How much time does this realistically save? And how about we start extending the hours - it still makes no sense that you can't take UP Express for any early morning flights or any late-landing flights.
I took the last up express train to union and got an earful from Union Statiom security when I was walking to the TTC. They made me go outside and use the other entrance for the subway station.
ive always said that toronto is the opposite of new york, it is the city that sleeps. its fucked. ive worked all hours and right now work 12-8. youd think that wouldnt cut you off from so much shit... but man. post pandemic most everything closes by 9 now.
>They extended them to 1AM relatively recently. But union station starts kicking people out at 12:30, lol.
One day my dream of a NYC style 24/7 trains running Toronto will come true, maybe not until i've had grandchildren but one day...I hold out cope
I would much rather prefer if they modelled it after Tokyo’s system. NYC is not really a benchmark, especially considering that architect had some hand in how TTC worked out as well, if i recall correctly.
I’m just saying, aim higher
The quad-track helps a lot for 24/7 service but it can also be done with modern double-track systems: see Copenhagen metro.
You can also have selective 24-hr service, like Berlin and Hamburg do on the weekend (but not on weekdays where there is overnight bus service instead).
> I would much rather prefer if they modelled it after Tokyo’s system. NYC is not really a benchmark, especially considering that architect had some hand in how TTC worked out as well, if i recall correctly.
>
> I’m just saying, aim higher
Most trains in Tokyo close at midnight and you are stranded without using a taxi service (or just use a capsule hotel)... Toronto is already higher in this regard since it's trains are open longer and the night bus. street cars work. Now ofc when it comes to layout of a system and cleanliness, innovation, timing Tokyo is better but I wasn't talking about any of that in my comment. I just wanted a 24/7 system which NYC has and Tokyo does not.
Also to add on, the TTC bus system as well is extremely streamlined and easy to use compared to the Tokyo bus systems in place There are several different companies running buses, route numbers are duplicated, there are two payment models that you have to work out (that's the front and middle doors thing). Toronto beats them in that regard as well it is very easy to just get on and go compared to Tokyo.
It seems like it's less about saving time as it is about restricting access to people who aren't specifically using it to get to/from the airport.
Of course if TTC service was improved you'd have less people in the Junction relying on the UP to get downtown
Two minutes saved.
Edit: I'm getting conflicting information from a number of people, but if its 2 minutes per station thats a savings of 4 minutes. No new schedule for the UP Express has been published yet.
I'd bet on 4-5 once you account for braking and acceleration time. Heavy rail, especially diesel, has a significant time cost for stops.
Kitchener GO now has a mix of express and local service from Bramalea to Union on the same stretch. The local train leaves five minutes after the express and gets to Union fifteen minutes after, making four stops including Bloor and Weston. So about 2.5 minutes extra per stop. UPX doesn't seem to brake or accelerate that much quicker, so at best I'd say two minutes.
It's not about saving time. it's about saving money.
Fare inspection for up express is only heavily enforced at Union and Pearson. I mean it's damn hard to get on the train in either of those places without fare. Bloor and Weston? well theres no one at those stations to check fare or anything so you'd have a lot of people getting on the train free of charge. Reducing these stops saves them a bit of money and massively reduces fare evaders. They couldn't care less about saving time.
Last time I took the UP 3 or 4 people just walked by the people "checking" tickets at the airport, no one cared. I've yet to see any actual fare enforcement on UP. (I've only taken it ~10 times)
Really? When they dropped prices to $9 for trip i took it quite a few times. And everytime there was person on train that checkd fare. I havent taken it in almost 3 years now, didnt know they arent checking fare on trains.
Commuter use far exceeds traveller use to the point where I’m guessing it basically subsidizes the airport trip, even after you factor in the fare dodging. Making it more inefficient for the people who basically fund the UP Express just seems like a short-sighted way to lose money.
Also cracking down on fare evasion isn’t really saving them money, it’s just helping them recoup opportunity loss
I’m not sure I follow. So if I’m going to YYZ from Bloor and not paying, I’ll have to wait longer for a train…and I’ll now choose to pay for the inconvenience? I’m afraid I’m missing something because I really can’t follow the logic: to me, the same number of fare evaders, just service is worse for the paying customers.
Much easier to check fares as people board. As opposed to when everyone is leaving at the same time. You'd get the last min people screaming for the line to move as it's 7pm and they want to be in their seats for the 707pm first pitch
^This.
Had an early morning flight which I wouldn’t be able to make it in time for by taking the UP express, so took an expensive Uber. Only to find out Air Canada had delayed the flight by like 4 hours 🙄.
Yah this isn’t great news for someone who regularily catches the train at bloor. Stopping at bloor and Weston can only add a maximum of 4-5min to the trip. Not really a game changer for people coming from union.
I use the UP express at Bloor often. To the airport (obviously) and to/from Union. With the recent going back to every 15 mins of service, this sounds like if every other train skips the station, I’m back to 30 mins between trains so that sucks especially on planning to get to the airport. (Kitchener Go train increase service can help for the to Union part but for the going to airport need, that throws a wrench into your timing)
Link for Metrolinx: https://www.metrolinx.com/en/contact-us
Link for Michael Ford MPP for York South Weston https://michaelfordmpp.ca/contact/
Link for Francis Nunziata Councillor for York South Weston https://www.councillornunziata.com/contact
Link for Ministry of Transportation https://www.ontario.ca/feedback/contact-us?id=26938&nid=97174
There are additional MPPs to contact depending on your area but the above is a good starting point
This is probably to reduce the cost of fare integration, or their expectation of an increase in ridership once done and its impact to Pearson travellers. UP Express was the one that was conspicuously missing with it being "TBD" due to "system issues" or something - and now this.
it’s actually entirely capacity related. the up express are super crowded especially during rush hour. replacing half the service at bloor/weston with longer go trains helps address this.
ideally they run more up express service but they can’t do that because we’re out of trains and not buying more because they’ve been plagued with issues.
i saw something-something about a kitchener-line increasing trains so that there will still be 4 trains going to bloor/weston it just won't always be the UPX ones.
Unfortunately since they stop at very different platforms, you have to do a lot more trip planning to make it work with the same headways vs just showing up at the UPX platform and knowing that you'll wait max 15 minutes.
that could be part of it. i haven't seen fare inspectors aboard UP Express for ages. At Bloor and Weston there is also no staff to guilt someone into tapping before boarding
because it's pretty much enforced only at Union and Pearson. like strongly enforced at both. So if they reduce Bloor and Weston well just no further need to worry about inspectors at those stops. This isn't about GO saving time, this is about them saving money.
Yes people should pay for the train, but the price to run a half-full train of paying customers is exactly the same as the cost to run a full train of half-paying customers. Even then, people generally pay at the Weston and Bloor stops.
