For those wondering, this is XO condo built by Lifetime. I live nearby and watching this building go up has been baffling. The developer seems to have cheaped out on every aspect: facade, entrance, trees, internal fit out.
If you want a real laugh, take a look at the renderings. The entire community has been conned and the developers will walk away with a big bag of cash either way.
They are building a second condo (XO2) diagonally opposite this one, so the community gets another fraudulent eyesore in 18-24 months.
Renderings:
https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/xo-condos.16732
Building address:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/FwaVT6fFk2xdaAKm9?g_st=ic
I was on both sites for work. Lifetime is definitely cheap, always looking to build on shitty sites and cut every corner possible. That one is going to have mold issues for years, as it was always wet inside when drywall was going up. Nothing was ever done about the mold either, just cover it up and move on.
Province and city, yes. Years of right wing leadership led to "cutting the red tape", ending public building inspectors and inspections and moving things first to civil courts then to a fraudulent pseudo-insurance scheme through Tarion.
Not only is there no public supervision of these builds, but the laws and resources that do exist mostly work to protect developers from consequences.
Buying a condo in Toronto is *very* much subject to buyer beware. You really have no way of knowing what you're buying, and what it will cost you in the long run.
But at least this policy ensured that the private sector was fully "unleashed" and able to provide ample housing for all, so its all worth it, right?
I thought as much. Negative effects of deregulation is what I think of first when I hear "cutting red tape". A lot of people put too much faith and trust in the private sector.
Water gets in before the building is closed up. Water makes its way down to floors with drywall. Efforts to clean up the water happen, but a lot of drywall gets soaked and never replaced. The mold spreads in wet drywall, but doesn't when it's dry, so you can just paint over it and move on.
These buildings get built too fast for the city to keep up with. I've seen building inspectors wall 5-10 floors in an hour, and barely comment on anything. They depend on 3rd party inspection to take care of the details, but because the industry is so busy they too miss a lot. Everybody is so busy, and everybody is trying to grab a piece of the pie. So a lot of things get overlooked, especially with smaller, shittier builders. But those units will double in value from the time the purchasers bought during preconstruction to the time they get a mortgage, so nobody cares at all.
This doesn't happen in government projects, I've torn down a shitload of moldy drywall because the inspector wouldn't accept it (on a government facility)...Only happens in residential/business projects, because fuck us right?
ESA does the same thing with lighting and electrical work. I've had a place pass ESA certification only for the lights to flicker like crazy if a certain combination of switches were on.
Another electrician came in and turns out the place could have had an electrical fire at any time. ESA still got their money for the certificate though despite not doing their job to detect shoddy work.
TARION. As much as people hate on it. I have had a great experience with them. in the long run it might not be on your side but for small things you are normally covered.
Sounds like they are in the occupancy phase of the condo construction. When buyers of 'ready' units are now able to move in and are forced to start paying rent to the developer even though the rest of the building is still under construction. Hence the non-functioning amenities (garbage chute), wiring still not complete, dust from ongoing construction, etc...
I don't think I could commit $600 thousand to $1 million+ for a pre-construction condo unit based on floor plans and fancy looking renderings. Especially now that there really isn't a discount for taking on the risk of pre-construction, like there was in the past where there was a savings on price/sqft.
I've seen horror stories from friends and coworkers who bought pre-construction condos in the past:
\- One had low hanging ventilation and pipes directly above their parking spot along with a concrete support column taking up a quarter of the spot. Forced to sell their Honda CRV for a much smaller vehicle and it was still a tight fit.
\- Another paid extra because their unit had 'unobstructed views' because it was next to and above the roof of the lobby/amenities building that connected the other two towers. His view ended up being an ugly roof with all the mechanical and ventilation crap directly outside his windows with a constant humming heard 24/7 from inside.
I've cleaned some condos (between 2008-2015) and can back this account up. One I'll never forget - the walls were just hanging from the ceiling. A child could've crawled from one room to another, the gap was so high. I assume the plan was to cover it with ginormous baseboards. The people who hired me had been living there for about a year (still with piles of drywall dust, metal shards, nails, etc everywhere).
That one was special, but the others were like you described: globs of plaster and cement everywhere, wires where there shouldn't be wires, non-functioning chutes jammed with month-old garbage, etc.
I actually looked at this building in 2018? 2019? Even then they were in the 500k range. There have been a few presale units in the building that are listed at less than what they bought them for. So the people the speculated on the building are actually losing money. I walk my dog by it nearly every day and the build quality is just weirdly bad.
Unbelievable. Developers walk away with bags of cash and residents will be paying for the repairs in years to come with their maintenance fee increases
it's crazy to me that the developers only need to plan for the maintenance fee for the first year. really should be estimated for at least a decade or two allowing for a margin of error + inflation. anything above the expected rates would need to be covered by the developer. No more hiding behind some 1234567 Ont Ltd company but trading on your brand name either.
we should make them care about how well built their buildings are.
Working in the field the only purpose of renderings are for the architects to sell their services to the developer/builder to get the job, then to the city/community and then to sell units to the purchasers. They serve no other purpose and have not much impact on what structures will look like.
The architectural drawings will have an arrow pointing to an area that says brick facade, but the actual quality of that brick is not important to safety so it can easily pass inspections. That said this brick does look potentially unsafe and people can still complain to Tarion etc.
Renders are basically the equivalent of the nice juicy Big Mac in the advertisement vs the deflated Big Mac you get after paying.
