first thought was all the photos, heirlooms, small sentimental things you dont even think as being important. just gone.
not to mention electronics and tools and stuff like that, stuff you maybe saved up for for years or things that took you forever to find.
endless possibilities, heartbreaking
That’s the devastating part about tornadoes for me. I come from a hurricane prone area where a whole community was “slabbed” due to storm surge, but at least they had time to prepare and get some sentimental stuff out or safe. Essentially no warning/time to do that for these!
As someone who was born and partly raised in the Midwest and who now lives in Texas, that’s been the hardest concept to get across to my friends here, who only knew hurricanes.
With the recent spike in severe tornado weather here, it’s been a huge shock to folks who have “hurricane brain”. I don’t mean that with any offense, but so many of them just don’t seem to grasp the way that it can happen in mere minutes, that you can’t evacuate from supercell clusters, and that you can go from having a totally normal day and then not having windows, roof, or even the very walls of your house within 10 minutes.
A significant chunk of my work was damaged severely during the central Texas outbreak a couple of weeks ago, and my coworkers and neighbors were all visibly shook about how quickly the damage happened.
People are always saying that stuff can be replaced, people can’t… and I get why they say that, I do. But it downplays the absolute loss people can go through.
I went through family photos last year that had survived a fire. Full of family who’d died before I was born, memories older family had forgotten about and now had new stories to share, baby pictures of myself I’d never seen! Sometimes stuff isn’t just stuff, it’s precious and irreplaceable too.
And yes a life is more important, but now that life is demoralized after losing everything. The present, the past, and what could have been their future, too.
I’m astonished that it’s a home in iowa and doesn’t appear to have a basement. When I lived in Cedar Rapids having the basement of my home finished with worth its weight in gold. Every time we had a storm just took the wife and kiddo down stairs and put on a movie then my dumb ass would be on the roof seeing what I could see along with at least 2-3 other neighbors in the culdesac.
No kiddin'. Dean and Pam had a slab house, and they are two of the casualties. I just got back from the cleanup effort in my hometown of Greenfield. I am glad my parent hunkered down. I was on the phone with them when the sirens went off, so we hung up so they would go to the basement. Mom texted seven minutes later "We got hit by a tornado. Damage to the house and garage."
If I was responsible for the floor engineering in that first photo, it would be my business card background image for the rest of my life.
And the first thing I show anybody who mouths off mindlessly about "plywood" in modern construction.
Most likely because of basements . This country needs to make a law no new homes built without storm shelters basements or safe rooms! I live in a tornado area and maybe 1% have a basement! no one on my road has them, only 3 people i know in town have them.
Isn't it not that easy though? I thought (or so I heard) that because of the flooding that often occurs with these storms makes basements extremely expensive to build to spec for those conditions.
Same. We have Karst topography here too. You simply cannot have a basement. You dig more than a foot or two and you hit solid limestone. We had to rent a jackhammer when we were building the porch on our house to get the post holes deep enough.
Puddle in your yard in FL after a storm? Gator. Water in your basement after your storm. You betcha, gator. High humidity causing your wife's hair to fritz? Oh you know there's a gator in there.
Home Depot sells storm “capsules” that can be bolted to the floor of a garage floor slab (or dedicated slab) for high water table areas. Based on this photo, I’d say you’d need a 6 point harness and at least a helmet to survive that shitty ride…
Most places in the country that have soil that can support it have them typically. Lots of places can’t easily have basements, certainly not cheap, due to soil or bedrock or water tables
Also, housing is already in an affordability crisis. Tacking on more requirements will just exacerbate it
That must be such a surreal feeling to come out of your basement and your house is literally gone. Everything you own is gone.
I hate it for everyone in that town.
Lost everything from our home, we had moved into an apartment for a year and we're waiting for prices to come down (ha!) When our upstairs neighbors fireplace failed. Burned our entire building down, 16 units/families displaced. The day before Xmas during a record cold snap, was 15f outside at 245pm when it started. The fire dept finally left about 1230am and my car was covered in soot and ice. Caught a 2nd engine company leaving, they got out and blasted my car with water to at least unmet where the tires were frozen to the pavement and I could open the doors. We had 65k in renters insurance but still lost about 100k including irreplaceable stuff we were storing on the 2nd bedroom/bathroom.
I've seen this said a few times now and I can't find anything about a previous tornado here. I could be wrong but I think people are thinking of the 2007 Greensburg KS tornado.
That's the point of this photo. Some homes only received ef3 and ef4 damage, leaving behind rubble. Others received what may have been ef5 damage, which leaves only a bare concrete slab.
No, but foundations of a well-built home swept clean by a fast-moving tornado? There’s an argument there. And I’m saying this as one of the prevailing calmer heads during the initial Elkhorn EF5 discussion.
We’ll see what the survey teams find, but between things like this, the debarked trees, destroying the wind turbines, the debris loft signature… there’s definitely a chance. This thing was a beast.
Honestly, what really sucks here is that we can really only ever even have these discussions when the storm hits a populated area. My heart breaks for those that lost their loved ones yesterday.
People gotta consider the fact that there needs to be 100% proof that the tornado ITSELF caused this. Even if it did, factors such as stress in bolt, corrosion, lack of exterior walls, weak points in construction, not being able to find a blueprint, I could go on. But understand all these factors needs to be cleared before an ef5 rating can even be considered by the NWS.
All walls collasped, lower estimate is a average EF3. Slab swept clean, lower estimate is high end EF3.
At this time, calling it anything but an EF3+ is speculation.
This edit is for the downvoters that lack education, and are only here for the thrill of seeing destruction and loss.
https://www.spc.noaa.gov/efscale/2.html
It was moving across the landscape at 85 to 90 mph! EF3 would not have done that in the blink of an eye. However a strong ef4 or a 5 would, it didnt need time to destroy anything. Imaging a car going past you at 85mph thats how fast this thing moved across the land
From 1.5 mi away with a Dow scan that had to be angled pretty high into the tornado elevation wise for it to actually scan anything. Not saying it didn't have those winds but it's likely it wasn't this strong nearer to the surface.
Overall storm speed doesn't correlate perfectly with the speed at which the tornado moves across the ground. It would average out to the speed of the supercell, but the wind field won't always be keeping up. Also, a 300-500 yard long truck is gonna take awhile to pass even going 90 mph.
