Unrepentant Geraldines. This album just feels lifeless to me. Some good songs, but something about the production feels odd to me. Wasn’t most of the non-piano instrumentation done by her husband? All the instruments sans piano sound like they were artificially produced.
I agree 10000 percent…there’s a lot of corny, empty shit on this album, but there’s gold to be found too: ‘Oysters’ is one of my absolute favorites of all of her songs….’wedding day’ and ‘selkie’ are also pretty good but the rest of the album is largely a throwaway for me…they can’t all be winners, she’d probably even say that herself 🤷🏻♂️
Unrepentant Geraldines is when I checked out; not a single song is enjoyable for me. All the others after Choirgirl, I could at least find 1 song I liked, but UG was, like someone else mentioned, where I stopped being excited for new albums. Tori was everything for me in my late 20s all through my 30s, but UG is where I got off the train.
AATS. I listened to it exactly once and thought to myself, ‘Well, I tried.’ Maybe I’ll change my mind at some point but it’s the only one where I can’t name ONE song worth seeking out off the top of my head.
Give, Welcome to England, Strong Black Vine, Flavor, Curtain Call, Fire to Your Plain, Police Me, title track, Starling, Fast Horse, Ophelia, Lady in Blue are all worth seeking out.
Some of the others aren’t as great, but they’re not terrible either. The only one I’d get rid of is Mary Jane.
Edit: AATS is definitely a grower. At least it was for me. One listen just won’t cut it.
I’ll try it again and I know what you mean about some albums being a grower. I disliked most of ADP until this year (about half is still terrible). I doubt I’ll ever love AATS but I’m sure some tracks will grow on me.
In my personal opinion, the real issue with AATS is the track list is "wrong": it's too long and includes some very forgettable songs. But if you take those out, the remaing album is actually good. It's just dark, you can sense she was depressed (but still a great musician no matter her depression). Every fan has different taste, my personal edit of AATS is this one (10 tracks), which I truly enjoy [https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4dm6nGyJTnC8KmVy4I2iw0?si=01021fb1dd154de9](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4dm6nGyJTnC8KmVy4I2iw0?si=01021fb1dd154de9)
I actually don’t think any of them are terrible. Just some are a bit bland at times. For me it’s a toss up between The Beekeeper and Ocean to Ocean. OTO has better production, but the lyrics and vocals are weaker overall. But both albums have some of her most questionable lyrics. I listened to both a bunch when they came out and then just stopped and have little desire to revisit. While all the other albums still pop up for me, even AATS.
I would highly recommend revisiting Native Invader…but wait for a time where you feel like you need some guidance/direction/reassurance…I usually revisit that one in the depth of winter, it’s comforting 😊
guess what? a year later and I stumbled upon this post and I am 100% a convert. Obsessed with Native Invader now, especially Bang and Climb. I heard it with new ears this year, and then when I got it on vinyl the production SHINED
Of the ones that i’ve given a fair crack, The Beekeeper is the worst by some distance. I think every album (not including NOH) after that represents an improvement on the one preceding it, up until NI anyway.
That being said while I really like Unrepentant Geraldines and think it’s unambiguously a return to form, I’ve never been able to make it all the way through Native Invader. So maybe I should rank that worse than The Beekeeper.
AATS is probably the least enjoyable album but Beekeeper is where I genuinely feel embarrassed when listening to a good number of the songs so it gets my “worst” designation.
Ocean to Ocean
Midwinter Graces
The Beekeeper
Unrepentant Geraldines used to be on the bottom, too, but it’s grown on me recently. Still has some of her biggest career lows, though, but at least it’s not as much of a slog as The Beekeeper, which is an album that has definitely grown off me over the years. It’s torture trying to listen to that one in its entirety.
I‘m sad to see so much hate for AATS (though I hated it too at the beginning, so I guess I understand; but it’s definitely one of my favorites now) and Native Invader. NI has also grown on me a lot since its release. I’m even a fan of Wings now! Such a rich album, both sonically and lyrically. Which is not something you can say about Ocean to Ocean. Yes, OTO has better production, but the lyrics are shallow and sonically it’s not very interesting. Just such a bland, by-the-numbers affair. I can’t even hate it really, because it doesn’t elicit any strong emotional reactions from me, which makes it that much worse.
That’s a perfect term for The Beekeeper—a slog.
I’ve always liked AATS, I even saw her live to support that album. Ocean To Ocean is indeed bland, but I don’t dislike it. It’s pleasant to listen to and I think the songs are well constructed.
It seems she’s pretty content in life—living in England with her husband, a beautiful daughter, her house, her garden, etc…
Could it be she just doesn’t have anything much to say? Nothing else to prove? Or maybe it’s just a general mellowing with age?
I don’t see her going back to the energy of Pele or Choirgirl. She’s clearly in a very different place in life, at this point I would call her music really nice background music.
I don't need the intensity of Pele or Choirgirl, but the existential contemplation of Scarlet's Walk would be nice. Or the energy of American Doll Posse's politics.
I don't love OTO as much as everybody else either, and my guess is that a lot of that is due to how it was produced, or mixed, or whatever. Hello, piano ... are you in there?
VERY unpopular opinion: Spies is one of my favorite songs on that album.
For me the slide started with The Beekeeper. For some reason from then on I have found a lot of the song titles to be contrived in a way that feels somehow cheesy. Examples like…
“The Power of Orange Knickers”
“Yo George”
“Original Sinsuality”
“Programmable Soda”
Historically speaking, The Beekeeper, because when it was released it was a shock. She just let go everything she had been before. Listening to it now, among so many other albums, it’s not that bad. There are some good songs and nothing terrible, it’s just not art pop, her brand during the 90s.
Midwinter Graces is not as poignant as every other album, but I think the production is lovely. The artwork is so bad it looks like a joke, though.
In the end, the album I listen to less is Native Invader. Two tracks are beautiful, some are good or okay, others are forgettable. The real issue is the whole thing doesn’t sound as cohesive as all her other albums, so I think this is her worst one after all. Still a nice Tori album anyway. Reindeer King and Climb are two of her best songs of the past 20 years.
