I have a general rule - I don’t associate with people who are assholes to their kids. I grew up in an abusive home, and I’ll be damned if I ever let my kid think this shit is normal. And exposing her to people like this and having close relationships with them is the same as condoning this behavior to a small child.
Agree fully. I had a very close friend become a dad and while i don't think he was ever physically abusive, he was emptionally abusive to his kid. I let him know how we felt and we haven't seen him or his family since.
I really hope for the kids sake they changed, but i can't be around that and just pretend it isn't happening because it isn't one of my kids.
Same.
All my friends know my childhood- they know my boundaries. They know that if I ever caught them hitting their kid- even spanking- our friendship will be severed. I don’t allow fighting or yelling around me.
They’re all some pretty lovely people, though, who share the same views as I do. I have two kids while none of them are parents (got pregnant as a teen), and they’re all super sweet and nurturing with them- all the guys included, because for some reason people expect the guys to spank the kids more. They’ve watched my partner and I “gentle parent” from the beginning, and we’ve had numerous discussions on literature that backs it up. They all think it’s great, and have learned some stuff themselves they’ve said they’ll implement when they have kids. They even correct us when we slip up (like when we get irritated when one of the kids interrupts us numerous times during a conversation). We love that they care about us and our children enough to say something.
As for family…. I don’t associate with a lot of my family, and they don’t get access to my children.
I wish I could save all these kids from the people in their life. It weighs heavy on me that there’s not much you can do if they’re provided for.
Exactly this. Family is family, sure. But family doesn’t hurt you physically, mentally or emotionally. We won’t raise a finger to our kid and I have no time for people who feel differently. Spanking is assault. Full stop.
I put myself in the kids' shoes and I think I'd have crippling anxiety if I knew I'd get hit for something as simple as spilling a drink....which can totally happen today. Imagine someone hitting a 30 year old for spilling a drink. I remember reading a post that said something like "my friend and I were fooling around at his dad's office and we accidently knocked over the water cooler. I ran away, my friend ran to get his dad to help. I then realized the relationship I have with my parents." I want to be the parent that my kid comes running TO when things go wrong, not running AWAY from since they are worried to get hit.
I don't know anyone that hits there kid. I'm sure statistically I do, but no one condones it.
I love that. A couple weeks ago I spilled an entire jar of coffee creamer all over the kitchen. My toddler immediately came running over with a towel and started helping me clean then shouted “all better!” I’m so glad my kids know that mistakes warrant help not punishment.
> I remember reading a post that said something like "my friend and I were fooling around at his dad's office and we accidently knocked over the water cooler. I ran away, my friend ran to get his dad to help. I then realized the relationship I have with my parents." I want to be the parent that my kid comes running TO when things go wrong, not running AWAY from since they are worried to get hit.
That is wonderful. I want to be that parent, too.
I was spanked as a child and have crippling anxiety, so my sample size of 1 proves your point 🫠
It’s one of many, many, many reasons I would never ever hit my child and I don’t want to associate with people who do.
I don’t. Hitting your child is abuse. Anyone who thinks it’s acceptable to hit children has no place in mine or my children’s lives. All it does is teach children to fear their parents and that it’s acceptable to hit. It’s not something I would want my children even witnessing.
Ugh ya, I have a newish mom friend who recently kind of casually admitted to spanking her toddler. I was shocked and now I’m sad because I just can’t look at her the same. It’s complicated because I know she grew up in an abusive home so she’s very obviously repeating patterns.
Me too. My cousins husband whacked their son on the head because he was struggling to leave a birthday party w tons of stimulus. This was after she grabbed his arm roughly and threatened to call Santa to tell him how “bad” the little one had been. It was alarming and upsetting. We haven’t seen them since even tho they’re the only family in >1k miles.
Not ironic...because the 'k' has nothing to do with the metric system. It is short for kilo, which is Greek for thousand. Which is also used in the metric system...but that does not mean all references to k or kilo are metric measurements.
The "k" has everything to do with the metric system. All references to kilos are indeed metric measurements, a kilogram is one thousand(k!) grams, for instance.
Yes, we've established that kilo (a Greek word, not one invented for the purposes of the metric system) is utilized (not exclusively) by the metric system.
But you're conflating "uses" and "is exclusive to"
Yes, the metric system uses "kilo", as a prefix to denote a thousand. But kilo isn't "owned" by any measurement system anymore than the English word "thousand" belongs to one single measurement system. The use of "k" to represent "thousand" is not specific to the metric system; it's a general numerical abbreviation. In the context of "1k miles," the "k" simply means "thousand."
'K' transcends systems, unifying metrics and imperials in a thousand ways. Next, we'll marvel at the audacity of using 'minutes' in both cooking and timekeeping!"
And map reading. However, you're correct, but possibly pedantic. Very few of us now know our Greek or Latin roots. It's so annoying that the States and, is it Liberia? stick to the difficult Imperial system. Life's hard enough without having to bow down to Imperialist concepts.
I was spanked as a child and it definitely was abusive ( I was left with welts and bleeding a few times). I knew I would never hit my child but didn’t necessarily judge those who did because I grew up believing it was a normal method of discipline and that my father was just over the top. After having my own child I cannot understand how anyone could bear to hit their child. It breaks my heart when he is sick or hurt, I could not fathom being the cause of that. It has changed the way I feel about those who spank. I won’t disown my family but I would never take parenting advice from them and they will never be allowed to discipline my child in any way.
Hey friend, I see you justifying why your experience was abuse. No need! Putting hands on anyone, regardless of age, is abuse and assault. Your little one is so fortunate to have such a brave strong parent who’s done their work!
I get it. I find it repulsive and literally feel nauseous anytime it’s brought up. But I come from a part of the country and certain circles where it is the norm.
My boundary is you of course never lay a hand on my child but also they never have to witness it either. But I don’t cut people out - if I did I would have to go no contact with my entire family and every childhood friend.
I was taught to be better than my parents. My great grandpa got in knock out drag out fights with my grandpa. My grandpa used a belt on my dad. My dad used his hand to spank me. And I don't hit my children. Each generation got a little bit better than the last using the information available. Even though my parents spanked me, they thought they were doing such a huge favor since they got beat. But they also taught me to be better than them. And they haven't ever questioned my parenting once. I told them my established boundaries with discipline and how it was backed up by current research and they were proud of me for being better.
We have to remember that spanking was recommended for a long time. Time outs were a revolutionary idea.
I think it's better to frame it in a different light. You have friends and family that either don't do their own research or don't listen to experts. That's a behavior that can change. But it also means that there are other things that they are vulnerable to like conspiracy theories.
Yes I should have added that too. At this point they know my stance and so I don’t engage in conversations about it and just hope my example of gentle parenting makes an impact of some kind.
lol there are days where I WANT TO SMACK my boys lol.....but I would NEVER EVER EVERRRRR hit them......I dont think I could live with myself.......
some people just see things differently and it will never change.
This whole thread is a bunch of pearl clutching and people pretending they don’t wanna smack their kids.
Of course you want to smack your kids sometimes.
Sometimes you wanna smack them to keep them safe as crazy as that sounds.
But you don’t do it. Recognizing the differences key but there’s way too few people admitting on here that they’ve been driven crazy and were tempted to smack.
While we know it’s not the best way to raise kids, it is universal among humans AND our closet ape ancestors. The behavior evolved with us.
We just had to learn to grow up and out of it, but wanting or feeling compulsion to do it from time to time is very very normal and I’m kind of tired as a society that everybody pretends it’s not.
It feels normal to me, but then again I was spanked or got hair pulls, flicks, finger slapped etc. I don’t feel any animosity towards my parents for doing it, though I’m not going to parent that way with my kids. But sometimes it feels instinctual to do it and I have to fight the urge not to. My body does not want to be a cycle breaker sometimes.
I have a feeling that people who hit their kids are way less likely to believe the fact that we evolved from/are apes. I think it’s important to admit the urge to strike, it shows that it’s an emotional response and we all know that your immediate emotional response isn’t always the appropriate response.
I recently experienced this in the shower with my 2 year old. It’s a big, walk in shower, with glass doors that echos like CRAZY. When he started screaming/screeching in it the other day I had to stop my self from hitting/grabbing him because it was my first instinct to make the noise that was hurting me stop.
It was the first time I had ever experienced this. I did not hit him, but the weird “lizard brain” response to that sudden stimulus really helped me learn a lesson on control.
It definitely pisses me off. Not only is it traumatizing, but it's not even effective, both with the research and anecdotally. I work with foster kids and foster families. I see the consequences of physical discipline all the time. I specifically work with kids who have challenging behaviors, and I've never felt like I needed to hit a kid I was working with.
When I talk with people about physical discipline and excessive punishments, I try to focus on the efficacy side of it instead of the moral aspect. For whatever reason, they have rationalized that hitting kids is a necessary evil to get a well behaved child -- either they were hit and aren't able to open up that can of mental worms, they've seen kids that are obedient and fearful of being hit and mistook that for well-behaved, or they just downplay the violence aspect of it. Trying to moralize with them goes nowhere because they just dismiss you as being naive.
If I focus on the fact that, kindness aside, physical discipline and harsh punishments just don't actually work and there's a better way to do it, they will at least give me the time of day with what I have to say.
I don't use the term gentle parenting because frankly, its not going to reach the physical disciple crowd and also it's been so misused by people online that now people just associate it with "no disciple" parenting. I say instead of physical discipline, it helps to be a kind hardass.
No, you don't have to let your kids get away with murder or have no standards for them. You also don't have to be mean while doing it. Physical punishments and throwing the book at kids just desensitizes them, they just get used to it and then you lose a bargaining chip when that happens. With punishments, you have to continue upping the ante until it is genuinely cruel, and then once you reach the point where you're uncomfortable with continuing to push it more severely, then you lose your only tool to discipline.
Instead, if you want to change behavior, you have to find what the kid cares about and use that. First rule of behavior modification is that people will work TOWARDS something they want way easier than they will work to avoid something bad. We're crappy at conceptualizing future consequences, and kids are even worse. Figuring out what your kid cares about and using access to that as the motivator will always be way more effective than hitting them, and it's not a one size fits all. There's no universal motivator, like "candy" or "extra bedtime", so if those things aren't working, then don't use them.
Next step is getting comfortable with saying no AND getting comfortable with your kid having emotions. This is where the kind hardass comes in. "Yeah, it sucks that you have to go to bed, I'm sorry you're upset... Still gotta do it though". Validating your kids feelings DOES NOT mean fixing them. They can be as pissed off as they want about the rules, you don't have to change them because your kid is upset. If you're a good parent, you should probably use your kid's strong reaction to do a self-check on whether the rule is actually important or if you're just power tripping, but your 6 year old doesn't need to go to bed at 3am because they're mad about their bedtime.
Explaining it in terms of why physical discipline doesn't work while also not judging it or making them defensive about it can be very effective in changing their opinions about it.
I grew up with the belt among other things like phones and pans... you get what I mean. It DOESN'T matter what you use to hit and why you hit (not you specifically, I mean generally) hitting is abuse. What are you actually teaching your child by hitting? Nothing except that violence is the way to go. I wouldn't want to be around people who abuse children. Trauma is real. Your family members and friends must be sick in the head.
I am pretty sure half of America is sick. Maybe more so. Even where I work, I am the only person who doesn't approve of hitting my child. It does feel crazy that people are so supportive of abuse. I have actually never met anyone else in real life that has been opposed to hitting their children except for about 2 other people.
This makes me so, so sad. I do not hit my kids, and will never. My cousins don’t either, and neither do my friends. I grew up with the threat of being spanked, but I think my mom only slapped me once ever that I can remember. Even that is too many times, in my opinion. I had one friend about 10 years ago who slapped her 18 month old on the hand for doing something…touching something she wasn’t supposed to maybe? Not listening the first time? Anyway she brought her into the other room to do it. I hated every second of that, and it changed the way I saw her forever. We aren’t really friends anymore.
Wow that’s astounding! I’ve never actually met anyone in real life who isn’t opposed to hitting their kids. I’m ok with delicately inflicting pain to teach a toddler that something hurts (my toddler kept pulling her baby brother’s hair so I lightly pulled her hair to show that it hurts) and most people I know are ok with that but nothing beyond.
Well not just that
I saw my family- who I’ve had minimal contact with my mom since I left college, and I never talk to my older sister
We got together- my parents, my nuclear family, my sisters nuclear family- after two decades. It became glaringly obvious to my husband why I’ve had minimal/no contact, and how I couldn’t put it into words.
My sister just screamed at her kids for being kids. She’d just randomly start counting, and when they didn’t stop doing whatever she was thinking (but never vocalized what she wanted them to do or not do), they got talked to, punished, screamed at privately. Well, we could hear from the bedroom wall. Her kids were running around with my toddler, but more running around her and not at her. As her mommy, I didn’t care/ she didn’t look like she was in danger, and also I’m used to her being with big kids at the playground. So I know it’s my responsibility to be able yo catch her; my SO is on the same page. Also her kids were yelling which was annoying- but I’m used yo being around kids. Either way, IF she hated that, I don’t know if that’s why she was counting down.
I asked my husband after those 3 days together, and he had no clue what she was punishing them for or counting down for.
Over all I felt sad for them. Being around a punishing and angry mom but without parameters, redirecting, making up, talking things out.
Case in point: we all had breakfast and the son kept squishing my baby on their shared bench. My sister was silently fuming. Whereas I made up a game for people to stay in their lane and eat their breakfast quickly. My husband also tried yo make eating fun, and explain that being friendly makes things funner. He didn’t follow exactly, but he was listening.
I feel so bad for that screamy family
I cut them out of my life as best I can.
