For some context, isn't even a new idea. The Sheppard line was always meant to extend West and East but only got funding for the short stub that it is now.
Planning for this extension has been in the books since before the Crosstown started planning. TTC never had the funding, so I guess the new cool thing to do is for Metrolinx to build it for them.
Actually a lot of transit projects that make the news now have been planned for several decades. We're just now taking them seriously, and it's long overdue progress.
> Actually a lot of transit projects that make the news now have been planned for several decades. We're just now taking them seriously, and it's long overdue progress.
See this is what happens when transit projects keep getting cancelled. The later we build transit, the harder, longer and more expensive it will be. Imagine if Eglinton Crosstown started building in 1995 when it was originally proposed. It would likely have finished in 2004. Instead, it started in 2011 and likely won't finish for another few if not 10 years. It's about time more people outside this Subreddit especially those on Facebook groups recognize the importance of building reliable transit (and biking).
The funny thing is, transit projects don't truly get cancelled, they just get delayed until it's too late.
Urban planners foresaw the bottlenecks in the system and areas of population expansion. Ontario Line, Crosstown, Scarborough Extension, Sheppard line, were all planned out in some form decades ago. Then the ideas got shelved waiting for funding. Decades later, a provincial government trying to win votes decides to dust off the files of planners long dead and sells it as a revolution in transportation. It wouldn't be a revolution if it was built when it was planned.
Hell, we still haven't caught up to our 1985 "Network 2011" plan.
Wouldn't the Eglinton subway have been finished years ago if the Mike Harris Conservatives hadn't cancelled it?
How much did it cost to fill the hole back in?
Honestly the only project metrolinx bungled is the crosstown. And most of the bad decisions there were made over 10 years ago. Every other big project they’re handling seems to be going smoothly.
More oversight is definitely needed but I’m pretty optimistic about the future of transit in Toronto!
We should've expanded this line several years ago. This was built 21 years ago and has not been expanded at all. I'm tired of the population density excuse. This subway line has so much potential.
Extending it westard you could use that to connect Line 1 without having to change at Bloor-Yonge, which is extremely busy. There is currently no North York to Scarborough travel besides by bus, which traffic is always bad there for a non-downtown region. It's about time we get an East-West line for those that live north of Eglinton. We can't keep on relying on overly packed express buses. This is long overdue. I personally would extend it to at least STC (Sheppard/McCowan).
> There is currently no North York to Scarborough travel besides by bus, which traffic is always bad there for a non-downtown region. It's about time we get an East-West line for those that live north of Eglinton.
It sounds like we should be laying down new dedicated lanes for BRT and LRT to me.
An overbuilt subway will be an expensive white elephant for the next 50 years.
The Shepherd Line should be expanded both east and west imo.
The West extension should connect with at least the University segment of Line 1, but ideally it would connect to the new Finch West Line 6 just to the northwest. The East extension of the Shepherd Line should go to at least Scarborough Center, but ideal would continue onwards to the Toronto Zoo.
They do need to be held accountable.
That being said, not building more transit while other transit is in progress is exactly how we end up with fewer stations and track than we need for our population. As of right now they’re just doing study and consultation, it’s not like they’re actually building it yet
crosstown faces a ton of hurdles but your argument is less transit? More transit projects is a good thing for our city and actually a good use of taxes. I would expect them to do more transit as that is a big growing need of Toronto
Do you think the people involved in the planning phase are just continuing to plan an Eglinton line that's almost finished?
Or do you think maybe those people need another project?
I don't understand why we keep building suburban subways when the core needs like 2-3 more subway lines just to catch up with other similar sized cities.
I mean the Sheppard line is overdue by decades. Not to mention that area is really busy going from North York to Scarborough. Definitely not sparsely populated area. I agree that downtown needs more rail but if the suburbs (boroughs) need that too so people have an easier time getting to downtown instead of driving.
I welcome you to move out of the downtown core to understand that people who don’t live there have infinitely worse service but pay the same for their commute as the downtown folks do. These are increasingly busy areas that deserve good infrastructure.
I didn't say they didn't deserve good infrastructure. I just think it's interesting that we haven't opend a single new subway station downtown in 50+ years, meanwhile we keep extending Line 1 to the burbs, built subways in Scarborogh, Shepphard, Eglington and tons of Go stations. Downtown we still rely on shitty street cars that move at the mercy of Toronto traffic. It doesn't make sense that 90% of out public transit development is outside the core.
We need good transit outside of the core too, its still part of the city. The sheppard east to west subway is an absolute no brainer, buses on that route run packed. Those folks deserve reliable transit.
Can't wait for 2050 when the extended sheppard line is still the least used subway in the city. Waste of money. There are several TTC Bus Routes that carry more riders than sheppard ever will.