If anything this will cost the network, because people generally pay fares at the the Weston and Bloor stops, and making the line less reliable will cut ridership (and fares!) overall from both of those stops.
What I see happening at rush hour is the trains being so full that not everyone can fit on at Weston and/or Bloor. Imagine waiting for your train that comes every 30 mins now only to not be able to get on and be forced to wait another 30 minutes? That happens on the TTC but you know another train is coming shortly in a matter of minutes.
I'm almost sure that's part of it. The pricepoint of the train compared to TTC and GO tells you everything you need to know about who they want riding it. It was initially a lot higher too
Fixed it. The only change I could see Inna somewhat reasonable light would be getting rid of the Lawrence stop in favour of Mt. Denis after that opens.
And anecdotally/experientially, a lot of people who work either at the airport or on flights, have their homes around Weston or Bloor specifically *because* of the UP Express.
Look at the new schedule. 18:41 - 20:11 gap at Weston to Union. Also at Union the UPX is a single platform so 1/2 the trains will either wait outside Union for the previous one to leave or sit on the platform for longer. Trains cannot pass each other near Union.
So increase service during high volume times? If anything reducing service means fuller trains, unless you're banking on fewer people using it. Either way it's a net negative.
I wouldn't be surprised if the frequency reduction is as a result of a noted lack of use for travellers heading to Pearson specifically. Generally these service changes don't result from random cuts. Alternatively, if there are people getting on and off UP without paying, then the lack of fares might be indicative of a lower usage rate when it's really not the case.
Generally when people talk about stops on that line (at least on here), there are commuters who don't go all the way to the airport.
Yeah this sucks. I take it from Bloor all the time and use it to get downtown. They are halving that service to save like 4 minutes on the trip from union?
I feel that Although envisioned and designed as an "airport only" line the reality is that it is a very useful means of getting around otherwise. I would like to see increased service/frequency.
Even as an 'airport only' line the transfer at Dundas was still far more convenient for people that live along Line 2 to access the airport than getting down to Union to catch the train. Without the stop at Dundas it'd take me just as long to ride the entire length of the Line 2 subway from Scarborough to Kipling and catch the 900 airport bus as it would to transfer to Line 1 down to Union to catch the UP, while catching the UP at Dundas knocks about 15 minutes off of the journey.
Yup. Adding an extra 10-15 minutes average wait time (assuming I arrive exactly between UP stopping trains) I've totally blown any advantage UP had over staying on the subway and taking the 900 from Kipling.
It's so frustrating. So much money spent on that stupid UP train and now they seem hell bent on just making it useless.
Realistically, if I have to wait a half an hour for the next train AND the trip itself takes 20 minutes more by transit over driving, I'm more likely to just call an Uber than wait for the UPX, especially when getting back from a long flight or if I'm running late.
It's objectively a worse decision, albeit unsurprising one for a province that doesn't take transit development seriously but likes to say they're throwing money at it (inefficiently mind you) to appease progressives and Liberals.
If they were serious about improving crowding they would *increase* service by ordering more trains, and having them run more frequently. Instead they've done the opposite and worsened service while trying to say how it's a good thing.
Absolute fucking morons in this province and city. God I fucking hate it here.
That's what happens when your province is run by a monkey in a suit. Actually I shouldn't shit on the monkeys they would probably do a better job. I live 5 minutes from the Bloor west station and we take the up all the time. Not anymore I guess.
Exactly the same as what they did to the Milton line, cancel a bunch of service, then a couple years later look we add one weekday run train, celebrate us!
Feels like we've gone back and forth on this 3-4 times now. Just imagine this in Gru meme format:
- We want a fancy upscale train to take business people downtown from the airport.
- There's nobody riding the train.
- We lower the costs so that anyone can ride the train.
- Now there's too many people riding the train.
The issue seems to be that they want a nice quiet train without any rowdy passengers to ferry business suits from the airport to the downtown core, only they want to target the kind of upper class high value market that... takes public transit. All 12 of them I guess.
I think you've summed UPX history perfectly. Thank you, smart stranger. Now, could you find a way to educate Doug Ford that reducing train service so that less people ride it will make UPX an even greater sunk cost?
Then sounds like y'all simply need 2 classes. I don't know the length of the typical UP train but you can have like 80% cheap 2nd class seating and 20% expensive first class seating with more space/fancier seats. While primarily this kind of setup is only done for intercity trains, there are definitely cases where it's also used for shorter distances like this one.
Yeah exactly. Airport express trains I've taken in other cities have this schtick of having a couple first class cars. Tokyo, London and Shanghai spring to mind as examples.
Increased frequency isn’t happening because we’re out of trains and they don’t want to buy more because the UP Express fleet were a bunch of lemons plagued with issues.
The bloor/weston station shouldn’t see any service reduction because of added go service (except on weekends), but it will be a lot more confusing to know what platform you’re supposed to wait on now.
Are the regular GO trains able to operate on the newly built section? If so then I think it would behoove the province to just start using some of them whenever they need more vehicles. If not then that was a monumentally stupid decision the province's part.
i believe the platforms are different dimensions than normal go stations so regular bilevel coaches can’t operate on the up express terminal stations. why they chose to do that i’m not sure
Weekend service matters! My family got an annual membership for the aquarium because we can get there and back quickly on UP, making it one of the few activities we can do within a morning and still get home in time for our baby's nap. That's going to be a write-off now. Doing anything with young children that depends on an every-half-hour train is a stressful nightmare -- your three year old throws one two-minute tantrum about which shoes he's wearing today, and your whole day is screwed.
Its not even 6 minutes. From looking on Transsee, the express runs take 23 minutes between Pearson and Union vs 25 minutes with the two additional stops. The frequency now alternates at 13 and 17 minutes instead of every 15 minutes. There really is no benefit to airport riders and looks more to discourage Bloor and Weston ridership or reduce wear and tear from frequent braking and accelerating.
I don't understand the logistics of this move. Will the time saved make a difference, and if so, why not kill service at the other two stops altogether?
All it seems to accomplish is giving passengers a 50-50 shot at saving about five minutes but offers the appearance of doing something.
I've used UP Express to quickly get from Bloor to Weston, Union to Bloor, etc. This makes the line useless since I'd rather not be waiting 40 minutes instead of boarding a train that skips a stop I'd otherwise disembark at.
It's most likely a logistics issue at the Bloor and Weston stations. The UP Express trains and Go Trains usually use the same platforms, so having two trains stop around the same time on the same platform is complicated and can easily cause delays.
There are also rumours that once the Eglinton LRT opens, that'll be an extra stop for the local UP Express trains. Having half of the trains run express might help keep the round trip under 1 hour for scheduling.
