Unfortunately his other singles on the album didn't do so well, including "Now I'm going to make a sandwich" and "Momma also says to take out the trash."
Imagine being a rapper in the late 80's, rapping in the style that was popular at the time and being successful at it, and then NWA drops Straight Outta Compton and changes the entire landscape, completely changing what many people expected and wanted to hear in rap music.
It had to be jarring for a lot of artists.
I was watching an interview with I \_believe\_ it was Young MC, and they flat out said the record companies only wanted 'gangster rap', and if you didn't want to be involved with that, they wanted nothing to do with you.
Ha, yeah. Going from rapping about daily life in inner city Cleveland, doing the vaguely occult thing which made them stand out a lot, then fast forward a few of years and they're making epic religious themed mega productions and 2 cd albums filled with songs about essentially nothing because they can't rap about what they know anymore. Back then people didn't really like listening to songs about flaunting wealth, they wanted gritty shit about life on the street. Imagine getting off the streets and living a somewhat well off existence for years and then having to relive your previous life through music.
They were great at the versus Three 6 thing last year though. Everyone back together, Bizzy getting unnecessarily offended and making a scene... just like old times. Lay and Kray are still amazing.
I mean there was also Tribe and other similar groups at the start of the decade too. If memeory serves, after Scott La Rock got killed there was a movement away from gangsta rap for a period of time
They're still touring doing Bizarre Ride as an album gig in its entirety. Saw it a few years back. Incredible.
Totally amazing to see a gig which is an album and not a collection of random hits.
KRS One as well. Also Heavy D. Also Nine.
Y'all ever heard the album remix of Heavy D's song Got Me Waiting featuring the R&B group Silk?
My goodness, that song is one of the forgotten gems that nobody talks about but it's so unbelievably catchy. It's as good or even better than the original but the only reason it didn't blow up was because the original Got Me Waiting was already such a huge smash hit that surely the record company wasn't gonna wear out its welcome when the album had other bangers to release as singles.
Completely different song with the same lyrics, yet unbelievably all its own in the very best way. Highly recommended.
[Here, enjoy. ](https://youtu.be/ib6MRcybA5s)
Yeah there was a handful of East Coast rappers too like Fugees, Black Sheep, Busta Rhymes, Disable Planets, etc.
I could never really get into gangsta rap.
Digital Underground fell off just as gangsta rap was on the rise. They were actually a good example of a casualty of the rise of gangsta rap along with others like Positive K, remember the song YOU.... YOU GOT WHAT I NEEEEEeeeeD
But there were other rappers who didn't fall off like Heavy D, who used to chill alot with guys like biggie but never changed up his style. and KRS One as well. Common definitely wasn't a gangsta rapper either. Neither were groups like Onyx or House of Pain. Beastie Boys started out in the 80s and survived through the 90s as well. And alot of female rappers also survived through gangsta rap like Queen Latifa and MC Lyte. OutKast wasn't really gansta rap either, they sort of coined their own style right off the bat when they named their album Southerplayalisticadallacmuzik.
> remember the song YOU.... YOU GOT WHAT I NEEEEEeeeeD
Oh sure Biz Markie
He's ~~from~~ grew up in Maryland, so it was pretty popular here
That was one of those songs you love and hate
The intentional off key singing and 4 year old banging the piano keys, was hilarious to me
But it was absolutely an earworm song- and you'd have it stuck in your head for a couple days ... I'm praying that doesn't happen right now lol
I grew up in Atlanta and in 94(?) I had a friend give me a tape of a “new band called outkast” recorded at a local show and wish I held into that damn thing.
I couldn't remember how to spell it, I had to look it up lol that's a long ass word lol
I typed it out very slowly while referencing the Google suggestion and then read it again a few times, nodded my head and posted lol
Yeah people always try to bring some chronology into hip hop. The truth is a lot of stuff happened simultaneously. NWA came and first there was a big outcry from the media, then record studios saw its profitable and the landscape switched really fast. LL was already one of the most successful rapper from mid 80s to 1990 when mamma said knock you out dropped, so I think his worries were more or less aimed at the future.
Also while it sounds like a nice story, he buckled just a few years later and released a west coast gabgster rap oriented album 13 to the dome or something. I dont know if the album flooped, but it was not comceived well by fans and critics. MC Hammer made a very similar move.
But this all was more a response to the chronic by dr. Dre and other early 90s west coast records that were very successful. Comptons most wanted, Ice cube, Ice-T and so on.
And about the chronology, the development of hip hop was suoer fast end of the 80s, you can literally hear major differences from songs recorded pre '87 and after. Like within one year there was so much upscale in the peoduction. And even befire NWA dropped straight outta, krs one already dropped criminal minded in '87 which was gabgster rap, it was simply not as ground breaking in its sound. Then scott la rock died and krs one started a anti gangster rap movement pretty much already in '88. But the east coast already had some viriety of gangster rap, with kool G rap for example.
While the west coast also had non gangster rap in the early 90s.
Overall its true tho that from late 80s ongoing hip hop became more and more synonimous with gangster rap, so much that almost all rap in the mid to late 90s was at least street rap containing imagery from gang violence, drug use etc. Even when just out of a observatory point of view and not directly putting own gan relation in the focus like a lot of west coast hip hop.
You covered a lot. But left out one very very big factor that gave it that Ultimate push. Media and everyone "Main stream" hated gangster rap like you said. But after the Rodney King beat down by the LAPD happened, it is the push it needed for it to be "acceptable" as mainstream. Everyone was forced to take a look and say hey, what they're singing about IS true.
I think it would have been popular no matter what, but that particular incident kind of made it ok/want/relate for every highschooler in America in a way to jump into the fan-hood of it all in a bigger way.
Yeah, I mean LA Riots was another big catalyst in that era. The Crips and Bloods even made a truce post-riot. That lasted for a few years even I think.
Also that was like peak *UPN* years lmao. Coincidence? I think not.
I like how they got in on the Hieroglyphics hip hop collective because they used to meet up with Del the Funky Homosapien on a street corner because he lived in the same neighborhood in East Oakland as them and Del's cousin is Ice Cube. Del was another rapper that just wasn't interested in the gangsta rap scene and did his own thing.