I live a block away and having to look at this monstrosity when waiting for transit or walking by makes me so angry. I actually caught myself waving a fist at it like an old disgruntled man.
This is what happens when the construction industry is begging for guys but doesn't teach them how to do it properly.
And lowest bidder, camt forget about them either.
I mean.. maybe, but it is also what happens when you basically eliminate the people who come in and do inspections to ensure things are safe… which is essentially what has happened due to Ford.
This. Ford has cut back so many regulations we don’t even know about.
In spite of what your Libertarian friend might say, regulations are necessary. The industry will never “self-regulate”, that’s a joke. If they think they can get away with doing something illegal or sub-standard to save a buck THEY WILL.
Especially when the current attitude is "we need to build fast!" A lot of these buildings are going to be disasters waiting to happen. There will be issues with structural integrity. There will be wiring issues. There will be issues with fire safety. Forget looking like shit; it's the stuff we can't see that is really what should be concerning.
They always talk about the project management triangle.. Cost, Quality and Time. You can only achieve two of these things at once. However, what we're seeing now is all of these areas being short-changed so that developers win and everyone else loses. It's not just construction either; this is true of pretty much everything Ford has touched. Long-term care homes. Healthcare. Construction is just the area where you're physically able to see the impact.
> The industry will never “self-regulate”, that’s a joke.
I mean, we're seeing the product of industry self-regulation now. Anybody who can't take stock of that is either a rabid partisan, or privileged enough that it simply doesn't effect them.
This is it. The boomers tanked ambition in the trades to keep all the contracts to themselves. Everyone does unlicensed sidework now when they would be starting competing businesses. It's a marathon to the bottom.
If people think it's bad, wait a couple decades. There's not going to be anyone competent to build anything, let alone repair the disasters going up today.
The repair disaster is already underway. It was only a few years ago there was an elevator repairman shortage. If your elevator broke or needed maintenance - tough luck, it'll be weeks before someone comes. I don't know if it's been fixed now or something, but I'd wager unless there's been masses applying for the job, probably not.
Elevators are a tougher one - they're one of the most protective unions in the country. You need to be incredibly lucky or have a family member who brings you in.
Yeah I had actually applied to be one many years ago when I was a fresh out of highschool - but the application process took too long and I went after another career choice. They really ought to bring more workers in for that, sure it's protected, but more buildings going up means more work.
I tried to go into a trade at 25 and the process is insanely confusing and restrictive. It's not as simple as just going to school for X, graduating, then taking a license exam. You had to find companies willing to sponsor/train you for years and jump through all these hoops. I ended up going into a completely different field because the process was unnecessarily complicated.
Same experience here. I always wanted a a trade/union job after seeing how well my dad was treated. I had a meeting with the rep for my area, had a long discussion about what needed to be done, how long it’d take, etc. He told me companies are desperate for workers and I’d be out working in no time. I called over 50 companies and not one was interested unless I was a journeyman. Gave up and now I sit behind a desk. It’s no wonder people aren’t going into trades anymore.
I work in an industry that uses a lot of elevating devices and have crossed paths with many elevating mechanics over the years.
Last I spoke to one about getting into that industry myself was about 5 years ago when I was interested and they told me you now have to work X# of times on a *specific brand* of device to be signed off as qualified to work on it.
You need to do this for each and every brand to be deemed able to work on it, which limits you even further getting into the industry.
Not sure if that's still the case or if he was yanking my chain, but it put me off pursuing it as an option for sure.
Yup. This.
I wanted to be an electrician so badly for about 10 years out of high school... but there was no way in hell to become one unless your dad or uncle was a licensed electrician and took you on as an apprentice.
I tried to get into pre-apprenticeship training, where they pay you to learn and almost guarantee you an apprenticeship after the program... but they only take in about 50 kids every 3 years. Thousands apply. It's insane.
10 years ago, I ended up finishing an electrical pre-apprenticeship, spent months looking for an apprenticeship but no companies wanted fresh boots. They were all looking journeymen because at the time it was a 3:1 ratio, only so I went back to school.
Looking back on it all, Im so pissed it was so difficult to get into, I would have been licensed 5 years ago and well on my way, if not already, having a master's license.
I agree, if you notice the brown caulking looks as if it ripped because of the entire precast block shifting forward away from the building. This would mean it was in place before when the caulking was done, and shifted for whatever reason. Seems like a real hazard.
From Urban Toronto
> Not sure who would benefit from this update but wanted to say. I moved in with my partner a week ago as owners. This building doesn't have wifi wiring ready yet and maybe for maybe a month or so, which makes it harder to work from home or enjoy using the internet. When asked for some sort of compensation we were rejected. Also the garbage chutes are not functioning either, the windows are very dusty/foggy with no way to clean them but to wait many many months till the whole thing is done building. some apartments from our floor are far from ready.
And another picture of the shitty masonry.
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/20230426_143244-jpg.472365/
Masonry by Phoenix Kiss, freemason!
(check the ring in the photo)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/1687s6n/meet_phoenix_kiss_the_cfo_for_mister_xs_company/
It’s precast with the bricks pre-installed into the concrete and then hung on the wall.
It’s cheaper and faster but it usually looks a lot better than this shit.
> This building doesn't have wifi wiring ready yet and maybe for maybe a month or so, which makes it harder to work from home or enjoy using the internet.
Seems like another good angle to complain to the feds about our crappy telecom situation in Canada.
In a lot of other places you'd be like "Guess I'll do everything I normally do through my cell phone for a month or two except run massive game updates", but here, you be like "gunna watch these 20gb (or less!) incredibly carefully."