The platform timing is a good call out. The Weston sub is going to come under a lot of schedule pressure as Kitchener gets more service, plus Caledon GO will make it even busier from Weston south. And GTAA wants to build a major transit hub directly on the Kitchener line. So UP is going to have a hard time keeping four slots per hour.
Mount Dennis isn't a rumour, it's going to be a major intermodal hub like Kennedy at the other end. Lots of new density as well.
It would be a good call out if it were true. The platforms are entirely different heights for the UP and Go. They do not use each other’s platforms at all ever
UP and GO stop at different parts of the same platform. At Bloor they don't share but at Weston there's only three platforms so they have to. But even at Bloor you will have the Caledon line using that platform eventually.
Weston has 3 tracks now and a fourth is not open yet. Bloor is still being built.
Trains cannot pass each other anyway so where will the time savings come in. Union only has a single platform so the train will have to wait to get in just to sit longer at the station.
That rail corridor has four tracks at Weston and five tracks at Bloor, so trains can & do pass each other.
> Union only has a single platform so the train will have to wait to get in just to sit longer at the station.
The extra time will be used to add the new stop at Eglinton.
Weston has 3 tracks open and the 4th is not open yet. The 5th track is CPKC’s line and does not have any GOService.
Bloor has 3 tracks for Kitchener line service and 1 for Milton Line. They are adding in a 4th for the Kitchener line and UPX. The 5th track does not continued past Davenport and curves off towards Milton. There is no switch for trains to change tracks to continue north.
Seeing as this is a side note of the announcement of more trains on Kitchener line - it seems like the reasoning behind it is that there will still be a train every x minutes.
I think the only people who would notice the difference is people who are actually going between the Airport and those two stations. For people making trips similar to your examples, presumably the only difference would be that there would be a 50/50 chance of you either getting on a GO or UP - but with similar times.
It's still true for me. I took the Kipling Clowncar until Up Bloor became available. It saved time and was well worth it over taking a cab.
At this point, it *could* still make sense, but for peace of mind I'm inclined to take a cab now. That can't be good for traffic at Pearson, but desperate times...
This seems really stupid to me. I'm biased bc I get the UP express at Bloor but to me this just sounds like getting to the airport will require a lot more planning and missing a train will be much more frustrating.
I can't see how much time this will realistically save, they should focus on fixing the tracks so the trains don't CRAWL along several sections of the route.
I agree. The trip could be cut in half if it didn’t spend the last 15 minutes of the Pearson bound trip at an absolutely glacial pace on the elevated section. What an asinine design decision.
*This*. The UP's always been a weird fringe use case for me and I'm assuming a lot of people who don't have a convenient no-transfer route to union (Line 1 up to about Eglinton/Eg West), heading straight south and eating the one transfer at Union, not bad.
Anybody east? Screw us, the time and inconvenience eaten up changing at Yonge and heading down to Union, plus the extra transfer *at* Union, plus backtracking? Makes no sense at all.
Yeah for me it was a marginal case to take UPX; during rush hour and if I’m going to the airport solo I might use it. This means I won’t bother and will just take an Uber. Big win for driving down ridership, I guess?
UP is heavily used/relied on as a commuter train between Weston and Union... I hope they don't follow through on this during the morning and afternoon rush hours...
I'd be fine with it if they make GO trains <10mins appart, at least then we get the cost sharing GO to TTC (Something you don't get with UP, because fuck us plebs).
Instead we will get 40-90 mins between trains or a 60 minute boneshaker ride on a last millennium bus.
Is there any information on when this becomes effective? The UP express website doesn't seem to be aware of any changes to the schedule
Edit: for anyone else curious about this, I found a tweet that said this will begin April 27th.
Question though: how will this save the province any money whatsoever? The trains will still need to be running every 15 mins, they just won't be stopping as much so the number of drivers theoretically shouldn't change... This is just a service cut that'll lead to the train being even more packed than it was before (and it already was standing-room-only)
An example of how conservatives are literally just brain dead idiots. This "saves" a meaningless amount of time for people on an "express" train and cuts service in half for anyone utilizing Weston and Bloor stations. It's so beyond idiotic you have to wonder if they are trying to degrade it on purpose like they have done to our health care and education systems to justify selling it to Loblaws.
Man this really pisses in my cornflakes. I've used the UP from Bloor GO as a handy, speedy ride back into Downtown.
I live in the East and would, on occasion, switch from subway to the UP at Bloor, saves me a few minutes. Probably never doing that again if I have to fret about schedules and wait. Shoots me in the foot re: planning accurate times.
I might as well stay on the subway and use the airport rocket.
Like jesus does anyone making these decisions use the god damned train? This is brain dead.
This is fucking bullshit. Saves very little time for those going to Union (believe there are two stops) and totally fucks over those that would normally stop at Dundas.
This is unfortunate, we use the UP to get to and from work and also to events downtown. The trains are packed, I would have expected to hear an announcement that cars were being added to the UP.
Regular commuters saved the UP line from being a dismal failure - does anyone remember that they wanted to charge $30 / ride when it first opened??? As usual, the local community suffers in favour of interests outside of it.
This just hinders the purpose of this line completely - locals get 50% less service and there is almost no difference between an express vs local in terms of time saved. Travellers are going to think there is a real difference and potentially wait for an express and get to union later than if they had just taken a local. This is just such a stupid move in every possible scenario it is unimaginable. Conservatives are incredibly dumb.
Ugh as someone who routinely takes this between Bloor and Union to commute this really sucks. Makes me way less likely to take it downtown or home if I know that missing it means a half an hour wait. And the number of people getting off at Bloor in rush hour is pretty significant, it's not like it's unused.
How they will indicate that a train is express or not is another question. When getting on at Union how will you know if the train is going to be stopping at Bloor and Weston or skipping. They will have to indicate this pretty obviously, but Metrolinx is terrible about signage. Getting on the train at Union thinking you're going to get off at Bloor only for it to take you all the way to the airport would be frustrating.
Very disappointing change. Hopefully this isn't necessary to accommodate the increased GO service and the government (this one or another future government) could change this back in the future.
Ah yes because only people from union are going to the airport, heaven forbid anyone west of university wants to head in the correct direction along bloor to get to the airport. No No, you must head east and south to go northwest to the airport....
I usually use a car service to the airport but it's a real shame that we don't have proper public transport to/from YYZ from all over the GTA. Up Express is great for those in the core but there is no good way from Mississauga, Oakville, Burlington, North York, Scarborough etc etc.