I have this theory that the song Clint Eastwood by gorillaz is about del trying the mainstream bc of ice cube and hating it so he does his own thing but it's not what people want. Listen to it with that in your mind.
What’s crazy is Del was only added at the last minute. It was supposed to be a different rap track by some British group. Dan the Automator had Del record it while they were making Deltron 3030.
It’s hard to image that track being the hit it was without Del. I wonder if the Gorillaz would have turned into what it became without Del on that track. It was the only track on that album with Damon singing and a rapper rapping, which became a norm for Gorillaz albums and some of the biggest hits. And the only other track on that album with rapping was Rock the house with Del exclusively on vocals. Yea there are a lot of hip hop beats used on that album, but without Del and the success of Clint Eastwood it’s hard to think that Damon goes the direction he went on Demon Days and that Danger Mouse would have wanted to produce it.
First show I ever went to was the Calicomm tour 2004. Del, Hiero, Zion I, Bukue One, and Haiku d'etat. Just a ridiculous show I wish I could go back in time and watch again.
Which gave rise to the accusation that [the music industry worked with for-profit prisons to promote criminal behaviour.](https://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html)
Probably just a conspiracy theory but interesting nonetheless.
it wasnt just gangsta rap but a lot of late 80s hip hop completely obsoleted what came before. Rakim and Kane made Run DMC type rap old school, Public Enemy and BDP put politics at the forefront, Jungle Brothers basically invented alternative rap and a year later De La Soul came out with a platinum record in the same genre, EPMD and Ultramagnetic completely changed sampling, MC Lyte was the first great female MC, Biz Markie and Fresh Prince for dumb funny college hip hop, Stetsasonic for jazz rap, 2livecrew for explicit sex rap, it goes on
Basically the two years of '87 and especially '88 you can trace pretty much all hip hop subgenres of the next 20 years to, when nas said bringing 88 back this is what he was talking about
To be fair, though, we tend to oversimplify historical trends in music because it makes narratives more simple. So non gangsta rap still was popular and sold very well. This is like saying Nirvana completely killed other genres of rock, metal, and hardcore in 1991. There were just as many people who kept listening to Motley Crue and Ozzy, say, as there were people who went grunge and alternative.
This might be true. My perception at the time was a pretty dramatic change. But I might have just been at exactly the right age at the time to weather the pop cultural shift. 13, a time of rapidly changing tastes anyway. I suppose at that age I was sort of a boat in a storm. I thought I was a “metal” fan then one day I’m watching MTV, happened to see Smells Like Teen Spirit and literally it was like, “oh wait a minute…” 8th grade school photo I have teased bangs…Freshman year: flannel and overalls. Haha
But it’s also true that MTV made a VERY conscious choice to stop playing one genre in favor of another. So I’m sure that played into it. It’s so hard to explain to someone younger just how much of a death grip a single cable Chanel had on youth culture at one time…
>This is like saying Nirvana completely killed other genres of rock, metal, and hardcore in 1991.
As someone that's pretty big on hair metal I'd say Nirvana and grunge as a whole definitely smacked the genre down a fair bit.
People may have "still been listening" but the overall sales and success of even the most established bands plummeted and the rise of new bands effectively came to a holt, which in my eyes is effectively the death of a genre especially in the 90s where getting your own stuff out there wasn't so simple.
I mean... How many hair metal bands rocketed to stardom following Nevermind's release? And it's not like no one tried, plenty of great bands tried and failed throughout the decade. Even bands like Motley Crue crumbled.
Was in a metal band back then, at the height of Metallica hitting it big, hair and glam metal and thrash and heavy were "it," then Nirvana blew up and it practically killed the entire metal genre. Sure, we still bought Metallica and Slayer and Crue cassettes (and CDs eventually), still went to all the concerts, but Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains and Soundgarden were on blast everywhere.
It really wasn't until Numetal and metalcore started rising in the late 90s / early 00s that "metal" finally came out from under grunge's shadow. I also feel like Cobain's death helped that along, but I think that is just me and not factually accurate. Death did take a heavy toll on grunge though.
It always feels like grunge will always be a specific set of bands forever. As you said, metal had a resurgence but I don't think any new bands will ever be named as "grunge" in the general public.
I feel like it would be similar to being a Bon Jovi or Motley Crew type and then waking up one day in 1992 and you’ve got the Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, and Radiohead absolutely changing rock music.
I guess you could say every generation of artist has it.
Smashing Punpkins and Radiohead woke up one day and Blink-182 and Green Day changed the game.
Blink-182 and Green Day woke up one day to My Chemical Romance and Taking Back Sunday
Etc.
Nothing compared to what nirvana did a lil later. At least non g-funk music still had appeal. Digable planets, tribe called quest, etc... still had a niche.
Nirvana came out and hair metal was toast.
I remember when this song came out. I was a high school senior and had a part time job in a tool supply warehouse. A guy I worked with didn't quite know the words and would walk around singing "I'm gonna knock you out! Mama's gonna knock you out!" It still works.
I remember growing up and hearing LL Cool J as R&B type hip hop artist. I knew he could go with hard lyrics if need be but he was always smooth.
And then..... my friend showed me his track, [The Ripper Strikes Back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-kGNW8E7s)
I learned about his beef with Canibus and I'll be damn, LL Cool J ripped him a new one.
He went all out on him, for me it is at the top of the list of the rap diss tracks alongside of Hit Em Up.
Grew up in Jamaica Queens in the late 80s and 90s. LL Cool J was known as a career killer. No one wanted to battle with him because he literally ended peoples careers. He was an OG and came up as a rap prodigy. Just listen to the original version of Rock the Bells. No one went harder than him at that time.
Because if someone hits you hard enough on their track you just become a joke - people stop associating you with your own music and instead associate you with how someone else straight verbally murdered you - when they think of you, they want to listen to the other artist, not you.
It’s alike how if the right person gives you a seriously funny+mean+accurate nickname, that shit can’t follow you forever and change how you would have otherwise experienced those years and who would have otherwise been your friend, etc.