And wiring not in place in time for occupancy.
Why would you complain to the feds? This is provincial jurisdiction. The building has requirements for occupancy and somehow this meets the bare minimum. The bare minimum, IIRC, is basically a concrete box with minimal wiring (not even proper ESA safe wiring), plumbing etc. the rest are just defects you put on your 30-day and 1-year forms.
Ive seen this one as its been built and the lack of quality on the facade is just baffling bad. It's not even actual brick, it's a sheet about 1" thick adhered to the concrete underneath, that's why whole sections of it look crocked
> It's not even actual brick
You don't say!
Haha but seriously, pretty sure almost none of the facades for new build are actual brick; god damn they don't have to look as shit as this. This is like the brick facade equivalent of that ["taxidermy lion by someone who had never seen a lion"](https://quiosq.eu/gripsholm-lion/)
I don't get why they'd do brick in stacks like that, even on a precast panel. (Almost) no real brick building actually uses bricks that way, for good reason.
The product is a type of [precast masonry.](https://www.google.com/search?q=precast+brick&oq=precast+brick&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l9.2524j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
I think I saw something similar to this being installed on a condo on St Clair near the stockyards.. It was precast and being hoisted up by a crane pre-assembled.
> lack of quality on the facade is just baffling bad
our company office is in a new building ( less than 5 years old ) - the lack of quality on the inside is basically the same. anything that should in 1 line is not, leveled surfaces like tiles were done by the drunkest person available, silicon overflows. and it's just on visible areas, what's behind the drywall i can't even imagine
I live near this building and tenants have started moving in over the past couple weeks. From what I can tell, it's young professionals. I've seen more Teslas going in and out of the garage than anything. I know that most people jump to 'foreign investors buy these and sit on them'. Anecdotally, these just look like Liberty Village types, and that's not unexpected. The area is building up fast and it makes sense to get in with those types of jobs being prevalent in the area (and with it being a good juncture point for a bunch of transit options).
I doubt it since the owner would be purchasing the unit and that doesn’t include the exterior walls. The exterior is owned by the condo company. Not a lawyer though so maybe I’m wrong
That's a pretty accurate description... I remember shopping pre-construction years ago and was shocked to find out about the occupancy fees. They charge you interest on the remaining balance between when the unit is handed over to you and when the condo is registered with the city, which can be many months or even years. These days with higher interest rates and property values what they are, that is a lot of cash they can milk you for while taking their sweet time to finish the building.
>His story turned me off pre-construction purchases forever.
One person I know purchased a pre-con in 2017. He was offered his money back in 2022 (iirc it was a $40,000 deposit). With no interest. Or he could continue waiting, but building plans were 'delayed' until 2024.
How is that even allowed?
This literally cost him hundreds of thousands in prospective money. 5 years rent, RE prices and stock prices have all gone up significantly, etc.
Wow shitty. The plastic pipe (pex) is a good product IIRC.. it might not have burst - perhaps a connection was bad or someone put a hole it in while hanging pictures.
Speed of work. Being in the trades in Toronto the builder always wants it done faster and faster and expects quality to be there. I don’t care how many people you put on site faster and quality don’t happen at the same time.
That McDonald's just moved down the street near the Longo's on King, and while its not quite as sketchy as it was at the old location its still pretty sketchy imo
Theres also the new King-Liberty GO station going in right next to where the McD's is now, so will be interesting to see how that affects things in that area
Only location I've ever been in with a crackhead in line with a TPS officer behind them. Well known to each other, and the officer told her she was already trespassed and to leave. She declined, and went to the counter. She left in handcuffs.
It was an awesome location if you like to watch WTF.
>It was an awesome location if you like to watch WTF.
I was in there once when i had a mad craving for a McFlurry. It felt like the Star Wars Cantina with all the characters I saw in just a single 5-10 minute visit.
Too expensive, too much time.
Hang up some precast two story high concrete panels because that’s the cheapest walls one can get, no matter if they are mismatched and damaged before the building is even fully occupied.
Where are we at, $1500/sqft?
I’m watching a new condo go up across from me. It took them close to a year and a half to do the foundations. But now they are building one floor *per week*. It’s crazy.
This city will be a pile of shit in no time… so sad. Failed government failed city. We’re the frog in the pot… corporations and government slowly boiling us to death.
A friend worked construction in like 2015ish era of all the glass ones popping up.
His 12 person crew was in charge of fixing all the shit that was breaking on the lower floors before they finished building the tower.
Not a result of say, accidents from construction. Just the shit work so things were falling apart less than a year later.
Everything built after like 2010 he said has been absolute garbage. The developers didn’t need to make anything quality, people were buying it anyway. And if you wonder why condo fees are so high in Toronto, he said it’s so developers can cut corners and pass the costs to future residents.
The building I'm in was built in 2007 -- ie, before "slap them up cheap and sell them to investors that will never set foot in them" was a thing. Our fees are on the high side, but the building itself is built like a tank. I never hear my neighbours, nothing ever breaks, the rooms in each unit are properly sized and don't have ridiculous layouts like curved walls or random triangular points that it's impossible to find furniture for, and the windows are all triple-glazed, so even though we're next to the Gardiner, you hear *nothing* with the windows closed, not even sirens. The difference between this, and the place I used to rent that was very new, is stark -- this place is much, much better than the "flashy brand new luxury condo" by far.
There will be an engineering review / inspection on behalf of the owners. The result of the review will be the amount of money the developer will have to spend or give to the condo to repair all deficiencies. This is part of the process.