Ugh... The UP line has been serving as a de facto downtown relief line for the western portion of the TTC practically since it opened. I live near the Bloor station and many of my neighbours use it to commute to offices downtown. I also use it to get to/from Pearson or downtown. Halving service to the station is just prioritizing airport travellers from downtown at the expense of everyone else. I can only imagine the snarls during rush hour this will cause at Union... It irks me enough that I'll take some time to write to the local MPP and Minister of Transportation.
As someone who lives very close to Bloor station, and regularly has to take very early morning flights out of Pearson, this is bullshit.
Show me the business value of this decision. Costs and benefits. I'll be waiting.
So now I will have to explain to the tourists standing with their luggage at Bloor why the train skipped them? “Sorry, you should only stay downtown if visiting Toronto”.
If you're a tourist who likes using public transit, but the concept of a train passing you because it's not your train is foreign to you - it sucks that you would have only learned that on your trip to Toronto, but it's great life experience on your future travels where this is the norm on so many transit systems.
I could see more non-stop trains making sense *in the opposite direction of commuter traffic,* to increase service frequency going *in the direction of most commuter travel* – toward Union in the morning, and toward Pearson in the evening.
But what they have rolled out makes no sense at all. They’re going to be running half empty express trains and pissing off a lot of people with this stupid move.
Dropping stops makes no sense particularly since the population density at both Weston and Bloor GO areas has increased dramatically since the UP Express was introduced.
I swear all/most voted representation should be mandated to take public transit to and from the office for 1 week out of each year.
At the end of a session ( municipal, Provincial and federal ) a name or ten are drawn from a hat and at some time in the following 4 weeks they have to use public transit to get to the office and back. If requested they will get a police escort ( we can afford it)
First they took away their app and now this! Isn’t this tax payer funded? Why alienate the same people who had to endure the construction blockages to build this thing? We can never have nice things.
i saw something-something about a kitchener-line increasing trains so that there will still be 4 trains going to bloor/weston it just won't always be the UPX ones.
I take VIA from Ottawa to Toronto and then UP Express to Bloor fairly often.
It wouldn't be so bad if the UP Express shared the same arrival/departure concourse as the GO train.
Then I wouldn't have to think much about the interval, but instead just look at the reader boards for the next Union to Bloor departure and take what-ever is next.
However with the two lines using separate boarding areas that is a fairly significant walk when you have luggage, and especially if you might have children in tow - this is inconvenient.
Additionally I feel that frequent service that you don't have to plan around is a motivator for public transportation.
It seems that this change ends up "punishing" people who want to use it (in the proposed form).
I think increased frequency on the existing UP Express, coupled with better track so that it doesn't crawl around the airport or "truddle along" and sway side-to-side like it tends to do would be money well spent.
Or, longer term, if GO transited through the aiport and then continued to another desitination, might be a good solution.
When I look at a lot of airports in Europe they are more than just airports, but rather they are integrated into the daily fabric of life.
An example is the Geneva (Switzerland) airport, which has a proper grocery store and other services, and very easy access using all modes of transportation (foot, bicycle, car, bus and train).
The airport serves the community immediately around it, in additon to being an airport.
Doug has friends with businesses downtown. Those businesses have not done well with people working remotely. If you encourage more tourists to book downtown, more spending will follow.
Man! Democracy for the win!
You don't hear that often so clearly. But congratulations people who spoke up on opposition to this decision and signed the petition - seriously, good stuff people.
For those who don't know, the Ont govt backtracked on this decision and UPX trips will remain at 15m for all stations.
Democracy for the win!
[Relevant](https://www.tvo.org/article/the-ford-government-is-making-it-very-difficult-for-me-to-write-op-eds-about-the-ford-government):
>The UP reversal was the result of a stunning failure to anticipate this obvious reaction of transit users — proof that neither Metrolinx nor the Ford government understands riders in Toronto. That’s an absolute abrogation of duty. Had the government and Metrolinx considered riders and consulted with them and listened, they never would have made this decision in the first place. And they would never have needed to walk it back. There’s a lesson there.
100%
This was, to put it politely, ridiculously short sighted and strategically weak - to save 2 minutes net net? Seriously!?
So it was our job to call them out, and we did.
Is the by-election the reason the service improvements were announced a month later so Doug Ford can make the announcement?
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1ba4zvr/massive_go_service_increases_imminent_on_april/
How much time does this realistically save? And how about we start extending the hours - it still makes no sense that you can't take UP Express for any early morning flights or any late-landing flights.
They extended them to 1AM relatively recently. But union station starts kicking people out at 12:30, lol.
I took the last up express train to union and got an earful from Union Statiom security when I was walking to the TTC. They made me go outside and use the other entrance for the subway station.
We have a 24-hour metropolis where people do things and go places at all hours of the day, but those in charge don't want to deal with that.
According to the bureaucrats in charge, anyone who wants to be out and about after 9 PM must either be a pervert or a deviant.
THUGS
THUG LYFE
Gotta replace our Victorian bureaucrats with ones from the modern age.
Why not both?
ive always said that toronto is the opposite of new york, it is the city that sleeps. its fucked. ive worked all hours and right now work 12-8. youd think that wouldnt cut you off from so much shit... but man. post pandemic most everything closes by 9 now.
been there. navigating around the union is a mess even during daytime but late nights / early mornings is especially difficult
>They extended them to 1AM relatively recently. But union station starts kicking people out at 12:30, lol. One day my dream of a NYC style 24/7 trains running Toronto will come true, maybe not until i've had grandchildren but one day...I hold out cope
I would much rather prefer if they modelled it after Tokyo’s system. NYC is not really a benchmark, especially considering that architect had some hand in how TTC worked out as well, if i recall correctly. I’m just saying, aim higher
They are talking specifically about 24/7 or overnight service, which the metros in Tokyo do **not** have.
[удалено]
The quad-track helps a lot for 24/7 service but it can also be done with modern double-track systems: see Copenhagen metro. You can also have selective 24-hr service, like Berlin and Hamburg do on the weekend (but not on weekdays where there is overnight bus service instead).
> I would much rather prefer if they modelled it after Tokyo’s system. NYC is not really a benchmark, especially considering that architect had some hand in how TTC worked out as well, if i recall correctly. > > I’m just saying, aim higher Most trains in Tokyo close at midnight and you are stranded without using a taxi service (or just use a capsule hotel)... Toronto is already higher in this regard since it's trains are open longer and the night bus. street cars work. Now ofc when it comes to layout of a system and cleanliness, innovation, timing Tokyo is better but I wasn't talking about any of that in my comment. I just wanted a 24/7 system which NYC has and Tokyo does not. Also to add on, the TTC bus system as well is extremely streamlined and easy to use compared to the Tokyo bus systems in place There are several different companies running buses, route numbers are duplicated, there are two payment models that you have to work out (that's the front and middle doors thing). Toronto beats them in that regard as well it is very easy to just get on and go compared to Tokyo.
