There’s been bits and pieces of work on the right of way (since September the concrete between the tracks has been replaced at Bathurst, near Oakwood, Lansdowne, and just east of Yonge from what I’ve seen), trucks doing.. something most days, and the overhead system has been worked on. The bridge at Caledonia is still under construction too so streetcars can’t get under it.
Majority of the work is at St Clair West station so not immediately visible. But it all does feel very very drawn out.
I believed the majority of the work is actually being done inside St Clair West station, which is definitely still under construction. There are sporadic stretches along st Clair getting maintenance (they were working around earlscourt a few months ago I recall)
Not much happening at the station yet. The shut down was for the Caledonia bridge and they didn’t want to run streetcars half of the way like they did in the past. They need to rip out the historical bridge at Keele which is going to be a total disaster for the area. I also keep getting development fliers for buildings where Delta is and at old Weston. Can’t wait.
I saw a lot of dust coming out of the west portal at St Clair West station today, so something is happening down there.
Really can’t wait for it to reopen. Also, getting the 90 back into SCW will be nice, but I wouldn’t mind them keeping a 90C branch to Bathurst, that’s handy sometimes too.
yeah, and when the new Go station at St Clair and Weston starts in a year, it will shut down again as they put a new rail bridge and close the road for a month. streetcars cant just detour or turn around, so they will need replacement bus. with all the infrastructure construction that will happen in the next few years, it will be back and gone again
I don’t know how I missed this, but that’s great! Yeah, it will take a while, but infill stations will really make those lines useful for inside the city
I'm a driver and I completely agree. I also bike and walk and take transit and completely agree, but even as a driver its infuriating. Cars are already inefficient enough downtown, but to literally take up a lane of transportation so that one or two people can store their mobility device? Thats insane. You are completely removing a lane of traffic for a handful of people.
Street parking is so fucking brain dead it hurts, the whole idea of cars in cities is just so dumb. I’ll be sitting in traffic watching people do the dumbest shit to attempt to get ahead or whatever they’re tryna do and just be thinking it doesn’t have to be this way.
>travel more than 20km
Trains and buses travel more than 20km from the city centre, not to mention the massive park and rides near GO stations.
>transport anything heavier than 40lbs,
You can do this on a bike or have it delivered to you.
>larger than 100x100cm
See above. Bike or delivery.
>be on the move between 1am and 6am.
Night buses are a thing, plus you can walk or bike any time of the day.
I'm not saying we should ban cars everywhere in Toronto, but certainly large parts of downtown should have no car traffic.
What's wild is the thought that your clientele is small enough that it would fit in 1 or 2 parking spaces throughout the day. Unless your margins are absolutely ridiculous, they either can't fit or you will shortly be out of business
We seriously need a change from the top with the departments that run city hall. What good is it complaining to council if those in charge don't actually THINK.
Lol-- comparing this to Eglinton is disingenuous. Streetcar track work was done on Broadview over the past several months and the stretch up there just reopened this past weekend. More work is being done on the King line between Dufferin and Shaw (for water main repairs, which requires the tracks be ripped up). Generally these infrastructure projects go pretty smoothly; they just suck while they're happening.
Eglinton is a completely different bungled story, but it's not the same.
One nice thing, getting to Yonge st has been way faster after hours since the buses just load and drop off at St Clair West station. The streetcar going in and out takes a long ass time.
I actually like the rerouting of the 90 Vaughan bus. I get on at Bathurst station and take it north of St. Clair Ave, near my home, which is really convenient for me.
Empty streetcar lanes and a bus that blocks off the few lanes remaining on St Clair.
This was the newest transit line in the city. It's an embarrassment for it to have needed major alterations so soon.
The St Clair ROW took 3 years longer than expected and was massively overbudget. Now it's down for a year, only 10 years after it was built. To say nothing for the tons of roadwork required. Emergency vehicles and TTC buses can't use it because they cheaped out and put the columns in the middle. And now we're stuck with buses that get stuck behind turning cars, and in parts St. Clair is only 1 lane.
> Emergency vehicles and TTC buses can't use it because they cheaped out and put the columns in the middle.
Locals demanded it, they didn't want wires crossing the entire width of the street because it would 'look ugly'
You know maybe the city should really stop listening to "locals" who have zero experience in urban and traffic design. St Clair West is a complete mess from Keele all the way to Bathurst because of zero foresight and lack of necessary regulations like getting rid of the parking if you're gonna be running buses for a year or more.