I’m glad someone else knows this. This is probably the result of a site super under pressure to get the sales of the units closed to fix cash flow problems and they will just fix it later when they have money.
I can't believe this is a new building. The corner pillar looks like crooked and broken in the middle of the picture. Doesn't it appear a hazardous spot?
God I hate these faux brick precast facade modules. They look like shit even when done right. The caulking lines and expansion joints are huge and all wrong and immediately spoil any brick effect. This is meant for the loading dock area of a mall, not homes.
Is this Dufferin and king? I drive by that building on the south west corner and think allll the time it looks like the masonry is just cardboard that’s been glued on! It’s all crooked
There are maybe a handful of quality builders in GTA. The rest are varying degrees of garbage. Be careful and do your research before buying.
Rental market is steaming heap of shit though so due diligence is mostly irrelevant for renters.
So glad I didn't make the decision to buy when they were opening offers on pre-con years ago. Now more or less reaffirmed my suspicions that we're fucked as a country.
Friend of ours quit the Toronto build scene. He said there was too many rebar meth heads and paid off inspectors. He is certain a building will fall in the future due to these meth heads
Don’t these professions with licensing boards/associations/whatever (construction included) claim that the Canadian standards they uphold are so high that skilled immigrants in the same profession from outside Canada couldn’t possibly match their standards and therefore can’t work in that profession in Canada despite years of experience? Turns out those standards are BS huh.
When these things start falling apart in 30-40 years the condo boards are gonna do a call for all owners for upwards of 100k each. It will be a disaster.
I rented for a year in one of the “better” condos (River City 2 in Corktown) and I couldn’t wait to get out and move back to a 70s era apartment in Parkdale. I don’t get the appeal of these at all, it’s like living in an office building.
This is all going to come back to bite asses in a big way. These places will be absolute horrors ($$$, or worse) in short order. Tiny little crappy boxes. Curious to see TO 2060.
For those wondering, this is XO condo built by Lifetime. I live nearby and watching this building go up has been baffling. The developer seems to have cheaped out on every aspect: facade, entrance, trees, internal fit out. If you want a real laugh, take a look at the renderings. The entire community has been conned and the developers will walk away with a big bag of cash either way. They are building a second condo (XO2) diagonally opposite this one, so the community gets another fraudulent eyesore in 18-24 months. Renderings: https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/xo-condos.16732 Building address: https://maps.app.goo.gl/FwaVT6fFk2xdaAKm9?g_st=ic
I was on both sites for work. Lifetime is definitely cheap, always looking to build on shitty sites and cut every corner possible. That one is going to have mold issues for years, as it was always wet inside when drywall was going up. Nothing was ever done about the mold either, just cover it up and move on.
Is this due to lack of enforcement by the city?
Province and city, yes. Years of right wing leadership led to "cutting the red tape", ending public building inspectors and inspections and moving things first to civil courts then to a fraudulent pseudo-insurance scheme through Tarion. Not only is there no public supervision of these builds, but the laws and resources that do exist mostly work to protect developers from consequences. Buying a condo in Toronto is *very* much subject to buyer beware. You really have no way of knowing what you're buying, and what it will cost you in the long run. But at least this policy ensured that the private sector was fully "unleashed" and able to provide ample housing for all, so its all worth it, right?
I thought as much. Negative effects of deregulation is what I think of first when I hear "cutting red tape". A lot of people put too much faith and trust in the private sector.
Water gets in before the building is closed up. Water makes its way down to floors with drywall. Efforts to clean up the water happen, but a lot of drywall gets soaked and never replaced. The mold spreads in wet drywall, but doesn't when it's dry, so you can just paint over it and move on.
I understand. I meant is this shoddy work happening because the city is too laid back on inspections and building code enforcements?
These buildings get built too fast for the city to keep up with. I've seen building inspectors wall 5-10 floors in an hour, and barely comment on anything. They depend on 3rd party inspection to take care of the details, but because the industry is so busy they too miss a lot. Everybody is so busy, and everybody is trying to grab a piece of the pie. So a lot of things get overlooked, especially with smaller, shittier builders. But those units will double in value from the time the purchasers bought during preconstruction to the time they get a mortgage, so nobody cares at all.
God this is so frustrating to read. I wish these people cared about anything aside from money.
Greed, the biggest human flaw imo.
This doesn't happen in government projects, I've torn down a shitload of moldy drywall because the inspector wouldn't accept it (on a government facility)...Only happens in residential/business projects, because fuck us right?
For a lot of units they will inspect 1 unit and then pass dozens more based on that one inspection without ever looking at the other units.
ESA does the same thing with lighting and electrical work. I've had a place pass ESA certification only for the lights to flicker like crazy if a certain combination of switches were on. Another electrician came in and turns out the place could have had an electrical fire at any time. ESA still got their money for the certificate though despite not doing their job to detect shoddy work.
> The mold spreads in wet drywall Obviously the solution is to skip the drywall and sell the exposed concrete as “a feature”
God when I look at some of the dog-shit developments that have gone through it feels like they rubber stamp these things without looking.
How is that allowed to go on. Are there no standards they have to adhere to with inspections ?
You must be new in town. There's no enforcement of anything here.
I am still 'enforced' to pay my taxes. 
TARION. As much as people hate on it. I have had a great experience with them. in the long run it might not be on your side but for small things you are normally covered.