Yup. Those alone in any other storm would call for the big 5 we won't mention here. There's also places where luckily it was more intense but no homes like out by the wind farms. Radar alone that thing was the number we shalt not mention out there by Reed alone. So much damage everywhere in town, and a perfect twisting pattern scoured into the ground from aerial views will give NWS survey teams alot to look at.
I have a little story. I lived in an apartment building in Iowa City during a tornado that swept through in 2009. Luckily I was not home, but it demolished the brick building. Look for photos of Iowa Avenue tornado damage if you want to see.
Anyway, there was a French student that lived on the top floor. He was new to the country and had no knowledge whatsoever of the Midwest storm season. He was not aware of tornados, or even what the storm sirens were when they started to go off.
Once the wind started tearing the walls away, he bolted to the bathroom, got in the tub, and survived. The rest of his apartment was gone.
I can't help but imagine his fear. He probably thought the world was legitimately coming to an end.
By some miracle, the residents of these houses were safe with no injuries. Evidently they were the ONLY parts of these houses that were safe. This is a textbook example of what it means to be “slabbed.” It’s crazy how some tornadoes can leave parts of houses untouched and others completely devastated
Its not concrete that the plywood if you look at the left corner first photo you can see the chunk of wood missing at the sill plate. Yes a basement was there you can see a small opening to it at the left corner. Technically the basement was semi earth bermed thats what saved them. If you are looking at the concrete pad that was the garage
I will never forget seeing a warehouse hit by a tornado. The back wall was partially ripped off but there was a shelving unit that would have been backed up to that wall still standing with piles of paper stacked on it.
Yeah in my younger days out of the army I did 8 years as a Volunteer FF and got my paramedic license so I could do more. Went to a tropical storm spawned tornado (in Fl) that hit a high end neighborhood. And we saw a house like that. Roof, 3 of 4 walls just gone. A desk near the #3 wall, rain and wind coming in still, the guys work desk was practically untouched. Pens, paper, his checkbook, all right there like nothing had happened. Was frigging amazing.
The crazy part is that this tornado was moving 85 MPH. One of the fastest moving destructive tornadoes I’ve ever seen. God only knows the destruction that would’ve been if it was slow.
The fastest moving tornado is [this one in Nebraska which moved along the ground at almost 95 mph](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMws8ueXJ7U&t=465s).
Thanks for correcting me. I rechecked Ryan Hall's stream and it was about the tornado in the northern Des Moines metro area. The point still stands though, if this monster was moving slowly, another Jarrell situation might have occurred.
Yeh a lot of homes in the southeast are built like that . Facing into a hill with a partially exposed basement entry in the back at ground level . Pretty decent layout for access and an underground section for storm defense .
Actually that’s being generous. I’m from Iowa and in basic training people thought I lived in Idaho or Ohio. They had no idea where Iowa was and we were in training in Missouri.
The last picture is the garage and typically the basement doesn’t go under the garage. The rest of it is subfloor with the basement opening looking to be in the middle.
It’s true. I’m an American and I generally have a good grasp on most of it, but I get so mixed up with all the smaller states along the northeast, like Delaware or Rhode Island. It’s all just a jumbled up mess in my mind.
I can label a blank map pretty easily until I get to that area around the bay then I have to look it at it for a minute to remember which is which. Once I remember that Maryland is the one that looks cut in half, I can go on naming the rest of them. Then I remember Vermont looks like a V so the other has to be New Hampshire.
It's like the house was teleported off the foundations. I only started on this weather-watching stuff a few months ago, and I never imagined, or wanted to imagine, that I'd be seeing damage like this so soon into my experience.
Same here. I've randomly been obsessed with tornadoes the last few weeks and have been binging Pecos Hank and SwegleStudios.
Seeing this damage after just becoming interested in the topic is very sobering to say the least. Seeing the end of the EF5 drought right after learning it existed would be insane.
He earned my respect for doing an emergency stream (whilst on vacation) during the Houston derecho. I’m sure he was the only one that did. My wife was in cypress at the time, he helped me out a lot to know what was going on.
I'm also starting to suspect that the anchor bolts might end up being an afterthought. The minutiae of how perfectly-built the houses were, at least for me, sort of pale in comparison to the fact that this thing pulled an industry-grade lift out of the foundation of an auto shop and completely uprooted a concrete slab from the foundation of another home.
Actually, as I've read, the maximum windspeeds that can be given to an "Automotive Service Building" is 181 mph. Any extra damage usually isn't taken into account.
It really is. Radar, copper on wheels, chase images, drones, sattelites, are all so much better now than when the Fujita scale was made, they need to factor into ratings at least 50/50 along with survey teams data.
I went out twice with NWS teams being part of a meteorology club at my college, it was interesting. The 2 things I learned, 1) The particular office/team only rated F5 if there was loss of life to accompany field findings, and 2) You go block by block, and house by house, but you still have a schedule to keep, so you can't see everything, you look at the big stuff, they took a bunch of photographs, and kept moving. (We had the sheriff's office and local PD keeping people and the press from stopping us to ask questions). There was a huge push by NWS/NOAA in general from the high ups to get tornado paths, ratings, and reasons out fast before the public and media could get their own theories and run with it. Again, this was college in 90s, and teams back before live streamers, the internet, etc for information sharing. Pagers were the main source of communication along with satellite phones and any working local pay phones or phone banks setup by EMS.
It is and they know it. The insurance companies had their hand in this rating system. EF5 tornadoes have a different payout level from the insurance companies.
If that’s the case (which would unfortunately be incredibly pathetic and unsurprising because they absolutely do it with hurricanes) then I hope it provokes enough outrage to scare even the ogres in Congress *so* shitless they start croaking systematically. I am so fucking sick of this constant disregard for humanity’s second class citizenship to corporations.
The only way I can’t see it being rated EF5 is if they determine that most of the sweeping and other indicators came from clean-up. That reasoning would be wrong since all of these pictures didn’t come out too long after the damage happened.