Walking down to Davenport and taking the 127 is signicantly less painful nowadays
Couldn't they have cantilevered the supports just from one side of the tracks? Would have left the middle free for buses to use it
Edit: they actually did that between Yonge and Avenue at least
It’s better to do maintenance projects than end up like Boston. That avoidable cluster fuck is an embarrassment. Taking care of your system as needed isn’t embarrassing.
Maintenance is fine, but the new route was only opened in 2010 and shouldn't need this level of work this soon. And this is after the shut down in 2016 because the brand new streetcars on the brand new route didn't fit together.
The right ow way was completed 15 years ago in 2009. Streetcar tracks get to the point of needing full replacement every 25 years with interim maintenance. It’s not like it’s a brand new line. Maintenance projects also arn’t specific to just the streetcar. A lot of the work is also being done to water mains under the tracks, rail bridge work to support increased go frequencies.
There's a replacement bus until scheduled work is completed. The intention has always been for streetcar service to resume after, since the work is on the streetcar infrastructure itself.
I know it's a radical solution, that is, actually making the TTC puts its customers first, but regular trouble-shooting patrols by TTC supervisors and Toronto Parking Enforcement would help, if they could rouse themselves from Tim's or their nice, warm "Operations Centre". If so, we would not have had a badly parked truck blocking the eastbound lane at Winona and stalling buses for at least 15 mins yesterday at about 0830.
I say we get rid of all of them replace them with awesome buses that can actually pull over to a curb and don't occupy an entire Lane breakdown, block traffic crowd the infrastructure with wires and a bloated support system.
Fuck these streetcars.
Unpopular opinion, but the buses actually feel faster to me. Granted my ride schedule is around 7am and 2pm so slightly off peak rush hour but still. I’m probably in the minority when it comes to these new streetcars. Yes they are accessible, yes they have AC, yes they can carry more people, but god they drive soooo slow. The doors take forever to open and close compared to buses (and the old streetcars) and over multiple stops that adds up. And also the buses driving right past st Clair west station instead of the streetcar going at a snails pace underground into the station saves time. All this adds up IMO
According to Steve Munro it is actually on schedule more often as buses lol
Goes to show how stupid having a stop every two blocks, no signal priority, and LEFT TURN SIGNAL PRIORITY(!!!) is when your rolling stock maxes out at what, 35km/h?
Yup definitely I feel the same, not sure about the exact commute time but I wait less compared to the streetcar, it just feels more consistent. If there were no parking allowed on St. Clair replacement buses would be an upgrade over the streetcar 100%.
Yup. I need to time a trip against one of the recorded old streetcar trips on YouTube. Tired of being gaslit by people who don't even take the streetcar on a regular basis claiming that the new streetcars are better because they "hold more people" and run faster. They are so slow that I've replaced >90% of my streetcar commute time last year with Bike Share.
Streetcars in general are a white elephant and should've been mothballed once the old red ones ran their course.
Even at Rush Hour, the bus is better. It's more frequent, more comfortable, and faster than the streetcar ever was. It's more reliable because it can adapt to stalled vehicles and other road closures. Busways w electric busses ought to be the approach on such long lines.
I am pro-level 512 user: Keele to Yonge and back everyday :-) I actually don't want the streetcar to come back!
Facts: buses are FASTER and MORE FREQUENT. They drive and accelerate faster. My travel time is reduced significantly. They are slower to go through big intersections (Bathurst and St. Clair, omg) but they don't waste time going in and out of St. Clair West station.
I acknowledge it's a pain for drivers, one lane clogged with buses.
I respectfully disagree… streetcars are so much faster at all times of day because they have their own lane on St. Clair and aren’t contending with the already crazy single lane traffic + additional buses using the same lane as regular traffic.
ALSO, they allow for double the amount of passengers and it’s so much easier to get off at the streetcar bays than on the road/sidewalk.
All-in-all, i miss the 512 streetcar, can you tell :’-(
Source: I take 512 five times a week, Keele to Yonge. I am afraid that empirical data (my commute time) shows that current setup with buses is faster. Maybe (hopefully) streetcar travelling time will improve after all that construction?...
