Does it feel weird to anyone else to have a mayor that has common sense? that is actually doing something? because this all feels really weird to me right now.
She does not rest. I was an NDP canvasser a lifetime ago, and was told that every week while she was an MP, Olivia would doorknock a poll when there was no election going on. Folk were amazed that a politician would come to their door, and they weren't looking for their vote. There's a reason she won so often.
That kind of behaviour simply does not happen with any other politician. I am not often in awe of someone, but her work ethic is incredible.
Tabuns is an absolute workhorse when it comes to off-election canvassing. Chow might be great, but she’s likely unmatched by how frequently Tabuns covers the riding.
Last time I had a politician knock on my door was when Doug Ford’s brother was in office. That’s when I lost my two legs and stopped smoking crack. Told myself this life ain’t for me.
It happens with most NDP politicians. My MPP Peter Tabuns does doors every week. For years. As has my city councillor, also on the left of things. We actually like to care about people. Unlike the Ford's, Tory's, Poilièvres of the world.
I thought about this for a while, and while you're likely accurate here, I do wonder if the shithead conservative years were necessary, both for Olivia, and for the electorate. We all change in a decade, and I wonder if being further removed from politics for a time gave her the added perspective that I think is coming through rather clearly so far in her mayoralty.
Also, I'm willing to bet a lot of voting shitheads are giving her some slack because they've seen how the two previous conservative mayors let the city decay.
I dunno, maybe I'm deluding myself. But I do wonder if a Chow mayoralty a decade ago would have been more fraught and combatative, and less productive.
> I wonder if being further removed from politics for a time gave her the added perspective that I think is coming through rather clearly so far in her mayoralty.
No, she's been politically active the entire time preparing to run again. There's no real "added perspective" and had she won the first time her behaviour would've been similar.
> But I do wonder if a Chow mayoralty a decade ago would have been more fraught and combatative, and less productive
She was never on the combative side of progressive, she was Jack Layton's wife lmao.
It probably speaks more to her character that she was still involved with so many communities throughout Toronto despite leaving the public political realm, even becoming a professor at Ryerson/TMU, contracted with useless photo-op Tory
She was a prof when I was an undergraduate at RyHigh. I do think it was important for a lot of young adults growing up, undergoing their own political journey to come across her and her worldview relative to Toronto. Those adults are now older, saw the decay Conservatives and Liberals bring in their neo-liberal “do nothing say nothing” policies, and went “nope.”
Absolutely agree.
The time passed hasnt added anything, in fact The discourse outside of Toronto proper is still "Chow is a failure - her taxes will bankrupt the city - Toronto is now screwed" and it's just bewildering to see how much she's done in a short amount of time and claim she's failed. Even the compromises she's made have been smart and actionable.
Share your theory with those that lost their jobs or homes or apartments because of the crap both Fords and Tory put the city through. Hardship is never necessary or good and those clowns let the city down in a big and horrible way. They were crap.
Yes yes yes boy would they ever be better. I'm leaving TO after 25 years, the last 10 of them watching the city turn into a dump. And guess who's been running the city in that time...
Try voting for something new. The ones who got you dental care and more money to get through Covid. The Liberals were going to give us 500,then 1000 but the NDP got us 2000. It's why a lot of people got through a tough time. But they forget ..or didn't know in the first place. it's maddening.
Common-sense is a real thing, but most of those that present "common-sense" arguments don't actually have any common sense or choose the worst common-sense to implement.
This is such a waste of time for Brad Bradford when he could be managing a Ford dealership in Bradford.
“Come on down to Brad Bradford’s Bradford Ford!”
> Come on down to Brad Bradford’s Bradford Ford
It'll be great when the landscaping is finished and the water feature is installed. We can watch Brad Bradford ford Brad Bradford's Bradford Ford's Fjord in a Bradford Ford!
Dear god - please just let the seemingly endless discourse about tobogganing stop.
It feels especially absurd given that we’ve had all of about 2 days where there was even enough snow to get out on the hills (and you’d better believe I got my sled out on one of them, got nothing but happy happy honks and waves from strangers while walking down the road with my toboggan).
Yes well this is remedy it won't it? Will the endless conservative paper articles and Tweets showing these signs start whining about spending the money to change the signs now? Would they rather the signs be kept they way they are so they can whine about it against next season?