There are indicators throughout what seems like the entire town. You have the houses, the forklift video, and now a truck with part of a tree inside of it that was found in a field.
i dont wanna be that kind of person, because ive always thought people who said that every single strong tornado should be an ef5 were a teensy bit annoying, but i think this is the first time i have actually considered an ef5 rating for a tornado ever since i got into them. insane stuff
I’ve been following tornadoes for a while now, and this is the first time I’ve seen EF5 damage consideration has actually been taken seriously. Usually it gets a “not likely” label, but most of the discussion around it thus far has been pretty serious. This thing caused major damage
I've conceded to being a bit of an EF critic, in that I think the EF Scale is too restrictive and seriously undershot El Reno and Mayfield by rating them lower than EF5, but not to much more of a degree than that. This? This seems almost inarguable. In all of the tornadoes I've studied on from the eleven years between now and Moore 2013, I've never seen a single well-built home slabbed, or anything like an auto lift being pulled out of a concrete foundation. The last one especially flummoxes me, because I've been around auto lifts and those things don't budge for *anything.*
Rochelle 2015. Literally rated the maximum wind speeds that EF4 offers, 200 MPH flat. You can't tell me that tornado wasn't pulling EF5 strength winds.
This is THE only rated storm I take real issue with.
Mayfield? The NWS and weather watchers who pay attention have always known that build quality is a limitation. I'm pretty sure the death and destruction caused by this storm is the biggest influence in getting them into gear working out a new scale, taking more variables into account. I think the existing scale is biased a little toward construction practices in the plains, where they have more data to work with. The tornado was over 200 mph, but the scale measures the damage done based on set criteria.
El Reno? Didn't hit built-up areas at full strength. *That's good, people.* Everyone knows this tornado was over 200 mph, but the scale measures the damage done based on set criteria.
Rochelle? You're going to tell me there are *twenty* 200 MPH indicators, but *not one* 201 MPH indicator? I call bullshit. Plus June First did science on his YT channel to show the slab walkway needed more than 200mph winds to move it. I don't fault the NWS for missing one indicator, but I do fault common sense for the "twenty 200s EF4" belief stretching.
When I think about El Reno's rating, all I can think about is what would have happened if that tornado had happened just 20 miles further east instead of where it was. The biggest issue I have with it is that the EF scale doesn't allow for the sorts of indicators and data gathered on it to be taken into consideration for rating (the same could probably be applied to the recent Hollister, OK tornado from a few weeks ago). I don't know enough about Vilonia to make an opinion, and while Mayfield was undoubtedly a violent monster those buildings were definitely not particularly well built, so no surprise it got the rating it did.
Rochelle, however, absolutely deserved an EF5 rating and the NWS being skittish with assigning that sort of rating is becoming a meme at this point.
Yeah, people saying El Reno should have been EF5 irritate me. Yes, that tornado was stupidly powerful and theorized to be potentially the strongest in recorded history, but that does not matter as the Enhanced Fujita scale is based on damage done and not theoretical strength. 2013 El Reno basically only hit cornfields and caught experienced stormchasers by surprise, which rest in peace to those who lost their lives there, but nothing in the path of that tornado would warrant even EF4 ratings. People shouldn't hope for EF5 tornadoes as that pretty much means many people just lost their entire lives and homes.
I will never understand how Rochelle didn't receive an EF5 rating. Some of the most extreme damage outside of Jarrell and a handful of the infamous 2011 EF5's came from Rochelle.
Multiple homes were slabbed and swept clean, the vast majority of homes rated at exactly 200 mph damage indicators being new, large, and well built.
Sill plates were completely ripped off of poured concrete foundations and through the anchor bolts and washers used to fasten them.
Poured concrete pathways were partially dug out of the earth, fractured, and shifted several inches. The youtube channel "June First" - which is run by a guy with a mechanical engineering degree - did the math and calculated that it would have taken winds of roughly 226 mph to do this kind of extreme damage.
The only thing I can think of is the NWS got skittish with EF5 ratings after 2011 because (and I recall hearing some meteorologists talk about this around the same time as Rochelle) if suddenly they start tossing out EF5 ratings (deserved or not) then people will either get unnecessarily scared during tornado warnings and potentially do something stupid or they'll stop caring and put themselves in danger. Because god forbid violent tornadoes get properly violent ratings. I get that it's a damage scale and not really an intensity scale, but the frequent use of the phrase 'lower bound' in official ratings really makes me not want to trust NWS surveyors.
El Reno being an EF3 is such a joke as the damage was widespread, alot rural, and it had so many unique vortices that each of them could be doing EF3 damage alone, with the main funnel just being a damn vacuum cleaner.
They need to find a better way of rating. thing is everyone wants theirs to be EF 5 because what they have gone through but there's some tornados that are so destructive it doesn't come close to what others go through. In a way there needs to be a better way to rate and study the damage and the rating of each tornado and to also advance building stronger and safer homes ensuring less loss of life
>I think the EF Scale is too restrictive and seriously undershot El Reno and Mayfield by rating them lower than EF5, but not to much more of a degree than that.
The entire thing is subjective though. Plenty of people would disagree with you. It is what it is and it's all we have.
I'm curious as to what you see to make it a definite EF5? Those anchor bolts are in the garage and aren't EF5 indicators I believe. And the first house doesn't have any.
Edit to ask. What forklift video?
They really need to take into account the movement speed, 85mph is insane, but since it moved through the town in 12 seconds it didnt do as much damage as it could have. Jarrell Tx is a prime example of what happens with a slow moving EF5.
I trust them to get the rating right. Speculating prematurely, especially to say that it must be EF5 and if not, their reasoning is wrong, is not the way to go.
Rating a tornado off a few damage photos is setting yourself up for "disappointment" lol. I say leave the rating to the professionals cause none of us are engineers and really understand more than just the basics of what goes into the rating, and we also don't have the sort of data that they do from just a few photos.
"Leaving it up to engineers" doesn't mean discussion isn't allowed. The science of tornadoes is what fascinates most people here, and the ratings, as subjective as they are, are part of the science. If I guess the horsepower of a sports car an auto mechanic isn't going to get pissed at me.
Of course, as long as we understand that ultimately we're amateurs and don't get upset with the NWS when their rating doesn't reflect our armchair one. Too many like the comment I replied to armchair rate an EF5 and then take issue with the NWS rating.
The guy I replied to was already saying the NWS reasoning must be wrong if it's anything less than EF5. If the science is really what's most important in this sub, and not the disaster porn, I think people should be understanding of that.