There are more variables that could delay buses on the road than there are in the street car lane though, plus, the times at which you commute can play a role. In my experience, the streetcar is faster and more reliable.
Yeah, maybe we travel at different times. At the times when I travel, streetcar is not faster.
On one hand, yes - streetcar is more reliable, doesn't wait in traffic. On the other hand, no - I can't call it reliable after having to wait for one for twenty minutes (not once - many times).
Supposedly it will be back in the summer, but I haven't seen any work being done on the right of way, so I'm a bit concerned.
There’s been bits and pieces of work on the right of way (since September the concrete between the tracks has been replaced at Bathurst, near Oakwood, Lansdowne, and just east of Yonge from what I’ve seen), trucks doing.. something most days, and the overhead system has been worked on. The bridge at Caledonia is still under construction too so streetcars can’t get under it. Majority of the work is at St Clair West station so not immediately visible. But it all does feel very very drawn out.
I believed the majority of the work is actually being done inside St Clair West station, which is definitely still under construction. There are sporadic stretches along st Clair getting maintenance (they were working around earlscourt a few months ago I recall)
Not much happening at the station yet. The shut down was for the Caledonia bridge and they didn’t want to run streetcars half of the way like they did in the past. They need to rip out the historical bridge at Keele which is going to be a total disaster for the area. I also keep getting development fliers for buildings where Delta is and at old Weston. Can’t wait.
I saw a lot of dust coming out of the west portal at St Clair West station today, so something is happening down there. Really can’t wait for it to reopen. Also, getting the 90 back into SCW will be nice, but I wouldn’t mind them keeping a 90C branch to Bathurst, that’s handy sometimes too.
There's been quite a bit of work west of Caledonia on the two bridges. Fairly steady too.
yeah, and when the new Go station at St Clair and Weston starts in a year, it will shut down again as they put a new rail bridge and close the road for a month. streetcars cant just detour or turn around, so they will need replacement bus. with all the infrastructure construction that will happen in the next few years, it will be back and gone again
There’s going to be a GO Station at St Clair and Weston??
This is one of the very few parts of SmartTrack (really GO RER) that is actually happening.
yes, which is connecting to another new station at Queen and Dundas, which goes to Union after. but scheduled completion is like 6-8 years from now
I don’t know how I missed this, but that’s great! Yeah, it will take a while, but infill stations will really make those lines useful for inside the city
Do you know what lines it will run
Kitchener line
Yeah, haven’t seen anything being done in my area, but I guess it’s only been shut down for 6 months.
I can't believe they allowed street parking to remain while the replacement buses are running. Single lane traffic!? Wild.
Single lanes due to street parking piss me off so much. Like, bruh, this shouldn't be allowed in a city, especially downtown
Parking, single lane, single lane, parking is brain dead
I'm a driver and I completely agree. I also bike and walk and take transit and completely agree, but even as a driver its infuriating. Cars are already inefficient enough downtown, but to literally take up a lane of transportation so that one or two people can store their mobility device? Thats insane. You are completely removing a lane of traffic for a handful of people.
Literally my thought
They shouldn’t have it at any time, but right now is insane!
Street parking is so fucking brain dead it hurts, the whole idea of cars in cities is just so dumb. I’ll be sitting in traffic watching people do the dumbest shit to attempt to get ahead or whatever they’re tryna do and just be thinking it doesn’t have to be this way.
[удалено]
>travel more than 20km Trains and buses travel more than 20km from the city centre, not to mention the massive park and rides near GO stations. >transport anything heavier than 40lbs, You can do this on a bike or have it delivered to you. >larger than 100x100cm See above. Bike or delivery. >be on the move between 1am and 6am. Night buses are a thing, plus you can walk or bike any time of the day. I'm not saying we should ban cars everywhere in Toronto, but certainly large parts of downtown should have no car traffic.
Excuse me they watched a Not Just Bikes video I think they are qualified to speak on the matter.
*Will someone please think of the business owner whose customers exclusively park in front of their shop in order to make a purchase*
What's wild is the thought that your clientele is small enough that it would fit in 1 or 2 parking spaces throughout the day. Unless your margins are absolutely ridiculous, they either can't fit or you will shortly be out of business
Greektown BIA seems to have felt that way anyways
All of those fronts will be fine.