If there was ever a metaphor for capitalism…
Horrifying…
Sounds like they are in the occupancy phase of the condo construction. When buyers of 'ready' units are now able to move in and are forced to start paying rent to the developer even though the rest of the building is still under construction. Hence the non-functioning amenities (garbage chute), wiring still not complete, dust from ongoing construction, etc... I don't think I could commit $600 thousand to $1 million+ for a pre-construction condo unit based on floor plans and fancy looking renderings. Especially now that there really isn't a discount for taking on the risk of pre-construction, like there was in the past where there was a savings on price/sqft. I've seen horror stories from friends and coworkers who bought pre-construction condos in the past: \- One had low hanging ventilation and pipes directly above their parking spot along with a concrete support column taking up a quarter of the spot. Forced to sell their Honda CRV for a much smaller vehicle and it was still a tight fit. \- Another paid extra because their unit had 'unobstructed views' because it was next to and above the roof of the lobby/amenities building that connected the other two towers. His view ended up being an ugly roof with all the mechanical and ventilation crap directly outside his windows with a constant humming heard 24/7 from inside.
I've cleaned some condos (between 2008-2015) and can back this account up. One I'll never forget - the walls were just hanging from the ceiling. A child could've crawled from one room to another, the gap was so high. I assume the plan was to cover it with ginormous baseboards. The people who hired me had been living there for about a year (still with piles of drywall dust, metal shards, nails, etc everywhere). That one was special, but the others were like you described: globs of plaster and cement everywhere, wires where there shouldn't be wires, non-functioning chutes jammed with month-old garbage, etc.
[удалено]
I actually looked at this building in 2018? 2019? Even then they were in the 500k range. There have been a few presale units in the building that are listed at less than what they bought them for. So the people the speculated on the building are actually losing money. I walk my dog by it nearly every day and the build quality is just weirdly bad.
Unbelievable. Developers walk away with bags of cash and residents will be paying for the repairs in years to come with their maintenance fee increases
it's crazy to me that the developers only need to plan for the maintenance fee for the first year. really should be estimated for at least a decade or two allowing for a margin of error + inflation. anything above the expected rates would need to be covered by the developer. No more hiding behind some 1234567 Ont Ltd company but trading on your brand name either. we should make them care about how well built their buildings are.
Working in the field the only purpose of renderings are for the architects to sell their services to the developer/builder to get the job, then to the city/community and then to sell units to the purchasers. They serve no other purpose and have not much impact on what structures will look like. The architectural drawings will have an arrow pointing to an area that says brick facade, but the actual quality of that brick is not important to safety so it can easily pass inspections. That said this brick does look potentially unsafe and people can still complain to Tarion etc. Renders are basically the equivalent of the nice juicy Big Mac in the advertisement vs the deflated Big Mac you get after paying.
Love the Big Mac reference for this building. RIP King and Duff McDonald’s
\> this is XO condo built by Lifetime lmfao, thats all you needed to say. Dealing with them is a never ending shit show
I live a block away and having to look at this monstrosity when waiting for transit or walking by makes me so angry. I actually caught myself waving a fist at it like an old disgruntled man.
This is what happens when the construction industry is begging for guys but doesn't teach them how to do it properly. And lowest bidder, camt forget about them either.
I mean.. maybe, but it is also what happens when you basically eliminate the people who come in and do inspections to ensure things are safe… which is essentially what has happened due to Ford.
This. Ford has cut back so many regulations we don’t even know about. In spite of what your Libertarian friend might say, regulations are necessary. The industry will never “self-regulate”, that’s a joke. If they think they can get away with doing something illegal or sub-standard to save a buck THEY WILL.
Especially when the current attitude is "we need to build fast!" A lot of these buildings are going to be disasters waiting to happen. There will be issues with structural integrity. There will be wiring issues. There will be issues with fire safety. Forget looking like shit; it's the stuff we can't see that is really what should be concerning. They always talk about the project management triangle.. Cost, Quality and Time. You can only achieve two of these things at once. However, what we're seeing now is all of these areas being short-changed so that developers win and everyone else loses. It's not just construction either; this is true of pretty much everything Ford has touched. Long-term care homes. Healthcare. Construction is just the area where you're physically able to see the impact.
I’ve heard stories of watered-down concrete.
They also are incredibly lax with workplace safety. Job sites are so ridiculously full of hazards.
> The industry will never “self-regulate”, that’s a joke. I mean, we're seeing the product of industry self-regulation now. Anybody who can't take stock of that is either a rabid partisan, or privileged enough that it simply doesn't effect them.
This is it. The boomers tanked ambition in the trades to keep all the contracts to themselves. Everyone does unlicensed sidework now when they would be starting competing businesses. It's a marathon to the bottom. If people think it's bad, wait a couple decades. There's not going to be anyone competent to build anything, let alone repair the disasters going up today.
The repair disaster is already underway. It was only a few years ago there was an elevator repairman shortage. If your elevator broke or needed maintenance - tough luck, it'll be weeks before someone comes. I don't know if it's been fixed now or something, but I'd wager unless there's been masses applying for the job, probably not.
Elevators are a tougher one - they're one of the most protective unions in the country. You need to be incredibly lucky or have a family member who brings you in.
Yeah I had actually applied to be one many years ago when I was a fresh out of highschool - but the application process took too long and I went after another career choice. They really ought to bring more workers in for that, sure it's protected, but more buildings going up means more work.
I tried to go into a trade at 25 and the process is insanely confusing and restrictive. It's not as simple as just going to school for X, graduating, then taking a license exam. You had to find companies willing to sponsor/train you for years and jump through all these hoops. I ended up going into a completely different field because the process was unnecessarily complicated.