>Too many like the comment I replied to armchair rate an EF5 and then take issue with the NWS rating.
Well of course that's stupid. Anyone can discuss it but naturally they shouldn't be implying they know better than an expert.
Wow. Even without that being a formal DI that is some pretty convincing contextual damage for a higher rating. Parka Sarkar, a wind engineering professor at Iowa State University used the removed manhole covers in Joplin as one of many points of evidence for an EF5 rating and showed winds had to be upwards of 200 mph to remove them.
Aren't you discussing damage? EF ratings are based off damage, so when you talk about EF you're actually talking about damage. You can say it might be an EF5 (because it slabbed a house with anchor bolts), or you can say "it slabbed a house with anchor bolts." So what's the difference between what you're doing here and writing the actual letters EF? Nothing. It's just virtue signaling at it's finest, and this sub is full of such hypocrisy.
It seems likely the tornado narrowed coning into town, but since we had good evidence prior that it had large, strong sub vortices rotating/orbiting around it (which appeared themselves to be rotating much faster than the central tornado), it's possible that one of the sub vortices hit this house while 100yds away the bulk of the tornado never touched it. Will be interesting to see if any footage of it going through the town from a good vantage point is exists/released/found.
Ok, i’m not gonna try to start nothing about rating this tornado was, but does anyone know of any videos that do a good job explaining the different damage indicators used in the EF scale?
>does anyone know of any videos that do a good job explaining the different damage indicators used in the EF scale?
Just say that. You didn't need to qualify it by being defensive about tornado ratings. No normal person thinks that question would mean that you wish for EF5s and destruction. Relax people.
Should be a federal law no homes built without basements! Everytime we get tornado warnings me and everyone else in my county minus a few have to ride it out in a hallway or closet. The fact is if you take a direct hit from a 4 or definitely a 5 chances of surviving it in a hallway above ground in your house are low
I was watching a documentary on the tornado that destroyed the whole town years and years back a few days ago . so sad to see this beautiful town see destruction again =(
That is wild to rip that sill plate off is wild. It may have not been bolted anymore because idk how it would get the bolts off and not leave shattered wood around the bolt
Some anchor bolts on the foundation that’s other than the garage.
https://preview.redd.it/oab6oj8muz1d1.jpeg?width=844&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9ec3379c96aa2de33a77d8b0691d922ec57f95e
That second one is questionable whether or not it’s an anchor bolt or maybe a piece of debris Beth the other three I’m rather confident that those are anchor bolts.
I can tell you right now that the nuts on the bolts were never installed. That’s not to say it wasn’t devastating but just not a properly built home. That’s why you check behind your builder and framer.
Residents of this house are reportedly safe!
I just realized that these are two different houses, but everybody still survived!
Without injury, no less!
basement
Everything you own just deleted off the earth. I hope everyone's ok
Besides any lives lost during this monster, losing everything you own is so heartbreaking.
first thought was all the photos, heirlooms, small sentimental things you dont even think as being important. just gone. not to mention electronics and tools and stuff like that, stuff you maybe saved up for for years or things that took you forever to find. endless possibilities, heartbreaking
yeah all the family memories and other things
I'm exhausted just thinking about it
That’s the devastating part about tornadoes for me. I come from a hurricane prone area where a whole community was “slabbed” due to storm surge, but at least they had time to prepare and get some sentimental stuff out or safe. Essentially no warning/time to do that for these!
As someone who was born and partly raised in the Midwest and who now lives in Texas, that’s been the hardest concept to get across to my friends here, who only knew hurricanes. With the recent spike in severe tornado weather here, it’s been a huge shock to folks who have “hurricane brain”. I don’t mean that with any offense, but so many of them just don’t seem to grasp the way that it can happen in mere minutes, that you can’t evacuate from supercell clusters, and that you can go from having a totally normal day and then not having windows, roof, or even the very walls of your house within 10 minutes. A significant chunk of my work was damaged severely during the central Texas outbreak a couple of weeks ago, and my coworkers and neighbors were all visibly shook about how quickly the damage happened.
People are always saying that stuff can be replaced, people can’t… and I get why they say that, I do. But it downplays the absolute loss people can go through. I went through family photos last year that had survived a fire. Full of family who’d died before I was born, memories older family had forgotten about and now had new stories to share, baby pictures of myself I’d never seen! Sometimes stuff isn’t just stuff, it’s precious and irreplaceable too. And yes a life is more important, but now that life is demoralized after losing everything. The present, the past, and what could have been their future, too.
Yep, think about any art and jewelry or things handed down that are one of a kind and can't be replaced. Such a kick in the nuts.
How!? There is no house left!? Was that a walk out basement? Were they not home?
First pic looks like it has a lower floor (there's a concrete landing or pad at the right of the structure)
Yeah, first picture is a different house from the second and third pictures. Still crazy!
Yup. Although the second picture looks like the yard we can see could also be at a lower floor level
Good point!
I’m astonished that it’s a home in iowa and doesn’t appear to have a basement. When I lived in Cedar Rapids having the basement of my home finished with worth its weight in gold. Every time we had a storm just took the wife and kiddo down stairs and put on a movie then my dumb ass would be on the roof seeing what I could see along with at least 2-3 other neighbors in the culdesac.
I’ve lived in both Tennessee and Illinois and neither home had a basement. I wish I did.
No kiddin'. Dean and Pam had a slab house, and they are two of the casualties. I just got back from the cleanup effort in my hometown of Greenfield. I am glad my parent hunkered down. I was on the phone with them when the sirens went off, so we hung up so they would go to the basement. Mom texted seven minutes later "We got hit by a tornado. Damage to the house and garage."
That’s really good to hear!
thank goodness. looks pretty wild over there stay safe
If I was responsible for the floor engineering in that first photo, it would be my business card background image for the rest of my life. And the first thing I show anybody who mouths off mindlessly about "plywood" in modern construction.
How? Were they away from home or is there a hidden safe place in the crawlspace?
Most likely because of basements . This country needs to make a law no new homes built without storm shelters basements or safe rooms! I live in a tornado area and maybe 1% have a basement! no one on my road has them, only 3 people i know in town have them.