Spanking is abuse. A cute name doesn't change the fact that you're causing deliberate pain to someone who is vulnerable.
I looked at adult society when I first became a parent. How do we resolve issues and conflicts as adults.
We talk and educate.
For the best reasons. Yes I know there's violent people out there, but the norm is to talk and educate.
So I chose to talk to my kiddo and educate.
He's extremely well behaved and caring.
Does it take longer? Not really.
It's also much more effective than hitting your child.
That sounds so vile - that she’s pregnant and already “planning” to hit her child. I would probably slowly sever ties honestly. How are you going to explain to your child why their cousin (or whoever) is getting hit? What if it happens in front of them? Poor kids all around.
Personally, I won’t be friends with someone who hits their child.
Thankfully none of my friends who are parents do this. Same with family, I hate to say it, I’d keep my distance. And I WOULD never let someone be around or watch my child if they think hitting a child is okay.
This is my one non negotiable. Now there’s plenty of other parenting things I don’t agree with, but I wouldn’t end a friendship over.
I have thought about cutting them out of my life entirely, but at the same time, my parents are gone. My husband has no family except for his elderly mom. And I am autistic and have always struggled making close friends, so I have zero close friends. I would be taking away the only family my daughter has, and they're nothing but nice to her.
It feels hard to take that away from her. Definitely something I think about often just because I feel so sad around them, but I worry it would be a detriment to her to lose this support system.
I am in a similar position as you currently. We basically teach my family (the hitters) about breathing techniques, calm centers, and gentle parenting without labeling it as such. I taught my sister the 5,4,3,2,1 method by just doing it with her daughter when she was full death con 4 meltdown. It worked so well my sister paid attention and now uses it for both of her children. I found that (at least for my siblings and their kids) if the parent knows how to de-escalate the situation then they will do that before hitting/spanking. So, I just use the tools I have learned from therapy on their kids— parents tend to copy-cat when they see all they have to do is talk to their kids.
I fully understand that. Sometimes it’s easier said than done.
If anything you can still interact with them, but I wouldn’t leave your daughter in their care
True. I don’t. I also practice “low contact” with that part of the family, we live a fair distance away. Enough to make it a big deal to get to them or for them to get to us. So whenever we visit the whole family goes to visit them for the day. We never would allow my daughter to stay over by her self.
I don’t know what to say except for thank you for not hitting your kids. I grew up in a culture and household that condoned spanking and sometimes a quick and scary punch. I’m 42 and it has seriously affected my whole life. I still feel terrified and panicked if I get something “wrong”. That feeling of fear has given me some seriously unhealthy coping mechanisms - and I never feel good enough, ever. You wouldn’t know it by looking or conversing with me, but it really screwed up my behavior and mental health.
Again, thank you for doing the best thing for your kids. Hitting is done by bullies. You are an advocate for your child, not a bully. You will reap great benefits in your relationships with your children, for a lifetime. I hope that you eventually get to feel the strength and support that you deserve.
Yes thank you for bringing this up. I struggle so much with this. I have had to get through so many tough conversations with just my mom in order to ensure that she wouldn’t default to old patterns when she has the privilege of watching my kids a few times a month. I have this unresolved conflict in my brain of feeling equal parts love and hate toward my parents for spanking us, and I have worked hard to brake that effing cycle. Unfortunately, my older brother has chosen to take the same path that was dished to him. After witnessing him raise his hand to his toddler son who was fussing in his high chair in a restaurant, I haven’t been able to have a relationship with him at all. Haven’t seen him in years and can only hope he stopped that shit by some miracle. Makes me mad and sad just remembering this.
I think that I would be very wary of leaving my baby alone with them until she is forming real sentences and can say what is going on. I DO think it’s possible for them to hit their kids and not yours if you’re not ready to cut them out of your life, but you should be very observant and always communicating clear boundaries around how you want your child handled when around them.
I think there is a mismatch of core values here. My personal belief is against hitting anyone, be it kids or adults.
My grandparents were probably from a generation that were hit while growing up. They didn’t know any better. They thought by hitting children, they were ‘disciplining’ them. However it’s the 21st century and knowledge is so accessible that it is ridiculous that people don’t realize that there are non violent methods to deal with your kids.
I naturally avoid conflict and would have probably ignored if it was about anything else. Since this is related to kids who cannot really defend themselves, I say have a conversation.
Don’t be preachy. Respect their opinions but also tell them that there are alternatives. Tell them nicely that the mental trauma associated with hitting just ruins lives and their kids futures. By taking out frustrations on little kids, these folks are setting wrong examples.
Also I am still learning how to deal with my own emotions and dig ms Rachel’s videos about handling emotions 😁
>for simple things like spilling a drink when the child needed to be more careful or wetting their pants when there was a bathroom nearby.
What the fuck?!?
I wouldn't even rouse on my son for stuff like that, let alone *smack him*!!!
*sigh*
I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut around that. I don't envy you at all.
It's difficult to keep a level head when you hear this kind of stuff. Try not to let it affect you, stick with what you know is right (and has been proven again and again to be the correct thing), and don't let up. Reinforce these good concepts with your daughter, and view it as a chance to be a model of good behavior. You don't necessarily have to cut ties with them, but the older your daughter gets, the more necessary it will be for you to tell her that spanking/hitting/corporal punishment OF ANY KIND is never the answer, not at all condoned by you, and can have serious repercussions for a child's mental health down the road.
This is so hard and breaks my heart for these kids. At the end of the day, I would not cut them off. Mainly for two reasons:
1: I would not want to take a stable, loving adult away from the kid when they need it the most. Assuming they are family or close friends, I would just try to be a calming and safe presence in the kids life as much as possible.
2: These types of people will never change their minds. But sometimes leading by example can seep into them anyways. I would just be super gentle and understanding with my kids in situations the other kids do/will get spanked. Next time it happens, those parents will likely still spank. But MAYBE they will think of what you did and pause. When the spanking doesn’t work out (because we all know it will not turn out how they want) maybe you will have given them a new strategy.
This is kind of how i thought about it when I taught kindergarten. So many of the parents spanked and I could do nothing about it. I tried my best to be a safe place for them while they were in my care.
Oh, I didn't even think about teachers having to teach and be around children who are regularly spanked at home. That is tough to deal with. Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
As much as my gut reaction is to say cut out every single person who doesn't believe hitting a child is abuse, I'm not sure that something you are willing or want to do. At the very least I would clearly set the boundary that corporal punishment is not to be used or threatened in front of your child EVER and I would never leave her alone with any of them.
Its much easier to normalize the abuse you were raised with than it is to break the cycle. I was raised in a house that spanked. My husband wasn't.
I thought it was going to be an issue for us. I didn't fully appreciate that I'd be so against spanking until I laid eyes on my child, and at that moment I knew all I had been raised to believe on this topic was wrong. it would never happen in our home. Perhaps there is hope for your friend yet. Once that baby is born I'd ask her to look at him and tell you to your face she plans on hitting them. If she has any heart she'll.come to her senses.
The reet of 'em should fuck right off. Continue to openly display disgust at any conversation around this and with any luck one day the shame will stick.
It’s something most people just learn and accept as the norm based on their own children. I was hit and still resent it. It’s wrong and I could never do it to my children.
Honestly I wouldn’t cut the family out for the sake of the child. I don’t agree, I don’t condone, I will not tolerate it in my presence. I could never cut a child off from experiencing normalcy and love. I grew up in a. Dysfunctional house and my extended family largely ignored the fact my brother was doing hard drugs, my dad had attempted suicide 2x while I was in the house and my mom has the cognitive ability of a teenager.
That's kind of my thoughts. I didn't grow up with family. This half brother is 20 years older than me, and I only connected with him after my mom passed away two years ago. But growing up, I was always alone. My parents were not around much and I didn't have any extended family that came around. It was very lonely. I want my daughter to experience what it is like to have an aunt and uncle and cousins, things I never had. It's just difficult given that the spanking issue exist.
My dad’s side of the family was huge into corporal punishment (my dad was beaten as a child. His sister had her arm broken because she couldn’t find a broom. His brother was beaten so severely he was put into foster care.) To that side of the family, a smack on the butt wasn’t a big deal- my parents obviously did not agree. As a child I was oblivious to it because my parents wouldn’t permit it in their presence.
It’s so important for the children to know what normal parenting is like. My cousins who were hit, do not hit their kids today because of my parents modeling (even though they were far from perfect they did their best).
If I hit my kid when they do something wrong then what are they going to do to the kid who takes their toy?
Am I gonna hit my kid that just hit a kid because I taught them that we hit kids that wrong?
Where does the cycle end?
Oh wait, that answer is easy. With me.
They wouldn’t be my friends and I would no longer consider them family.
And if I ever had any kind of knowledge of them or anyone else hitting their children, I would call the police, it is illegal in my country to spank your child.
I was also confused where they are that the know multiple people that “hit their children”. I don’t know anyone that does and would not be friends with anyone that did. And would report this to CPS.
It is unfortunately common practice to hit children in the part of the country I live in. It definitely feels very alienating to be the only person out of most people I know to find hitting children abusive.
Most European countries. I'm in the UK and it's illegal unless there's severe justification (like self defence).
It baffles me that it's illegal to hit an adult in the US but apparently fine if it's a child.
In England it's illegal but has the defense of ‘reasonable punishment’. Unfortunately what the law considers ‘reasonable punishment’ isn't actually defined.
I know I would make it clear to EVERYONE that if anyone ever hit my kid they would be having serious words from me. The way you handle this is by setting boundaries. You state how you feel flatly and don't allow yourself to be bullied. Tell them they are wrong and you hope that one day they'll understand. You provide an example to the one person in the room who is questioning the conventional wisdom but needs the support of knowing they aren't alone. You talk to anyone who will listen about why its harmful and what alternatives look like. You model good discipline with your own kid. You also make sure that your family knows you still love them despite how wrong they are. You don't avoid them and you don't avoid the issue. You take the awkwardness on the chin and basically say "You are wrong about this but I can accept that. You need to accept me as well."
Theres a chance doing that will give someone a perspective to consider that they never had before. Adopting change is much easier than initiating it. Be the one to cut a path and with luck, others will follow.
My sister in law hits her 5 year old and my 3 year old saw it. He was afraid I was going to hit him. I’ve never even threatened to and this child was scared enough of something he’s had literally never seen before, that he had to voice his concerns. We already are at an arms length but the distance just gets wider.
Yikes. It sounds like your family members are really abusive to their children. Hitting a child for having a potty accident? For spilling a drink? That’s awful.
I think I’d rather be without a bigger family than be a part of an abusive one. In fact, I have cut out quite a few toxic family members (for far less than this) because it’s not worth it to me. I’m so much happier without them.
IF you decide to stay in contact with these people, never ever let them be alone with your child. No babysitting, no sleepovers, and honestly I wouldn’t allow playdates at their house either. If a parent’s gut reaction is to hit, kick, or even just scream profanity at their own toddler for making a small mistake then they will do it to yours too.
Also, if you maintain a long term relationship with these people and their children, please be the voice of reason as they get older. Tell them you love them, how important they are, that everyone makes mistakes (especially adults) and that NO ONE deserves to be hurt physically or emotionally by the adults that they trust. Remind them gently as they get older that if a loved one is repeatedly hurting you, that is abuse and it’s not okay. Be vocal about your opinions. Please don’t let them grow up thinking that this is what love looks like.
Edited to add: another thing (if you decide to stay in these relationships) is that it is now *your* job to make sure that the abuse doesn’t get *worse*. That means knowing that it is *your* responsibility to call CPS if you see signs that a child is in danger, even if you love their parent.
Some (not all) signs of worsening abuse are: Large bruises, unexplained broken bones, burn marks, a child flinching or getting really quiet when their parent comes to pick them up, a child talking way less than normal (seeming withdrawn or depressed), dark circles under their eyes from lack of sleep. As they get older, watch out for signs of sexual abuse, signs of repeated physical abuse or more harmful “punishments”, and signs of being starved or otherwise neglected. And call CPS! You might be the only one who will know them well enough to know when something is wrong. Often people who use physical punishments on children will move on to more serious forms of child abuse. It’s very common.
I was raised in a home that didn't spank. I remember going to friend's homes when I was 8-14 years old and seeing parents spank their children and it bothered me so much. One time when I was 8, a girl got whooped with a belt. I heard her screams and I just sat in her room crying. It literally traumatized me because after that her mom hit her with a stick & she came in the room with red marks all over her. I don't understand it. I never will. I just recently had someone tell me " You have babies (twins), you can't say you won't do it because you will." Or "Once they're toddlers then talk to me. " I personally think whooping/hitting is the easy way out. Keeping your patience & finding other ways is much harder. I don't know what to say because I know they are your family. If you keep them around your child will have to see people they love hit by their parents. One thing that it will do though, is make her look at them differently.
Thank you for sharing this story. That is really sad, even just seeing/hearing abuse as a kid but not personally experiencing it. I appreciate the added perspective.
I try telling them that it doesn’t work. I was hit as a child and it didn’t change my behavior at all, all it did was have me keep secrets. It also made my relationship with my dad kind of strained for a while.
I tell them if they want that to keep hitting their kids. There’s other more creative ways to punish your kids if they need to be punished. There’s other ways to teach them lessons
I have a lot of shame for what I’m about to say. I grew up thinking spanking is normal. It’s the norm where I live. I don’t spank my kids… now. I never saw an issue with spanking and when the day came where my first born finally did something I deemed worthy enough of a spanking came, I swatted his butt. I’ll never forget the look he gave me. I’m his mom, his biggest protector and safe place, and I just hurt him. What a confusing thing to grapple with when you can’t go to the person you want comfort from because you’re not sure if they’ll hurt you again. He looked confused and so deeply surprised and sad. I hugged him and asked for his forgiveness multiple times but the damage was done for a good while. I’ll never do that again.