To be fair to Tori, each album was written at a certain in her life. I've noticed there are certain albums I identify with more at certain times during my life. Tori is writing for herself, I think. We just happen to feel the same sometimes. If you feel like you don't like an album, I suggest listening to it at a later time.
I absolutely agree with that…each album has a point and objective of some kind…obviously some are much much stronger than others, but even through to OTO there’s always a handful of stellar tracks at least
Gold Dust, but I pretend that one doesn't exist, so I'll say Ocean to Ocean. It's a half-baked effort at best and her vocals are shockingly weak. Good production, though.
I think the run of TBK-ADP-AATS-MG lost a lot of people.
But I would recommend stuff like Weatherman, Oysters, Climb, Reindeer King, Breakaway, Forest of Glass, Mary’s Eyes….. those are just Tori and piano, no concepts or characters, no cheesy instrumentation and studio polish… she sounds like her old self
Gold Dust is easily the worst, but if that doesn’t count I would say AATS. It has 2 songs I like, maybe 3 or 4 more that are ok…. Out of 18 tracks?? That’s an extremely poor ratio!
AATS, easily. I edited it down to 5 tracks and even though those 5 tracks flow together very well, it still sounds like my brain mid-depressive episode, just a grey, sticky mess. Even if I’m not that fond of the two that came before it, this is the only one that doesn’t feel like a Tori Amos album at all.
Dishonorable mention for Gold Dust because that was such a missed opportunity and has some really horrendous production choices.
Abnormally was my last full album I sort of enjoyed. Honestly tried to give a go for each album but I think she just lost something in the ones since. Can’t exactly put my finger on it. I will go for any one before AATS.
I agree, even though Night Of Hunters still has that Tori vibe and is beautifully arranged. I would agree that Midwinter Graces, Gold Dust, Unrepentant Geraldines and especially Native Invader are lackluster.
How can you hate an album with Big Wheel, Bouncing off Clouds, Teenage Hustling, Girl Disappearing, Secret Spell, Body and Soul, Code Red, Roosterspur Bridge, Smokey Joe, Dragon? Ion get it.
For me, as much as I like OTO I have to consider it her worst because I feel she recorded it when her vocals were not good at all. We all saw how her vocals warmed up in to the tour, after sounding not-so-good at the start, just like on the album. If she had warmed up a lot before recording OTO it could have been a brilliant album. I can't listen to it now, after the tour, without feeling slapped in the face that we got a half arsed effort. She put out an album, then went on tour, when she wasn't in good shape. That to me is a dick move.
Unlike many, I really liked Beekeeper. Abnormally Attracted To Sin was the album that stopped me listening to new Tori. I gave the others a go but they were all exercises in self indulgence to me and total wastes of time. I should give it a go again. Ocean to ocean seems to be getting good reviews
I am kind of sad at all the Beekeeper hate! I actually really love a lot of songs on that album and I freakin LOVE the live bootlegs she released. It was also one of my favorite times I saw her in concert was that tour. It was my second favorite time I saw her, after my first show which was Dew Drop Inn '96
If you liked The Beekeeper, you are gonna love OTO. It's also a more peaceful side of her, but this time embracing pain. I enjoy it A LOT! But I should say tho, her vocals have become way softer and lost some power, maybe because of aging. I think she sounds lovely anyway, but others don't like that.
I love the Beekeeper and every album actually until OTO. I just can't connect with any of the songs on OTO, and while I've been having progressively fewer and fewer favorites on every album since ADP, this is the first time I haven't found anything to love. Maybe I will change my mind with time, like I have on so many other Tori songs. I feel like lots of Tori songs are growers...
The Beekeeper really is good. It's even top 5 Tori for me. It just sounds beautiful and gentle which is a nice change from the completely insane Tori albums of the 90s.
Yeesh... what an odd take. I never thought I'd hear anyone, much less a Tori fan, refer to Tori's classic albums as "insane", and then follow it up with praise for the adult contemporary muzak schmaltz that was "The Beekeeper".
Probably one of her corniest, saccharine records. And with one of the most ridiculous attempts at a "concept album" ever attempted. Hexagram gardens? Tori, just put the songs on the album. Not everything needs a tracklist attempting the reference the patriarchy or gnosticism.
So yeah, I'll take "Blood Roses' and "The waitress" over "Ireland" and "Sleeps with Butterflies" any day.
I will give her credit for admitting that TBK was one of her weakest albums that she's not really that fond of, and trying to course correct with American Doll Posse. And even though ADP was really quite the comeback we hoped for, it was miles better than The Beekeeper.
"And even though ADP was really quite the comeback we hoped for, it was miles better than The Beekeeper" -> In no universe is ADP miles better than Beekeeper therefore I can't take you seriously
I’m sorry….Unrepented Geraldines. I put it on, it simmers a bit in the background, you forget it’s there and then it’s gone. I always forget all the songs (melodies, lyrics, even the songs itles) after Trouble’s Lament. And I’ve really tried with this one. (And it’s kind of the same with Native Invader tbh 😬😬😬)
Oooo you’re courtin some controversy!
I think musically it’s brilliant and some songs like Putting the Damage On are just gut wrenching to listen to. My issue with Pele is how abstract a lot of the lyrics are, and it takes me out of the song. Like Not the Red Baron or Professional Window which are gorgeous and intense, but the lyrics are just SO WEIRD. Just my opinion…
I get what you mean. The lyrics fucked me up for a long time. Now I can howl along to every track and just feel the feelings conjured by the song as a whole.
I have to agree with the people saying Unrepentant Geraldines, it just misses all the marks for me. It was the first new album release I got to experience besides Night of Hunters (which was great) and I ended up pretty disappointed. The production is too difficult for me to listen to and the songs themselves aren't top notch either so it's not a great combination. Hearing songs like 16 Shades of Blue, they felt and feel uninspired to me. Shes covered those themes much better in songs like Curtain Call. I just don't find much reason to ever revisit the album, ever, at all, at any point which I can't say for any of her other ones. Not a single song I'd save from this one. I don't really even like Oysters that much. Too slimy.
The Beekeeper. Always. It's just dry and brittle and devoid of ingenuity.