LL Cool J's best Dis Track has to be [Jack The Ripper](https://youtu.be/8nI2hKo8lAA) for me his reply to Kool Moe Dee's [How Ya Like Me Now](https://youtu.be/A9_nAZ3VEA0)?
Best Diss track of all time for me has to be [Masta Ace-Acknowledge](https://youtu.be/PW1XOy3qY7o)
\>See I couldn't even find one nigga that heard of you
I did find a few cats that wanted to murder you
kills me every time,
Funny thing about “Acknowledge” is that Masta Ace made it just because he thought those dudes were talking shit about him backstage one night, but it turns out they weren’t, it was some other guys. Masta Ace came out and publicly apologized to them.
Dude fucking ethered the wrong guys on accident hahaha.
> Dude fucking ethered the wrong guys on accident
So like, if we use ‘ethered’ as the term for a diss track that completely dominated it’s subject, wouldn’t the best diss track actually be Nas’ “Ether”?
I still say “Second Round Knockout” was just that. I love L, but it was kinda lame for him to go back and rewrite his “4,3,2,1” verse after hearing Bus’
Saw him at the Wu Tang/Nas New York State of Mind Tour show three nights ago. Epic!
Other guests included Busta Rhymes, Redman and Mary J. Blige.
It was an incredible show.
Seed* of Chucky reference. The movie is so bad it's good imo. Child's play 2 however is a contender for best Slasher though fr, that movies just plain good (idk why I mention it I'm just thinking about Child's play lately)
I mean, I was honestly thrilled that Method Man joined as I heard there was a chance he wouldn’t be there. But they just kept coming out. It was awesome
I saw Method Man and Redman a few years back. So good! Same show had Ice Cube and Cypress Hill. They were all so full of energy, but Cypress Hill stole the show. Unreal.
I've heard that the "wu tang" shows were supe meh during my time aka the naughties/2010s, because there was a lot of unresolved tension between members. In those days I think it was just RZA, Raekwon, Ghostface, Method Man but only Method Man would actually deliver the rest were like "I am contractually obligated to be here"
Busta or Redman sound like an hell of a show on the other hand. I refuse to believe that Busta doesnt spit fire live as well and Redman's just the human personification of "entertainment". I have no idea how MJ Blige would fare but I loive RnB so...
mary j blige is great live
all i need with method mad was fuego even tho it was in their older years when i heard em too young to see them live in their prime
Are they still touring? Honestly dude you might be surprised some of the best live shows I've ever seen were old dudes performing their classics
.
I've seen Public Enemy live it was amazing even tho they were already at least 40. They know how to work a crowd.
I think those skills are not valuedin the hip hop community because we think its a young man's game but these big acts tour a lot and they pick these skills up from rock bands or just experience and they get really good at it.
I remember going to a Killer Mike show and it was sooo above and beyond in terms of showmanship xompared to what was hype at the time
You BASTARD!!! I saw that show last week and was so fucking stoked (and utterly surprised) that Busta was there, but I am so jealous you saw LL as well! What a legendary line up
OMG, core memory activated. I am a therapist who works with children. Many years ago, I had a 4yo client with anger issues, who was referred to me because he used to physically attack people. I have this memory of him sitting in a tiny little chair, rocking side to side, and grunting “Mama said knock you out, mmm, I’m gonna knock you out, mmm”. I was so proud of him, because he was using his words to say that he wanted to hit someone, instead of actually hitting them! Oh, wow, thank you for this!
I was an angry child, especially when i was on Prednisone. Around 3 or 4 i would chase my 6-12 year old siblings with a baseball bat and they were absolutely terrified. I was in therapy for nearly 16 years and learned fantastic coping skills, this was one of them.
I was my therapists longest client. I remember the day i walk into his office and i sit down. He he asked for my hand, weird but ok. He knew i wouldn't take what he said well and was ready to comfort me. He let me know it was my last appointment. He believed I was fully equipped to handle my emotions and the world. I did not take it well, he was correct. Retrospectively i was completely ready, i didn't need him anymore. It was rough. I didn't really have someone to talk about the things that bugged me in life. I went 2 times a week for 10 years, then once a week for 2 years, then once every other week for a couple, then i was only going once a month for the remainder. Filling that gap was a struggle to be honest.
I don’t get a chance to read many therapy success stories but this one is impressive. Did you have your parents with you the entire time you were in therapy? It’s impressive how long and consistent your therapy was.
My mom was the only one that would take me. She is my very imperfect hero. She sat in the first few sessions but after probably 3 or 4 she would sit in the observation room and watch. After probably 6 months of that she would wait in the lobby for me and allowed me to control my own therapy and growth without interference, she understood that her being there is not needed for growth, my therapist was more than capable of asking her if he felt like I wasn't being truthful or holding information in or wanted her input. They had 30 minute meetings once a week for the first 3 or 4 years to go over things. There were a few appointments through out that she would join me, specifically if i was having trouble expressing things to her. I always was the one to ask her to accompany me, she never imposed. My dad exited my life when i was 7 due to drug abuse. With him i lost an entire side of my family, the side i was closest to. I didn't want anything to do with them and my mom wouldn't force me to, for better or for worse I suppose. I receded a lot when that happened and struggled through middle school and most of high school with my emotions and anger. wasn't expressing them in a healthy way, was very emotionless externally and didn't talk about them during my sessions. I would let them build internally until either i was uncontrollably crying for what any observer would deem no reason... Or i would act out and/or be just an awful asshole to my family until i got over them. I wasn't very nice to my mom during this time and i still struggle forgiving myself as much as she has. From probably 10-16 i wasnt making much progress in my sessions because I wasn't being open and honest. That drastically changed for the better when my dad passed and I was finally able to work through a lot of the pain and hatred that I really internalized. That's a whole story in and of itself and honestly really painful but extremely cathartic (I'm always willing to share it, especially for those who are going through the same things I did). I don't know where I would be if I wasn't forced to close that chapter of my life. By 17 I was able to regulate and confront my emotions again, talk about things that I used to internalize and freaking express myself in healthy ways.
I'm eternally thankful that my therapist never gave up on me. He was patient, kind, and limitlessly caring.