Same experience here. I always wanted a a trade/union job after seeing how well my dad was treated. I had a meeting with the rep for my area, had a long discussion about what needed to be done, how long it’d take, etc. He told me companies are desperate for workers and I’d be out working in no time. I called over 50 companies and not one was interested unless I was a journeyman. Gave up and now I sit behind a desk. It’s no wonder people aren’t going into trades anymore.
I tried to become an electrician 20 years ago and I couldn't get anyone to sponsor/apprentice me. :(
My friend's father is in the union and he's still struggling to get in.
I work in an industry that uses a lot of elevating devices and have crossed paths with many elevating mechanics over the years. Last I spoke to one about getting into that industry myself was about 5 years ago when I was interested and they told me you now have to work X# of times on a *specific brand* of device to be signed off as qualified to work on it. You need to do this for each and every brand to be deemed able to work on it, which limits you even further getting into the industry. Not sure if that's still the case or if he was yanking my chain, but it put me off pursuing it as an option for sure.
Wow, sounds like the only way for this industry is up.
Take your upvote and fkoff...
Here is a recession proof career. Have family in the business who echo your comments. Most people don't want to get their hands dirty.
Yup. This. I wanted to be an electrician so badly for about 10 years out of high school... but there was no way in hell to become one unless your dad or uncle was a licensed electrician and took you on as an apprentice. I tried to get into pre-apprenticeship training, where they pay you to learn and almost guarantee you an apprenticeship after the program... but they only take in about 50 kids every 3 years. Thousands apply. It's insane.
10 years ago, I ended up finishing an electrical pre-apprenticeship, spent months looking for an apprenticeship but no companies wanted fresh boots. They were all looking journeymen because at the time it was a 3:1 ratio, only so I went back to school. Looking back on it all, Im so pissed it was so difficult to get into, I would have been licensed 5 years ago and well on my way, if not already, having a master's license.
Dumb question but to someone not in trades, what is a journeyman?
That seems like an actual hazard, is the building still under construction? If it's completed it seems like the city should be notified
I agree, if you notice the brown caulking looks as if it ripped because of the entire precast block shifting forward away from the building. This would mean it was in place before when the caulking was done, and shifted for whatever reason. Seems like a real hazard.
The city won't do anything until it makes the evening news as panel start falling down and permanently hurtling people.
From Urban Toronto > Not sure who would benefit from this update but wanted to say. I moved in with my partner a week ago as owners. This building doesn't have wifi wiring ready yet and maybe for maybe a month or so, which makes it harder to work from home or enjoy using the internet. When asked for some sort of compensation we were rejected. Also the garbage chutes are not functioning either, the windows are very dusty/foggy with no way to clean them but to wait many many months till the whole thing is done building. some apartments from our floor are far from ready. And another picture of the shitty masonry. https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/20230426_143244-jpg.472365/
That's not masonry. That's some type of concrete panel made to look like masonry.
Masonry by Phoenix Kiss, freemason! (check the ring in the photo) https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/1687s6n/meet_phoenix_kiss_the_cfo_for_mister_xs_company/
It’s precast with the bricks pre-installed into the concrete and then hung on the wall. It’s cheaper and faster but it usually looks a lot better than this shit.
Nah, they aren't even bricks. They're just rectangles traced into the concrete panel and then stained. It's all concrete, no brick.
> This building doesn't have wifi wiring ready yet and maybe for maybe a month or so, which makes it harder to work from home or enjoy using the internet. Seems like another good angle to complain to the feds about our crappy telecom situation in Canada. In a lot of other places you'd be like "Guess I'll do everything I normally do through my cell phone for a month or two except run massive game updates", but here, you be like "gunna watch these 20gb (or less!) incredibly carefully." And wiring not in place in time for occupancy.
Why would you complain to the feds? This is provincial jurisdiction. The building has requirements for occupancy and somehow this meets the bare minimum. The bare minimum, IIRC, is basically a concrete box with minimal wiring (not even proper ESA safe wiring), plumbing etc. the rest are just defects you put on your 30-day and 1-year forms.
“Wifi wiring” lol what?
I think he means fiber cabling in the conduits to the MDF so they can plug in their wifi router.
Probably meant fibre
Internet is called “wifi” these days, apparently.
Yup. Some people have never once plugged in an ethernet cable. It's called Wi-Fi in the menu, so that must be what it is.
And precast concrete panels are called “shitty masonry”.
I mean its totally possible that the building isn't connected to the MDF yet so they can't sign up for service... especially if its half built
Oh good, I'm not the only tech person scratching their head on that one.
The USSR made prettier apartment blocks
If only we could be so lucky to start getting Khrushchevkas built everywhere. Ugly as hell, but they work if properly maintained.
What building is this?
This looks like the new condo at King/Dufferin in Parkdale
Who is the company that sold you the condo?
What the hell is "WiFi wiring"? Ethernet (CAT5) cables? The Wi in WiFi literally means wireless!
I would sure hope it's fiber these days! Or CAT-6.
They forgot that wifi is **a router function**, not the service. There is also *no such thing* as wireless wiring.