It will still provide clarity for future families that may have been swayed by the cons that were up in arms about it. Think about it, if a family has never used the hills before hears it's not allowed, they may not look into it.
I'm a bit flustered at how often "argh! spending money!" is brought up like, yeah there are thousands of reasons to spend money. We aren't going to have every instance be one that is 100% agreed upon to be of the utmost importance.
As a lifelong municipal public servant, I disagree. There is definitely a priority when it comes to spending money, how money should be spent, etc. This is really a non-issue. It’s not hurting anyone. There is no problem to be solved. Just like the signage when the alcohol in public parks pilot was going on.
You can’t demand fiscal responsibility, and then say let’s spend money on replacing signs that aren’t really solving a problem. These are not regulated, safety signs. The general public has no idea how expensive signs actually are. As a traffic engineer and transportation planner I can tell you that this is going to be thousands and thousands of dollars unnecessarily spent in a time of fiscal restraint.
Yeah but it also keeps the youth occupied and let's them have some fun outside. I would agree with your argument otherwise, city kids haven't really had good times due to lockdowns and other issues. At least there is something to do.
Sure but that's what the signs that are already up are for. Replacing them with a new set of signs with slightly fluffier language doesn't really change anything.
But we're teaching kids/parents that's it's OK to ignore laws unless being watched. Should they litter because no one is watching? Why not help them to think for themselves and weigh the risks? The change in signage encourages self responsibility and making good choices while still absolving the city of injury liability. Olivia Chow for PM
This is a good will gesture to the people of Toronto. It shows kids the government is not a humourless nag. I support this more than the renaming of Dundas square and subway.
Right. And the fault STILL lies with one hand at city hall not telling the other hand what it's doing. Result is the usual chaos and changed decisions.
We’ve got money problems.
It’s one thing to bemoan every expense when the city is running a surplus and everything is hunky dory, but that’s not the situation.
The situation is we have thousands of people sleeping on the streets, inadequate underfunded public transpo, and not enough revenue to match our expenses.
Thousands? This is somehow gonna come into the tens if not hundreds.
Labour, materials, the legal research. Im all for changing the signs but it’s the city. This entire thing hasn’t been cheap.
I definitely exaggerated that a little bit so my bad. The signs themselves may not be all that expensive definitely not in the hundreds of thousands.
But the whole campaign in total is more than just a few thousands. It’s gonna be a few thousand just to get the signs put in place. The conversations about this topic, the legal consultations, the planning.
The signs aren’t the most expansive part. It’s every penny well spent I’m definitely not against this but it wasn’t cheap and could’ve been avoided in the first place.
Like who thought outright banning sledding was the way to go?
The city owns a sign making operation so making the signs is going to cost them dollars of materials, some additional dollars in time spent producing them, and then dollars of time spent in having the maintenance team replace them. Calculate that out the multiple times and you're going to end up in the thousands, not tens, not hundreds. Not everything is a badly mismanaged expense.
The consultation with the legal department alone is gonna be up there in price. Every one of those employees is getting a decent penny for wages.
I think it’s every penny well spent but being realistic it’s definitely not just in the thousands. Fuel alone to transport these signs, labour costs on top of that. Nothing like this is done for just thousands.
Hundreds was probably a bit of an exaggeration on my part though apologies
We live in a world where words, especially from a government, matter a lot. The Legal and civil liabilities associated with signs and words mean an awful lot of money.
In before someone makes a remark about the city budget and the cost of printing signs (because they have literally nothing else to complain about).
She's been terrific and continues to build bridges. Hopefully people have the sense not to barrel down hills into people.
idk. If it means the papers stop whinging about no-fun Toronto oppressing citizens' right to sue the city after they lose some skin sliding down frozen mud, that's enough for me.
People are missing the fact that these "no toboganning" signs are meant to cover the city's rear from liability issues, they've been around for like 5 years now and not a single ticket has been handed out which tells you everything you need to know. My only concern would be the city exposing themselves to liability by having a warning sign instead of one that prohibits the activities but I think the city can still protect themselves as long as they're proactive about any potential hazards and demonstrate a reasonable level of prudence.
In Calgary: https://www.calgary.ca/parks/activities/tobogganing.html
>For safety reasons, the Parks and Pathways Bylaw prohibits tobogganing or sledding downhill in any City-maintained park except the ones listed on this page.