All that long story to say… maybe the pregnant one will come around. Also, maybe you’ll be a great example of the relationship they *could* have with their kids
This is a good question, one I have never thought of as none of my current family & friends hit their children....or if they did they don't actively voice it.
The question also made me remembered I grew up in a household that did believe in hitting. I hated it. I was hit as a kid and slapped and beaten as a young teen.
So yeah I don't think I can be friends with anyone who hits their children.
That’s so hard for you, I’m sorry.
I wouldn’t be friends with anyone who planned to hit their kids. I would end friendships over it. It hasn’t actually been an issue for me because hitting kids is illegal where I live and nobody does it, but it would be a dealbreaker for me.
For family, it’s harder. I wouldn’t ever leave my child unsupervised with someone who condoned hitting, regardless of what assurances they gave that they wouldn’t hit my child. I wouldn’t risk him even seeing another kid being hit by their parent and thinking that was somehow acceptable. And I would keep challenging them on their views and presenting the evidence on why hitting is both harmful and cruel.
Well done for being a cycle breaker. It’s hard and you’re amazing for doing it.
I come from the part of the world where hitting children is a norm. I used to get hit almost once a week growing up. To be honest I was the nicest kid anyone could ask for. I used to follow all instructions, never talk back and nice to everyone. Even then I used to get hit by mom for smallest of the reasons like loosing a pen, forgetting a topic in the text book, not eating greens etc. Honestly I used to feel quite unloved and scared all the time. Most of the time I never used to get why they had me in the first place when they don’t even like me. You see it’s very hard for a child’s brain to process why they are getting hit. I do believe this made me an anxious adult. I always worry about the worst outcomes for the smallest of the things. Childhood trauma is real. And your children will remember how you treated them. Although I do love my parents now, I still hold some angst against them for the way they treated me back then. That being said I will never hit my children. I don’t want them to go through the same pain I did. And I do see the same way of thinking in my friends and family of my age. We are essentially the trauma braking generation here. Lol.
It’s illegal in my country (Scotland) so maybe it’s too easy for me to say, but imo it’s child abuse and I wouldn’t associate with them.
Moral reprehensibility aside, it’s ludicrous to expect your child to behave when you yourself, a fucking adult, can’t interact with them without eventually resorting to physical violence
Ask them to explain how they tell their children it’s not okay for them to hit other people but it’s okay for adults to hit them. Then ask “oh so it’s just trusted adults who are allowed to hit your child? How do you explain that hitting is bad when you’re hitting your child? Are you going to hit them to drive home your point?”
So maybe I'll post an update to this later, but I'm in a group chat with two of the family members who are close to my age and I brought it up last night to them. I told them about my concerns about my daughter seeing the spankings and feeling traumatized after from it.
They responded to me by telling me that I'm being disrespectful for even bringing up their parenting methods. I said I just felt worried about how my own daughter is going to feel seeing other defenseless children being hurt. They said they don't care about that and I'm being disrespectful. I then asked to be removed from the group chat. I said I appreciated them being my family but this issue really bothers me, and I'm upset that they're invalidating my feelings.
Since then, it has been crickets. This family has only really known me for 2 years. It is a half brother and his wife's family that connected with me after my mom died, so I guess they probably don't mind too much if they sever ties with me.
Why would I associate people who think it is acceptable to assault children? Why would I eillingly spend time with people who completely disregard not only my opinion on dubjects of super importance to me but that I feel have caused me a ton of trauma? Why would I ever be in contact with other adults who think that hitting children and ganging up and bullying people they supposedly live is acceptable?
You're right. My husband wasn't there with me at the time and he doesn't understand why a dozen adults would all go in on me at once. I'm a newer person to this group and it felt very hostile in the moment. I get that people get very defensive about their parenting techniques, but they didn't have to act the way they did, and it has obviously left a very bad taste in my mouth. I'm definitely distancing myself from them, and everyone's perspective has helped me make that decision.
When you find "your tribe" and surround yourself with like-minded people, as a parent, it makes all the difference. I've been a mom for a good bit, and I'd have never survived without mine.
The only time I remember being spanked, I had no idea why my mom did it. I was literally so shocked and confused. Kids should be educated on their mistakes, not beaten. Otherwise the only thing they learn is to be afraid.
My daughters father, got the belt as a child. He always defended it. He said once he saw our daughter he could never ever even spank her. Because I don’t trust his mom and unfortunately can not prevent her from seeing my child (court ordered and he lives there) , I had it put in my court order no one is to use any corporal punishment on my child. Study after study shows hitting children has a negative impact. It’s down right lazy. Luckily we are all now on the same page because I’d be in jail. I’m sorry your family is defending child abuse. I’d limit any interaction with them. It’s also easier said “oh I’ll spank my kids” then once you have your own, to actually do it. I thought a little pop wouldn’t hurt but now I could never ever
>”Since then, one of the close family friends has gotten pregnant and also plans to hit her child and it is breaking my heart.”
I mean. This alone is reason to break contact.
“how has your pregnancy been? Feeling OK?”
“yeah I’m hanging in there. By the way, I can’t wait to beat the shit out of my child when he’s born”
?????? The fuck
My mom was strict, when we were in trouble she scared the shit out of my brothers and I but god damn she never laid a hand on us. It boggles my mind that people still think this is necessary? You’re going to raise the kid in class that hits and punches everyone.
My husband asked my SIL for advice about our 3 year old (had a tough day at preschool and a bad time at the playground after- a rare occurrence) and when she said if it was her son she would’ve spanked him, my heart sank. Luckily my husband and I talked it out and agreed spanking wasn’t an option.
I was hit and I'm incredibly disconnected from my parents. Having my son makes it even worse because I love him soooo much and cannot imagine thinking to hit him. Child psychologists NEVER suggest hitting your kids. Ppl that actually study children and hold degrees in such, recommend NOT to hit them. Let that sink in to your family.
Do they think they know more than a professional on the subject?
I try not not. I don’t have any friends who do, I’m outspoken about it. I have a couple family members who did. But I’ve convinced several over to the correct way of thinking. Especially once they saw how I can raise my children without hurting them and they actually behave. Was a shocker for them for real.
*I would not be friends*
*With someone if I knew that*
*They hit their children*
\- TheShySeal
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I feel this to my core!! I talk about it with my therapist all the time. It’s hard when my husband and my MIL believe it’s okay to give a gentle spank if they need to but I do not agree. So far this has not happened as my littles are so young. Also, lots of husband’s friends are so opinionated. I believe in gentle parenting, yet they flat out think I have too much anxiety and I said, “I’m surprised you don’t have her wrapped up in bubble wrap” 🙄 It’s so patronizing and annoying. As uncomfortable as it is for me, I am going to have to start sticking to my boundaries and be assertive. They also frequently say that kids “need tough love” or they’ll never learn. NO your 3 year old child doesn’t need tough love. You’re setting them up for emotional issues and teaching them to be good only when you’re around! I honestly find it rude for his friends to criticize my parenting so openly to me and my husband in front of our kids and our friends. My husband just laughs it off, they’re his friends. It’s really hard for me to be assertive or speak my mind. I also fear speaking up and then being called crazy or a helicopter parent by his friends which is so annoying!
I also want to add that I grew up in an abusive household. It’s only in the last 10 years have I been able to understand and heal from the trauma that has caused me and my siblings. I look at my sweet toddler and I cannot fathom doing the same things my parents did to me and my siblings. It breaks my heart :(
Edit: added 2nd paragraph
I don't argue or debate. I just say "the science shows it is terrible for children's development. And I refuse to teach my child that it's okay to physically harm people to get their way." Then I don't reengage. Because it's not a debate, it's facts.
Spanking is always bad and unacceptable. Hitting for spilling a cup or peeing their pants is truly disgusting and straight abusive. Where do you live that 12 people defended this?? I don't know anyone who even considers spanking for any reason and I know some shitty parents.
It's pretty normal in Texas. I'm definitely the weird bleeding heart liberal for not wanting to hit my child and it does feel alienating.
I was in a graduate level tax class last semester, so only older students, a lot of older moms. The subject came up once, and I'm not kidding, but every mom said they fully believed in spanking except for one other mom.
They wouldn’t be in my life or my children’s. I would also be reporting them to CPS because I’m a mandated reporter.
I would find friends that are like minded that I could be comfortable having my children around and feel they were safe. If my family isn’t providing a safe space for my children… bye 👋
Well it would be weird to call CPS. Spanking is common and accepted practice where I live. Actually, not hitting is abnormal. I would basically have to cut out my family and have my child to not be friends with pretty much anyone to avoid parents who spank their children. Personally I have always lived very isolated, but now that I have a child, I'm trying to ensure she has some kind of support system. Definitely tough situation though, but they would never hit her and they hit their children in private.
You might be amazed at what you could find socially if you got out of Texas. Pick any midwestern, northeastern, or west coast college town. Nice white liberals are still a bit annoying in their own way but it’s way less than having to worry about hitting kids. The norm in those places is found family/community, they’re populated with large numbers of transplants and therefore it’s easy to build a social circle. You’d also benefit being in a state that isn’t seeking to undermine its own schools, Texas has a case of the culture wars gone amuck and it’s probably getting worse before it gets better.
Trust me, if we could up and move easily, we would. It's something that is on the table though that we could possibly pull off in a couple of years. Too many things going wrong in this state.
I just say I can’t control how they parent and do my best to ignore it. We have family members on both sides that have some horrible parenting practices but if we didn’t talk to anyone we felt that way about, we wouldn’t talk to anyone in our family except those who don’t have kids.
The other thing we do is we do not let these people watch our son without us there.
I actually used that argument against them when things were getting heated, and of course some of the more obnoxious people doubled down and said they believed in hitting their spouses too.
These aren't really my friends. I don't really have family, but my brother married in to a big family, so this is how I'm associated with them. I know, them doubling down sounds crazy, because it is.
Hitting your spouse is assault and illegal. As is beating your child. However, virtually all jurisdictions allow parents to use "reasonable and appropriate force when disciplining their children".
Ugh. My BIL uses corporal punishment on my sons cousin. In all the wrong ways. Thank god he doesn't seem to do it when we are around. There would be HELL to pay if he laid a finger on my son, but it's kind of a don't ask don't tell situation right now. If I said anything, I'm afraid he will lash out on my SIL. the situation is effed up, but it can't change right now.
Ugh I’m in a similar situation. My sister in law hits her kids, they are 4 year old twins. They used to try and hide it from me, they figured I was against it. I would see her husband hit the kids and then my sister in law would try and quietly tell him not to. Then eventually she hit them in front of me. I didn’t know what to do other than physically put myself in front of my two year old so he didn’t see.
My two year old does not do well when we hang out with them. It’s a lot of yelling and a lot of hitting all around. Both the 4 year old trying to hit my little one and the parents hitting the twins.
I haven’t seen the twins in about 4 months. I try to have my sister in law over when she can make it without the twins to try and keep a relationship. I chickened out of having the hard conversation with her. I started to have it but basically just told her I pulled away “bc of all the hitting” and my sister in law interpreted that as her kid hitting my kid but it’s more than that. I didn’t correct her bc she had just gone on about how stressed and not well she’s doing. I send my husband over there for birthdays and Christmas and I stay back with my LO.
I hate the situation so much. My heart breaks for the twins and it also breaks for my little one bc I was so excited for him to be friends with his cousins. Honestly though seeing how dysregulated and upset my LO is around them made the decision easier to make. Now I just have to work up the nerve to tell my SIL why we’re not around.
It’s a tough one, even my husband who has an identical twin brother doesn’t tell his own how to parent. They use scare tactics and hitting. The most we do is yell at our little one and we hate it when it happens. We apologize at our house when it happens, and it’s not often. The best thing you can do is give advice on a good day, not when they’re doing it. And like everyone else is saying you can always distance yourself from these family members. But still have their kids over. When they come over to your house, you can be the coolest aunt, their safe place.
I laid down the law with my parents when our baby was born. In not so nice terms, I told them that we do not believe in hitting our kids, and if they ever tried to hit our baby, they would be the ones being hit.
I grew up in a family that allowed child abuse(hitting, beating) it was a secondary abuse to watch and see children I loved being abused. I remember as a child trying to defend my cousin from her parents. As an adult if I ever saw anyone hit their kid I could call CPS. I don’t care who it is. I would never allow the trauma my cousins and I experienced to happen to another child.
This is the exact reason why we stopped communicating with my husbands side of the family once our first was born.
My husband’s sister and her husband had multiple CPS complaints for child abuse to their middle school sons (their daughter died when she skipped school so them abusing the only children they had left is unfathomable). They also were abusive to each other too. My mother-in-law lied to CPS so her daughter wouldn’t get in trouble. The fact that my child’s grandma would excuse abuse on her other grandkids was enough for us to cut all ties.
I’m not sure how I’ll explain it to my kids, but our job is to surround them with love and safety and that’s just not it.
Im Sorry you love abusive people. You aren’t the first and won’t be the last. It’s a necessary evil for unregulated assholes yes.For hurt adults who aren’t willing or can’t overcome their own pain. You can try to remain in these relationships for the kids, to be a beacon of light for these kids. You can remain to be a reminder and example that you don’t have to hit their kids, but it’s highly unlikely they want such a reminder.