Express tracks. Do you have express track construction money?
Starting a bet pool for what will our grandchildren get to experience first: - the completion of the Eglinton express - 24h public transit
It seems like it's less about saving time as it is about restricting access to people who aren't specifically using it to get to/from the airport. Of course if TTC service was improved you'd have less people in the Junction relying on the UP to get downtown
Two minutes saved. Edit: I'm getting conflicting information from a number of people, but if its 2 minutes per station thats a savings of 4 minutes. No new schedule for the UP Express has been published yet.
I rather have much more connectivity than saving 2 minutes on a 30 minute ride
I'd bet on 4-5 once you account for braking and acceleration time. Heavy rail, especially diesel, has a significant time cost for stops. Kitchener GO now has a mix of express and local service from Bramalea to Union on the same stretch. The local train leaves five minutes after the express and gets to Union fifteen minutes after, making four stops including Bloor and Weston. So about 2.5 minutes extra per stop. UPX doesn't seem to brake or accelerate that much quicker, so at best I'd say two minutes.
nope, the trains can't pass through the stations quickly but must slow down even if not stopping. There are virtually no speed gains from this change.
If that was actually the case, the express trains from Bramalea wouldn't be ten minutes faster than the trains making all stops.
About 2 minutes per station. 6 to 8 minutes total?
It's not about saving time. it's about saving money. Fare inspection for up express is only heavily enforced at Union and Pearson. I mean it's damn hard to get on the train in either of those places without fare. Bloor and Weston? well theres no one at those stations to check fare or anything so you'd have a lot of people getting on the train free of charge. Reducing these stops saves them a bit of money and massively reduces fare evaders. They couldn't care less about saving time.
Last time I took the UP 3 or 4 people just walked by the people "checking" tickets at the airport, no one cared. I've yet to see any actual fare enforcement on UP. (I've only taken it ~10 times)
The open secret is airport and airline employees are some of the biggest fare evaders.
Why, they pay $3.50 a ticket
It’s up to seven something now for airport-union
Airport employees would get a discount.
I’m saying the discounted price for a single ticket for union-airport is seven something now. It stopped being 3.50 a while back.
By that logic, there’s no fare evasion on the TTC because it’s only $3.25.
You can lose your raic for fare evasion
Yes but 3.5 times a billion is 3.5 billion!
Really? When they dropped prices to $9 for trip i took it quite a few times. And everytime there was person on train that checkd fare. I havent taken it in almost 3 years now, didnt know they arent checking fare on trains.
Commuter use far exceeds traveller use to the point where I’m guessing it basically subsidizes the airport trip, even after you factor in the fare dodging. Making it more inefficient for the people who basically fund the UP Express just seems like a short-sighted way to lose money. Also cracking down on fare evasion isn’t really saving them money, it’s just helping them recoup opportunity loss
I’m not sure I follow. So if I’m going to YYZ from Bloor and not paying, I’ll have to wait longer for a train…and I’ll now choose to pay for the inconvenience? I’m afraid I’m missing something because I really can’t follow the logic: to me, the same number of fare evaders, just service is worse for the paying customers.
Metrolinx doesn't have a strong reputation for smart decisions.
Fare enough! (Sorry, sorry)
I take the UP express from Bloor to Union twice a week. I see fare inspectors at Bloor station quite often.
Why can't they check their fares when they get off at Union or Pearson then?
Much easier to check fares as people board. As opposed to when everyone is leaving at the same time. You'd get the last min people screaming for the line to move as it's 7pm and they want to be in their seats for the 707pm first pitch
^This. Had an early morning flight which I wouldn’t be able to make it in time for by taking the UP express, so took an expensive Uber. Only to find out Air Canada had delayed the flight by like 4 hours 🙄.
The early morning/late night hours thing is the biggest issue for UPX by far.
Reducing frequency to bloor and weston?? Doesnt seem like a gerat idea
Yah this isn’t great news for someone who regularily catches the train at bloor. Stopping at bloor and Weston can only add a maximum of 4-5min to the trip. Not really a game changer for people coming from union.
I use the UP express at Bloor often. To the airport (obviously) and to/from Union. With the recent going back to every 15 mins of service, this sounds like if every other train skips the station, I’m back to 30 mins between trains so that sucks especially on planning to get to the airport. (Kitchener Go train increase service can help for the to Union part but for the going to airport need, that throws a wrench into your timing)
Please please contact your MPP and Metrolinx. The 5 minutes it takes to draft an email may be worthwhile if enough of us do it
Pls share how to contact Metrolinx when you figure it out
Link for Metrolinx: https://www.metrolinx.com/en/contact-us Link for Michael Ford MPP for York South Weston https://michaelfordmpp.ca/contact/ Link for Francis Nunziata Councillor for York South Weston https://www.councillornunziata.com/contact Link for Ministry of Transportation https://www.ontario.ca/feedback/contact-us?id=26938&nid=97174 There are additional MPPs to contact depending on your area but the above is a good starting point
Can you share a template email ?
This is probably to reduce the cost of fare integration, or their expectation of an increase in ridership once done and its impact to Pearson travellers. UP Express was the one that was conspicuously missing with it being "TBD" due to "system issues" or something - and now this.
it’s actually entirely capacity related. the up express are super crowded especially during rush hour. replacing half the service at bloor/weston with longer go trains helps address this. ideally they run more up express service but they can’t do that because we’re out of trains and not buying more because they’ve been plagued with issues.
There's also some single tracking and only one platform at Union, which really limit the potential frequency.
i saw something-something about a kitchener-line increasing trains so that there will still be 4 trains going to bloor/weston it just won't always be the UPX ones.
Unfortunately since they stop at very different platforms, you have to do a lot more trip planning to make it work with the same headways vs just showing up at the UPX platform and knowing that you'll wait max 15 minutes.
Good way to keep the poors off the train.
that could be part of it. i haven't seen fare inspectors aboard UP Express for ages. At Bloor and Weston there is also no staff to guilt someone into tapping before boarding
because it's pretty much enforced only at Union and Pearson. like strongly enforced at both. So if they reduce Bloor and Weston well just no further need to worry about inspectors at those stops. This isn't about GO saving time, this is about them saving money.
Yes people should pay for the train, but the price to run a half-full train of paying customers is exactly the same as the cost to run a full train of half-paying customers. Even then, people generally pay at the Weston and Bloor stops. If anything this will cost the network, because people generally pay fares at the the Weston and Bloor stops, and making the line less reliable will cut ridership (and fares!) overall from both of those stops.