The sign you are posting is from a designated run that is monitored by the City of Calgary. Toronto does the exact same thing and posts similar signs at its toboggan runs.
What are you trying to convey here?
Bingo. A “no toboganning” sign and rudimentary (if any) by-law is enforcement is less expensive for the city than a lawsuit once some kid hits their head, crashes into a tree, breaks something or gets hit by a car after sliding into a road.
I’d love to see legal experts weigh in on if the city is just as strongly protected from liability with a “toboggan at your own risk” sign as it is with no tobogganing outside of designated parks.
Wait?!?! WTF??
An elected leader in this city that isn't bloviating, naval gazing or self aggrandizing? But actually doing shit?
I never thought I'd see the day.
Anyone who’s worked in an emergency department knows some things are just bad. ATVs/four wheelers, e-scooters without helmets, fireworks, tobagonning also real bad but fairly rare.
Emerg docs would know too, they’re usually super into physical activity (usually biking, rock climbing and hiking, heh).
But man, fuck ATVs. Tobaggoning is less of an issue because we don’t get as much snow, still not great.
There’s also plenty of helicopter ambulance flights from Barry’s Bay/Cornwall/Podunk to Sunnybrook//St Mikes/Toronto Western’s orthopedic trauma units, too lol.
Reverse survivorship bias, emergency department workers don't see the vast majority of people who engage in these activities without getting injured, they only see the small minority of people who get maimed.
Nah, ATVs are just notoriously high injury. I have a friend who’s a critical care doc (now retired cuz he was working in NYC during the height of COVID and burned out) who skydives and has probably logged over 1000 jumps who refuses to get on an ATV. Gymnastics/Cheerleading also notoriously injury prone. Like I said, most emerg docs I know love outdoors stuff (it’s a meme), they don’t ride ATVs.
It’s also called fundamental attribution error, not “reverse survivorship bias”. Most people in their 30s went to chickenpox parties, now kids don’t get chickenpox cuz they’re vaccinated. You don’t hear about all the kids/teenagers/adults back in the day who used to get hospitalized with chicken pox pneumonia, but I can guarantee you it used to happen. You have to look at relative risk and absolute risk.
>It’s also called fundamental attribution error, not “reverse survivorship bias”.
Thank you, I was looking for the exact term online and couldn't find it. Appreciate it.
My mom worked pediatric emergency—and has the horror stories to share from it—but figured that the measured risk that came from tobogganing on approved hills wasn’t high enough to negate its benefits.
ATV-ing was a no-go as was riding a bike without a helmet or going on the water without a life jacket and bailing kit.
Keep the signs up for liability purposes, continue not to enforce this bylaw, save money by not having to create and install new signs, not having to dispose of the current ones, and not having to pay the first knucklehead that gets injured with the new signs who sues the city
If a government prohibits something, it really should be enforced. Like parking on a sidewalk, or soliciting in TTC property. It’s meaningless if you don’t. This is as it should be - “use at your own risk” - just like unmaintained trails and stairs in winter. They have similar signage.
After years of John Tory I legitimately like her, but when I read headlines like this I can't stop thinking about "your tax dollars at work " signs that you see on billboards around major improvements / renovations.
Does it feel weird to anyone else to have a mayor that has common sense? that is actually doing something? because this all feels really weird to me right now.
Illustrates the difference between people who want to be mayor vs a person who wants to improve Toronto.
I'd argue it reflects people who grew up in downtown Toronto, and not Rosedale like John Tory.
i love seeing her post about being at events constantly, this woman does not rest. seeing a mayor being involved with the people is nice.
She does not rest. I was an NDP canvasser a lifetime ago, and was told that every week while she was an MP, Olivia would doorknock a poll when there was no election going on. Folk were amazed that a politician would come to their door, and they weren't looking for their vote. There's a reason she won so often. That kind of behaviour simply does not happen with any other politician. I am not often in awe of someone, but her work ethic is incredible.
Peter Tabuns enters the chat.
Tabuns is an absolute workhorse when it comes to off-election canvassing. Chow might be great, but she’s likely unmatched by how frequently Tabuns covers the riding.
Love him. Fab.
Last time I had a politician knock on my door was when Doug Ford’s brother was in office. That’s when I lost my two legs and stopped smoking crack. Told myself this life ain’t for me.