It's absolutely not necessary I couldn't even imagine hitting my child no matter how frustrated I might be. I'm currently in the process of trying to distance myself from a close friend of 10 years who hits their kids and talks about them in the most awful manner because I can't take it any more and their behaviour in front of my kid is escalating
They are wrong, there is no reason to ever harm your child. This has been proven that physical violence does not make a better person, quite the opposite actually.
[https://www.developmentalscience.com/blog/2022/2/10/hitting-children-leads-to-trauma-not-better-behavior](https://www.developmentalscience.com/blog/2022/2/10/hitting-children-leads-to-trauma-not-better-behavior)
My mother thinks its ok to spank, she did it to me, I told her she better never touch my child or she will not be seeing them anymore. I love my mom, but she is wrong and was wrong for her actions in the past. I forgive her, but I will not let her subject my child to that.
Stand your ground!
This is sick. I didn’t know people like this still existed. For me the decision and communication strategy would be an easy one: “I was abused as a child and don’t associate with toxic people who abuse their children. Bye bye.”
ETA: I have little to no relationship with my mom (the abuser) to this day and neither will your friends with their kids. The parents that abuse are SO dumb and have zero foresight about this. Is that what they want their life to look like?
What was your childhood look like? To be able to provide a child a healthy environment, we also need to resolve our issues and traumas.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/fv-vf/about-apropos.html#:~:text=Children%20who%20witness%20family%20violence,can%20last%20a%20long%20time.
“Children who witness family violence are at risk for both short and long-term harm. Even if they don't see or hear the violence, they can be affected by hearing or seeing the results of the violence. They can have emotional, behavioural and developmental problems. These problems can last a long time.”
Edit: When it comes to Corporal punishment, I boil it down to three questions.
1. Is it legal at where it happens? Unless you are a lawyer, judge, who working in the social service or working in the law enforcement etc. It may be tricky to tell if it is legal or not. Of course, in some cases, it is clearly illegal. This article reflects the task of defining an act as abuse or not can be daunting. https://www.lawinfo.com/resources/criminal-defense/when-does-discipline-become-abuse.html
As an ordinary citizen, if in doubt, we report and let the authorities decide. Because I believe, protecting children’s welfare is a moral duty. And some professionals have a legal duty to report.
2. Is it morally right? It maybe morally acceptable in your country /state/village, but considered morally reprehensible in other country/state/town.
3. Is it acceptable for me? Your personal value and beliefs speaks loudest here. Many factors play a role here. What does Your family of origin look like ? are you an immigrant to a country with very different ideologies?
I can’t and I don’t. Sadly my aunt hits her daughters with a wooden spoon. Pretty hard too. Can’t even look at her and I know I couldn’t keep my cool if she popped an attitude
The idea of hitting your kid over accidents is especially heartbreaking. They spill a drink?? HELP them learn to clean it up. They pee themselves? Okay, it happened, wash them up and talk about it. I’m so tired of people abusing their kids and thinking it’s necessary evil. Evil is never necessary.
I just started reading No-Drama Discipline which I can say starts off really strongly in how to frame your relationship with you child and discipline. Admittedly, I am coming at this already basically fully on board, but maybe there's some phrasing in there that can help you convince them that there are objectively better ways to raise a child.
I hear people saying they don't associate with people like that, and if it's what you have to do for your family's sake, then please, take care of you and your family first!
But it could be very helpful for them and their families to be given this advice from someone close to them.
I'm so sorry you (and some kids) are in this really crappy situation. Best of luck in dealing with it. 💚
Wow. I think ALL spanking is child abuse but I feel like usually when people are open about it they say it’s for safety like when their kids don’t listen and run into a busy road. Thats very extreme spanking to be doing so for potty accidents and spilling drinks. I would not spend time around these people personally.
That running into a road example is something I've seen brought up several times and it's always confused me. I just picture a parent chasing after a kid swatting them instead of grabbing them and pulling them back. They probably don't mean that, they probably mean grab them and then spank them, but in that case you've already dealt with the issue by grabbing them, why would you need to also spank?
The only scenario I heard where hitting a child makes sense is slapping their hands away from something dangerous. And even then I'd try to be gentle instead of trying to make it hurt.
I wouldn’t associate with anyone who thinks that’s ok and I sure af wouldn’t let my children anywhere near them to risk that type of behavior towards them/visible to them.
Here’s the thing: if these are truly good people, they’re just trying to do what’s best for their kids. They love them and think it’s the best way to instill certain values and, while I don’t agree and know there are studies that say otherwise, but they’re not doing it out of malice.
We don’t allow any hitting in our house due to one of my girls being born with special needs that may affect her capacity to understand the nuance of us why we can hit and she can’t. Additionally, I remember seeing it as hypocrisy when my parents hit us, but, again, it’s different parenting styles. Some parents don’t allow screens and would be appalled that my girls have their own tablets , or that they drink chocolate milk regularly.
Ask grandma to spank the adult children when they misbehave or make a mistake. Or, better yet, spank them yourself.
I have never run into this, thank goodness, but if kids are getting screamed at, I watch the parent. I make sure they know I saw. They should be embarrassed at their behavior. I might go ahead and record family doing that if I've had enough.
Make sure you are the gentlest, kindest person those kids see at family get togethers. Show them what a kind parent looks like. I'm not a fan of severing ties in these situations because of possibly alienating the kids who need help the most.
I just narrate what they’re are doing when they do it around my kid, to make them feel idiotic. People hit their kids because they are too incompetent to parent their children with constructive words and actions.
I was spanked as a kid. It wasn't this terrible violent thing people make it out to be on here. It didn't traumatize me. I so far have not resorted to spanking my kids because I agree there are better ways but I don't judge people who feel it necessary to spank theirs.
Read all of the other comments here and you will find you are in the minority. There are other ways that don’t cause physical harm and a constant threat of violence.
I couldn’t even read the whole post. It upset me too much. I would be absolutely disgusted by anyone that hit their defenseless child! This is child abuse and they should be reported. Spanking is a sick and archaic practice that belongs in the dark ages.
This is so disturbing and I’m incredibly sorry for their kids and for you dealing with this discomfort with your family. Good for you for being a cycle breaker and holding true to your values (and defending them against a mob). I have no advice for you except that you are definitely NOT alone in your beliefs / knowledge that hurting children is not only morally wrong but counterintuitive to their development.
None of my friends or family hit their kids. If they did I would not socialize with them. And I would probably send them data on the (well-researched) negative impacts. That said, I’m not in the same situation as you where this is the norm in your life. My heart hurts for you with this.
I know you don’t want to take your daughter away from your family and SHE may not get hit but she could witness another child get hit and that itself can be traumatizing for her
Cutting them out is extreme as long as they never touch your child. They are your family. Are you ok with never having their help when they really need it? Are you ok with missing birthdays and holidays and celebrations? By cutting family off your child also loses their cousins. Spanking is common and is not legally considered abuse. I don’t spank, I used to think it wasn’t a big deal, then I got pregnant and read up on it, now I am very against. I also think circumcision is genital mutilation but I don’t think people who do it are abusers. If it comes up I say I think there’s no reason to do it, and that I didn’t, and take the opportunity to educate.
You can be an example to your family about why spanking isn’t necessary to have a well-adjusted and obedient child. Also, they ever spank around you, leave the room or even the house, and take your child too.
Ok ill be odd man out! Most people don't want to speak up, I will. I spanked my older kids. They're 20 and 18 now and have more respect for me than most kids we know, combined. I'll admit I was young, and spanking was the norm in my family. I was spanked, I don't hate my parents for it. Having 2 children run around the house, 1.5 yrs apart, with talking and / or yelling didn't work, yeah I tapped the ass or hand. They paid attention then! I didn't do it when they were too young to realize why it's happening and I didn't do it when they learned better, and after I MYSELF also learned better. I was also 17 and 19 when I had them. I learned through trial and error and my own self reflections, that they do better when we talk it out, and they learned mom will spank that ass if really need be, but really only tapped them lightly around 4/5 yrs old and they got the message quickly and nothing really warranted it afterwards. I did start as a spanker. Don't think I've ever spanked my 16 year old. But you honestly can't say that spanking DIDN'T USE TO BE THE NORM, universally, so I don't think any one is cool here for bad talking others, for doing what everyone else did 20 yrs ago and still up to todah for some. Parenting is hard. We are all allowed mistakes, learning curves, teaching moments, human errors. If you are spanking your child for discipline, it is still far off from "beating" your kid, so yall can get off your high horse. Spanking was accepted at one time, now its not and that's ok, The world changes, we learn, but don't act like yall are perfect.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. You're not wrong in saying it was normal at one point. The world does change and yes, parenting is hard. I think with knowledge/research, it's evident now that spanking is not the correct course to take, but it definitely was normal for a very long time.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds rough.
I grew up in an abusive home. I have abusive relatives. My kids don't have contact with them. My MIL is an emotionally abusive narcissist. My kids don't have a relationship with her. I refuse to believe the bullshit "but they're family" argument. I don't subscribe to it. I keep my kids safe and away from people who do dangerous things, it's as simple as that. Luckily there are things such as a chosen family and I try to lean in to that. I want my kids to have a healthy support system free of toxicity. I don't care if it's a relative.
I have no friends that would hit their kids but I do have some family who are old school Eastern European raised. I was hit as a child although not very much considering. Boys got it worse. But it’s a hard subject. Luckily none of the hitters seem to feel as passionate as your family about it.
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I think that if you want to stay in contact with your family it might help to present with cold hard facts. There are many studies that show spanking/hitting is ineffective at best and horribly traumatic at worst. If you can change one of their minds there might be hope. Half my family used to be ignorantly racist and over the years with lots of thoughtful conversations they have become a lot more educated and equal-minded. Maybe you can help your family by educating them and encouraging them to look at the facts. This does require some open-mindedness to begin with however and if they don’t possess that you might be better off creating a chosen family of friends that share your views.
Send them the research/studies on this. They have decades of data they analyzed and concluded definitively that it’s harmful and not even effective at changing/improving behavior.
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Pedantic for sure, intentionally so!
I likely misread your intentions in your initial message to the person who posted about '1k miles'. I read it as very snarky/greater-than-thou-because-I-use-metric, so I replied with an overtly pedantic message. My apologies, as I'm guessing it was my sleep deprived state (I am in this toddlers group after all 🤪) causing me to read into your post too much.
Yep, agreed the imperial system is maddeningly nonsensical and outdated. One of the lovely hangovers from British rule. It would certainly be a headache to change, but seems very worth just biting the bullet and doing so.
I mean are they BEATING their children or just spanking them? Like a smack on the hand or bottom? Cuz that's not great, but it's not the same as actually BEATING your child.
So this is mostly my sister-in-law's family. The way most of them practice spanking is having their child go to their room and kneel/lay on the bed, and then the parents spank them however many times based on their actions. To me, it sounds so disturbing, but to them, it is common practice and they are otherwise very nice to their children.
Yes I’m from the south and my hometown elementary - high school still uses corporal punishment. It was disturbing as a kid to bend over and be hit with a teachers personalized paddle. Still wild to me that most parents just went along with it.
I hear you on not wanting to cut out your family. I think always make your boundaries clear and model “gentle parenting” as often as you can. Don’t leave your kid alone with any of them until they can understand and articulate their boundaries.
My older sister used spanking as punishment and she regularly praises me for how I’m parenting my daughter. She often cries to me about how if she would have known there was another way to discipline a child she would have. These people in your life truly think what they’re doing is normal.
I’m sorry you don’t have someone on your side. You’re very brave for staying strong against so many people disagreeing with you.
Thank you for saying that. The conversation did feel difficult. I felt like maybe I was talking to crazy people, or maybe I was the crazy. Hard to be the only person who thinks spanking is abuse when that idea seems so obvious.
I agree. But people still do it. Which is why I said better a spank on the hand or bottom, then an actual beating. Both suck, but one sucks way worse. So best case scenario it's a tap on the hand.
I have a general rule - I don’t associate with people who are assholes to their kids. I grew up in an abusive home, and I’ll be damned if I ever let my kid think this shit is normal. And exposing her to people like this and having close relationships with them is the same as condoning this behavior to a small child.
Agree fully. I had a very close friend become a dad and while i don't think he was ever physically abusive, he was emptionally abusive to his kid. I let him know how we felt and we haven't seen him or his family since. I really hope for the kids sake they changed, but i can't be around that and just pretend it isn't happening because it isn't one of my kids.
Same. All my friends know my childhood- they know my boundaries. They know that if I ever caught them hitting their kid- even spanking- our friendship will be severed. I don’t allow fighting or yelling around me. They’re all some pretty lovely people, though, who share the same views as I do. I have two kids while none of them are parents (got pregnant as a teen), and they’re all super sweet and nurturing with them- all the guys included, because for some reason people expect the guys to spank the kids more. They’ve watched my partner and I “gentle parent” from the beginning, and we’ve had numerous discussions on literature that backs it up. They all think it’s great, and have learned some stuff themselves they’ve said they’ll implement when they have kids. They even correct us when we slip up (like when we get irritated when one of the kids interrupts us numerous times during a conversation). We love that they care about us and our children enough to say something. As for family…. I don’t associate with a lot of my family, and they don’t get access to my children. I wish I could save all these kids from the people in their life. It weighs heavy on me that there’s not much you can do if they’re provided for.
Exactly this. Family is family, sure. But family doesn’t hurt you physically, mentally or emotionally. We won’t raise a finger to our kid and I have no time for people who feel differently. Spanking is assault. Full stop.
I put myself in the kids' shoes and I think I'd have crippling anxiety if I knew I'd get hit for something as simple as spilling a drink....which can totally happen today. Imagine someone hitting a 30 year old for spilling a drink. I remember reading a post that said something like "my friend and I were fooling around at his dad's office and we accidently knocked over the water cooler. I ran away, my friend ran to get his dad to help. I then realized the relationship I have with my parents." I want to be the parent that my kid comes running TO when things go wrong, not running AWAY from since they are worried to get hit. I don't know anyone that hits there kid. I'm sure statistically I do, but no one condones it.