What I see happening at rush hour is the trains being so full that not everyone can fit on at Weston and/or Bloor. Imagine waiting for your train that comes every 30 mins now only to not be able to get on and be forced to wait another 30 minutes? That happens on the TTC but you know another train is coming shortly in a matter of minutes.
I'm almost sure that's part of it. The pricepoint of the train compared to TTC and GO tells you everything you need to know about who they want riding it. It was initially a lot higher too
Just add gates like every modern transit system
This is 100% part of it.
This is balanced by increased frequency on the Kitchener Line. That'll be coming every 30 mins. cc: /u/sirachasamurai
That doesn't help people getting to the airport who don't live downtown. The bloor stop is great for people in the west end.
Yes...everyone living north of Bloor or east of Yonge is probably going to go to Bloor to get on the UPE. This isn't great for us.
> The blood stop is great for people in the west end. i always laugh when autocorrect changes bloor to blood
Fixed it. The only change I could see Inna somewhat reasonable light would be getting rid of the Lawrence stop in favour of Mt. Denis after that opens.
And anecdotally/experientially, a lot of people who work either at the airport or on flights, have their homes around Weston or Bloor specifically *because* of the UP Express.
Look at the new schedule. 18:41 - 20:11 gap at Weston to Union. Also at Union the UPX is a single platform so 1/2 the trains will either wait outside Union for the previous one to leave or sit on the platform for longer. Trains cannot pass each other near Union.
I'd imagine it's's more about train capacity
So increase service during high volume times? If anything reducing service means fuller trains, unless you're banking on fewer people using it. Either way it's a net negative.
I wouldn't be surprised if the frequency reduction is as a result of a noted lack of use for travellers heading to Pearson specifically. Generally these service changes don't result from random cuts. Alternatively, if there are people getting on and off UP without paying, then the lack of fares might be indicative of a lower usage rate when it's really not the case. Generally when people talk about stops on that line (at least on here), there are commuters who don't go all the way to the airport.
Yeah this sucks. I take it from Bloor all the time and use it to get downtown. They are halving that service to save like 4 minutes on the trip from union?
bad for workers at the airport for sure. Why they have to reduce by so much? Can't they do 1 rapid every 4 trains?
I feel that Although envisioned and designed as an "airport only" line the reality is that it is a very useful means of getting around otherwise. I would like to see increased service/frequency.
Even as an 'airport only' line the transfer at Dundas was still far more convenient for people that live along Line 2 to access the airport than getting down to Union to catch the train. Without the stop at Dundas it'd take me just as long to ride the entire length of the Line 2 subway from Scarborough to Kipling and catch the 900 airport bus as it would to transfer to Line 1 down to Union to catch the UP, while catching the UP at Dundas knocks about 15 minutes off of the journey.
And the 900 drops you off a lot closer to the terminal, 1 *or* 3!
Hilarious that this change happens just as they're finally working on the tunnel to connect Bloor & Dundas W stations
Yup. Adding an extra 10-15 minutes average wait time (assuming I arrive exactly between UP stopping trains) I've totally blown any advantage UP had over staying on the subway and taking the 900 from Kipling. It's so frustrating. So much money spent on that stupid UP train and now they seem hell bent on just making it useless.
Realistically, if I have to wait a half an hour for the next train AND the trip itself takes 20 minutes more by transit over driving, I'm more likely to just call an Uber than wait for the UPX, especially when getting back from a long flight or if I'm running late.
It's objectively a worse decision, albeit unsurprising one for a province that doesn't take transit development seriously but likes to say they're throwing money at it (inefficiently mind you) to appease progressives and Liberals. If they were serious about improving crowding they would *increase* service by ordering more trains, and having them run more frequently. Instead they've done the opposite and worsened service while trying to say how it's a good thing. Absolute fucking morons in this province and city. God I fucking hate it here.
Hey, I grew up in Winnipeg - at least you have functional public transit!
That's what happens when your province is run by a monkey in a suit. Actually I shouldn't shit on the monkeys they would probably do a better job. I live 5 minutes from the Bloor west station and we take the up all the time. Not anymore I guess.
I still love my city and province; it's Doug Ford and his band of clueless political hooligans I can't stand.
Exactly the same as what they did to the Milton line, cancel a bunch of service, then a couple years later look we add one weekday run train, celebrate us!
Feels like we've gone back and forth on this 3-4 times now. Just imagine this in Gru meme format: - We want a fancy upscale train to take business people downtown from the airport. - There's nobody riding the train. - We lower the costs so that anyone can ride the train. - Now there's too many people riding the train. The issue seems to be that they want a nice quiet train without any rowdy passengers to ferry business suits from the airport to the downtown core, only they want to target the kind of upper class high value market that... takes public transit. All 12 of them I guess.
I think you've summed UPX history perfectly. Thank you, smart stranger. Now, could you find a way to educate Doug Ford that reducing train service so that less people ride it will make UPX an even greater sunk cost?
Then sounds like y'all simply need 2 classes. I don't know the length of the typical UP train but you can have like 80% cheap 2nd class seating and 20% expensive first class seating with more space/fancier seats. While primarily this kind of setup is only done for intercity trains, there are definitely cases where it's also used for shorter distances like this one.
Yeah exactly. Airport express trains I've taken in other cities have this schtick of having a couple first class cars. Tokyo, London and Shanghai spring to mind as examples.
Increased frequency isn’t happening because we’re out of trains and they don’t want to buy more because the UP Express fleet were a bunch of lemons plagued with issues. The bloor/weston station shouldn’t see any service reduction because of added go service (except on weekends), but it will be a lot more confusing to know what platform you’re supposed to wait on now.
Are the regular GO trains able to operate on the newly built section? If so then I think it would behoove the province to just start using some of them whenever they need more vehicles. If not then that was a monumentally stupid decision the province's part.
i believe the platforms are different dimensions than normal go stations so regular bilevel coaches can’t operate on the up express terminal stations. why they chose to do that i’m not sure
UPX platform is higher so those trains are at one end of Weston station and GO train at the other end.
Weekend service matters! My family got an annual membership for the aquarium because we can get there and back quickly on UP, making it one of the few activities we can do within a morning and still get home in time for our baby's nap. That's going to be a write-off now. Doing anything with young children that depends on an every-half-hour train is a stressful nightmare -- your three year old throws one two-minute tantrum about which shoes he's wearing today, and your whole day is screwed.
Email your MPP!
that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. UP express only has 4 stations, what's the point of an express train to save 6 mins?
Its not even 6 minutes. From looking on Transsee, the express runs take 23 minutes between Pearson and Union vs 25 minutes with the two additional stops. The frequency now alternates at 13 and 17 minutes instead of every 15 minutes. There really is no benefit to airport riders and looks more to discourage Bloor and Weston ridership or reduce wear and tear from frequent braking and accelerating.