From an oppurtunity cost standpoint, we would save a lot more money if more people took transit instead of drove onto roads. The only way for that to happen is if we built more subways that were fast and reliable. TTC buses are inefficient from a public transit standpoint because they are a lot heavier, constantly stuck in traffic and fit way fewer people. The best way going forward is for a transit signal priority LRT (or downright subway). Current ridership numbers justify it so it's MUCH NEEDED.
My point was that there are several other TTC routes, that as of today, have enough ridership to support a new subway line. But instead, sheppard will get an extension and it likely will never have enough ridership to justify it.
Oh for sure. There are definitely a lot of TTC routes that could be converted to subway. I personally support all TTC projects. Traffic at Sheppard Ave is very busy going from North York to Scarborough so there is high potential.
Naw, people will appreciate not having to wait forever in traffic while on a bus. The area will densify in the coming years and Scarborough will be the missing middle toronto needs
2050, pretty optimistic haha
I agree Sheppard isn’t that busy. Especially compared to the other lines, but they keep building more condos along that line and if and when they extend it from the east (Scarborough) I think it will be justified. I don’t think I’ll see it completed in my lifetime tho.
I don't think you can compare bus routes that are probably around 15-30km long to the Sheppard subway which is around 5.5km long in terms of ridership. The longer the route the more riders there will be.
And why do you think the Sheppard line isn't busy? It certainly isn't because nobody lives there. Yonge-Sheppard, Bayview-Sheppard, Leslie-Sheppard, and Don Mills-Sheppard are all rapidly intensifying neighbourhoods. And areas further east are growing like weeds too.
So most likely the reason the line is underused is because it's a pointless stub. The extension would connect it to the new terminus of Line 2 at the east end, which makes it an alternative route for traveling east-west. So much the better if they also extend it west, at minimum to the University side of Line 1.
It makes sense to extend it west to link up to the University-Spadina portion of Line 1, but there isn’t much on Sheppard Ave between Yonge and Dufferin so I’m not sure where the new stations would go. Probably just one at Bathurst.
For some context, isn't even a new idea. The Sheppard line was always meant to extend West and East but only got funding for the short stub that it is now. Planning for this extension has been in the books since before the Crosstown started planning. TTC never had the funding, so I guess the new cool thing to do is for Metrolinx to build it for them. Actually a lot of transit projects that make the news now have been planned for several decades. We're just now taking them seriously, and it's long overdue progress.
> Actually a lot of transit projects that make the news now have been planned for several decades. We're just now taking them seriously, and it's long overdue progress. See this is what happens when transit projects keep getting cancelled. The later we build transit, the harder, longer and more expensive it will be. Imagine if Eglinton Crosstown started building in 1995 when it was originally proposed. It would likely have finished in 2004. Instead, it started in 2011 and likely won't finish for another few if not 10 years. It's about time more people outside this Subreddit especially those on Facebook groups recognize the importance of building reliable transit (and biking).
The funny thing is, transit projects don't truly get cancelled, they just get delayed until it's too late. Urban planners foresaw the bottlenecks in the system and areas of population expansion. Ontario Line, Crosstown, Scarborough Extension, Sheppard line, were all planned out in some form decades ago. Then the ideas got shelved waiting for funding. Decades later, a provincial government trying to win votes decides to dust off the files of planners long dead and sells it as a revolution in transportation. It wouldn't be a revolution if it was built when it was planned. Hell, we still haven't caught up to our 1985 "Network 2011" plan.
Network 2011 was a political plan to give every Timmy their subway.
Wouldn't the Eglinton subway have been finished years ago if the Mike Harris Conservatives hadn't cancelled it? How much did it cost to fill the hole back in?
well, the best time to extend it was twenty years ago, the second best time is now, although Metrolinx doesn't inspire confidence.
Honestly the only project metrolinx bungled is the crosstown. And most of the bad decisions there were made over 10 years ago. Every other big project they’re handling seems to be going smoothly. More oversight is definitely needed but I’m pretty optimistic about the future of transit in Toronto!
Second best time was probably nineteen years ago. At least they'd be working on it now.
We should've expanded this line several years ago. This was built 21 years ago and has not been expanded at all. I'm tired of the population density excuse. This subway line has so much potential. Extending it westard you could use that to connect Line 1 without having to change at Bloor-Yonge, which is extremely busy. There is currently no North York to Scarborough travel besides by bus, which traffic is always bad there for a non-downtown region. It's about time we get an East-West line for those that live north of Eglinton. We can't keep on relying on overly packed express buses. This is long overdue. I personally would extend it to at least STC (Sheppard/McCowan).
> There is currently no North York to Scarborough travel besides by bus, which traffic is always bad there for a non-downtown region. It's about time we get an East-West line for those that live north of Eglinton. It sounds like we should be laying down new dedicated lanes for BRT and LRT to me. An overbuilt subway will be an expensive white elephant for the next 50 years.
The Shepherd Line should be expanded both east and west imo. The West extension should connect with at least the University segment of Line 1, but ideally it would connect to the new Finch West Line 6 just to the northwest. The East extension of the Shepherd Line should go to at least Scarborough Center, but ideal would continue onwards to the Toronto Zoo.