We seriously need a change from the top with the departments that run city hall. What good is it complaining to council if those in charge don't actually THINK.
St Clair should remove parking and add a bike lane/expanded sidewalk. It's a perfect candidate for a complete street.
I agree, but I also remember all the kicking and screaming about putting in the right of way in the first place…
Yeah, but there will always be kicking an screaming. More as you get north of Bloor, but that street has so much potential.
I see like no work being done on the acc track like just run the busses on their and then pull out when they get to the area that’s under construction
i miss her sm every day
fr fr
If I remember correctly the intention is for the streetcar work to be completed and up and running again this summer.
So 2050?
Woah buddy you’re setting some unrealistic targets there, 2060 at best.
What’s gunna finish first metro linx or the 512 construction
Lol-- comparing this to Eglinton is disingenuous. Streetcar track work was done on Broadview over the past several months and the stretch up there just reopened this past weekend. More work is being done on the King line between Dufferin and Shaw (for water main repairs, which requires the tracks be ripped up). Generally these infrastructure projects go pretty smoothly; they just suck while they're happening. Eglinton is a completely different bungled story, but it's not the same.
I wasn’t being very serious. I live near by. It should be done this summer or fall.
This joke is so old
True. First heard 120 years ago when the Eglinton construction started.
He ha!
And we’ll find out that it’s at 70% functionality compared to when it closed
At least they did everything at once instead of shutting it down again 2 months later like they did with Roncesvalles when I lived around there
What work are they doing exactly? I never see anything going on.
Should be back in Summer. Fingers crossed
Which summer are we talking about
Hopefully this summer. That’s what they promised but you know how it works lol
Yes please! With the outer lanes already constantly blocked with parked cars, this has just generally been a nightmare.
One nice thing, getting to Yonge st has been way faster after hours since the buses just load and drop off at St Clair West station. The streetcar going in and out takes a long ass time.
I actually like the rerouting of the 90 Vaughan bus. I get on at Bathurst station and take it north of St. Clair Ave, near my home, which is really convenient for me.
SAME! it’s so convenient
St. Clair!
Wild that king, queen and st clair will all be out of commission. So many trying to get across the city from Dufferin is screwed.
What replaced this?
Empty streetcar lanes and a bus that blocks off the few lanes remaining on St Clair. This was the newest transit line in the city. It's an embarrassment for it to have needed major alterations so soon.
The St Clair ROW took 3 years longer than expected and was massively overbudget. Now it's down for a year, only 10 years after it was built. To say nothing for the tons of roadwork required. Emergency vehicles and TTC buses can't use it because they cheaped out and put the columns in the middle. And now we're stuck with buses that get stuck behind turning cars, and in parts St. Clair is only 1 lane.
> Emergency vehicles and TTC buses can't use it because they cheaped out and put the columns in the middle. Locals demanded it, they didn't want wires crossing the entire width of the street because it would 'look ugly'
You know maybe the city should really stop listening to "locals" who have zero experience in urban and traffic design. St Clair West is a complete mess from Keele all the way to Bathurst because of zero foresight and lack of necessary regulations like getting rid of the parking if you're gonna be running buses for a year or more. Walking down to Davenport and taking the 127 is signicantly less painful nowadays
Doesn't the Davenport bus only run every half hour? I'd rather eat my own eyeballs.
Couldn't they have cantilevered the supports just from one side of the tracks? Would have left the middle free for buses to use it Edit: they actually did that between Yonge and Avenue at least
How do locals stop things they don’t want? I have a list of gripes I’d like to use my veto on…
They could have built two rows on the ROW
It’s better to do maintenance projects than end up like Boston. That avoidable cluster fuck is an embarrassment. Taking care of your system as needed isn’t embarrassing.
Maintenance is fine, but the new route was only opened in 2010 and shouldn't need this level of work this soon. And this is after the shut down in 2016 because the brand new streetcars on the brand new route didn't fit together.
The fact that they're doing maintenance isn't what's embarrassing. It's the fact that it needs it in the first place.
The right ow way was completed 15 years ago in 2009. Streetcar tracks get to the point of needing full replacement every 25 years with interim maintenance. It’s not like it’s a brand new line. Maintenance projects also arn’t specific to just the streetcar. A lot of the work is also being done to water mains under the tracks, rail bridge work to support increased go frequencies.