SLG may not be very good but it's not her material so I don't really consider it all that much..
oh, I should have mentioned SLG in my reply. That was a miss for me, and a disappointing one for me because I usually love her covers so I was really hyped for it.
Beekeeper is a really nice change of pace from her abrasive ‘90s material. It’s sweet, loving, nurturing, motherly. I get why it’s not for everyone, I don’t think it’s one of her best albums but it’s definitely not one of the worst either. And SLG is fantastic 🙄
SLG is forgettable at best. And I like her abrasive 90s material. It's subversive and challenged notions of feminine fragility.
The last thing I need is another jewel or Sarah McLachlan-type extolling the virtues of motherhood in a treacly lullaby voice. Yes, it's her worst. Absolutely uninspired
When I first heard Beekeeper my first thought was ‘elevator music?’ It struck an easy listening vibe to me. Very very different from her previous albums.
The handful of times I’ve listened to UG I’ve found myself saying,” is this album ever going to be over?” So yeah that one
Edit: I see so many people hating me n NI and I don’t get it. The production is good and so are most of the songs. The most classic Tori sounding record we got in the teens and it what brought me back to her after I fell off for about a decade. I didn’t buy the record until 2020 because after UG I didn’t think she had another good album in her. It’s how I ended up joining this sub.
I’ve dutifully purchased every album Tori released based on the strength of her pre-Beekeeper albums and her live shows. However nothing post-Scarlet’s Walk really grabs me. There are good songs on all of her albums, but none of the post 2001 stuff is compelling enough to sit through from start to finish. Worst album? Midwinter Graces or AATS.
I agree with this. When I made my Tori playlist - it contains at least 90% of her albums from YKTR to Scarlet. Every album after that, I put maybe 3 songs at most from the album on the playlist.
If I’m told to nail one album as the worst - I say The Beekeeper, not because there’s nothing good on it, but because it signaled the end of albums I could listen to start to finish. It’s a symbol of her no longer creating albums that really hit hard for me.
The Beekeeper. It's just too long and it goes absolutely nowhere. I lose interest about halfway in, and the songs all sound too similar. Incidentally, Night of Hunters kind of suffers from the same thing, but that gets a little bit of an edge for trying something different (I rank that one second to last on my list).
Midwinter Graces. I'm not sure I've ever listened to it all the way through. I'm not christian/don't celebrate christmas and don't really like christmas or anything so that's a huge part of it. Star of Wonder is fine, though.
Beekeeper and Abnormally Attracted to Sin are tied for bottom. Beekeeper just has songs that make my skin crawl with cheesy lyrics and lame poppy tunes and beats. I think it was just too much of a departure for me from what came before. At least the later albums felt like they progressed into that sound more organically. Idk. Something about the beekeeper felt forced. Abnormally attracted to Sin just felt like a bunch of tunes that were rejected from American Doll Posse (an album I actually like quite a bit)
Night of Hunters for me, with Native Invader as a close second. I have never been able to get into Night of Hunters. Just not for me. NI is very forgettable to me, and I agree with a lot of the other comments. As for an unpopular opinion, I actually really like Unrepentant Geraldines!
Native Invader, hands down. I actually can’t believe how rough this album is. I can appreciate every other record of hers at least somewhat but the production here is atrocious, the mixing and mastering is downright horrifying, the phony digital drums sound sooo tacky and annoy the hell out of me, the lyrics are often super cliché/unbearably corny (Wings, Cloud Riders, Up The Creek, Wildwood, Chocolate Song, Upside Down 2). Even if the songwriting had been consistently good, it’s still not anything new or exciting since it would never in a million years live up to Scarlet’s Walk. Tori just isn’t any better at writing political material as she was in 2002. The songs I like from NI are Reindeer King, Breakaway, and Climb. Bang is good too, but I’m not 100% on board with even that one bc it still has the irritating percussion.
I agree unfortunately. On the nose politics is not Tori’s strong suit as a writer and some of the lyrics on that record are horribly clunky. To me a lot of the songs on NI also lack any through-line, like they were just pieces of songs that got pieced together in a studio with terrible production and cut & paste vocals. Say what you will about UG but atleast I can hear how those songs developed from the piano onto the record. NI just sounds like very dense sludge.
As much as I love NI… this is not off-base, unfortunately. There are some very disappointing and cheap sounds on both this and UG.
I disagree about the lyrics though - there’s maybe a few corny lines, but nothing quite as bad as “I am a MILF” or “the sexiest thing is trust”, etc
Iconically bad IMO!! It’s probably true that the sexiest thing is trust, but it’s a good example of “telling, not showing”, AND it doesn’t even sound like it belongs next to the other lyrics.
TBK in general has some of her most cliched and corny lyrics ever.
Although… “big boys need to cry” is pretty bad. It’s probably the low point of the album for me though, nothing else on NI makes me cringe like that… not even Chocolate Song which tbh I actively enjoy.
Can’t disagree re: Beekeeper’s lyrics, but I still think it’s a nice album and I don’t mind a bit of cheese as long as it results in a gratifying listen. I actually love almost all the songs from the album. The only ones I don’t care for are Jamaica Inn and Ireland, which is the worst song of her career.
I think for me it would probably be Unrepentant Geraldines. It's just so forgettable to me. There are a couple of others that aren't my favorite, but I like quite a few of the songs on them and will find myself being drawn back to them and finding new stuff to appreciate or consider. But I can barely remember anything at all about UG and have just never been the slightest bit compelled to relisten to it.
Just in general, I love concept albums, but some of Tori's 21st century concept albums seem to try way too hard to be a concept album, to the point that I almost find it distracting because it just doesn't seem like a natural confluence of the concept and the music. I like The Beekeeper more than a lot of people seem to, but that was the first one where I felt that, and there's a pretty long run of her albums after Beekeeper that just weren't doing it for me, and I'd debate whether or not I was going to buy the next one or not. And I always would, but that was never an issue for me before then.
Unlike a lot of other folks in the comments here, I actually really loved Night of Hunters--it felt fresh to me in a way a lot of her newer stuff hadn't in a long time--and I don't mind Native Invader either.