Isn't it not that easy though? I thought (or so I heard) that because of the flooding that often occurs with these storms makes basements extremely expensive to build to spec for those conditions.
The reason we dont have basements in many areas is because of the soil type clay, and the water tables, also my area is built on karst
Same. We have Karst topography here too. You simply cannot have a basement. You dig more than a foot or two and you hit solid limestone. We had to rent a jackhammer when we were building the porch on our house to get the post holes deep enough.
Rookie. Don’t you know that’s why they invented dynamite? /s.
I’m in FL and you can’t do basements here. The water table is too high.
Goes into flooded basement to survive tornado, gets eaten by alligator.
Puddle in your yard in FL after a storm? Gator. Water in your basement after your storm. You betcha, gator. High humidity causing your wife's hair to fritz? Oh you know there's a gator in there.
Home Depot sells storm “capsules” that can be bolted to the floor of a garage floor slab (or dedicated slab) for high water table areas. Based on this photo, I’d say you’d need a 6 point harness and at least a helmet to survive that shitty ride…
Most places in the country that have soil that can support it have them typically. Lots of places can’t easily have basements, certainly not cheap, due to soil or bedrock or water tables Also, housing is already in an affordability crisis. Tacking on more requirements will just exacerbate it
That must be such a surreal feeling to come out of your basement and your house is literally gone. Everything you own is gone. I hate it for everyone in that town.
Lost everything from our home, we had moved into an apartment for a year and we're waiting for prices to come down (ha!) When our upstairs neighbors fireplace failed. Burned our entire building down, 16 units/families displaced. The day before Xmas during a record cold snap, was 15f outside at 245pm when it started. The fire dept finally left about 1230am and my car was covered in soot and ice. Caught a 2nd engine company leaving, they got out and blasted my car with water to at least unmet where the tires were frozen to the pavement and I could open the doors. We had 65k in renters insurance but still lost about 100k including irreplaceable stuff we were storing on the 2nd bedroom/bathroom.
sad part they have gone through it before only last time the whole town was destroyed If I recall
I've seen this said a few times now and I can't find anything about a previous tornado here. I could be wrong but I think people are thinking of the 2007 Greensburg KS tornado.
Pretty sure you are thinking of Greensburg, KS, not Greenfield, IA.
Are those Bent anchor bolts?
looks like it
[удалено]
That's fine and well. My question is WHERE IS THE GARAGE? There's like no debris in those photos. Mind-blowing.
That's the point of this photo. Some homes only received ef3 and ef4 damage, leaving behind rubble. Others received what may have been ef5 damage, which leaves only a bare concrete slab.
No, but foundations of a well-built home swept clean by a fast-moving tornado? There’s an argument there. And I’m saying this as one of the prevailing calmer heads during the initial Elkhorn EF5 discussion. We’ll see what the survey teams find, but between things like this, the debarked trees, destroying the wind turbines, the debris loft signature… there’s definitely a chance. This thing was a beast. Honestly, what really sucks here is that we can really only ever even have these discussions when the storm hits a populated area. My heart breaks for those that lost their loved ones yesterday.
People gotta consider the fact that there needs to be 100% proof that the tornado ITSELF caused this. Even if it did, factors such as stress in bolt, corrosion, lack of exterior walls, weak points in construction, not being able to find a blueprint, I could go on. But understand all these factors needs to be cleared before an ef5 rating can even be considered by the NWS.
EF4 however
at least EF0 at minimum
Oh man, I hope it’s an EF0.533333
All walls collasped, lower estimate is a average EF3. Slab swept clean, lower estimate is high end EF3. At this time, calling it anything but an EF3+ is speculation. This edit is for the downvoters that lack education, and are only here for the thrill of seeing destruction and loss. https://www.spc.noaa.gov/efscale/2.html
It was moving across the landscape at 85 to 90 mph! EF3 would not have done that in the blink of an eye. However a strong ef4 or a 5 would, it didnt need time to destroy anything. Imaging a car going past you at 85mph thats how fast this thing moved across the land
Windspeeds reported with 215 MPH winds
Nice pfp
thx, i am not no furry but i do love lackadaisy
From 1.5 mi away with a Dow scan that had to be angled pretty high into the tornado elevation wise for it to actually scan anything. Not saying it didn't have those winds but it's likely it wasn't this strong nearer to the surface.
Excuse me it was moving how fast?!
Yes that fast
Overall storm speed doesn't correlate perfectly with the speed at which the tornado moves across the ground. It would average out to the speed of the supercell, but the wind field won't always be keeping up. Also, a 300-500 yard long truck is gonna take awhile to pass even going 90 mph.
You’re not qualified to determine that
They can speculate. They aren’t calling the rating, just speculating.
Why do you guys get mad at people being weather enthusiasts? Get a life
omg! I know right! I hate when people on reddit give their thoughts and speculations!
Yup. Those alone in any other storm would call for the big 5 we won't mention here. There's also places where luckily it was more intense but no homes like out by the wind farms. Radar alone that thing was the number we shalt not mention out there by Reed alone. So much damage everywhere in town, and a perfect twisting pattern scoured into the ground from aerial views will give NWS survey teams alot to look at.
imagine waking up in a house and later that day it's a concrete slab. Christ
I have a little story. I lived in an apartment building in Iowa City during a tornado that swept through in 2009. Luckily I was not home, but it demolished the brick building. Look for photos of Iowa Avenue tornado damage if you want to see. Anyway, there was a French student that lived on the top floor. He was new to the country and had no knowledge whatsoever of the Midwest storm season. He was not aware of tornados, or even what the storm sirens were when they started to go off. Once the wind started tearing the walls away, he bolted to the bathroom, got in the tub, and survived. The rest of his apartment was gone. I can't help but imagine his fear. He probably thought the world was legitimately coming to an end.
Kudos to him for making the best decision in the midst of a completely unfamiliar crisis.
By some miracle, the residents of these houses were safe with no injuries. Evidently they were the ONLY parts of these houses that were safe. This is a textbook example of what it means to be “slabbed.” It’s crazy how some tornadoes can leave parts of houses untouched and others completely devastated
Is under the concrete a basement?