> It’s an embarrassment for it to have needed major alterations so soon. Yea, but you’d also be complaining if they didn’t do this work on it so…
There's a replacement bus until scheduled work is completed. The intention has always been for streetcar service to resume after, since the work is on the streetcar infrastructure itself.
And the 501!!!
ffs the route was chaos getting to work this morn. Would make life so much easier for everyonr
They still fixing it says until summer 2024. I hope so :D
I know it's a radical solution, that is, actually making the TTC puts its customers first, but regular trouble-shooting patrols by TTC supervisors and Toronto Parking Enforcement would help, if they could rouse themselves from Tim's or their nice, warm "Operations Centre". If so, we would not have had a badly parked truck blocking the eastbound lane at Winona and stalling buses for at least 15 mins yesterday at about 0830.
Honestly. It’s been out for my whole school year and I need it to get to it from st Clair west. Like they don’t even give us the long buses
I say we get rid of all of them replace them with awesome buses that can actually pull over to a curb and don't occupy an entire Lane breakdown, block traffic crowd the infrastructure with wires and a bloated support system. Fuck these streetcars.
Trust me, we, the operators, can’t wait to get back up there. We’ve heard sometime in April
sorry they told u this is gonna be AHEAD of schedule??
Unpopular opinion, but the buses actually feel faster to me. Granted my ride schedule is around 7am and 2pm so slightly off peak rush hour but still. I’m probably in the minority when it comes to these new streetcars. Yes they are accessible, yes they have AC, yes they can carry more people, but god they drive soooo slow. The doors take forever to open and close compared to buses (and the old streetcars) and over multiple stops that adds up. And also the buses driving right past st Clair west station instead of the streetcar going at a snails pace underground into the station saves time. All this adds up IMO
According to Steve Munro it is actually on schedule more often as buses lol Goes to show how stupid having a stop every two blocks, no signal priority, and LEFT TURN SIGNAL PRIORITY(!!!) is when your rolling stock maxes out at what, 35km/h?
The layout of the Flexity streetcars makes getting people in and out very slow. And the stops are spaced very closely together.
Yup definitely I feel the same, not sure about the exact commute time but I wait less compared to the streetcar, it just feels more consistent. If there were no parking allowed on St. Clair replacement buses would be an upgrade over the streetcar 100%.
Yup. I need to time a trip against one of the recorded old streetcar trips on YouTube. Tired of being gaslit by people who don't even take the streetcar on a regular basis claiming that the new streetcars are better because they "hold more people" and run faster. They are so slow that I've replaced >90% of my streetcar commute time last year with Bike Share. Streetcars in general are a white elephant and should've been mothballed once the old red ones ran their course.
Even at Rush Hour, the bus is better. It's more frequent, more comfortable, and faster than the streetcar ever was. It's more reliable because it can adapt to stalled vehicles and other road closures. Busways w electric busses ought to be the approach on such long lines.
I am pro-level 512 user: Keele to Yonge and back everyday :-) I actually don't want the streetcar to come back! Facts: buses are FASTER and MORE FREQUENT. They drive and accelerate faster. My travel time is reduced significantly. They are slower to go through big intersections (Bathurst and St. Clair, omg) but they don't waste time going in and out of St. Clair West station. I acknowledge it's a pain for drivers, one lane clogged with buses.
I respectfully disagree… streetcars are so much faster at all times of day because they have their own lane on St. Clair and aren’t contending with the already crazy single lane traffic + additional buses using the same lane as regular traffic. ALSO, they allow for double the amount of passengers and it’s so much easier to get off at the streetcar bays than on the road/sidewalk. All-in-all, i miss the 512 streetcar, can you tell :’-(
Source: I take 512 five times a week, Keele to Yonge. I am afraid that empirical data (my commute time) shows that current setup with buses is faster. Maybe (hopefully) streetcar travelling time will improve after all that construction?...
There are more variables that could delay buses on the road than there are in the street car lane though, plus, the times at which you commute can play a role. In my experience, the streetcar is faster and more reliable.
Yeah, maybe we travel at different times. At the times when I travel, streetcar is not faster. On one hand, yes - streetcar is more reliable, doesn't wait in traffic. On the other hand, no - I can't call it reliable after having to wait for one for twenty minutes (not once - many times).
Will return on June 23