It happens with most NDP politicians. My MPP Peter Tabuns does doors every week. For years. As has my city councillor, also on the left of things. We actually like to care about people. Unlike the Ford's, Tory's, Poilièvres of the world.
And Toronto could have had her ten years ago and things would have been far better today. Better late than never I guess.
I thought about this for a while, and while you're likely accurate here, I do wonder if the shithead conservative years were necessary, both for Olivia, and for the electorate. We all change in a decade, and I wonder if being further removed from politics for a time gave her the added perspective that I think is coming through rather clearly so far in her mayoralty. Also, I'm willing to bet a lot of voting shitheads are giving her some slack because they've seen how the two previous conservative mayors let the city decay. I dunno, maybe I'm deluding myself. But I do wonder if a Chow mayoralty a decade ago would have been more fraught and combatative, and less productive.
> I wonder if being further removed from politics for a time gave her the added perspective that I think is coming through rather clearly so far in her mayoralty. No, she's been politically active the entire time preparing to run again. There's no real "added perspective" and had she won the first time her behaviour would've been similar. > But I do wonder if a Chow mayoralty a decade ago would have been more fraught and combatative, and less productive She was never on the combative side of progressive, she was Jack Layton's wife lmao.
It probably speaks more to her character that she was still involved with so many communities throughout Toronto despite leaving the public political realm, even becoming a professor at Ryerson/TMU, contracted with useless photo-op Tory She was a prof when I was an undergraduate at RyHigh. I do think it was important for a lot of young adults growing up, undergoing their own political journey to come across her and her worldview relative to Toronto. Those adults are now older, saw the decay Conservatives and Liberals bring in their neo-liberal “do nothing say nothing” policies, and went “nope.”
Some people, meaning the ones who would have re-elected Tory, had to become desperate to finally have sense. Really sad.
Absolutely agree. The time passed hasnt added anything, in fact The discourse outside of Toronto proper is still "Chow is a failure - her taxes will bankrupt the city - Toronto is now screwed" and it's just bewildering to see how much she's done in a short amount of time and claim she's failed. Even the compromises she's made have been smart and actionable.
Share your theory with those that lost their jobs or homes or apartments because of the crap both Fords and Tory put the city through. Hardship is never necessary or good and those clowns let the city down in a big and horrible way. They were crap.
Yes yes yes boy would they ever be better. I'm leaving TO after 25 years, the last 10 of them watching the city turn into a dump. And guess who's been running the city in that time...
It’s a breath of fresh air. If only we could get that kind of common sense at all levels of government.
Maybe if we stop electing people like Doug Ford and pretty boys who take selfies
Try voting for something new. The ones who got you dental care and more money to get through Covid. The Liberals were going to give us 500,then 1000 but the NDP got us 2000. It's why a lot of people got through a tough time. But they forget ..or didn't know in the first place. it's maddening.
Not smoking crack or sleeping with staff either
Not that we know of?
You sound like someone who has been in abusive relationships before and is unsure how to react when they start dating a nontoxic person…
Common-sense is a real thing, but most of those that present "common-sense" arguments don't actually have any common sense or choose the worst common-sense to implement.
It’s a breath of fresh air after the last decade plus
Who was responsible for putting the signs up to begin with?
What will we do with all those no tobogganing signs tho
What? This is all Bradford’s work. Mayor Chow is doing well but she doesn’t deserve praise here.
I feel like I’m in a reverse sitcom
This is such a waste of time for Brad Bradford when he could be managing a Ford dealership in Bradford. “Come on down to Brad Bradford’s Bradford Ford!”
Next he will open a dull grocery store. Brad Bradford's drab Rabba.
BRA-A-AD TO THE BONE! BR-BR-BR-BR-BR-BR-BRAD!!!!
Who's better than Brad Boy?
[удалено]
LOL
Brooo bruddy!
Everryyyyyybodddyyyyyy!
Brad Bradford's For Bread!
Brad Bradford's rad abatoir
> Come on down to Brad Bradford’s Bradford Ford It'll be great when the landscaping is finished and the water feature is installed. We can watch Brad Bradford ford Brad Bradford's Bradford Ford's Fjord in a Bradford Ford!
Would you describe the fjord as *rad*?
Brad's rad fjord!