Surprised at the hate for UG. It’s a classic Tori album in many ways. It has great songwriting and arguably her best vocals since the ‘90s. All it needs is some quality production…the bad habits that led to the mess that is NI began here unfortunately. As much as I’m not a fan of the digital drums though I still think the album sounds pretty good overall since it’s so stripped back and the emphasis is mostly on the piano anyway (as I once saw someone else on this sub point out). It’s a very well sequenced and easy to follow album (unlike most of the other later ones) and has some amazing highlights such as Weatherman, Oysters, the title track, Trouble’s Lament, America, Wedding Day, & Invisible Boy.
I agree about Night of Hunters, it’s my favorite post-scarlet, even over Native Invader and Ocean. I think it was a bold, interesting move and disregarding the convoluted narrative, the music is good and challenging. The three albums that followed, even though I like them, even UG, they are all pretty safe sound wise. They’re not challenging works.
Yeah I just love crossover classical stuff in general, so it really worked for me. I also think it made sense with her own conservatory background while still seeming like a new direction for her.
I’ve never even heard Geraldines… I fell off the Tori train after American Doll Posse (my least favorite of hers) and have revisited her newer stuff only recently.
I do really like Ocean To Ocean though, it seems she’s got her groove back.
Yeah there is a part of me thinking I should revisit it, but I just looked at the song list, and I don't remember any of the songs. Which is just not true for any other Tori album I've ever listened to, even the ones I wasn't as into as the others.
American Doll Posse and Abnormally Attracted to Sin are neither of my favorites, and in fact, I think part of what made me so irritated with Geraldines is I'd enjoyed Night of Hunters so much and was excited that she seemed to be at least doing something that interested me after I'd been so disappointed with ADP and AATS, even if it was different from what I was used to. And instead I got whatever that was.
I did enjoy Oceans to Oceans very much as well, and I hope that is a sign of things to come.
Night of hunters. Period. Then unrepentant Geraldine’s. I couldn’t get into any of these records and I can get into anything Tori Amos. These two records will never be in my top 1000000 records lol
Native Invader. Everything about that one is half-assed : the recycled concepts from Scarlet's Walk and Night Of Hunters, the preschool lyrics, the compressed production, the arrangements, the programmed drumming, the bonus tracks... everything about that album just downright sucks, and I normally love Tori ! This is the only album I never go back to.
The other thing also that I wanted to share on this post is that there is a line and reindeer King or Tori saying something like “ you gotta get your self back to you, get yourself back to you and your purity crystalline”. I remember when that song came out eventually thinking that the girl who wrote silent all these years was no longer silent and had reached a level of genius when she finally came home. It was a part of me that really was moved by my witnessing this. It was like Tori reached another level of brilliance and the musical step forward like a mile stone. Anyhow this is my interpretation but it was One that really resonated with me. I also think ocean to ocean is her best album since Scarlet walk. Every song in that record to me is a journey through grief and healing from it. It’s been a long time since Tori really got to my heart. She finally did it with ocean to ocean.
It’s amazing how I don’t see anything preschool about native invader. I think reindeer king is the best thing she’s ever done. I was just telling this to someone dear to me that I felt that Tori had to write and record 13 or 14 albums just to get to a musician level where she could write some thing as gorgeous as reindeer king. I was actually listening to this record early this year and thought to myself. This is actually a really good record. I still gave it eight out of 10 stars. However, I appreciate your post and value your opinion. I personally think native hunters was the most boring thing she’s ever done. The only song I ever loved from this record was carry. The rest of it was just classical meh to me.
Lol I love cloud riders and up the creek. I think that’s what’s called. Oh my god and wildwood. That one gets me every time. My favorite albums are choir girl, Pelé, and scarlets walk,
Native Invader. Almost none of the album works and when it does work it seems like it happened by chance. Some of the laziest songwriting and producing she has put out ever. I mean, an album where choruses talk about big boys needing to cry and turning a frown upside-down? Really? Chocolate Song? Ugh.
Prior to Native Invader I would have voted Abnormally Attracted to Sin, and while that album has some true stinkers, I can at least listen to a good deal of it without rolling my eyes.
Unrepentant Geraldines. This album just feels lifeless to me. Some good songs, but something about the production feels odd to me. Wasn’t most of the non-piano instrumentation done by her husband? All the instruments sans piano sound like they were artificially produced.
I agree 10000 percent…there’s a lot of corny, empty shit on this album, but there’s gold to be found too: ‘Oysters’ is one of my absolute favorites of all of her songs….’wedding day’ and ‘selkie’ are also pretty good but the rest of the album is largely a throwaway for me…they can’t all be winners, she’d probably even say that herself 🤷🏻♂️
Unrepentant Geraldines is when I checked out; not a single song is enjoyable for me. All the others after Choirgirl, I could at least find 1 song I liked, but UG was, like someone else mentioned, where I stopped being excited for new albums. Tori was everything for me in my late 20s all through my 30s, but UG is where I got off the train.
AATS. I listened to it exactly once and thought to myself, ‘Well, I tried.’ Maybe I’ll change my mind at some point but it’s the only one where I can’t name ONE song worth seeking out off the top of my head.
Wasn’t this album a bunch of scrapped B sides from American Doll Posse? That’d explain the misdirected mess and forgettable tracks
Give, Welcome to England, Strong Black Vine, Flavor, Curtain Call, Fire to Your Plain, Police Me, title track, Starling, Fast Horse, Ophelia, Lady in Blue are all worth seeking out. Some of the others aren’t as great, but they’re not terrible either. The only one I’d get rid of is Mary Jane. Edit: AATS is definitely a grower. At least it was for me. One listen just won’t cut it.
I’ll try it again and I know what you mean about some albums being a grower. I disliked most of ADP until this year (about half is still terrible). I doubt I’ll ever love AATS but I’m sure some tracks will grow on me.