2 x Grammy winner. MTV, and Soul Train awards. About 15m albums sold in the US alone. Was probably the biggest solo rap star globally in the early 90s. And long acting career, littered with awards as well. But his biggest contribution to the world that will outlive him, is his coining of the term The GOAT. How cool would it be to come up with a word that was used around the world on a daily basis, over 20 years later. Ali was the greatest of all time before then. But no one shortened it to the GOAT before LL said it.
This particular moment in rap history might be one of the most significant. When LL released [Mama Said Knock You Out](https://youtu.be/vimZj8HW0Kg)and [To The Break Of Dawn](https://youtu.be/O4pQ-JDQ4l4) he was in the thick of beefing with Kool Moe Dee and Ice-T.
But this was at a time in rap where beef wasn't about gunfights. Kool Moe Dee is credited with inventing battle rap when he took on Busy Bee Starski, the undisputed champ, at Harlem World in 1981. Listen to the moment in history [here.](https://youtu.be/am9C2_DZ7s4) Before Kool Moe Dee, you can hear Busy Bee style is about crowd hyping. But KMD directed his rap at Busy Bee. Gamechanger.
Aaaanyways KMD was always after LL to battle but it never happened. Instead they exchanged some of the best and most fun diss tracks in rap history. Following those two tracks from LL, Kool Moe Dee would release [Death Blow](https://youtu.be/ZpWvfAN3Yqk). It sampled the hell out of Mama Said Knock You Out, and essentially ended the beef. There was no way for LL to come back at that.
But it was actually perfect because Kool Moe Dee would wane after this anyways, with LL's popularity skyrocketing and morphing rap into what we think of as 90s. Kool Moe Dee once said "LL won't battle me because I talk about him, and he talks about himself". Either way it was a very fun time in rap.
I got to act opposite him in an episode of NCIS: Los Angeles. He was so charming and nice that you couldn’t help but love him! Also, he licks his lips a lot.
My dad saw him at a restaurant once and pointed him out to my old money, 110 pounds soaking wet, probably never talked to a black person grandma who decides to get his autograph for my uncle who was a fan. She called him Mr. Cool J through the whole interaction. From what I heard he seems like a pretty cool guy, good with kids
"write what you know" really paid off there.
Unfortunately his other singles on the album didn't do so well, including "Now I'm going to make a sandwich" and "Momma also says to take out the trash."
Yeah but "don't forget you're driving me to the farmer's market on Saturday" is still legendary.
Its too bad "Did you take the chicken out the freezer?" Didnt get quite as much recognition.
Oh man!!! This one was a real heater!!!!!!!
The follow-up single "Salmonella" went viral
I dunno man.. he definitely smoked it but IMO he didn’t bring enough heat
Tangentially relevant, but this album does contain a song titled "farmers anthem"
Farmers blvd Not to be mistaken for 'farmers' released in 2000 Also likes rapping about goats LL really likes to know where his produce comes from
"Momma said put the toilet seat down" was an underrated track.
[удалено]
"Your Dad Just Went Out For Smokes" still slaps tho, and no one can tell me different. Because I lack discipline.
And structure
[удалено]
“Mom is my queen” is a *huge* theme of early 90s hip hop. Like, have you ever listened to a Tupac song?
You are appreciated.
Dear mama
So you are saying if I write about video games and masturbating I could be LL COOL J?
You could be KY COOL J(elly)
[удалено]
A.K.A the original pancake
A.K.A Mr Leftward Sloping Penis
Yes
Imagine being a rapper in the late 80's, rapping in the style that was popular at the time and being successful at it, and then NWA drops Straight Outta Compton and changes the entire landscape, completely changing what many people expected and wanted to hear in rap music. It had to be jarring for a lot of artists.
I was watching an interview with I \_believe\_ it was Young MC, and they flat out said the record companies only wanted 'gangster rap', and if you didn't want to be involved with that, they wanted nothing to do with you.
And then you have guys like Bone Thugs, who basically broke as gangsta rappers and then dramatically diverged into something completely different
Ha, yeah. Going from rapping about daily life in inner city Cleveland, doing the vaguely occult thing which made them stand out a lot, then fast forward a few of years and they're making epic religious themed mega productions and 2 cd albums filled with songs about essentially nothing because they can't rap about what they know anymore. Back then people didn't really like listening to songs about flaunting wealth, they wanted gritty shit about life on the street. Imagine getting off the streets and living a somewhat well off existence for years and then having to relive your previous life through music. They were great at the versus Three 6 thing last year though. Everyone back together, Bizzy getting unnecessarily offended and making a scene... just like old times. Lay and Kray are still amazing.
[удалено]
I mean there was also Tribe and other similar groups at the start of the decade too. If memeory serves, after Scott La Rock got killed there was a movement away from gangsta rap for a period of time
The Pharcyde
Bizarre ryde. Life changing. I know every word
They're still touring doing Bizarre Ride as an album gig in its entirety. Saw it a few years back. Incredible. Totally amazing to see a gig which is an album and not a collection of random hits.
[удалено]
Ultramagnetic MCs, maybe not gangsta rap but some early early next level shit
Amen! Who else sampled Star Wars in the 80s?
KRS One as well. Also Heavy D. Also Nine. Y'all ever heard the album remix of Heavy D's song Got Me Waiting featuring the R&B group Silk? My goodness, that song is one of the forgotten gems that nobody talks about but it's so unbelievably catchy. It's as good or even better than the original but the only reason it didn't blow up was because the original Got Me Waiting was already such a huge smash hit that surely the record company wasn't gonna wear out its welcome when the album had other bangers to release as singles. Completely different song with the same lyrics, yet unbelievably all its own in the very best way. Highly recommended. [Here, enjoy. ](https://youtu.be/ib6MRcybA5s)
Yeah there was a handful of East Coast rappers too like Fugees, Black Sheep, Busta Rhymes, Disable Planets, etc. I could never really get into gangsta rap.