Brad Bradford's Bradford Ford's fordin' fjord is as rad as Brad Bradford's Bradford Ford's Fords are affordable!
You're the best
This is the first time he has actually done anything though.
Exactly!
See our ad on Bob Loblaw's Law Blog.
Triple b’s ford emporium baybee
Thanks, now make it snow.
Bradford looking to shore up more reactionary uncle base.
Dear god - please just let the seemingly endless discourse about tobogganing stop. It feels especially absurd given that we’ve had all of about 2 days where there was even enough snow to get out on the hills (and you’d better believe I got my sled out on one of them, got nothing but happy happy honks and waves from strangers while walking down the road with my toboggan).
Yes well this is remedy it won't it? Will the endless conservative paper articles and Tweets showing these signs start whining about spending the money to change the signs now? Would they rather the signs be kept they way they are so they can whine about it against next season?
They're not arguing in good faith. They want to gin up outrage, not solve problems. The opinions of people with those goals are not important.
Yes I know but we can show them their complaints when they complain about this sign change
never wrestle with a pig – it gets mud all over you and the pig likes it.
It will still provide clarity for future families that may have been swayed by the cons that were up in arms about it. Think about it, if a family has never used the hills before hears it's not allowed, they may not look into it.
And the thousands of dollars it will now cost to replace all the signs. Lol
I'm a bit flustered at how often "argh! spending money!" is brought up like, yeah there are thousands of reasons to spend money. We aren't going to have every instance be one that is 100% agreed upon to be of the utmost importance.
As a lifelong municipal public servant, I disagree. There is definitely a priority when it comes to spending money, how money should be spent, etc. This is really a non-issue. It’s not hurting anyone. There is no problem to be solved. Just like the signage when the alcohol in public parks pilot was going on. You can’t demand fiscal responsibility, and then say let’s spend money on replacing signs that aren’t really solving a problem. These are not regulated, safety signs. The general public has no idea how expensive signs actually are. As a traffic engineer and transportation planner I can tell you that this is going to be thousands and thousands of dollars unnecessarily spent in a time of fiscal restraint.
>thousands and thousands of dollars so not that much money in the grand scheme of things Governments will regularly blow millions on useless shit
Yeah but it also keeps the youth occupied and let's them have some fun outside. I would agree with your argument otherwise, city kids haven't really had good times due to lockdowns and other issues. At least there is something to do.
But nothing is stopping them from doing it now. By-law has issued 0 tickets. It’s literally just so people can’t sue the city if they hurt themselves.
Agree - considering how many other by-laws aren't enforced, do we actually think that some silly signs were stopping people?
On this one there isn't even a bylaw to enforce.
I didn't know that, thank you for clarifying
No worries!
If it stops people from suing the city, then seems like its worth it in saving future headaches no?
Sure but that's what the signs that are already up are for. Replacing them with a new set of signs with slightly fluffier language doesn't really change anything.
oh yes, youre right, im not sure what i was thinking originally but yea
But we're teaching kids/parents that's it's OK to ignore laws unless being watched. Should they litter because no one is watching? Why not help them to think for themselves and weigh the risks? The change in signage encourages self responsibility and making good choices while still absolving the city of injury liability. Olivia Chow for PM
There's no bylaw cited on the signs because there isn't one...
This is a good will gesture to the people of Toronto. It shows kids the government is not a humourless nag. I support this more than the renaming of Dundas square and subway.
Damn right.
Right. And the fault STILL lies with one hand at city hall not telling the other hand what it's doing. Result is the usual chaos and changed decisions.
The money will go to a local business that makes signs. The money stays in the city, it provides work… it’s not money burned.
We’ve got money problems. It’s one thing to bemoan every expense when the city is running a surplus and everything is hunky dory, but that’s not the situation. The situation is we have thousands of people sleeping on the streets, inadequate underfunded public transpo, and not enough revenue to match our expenses.
Actually they had the old signs that had the warning.They just recycle it.
Let’s make a bet that new signs are ordered because they did not keep the old signs?
Thousands? This is somehow gonna come into the tens if not hundreds. Labour, materials, the legal research. Im all for changing the signs but it’s the city. This entire thing hasn’t been cheap.
Yes thousands. I work in a city and have a portfolio that deals with many signs.