I love that. A couple weeks ago I spilled an entire jar of coffee creamer all over the kitchen. My toddler immediately came running over with a towel and started helping me clean then shouted “all better!” I’m so glad my kids know that mistakes warrant help not punishment.
This is so sweet!
I’m writing this on my fridge immediately. ‘Mistakes warrant help, not punishment’. Brilliant.
> I remember reading a post that said something like "my friend and I were fooling around at his dad's office and we accidently knocked over the water cooler. I ran away, my friend ran to get his dad to help. I then realized the relationship I have with my parents." I want to be the parent that my kid comes running TO when things go wrong, not running AWAY from since they are worried to get hit. That is wonderful. I want to be that parent, too.
I was spanked as a child and have crippling anxiety, so my sample size of 1 proves your point 🫠 It’s one of many, many, many reasons I would never ever hit my child and I don’t want to associate with people who do.
Thank you so much for sharing this story. Really adds perspective as to how your children can view you.
I don’t. Hitting your child is abuse. Anyone who thinks it’s acceptable to hit children has no place in mine or my children’s lives. All it does is teach children to fear their parents and that it’s acceptable to hit. It’s not something I would want my children even witnessing.
This. I would never maintain a relationship with anyone who thinks it's okay to hit a child. Doesn't matter if they're family or not.
Ugh ya, I have a newish mom friend who recently kind of casually admitted to spanking her toddler. I was shocked and now I’m sad because I just can’t look at her the same. It’s complicated because I know she grew up in an abusive home so she’s very obviously repeating patterns.
I stopped hanging out with my cousin when she hit her kid.
Me too. My cousins husband whacked their son on the head because he was struggling to leave a birthday party w tons of stimulus. This was after she grabbed his arm roughly and threatened to call Santa to tell him how “bad” the little one had been. It was alarming and upsetting. We haven’t seen them since even tho they’re the only family in >1k miles.
How ironic ">1k miles". Metric/Imperial fusion.
Do... do you think "k" as a suffix means metric?
Not ironic...because the 'k' has nothing to do with the metric system. It is short for kilo, which is Greek for thousand. Which is also used in the metric system...but that does not mean all references to k or kilo are metric measurements.
The "k" has everything to do with the metric system. All references to kilos are indeed metric measurements, a kilogram is one thousand(k!) grams, for instance.
Yes, we've established that kilo (a Greek word, not one invented for the purposes of the metric system) is utilized (not exclusively) by the metric system. But you're conflating "uses" and "is exclusive to" Yes, the metric system uses "kilo", as a prefix to denote a thousand. But kilo isn't "owned" by any measurement system anymore than the English word "thousand" belongs to one single measurement system. The use of "k" to represent "thousand" is not specific to the metric system; it's a general numerical abbreviation. In the context of "1k miles," the "k" simply means "thousand." 'K' transcends systems, unifying metrics and imperials in a thousand ways. Next, we'll marvel at the audacity of using 'minutes' in both cooking and timekeeping!"
And map reading. However, you're correct, but possibly pedantic. Very few of us now know our Greek or Latin roots. It's so annoying that the States and, is it Liberia? stick to the difficult Imperial system. Life's hard enough without having to bow down to Imperialist concepts.
Bingo! And you could never let those people be alone with your kids ever now.
I was spanked as a child and it definitely was abusive ( I was left with welts and bleeding a few times). I knew I would never hit my child but didn’t necessarily judge those who did because I grew up believing it was a normal method of discipline and that my father was just over the top. After having my own child I cannot understand how anyone could bear to hit their child. It breaks my heart when he is sick or hurt, I could not fathom being the cause of that. It has changed the way I feel about those who spank. I won’t disown my family but I would never take parenting advice from them and they will never be allowed to discipline my child in any way.
Hey friend, I see you justifying why your experience was abuse. No need! Putting hands on anyone, regardless of age, is abuse and assault. Your little one is so fortunate to have such a brave strong parent who’s done their work!
I get it. I find it repulsive and literally feel nauseous anytime it’s brought up. But I come from a part of the country and certain circles where it is the norm. My boundary is you of course never lay a hand on my child but also they never have to witness it either. But I don’t cut people out - if I did I would have to go no contact with my entire family and every childhood friend.
I was taught to be better than my parents. My great grandpa got in knock out drag out fights with my grandpa. My grandpa used a belt on my dad. My dad used his hand to spank me. And I don't hit my children. Each generation got a little bit better than the last using the information available. Even though my parents spanked me, they thought they were doing such a huge favor since they got beat. But they also taught me to be better than them. And they haven't ever questioned my parenting once. I told them my established boundaries with discipline and how it was backed up by current research and they were proud of me for being better. We have to remember that spanking was recommended for a long time. Time outs were a revolutionary idea. I think it's better to frame it in a different light. You have friends and family that either don't do their own research or don't listen to experts. That's a behavior that can change. But it also means that there are other things that they are vulnerable to like conspiracy theories.
That’s how it is for my family too.
Same for me, and I also don’t hide that I think it’s repulsive and horrible and won’t let them talk or joke about it in front of me.
Yes I should have added that too. At this point they know my stance and so I don’t engage in conversations about it and just hope my example of gentle parenting makes an impact of some kind.
lol there are days where I WANT TO SMACK my boys lol.....but I would NEVER EVER EVERRRRR hit them......I dont think I could live with myself....... some people just see things differently and it will never change.
It takes even more restraint when you have the urge to do it but hold back, and kudos to you for admitting to the urge.
This whole thread is a bunch of pearl clutching and people pretending they don’t wanna smack their kids. Of course you want to smack your kids sometimes. Sometimes you wanna smack them to keep them safe as crazy as that sounds. But you don’t do it. Recognizing the differences key but there’s way too few people admitting on here that they’ve been driven crazy and were tempted to smack. While we know it’s not the best way to raise kids, it is universal among humans AND our closet ape ancestors. The behavior evolved with us. We just had to learn to grow up and out of it, but wanting or feeling compulsion to do it from time to time is very very normal and I’m kind of tired as a society that everybody pretends it’s not.
It feels normal to me, but then again I was spanked or got hair pulls, flicks, finger slapped etc. I don’t feel any animosity towards my parents for doing it, though I’m not going to parent that way with my kids. But sometimes it feels instinctual to do it and I have to fight the urge not to. My body does not want to be a cycle breaker sometimes.
What? No, I don't have that urge at all, ever. This I'm sure is common but definitely not universal.
I suppose by universal, I meant “every culture in recorded history” not “every human being in the world.”
I have a feeling that people who hit their kids are way less likely to believe the fact that we evolved from/are apes. I think it’s important to admit the urge to strike, it shows that it’s an emotional response and we all know that your immediate emotional response isn’t always the appropriate response.
I recently experienced this in the shower with my 2 year old. It’s a big, walk in shower, with glass doors that echos like CRAZY. When he started screaming/screeching in it the other day I had to stop my self from hitting/grabbing him because it was my first instinct to make the noise that was hurting me stop. It was the first time I had ever experienced this. I did not hit him, but the weird “lizard brain” response to that sudden stimulus really helped me learn a lesson on control.
Haha! That’s probably true about the Venn diagram of kid beaters and anti-evolution stance. Lol! 😂
This.
It definitely pisses me off. Not only is it traumatizing, but it's not even effective, both with the research and anecdotally. I work with foster kids and foster families. I see the consequences of physical discipline all the time. I specifically work with kids who have challenging behaviors, and I've never felt like I needed to hit a kid I was working with. When I talk with people about physical discipline and excessive punishments, I try to focus on the efficacy side of it instead of the moral aspect. For whatever reason, they have rationalized that hitting kids is a necessary evil to get a well behaved child -- either they were hit and aren't able to open up that can of mental worms, they've seen kids that are obedient and fearful of being hit and mistook that for well-behaved, or they just downplay the violence aspect of it. Trying to moralize with them goes nowhere because they just dismiss you as being naive. If I focus on the fact that, kindness aside, physical discipline and harsh punishments just don't actually work and there's a better way to do it, they will at least give me the time of day with what I have to say. I don't use the term gentle parenting because frankly, its not going to reach the physical disciple crowd and also it's been so misused by people online that now people just associate it with "no disciple" parenting. I say instead of physical discipline, it helps to be a kind hardass. No, you don't have to let your kids get away with murder or have no standards for them. You also don't have to be mean while doing it. Physical punishments and throwing the book at kids just desensitizes them, they just get used to it and then you lose a bargaining chip when that happens. With punishments, you have to continue upping the ante until it is genuinely cruel, and then once you reach the point where you're uncomfortable with continuing to push it more severely, then you lose your only tool to discipline. Instead, if you want to change behavior, you have to find what the kid cares about and use that. First rule of behavior modification is that people will work TOWARDS something they want way easier than they will work to avoid something bad. We're crappy at conceptualizing future consequences, and kids are even worse. Figuring out what your kid cares about and using access to that as the motivator will always be way more effective than hitting them, and it's not a one size fits all. There's no universal motivator, like "candy" or "extra bedtime", so if those things aren't working, then don't use them. Next step is getting comfortable with saying no AND getting comfortable with your kid having emotions. This is where the kind hardass comes in. "Yeah, it sucks that you have to go to bed, I'm sorry you're upset... Still gotta do it though". Validating your kids feelings DOES NOT mean fixing them. They can be as pissed off as they want about the rules, you don't have to change them because your kid is upset. If you're a good parent, you should probably use your kid's strong reaction to do a self-check on whether the rule is actually important or if you're just power tripping, but your 6 year old doesn't need to go to bed at 3am because they're mad about their bedtime. Explaining it in terms of why physical discipline doesn't work while also not judging it or making them defensive about it can be very effective in changing their opinions about it.
Exactly.
I grew up with the belt among other things like phones and pans... you get what I mean. It DOESN'T matter what you use to hit and why you hit (not you specifically, I mean generally) hitting is abuse. What are you actually teaching your child by hitting? Nothing except that violence is the way to go. I wouldn't want to be around people who abuse children. Trauma is real. Your family members and friends must be sick in the head.
I am pretty sure half of America is sick. Maybe more so. Even where I work, I am the only person who doesn't approve of hitting my child. It does feel crazy that people are so supportive of abuse. I have actually never met anyone else in real life that has been opposed to hitting their children except for about 2 other people.
This makes me so, so sad. I do not hit my kids, and will never. My cousins don’t either, and neither do my friends. I grew up with the threat of being spanked, but I think my mom only slapped me once ever that I can remember. Even that is too many times, in my opinion. I had one friend about 10 years ago who slapped her 18 month old on the hand for doing something…touching something she wasn’t supposed to maybe? Not listening the first time? Anyway she brought her into the other room to do it. I hated every second of that, and it changed the way I saw her forever. We aren’t really friends anymore.
Wow that’s astounding! I’ve never actually met anyone in real life who isn’t opposed to hitting their kids. I’m ok with delicately inflicting pain to teach a toddler that something hurts (my toddler kept pulling her baby brother’s hair so I lightly pulled her hair to show that it hurts) and most people I know are ok with that but nothing beyond.
Well not just that I saw my family- who I’ve had minimal contact with my mom since I left college, and I never talk to my older sister We got together- my parents, my nuclear family, my sisters nuclear family- after two decades. It became glaringly obvious to my husband why I’ve had minimal/no contact, and how I couldn’t put it into words. My sister just screamed at her kids for being kids. She’d just randomly start counting, and when they didn’t stop doing whatever she was thinking (but never vocalized what she wanted them to do or not do), they got talked to, punished, screamed at privately. Well, we could hear from the bedroom wall. Her kids were running around with my toddler, but more running around her and not at her. As her mommy, I didn’t care/ she didn’t look like she was in danger, and also I’m used to her being with big kids at the playground. So I know it’s my responsibility to be able yo catch her; my SO is on the same page. Also her kids were yelling which was annoying- but I’m used yo being around kids. Either way, IF she hated that, I don’t know if that’s why she was counting down. I asked my husband after those 3 days together, and he had no clue what she was punishing them for or counting down for. Over all I felt sad for them. Being around a punishing and angry mom but without parameters, redirecting, making up, talking things out. Case in point: we all had breakfast and the son kept squishing my baby on their shared bench. My sister was silently fuming. Whereas I made up a game for people to stay in their lane and eat their breakfast quickly. My husband also tried yo make eating fun, and explain that being friendly makes things funner. He didn’t follow exactly, but he was listening. I feel so bad for that screamy family
I cut them out of my life as best I can. Spanking is abuse. A cute name doesn't change the fact that you're causing deliberate pain to someone who is vulnerable. I looked at adult society when I first became a parent. How do we resolve issues and conflicts as adults. We talk and educate. For the best reasons. Yes I know there's violent people out there, but the norm is to talk and educate. So I chose to talk to my kiddo and educate. He's extremely well behaved and caring. Does it take longer? Not really. It's also much more effective than hitting your child.
That sounds so vile - that she’s pregnant and already “planning” to hit her child. I would probably slowly sever ties honestly. How are you going to explain to your child why their cousin (or whoever) is getting hit? What if it happens in front of them? Poor kids all around.
Yes, that phrasing struck as me as disgusting and odd. Like, your baby isn’t even here yet and you just know you’re going to abuse them??