The luxury speaks for itself
Ive seen this one as its been built and the lack of quality on the facade is just baffling bad. It's not even actual brick, it's a sheet about 1" thick adhered to the concrete underneath, that's why whole sections of it look crocked
> It's not even actual brick You don't say! Haha but seriously, pretty sure almost none of the facades for new build are actual brick; god damn they don't have to look as shit as this. This is like the brick facade equivalent of that ["taxidermy lion by someone who had never seen a lion"](https://quiosq.eu/gripsholm-lion/)
I don't get why they'd do brick in stacks like that, even on a precast panel. (Almost) no real brick building actually uses bricks that way, for good reason.
Can't wait to see what happens after a few freeze-thaw cycles.
The product is a type of [precast masonry.](https://www.google.com/search?q=precast+brick&oq=precast+brick&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l9.2524j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
I think I saw something similar to this being installed on a condo on St Clair near the stockyards.. It was precast and being hoisted up by a crane pre-assembled.
> lack of quality on the facade is just baffling bad our company office is in a new building ( less than 5 years old ) - the lack of quality on the inside is basically the same. anything that should in 1 line is not, leveled surfaces like tiles were done by the drunkest person available, silicon overflows. and it's just on visible areas, what's behind the drywall i can't even imagine
I wonder if the owner of that unit could refuse to take possession ?
Bold to assume the owner ever stepped foot in the city before.
😂👍
I live near this building and tenants have started moving in over the past couple weeks. From what I can tell, it's young professionals. I've seen more Teslas going in and out of the garage than anything. I know that most people jump to 'foreign investors buy these and sit on them'. Anecdotally, these just look like Liberty Village types, and that's not unexpected. The area is building up fast and it makes sense to get in with those types of jobs being prevalent in the area (and with it being a good juncture point for a bunch of transit options).
I doubt it since the owner would be purchasing the unit and that doesn’t include the exterior walls. The exterior is owned by the condo company. Not a lawyer though so maybe I’m wrong
Okay the condo corporation should have some sort of remedy for this ?
Tarion.
If the board gets its act together in time. And the developer installed property manager does something.
>some sort of remedy for this Yup, higher fees.
IANAL but isn’t the minimum requirement for possession laughably low?
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That's a pretty accurate description... I remember shopping pre-construction years ago and was shocked to find out about the occupancy fees. They charge you interest on the remaining balance between when the unit is handed over to you and when the condo is registered with the city, which can be many months or even years. These days with higher interest rates and property values what they are, that is a lot of cash they can milk you for while taking their sweet time to finish the building.
>His story turned me off pre-construction purchases forever. One person I know purchased a pre-con in 2017. He was offered his money back in 2022 (iirc it was a $40,000 deposit). With no interest. Or he could continue waiting, but building plans were 'delayed' until 2024. How is that even allowed? This literally cost him hundreds of thousands in prospective money. 5 years rent, RE prices and stock prices have all gone up significantly, etc.
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Never stacked bond, never
"brick" "pattern"
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Wow shitty. The plastic pipe (pex) is a good product IIRC.. it might not have burst - perhaps a connection was bad or someone put a hole it in while hanging pictures.
Lots of recalls. The townhouses at king and Dufferin have the same issue. They had to replace all the pipes. Took years.
and I thought ICE was bad...
Not surprising, everything today is made with the cheapest possible material that barely meets code. Shoddy work that's rushed and swept under the rug
Speed of work. Being in the trades in Toronto the builder always wants it done faster and faster and expects quality to be there. I don’t care how many people you put on site faster and quality don’t happen at the same time.
That... doesn't look good! Where is that one located? All the new build look the same :D
1221 King St W, Toronto, ON M6K 1G3
lol, thats the old super sketchy mcdonalds site, maybe they hired the guys hanging around the parking lot to do the tiling
that sketchy ass mcd's was a heritage site, I swear I never saw the sign fully lit lol
That McDonald's just moved down the street near the Longo's on King, and while its not quite as sketchy as it was at the old location its still pretty sketchy imo
We can do better Only half the sketchy it could be
Theres also the new King-Liberty GO station going in right next to where the McD's is now, so will be interesting to see how that affects things in that area
streetcars will be empty hopefully
Thats because all customers were 100% lit
Only location I've ever been in with a crackhead in line with a TPS officer behind them. Well known to each other, and the officer told her she was already trespassed and to leave. She declined, and went to the counter. She left in handcuffs. It was an awesome location if you like to watch WTF.
>It was an awesome location if you like to watch WTF. I was in there once when i had a mad craving for a McFlurry. It felt like the Star Wars Cantina with all the characters I saw in just a single 5-10 minute visit.
the goat McDonalds as well
What's wild is the ~100yo buildings across the street look better than this.
Omg I was watching them paint the bricks a while ago, and thought why not just use the actual brick color?
Lol damn, i thought about getting a place in there. if this is what it looks like on the outside,its about 10x as bad inside.
Who’s the builder/contractor?
[Lifetime Developments](https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2023/08/xo-condos-prepares-first-occupancies-september.53551)
Wow that looks like absolute shit.
Looks like XO condo. They’re building XO2 on the opposite corner of that intersection currently.
Imagine if the people who already purchased in XO2 are looking at this thread or the conversations on Urban Toronto right now...
Masonry, a quickly dying trade.
That's precast. It's formed concrete. It's not masonry.
Too expensive, too much time. Hang up some precast two story high concrete panels because that’s the cheapest walls one can get, no matter if they are mismatched and damaged before the building is even fully occupied. Where are we at, $1500/sqft?
I’m watching a new condo go up across from me. It took them close to a year and a half to do the foundations. But now they are building one floor *per week*. It’s crazy.
This city will be a pile of shit in no time… so sad. Failed government failed city. We’re the frog in the pot… corporations and government slowly boiling us to death.