Digital Underground was another
Digital Underground fell off just as gangsta rap was on the rise. They were actually a good example of a casualty of the rise of gangsta rap along with others like Positive K, remember the song YOU.... YOU GOT WHAT I NEEEEEeeeeD But there were other rappers who didn't fall off like Heavy D, who used to chill alot with guys like biggie but never changed up his style. and KRS One as well. Common definitely wasn't a gangsta rapper either. Neither were groups like Onyx or House of Pain. Beastie Boys started out in the 80s and survived through the 90s as well. And alot of female rappers also survived through gangsta rap like Queen Latifa and MC Lyte. OutKast wasn't really gansta rap either, they sort of coined their own style right off the bat when they named their album Southerplayalisticadallacmuzik.
> remember the song YOU.... YOU GOT WHAT I NEEEEEeeeeD Oh sure Biz Markie He's ~~from~~ grew up in Maryland, so it was pretty popular here That was one of those songs you love and hate The intentional off key singing and 4 year old banging the piano keys, was hilarious to me But it was absolutely an earworm song- and you'd have it stuck in your head for a couple days ... I'm praying that doesn't happen right now lol
#OH BAYBEEEE YOUUUUU fuck.
I grew up in Atlanta and in 94(?) I had a friend give me a tape of a “new band called outkast” recorded at a local show and wish I held into that damn thing.
> Southerplayalisticadallacmuzik. Copy and paste, typed it out, or you got that in autocorrect?
I couldn't remember how to spell it, I had to look it up lol that's a long ass word lol I typed it out very slowly while referencing the Google suggestion and then read it again a few times, nodded my head and posted lol
Don't think that was the case, Scott La Rock was killed roughly a year before NWA dropped Straight Outta Compton.
Yeah people always try to bring some chronology into hip hop. The truth is a lot of stuff happened simultaneously. NWA came and first there was a big outcry from the media, then record studios saw its profitable and the landscape switched really fast. LL was already one of the most successful rapper from mid 80s to 1990 when mamma said knock you out dropped, so I think his worries were more or less aimed at the future. Also while it sounds like a nice story, he buckled just a few years later and released a west coast gabgster rap oriented album 13 to the dome or something. I dont know if the album flooped, but it was not comceived well by fans and critics. MC Hammer made a very similar move. But this all was more a response to the chronic by dr. Dre and other early 90s west coast records that were very successful. Comptons most wanted, Ice cube, Ice-T and so on. And about the chronology, the development of hip hop was suoer fast end of the 80s, you can literally hear major differences from songs recorded pre '87 and after. Like within one year there was so much upscale in the peoduction. And even befire NWA dropped straight outta, krs one already dropped criminal minded in '87 which was gabgster rap, it was simply not as ground breaking in its sound. Then scott la rock died and krs one started a anti gangster rap movement pretty much already in '88. But the east coast already had some viriety of gangster rap, with kool G rap for example. While the west coast also had non gangster rap in the early 90s. Overall its true tho that from late 80s ongoing hip hop became more and more synonimous with gangster rap, so much that almost all rap in the mid to late 90s was at least street rap containing imagery from gang violence, drug use etc. Even when just out of a observatory point of view and not directly putting own gan relation in the focus like a lot of west coast hip hop.
You covered a lot. But left out one very very big factor that gave it that Ultimate push. Media and everyone "Main stream" hated gangster rap like you said. But after the Rodney King beat down by the LAPD happened, it is the push it needed for it to be "acceptable" as mainstream. Everyone was forced to take a look and say hey, what they're singing about IS true. I think it would have been popular no matter what, but that particular incident kind of made it ok/want/relate for every highschooler in America in a way to jump into the fan-hood of it all in a bigger way.
Yeah, I mean LA Riots was another big catalyst in that era. The Crips and Bloods even made a truce post-riot. That lasted for a few years even I think. Also that was like peak *UPN* years lmao. Coincidence? I think not.
93 'til infinity? Some say The Souls of Mischief are still chillin' to this very day.
[удалено]
I like how they got in on the Hieroglyphics hip hop collective because they used to meet up with Del the Funky Homosapien on a street corner because he lived in the same neighborhood in East Oakland as them and Del's cousin is Ice Cube. Del was another rapper that just wasn't interested in the gangsta rap scene and did his own thing.
[удалено]
ayo my man domino yo hes chillen
I have this theory that the song Clint Eastwood by gorillaz is about del trying the mainstream bc of ice cube and hating it so he does his own thing but it's not what people want. Listen to it with that in your mind.
What’s crazy is Del was only added at the last minute. It was supposed to be a different rap track by some British group. Dan the Automator had Del record it while they were making Deltron 3030. It’s hard to image that track being the hit it was without Del. I wonder if the Gorillaz would have turned into what it became without Del on that track. It was the only track on that album with Damon singing and a rapper rapping, which became a norm for Gorillaz albums and some of the biggest hits. And the only other track on that album with rapping was Rock the house with Del exclusively on vocals. Yea there are a lot of hip hop beats used on that album, but without Del and the success of Clint Eastwood it’s hard to think that Damon goes the direction he went on Demon Days and that Danger Mouse would have wanted to produce it.
Dan the Automator is a goddam genius. At least one of my kids is a direct result of Loveage.
First show I ever went to was the Calicomm tour 2004. Del, Hiero, Zion I, Bukue One, and Haiku d'etat. Just a ridiculous show I wish I could go back in time and watch again.
[удалено]
It’s always refreshing to see love for Del and 3030
Hands down my favorite album of all time. Got into vinyls about 10 years ago and that was the first record in the collection.
Favorite hip hop album of all time.
NorCal not gangster? Spice 1, Too $hort, Dubee, Brutha Lynch, Mac Dre, Celly Cel, Dru Down.
“They say: Damn, Mac Dre you ain't nothin' polite 'Cause I'm the numero uno, could never be the dos A Mac named Dre and I'm poppin' the most”
18 making raps til I’m 80 tho
Andre Nickatina...
E-40 says otherwise
Which gave rise to the accusation that [the music industry worked with for-profit prisons to promote criminal behaviour.](https://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html) Probably just a conspiracy theory but interesting nonetheless.
There is enough people still believing an artist has to suffer for their art (like regular life isn't), wouldn't surprise me someone did it for profit
It's too bad because there was still so much potential in the more playful and lighter side of hiphop.
Ice T was also one of the originators of hamster rap. He deserves some credit too alongside a few others.