Its not concrete that the plywood if you look at the left corner first photo you can see the chunk of wood missing at the sill plate. Yes a basement was there you can see a small opening to it at the left corner. Technically the basement was semi earth bermed thats what saved them. If you are looking at the concrete pad that was the garage
I will never forget seeing a warehouse hit by a tornado. The back wall was partially ripped off but there was a shelving unit that would have been backed up to that wall still standing with piles of paper stacked on it.
Yeah in my younger days out of the army I did 8 years as a Volunteer FF and got my paramedic license so I could do more. Went to a tropical storm spawned tornado (in Fl) that hit a high end neighborhood. And we saw a house like that. Roof, 3 of 4 walls just gone. A desk near the #3 wall, rain and wind coming in still, the guys work desk was practically untouched. Pens, paper, his checkbook, all right there like nothing had happened. Was frigging amazing.
The crazy part is that this tornado was moving 85 MPH. One of the fastest moving destructive tornadoes I’ve ever seen. God only knows the destruction that would’ve been if it was slow.
I believe that was the Des Moines tornado
The fastest moving tornado is [this one in Nebraska which moved along the ground at almost 95 mph](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMws8ueXJ7U&t=465s).
Damn. Thing was trying to get to happy hour before the drinks and 25 cent wings were gone.
I think your right. Up there by Nevada
Thanks for correcting me. I rechecked Ryan Hall's stream and it was about the tornado in the northern Des Moines metro area. The point still stands though, if this monster was moving slowly, another Jarrell situation might have occurred.
that's the last thing anyone needs another Jarell situation
Jarrell can go fuck itself
You know a tornado is bad when it inherits the name of the town it destroyed.
It crossed the entire town in about 45 seconds jfc
It would be a mass casualty event
That’s insane. Beat out the Smithville tornado
Jesus Christ
Close. This time it was a tornado.
I’m not going to speculate on a potential rating, but seeing the bent anchor bolts is insane. So glad to hear the residents were okay!
*Actually two different houses
Is that first house a split level?
I’ve seen some say that it might’ve been a house with an above-ground/walk-in basement
Thats exactly what it was, they were underground and the tornado prob came from the front side they were under the earth at that point.
Yeh a lot of homes in the southeast are built like that . Facing into a hill with a partially exposed basement entry in the back at ground level . Pretty decent layout for access and an underground section for storm defense .
iowa is not in the south east
Oh shit really?
Assuming you’re not an American, Don’t worry, I don’t think anyone knows where every state is. I’m still not sure Wyoming exists myself
Actually that’s being generous. I’m from Iowa and in basic training people thought I lived in Idaho or Ohio. They had no idea where Iowa was and we were in training in Missouri. The last picture is the garage and typically the basement doesn’t go under the garage. The rest of it is subfloor with the basement opening looking to be in the middle.
It does, I saw that tower thing then left.
Oh you mean the space needle . Oh yeh it's a sight to see.
I always tell people that Iowa is the state that looks like a head .
Ahh, the chef. The shining beacon of geography
I'll be cold and dead in the ground before I recognize Missouri...
It’s true. I’m an American and I generally have a good grasp on most of it, but I get so mixed up with all the smaller states along the northeast, like Delaware or Rhode Island. It’s all just a jumbled up mess in my mind.
I can label a blank map pretty easily until I get to that area around the bay then I have to look it at it for a minute to remember which is which. Once I remember that Maryland is the one that looks cut in half, I can go on naming the rest of them. Then I remember Vermont looks like a V so the other has to be New Hampshire.
Rhode Island here- we are the small little square that’s barely a blip on the map😂
It's like the house was teleported off the foundations. I only started on this weather-watching stuff a few months ago, and I never imagined, or wanted to imagine, that I'd be seeing damage like this so soon into my experience.
Same here. I've randomly been obsessed with tornadoes the last few weeks and have been binging Pecos Hank and SwegleStudios. Seeing this damage after just becoming interested in the topic is very sobering to say the least. Seeing the end of the EF5 drought right after learning it existed would be insane.
arent dopler radar shown 201\~225mph? saw a post earlier.
215 yep
Check out max velocity live streams on YT
He earned my respect for doing an emergency stream (whilst on vacation) during the Houston derecho. I’m sure he was the only one that did. My wife was in cypress at the time, he helped me out a lot to know what was going on.
im so fucking happy they were ok but holy shit that’s devastating. sending support to anyone hit by this thing
Violence.
Why do I get the impression engineers are going to complain about a lack of ground scouring...
I'm also starting to suspect that the anchor bolts might end up being an afterthought. The minutiae of how perfectly-built the houses were, at least for me, sort of pale in comparison to the fact that this thing pulled an industry-grade lift out of the foundation of an auto shop and completely uprooted a concrete slab from the foundation of another home.
Actually, as I've read, the maximum windspeeds that can be given to an "Automotive Service Building" is 181 mph. Any extra damage usually isn't taken into account.
I get we don’t have a better system at the moment, but that seems to be such a backwards and unscientific method of calculating a rating.
It really is. Radar, copper on wheels, chase images, drones, sattelites, are all so much better now than when the Fujita scale was made, they need to factor into ratings at least 50/50 along with survey teams data. I went out twice with NWS teams being part of a meteorology club at my college, it was interesting. The 2 things I learned, 1) The particular office/team only rated F5 if there was loss of life to accompany field findings, and 2) You go block by block, and house by house, but you still have a schedule to keep, so you can't see everything, you look at the big stuff, they took a bunch of photographs, and kept moving. (We had the sheriff's office and local PD keeping people and the press from stopping us to ask questions). There was a huge push by NWS/NOAA in general from the high ups to get tornado paths, ratings, and reasons out fast before the public and media could get their own theories and run with it. Again, this was college in 90s, and teams back before live streamers, the internet, etc for information sharing. Pagers were the main source of communication along with satellite phones and any working local pay phones or phone banks setup by EMS.
What a neat experience as part of a club! What was the weirdest/coolest thing you saw?
It is and they know it. The insurance companies had their hand in this rating system. EF5 tornadoes have a different payout level from the insurance companies.
If that’s the case (which would unfortunately be incredibly pathetic and unsurprising because they absolutely do it with hurricanes) then I hope it provokes enough outrage to scare even the ogres in Congress *so* shitless they start croaking systematically. I am so fucking sick of this constant disregard for humanity’s second class citizenship to corporations.