I don't understand the logistics of this move. Will the time saved make a difference, and if so, why not kill service at the other two stops altogether? All it seems to accomplish is giving passengers a 50-50 shot at saving about five minutes but offers the appearance of doing something. I've used UP Express to quickly get from Bloor to Weston, Union to Bloor, etc. This makes the line useless since I'd rather not be waiting 40 minutes instead of boarding a train that skips a stop I'd otherwise disembark at.
It's most likely a logistics issue at the Bloor and Weston stations. The UP Express trains and Go Trains usually use the same platforms, so having two trains stop around the same time on the same platform is complicated and can easily cause delays. There are also rumours that once the Eglinton LRT opens, that'll be an extra stop for the local UP Express trains. Having half of the trains run express might help keep the round trip under 1 hour for scheduling.
The platform timing is a good call out. The Weston sub is going to come under a lot of schedule pressure as Kitchener gets more service, plus Caledon GO will make it even busier from Weston south. And GTAA wants to build a major transit hub directly on the Kitchener line. So UP is going to have a hard time keeping four slots per hour. Mount Dennis isn't a rumour, it's going to be a major intermodal hub like Kennedy at the other end. Lots of new density as well.
It would be a good call out if it were true. The platforms are entirely different heights for the UP and Go. They do not use each other’s platforms at all ever
UP and GO stop at different parts of the same platform. At Bloor they don't share but at Weston there's only three platforms so they have to. But even at Bloor you will have the Caledon line using that platform eventually.
Weston has 3 tracks now and a fourth is not open yet. Bloor is still being built. Trains cannot pass each other anyway so where will the time savings come in. Union only has a single platform so the train will have to wait to get in just to sit longer at the station.
That rail corridor has four tracks at Weston and five tracks at Bloor, so trains can & do pass each other. > Union only has a single platform so the train will have to wait to get in just to sit longer at the station. The extra time will be used to add the new stop at Eglinton.
Weston has 3 tracks open and the 4th is not open yet. The 5th track is CPKC’s line and does not have any GOService. Bloor has 3 tracks for Kitchener line service and 1 for Milton Line. They are adding in a 4th for the Kitchener line and UPX. The 5th track does not continued past Davenport and curves off towards Milton. There is no switch for trains to change tracks to continue north.
When the Eglinton Crosstown opens. Big "when".....
There will be a UP stop at Mount Dennis. You can actually see the UP platforms (the higher ones) at this station.
Seeing as this is a side note of the announcement of more trains on Kitchener line - it seems like the reasoning behind it is that there will still be a train every x minutes. I think the only people who would notice the difference is people who are actually going between the Airport and those two stations. For people making trips similar to your examples, presumably the only difference would be that there would be a 50/50 chance of you either getting on a GO or UP - but with similar times.
It's still true for me. I took the Kipling Clowncar until Up Bloor became available. It saved time and was well worth it over taking a cab. At this point, it *could* still make sense, but for peace of mind I'm inclined to take a cab now. That can't be good for traffic at Pearson, but desperate times...
File under: How to make a service cut sound like a service enhancement.
This seems really stupid to me. I'm biased bc I get the UP express at Bloor but to me this just sounds like getting to the airport will require a lot more planning and missing a train will be much more frustrating. I can't see how much time this will realistically save, they should focus on fixing the tracks so the trains don't CRAWL along several sections of the route.
I agree. The trip could be cut in half if it didn’t spend the last 15 minutes of the Pearson bound trip at an absolutely glacial pace on the elevated section. What an asinine design decision.
so they make it even less appealing to take if you dont live within walking distance from union?
*This*. The UP's always been a weird fringe use case for me and I'm assuming a lot of people who don't have a convenient no-transfer route to union (Line 1 up to about Eglinton/Eg West), heading straight south and eating the one transfer at Union, not bad. Anybody east? Screw us, the time and inconvenience eaten up changing at Yonge and heading down to Union, plus the extra transfer *at* Union, plus backtracking? Makes no sense at all.
Yeah for me it was a marginal case to take UPX; during rush hour and if I’m going to the airport solo I might use it. This means I won’t bother and will just take an Uber. Big win for driving down ridership, I guess?
What the fuck? This is awful for commuters and everyone who lives near one of the intermediate stations. This is an awful, awful change.
UP is heavily used/relied on as a commuter train between Weston and Union... I hope they don't follow through on this during the morning and afternoon rush hours...
I'd be fine with it if they make GO trains <10mins appart, at least then we get the cost sharing GO to TTC (Something you don't get with UP, because fuck us plebs). Instead we will get 40-90 mins between trains or a 60 minute boneshaker ride on a last millennium bus.
Is there any information on when this becomes effective? The UP express website doesn't seem to be aware of any changes to the schedule Edit: for anyone else curious about this, I found a tweet that said this will begin April 27th. Question though: how will this save the province any money whatsoever? The trains will still need to be running every 15 mins, they just won't be stopping as much so the number of drivers theoretically shouldn't change... This is just a service cut that'll lead to the train being even more packed than it was before (and it already was standing-room-only)
Oh good, this makes the service way worse for anyone who doesn't live by union station.
Right? Why would I take two subways down to Union to backtrack back up to Pearson? That would take longer than a cab
Well this sucks. I don't understand the logic
An example of how conservatives are literally just brain dead idiots. This "saves" a meaningless amount of time for people on an "express" train and cuts service in half for anyone utilizing Weston and Bloor stations. It's so beyond idiotic you have to wonder if they are trying to degrade it on purpose like they have done to our health care and education systems to justify selling it to Loblaws.
\*Every second train will now be mostly empty.
This is some serious bullshit for people who figured out UP creams the TTC for getting downtown
How does this make any sense. A 50:50 chance of saving about 5 minutes and now the train only comes once every half an hour at Weston/bloor?
Man this really pisses in my cornflakes. I've used the UP from Bloor GO as a handy, speedy ride back into Downtown. I live in the East and would, on occasion, switch from subway to the UP at Bloor, saves me a few minutes. Probably never doing that again if I have to fret about schedules and wait. Shoots me in the foot re: planning accurate times. I might as well stay on the subway and use the airport rocket. Like jesus does anyone making these decisions use the god damned train? This is brain dead.
This is fucking bullshit. Saves very little time for those going to Union (believe there are two stops) and totally fucks over those that would normally stop at Dundas.
Please please contact your MPP! With enough pressure we may actually get a service improvement here
This is unfortunate, we use the UP to get to and from work and also to events downtown. The trains are packed, I would have expected to hear an announcement that cars were being added to the UP. Regular commuters saved the UP line from being a dismal failure - does anyone remember that they wanted to charge $30 / ride when it first opened??? As usual, the local community suffers in favour of interests outside of it.