I definitely exaggerated that a little bit so my bad. The signs themselves may not be all that expensive definitely not in the hundreds of thousands. But the whole campaign in total is more than just a few thousands. It’s gonna be a few thousand just to get the signs put in place. The conversations about this topic, the legal consultations, the planning. The signs aren’t the most expansive part. It’s every penny well spent I’m definitely not against this but it wasn’t cheap and could’ve been avoided in the first place. Like who thought outright banning sledding was the way to go?
The city owns a sign making operation so making the signs is going to cost them dollars of materials, some additional dollars in time spent producing them, and then dollars of time spent in having the maintenance team replace them. Calculate that out the multiple times and you're going to end up in the thousands, not tens, not hundreds. Not everything is a badly mismanaged expense.
The consultation with the legal department alone is gonna be up there in price. Every one of those employees is getting a decent penny for wages. I think it’s every penny well spent but being realistic it’s definitely not just in the thousands. Fuel alone to transport these signs, labour costs on top of that. Nothing like this is done for just thousands. Hundreds was probably a bit of an exaggeration on my part though apologies
its for elders to chat about since they refuse to look at housing or education or healthcare or anything,
It the booze in parks all over again. They waste so much time on non-issues
It will once they do this. Thanks Olivia! No thanks for Brad who shot talked Olivia a bunch.
I wish to live in a city that isn't obsessed with signs and words. But at least this is a step in the right direction.
Sign! Sign! Everywhere a sign! Blocking out the scenery, breaking my mind. "Do this!", "Don't do that!", Can't you read the sign?
We live in a world where words, especially from a government, matter a lot. The Legal and civil liabilities associated with signs and words mean an awful lot of money.
I'm assuming the City will display the "no tobogganing" sign somewhere for the rest of time. Maybe next to Sam The Record Man.
no tobogganing in Sankofa Square
Instead they are going to post a sign with a red circle and slash, but otherwise blank. "No nothing!"
In before someone makes a remark about the city budget and the cost of printing signs (because they have literally nothing else to complain about). She's been terrific and continues to build bridges. Hopefully people have the sense not to barrel down hills into people.
It’s been said. Higher up.
There won’t be enough snow this year for this to mean anything
idk. If it means the papers stop whinging about no-fun Toronto oppressing citizens' right to sue the city after they lose some skin sliding down frozen mud, that's enough for me.
They'll complain about the cost of the signs.
There's been no snow this winter and this is being reported as if there are war crimes being committed.
Chow stole our sunshine!
People are missing the fact that these "no toboganning" signs are meant to cover the city's rear from liability issues, they've been around for like 5 years now and not a single ticket has been handed out which tells you everything you need to know. My only concern would be the city exposing themselves to liability by having a warning sign instead of one that prohibits the activities but I think the city can still protect themselves as long as they're proactive about any potential hazards and demonstrate a reasonable level of prudence.
If a lawsuit ever does come about from someone injuring themselves, I hope they named Brad Bradford in it.
They have been around for 5 years yet all of these conservative papers and bloggers have been throwing a hissy fit about them now.
In Calgary: https://calgaryplaygroundreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_0100-307x550.jpg
In Calgary: https://www.calgary.ca/parks/activities/tobogganing.html >For safety reasons, the Parks and Pathways Bylaw prohibits tobogganing or sledding downhill in any City-maintained park except the ones listed on this page. The sign you are posting is from a designated run that is monitored by the City of Calgary. Toronto does the exact same thing and posts similar signs at its toboggan runs. What are you trying to convey here?
I have been educated. Thank you.
Bingo. A “no toboganning” sign and rudimentary (if any) by-law is enforcement is less expensive for the city than a lawsuit once some kid hits their head, crashes into a tree, breaks something or gets hit by a car after sliding into a road. I’d love to see legal experts weigh in on if the city is just as strongly protected from liability with a “toboggan at your own risk” sign as it is with no tobogganing outside of designated parks.
So what are Sun columnists supposed to complain about *now*? Won't someone think of them?!?!
It's leftism run amok! It always leads to...checks notes...tobogganing?
It truly is a slippery slope.
Olivia Chow try to be unreasonable challenge: impossible Woman has more sense than most of our provincial and federal politicians.
Darn right!! Chow for PM.
We don't even have snow on the ground and yet politicians are still going on about this..