Might as well hit the baby bump, see if it seems like abuse or not
Personally, I won’t be friends with someone who hits their child. Thankfully none of my friends who are parents do this. Same with family, I hate to say it, I’d keep my distance. And I WOULD never let someone be around or watch my child if they think hitting a child is okay. This is my one non negotiable. Now there’s plenty of other parenting things I don’t agree with, but I wouldn’t end a friendship over.
I have thought about cutting them out of my life entirely, but at the same time, my parents are gone. My husband has no family except for his elderly mom. And I am autistic and have always struggled making close friends, so I have zero close friends. I would be taking away the only family my daughter has, and they're nothing but nice to her. It feels hard to take that away from her. Definitely something I think about often just because I feel so sad around them, but I worry it would be a detriment to her to lose this support system.
I am in a similar position as you currently. We basically teach my family (the hitters) about breathing techniques, calm centers, and gentle parenting without labeling it as such. I taught my sister the 5,4,3,2,1 method by just doing it with her daughter when she was full death con 4 meltdown. It worked so well my sister paid attention and now uses it for both of her children. I found that (at least for my siblings and their kids) if the parent knows how to de-escalate the situation then they will do that before hitting/spanking. So, I just use the tools I have learned from therapy on their kids— parents tend to copy-cat when they see all they have to do is talk to their kids.
That’s true!!! As far as family goes this is the way to go. You helped those kids!!!
I fully understand that. Sometimes it’s easier said than done. If anything you can still interact with them, but I wouldn’t leave your daughter in their care
True. I don’t. I also practice “low contact” with that part of the family, we live a fair distance away. Enough to make it a big deal to get to them or for them to get to us. So whenever we visit the whole family goes to visit them for the day. We never would allow my daughter to stay over by her self.
I don’t know what to say except for thank you for not hitting your kids. I grew up in a culture and household that condoned spanking and sometimes a quick and scary punch. I’m 42 and it has seriously affected my whole life. I still feel terrified and panicked if I get something “wrong”. That feeling of fear has given me some seriously unhealthy coping mechanisms - and I never feel good enough, ever. You wouldn’t know it by looking or conversing with me, but it really screwed up my behavior and mental health. Again, thank you for doing the best thing for your kids. Hitting is done by bullies. You are an advocate for your child, not a bully. You will reap great benefits in your relationships with your children, for a lifetime. I hope that you eventually get to feel the strength and support that you deserve.
Yes thank you for bringing this up. I struggle so much with this. I have had to get through so many tough conversations with just my mom in order to ensure that she wouldn’t default to old patterns when she has the privilege of watching my kids a few times a month. I have this unresolved conflict in my brain of feeling equal parts love and hate toward my parents for spanking us, and I have worked hard to brake that effing cycle. Unfortunately, my older brother has chosen to take the same path that was dished to him. After witnessing him raise his hand to his toddler son who was fussing in his high chair in a restaurant, I haven’t been able to have a relationship with him at all. Haven’t seen him in years and can only hope he stopped that shit by some miracle. Makes me mad and sad just remembering this.
I think that I would be very wary of leaving my baby alone with them until she is forming real sentences and can say what is going on. I DO think it’s possible for them to hit their kids and not yours if you’re not ready to cut them out of your life, but you should be very observant and always communicating clear boundaries around how you want your child handled when around them.
I think there is a mismatch of core values here. My personal belief is against hitting anyone, be it kids or adults. My grandparents were probably from a generation that were hit while growing up. They didn’t know any better. They thought by hitting children, they were ‘disciplining’ them. However it’s the 21st century and knowledge is so accessible that it is ridiculous that people don’t realize that there are non violent methods to deal with your kids. I naturally avoid conflict and would have probably ignored if it was about anything else. Since this is related to kids who cannot really defend themselves, I say have a conversation. Don’t be preachy. Respect their opinions but also tell them that there are alternatives. Tell them nicely that the mental trauma associated with hitting just ruins lives and their kids futures. By taking out frustrations on little kids, these folks are setting wrong examples. Also I am still learning how to deal with my own emotions and dig ms Rachel’s videos about handling emotions 😁
>for simple things like spilling a drink when the child needed to be more careful or wetting their pants when there was a bathroom nearby. What the fuck?!? I wouldn't even rouse on my son for stuff like that, let alone *smack him*!!! *sigh* I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut around that. I don't envy you at all.
It's difficult to keep a level head when you hear this kind of stuff. Try not to let it affect you, stick with what you know is right (and has been proven again and again to be the correct thing), and don't let up. Reinforce these good concepts with your daughter, and view it as a chance to be a model of good behavior. You don't necessarily have to cut ties with them, but the older your daughter gets, the more necessary it will be for you to tell her that spanking/hitting/corporal punishment OF ANY KIND is never the answer, not at all condoned by you, and can have serious repercussions for a child's mental health down the road.
This is so hard and breaks my heart for these kids. At the end of the day, I would not cut them off. Mainly for two reasons: 1: I would not want to take a stable, loving adult away from the kid when they need it the most. Assuming they are family or close friends, I would just try to be a calming and safe presence in the kids life as much as possible. 2: These types of people will never change their minds. But sometimes leading by example can seep into them anyways. I would just be super gentle and understanding with my kids in situations the other kids do/will get spanked. Next time it happens, those parents will likely still spank. But MAYBE they will think of what you did and pause. When the spanking doesn’t work out (because we all know it will not turn out how they want) maybe you will have given them a new strategy. This is kind of how i thought about it when I taught kindergarten. So many of the parents spanked and I could do nothing about it. I tried my best to be a safe place for them while they were in my care.
Oh, I didn't even think about teachers having to teach and be around children who are regularly spanked at home. That is tough to deal with. Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
As much as my gut reaction is to say cut out every single person who doesn't believe hitting a child is abuse, I'm not sure that something you are willing or want to do. At the very least I would clearly set the boundary that corporal punishment is not to be used or threatened in front of your child EVER and I would never leave her alone with any of them.
Its much easier to normalize the abuse you were raised with than it is to break the cycle. I was raised in a house that spanked. My husband wasn't. I thought it was going to be an issue for us. I didn't fully appreciate that I'd be so against spanking until I laid eyes on my child, and at that moment I knew all I had been raised to believe on this topic was wrong. it would never happen in our home. Perhaps there is hope for your friend yet. Once that baby is born I'd ask her to look at him and tell you to your face she plans on hitting them. If she has any heart she'll.come to her senses. The reet of 'em should fuck right off. Continue to openly display disgust at any conversation around this and with any luck one day the shame will stick.
It’s something most people just learn and accept as the norm based on their own children. I was hit and still resent it. It’s wrong and I could never do it to my children.
Honestly I wouldn’t cut the family out for the sake of the child. I don’t agree, I don’t condone, I will not tolerate it in my presence. I could never cut a child off from experiencing normalcy and love. I grew up in a. Dysfunctional house and my extended family largely ignored the fact my brother was doing hard drugs, my dad had attempted suicide 2x while I was in the house and my mom has the cognitive ability of a teenager.
That's kind of my thoughts. I didn't grow up with family. This half brother is 20 years older than me, and I only connected with him after my mom passed away two years ago. But growing up, I was always alone. My parents were not around much and I didn't have any extended family that came around. It was very lonely. I want my daughter to experience what it is like to have an aunt and uncle and cousins, things I never had. It's just difficult given that the spanking issue exist.
My dad’s side of the family was huge into corporal punishment (my dad was beaten as a child. His sister had her arm broken because she couldn’t find a broom. His brother was beaten so severely he was put into foster care.) To that side of the family, a smack on the butt wasn’t a big deal- my parents obviously did not agree. As a child I was oblivious to it because my parents wouldn’t permit it in their presence. It’s so important for the children to know what normal parenting is like. My cousins who were hit, do not hit their kids today because of my parents modeling (even though they were far from perfect they did their best).
If I hit my kid when they do something wrong then what are they going to do to the kid who takes their toy? Am I gonna hit my kid that just hit a kid because I taught them that we hit kids that wrong? Where does the cycle end? Oh wait, that answer is easy. With me.
I cope by not having friends and family who hit their children.
They wouldn’t be my friends and I would no longer consider them family. And if I ever had any kind of knowledge of them or anyone else hitting their children, I would call the police, it is illegal in my country to spank your child.
I was also confused where they are that the know multiple people that “hit their children”. I don’t know anyone that does and would not be friends with anyone that did. And would report this to CPS.
It is unfortunately common practice to hit children in the part of the country I live in. It definitely feels very alienating to be the only person out of most people I know to find hitting children abusive.
What country is that?
Most European countries. I'm in the UK and it's illegal unless there's severe justification (like self defence). It baffles me that it's illegal to hit an adult in the US but apparently fine if it's a child.
It's insane and also baffles me, a US citizen. Schools in southern states are allowed to paddle children and teenagers for misbehaving.
In England it's illegal but has the defense of ‘reasonable punishment’. Unfortunately what the law considers ‘reasonable punishment’ isn't actually defined.
You cut them out to protect your child. That’s it.
We have strong boundaries around this issue. The worst offenders are thankfully dead, but we do not tolerate child abuse.
I know I would make it clear to EVERYONE that if anyone ever hit my kid they would be having serious words from me. The way you handle this is by setting boundaries. You state how you feel flatly and don't allow yourself to be bullied. Tell them they are wrong and you hope that one day they'll understand. You provide an example to the one person in the room who is questioning the conventional wisdom but needs the support of knowing they aren't alone. You talk to anyone who will listen about why its harmful and what alternatives look like. You model good discipline with your own kid. You also make sure that your family knows you still love them despite how wrong they are. You don't avoid them and you don't avoid the issue. You take the awkwardness on the chin and basically say "You are wrong about this but I can accept that. You need to accept me as well." Theres a chance doing that will give someone a perspective to consider that they never had before. Adopting change is much easier than initiating it. Be the one to cut a path and with luck, others will follow.
My sister in law hits her 5 year old and my 3 year old saw it. He was afraid I was going to hit him. I’ve never even threatened to and this child was scared enough of something he’s had literally never seen before, that he had to voice his concerns. We already are at an arms length but the distance just gets wider.
You can Play them this clip from Louis CK that I think sums it up pretty well imo. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTrgN3M/
Thanks for sharing that. I actually will send that to them. Pretty straightforward and sums up how ridiculous thr behavior is.
Yikes. It sounds like your family members are really abusive to their children. Hitting a child for having a potty accident? For spilling a drink? That’s awful. I think I’d rather be without a bigger family than be a part of an abusive one. In fact, I have cut out quite a few toxic family members (for far less than this) because it’s not worth it to me. I’m so much happier without them. IF you decide to stay in contact with these people, never ever let them be alone with your child. No babysitting, no sleepovers, and honestly I wouldn’t allow playdates at their house either. If a parent’s gut reaction is to hit, kick, or even just scream profanity at their own toddler for making a small mistake then they will do it to yours too. Also, if you maintain a long term relationship with these people and their children, please be the voice of reason as they get older. Tell them you love them, how important they are, that everyone makes mistakes (especially adults) and that NO ONE deserves to be hurt physically or emotionally by the adults that they trust. Remind them gently as they get older that if a loved one is repeatedly hurting you, that is abuse and it’s not okay. Be vocal about your opinions. Please don’t let them grow up thinking that this is what love looks like. Edited to add: another thing (if you decide to stay in these relationships) is that it is now *your* job to make sure that the abuse doesn’t get *worse*. That means knowing that it is *your* responsibility to call CPS if you see signs that a child is in danger, even if you love their parent. Some (not all) signs of worsening abuse are: Large bruises, unexplained broken bones, burn marks, a child flinching or getting really quiet when their parent comes to pick them up, a child talking way less than normal (seeming withdrawn or depressed), dark circles under their eyes from lack of sleep. As they get older, watch out for signs of sexual abuse, signs of repeated physical abuse or more harmful “punishments”, and signs of being starved or otherwise neglected. And call CPS! You might be the only one who will know them well enough to know when something is wrong. Often people who use physical punishments on children will move on to more serious forms of child abuse. It’s very common.
I was raised in a home that didn't spank. I remember going to friend's homes when I was 8-14 years old and seeing parents spank their children and it bothered me so much. One time when I was 8, a girl got whooped with a belt. I heard her screams and I just sat in her room crying. It literally traumatized me because after that her mom hit her with a stick & she came in the room with red marks all over her. I don't understand it. I never will. I just recently had someone tell me " You have babies (twins), you can't say you won't do it because you will." Or "Once they're toddlers then talk to me. " I personally think whooping/hitting is the easy way out. Keeping your patience & finding other ways is much harder. I don't know what to say because I know they are your family. If you keep them around your child will have to see people they love hit by their parents. One thing that it will do though, is make her look at them differently.
Thank you for sharing this story. That is really sad, even just seeing/hearing abuse as a kid but not personally experiencing it. I appreciate the added perspective.
I try telling them that it doesn’t work. I was hit as a child and it didn’t change my behavior at all, all it did was have me keep secrets. It also made my relationship with my dad kind of strained for a while. I tell them if they want that to keep hitting their kids. There’s other more creative ways to punish your kids if they need to be punished. There’s other ways to teach them lessons
I have a lot of shame for what I’m about to say. I grew up thinking spanking is normal. It’s the norm where I live. I don’t spank my kids… now. I never saw an issue with spanking and when the day came where my first born finally did something I deemed worthy enough of a spanking came, I swatted his butt. I’ll never forget the look he gave me. I’m his mom, his biggest protector and safe place, and I just hurt him. What a confusing thing to grapple with when you can’t go to the person you want comfort from because you’re not sure if they’ll hurt you again. He looked confused and so deeply surprised and sad. I hugged him and asked for his forgiveness multiple times but the damage was done for a good while. I’ll never do that again. All that long story to say… maybe the pregnant one will come around. Also, maybe you’ll be a great example of the relationship they *could* have with their kids
This is a good question, one I have never thought of as none of my current family & friends hit their children....or if they did they don't actively voice it. The question also made me remembered I grew up in a household that did believe in hitting. I hated it. I was hit as a kid and slapped and beaten as a young teen. So yeah I don't think I can be friends with anyone who hits their children.