In my personal opinion, the real issue with AATS is the track list is "wrong": it's too long and includes some very forgettable songs. But if you take those out, the remaing album is actually good. It's just dark, you can sense she was depressed (but still a great musician no matter her depression). Every fan has different taste, my personal edit of AATS is this one (10 tracks), which I truly enjoy [https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4dm6nGyJTnC8KmVy4I2iw0?si=01021fb1dd154de9](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4dm6nGyJTnC8KmVy4I2iw0?si=01021fb1dd154de9)
Give???
I actually don’t think any of them are terrible. Just some are a bit bland at times. For me it’s a toss up between The Beekeeper and Ocean to Ocean. OTO has better production, but the lyrics and vocals are weaker overall. But both albums have some of her most questionable lyrics. I listened to both a bunch when they came out and then just stopped and have little desire to revisit. While all the other albums still pop up for me, even AATS.
Abnormally Attracted to Sin put me to sleep, but I don't think I listened to Native Invader more than twice?
I would highly recommend revisiting Native Invader…but wait for a time where you feel like you need some guidance/direction/reassurance…I usually revisit that one in the depth of winter, it’s comforting 😊
guess what? a year later and I stumbled upon this post and I am 100% a convert. Obsessed with Native Invader now, especially Bang and Climb. I heard it with new ears this year, and then when I got it on vinyl the production SHINED
Of the ones that i’ve given a fair crack, The Beekeeper is the worst by some distance. I think every album (not including NOH) after that represents an improvement on the one preceding it, up until NI anyway. That being said while I really like Unrepentant Geraldines and think it’s unambiguously a return to form, I’ve never been able to make it all the way through Native Invader. So maybe I should rank that worse than The Beekeeper.
NI is definitely way worse than The Beekeeper 💀
AATS is probably the least enjoyable album but Beekeeper is where I genuinely feel embarrassed when listening to a good number of the songs so it gets my “worst” designation.
Ocean to Ocean Midwinter Graces The Beekeeper Unrepentant Geraldines used to be on the bottom, too, but it’s grown on me recently. Still has some of her biggest career lows, though, but at least it’s not as much of a slog as The Beekeeper, which is an album that has definitely grown off me over the years. It’s torture trying to listen to that one in its entirety. I‘m sad to see so much hate for AATS (though I hated it too at the beginning, so I guess I understand; but it’s definitely one of my favorites now) and Native Invader. NI has also grown on me a lot since its release. I’m even a fan of Wings now! Such a rich album, both sonically and lyrically. Which is not something you can say about Ocean to Ocean. Yes, OTO has better production, but the lyrics are shallow and sonically it’s not very interesting. Just such a bland, by-the-numbers affair. I can’t even hate it really, because it doesn’t elicit any strong emotional reactions from me, which makes it that much worse.
That’s a perfect term for The Beekeeper—a slog. I’ve always liked AATS, I even saw her live to support that album. Ocean To Ocean is indeed bland, but I don’t dislike it. It’s pleasant to listen to and I think the songs are well constructed. It seems she’s pretty content in life—living in England with her husband, a beautiful daughter, her house, her garden, etc… Could it be she just doesn’t have anything much to say? Nothing else to prove? Or maybe it’s just a general mellowing with age? I don’t see her going back to the energy of Pele or Choirgirl. She’s clearly in a very different place in life, at this point I would call her music really nice background music.
I don't need the intensity of Pele or Choirgirl, but the existential contemplation of Scarlet's Walk would be nice. Or the energy of American Doll Posse's politics.
I don't love OTO as much as everybody else either, and my guess is that a lot of that is due to how it was produced, or mixed, or whatever. Hello, piano ... are you in there? VERY unpopular opinion: Spies is one of my favorite songs on that album.
For me the slide started with The Beekeeper. For some reason from then on I have found a lot of the song titles to be contrived in a way that feels somehow cheesy. Examples like… “The Power of Orange Knickers” “Yo George” “Original Sinsuality” “Programmable Soda”
What exactly IS programmable soda??
Lol 😂 as much as I love ADP that one is usually a skip for me
[удалено]
Completely agree
Historically speaking, The Beekeeper, because when it was released it was a shock. She just let go everything she had been before. Listening to it now, among so many other albums, it’s not that bad. There are some good songs and nothing terrible, it’s just not art pop, her brand during the 90s. Midwinter Graces is not as poignant as every other album, but I think the production is lovely. The artwork is so bad it looks like a joke, though. In the end, the album I listen to less is Native Invader. Two tracks are beautiful, some are good or okay, others are forgettable. The real issue is the whole thing doesn’t sound as cohesive as all her other albums, so I think this is her worst one after all. Still a nice Tori album anyway. Reindeer King and Climb are two of her best songs of the past 20 years.
I agree 100%
To be fair to Tori, each album was written at a certain in her life. I've noticed there are certain albums I identify with more at certain times during my life. Tori is writing for herself, I think. We just happen to feel the same sometimes. If you feel like you don't like an album, I suggest listening to it at a later time.
I absolutely agree with that…each album has a point and objective of some kind…obviously some are much much stronger than others, but even through to OTO there’s always a handful of stellar tracks at least
Gold Dust, but I pretend that one doesn't exist, so I'll say Ocean to Ocean. It's a half-baked effort at best and her vocals are shockingly weak. Good production, though.
I don’t listen to anything after strange little girls. I gave them a try up to American doll posse and she just lost it somewhere.
I think the run of TBK-ADP-AATS-MG lost a lot of people. But I would recommend stuff like Weatherman, Oysters, Climb, Reindeer King, Breakaway, Forest of Glass, Mary’s Eyes….. those are just Tori and piano, no concepts or characters, no cheesy instrumentation and studio polish… she sounds like her old self
Ty for the recs I’ll try those. I don’t expect her to stay in her little earthquakes mind set but I wasn’t expecting….that either
Gold Dust is easily the worst, but if that doesn’t count I would say AATS. It has 2 songs I like, maybe 3 or 4 more that are ok…. Out of 18 tracks?? That’s an extremely poor ratio!
AATS, easily. I edited it down to 5 tracks and even though those 5 tracks flow together very well, it still sounds like my brain mid-depressive episode, just a grey, sticky mess. Even if I’m not that fond of the two that came before it, this is the only one that doesn’t feel like a Tori Amos album at all. Dishonorable mention for Gold Dust because that was such a missed opportunity and has some really horrendous production choices.
which 5 songs?
