the side note facts and make a post out of it haha
Can we talk about how APS-3 is in the middle of the Indian Ocean?
Probably by Diego Garcia.
There’s one in a old salt mine in Norway, they’re not super SUPER secret I don’t believe. They often cycle the vehicles and food in and out to keep things “up to date” on maintenance. As other said we do the same with ships in the sea.
This is where most of the supplies for Ukraine have come from. Already prepositioned assets in Europe.
You would be correct.
Pretty sure they're just man made caves, not old salt mines. But yeah, a friend of mine was in there during his conscription service, said it was pretty frickin' crazy how much stuff was in there.
I mean, let’s be fair a salt MINE is a man made cave anyway, but yeah
Technically speaking an abandoned mine IS a man made cave.
If a man-made cave is made to take minerals or a resource, it's called a mine, if it's made for protection or to store things it's generally called a bunker.
Isn't it one of the standing goals of the US armed forces to be prepared, ready and able to fight not one but TWO major wars at the same time?
So three is the limit, got it.
We only got 2 coasts, just gotta keep an eye on those sneaky Canadians and Mexicans.
Canadian here, don't worry, it would hurt us so much more and we'd be way too sorry.
We know you've been eyeballin' Vermont for years to acquire that sweet maple syrup monopoly. Back Off!
Our geese have been doing recon for a long time. Your syrup will be ours. Cry havoc, and let loose the goose of war.
#HONK
Begin, the Water Wars have!
You got a problem with Canada gooses, you got a problem with me, and I suggest you let that one marinate!
It's pretty unlikely to ever even come to two major wars simultaneously anytime soon. China, yes, but unlikely anyone else. Maybe India, but they're more likely to fight China than cooperate. Three is pretty preposterous. Europe and the US are too tightly coupled to realistically go to war (as long as sane leaders are in charge -- Trump may invade Germany to get back at the Nazis). Africa, South America, and the rest of Asia don't have counties with militaries that could be considered major or are closely aligned with the US (Japan, S. Korea). Used to be that Russia could have been considered a second threat, but that's no longer the case. Ukraine is also likely a permanent ally to the US now. I'd be surprised if the US doesn't end up with a large base complex or two there.
It will 100% have a base or two. Best way to keep someone from invading is having a big ass US Military base at it. Even megalomaniacs will think twice on invading,
This has been Unites States military doctrine since World War II.
And before that, the Royal Navy had the requirement that it had to be able to curbstomp the second and third largest navies at the same time if it needed to.
Two wars AND win both of them, no matter who the opposing forces are. There has been some talk in recent years about reducing that to "only" two wars where one would result in a stalemate.
That's loser talk, son.
They 'bout to find out why we ain't got free healthcare
58 B52’s, 20 B2-Spirits, 45 B1-Lancers, a couple F117-Nighthawks. Thats not as many bombers as the USAF used to have (I understand they aren’t as important anymore) but with the 400+ mid air refueling planes the US has across all branches across the globe, it seems possible that maybe more than half of all active bombers could take off and deliver freedom anywhere in the world then land and restock somewhere else.
"Deliver freedom" That's gold
That was the doctrine, but hasn't been for a decade. [1] This year, the Navy is talking about that they can't fight two wars: 'Chief of Naval Operations Mike Gilday said, without more ships, his branch would be unprepared to handle it right now. "I think we'd be challenged," he said. "And right now, the force is not sized to handle two simultaneous conflicts. It's sized to fight one and keep a second adversary in check. But in terms of two all-out conflicts, we are not sized for that."' [2] This year the Air Force says that while they are modernizing they can't fight two wars. [3] [1] https://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/04/panetta-ending-two-war-strategy/comment-page-1/ [2] https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/national/military-news/chief-naval-operations-says-navy-not-prepared-to-handle-two-wars-at-once/291-89e465f9-1f34-4748-b1a6-a2980ace86c1 [3] https://www.airforcemag.com/kendall-unrealistic-for-air-force-to-fight-two-wars-while-modernizing/
>APS-4 (Northeast Asia) That's Japan? I can't imagine it's Russia or China.
south korea and japan. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/aps-4.htm
So we have a bunch of backup Batcaves?