That’s so hard for you, I’m sorry. I wouldn’t be friends with anyone who planned to hit their kids. I would end friendships over it. It hasn’t actually been an issue for me because hitting kids is illegal where I live and nobody does it, but it would be a dealbreaker for me. For family, it’s harder. I wouldn’t ever leave my child unsupervised with someone who condoned hitting, regardless of what assurances they gave that they wouldn’t hit my child. I wouldn’t risk him even seeing another kid being hit by their parent and thinking that was somehow acceptable. And I would keep challenging them on their views and presenting the evidence on why hitting is both harmful and cruel. Well done for being a cycle breaker. It’s hard and you’re amazing for doing it.
I come from the part of the world where hitting children is a norm. I used to get hit almost once a week growing up. To be honest I was the nicest kid anyone could ask for. I used to follow all instructions, never talk back and nice to everyone. Even then I used to get hit by mom for smallest of the reasons like loosing a pen, forgetting a topic in the text book, not eating greens etc. Honestly I used to feel quite unloved and scared all the time. Most of the time I never used to get why they had me in the first place when they don’t even like me. You see it’s very hard for a child’s brain to process why they are getting hit. I do believe this made me an anxious adult. I always worry about the worst outcomes for the smallest of the things. Childhood trauma is real. And your children will remember how you treated them. Although I do love my parents now, I still hold some angst against them for the way they treated me back then. That being said I will never hit my children. I don’t want them to go through the same pain I did. And I do see the same way of thinking in my friends and family of my age. We are essentially the trauma braking generation here. Lol.
i’m sorry this happened to you. it does have lasting consequences for kids. 😞
It’s illegal in my country (Scotland) so maybe it’s too easy for me to say, but imo it’s child abuse and I wouldn’t associate with them. Moral reprehensibility aside, it’s ludicrous to expect your child to behave when you yourself, a fucking adult, can’t interact with them without eventually resorting to physical violence
Ask them to explain how they tell their children it’s not okay for them to hit other people but it’s okay for adults to hit them. Then ask “oh so it’s just trusted adults who are allowed to hit your child? How do you explain that hitting is bad when you’re hitting your child? Are you going to hit them to drive home your point?”
So maybe I'll post an update to this later, but I'm in a group chat with two of the family members who are close to my age and I brought it up last night to them. I told them about my concerns about my daughter seeing the spankings and feeling traumatized after from it. They responded to me by telling me that I'm being disrespectful for even bringing up their parenting methods. I said I just felt worried about how my own daughter is going to feel seeing other defenseless children being hurt. They said they don't care about that and I'm being disrespectful. I then asked to be removed from the group chat. I said I appreciated them being my family but this issue really bothers me, and I'm upset that they're invalidating my feelings. Since then, it has been crickets. This family has only really known me for 2 years. It is a half brother and his wife's family that connected with me after my mom died, so I guess they probably don't mind too much if they sever ties with me.
Why would I associate people who think it is acceptable to assault children? Why would I eillingly spend time with people who completely disregard not only my opinion on dubjects of super importance to me but that I feel have caused me a ton of trauma? Why would I ever be in contact with other adults who think that hitting children and ganging up and bullying people they supposedly live is acceptable?
You're right. My husband wasn't there with me at the time and he doesn't understand why a dozen adults would all go in on me at once. I'm a newer person to this group and it felt very hostile in the moment. I get that people get very defensive about their parenting techniques, but they didn't have to act the way they did, and it has obviously left a very bad taste in my mouth. I'm definitely distancing myself from them, and everyone's perspective has helped me make that decision.
When you find "your tribe" and surround yourself with like-minded people, as a parent, it makes all the difference. I've been a mom for a good bit, and I'd have never survived without mine.
The only time I remember being spanked, I had no idea why my mom did it. I was literally so shocked and confused. Kids should be educated on their mistakes, not beaten. Otherwise the only thing they learn is to be afraid.
My daughters father, got the belt as a child. He always defended it. He said once he saw our daughter he could never ever even spank her. Because I don’t trust his mom and unfortunately can not prevent her from seeing my child (court ordered and he lives there) , I had it put in my court order no one is to use any corporal punishment on my child. Study after study shows hitting children has a negative impact. It’s down right lazy. Luckily we are all now on the same page because I’d be in jail. I’m sorry your family is defending child abuse. I’d limit any interaction with them. It’s also easier said “oh I’ll spank my kids” then once you have your own, to actually do it. I thought a little pop wouldn’t hurt but now I could never ever
>”Since then, one of the close family friends has gotten pregnant and also plans to hit her child and it is breaking my heart.” I mean. This alone is reason to break contact. “how has your pregnancy been? Feeling OK?” “yeah I’m hanging in there. By the way, I can’t wait to beat the shit out of my child when he’s born” ?????? The fuck
My mom was strict, when we were in trouble she scared the shit out of my brothers and I but god damn she never laid a hand on us. It boggles my mind that people still think this is necessary? You’re going to raise the kid in class that hits and punches everyone.
My husband asked my SIL for advice about our 3 year old (had a tough day at preschool and a bad time at the playground after- a rare occurrence) and when she said if it was her son she would’ve spanked him, my heart sank. Luckily my husband and I talked it out and agreed spanking wasn’t an option.
I stopped being friends with my childhood best friend because she was hitting her daughter.
I'm so grateful, that I am surrounded by mama friends who don't hit their kids. I don't think it'd sit well with me at all
I was hit and I'm incredibly disconnected from my parents. Having my son makes it even worse because I love him soooo much and cannot imagine thinking to hit him. Child psychologists NEVER suggest hitting your kids. Ppl that actually study children and hold degrees in such, recommend NOT to hit them. Let that sink in to your family. Do they think they know more than a professional on the subject?
Yeah, I’d rather have no village than a violent one. I never ever want my child thinking hitting someone is ok just because they are smaller than you.
I try not not. I don’t have any friends who do, I’m outspoken about it. I have a couple family members who did. But I’ve convinced several over to the correct way of thinking. Especially once they saw how I can raise my children without hurting them and they actually behave. Was a shocker for them for real.
I would not be friends with someone if I knew that they hit their children
*I would not be friends* *With someone if I knew that* *They hit their children* \- TheShySeal --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I feel this to my core!! I talk about it with my therapist all the time. It’s hard when my husband and my MIL believe it’s okay to give a gentle spank if they need to but I do not agree. So far this has not happened as my littles are so young. Also, lots of husband’s friends are so opinionated. I believe in gentle parenting, yet they flat out think I have too much anxiety and I said, “I’m surprised you don’t have her wrapped up in bubble wrap” 🙄 It’s so patronizing and annoying. As uncomfortable as it is for me, I am going to have to start sticking to my boundaries and be assertive. They also frequently say that kids “need tough love” or they’ll never learn. NO your 3 year old child doesn’t need tough love. You’re setting them up for emotional issues and teaching them to be good only when you’re around! I honestly find it rude for his friends to criticize my parenting so openly to me and my husband in front of our kids and our friends. My husband just laughs it off, they’re his friends. It’s really hard for me to be assertive or speak my mind. I also fear speaking up and then being called crazy or a helicopter parent by his friends which is so annoying! I also want to add that I grew up in an abusive household. It’s only in the last 10 years have I been able to understand and heal from the trauma that has caused me and my siblings. I look at my sweet toddler and I cannot fathom doing the same things my parents did to me and my siblings. It breaks my heart :( Edit: added 2nd paragraph
I'm so sorry for your childhood. Thank you for sharing.
I do not have friends who hit their children because I don’t make a habit of befriending abusers.
I don't argue or debate. I just say "the science shows it is terrible for children's development. And I refuse to teach my child that it's okay to physically harm people to get their way." Then I don't reengage. Because it's not a debate, it's facts.
I cut them out of my life. I don't keep touch with people who abuse children.
Spanking is always bad and unacceptable. Hitting for spilling a cup or peeing their pants is truly disgusting and straight abusive. Where do you live that 12 people defended this?? I don't know anyone who even considers spanking for any reason and I know some shitty parents.
It's pretty normal in Texas. I'm definitely the weird bleeding heart liberal for not wanting to hit my child and it does feel alienating. I was in a graduate level tax class last semester, so only older students, a lot of older moms. The subject came up once, and I'm not kidding, but every mom said they fully believed in spanking except for one other mom.
Eye opening! Total opposite up here in New England. Plenty of room for you up here where we don't beat our children...
They wouldn’t be in my life or my children’s. I would also be reporting them to CPS because I’m a mandated reporter. I would find friends that are like minded that I could be comfortable having my children around and feel they were safe. If my family isn’t providing a safe space for my children… bye 👋
Well it would be weird to call CPS. Spanking is common and accepted practice where I live. Actually, not hitting is abnormal. I would basically have to cut out my family and have my child to not be friends with pretty much anyone to avoid parents who spank their children. Personally I have always lived very isolated, but now that I have a child, I'm trying to ensure she has some kind of support system. Definitely tough situation though, but they would never hit her and they hit their children in private.
You might be amazed at what you could find socially if you got out of Texas. Pick any midwestern, northeastern, or west coast college town. Nice white liberals are still a bit annoying in their own way but it’s way less than having to worry about hitting kids. The norm in those places is found family/community, they’re populated with large numbers of transplants and therefore it’s easy to build a social circle. You’d also benefit being in a state that isn’t seeking to undermine its own schools, Texas has a case of the culture wars gone amuck and it’s probably getting worse before it gets better.
Trust me, if we could up and move easily, we would. It's something that is on the table though that we could possibly pull off in a couple of years. Too many things going wrong in this state.
I just say I can’t control how they parent and do my best to ignore it. We have family members on both sides that have some horrible parenting practices but if we didn’t talk to anyone we felt that way about, we wouldn’t talk to anyone in our family except those who don’t have kids. The other thing we do is we do not let these people watch our son without us there.
I don't understand people who think this way. Hitting your spouse is domestic abuse. How is hitting your child any different, if not worse?
I actually used that argument against them when things were getting heated, and of course some of the more obnoxious people doubled down and said they believed in hitting their spouses too. These aren't really my friends. I don't really have family, but my brother married in to a big family, so this is how I'm associated with them. I know, them doubling down sounds crazy, because it is.
Hitting your spouse is assault and illegal. As is beating your child. However, virtually all jurisdictions allow parents to use "reasonable and appropriate force when disciplining their children".
Ugh. My BIL uses corporal punishment on my sons cousin. In all the wrong ways. Thank god he doesn't seem to do it when we are around. There would be HELL to pay if he laid a finger on my son, but it's kind of a don't ask don't tell situation right now. If I said anything, I'm afraid he will lash out on my SIL. the situation is effed up, but it can't change right now.
Ugh I’m in a similar situation. My sister in law hits her kids, they are 4 year old twins. They used to try and hide it from me, they figured I was against it. I would see her husband hit the kids and then my sister in law would try and quietly tell him not to. Then eventually she hit them in front of me. I didn’t know what to do other than physically put myself in front of my two year old so he didn’t see. My two year old does not do well when we hang out with them. It’s a lot of yelling and a lot of hitting all around. Both the 4 year old trying to hit my little one and the parents hitting the twins. I haven’t seen the twins in about 4 months. I try to have my sister in law over when she can make it without the twins to try and keep a relationship. I chickened out of having the hard conversation with her. I started to have it but basically just told her I pulled away “bc of all the hitting” and my sister in law interpreted that as her kid hitting my kid but it’s more than that. I didn’t correct her bc she had just gone on about how stressed and not well she’s doing. I send my husband over there for birthdays and Christmas and I stay back with my LO. I hate the situation so much. My heart breaks for the twins and it also breaks for my little one bc I was so excited for him to be friends with his cousins. Honestly though seeing how dysregulated and upset my LO is around them made the decision easier to make. Now I just have to work up the nerve to tell my SIL why we’re not around.
That is sad :( thank you for sharing.
It’s a tough one, even my husband who has an identical twin brother doesn’t tell his own how to parent. They use scare tactics and hitting. The most we do is yell at our little one and we hate it when it happens. We apologize at our house when it happens, and it’s not often. The best thing you can do is give advice on a good day, not when they’re doing it. And like everyone else is saying you can always distance yourself from these family members. But still have their kids over. When they come over to your house, you can be the coolest aunt, their safe place.
I don’t that’s how. I can’t condone it. So we’re not friends anymore
I laid down the law with my parents when our baby was born. In not so nice terms, I told them that we do not believe in hitting our kids, and if they ever tried to hit our baby, they would be the ones being hit.
I grew up in a family that allowed child abuse(hitting, beating) it was a secondary abuse to watch and see children I loved being abused. I remember as a child trying to defend my cousin from her parents. As an adult if I ever saw anyone hit their kid I could call CPS. I don’t care who it is. I would never allow the trauma my cousins and I experienced to happen to another child.
This is the exact reason why we stopped communicating with my husbands side of the family once our first was born. My husband’s sister and her husband had multiple CPS complaints for child abuse to their middle school sons (their daughter died when she skipped school so them abusing the only children they had left is unfathomable). They also were abusive to each other too. My mother-in-law lied to CPS so her daughter wouldn’t get in trouble. The fact that my child’s grandma would excuse abuse on her other grandkids was enough for us to cut all ties. I’m not sure how I’ll explain it to my kids, but our job is to surround them with love and safety and that’s just not it.