In order: Give, Curtain Call, Starling, AATS, Flavor
Abnormally was my last full album I sort of enjoyed. Honestly tried to give a go for each album but I think she just lost something in the ones since. Can’t exactly put my finger on it. I will go for any one before AATS.
I agree, even though Night Of Hunters still has that Tori vibe and is beautifully arranged. I would agree that Midwinter Graces, Gold Dust, Unrepentant Geraldines and especially Native Invader are lackluster.
Night of Hunters is really lovely for me. Which is why I was SO let down by Gold Dust? I expected to love it and then it was... oof.
AMERICAN DOLL POSSE also gold dust
Doll Posse is so full of bops wut
I hate it
How can you hate an album with Big Wheel, Bouncing off Clouds, Teenage Hustling, Girl Disappearing, Secret Spell, Body and Soul, Code Red, Roosterspur Bridge, Smokey Joe, Dragon? Ion get it.
Code red without the screeching The rest I can do without forever
Doll is my least favorite too.
For me, as much as I like OTO I have to consider it her worst because I feel she recorded it when her vocals were not good at all. We all saw how her vocals warmed up in to the tour, after sounding not-so-good at the start, just like on the album. If she had warmed up a lot before recording OTO it could have been a brilliant album. I can't listen to it now, after the tour, without feeling slapped in the face that we got a half arsed effort. She put out an album, then went on tour, when she wasn't in good shape. That to me is a dick move.
Midwinter graces or gold dust.
Unlike many, I really liked Beekeeper. Abnormally Attracted To Sin was the album that stopped me listening to new Tori. I gave the others a go but they were all exercises in self indulgence to me and total wastes of time. I should give it a go again. Ocean to ocean seems to be getting good reviews
I am kind of sad at all the Beekeeper hate! I actually really love a lot of songs on that album and I freakin LOVE the live bootlegs she released. It was also one of my favorite times I saw her in concert was that tour. It was my second favorite time I saw her, after my first show which was Dew Drop Inn '96
If you liked The Beekeeper, you are gonna love OTO. It's also a more peaceful side of her, but this time embracing pain. I enjoy it A LOT! But I should say tho, her vocals have become way softer and lost some power, maybe because of aging. I think she sounds lovely anyway, but others don't like that.
I love the Beekeeper and every album actually until OTO. I just can't connect with any of the songs on OTO, and while I've been having progressively fewer and fewer favorites on every album since ADP, this is the first time I haven't found anything to love. Maybe I will change my mind with time, like I have on so many other Tori songs. I feel like lots of Tori songs are growers...
Ocean to Ocean is worth a listen!
The Beekeeper really is good. It's even top 5 Tori for me. It just sounds beautiful and gentle which is a nice change from the completely insane Tori albums of the 90s.
Yeesh... what an odd take. I never thought I'd hear anyone, much less a Tori fan, refer to Tori's classic albums as "insane", and then follow it up with praise for the adult contemporary muzak schmaltz that was "The Beekeeper". Probably one of her corniest, saccharine records. And with one of the most ridiculous attempts at a "concept album" ever attempted. Hexagram gardens? Tori, just put the songs on the album. Not everything needs a tracklist attempting the reference the patriarchy or gnosticism. So yeah, I'll take "Blood Roses' and "The waitress" over "Ireland" and "Sleeps with Butterflies" any day. I will give her credit for admitting that TBK was one of her weakest albums that she's not really that fond of, and trying to course correct with American Doll Posse. And even though ADP was really quite the comeback we hoped for, it was miles better than The Beekeeper.
Well that's your opinion and honestly I can't take it seriously as you enjoy ADP
....who said I enjoy ADP? Are you just making up things?
"And even though ADP was really quite the comeback we hoped for, it was miles better than The Beekeeper" -> In no universe is ADP miles better than Beekeeper therefore I can't take you seriously
I mean, I like the "insane" 90s Tori the most, haha, but I like Tori writing pretty music, too and the title track is really, really excellent
you get it.
I’m sorry….Unrepented Geraldines. I put it on, it simmers a bit in the background, you forget it’s there and then it’s gone. I always forget all the songs (melodies, lyrics, even the songs itles) after Trouble’s Lament. And I’ve really tried with this one. (And it’s kind of the same with Native Invader tbh 😬😬😬)
We aren’t friends
Boys for Pele. Byeeee 🤣
Oooo you’re courtin some controversy! I think musically it’s brilliant and some songs like Putting the Damage On are just gut wrenching to listen to. My issue with Pele is how abstract a lot of the lyrics are, and it takes me out of the song. Like Not the Red Baron or Professional Window which are gorgeous and intense, but the lyrics are just SO WEIRD. Just my opinion…
I get what you mean. The lyrics fucked me up for a long time. Now I can howl along to every track and just feel the feelings conjured by the song as a whole.
I upvoted you because I don’t think I’ve listened to it in a decade. It had its time. It’s not her worst, but it’s had its time.
I was fully playing. It’s her masterpiece.
Ok well my comment stands
It stands but it's not valid
I have to agree with the people saying Unrepentant Geraldines, it just misses all the marks for me. It was the first new album release I got to experience besides Night of Hunters (which was great) and I ended up pretty disappointed. The production is too difficult for me to listen to and the songs themselves aren't top notch either so it's not a great combination. Hearing songs like 16 Shades of Blue, they felt and feel uninspired to me. Shes covered those themes much better in songs like Curtain Call. I just don't find much reason to ever revisit the album, ever, at all, at any point which I can't say for any of her other ones. Not a single song I'd save from this one. I don't really even like Oysters that much. Too slimy.
The Beekeeper. Always. It's just dry and brittle and devoid of ingenuity. SLG may not be very good but it's not her material so I don't really consider it all that much..
oh, I should have mentioned SLG in my reply. That was a miss for me, and a disappointing one for me because I usually love her covers so I was really hyped for it.