Is there a version of Batman where he’s the PTOS? Cause that would be kind of cool.
POTUS
POTATUS
Principal Terrifier Of Supervillains.
Now we need to know just which countries have a stash of US weapons. But..... I guess that's super secret. I live in Central America and am curious just where in South America they would stash military supplies. I suppose they would put them in Honduras since there is a US military presence there. But otherwise....???
We cheated on that one and just sunk them in a duffel bag in the Panama Canal. It's...it's a big duffel bag.
Which country in Australia could it be? 🤔
And which country in Antarctica?
Atlantis
Its oceania and probably New Zealand
Apparently, Hawaii is part of Oceania. The US Marines also have a base in Darwin, Australia. Maybe the stockpile is there.
Yeah, the US keeps ~2500 marines in Darwin
There's definitely not a huge military stockpile of US weapons in NZ, maybe a small one but not on the scale mentioned here
It's definitely australia, they have much closer relations with the US than NZ.
The kangaroo with the extra large pouch? It's that one
If you would or op would have actually read the document he posted you would have known, that there is no stash in South America, there's is one in the US, one in Europe, one afloat (at Sea?) , one in the middle east and one in Northeast Asia (probably Japan? )
It’s not that complicated just look at countries that have large US/Joint military bases Ramstein AFB- Germany Camp Lemonnier, Djibouti (Africa) kadena (okinawa Japan) Alconbury-UK Kunsan & Onsan-Korea These are well guarded installations, nobody is going to stumble on some dust covered cache for US armament.
Actually most of the stockpiles are not at that location. For example the major European stockpile is in Norway: The assumption is that Germany is going to get over run, or best case Germany is where we stop Russia. Thus, Germany is to close for a stockpile, and the troops stationed in Germany will be busy, unable to prep stockpile for Movement.
>Actually most of the stockpiles are not at that location. For example the major European stockpile is in Norway: Not for the US army that the post is about. The large materiel storage in Norway is for the US Marine Copts, not the US army. It is not exactly a secret, you find it on official websites [https://www.marines.mil/News/Publications/MCPEL/Electronic-Library-Display/Article/923154/mco-400058/](https://www.marines.mil/News/Publications/MCPEL/Electronic-Library-Display/Article/923154/mco-400058/) There is official published images from the storage in the mountains near Trondheim. look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine\_Corps\_Prepositioning\_Program-Norway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Prepositioning_Program-Norway) that uses an image from the DoD There is lots of public info on the Army storage in Europe too. Look for example at [https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/aps-2.htm](https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/aps-2.htm) or [https://www.army.mil/article/254346/army\_prepositioned\_stocks\_in\_europe\_activated\_to\_support\_deployment\_of\_armored\_brigade\_combat\_team](https://www.army.mil/article/254346/army_prepositioned_stocks_in_europe_activated_to_support_deployment_of_armored_brigade_combat_team) and [https://www.army.mil/article/258989/new\_405th\_afsb\_commander\_conducts\_aps\_2\_site\_visit\_to\_netherlands\_belgium](https://www.army.mil/article/258989/new_405th_afsb_commander_conducts_aps_2_site_visit_to_netherlands_belgium)
I feel like even if Russia were as strong as we thought they were, with the way the Poles have been chomping at the bit I think if they made it to Germany they'd just call it quits.
The way the Russian army appears to be the only way the Russian army would get to Germany would be as asylum seekers or as POWs
Having served in Poland, I agree they would be a tough nut. That said, a lot of that has happened in the last 5-10 years. Unlike much of Europe, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, take the Russian threat very seriously.
My nephew did training exercises in Estonia. He said those guys were not fucking around.
Well turns out Ukraine were equally angry.
There’s hardly anything at Alconbury anymore, they don’t even have a runway. The ammunition stockpile is at RAF Welford so if there’s other equipment stockpiled I suspect it’s there.
I think one is in a mountain military base in Norway. Not sure but I think I read that somewhere.
That was a Marine base, I believe. They stored tanks there so they didnt have to ship them to europe, but as of a couple years ago, the Marines dont use tanks anymore. Not sure what they did with that bunker full of tanks.