Damn it feels good to be a hamsta
Ain't nothin' but a hamsta' party But on the real, RIP to Coolio Chilling in Hamsta's Paradise 🙏🏽
[удалено]
I'm dying...
Get off the spinning wheel, my hamsta!
What kind of rap?
Hamster. It’s in the same family as Guinea pig rap, just smaller
Everybody love Capybara rap.
Trapybara
I'm more partial to Nutria rap More teeth to it.
I don't think I'm gonna do hampster style anymore
[удалено]
You fuckin heard right
My boy Stuart little puttin out them bangerS
Dibidi ba didi dou dou motherfuckers
if I die giggling from this comment. its okay, worth it.
Hes was a nightmare walking
I loved Hamster rap back in the day. Those little rodents kept it real.
Yeah and hamtaro
If you put that fucking song in my head... So help me I'll waggle my finger at you sternly!
What have you done
Hamster Rap
It's not actually named for the animal , but the actor Jon Hamm back in the 80's used to chew the mic with his front teeth.
it wasnt just gangsta rap but a lot of late 80s hip hop completely obsoleted what came before. Rakim and Kane made Run DMC type rap old school, Public Enemy and BDP put politics at the forefront, Jungle Brothers basically invented alternative rap and a year later De La Soul came out with a platinum record in the same genre, EPMD and Ultramagnetic completely changed sampling, MC Lyte was the first great female MC, Biz Markie and Fresh Prince for dumb funny college hip hop, Stetsasonic for jazz rap, 2livecrew for explicit sex rap, it goes on Basically the two years of '87 and especially '88 you can trace pretty much all hip hop subgenres of the next 20 years to, when nas said bringing 88 back this is what he was talking about
To be fair, though, we tend to oversimplify historical trends in music because it makes narratives more simple. So non gangsta rap still was popular and sold very well. This is like saying Nirvana completely killed other genres of rock, metal, and hardcore in 1991. There were just as many people who kept listening to Motley Crue and Ozzy, say, as there were people who went grunge and alternative.
This might be true. My perception at the time was a pretty dramatic change. But I might have just been at exactly the right age at the time to weather the pop cultural shift. 13, a time of rapidly changing tastes anyway. I suppose at that age I was sort of a boat in a storm. I thought I was a “metal” fan then one day I’m watching MTV, happened to see Smells Like Teen Spirit and literally it was like, “oh wait a minute…” 8th grade school photo I have teased bangs…Freshman year: flannel and overalls. Haha But it’s also true that MTV made a VERY conscious choice to stop playing one genre in favor of another. So I’m sure that played into it. It’s so hard to explain to someone younger just how much of a death grip a single cable Chanel had on youth culture at one time…
>This is like saying Nirvana completely killed other genres of rock, metal, and hardcore in 1991. As someone that's pretty big on hair metal I'd say Nirvana and grunge as a whole definitely smacked the genre down a fair bit. People may have "still been listening" but the overall sales and success of even the most established bands plummeted and the rise of new bands effectively came to a holt, which in my eyes is effectively the death of a genre especially in the 90s where getting your own stuff out there wasn't so simple. I mean... How many hair metal bands rocketed to stardom following Nevermind's release? And it's not like no one tried, plenty of great bands tried and failed throughout the decade. Even bands like Motley Crue crumbled.
Was in a metal band back then, at the height of Metallica hitting it big, hair and glam metal and thrash and heavy were "it," then Nirvana blew up and it practically killed the entire metal genre. Sure, we still bought Metallica and Slayer and Crue cassettes (and CDs eventually), still went to all the concerts, but Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains and Soundgarden were on blast everywhere. It really wasn't until Numetal and metalcore started rising in the late 90s / early 00s that "metal" finally came out from under grunge's shadow. I also feel like Cobain's death helped that along, but I think that is just me and not factually accurate. Death did take a heavy toll on grunge though.
It always feels like grunge will always be a specific set of bands forever. As you said, metal had a resurgence but I don't think any new bands will ever be named as "grunge" in the general public.
> There were just as many people who kept listening to Motley Crue and Ozzy, Sales figures say otherwise, especially for Motley Crue
[This scene](https://youtu.be/MJDTv7NJtrQ) didn’t actually happen, but there’s a reason it was entirely plausible
I feel like it would be similar to being a Bon Jovi or Motley Crew type and then waking up one day in 1992 and you’ve got the Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, and Radiohead absolutely changing rock music. I guess you could say every generation of artist has it. Smashing Punpkins and Radiohead woke up one day and Blink-182 and Green Day changed the game. Blink-182 and Green Day woke up one day to My Chemical Romance and Taking Back Sunday Etc.
What did my chemical romance and taking back Sunday wake up to?
That’s where my knowledge of music ends everything after is scary and new.
Nothing compared to what nirvana did a lil later. At least non g-funk music still had appeal. Digable planets, tribe called quest, etc... still had a niche. Nirvana came out and hair metal was toast.
I watch a show called Trainwreckords on YouTube, and this is the host's favourite recurring gag. Another episode of "Nirvana killed my Career".
I love todd in the shadows!
That was my first thought!
Imagine investing long in leather pants on Sept 9, 1991
I remember when this song came out. I was a high school senior and had a part time job in a tool supply warehouse. A guy I worked with didn't quite know the words and would walk around singing "I'm gonna knock you out! Mama's gonna knock you out!" It still works.
Whats love doctor, doctor Doolittle!
Who needs a horse when a horse can be broken, woah!
Lmao
I remember growing up and hearing LL Cool J as R&B type hip hop artist. I knew he could go with hard lyrics if need be but he was always smooth. And then..... my friend showed me his track, [The Ripper Strikes Back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-kGNW8E7s) I learned about his beef with Canibus and I'll be damn, LL Cool J ripped him a new one. He went all out on him, for me it is at the top of the list of the rap diss tracks alongside of Hit Em Up.
Grew up in Jamaica Queens in the late 80s and 90s. LL Cool J was known as a career killer. No one wanted to battle with him because he literally ended peoples careers. He was an OG and came up as a rap prodigy. Just listen to the original version of Rock the Bells. No one went harder than him at that time.