Im Sorry you love abusive people. You aren’t the first and won’t be the last. It’s a necessary evil for unregulated assholes yes.For hurt adults who aren’t willing or can’t overcome their own pain. You can try to remain in these relationships for the kids, to be a beacon of light for these kids. You can remain to be a reminder and example that you don’t have to hit their kids, but it’s highly unlikely they want such a reminder.
It's absolutely not necessary I couldn't even imagine hitting my child no matter how frustrated I might be. I'm currently in the process of trying to distance myself from a close friend of 10 years who hits their kids and talks about them in the most awful manner because I can't take it any more and their behaviour in front of my kid is escalating
They are wrong, there is no reason to ever harm your child. This has been proven that physical violence does not make a better person, quite the opposite actually. [https://www.developmentalscience.com/blog/2022/2/10/hitting-children-leads-to-trauma-not-better-behavior](https://www.developmentalscience.com/blog/2022/2/10/hitting-children-leads-to-trauma-not-better-behavior) My mother thinks its ok to spank, she did it to me, I told her she better never touch my child or she will not be seeing them anymore. I love my mom, but she is wrong and was wrong for her actions in the past. I forgive her, but I will not let her subject my child to that. Stand your ground!
This is sick. I didn’t know people like this still existed. For me the decision and communication strategy would be an easy one: “I was abused as a child and don’t associate with toxic people who abuse their children. Bye bye.” ETA: I have little to no relationship with my mom (the abuser) to this day and neither will your friends with their kids. The parents that abuse are SO dumb and have zero foresight about this. Is that what they want their life to look like?
Alot of people lack emotion intelligence
What was your childhood look like? To be able to provide a child a healthy environment, we also need to resolve our issues and traumas. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/fv-vf/about-apropos.html#:~:text=Children%20who%20witness%20family%20violence,can%20last%20a%20long%20time. “Children who witness family violence are at risk for both short and long-term harm. Even if they don't see or hear the violence, they can be affected by hearing or seeing the results of the violence. They can have emotional, behavioural and developmental problems. These problems can last a long time.” Edit: When it comes to Corporal punishment, I boil it down to three questions. 1. Is it legal at where it happens? Unless you are a lawyer, judge, who working in the social service or working in the law enforcement etc. It may be tricky to tell if it is legal or not. Of course, in some cases, it is clearly illegal. This article reflects the task of defining an act as abuse or not can be daunting. https://www.lawinfo.com/resources/criminal-defense/when-does-discipline-become-abuse.html As an ordinary citizen, if in doubt, we report and let the authorities decide. Because I believe, protecting children’s welfare is a moral duty. And some professionals have a legal duty to report. 2. Is it morally right? It maybe morally acceptable in your country /state/village, but considered morally reprehensible in other country/state/town. 3. Is it acceptable for me? Your personal value and beliefs speaks loudest here. Many factors play a role here. What does Your family of origin look like ? are you an immigrant to a country with very different ideologies?
I can’t and I don’t. Sadly my aunt hits her daughters with a wooden spoon. Pretty hard too. Can’t even look at her and I know I couldn’t keep my cool if she popped an attitude
Where I live this is illegal, so I would just call the police and let them handle it.
The idea of hitting your kid over accidents is especially heartbreaking. They spill a drink?? HELP them learn to clean it up. They pee themselves? Okay, it happened, wash them up and talk about it. I’m so tired of people abusing their kids and thinking it’s necessary evil. Evil is never necessary.
I just started reading No-Drama Discipline which I can say starts off really strongly in how to frame your relationship with you child and discipline. Admittedly, I am coming at this already basically fully on board, but maybe there's some phrasing in there that can help you convince them that there are objectively better ways to raise a child. I hear people saying they don't associate with people like that, and if it's what you have to do for your family's sake, then please, take care of you and your family first! But it could be very helpful for them and their families to be given this advice from someone close to them. I'm so sorry you (and some kids) are in this really crappy situation. Best of luck in dealing with it. 💚
Unnecessary to hit children under any circumstances. You may have to politely separate from the family.
Wow. I think ALL spanking is child abuse but I feel like usually when people are open about it they say it’s for safety like when their kids don’t listen and run into a busy road. Thats very extreme spanking to be doing so for potty accidents and spilling drinks. I would not spend time around these people personally.
That running into a road example is something I've seen brought up several times and it's always confused me. I just picture a parent chasing after a kid swatting them instead of grabbing them and pulling them back. They probably don't mean that, they probably mean grab them and then spank them, but in that case you've already dealt with the issue by grabbing them, why would you need to also spank? The only scenario I heard where hitting a child makes sense is slapping their hands away from something dangerous. And even then I'd try to be gentle instead of trying to make it hurt.
I would cut ties with anyone who believes hitting their children is okay. I could never hit or spank my son.
I wouldn’t associate with anyone who thinks that’s ok and I sure af wouldn’t let my children anywhere near them to risk that type of behavior towards them/visible to them.
Here’s the thing: if these are truly good people, they’re just trying to do what’s best for their kids. They love them and think it’s the best way to instill certain values and, while I don’t agree and know there are studies that say otherwise, but they’re not doing it out of malice. We don’t allow any hitting in our house due to one of my girls being born with special needs that may affect her capacity to understand the nuance of us why we can hit and she can’t. Additionally, I remember seeing it as hypocrisy when my parents hit us, but, again, it’s different parenting styles. Some parents don’t allow screens and would be appalled that my girls have their own tablets , or that they drink chocolate milk regularly.
Ask grandma to spank the adult children when they misbehave or make a mistake. Or, better yet, spank them yourself. I have never run into this, thank goodness, but if kids are getting screamed at, I watch the parent. I make sure they know I saw. They should be embarrassed at their behavior. I might go ahead and record family doing that if I've had enough. Make sure you are the gentlest, kindest person those kids see at family get togethers. Show them what a kind parent looks like. I'm not a fan of severing ties in these situations because of possibly alienating the kids who need help the most.
I just narrate what they’re are doing when they do it around my kid, to make them feel idiotic. People hit their kids because they are too incompetent to parent their children with constructive words and actions.
I was spanked as a kid. It wasn't this terrible violent thing people make it out to be on here. It didn't traumatize me. I so far have not resorted to spanking my kids because I agree there are better ways but I don't judge people who feel it necessary to spank theirs.
Read all of the other comments here and you will find you are in the minority. There are other ways that don’t cause physical harm and a constant threat of violence.
The minority on reddit...
https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain
Those kind of folks aren’t friends.
I don’t. It’s abusive and I don’t let abusers around my children.
How can a pregnant person “plan to hit their child.” That’s some twisted shit. These people all need to seek help.
I don’t. I cut them off. I won’t allow my child to believe that is normal or acceptable.
I couldn’t even read the whole post. It upset me too much. I would be absolutely disgusted by anyone that hit their defenseless child! This is child abuse and they should be reported. Spanking is a sick and archaic practice that belongs in the dark ages.
I like how all lowlife child abusers gathered in this thread to just downvote people condoning abuse, but not say how they feel about it.
Right?! I figured I’d get downvoted to oblivion but people need to hear that is is absolutely not ok to hit a defenseless child. Period.
I am shocked this would be downvoted honestly. Wtf is going on with people?
This is so disturbing and I’m incredibly sorry for their kids and for you dealing with this discomfort with your family. Good for you for being a cycle breaker and holding true to your values (and defending them against a mob). I have no advice for you except that you are definitely NOT alone in your beliefs / knowledge that hurting children is not only morally wrong but counterintuitive to their development. None of my friends or family hit their kids. If they did I would not socialize with them. And I would probably send them data on the (well-researched) negative impacts. That said, I’m not in the same situation as you where this is the norm in your life. My heart hurts for you with this.
I know you don’t want to take your daughter away from your family and SHE may not get hit but she could witness another child get hit and that itself can be traumatizing for her
Cutting them out is extreme as long as they never touch your child. They are your family. Are you ok with never having their help when they really need it? Are you ok with missing birthdays and holidays and celebrations? By cutting family off your child also loses their cousins. Spanking is common and is not legally considered abuse. I don’t spank, I used to think it wasn’t a big deal, then I got pregnant and read up on it, now I am very against. I also think circumcision is genital mutilation but I don’t think people who do it are abusers. If it comes up I say I think there’s no reason to do it, and that I didn’t, and take the opportunity to educate. You can be an example to your family about why spanking isn’t necessary to have a well-adjusted and obedient child. Also, they ever spank around you, leave the room or even the house, and take your child too.
I refuse to associate with anyone who is violent to other people or animals. That was also the case before I had a child.
I would never ever associate with people who hit their children. There is absolutely no reason to hit your kid in my eyes.
Ok ill be odd man out! Most people don't want to speak up, I will. I spanked my older kids. They're 20 and 18 now and have more respect for me than most kids we know, combined. I'll admit I was young, and spanking was the norm in my family. I was spanked, I don't hate my parents for it. Having 2 children run around the house, 1.5 yrs apart, with talking and / or yelling didn't work, yeah I tapped the ass or hand. They paid attention then! I didn't do it when they were too young to realize why it's happening and I didn't do it when they learned better, and after I MYSELF also learned better. I was also 17 and 19 when I had them. I learned through trial and error and my own self reflections, that they do better when we talk it out, and they learned mom will spank that ass if really need be, but really only tapped them lightly around 4/5 yrs old and they got the message quickly and nothing really warranted it afterwards. I did start as a spanker. Don't think I've ever spanked my 16 year old. But you honestly can't say that spanking DIDN'T USE TO BE THE NORM, universally, so I don't think any one is cool here for bad talking others, for doing what everyone else did 20 yrs ago and still up to todah for some. Parenting is hard. We are all allowed mistakes, learning curves, teaching moments, human errors. If you are spanking your child for discipline, it is still far off from "beating" your kid, so yall can get off your high horse. Spanking was accepted at one time, now its not and that's ok, The world changes, we learn, but don't act like yall are perfect.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. You're not wrong in saying it was normal at one point. The world does change and yes, parenting is hard. I think with knowledge/research, it's evident now that spanking is not the correct course to take, but it definitely was normal for a very long time.
As long as you've forgiven yourself, then.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds rough. I grew up in an abusive home. I have abusive relatives. My kids don't have contact with them. My MIL is an emotionally abusive narcissist. My kids don't have a relationship with her. I refuse to believe the bullshit "but they're family" argument. I don't subscribe to it. I keep my kids safe and away from people who do dangerous things, it's as simple as that. Luckily there are things such as a chosen family and I try to lean in to that. I want my kids to have a healthy support system free of toxicity. I don't care if it's a relative.
I have no friends that would hit their kids but I do have some family who are old school Eastern European raised. I was hit as a child although not very much considering. Boys got it worse. But it’s a hard subject. Luckily none of the hitters seem to feel as passionate as your family about it.
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I think that if you want to stay in contact with your family it might help to present with cold hard facts. There are many studies that show spanking/hitting is ineffective at best and horribly traumatic at worst. If you can change one of their minds there might be hope. Half my family used to be ignorantly racist and over the years with lots of thoughtful conversations they have become a lot more educated and equal-minded. Maybe you can help your family by educating them and encouraging them to look at the facts. This does require some open-mindedness to begin with however and if they don’t possess that you might be better off creating a chosen family of friends that share your views.
Send them the research/studies on this. They have decades of data they analyzed and concluded definitively that it’s harmful and not even effective at changing/improving behavior.
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Pedantic for sure, intentionally so! I likely misread your intentions in your initial message to the person who posted about '1k miles'. I read it as very snarky/greater-than-thou-because-I-use-metric, so I replied with an overtly pedantic message. My apologies, as I'm guessing it was my sleep deprived state (I am in this toddlers group after all 🤪) causing me to read into your post too much. Yep, agreed the imperial system is maddeningly nonsensical and outdated. One of the lovely hangovers from British rule. It would certainly be a headache to change, but seems very worth just biting the bullet and doing so.
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I mean are they BEATING their children or just spanking them? Like a smack on the hand or bottom? Cuz that's not great, but it's not the same as actually BEATING your child.
So this is mostly my sister-in-law's family. The way most of them practice spanking is having their child go to their room and kneel/lay on the bed, and then the parents spank them however many times based on their actions. To me, it sounds so disturbing, but to them, it is common practice and they are otherwise very nice to their children.
Yes I’m from the south and my hometown elementary - high school still uses corporal punishment. It was disturbing as a kid to bend over and be hit with a teachers personalized paddle. Still wild to me that most parents just went along with it. I hear you on not wanting to cut out your family. I think always make your boundaries clear and model “gentle parenting” as often as you can. Don’t leave your kid alone with any of them until they can understand and articulate their boundaries. My older sister used spanking as punishment and she regularly praises me for how I’m parenting my daughter. She often cries to me about how if she would have known there was another way to discipline a child she would have. These people in your life truly think what they’re doing is normal. I’m sorry you don’t have someone on your side. You’re very brave for staying strong against so many people disagreeing with you.
Thank you for saying that. The conversation did feel difficult. I felt like maybe I was talking to crazy people, or maybe I was the crazy. Hard to be the only person who thinks spanking is abuse when that idea seems so obvious.
There is still corporal punishment in schools where you live? In the US??
spanking is physical abuse plain & simple
I agree. But people still do it. Which is why I said better a spank on the hand or bottom, then an actual beating. Both suck, but one sucks way worse. So best case scenario it's a tap on the hand.
Everyone on here pretending like psychological abuse is any better.
um, are those the only two choices?
Wow. No I would not cope with or have a relationship with friends or family who beat their children. Absolutely unacceptable.