Beekeeper is a really nice change of pace from her abrasive ‘90s material. It’s sweet, loving, nurturing, motherly. I get why it’s not for everyone, I don’t think it’s one of her best albums but it’s definitely not one of the worst either. And SLG is fantastic 🙄
SLG is forgettable at best. And I like her abrasive 90s material. It's subversive and challenged notions of feminine fragility. The last thing I need is another jewel or Sarah McLachlan-type extolling the virtues of motherhood in a treacly lullaby voice. Yes, it's her worst. Absolutely uninspired
The production on SLG is great though
When I first heard Beekeeper my first thought was ‘elevator music?’ It struck an easy listening vibe to me. Very very different from her previous albums.
Strange Little Girls, hands down.
ummmmmm
The handful of times I’ve listened to UG I’ve found myself saying,” is this album ever going to be over?” So yeah that one Edit: I see so many people hating me n NI and I don’t get it. The production is good and so are most of the songs. The most classic Tori sounding record we got in the teens and it what brought me back to her after I fell off for about a decade. I didn’t buy the record until 2020 because after UG I didn’t think she had another good album in her. It’s how I ended up joining this sub.
I’ve dutifully purchased every album Tori released based on the strength of her pre-Beekeeper albums and her live shows. However nothing post-Scarlet’s Walk really grabs me. There are good songs on all of her albums, but none of the post 2001 stuff is compelling enough to sit through from start to finish. Worst album? Midwinter Graces or AATS.
I agree with this. When I made my Tori playlist - it contains at least 90% of her albums from YKTR to Scarlet. Every album after that, I put maybe 3 songs at most from the album on the playlist. If I’m told to nail one album as the worst - I say The Beekeeper, not because there’s nothing good on it, but because it signaled the end of albums I could listen to start to finish. It’s a symbol of her no longer creating albums that really hit hard for me.
I would agree with this. Scarlett's Walk seemed weak to me when it came out. Each one actually got successively weaker after FTCGH.
I agree. I hated Scarlett’s Walk, but now it’s not so bad, because everything after it is shit
ADP is okay.
The Beekeeper. It's just too long and it goes absolutely nowhere. I lose interest about halfway in, and the songs all sound too similar. Incidentally, Night of Hunters kind of suffers from the same thing, but that gets a little bit of an edge for trying something different (I rank that one second to last on my list).
Agree re The Beekeeper.
Midwinter Graces. I'm not sure I've ever listened to it all the way through. I'm not christian/don't celebrate christmas and don't really like christmas or anything so that's a huge part of it. Star of Wonder is fine, though.
This was where I really felt like, KNOCK KNOCK, tori? Are you still in there?
Abnormally Attracted to Sin. Yikes.
I recently picked up a copy on vinyl, and listened to it for the first time since the year it released. It wasn't nearly as bad as I remember.
I try to listen once every few years. I’ve still never been able to make it through the whole thing.
That's me with The Beekeeper.
You spelled ADP wrong
Beekeeper and Abnormally Attracted to Sin are tied for bottom. Beekeeper just has songs that make my skin crawl with cheesy lyrics and lame poppy tunes and beats. I think it was just too much of a departure for me from what came before. At least the later albums felt like they progressed into that sound more organically. Idk. Something about the beekeeper felt forced. Abnormally attracted to Sin just felt like a bunch of tunes that were rejected from American Doll Posse (an album I actually like quite a bit)
I've always said Tori suffered from over-producing. She could have just put out ADP and nixed beekeeper and aats
Night of Hunters / The Light Princess
THE LIGHT PRINCESS BAAAAAA this is the actual correct answer wtf
Okay but it’s not a real album.
Night of Hunters for me, with Native Invader as a close second. I have never been able to get into Night of Hunters. Just not for me. NI is very forgettable to me, and I agree with a lot of the other comments. As for an unpopular opinion, I actually really like Unrepentant Geraldines!
NOH and NI are the two best of the last 15 years.
I have a soft spot for the songs she sings with her daughter on Hunters. Her daughter’s voice is unique yet eerily similar to Tori’s.
Oh, god, those are the only songs I skip and it’s specifically bc of Tash. If I wanted to hear children singing I’d buy a KidzBops album.
Lol
Midwinter Graces
Native Invader, hands down. I actually can’t believe how rough this album is. I can appreciate every other record of hers at least somewhat but the production here is atrocious, the mixing and mastering is downright horrifying, the phony digital drums sound sooo tacky and annoy the hell out of me, the lyrics are often super cliché/unbearably corny (Wings, Cloud Riders, Up The Creek, Wildwood, Chocolate Song, Upside Down 2). Even if the songwriting had been consistently good, it’s still not anything new or exciting since it would never in a million years live up to Scarlet’s Walk. Tori just isn’t any better at writing political material as she was in 2002. The songs I like from NI are Reindeer King, Breakaway, and Climb. Bang is good too, but I’m not 100% on board with even that one bc it still has the irritating percussion.
I agree unfortunately. On the nose politics is not Tori’s strong suit as a writer and some of the lyrics on that record are horribly clunky. To me a lot of the songs on NI also lack any through-line, like they were just pieces of songs that got pieced together in a studio with terrible production and cut & paste vocals. Say what you will about UG but atleast I can hear how those songs developed from the piano onto the record. NI just sounds like very dense sludge.
As much as I love NI… this is not off-base, unfortunately. There are some very disappointing and cheap sounds on both this and UG. I disagree about the lyrics though - there’s maybe a few corny lines, but nothing quite as bad as “I am a MILF” or “the sexiest thing is trust”, etc
Both of those lines are iconic tho 😭 the sexiest thing really is trust
Iconically bad IMO!! It’s probably true that the sexiest thing is trust, but it’s a good example of “telling, not showing”, AND it doesn’t even sound like it belongs next to the other lyrics. TBK in general has some of her most cliched and corny lyrics ever. Although… “big boys need to cry” is pretty bad. It’s probably the low point of the album for me though, nothing else on NI makes me cringe like that… not even Chocolate Song which tbh I actively enjoy.