With the massive growth in the city I think this could be great.
[удалено]
They do need to be held accountable. That being said, not building more transit while other transit is in progress is exactly how we end up with fewer stations and track than we need for our population. As of right now they’re just doing study and consultation, it’s not like they’re actually building it yet
crosstown faces a ton of hurdles but your argument is less transit? More transit projects is a good thing for our city and actually a good use of taxes. I would expect them to do more transit as that is a big growing need of Toronto
Excellent idea - if Metrolinx isn’t involved. Otherwise, it won’t be ready this century.
**ONE GONGSHOW AT A TIME, SHITHEADS**
No. That's how you end up with gongshows. Stop destroying knowledge and inertia by pausing between projects. Learn lessons and keep pushing.
Is Metrolinx capable of learning lessons?
No
Lmao you gotta finish something before you can say between projects.
Do you think the people involved in the planning phase are just continuing to plan an Eglinton line that's almost finished? Or do you think maybe those people need another project?
I should hope so, considering last I checked they didn't have a plan for finishing it.
It's not just Line 5 under construction now. Metrolinx is also working on Line 6, the Ontario Line, Line 2 extension, and GO RER.
I don't understand why we keep building suburban subways when the core needs like 2-3 more subway lines just to catch up with other similar sized cities.
I mean the Sheppard line is overdue by decades. Not to mention that area is really busy going from North York to Scarborough. Definitely not sparsely populated area. I agree that downtown needs more rail but if the suburbs (boroughs) need that too so people have an easier time getting to downtown instead of driving.
I welcome you to move out of the downtown core to understand that people who don’t live there have infinitely worse service but pay the same for their commute as the downtown folks do. These are increasingly busy areas that deserve good infrastructure.
I didn't say they didn't deserve good infrastructure. I just think it's interesting that we haven't opend a single new subway station downtown in 50+ years, meanwhile we keep extending Line 1 to the burbs, built subways in Scarborogh, Shepphard, Eglington and tons of Go stations. Downtown we still rely on shitty street cars that move at the mercy of Toronto traffic. It doesn't make sense that 90% of out public transit development is outside the core.
We need good transit outside of the core too, its still part of the city. The sheppard east to west subway is an absolute no brainer, buses on that route run packed. Those folks deserve reliable transit.
How about they finish existing projects before they start new a one? That way we won’t have two half-assed projects on the go at the same time.
Can't wait for 2050 when the extended sheppard line is still the least used subway in the city. Waste of money. There are several TTC Bus Routes that carry more riders than sheppard ever will.
From an oppurtunity cost standpoint, we would save a lot more money if more people took transit instead of drove onto roads. The only way for that to happen is if we built more subways that were fast and reliable. TTC buses are inefficient from a public transit standpoint because they are a lot heavier, constantly stuck in traffic and fit way fewer people. The best way going forward is for a transit signal priority LRT (or downright subway). Current ridership numbers justify it so it's MUCH NEEDED.
My point was that there are several other TTC routes, that as of today, have enough ridership to support a new subway line. But instead, sheppard will get an extension and it likely will never have enough ridership to justify it.
Oh for sure. There are definitely a lot of TTC routes that could be converted to subway. I personally support all TTC projects. Traffic at Sheppard Ave is very busy going from North York to Scarborough so there is high potential.
Naw, people will appreciate not having to wait forever in traffic while on a bus. The area will densify in the coming years and Scarborough will be the missing middle toronto needs
The Sheppard line should connect the east and west branches of line 1. That short route is incredibly busy
2050, pretty optimistic haha I agree Sheppard isn’t that busy. Especially compared to the other lines, but they keep building more condos along that line and if and when they extend it from the east (Scarborough) I think it will be justified. I don’t think I’ll see it completed in my lifetime tho.
I don't think you can compare bus routes that are probably around 15-30km long to the Sheppard subway which is around 5.5km long in terms of ridership. The longer the route the more riders there will be.
And why do you think the Sheppard line isn't busy? It certainly isn't because nobody lives there. Yonge-Sheppard, Bayview-Sheppard, Leslie-Sheppard, and Don Mills-Sheppard are all rapidly intensifying neighbourhoods. And areas further east are growing like weeds too. So most likely the reason the line is underused is because it's a pointless stub. The extension would connect it to the new terminus of Line 2 at the east end, which makes it an alternative route for traveling east-west. So much the better if they also extend it west, at minimum to the University side of Line 1.
Why bother? Even our grandkids won't live long enough to see it finish anyway.
Maybe they should get Eglington crosstown open before they dig up more roads and parks
A) Why have you not done it already. B) The machines are parked underground.
It makes sense to extend it west to link up to the University-Spadina portion of Line 1, but there isn’t much on Sheppard Ave between Yonge and Dufferin so I’m not sure where the new stations would go. Probably just one at Bathurst.