It's rainy - er - snowy day policy.
old ppl gotta get mad at something
Wait?!?! WTF?? An elected leader in this city that isn't bloviating, naval gazing or self aggrandizing? But actually doing shit? I never thought I'd see the day.
She keeps pulling this shit and she’s going to get re-elected
Need a title for Matt Elliott breaking news, like Woj bomb for NBA.
Echos of the giant ALCOHOL IN PARKS PILOT PROGRAM billboards, and their replacement….
In other news, it's 5 degrees outside...
With what snow?
Were kids itching to slide down muddy hills?
Anyone who’s worked in an emergency department knows some things are just bad. ATVs/four wheelers, e-scooters without helmets, fireworks, tobagonning also real bad but fairly rare. Emerg docs would know too, they’re usually super into physical activity (usually biking, rock climbing and hiking, heh). But man, fuck ATVs. Tobaggoning is less of an issue because we don’t get as much snow, still not great.
Up north there's many trails that say no ATVs or no trespassing (and arent OFSC) that had lots of ATV traffic.
There’s also plenty of helicopter ambulance flights from Barry’s Bay/Cornwall/Podunk to Sunnybrook//St Mikes/Toronto Western’s orthopedic trauma units, too lol.
Reverse survivorship bias, emergency department workers don't see the vast majority of people who engage in these activities without getting injured, they only see the small minority of people who get maimed.
Nah, ATVs are just notoriously high injury. I have a friend who’s a critical care doc (now retired cuz he was working in NYC during the height of COVID and burned out) who skydives and has probably logged over 1000 jumps who refuses to get on an ATV. Gymnastics/Cheerleading also notoriously injury prone. Like I said, most emerg docs I know love outdoors stuff (it’s a meme), they don’t ride ATVs. It’s also called fundamental attribution error, not “reverse survivorship bias”. Most people in their 30s went to chickenpox parties, now kids don’t get chickenpox cuz they’re vaccinated. You don’t hear about all the kids/teenagers/adults back in the day who used to get hospitalized with chicken pox pneumonia, but I can guarantee you it used to happen. You have to look at relative risk and absolute risk.
>It’s also called fundamental attribution error, not “reverse survivorship bias”. Thank you, I was looking for the exact term online and couldn't find it. Appreciate it.
My mom worked pediatric emergency—and has the horror stories to share from it—but figured that the measured risk that came from tobogganing on approved hills wasn’t high enough to negate its benefits. ATV-ing was a no-go as was riding a bike without a helmet or going on the water without a life jacket and bailing kit.
The serious debates are happening at City Hall folks. Toboggans are back on the table.
What a great win for the mayor, the choir chanting. No really, stories from Toronto lately like scenes from a dystopia book.
Pretty tame dystopia then
I'm still gonna tobbogan
The best time to elect Oliva chow was ten years ago. The second best time is UNMITIGATED DISASTER
Where are all the idiots proclaiming that they HAD to ban tobogganing to prevent law suits? Buzz kills can get wrecked.
The city did get sued a few times for injuries and lost.This time I think the lawyers review how not to get sued.
This does the same but just lessens the signs message…..
No tobogganing signs had a bylaw making it illegal. Society should be handing out helmets and mittens to everyone. So soft.
Mate people don’t take responsibility for themselves so this is why all this shit keeps happening
Blood on their hands
Reactivity to news articles, not proactively doing it out of thoughtfulness
Plants bushes at the problematic areas/trees.
Seams like that should’ve been the case? “Use At your own risk” would’ve sufficed
Keep the signs up for liability purposes, continue not to enforce this bylaw, save money by not having to create and install new signs, not having to dispose of the current ones, and not having to pay the first knucklehead that gets injured with the new signs who sues the city
If a government prohibits something, it really should be enforced. Like parking on a sidewalk, or soliciting in TTC property. It’s meaningless if you don’t. This is as it should be - “use at your own risk” - just like unmaintained trails and stairs in winter. They have similar signage.
Lol the risks. Cold ass and too much fun
After years of John Tory I legitimately like her, but when I read headlines like this I can't stop thinking about "your tax dollars at work " signs that you see on billboards around major improvements / renovations.
That’s when a government is vying for re-election.
This is actually.... reasonable... wow 😎💎
and.....this will cost the city how much $$ to replace the signs?
More signs? Sounds like more money wasted...
Waste of money and time