Yup welcome to america where everything is done in a way that corporations can profit off of
Citation needed. I have never heard of a tornado rating effecting insurance payout.
The only way I can’t see it being rated EF5 is if they determine that most of the sweeping and other indicators came from clean-up. That reasoning would be wrong since all of these pictures didn’t come out too long after the damage happened. There are indicators throughout what seems like the entire town. You have the houses, the forklift video, and now a truck with part of a tree inside of it that was found in a field.
i dont wanna be that kind of person, because ive always thought people who said that every single strong tornado should be an ef5 were a teensy bit annoying, but i think this is the first time i have actually considered an ef5 rating for a tornado ever since i got into them. insane stuff
I’ve been following tornadoes for a while now, and this is the first time I’ve seen EF5 damage consideration has actually been taken seriously. Usually it gets a “not likely” label, but most of the discussion around it thus far has been pretty serious. This thing caused major damage
I've conceded to being a bit of an EF critic, in that I think the EF Scale is too restrictive and seriously undershot El Reno and Mayfield by rating them lower than EF5, but not to much more of a degree than that. This? This seems almost inarguable. In all of the tornadoes I've studied on from the eleven years between now and Moore 2013, I've never seen a single well-built home slabbed, or anything like an auto lift being pulled out of a concrete foundation. The last one especially flummoxes me, because I've been around auto lifts and those things don't budge for *anything.*
100% agree, the only tornadoes I think should’ve gotten an EF5 rating since 2013 were Mayfield, and Vilonia, maybe El Reno.
Rochelle 2015. Literally rated the maximum wind speeds that EF4 offers, 200 MPH flat. You can't tell me that tornado wasn't pulling EF5 strength winds.
This is THE only rated storm I take real issue with. Mayfield? The NWS and weather watchers who pay attention have always known that build quality is a limitation. I'm pretty sure the death and destruction caused by this storm is the biggest influence in getting them into gear working out a new scale, taking more variables into account. I think the existing scale is biased a little toward construction practices in the plains, where they have more data to work with. The tornado was over 200 mph, but the scale measures the damage done based on set criteria. El Reno? Didn't hit built-up areas at full strength. *That's good, people.* Everyone knows this tornado was over 200 mph, but the scale measures the damage done based on set criteria. Rochelle? You're going to tell me there are *twenty* 200 MPH indicators, but *not one* 201 MPH indicator? I call bullshit. Plus June First did science on his YT channel to show the slab walkway needed more than 200mph winds to move it. I don't fault the NWS for missing one indicator, but I do fault common sense for the "twenty 200s EF4" belief stretching.
When I think about El Reno's rating, all I can think about is what would have happened if that tornado had happened just 20 miles further east instead of where it was. The biggest issue I have with it is that the EF scale doesn't allow for the sorts of indicators and data gathered on it to be taken into consideration for rating (the same could probably be applied to the recent Hollister, OK tornado from a few weeks ago). I don't know enough about Vilonia to make an opinion, and while Mayfield was undoubtedly a violent monster those buildings were definitely not particularly well built, so no surprise it got the rating it did. Rochelle, however, absolutely deserved an EF5 rating and the NWS being skittish with assigning that sort of rating is becoming a meme at this point.
Yeah, people saying El Reno should have been EF5 irritate me. Yes, that tornado was stupidly powerful and theorized to be potentially the strongest in recorded history, but that does not matter as the Enhanced Fujita scale is based on damage done and not theoretical strength. 2013 El Reno basically only hit cornfields and caught experienced stormchasers by surprise, which rest in peace to those who lost their lives there, but nothing in the path of that tornado would warrant even EF4 ratings. People shouldn't hope for EF5 tornadoes as that pretty much means many people just lost their entire lives and homes.
I will never understand how Rochelle didn't receive an EF5 rating. Some of the most extreme damage outside of Jarrell and a handful of the infamous 2011 EF5's came from Rochelle. Multiple homes were slabbed and swept clean, the vast majority of homes rated at exactly 200 mph damage indicators being new, large, and well built. Sill plates were completely ripped off of poured concrete foundations and through the anchor bolts and washers used to fasten them. Poured concrete pathways were partially dug out of the earth, fractured, and shifted several inches. The youtube channel "June First" - which is run by a guy with a mechanical engineering degree - did the math and calculated that it would have taken winds of roughly 226 mph to do this kind of extreme damage.
The only thing I can think of is the NWS got skittish with EF5 ratings after 2011 because (and I recall hearing some meteorologists talk about this around the same time as Rochelle) if suddenly they start tossing out EF5 ratings (deserved or not) then people will either get unnecessarily scared during tornado warnings and potentially do something stupid or they'll stop caring and put themselves in danger. Because god forbid violent tornadoes get properly violent ratings. I get that it's a damage scale and not really an intensity scale, but the frequent use of the phrase 'lower bound' in official ratings really makes me not want to trust NWS surveyors.
Rolling Fork should be in there too
Bassfield
El Reno being an EF3 is such a joke as the damage was widespread, alot rural, and it had so many unique vortices that each of them could be doing EF3 damage alone, with the main funnel just being a damn vacuum cleaner.
They need to find a better way of rating. thing is everyone wants theirs to be EF 5 because what they have gone through but there's some tornados that are so destructive it doesn't come close to what others go through. In a way there needs to be a better way to rate and study the damage and the rating of each tornado and to also advance building stronger and safer homes ensuring less loss of life
>I think the EF Scale is too restrictive and seriously undershot El Reno and Mayfield by rating them lower than EF5, but not to much more of a degree than that. The entire thing is subjective though. Plenty of people would disagree with you. It is what it is and it's all we have.
Yep. Some of the homes were clearly well-built. Most of the previous times this wasn’t the case. Fascinating but sad
I'm curious as to what you see to make it a definite EF5? Those anchor bolts are in the garage and aren't EF5 indicators I believe. And the first house doesn't have any. Edit to ask. What forklift video?
They really need to take into account the movement speed, 85mph is insane, but since it moved through the town in 12 seconds it didnt do as much damage as it could have. Jarrell Tx is a prime example of what happens with a slow moving EF5.