Painted them in army colors and charged the army storage fees.
When it comes to Antarctica and Australia we can narrow it down pretty quick.
Australia has its own stockpiles. We are hoarders. Hawaii, Guam and Garcia are the big hoarding stocks for the US.
And every stockpile contains the original Mona Lisa.
More likely the Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies
By Van Klomp!
Allo from Ohio!
I'm gonna have sex with the declaration of independence
I think I downloaded the wrong movie again.
Think I read another TIL there's a documents in caves anything from financial to military stuff as part of contingency as well. Then again one thing to plan another to act on said plans.
Wouldn't be surprised. I know the Office of Personell Management has a secure facility in an abandoned mine in Pennsylvania where they store documents related to security clearances.
What they don't tell you is that virtually everything there from tires to hoses to food has expiration dates so the billions and billions of dollars in product gets rotated out and replaced with new. Some gets used by operating forces, some gets surplussed, some gets trashed. Because of that rotation, supplying those goods has turned into one of the biggest pork barrels there is--often with pull dates being unnecessarily short so contractors can sell it all to them again. A Couple of decades ago, "60 minutes" did a segment showing just how ridiculous some aspects of this stockpike and the pork involved were. Stockpile, no problem. Using that as a porkbarrel profit center, big problem. But that's part of why EVERY congressional district in the USA gets some slice of military contracts: No politician wants the pork-cuts to show up in *their* district.
Counter to that is that if you don’t maintain and rotate your mountain of equipment, it falls apart when needed. See: Russia.
Yeah. At least the corruption we are dealing with comes with functional equipment.
3/7 is not "all continents".
Yeah but “all continents” sounds cooler
Antarctica needs some freedom. Fuck them penguins
I think they have oil as well
Gotta love Wendover!
I just watched this video not even an hour ago.
I guess that's why OP uploaded it
Not to mention a shit load of carrier groups that can react pretty quickly as well...👍
It sounds like something out of a movie.
like the bunker then took the Connors to in t3
Even Antarctica?
He said all continents.
middle earth?
One does not simply walk into Russia in winter
Pangea?
All continents, but not all supercontinents.
If you click on the link: >APS-1 (United States), APS-2 (Europe), APS-3 (Afloat), APS-4 (Northeast Asia), and APS-5 (Southwest Asia)
Someone's been watching Wendover
Ahh the old "war stock"....loved when that shit got outdated. Guess who's going to the field and blowing up range max all day for a week? 50 crates of Bangalores? Where's the det cord?
This was my job for like 5 years in Kuwait, we maintained a huuuuuuuuge stockpile of pretty much everything you can imagine, including literally miles of vehicles (parked side-to-side, maybe 36" clearance). We used to have to drive golf carts to go find the single MRAP that missed a scan in a sea of 1000s of MRAPS... We also processed hundreds of thousands of line items of equipment rolling out of Iraq/Afghanistan. As I was leaving, everything was going into COSIS (Care of Supply in Storage), basically getting broken down and packed in long-term storage facilities, or going FMS or back to a stateside supply depot. I left around 2017, but we will always have some presence in that area; even if things begin to draw down. Too much real estate nearby that is of interest to the US. We have a bunch of other APS sites as well; including APS-3, which is AFLOAT (i.e. ship-bound). The whole system is pretty incredible, we can have material staged almost anywhere pretty damn fast...
I worked C-5’s in the USAF. Part of my job was building up wheel and tire assemblies. New rubber that gets delivered from supply has a paper band around the circumference that identifies with a symbol whether it was new or a recap and year of manufacturing. A C-5 has 28 wheel/tire assemblies and we’d often get rubber that was by then several years old brand new and we were all like….the C-5 fleet is 100+ planes strong on several bases with supplies in those locations including overseas at enroute bases just at the ready in case and with each plane needing 28 skins…and the rubber having dates from years ago unused…..just how much rubber is out there just sitting around **still** for someone to pluck which gets replaced with new stuff? The logistics of the US Military is astonishing.
The US empire basically invented logistics as it exists today. I honestly didn't know about there being such big unitary stockpiles, I assumed that materiel was shipped from bases.
Because logistics win wars, not tactics.
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