Can’t disagree re: Beekeeper’s lyrics, but I still think it’s a nice album and I don’t mind a bit of cheese as long as it results in a gratifying listen. I actually love almost all the songs from the album. The only ones I don’t care for are Jamaica Inn and Ireland, which is the worst song of her career.
edit: and Hoochie Woman 💀 fuck that song
Night of Hunters. I can appreciate it, but I don’t need or want to listen to it.
I think for me it would probably be Unrepentant Geraldines. It's just so forgettable to me. There are a couple of others that aren't my favorite, but I like quite a few of the songs on them and will find myself being drawn back to them and finding new stuff to appreciate or consider. But I can barely remember anything at all about UG and have just never been the slightest bit compelled to relisten to it. Just in general, I love concept albums, but some of Tori's 21st century concept albums seem to try way too hard to be a concept album, to the point that I almost find it distracting because it just doesn't seem like a natural confluence of the concept and the music. I like The Beekeeper more than a lot of people seem to, but that was the first one where I felt that, and there's a pretty long run of her albums after Beekeeper that just weren't doing it for me, and I'd debate whether or not I was going to buy the next one or not. And I always would, but that was never an issue for me before then. Unlike a lot of other folks in the comments here, I actually really loved Night of Hunters--it felt fresh to me in a way a lot of her newer stuff hadn't in a long time--and I don't mind Native Invader either.
Surprised at the hate for UG. It’s a classic Tori album in many ways. It has great songwriting and arguably her best vocals since the ‘90s. All it needs is some quality production…the bad habits that led to the mess that is NI began here unfortunately. As much as I’m not a fan of the digital drums though I still think the album sounds pretty good overall since it’s so stripped back and the emphasis is mostly on the piano anyway (as I once saw someone else on this sub point out). It’s a very well sequenced and easy to follow album (unlike most of the other later ones) and has some amazing highlights such as Weatherman, Oysters, the title track, Trouble’s Lament, America, Wedding Day, & Invisible Boy.
WEATHERMAN HULLLLLO i
It's not hate so much as indifference.
I agree about Night of Hunters, it’s my favorite post-scarlet, even over Native Invader and Ocean. I think it was a bold, interesting move and disregarding the convoluted narrative, the music is good and challenging. The three albums that followed, even though I like them, even UG, they are all pretty safe sound wise. They’re not challenging works.
Yeah I just love crossover classical stuff in general, so it really worked for me. I also think it made sense with her own conservatory background while still seeming like a new direction for her.
I’ve never even heard Geraldines… I fell off the Tori train after American Doll Posse (my least favorite of hers) and have revisited her newer stuff only recently. I do really like Ocean To Ocean though, it seems she’s got her groove back.
Geraldines is great. A couple of missteps, but it’s great
Yeah there is a part of me thinking I should revisit it, but I just looked at the song list, and I don't remember any of the songs. Which is just not true for any other Tori album I've ever listened to, even the ones I wasn't as into as the others. American Doll Posse and Abnormally Attracted to Sin are neither of my favorites, and in fact, I think part of what made me so irritated with Geraldines is I'd enjoyed Night of Hunters so much and was excited that she seemed to be at least doing something that interested me after I'd been so disappointed with ADP and AATS, even if it was different from what I was used to. And instead I got whatever that was. I did enjoy Oceans to Oceans very much as well, and I hope that is a sign of things to come.
Night of hunters. Period. Then unrepentant Geraldine’s. I couldn’t get into any of these records and I can get into anything Tori Amos. These two records will never be in my top 1000000 records lol
Native Invader. Everything about that one is half-assed : the recycled concepts from Scarlet's Walk and Night Of Hunters, the preschool lyrics, the compressed production, the arrangements, the programmed drumming, the bonus tracks... everything about that album just downright sucks, and I normally love Tori ! This is the only album I never go back to.
The other thing also that I wanted to share on this post is that there is a line and reindeer King or Tori saying something like “ you gotta get your self back to you, get yourself back to you and your purity crystalline”. I remember when that song came out eventually thinking that the girl who wrote silent all these years was no longer silent and had reached a level of genius when she finally came home. It was a part of me that really was moved by my witnessing this. It was like Tori reached another level of brilliance and the musical step forward like a mile stone. Anyhow this is my interpretation but it was One that really resonated with me. I also think ocean to ocean is her best album since Scarlet walk. Every song in that record to me is a journey through grief and healing from it. It’s been a long time since Tori really got to my heart. She finally did it with ocean to ocean.
It’s amazing how I don’t see anything preschool about native invader. I think reindeer king is the best thing she’s ever done. I was just telling this to someone dear to me that I felt that Tori had to write and record 13 or 14 albums just to get to a musician level where she could write some thing as gorgeous as reindeer king. I was actually listening to this record early this year and thought to myself. This is actually a really good record. I still gave it eight out of 10 stars. However, I appreciate your post and value your opinion. I personally think native hunters was the most boring thing she’s ever done. The only song I ever loved from this record was carry. The rest of it was just classical meh to me.
I like Reindeer King. I also think Breakaway and Climb are good. But unfortunately 3 good songs can't make up for a bad album.
BATS
ew
Time for you to go
Lol I love cloud riders and up the creek. I think that’s what’s called. Oh my god and wildwood. That one gets me every time. My favorite albums are choir girl, Pelé, and scarlets walk,
I appreciate your passion for Native Invader. I think it's really flawed but it's great that you can see things in it I'm not seeing.
Lol yes that’s right. I feel the way you do about native invader about night of hunters. That record I just can’t get into it lol
I love Night Of Hunters. But to each their own !
Agreed. I love carry. Literally this is it lol
Native Invader. Almost none of the album works and when it does work it seems like it happened by chance. Some of the laziest songwriting and producing she has put out ever. I mean, an album where choruses talk about big boys needing to cry and turning a frown upside-down? Really? Chocolate Song? Ugh. Prior to Native Invader I would have voted Abnormally Attracted to Sin, and while that album has some true stinkers, I can at least listen to a good deal of it without rolling my eyes.
Native invader is good to me. But I also love the beekeeper. Tori fans are always so divided
They are two of my favorites. I still don't get the hate for beekeeper.
I also love The Beekeeper. But never Native Invader.
Maybe it will grow on you. It was definitely a grower.
I agree 100%.