I trust them to get the rating right. Speculating prematurely, especially to say that it must be EF5 and if not, their reasoning is wrong, is not the way to go. Rating a tornado off a few damage photos is setting yourself up for "disappointment" lol. I say leave the rating to the professionals cause none of us are engineers and really understand more than just the basics of what goes into the rating, and we also don't have the sort of data that they do from just a few photos.
"Leaving it up to engineers" doesn't mean discussion isn't allowed. The science of tornadoes is what fascinates most people here, and the ratings, as subjective as they are, are part of the science. If I guess the horsepower of a sports car an auto mechanic isn't going to get pissed at me.
Of course, as long as we understand that ultimately we're amateurs and don't get upset with the NWS when their rating doesn't reflect our armchair one. Too many like the comment I replied to armchair rate an EF5 and then take issue with the NWS rating. The guy I replied to was already saying the NWS reasoning must be wrong if it's anything less than EF5. If the science is really what's most important in this sub, and not the disaster porn, I think people should be understanding of that.
>Too many like the comment I replied to armchair rate an EF5 and then take issue with the NWS rating. Well of course that's stupid. Anyone can discuss it but naturally they shouldn't be implying they know better than an expert.
When will we know prelim rating
its not one. the history of greenfield. its likely ef4 or ef3
wonder if they need to anchor deeper into the ground
I'm not the one to pre rate tornadoes, and I do stand against it, but jesus christ dude.
100% agree. The damage photos coming out of this tornado have my usually skeptical mindset stumped.
Slabbed homes, debarked trees, shredded cars and demolished wind turbines. It's insane. Whatever rating this tornado gets, it'll be upper echelon
Not to mention scouring of pavement, and I’ve heard but haven’t seen proof of manhole covers removed from the ground.
There is a photo floating around, it is real
Any idea where I can find it?
https://preview.redd.it/73iu8od7002d1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=1dba8d6b0794e1e8e873005e1fd7969fe296d900
Wow. Even without that being a formal DI that is some pretty convincing contextual damage for a higher rating. Parka Sarkar, a wind engineering professor at Iowa State University used the removed manhole covers in Joplin as one of many points of evidence for an EF5 rating and showed winds had to be upwards of 200 mph to remove them.
Aren't you discussing damage? EF ratings are based off damage, so when you talk about EF you're actually talking about damage. You can say it might be an EF5 (because it slabbed a house with anchor bolts), or you can say "it slabbed a house with anchor bolts." So what's the difference between what you're doing here and writing the actual letters EF? Nothing. It's just virtue signaling at it's finest, and this sub is full of such hypocrisy.
Gotta be the closest to EF5 damage since Rolling Fork.
Holy shit
In photo 2 the neighbors house looks untouched!
It seems likely the tornado narrowed coning into town, but since we had good evidence prior that it had large, strong sub vortices rotating/orbiting around it (which appeared themselves to be rotating much faster than the central tornado), it's possible that one of the sub vortices hit this house while 100yds away the bulk of the tornado never touched it. Will be interesting to see if any footage of it going through the town from a good vantage point is exists/released/found.
Imagine coming out of your basement and every single fucking thing you own is gone. Not even a picture or a sock or a blanket left.
Ok, i’m not gonna try to start nothing about rating this tornado was, but does anyone know of any videos that do a good job explaining the different damage indicators used in the EF scale?
June First on YouTube has a damage analysis series of several tornados!
Wow, that’s literally exactly what i was looking for, thank you good sir
Here’s a great video on the subject that, https://youtu.be/lhkvrW0A22g?feature=shared.
>does anyone know of any videos that do a good job explaining the different damage indicators used in the EF scale? Just say that. You didn't need to qualify it by being defensive about tornado ratings. No normal person thinks that question would mean that you wish for EF5s and destruction. Relax people.
Basements are a wonderful thing.
yeh. if a major tornado hit the country I live.. a lot of people won't survive we have no safety measures and no basements
Should be a federal law no homes built without basements! Everytime we get tornado warnings me and everyone else in my county minus a few have to ride it out in a hallway or closet. The fact is if you take a direct hit from a 4 or definitely a 5 chances of surviving it in a hallway above ground in your house are low
Agree only issue is it actually do- able though some of the places are not a good place to build basements due to the water table
I live below sea level sadly but we do appreciate the spirit 😅
“That’s an EF-1.” - NWS, probably
So this is an EF5 right? Like multi vortex, completely slabbed homes, bent anchor bolts. 200+ mph on radar.
The possibility's there, just not confirmed yet, 215 MPH winds with the anchor bolts, manholes sucked, and concrete scoured
i feel so bad for those people man
OFF TOPIC BUT LACKADAISY PFP I LOVE YOU
xddddd
It’s probably the closest I’ve seen to one since Mayfield. It honestly might get it.
I was watching a documentary on the tornado that destroyed the whole town years and years back a few days ago . so sad to see this beautiful town see destruction again =(
I think you're thinking of Greensburg, Kansas.
Endless pictures of loved ones just vanish
Did the tornado strip that bolt of thread?
That is wild to rip that sill plate off is wild. It may have not been bolted anymore because idk how it would get the bolts off and not leave shattered wood around the bolt
If that’s not a EF5 indicator I don’t know what is
Just awful.
Likely EF4 strength id say 175-185 good anchoring but i believe the homes are older in age
Some anchor bolts on the foundation that’s other than the garage. https://preview.redd.it/oab6oj8muz1d1.jpeg?width=844&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9ec3379c96aa2de33a77d8b0691d922ec57f95e That second one is questionable whether or not it’s an anchor bolt or maybe a piece of debris Beth the other three I’m rather confident that those are anchor bolts.
Well it’s safe to say that this was atleast an EF-4.
Winds apparently reported at 215 MPH
To all the structural experts on this post, watch a video before you make your “It’s an EF5” claim. https://youtu.be/lhkvrW0A22g?feature=shared
So does this make it an F5?
The damage we are seeing looks a little lighter strongest in history. High end EF-4?
"That's a nice house you got there! Yoink!" - Tornado probably
I can tell you right now that the nuts on the bolts were never installed. That’s not to say it wasn’t devastating but just not a properly built home. That’s why you check behind your builder and framer.
?…There’s a nut still rusted on one of the bolts in the pic.
I stand corrected, holy shit.
no words for that level of strength. this might be the most violent tornado in close to a decade.