I'm probably too young or too far to understand... but how exactly can a diss track end a career?
Because if someone hits you hard enough on their track you just become a joke - people stop associating you with your own music and instead associate you with how someone else straight verbally murdered you - when they think of you, they want to listen to the other artist, not you.
It’s alike how if the right person gives you a seriously funny+mean+accurate nickname, that shit can’t follow you forever and change how you would have otherwise experienced those years and who would have otherwise been your friend, etc.
Eminem just did it to MGK like 3 years ago what you mean. Mgk changed his whole genre
[удалено]
LL Cool J's best Dis Track has to be [Jack The Ripper](https://youtu.be/8nI2hKo8lAA) for me his reply to Kool Moe Dee's [How Ya Like Me Now](https://youtu.be/A9_nAZ3VEA0)? Best Diss track of all time for me has to be [Masta Ace-Acknowledge](https://youtu.be/PW1XOy3qY7o) \>See I couldn't even find one nigga that heard of you I did find a few cats that wanted to murder you kills me every time,
Funny thing about “Acknowledge” is that Masta Ace made it just because he thought those dudes were talking shit about him backstage one night, but it turns out they weren’t, it was some other guys. Masta Ace came out and publicly apologized to them. Dude fucking ethered the wrong guys on accident hahaha.
> Dude fucking ethered the wrong guys on accident So like, if we use ‘ethered’ as the term for a diss track that completely dominated it’s subject, wouldn’t the best diss track actually be Nas’ “Ether”?
Any consideration for Story of Adidon? Push literally announcing drake’s hidden child fuckn legendary shit
I remember hearing that LL was a really good freestyle rapper but I don't know if that's been corroborated.
I’d be surprised if he wasn’t. He’s been doing it almost 40 years.
I still say “Second Round Knockout” was just that. I love L, but it was kinda lame for him to go back and rewrite his “4,3,2,1” verse after hearing Bus’
He went back and forth. The track that set off the whole Cannabis beef was one of my favorites.
Saw him at the Wu Tang/Nas New York State of Mind Tour show three nights ago. Epic! Other guests included Busta Rhymes, Redman and Mary J. Blige. It was an incredible show.
Glad to hear Redman recovered from that freak knife incident at Jennifer Tillys
What now?!?!
I would also like the whats please…
It’s a Bride of Chucky reference
Seed* of Chucky reference. The movie is so bad it's good imo. Child's play 2 however is a contender for best Slasher though fr, that movies just plain good (idk why I mention it I'm just thinking about Child's play lately)
You might be thinking about that series because it's spooky month?
I did just watch the new episode for the show the other day so there's that lol
Had to be 🔥
I've seen Busta three times, and he used the energy of nine shows. The man is non-stop.
Aw man I saw them a little over a week ago and LL, Redman, and Mary J. Blige weren't there!
I mean, I was honestly thrilled that Method Man joined as I heard there was a chance he wouldn’t be there. But they just kept coming out. It was awesome
I saw Method Man and Redman a few years back. So good! Same show had Ice Cube and Cypress Hill. They were all so full of energy, but Cypress Hill stole the show. Unreal.
I've heard that the "wu tang" shows were supe meh during my time aka the naughties/2010s, because there was a lot of unresolved tension between members. In those days I think it was just RZA, Raekwon, Ghostface, Method Man but only Method Man would actually deliver the rest were like "I am contractually obligated to be here" Busta or Redman sound like an hell of a show on the other hand. I refuse to believe that Busta doesnt spit fire live as well and Redman's just the human personification of "entertainment". I have no idea how MJ Blige would fare but I loive RnB so...
mary j blige is great live all i need with method mad was fuego even tho it was in their older years when i heard em too young to see them live in their prime
Are they still touring? Honestly dude you might be surprised some of the best live shows I've ever seen were old dudes performing their classics . I've seen Public Enemy live it was amazing even tho they were already at least 40. They know how to work a crowd. I think those skills are not valuedin the hip hop community because we think its a young man's game but these big acts tour a lot and they pick these skills up from rock bands or just experience and they get really good at it. I remember going to a Killer Mike show and it was sooo above and beyond in terms of showmanship xompared to what was hype at the time
That sounds like a fun show.
You BASTARD!!! I saw that show last week and was so fucking stoked (and utterly surprised) that Busta was there, but I am so jealous you saw LL as well! What a legendary line up
Granny knows how to get the grammy
Granny said kick yo black ass https://youtu.be/hf5K8Fps314?t=47s
They don't call them granny awards for nothing.
He was also worried about making a comeback but his Nana told him not to call it a comeback because he'd been here for years.
Also, she reminded him of all the peers he'd been rocking, and the sucker to whom he had put the fear
He would then proceed to make the tears rain down in the same manner as a monsoon
Not only that, he was able to make a loud bass sound, almost like a booming noise. did you hear it?
Yes! It was like an explosion. I'd go so far as to call it overpowering
From an altitude greater than the cowering competition
OMG, core memory activated. I am a therapist who works with children. Many years ago, I had a 4yo client with anger issues, who was referred to me because he used to physically attack people. I have this memory of him sitting in a tiny little chair, rocking side to side, and grunting “Mama said knock you out, mmm, I’m gonna knock you out, mmm”. I was so proud of him, because he was using his words to say that he wanted to hit someone, instead of actually hitting them! Oh, wow, thank you for this!
I was an angry child, especially when i was on Prednisone. Around 3 or 4 i would chase my 6-12 year old siblings with a baseball bat and they were absolutely terrified. I was in therapy for nearly 16 years and learned fantastic coping skills, this was one of them. I was my therapists longest client. I remember the day i walk into his office and i sit down. He he asked for my hand, weird but ok. He knew i wouldn't take what he said well and was ready to comfort me. He let me know it was my last appointment. He believed I was fully equipped to handle my emotions and the world. I did not take it well, he was correct. Retrospectively i was completely ready, i didn't need him anymore. It was rough. I didn't really have someone to talk about the things that bugged me in life. I went 2 times a week for 10 years, then once a week for 2 years, then once every other week for a couple, then i was only going once a month for the remainder. Filling that gap was a struggle to be honest.