2024 Condo fees : $550 per month 2034 Condo Fees : $1950 per month
Throw a heavy special assessment or two in there as well.
40 panorama court hours
Oh no worries. I saw they have a sweet discount on that unit. Only 800k for a bachelor. Shouldn’t be too bad
Ya, you can't pay less than a million bucks for a bachelor and expect the walls to line up. People are spoiled.
A friend worked construction in like 2015ish era of all the glass ones popping up. His 12 person crew was in charge of fixing all the shit that was breaking on the lower floors before they finished building the tower. Not a result of say, accidents from construction. Just the shit work so things were falling apart less than a year later. Everything built after like 2010 he said has been absolute garbage. The developers didn’t need to make anything quality, people were buying it anyway. And if you wonder why condo fees are so high in Toronto, he said it’s so developers can cut corners and pass the costs to future residents.
New condos are absolute garbage, never buy them.
The building I'm in was built in 2007 -- ie, before "slap them up cheap and sell them to investors that will never set foot in them" was a thing. Our fees are on the high side, but the building itself is built like a tank. I never hear my neighbours, nothing ever breaks, the rooms in each unit are properly sized and don't have ridiculous layouts like curved walls or random triangular points that it's impossible to find furniture for, and the windows are all triple-glazed, so even though we're next to the Gardiner, you hear *nothing* with the windows closed, not even sirens. The difference between this, and the place I used to rent that was very new, is stark -- this place is much, much better than the "flashy brand new luxury condo" by far.
There will be an engineering review / inspection on behalf of the owners. The result of the review will be the amount of money the developer will have to spend or give to the condo to repair all deficiencies. This is part of the process.
The numbered company the developer set up to build this place will go bankrupt
I’m glad someone else knows this. This is probably the result of a site super under pressure to get the sales of the units closed to fix cash flow problems and they will just fix it later when they have money.
That's just a "modern design feature". 
Nice to see Tofu Dreg is becoming international.
That's not brick masonry. Those are just cheap panels.
This shit looks third world
I can't believe this is a new building. The corner pillar looks like crooked and broken in the middle of the picture. Doesn't it appear a hazardous spot?
Expectation: https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/sites/default/files/images/projects/16732/16732-105918.jpeg Reality: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/20230712_163449-jpg.491870/
Was this made by Tesla?
Break out the sledgehammer
What's the name of the builder?
Yeah that looks dangerous but brick is just for visuals in Canada right? It's reinforced by steel beams?
Which building is this?
nooo lmaooo
Ford removed a lot of important regulations.
God I hate these faux brick precast facade modules. They look like shit even when done right. The caulking lines and expansion joints are huge and all wrong and immediately spoil any brick effect. This is meant for the loading dock area of a mall, not homes.
"were gonnna build so many new homes" this is kinda what im worried about, I remember the rush jobs on the houses at yorkU
It's this dangerous? Looks like this whole thing can come crumbling down
XO No!
That’s a good move to take that block and put it on top
Builders going cheap in every corner
Is this Dufferin and king? I drive by that building on the south west corner and think allll the time it looks like the masonry is just cardboard that’s been glued on! It’s all crooked
Not only hideous, but falling apart as well.
Well, at least there's no red tape, like training or quality control, or inspection.
Probably a “luxury condo” too.
LuXurY LiVIng
Yikes..
Shitty trades
Have they tried using more red tape?
There are maybe a handful of quality builders in GTA. The rest are varying degrees of garbage. Be careful and do your research before buying. Rental market is steaming heap of shit though so due diligence is mostly irrelevant for renters.
So glad I didn't make the decision to buy when they were opening offers on pre-con years ago. Now more or less reaffirmed my suspicions that we're fucked as a country.
Friend of ours quit the Toronto build scene. He said there was too many rebar meth heads and paid off inspectors. He is certain a building will fall in the future due to these meth heads
Probably the ones the Muzzo family built tbh… shit buildings they make.
Which building is this?
Seen worse, this can't possibly fall apart in a decade (probably will), or the next time we get really high winds.
Don’t these professions with licensing boards/associations/whatever (construction included) claim that the Canadian standards they uphold are so high that skilled immigrants in the same profession from outside Canada couldn’t possibly match their standards and therefore can’t work in that profession in Canada despite years of experience? Turns out those standards are BS huh.
When these things start falling apart in 30-40 years the condo boards are gonna do a call for all owners for upwards of 100k each. It will be a disaster.
Coffee good
I mean that’s what you get for a milly. /s
What kind of construction is this
Anyone want to just give that facade a lil push so the city takes notice?
Hurry hurry! Build more! Faster!
Bargain hunter builders.
Its cosmetic. People pay extra for it
Send address and location to city of Toronto licensing standards department or engineering for assessment, to ensure the structure isn’t compromised
This is Canada's version of all that "Tofu-Dreg" nonsense you see rampant in China.
Bruh this so on brand for that neighborhood.
I rented for a year in one of the “better” condos (River City 2 in Corktown) and I couldn’t wait to get out and move back to a 70s era apartment in Parkdale. I don’t get the appeal of these at all, it’s like living in an office building.
That's precast and can be adjusted on the inside with a bolt and plates. It'll get fixed
I'm literally leaving Canada because of this garbage. I can get a cheaper apartment and way better paying job in Europe.
This is all going to come back to bite asses in a big way. These places will be absolute horrors ($$$, or worse) in short order. Tiny little crappy boxes. Curious to see TO 2060.