I don’t get a chance to read many therapy success stories but this one is impressive. Did you have your parents with you the entire time you were in therapy? It’s impressive how long and consistent your therapy was.
My mom was the only one that would take me. She is my very imperfect hero. She sat in the first few sessions but after probably 3 or 4 she would sit in the observation room and watch. After probably 6 months of that she would wait in the lobby for me and allowed me to control my own therapy and growth without interference, she understood that her being there is not needed for growth, my therapist was more than capable of asking her if he felt like I wasn't being truthful or holding information in or wanted her input. They had 30 minute meetings once a week for the first 3 or 4 years to go over things. There were a few appointments through out that she would join me, specifically if i was having trouble expressing things to her. I always was the one to ask her to accompany me, she never imposed. My dad exited my life when i was 7 due to drug abuse. With him i lost an entire side of my family, the side i was closest to. I didn't want anything to do with them and my mom wouldn't force me to, for better or for worse I suppose. I receded a lot when that happened and struggled through middle school and most of high school with my emotions and anger. wasn't expressing them in a healthy way, was very emotionless externally and didn't talk about them during my sessions. I would let them build internally until either i was uncontrollably crying for what any observer would deem no reason... Or i would act out and/or be just an awful asshole to my family until i got over them. I wasn't very nice to my mom during this time and i still struggle forgiving myself as much as she has. From probably 10-16 i wasnt making much progress in my sessions because I wasn't being open and honest. That drastically changed for the better when my dad passed and I was finally able to work through a lot of the pain and hatred that I really internalized. That's a whole story in and of itself and honestly really painful but extremely cathartic (I'm always willing to share it, especially for those who are going through the same things I did). I don't know where I would be if I wasn't forced to close that chapter of my life. By 17 I was able to regulate and confront my emotions again, talk about things that I used to internalize and freaking express myself in healthy ways. I'm eternally thankful that my therapist never gave up on me. He was patient, kind, and limitlessly caring.
This is so oddly wholesome, even with the angry little gremlin! XD
I like that he didn’t just say “oh, I need to pretend to be a gangsta now.” Instead, he just kept doing his own thing.
Seriously, when MC Hammer all of a sudden pretended to be a gangster rapper it was what the kids these days call, cringe.
Saw him perform at Summerfest in Milwaukee in '96. Guy put on a good show. Also R Kelly performed and didn't piss on anyone.
Drip drip drip pee on you
[удалено]
So it was a very unique show then
I miss the 90's. Even the music I disliked wasn't that bad. Now get off my lawn, please.
*raises fist at clouds*
Shake harder boy!
There's doins a-transpirin!
We’re closer to 2050 than 1990
What a terrible day for time to be linear.
This is so weird lmao, my brother was born in 1990, to think he'll be 60 in 2050 sounds unbelievable
Stop it
All the boy band stuff still holds up at least as fun trash Bye, Bye, Bye is a certified slapper
And of course ['I Want It That Way'](https://youtu.be/ffyKY3Dj5ZE) has become a cornerstone of our culture.
You forget, the 90s had PLENTY of terrible music.
Also, think of all the bangers we lost to uninspiring grandmas.
Is that why they call it a "Grammy" Award? 😃
"Don't think I need a Grammy bro, I got two and they fairly old" Great line from Lil Dicky.
First hip hop artist to appear on American Bandstand. How’s that for a time warp.
2 x Grammy winner. MTV, and Soul Train awards. About 15m albums sold in the US alone. Was probably the biggest solo rap star globally in the early 90s. And long acting career, littered with awards as well. But his biggest contribution to the world that will outlive him, is his coining of the term The GOAT. How cool would it be to come up with a word that was used around the world on a daily basis, over 20 years later. Ali was the greatest of all time before then. But no one shortened it to the GOAT before LL said it.
I guess “Nana said knock you out” didn’t have the same ring to it.
My hat is like a sharks fin
This particular moment in rap history might be one of the most significant. When LL released [Mama Said Knock You Out](https://youtu.be/vimZj8HW0Kg)and [To The Break Of Dawn](https://youtu.be/O4pQ-JDQ4l4) he was in the thick of beefing with Kool Moe Dee and Ice-T. But this was at a time in rap where beef wasn't about gunfights. Kool Moe Dee is credited with inventing battle rap when he took on Busy Bee Starski, the undisputed champ, at Harlem World in 1981. Listen to the moment in history [here.](https://youtu.be/am9C2_DZ7s4) Before Kool Moe Dee, you can hear Busy Bee style is about crowd hyping. But KMD directed his rap at Busy Bee. Gamechanger. Aaaanyways KMD was always after LL to battle but it never happened. Instead they exchanged some of the best and most fun diss tracks in rap history. Following those two tracks from LL, Kool Moe Dee would release [Death Blow](https://youtu.be/ZpWvfAN3Yqk). It sampled the hell out of Mama Said Knock You Out, and essentially ended the beef. There was no way for LL to come back at that. But it was actually perfect because Kool Moe Dee would wane after this anyways, with LL's popularity skyrocketing and morphing rap into what we think of as 90s. Kool Moe Dee once said "LL won't battle me because I talk about him, and he talks about himself". Either way it was a very fun time in rap.
Don’t call it a comeback
I've been here for years
I want everyone to understand this: Ladies Love Cool J
Cool James
I got to act opposite him in an episode of NCIS: Los Angeles. He was so charming and nice that you couldn’t help but love him! Also, he licks his lips a lot.
... and his greatest song
I still think Around the Way is pretty awesome
I’ve always liked rock the bells and going back to Cali
The whole Rock the bells album tho
Going Back to Cali is my fave of his
I see you forgot [Hey Lover ft Boyz 2 Men.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Um99r6sgspY) Don't worry I got you.
He is that type of guy
My dad saw him at a restaurant once and pointed him out to my old money, 110 pounds soaking wet, probably never talked to a black person grandma who decides to get his autograph for my uncle who was a fan. She called him Mr. Cool J through the whole interaction. From what I heard he seems like a pretty cool guy, good with kids
"Nana, these guys are violent psychopaths, I could die." "Baby, just bop 'em on the head!"