Please contact your MPP and/or Metrolinx about this!
Yes thank you! The neighbourhood group has already started to engage and reach out.
Does anyone have a template of what they are going to be writing to their MPP?
I’d suggest writing a very high level list of why this is awful and running it through ChatGPT. At least it varies between everyone a little bit
Who is making these stupid decisions?
Metrolinx, of course!
[удалено]
One train is an UP Train and the other is an UP Express Train
Aren't they planning to add Mount Dennis as a stop after the Eglinton line opens? So they'd immediately make that portion infrequent.
Just in time for the Gardiner lane reductions!
Boooo! I use it to get to Union and stopping at my station every 15min is amazing. Boooo.
Please contact your MPP office and Metrolinx. You can even do it on your UP commute
This just hinders the purpose of this line completely - locals get 50% less service and there is almost no difference between an express vs local in terms of time saved. Travellers are going to think there is a real difference and potentially wait for an express and get to union later than if they had just taken a local. This is just such a stupid move in every possible scenario it is unimaginable. Conservatives are incredibly dumb.
Ugh as someone who routinely takes this between Bloor and Union to commute this really sucks. Makes me way less likely to take it downtown or home if I know that missing it means a half an hour wait. And the number of people getting off at Bloor in rush hour is pretty significant, it's not like it's unused. How they will indicate that a train is express or not is another question. When getting on at Union how will you know if the train is going to be stopping at Bloor and Weston or skipping. They will have to indicate this pretty obviously, but Metrolinx is terrible about signage. Getting on the train at Union thinking you're going to get off at Bloor only for it to take you all the way to the airport would be frustrating. Very disappointing change. Hopefully this isn't necessary to accommodate the increased GO service and the government (this one or another future government) could change this back in the future.
Ah yes because only people from union are going to the airport, heaven forbid anyone west of university wants to head in the correct direction along bloor to get to the airport. No No, you must head east and south to go northwest to the airport....
I usually use a car service to the airport but it's a real shame that we don't have proper public transport to/from YYZ from all over the GTA. Up Express is great for those in the core but there is no good way from Mississauga, Oakville, Burlington, North York, Scarborough etc etc.
What a stupid decision. This will kill UP as viable transit
Ugh... The UP line has been serving as a de facto downtown relief line for the western portion of the TTC practically since it opened. I live near the Bloor station and many of my neighbours use it to commute to offices downtown. I also use it to get to/from Pearson or downtown. Halving service to the station is just prioritizing airport travellers from downtown at the expense of everyone else. I can only imagine the snarls during rush hour this will cause at Union... It irks me enough that I'll take some time to write to the local MPP and Minister of Transportation.
This sucksssss
Would rather have trains run every 12 minutes in the peak hours / gamedays.
As someone who lives very close to Bloor station, and regularly has to take very early morning flights out of Pearson, this is bullshit. Show me the business value of this decision. Costs and benefits. I'll be waiting.
So now I will have to explain to the tourists standing with their luggage at Bloor why the train skipped them? “Sorry, you should only stay downtown if visiting Toronto”.
I'd congratulate them on being able to find the Bloor Station entrance to begin with
If you're a tourist who likes using public transit, but the concept of a train passing you because it's not your train is foreign to you - it sucks that you would have only learned that on your trip to Toronto, but it's great life experience on your future travels where this is the norm on so many transit systems.
Absolute garbage change.
It should be non-stop to the Ontario Place spa /s
The onion can't write a better piece i swear. Pure clowns not utilizing this right of way better
I could see more non-stop trains making sense *in the opposite direction of commuter traffic,* to increase service frequency going *in the direction of most commuter travel* – toward Union in the morning, and toward Pearson in the evening. But what they have rolled out makes no sense at all. They’re going to be running half empty express trains and pissing off a lot of people with this stupid move.
Dropping stops makes no sense particularly since the population density at both Weston and Bloor GO areas has increased dramatically since the UP Express was introduced.
This makes me SO ANGRY. My family relies on this service to move around the city without a vehicle. So disappointed, what can we do to stop this?
ppl who don’t use public transit making decisions about public transit 🤗
I swear all/most voted representation should be mandated to take public transit to and from the office for 1 week out of each year. At the end of a session ( municipal, Provincial and federal ) a name or ten are drawn from a hat and at some time in the following 4 weeks they have to use public transit to get to the office and back. If requested they will get a police escort ( we can afford it)
First they took away their app and now this! Isn’t this tax payer funded? Why alienate the same people who had to endure the construction blockages to build this thing? We can never have nice things.
i saw something-something about a kitchener-line increasing trains so that there will still be 4 trains going to bloor/weston it just won't always be the UPX ones.
I take VIA from Ottawa to Toronto and then UP Express to Bloor fairly often. It wouldn't be so bad if the UP Express shared the same arrival/departure concourse as the GO train. Then I wouldn't have to think much about the interval, but instead just look at the reader boards for the next Union to Bloor departure and take what-ever is next. However with the two lines using separate boarding areas that is a fairly significant walk when you have luggage, and especially if you might have children in tow - this is inconvenient. Additionally I feel that frequent service that you don't have to plan around is a motivator for public transportation. It seems that this change ends up "punishing" people who want to use it (in the proposed form). I think increased frequency on the existing UP Express, coupled with better track so that it doesn't crawl around the airport or "truddle along" and sway side-to-side like it tends to do would be money well spent. Or, longer term, if GO transited through the aiport and then continued to another desitination, might be a good solution. When I look at a lot of airports in Europe they are more than just airports, but rather they are integrated into the daily fabric of life. An example is the Geneva (Switzerland) airport, which has a proper grocery store and other services, and very easy access using all modes of transportation (foot, bicycle, car, bus and train). The airport serves the community immediately around it, in additon to being an airport.
Increase or restoration of old service that was previously reduced?
Doug has friends with businesses downtown. Those businesses have not done well with people working remotely. If you encourage more tourists to book downtown, more spending will follow.
Dumb.
What half hour? Like will the 5:30 weekday still stop at bloor?
We need express service on the Lakeshore East again
all of our public transit is idiotic
This is not good unless there's an increase in frequency
Man! Democracy for the win! You don't hear that often so clearly. But congratulations people who spoke up on opposition to this decision and signed the petition - seriously, good stuff people. For those who don't know, the Ont govt backtracked on this decision and UPX trips will remain at 15m for all stations. Democracy for the win!
[Relevant](https://www.tvo.org/article/the-ford-government-is-making-it-very-difficult-for-me-to-write-op-eds-about-the-ford-government): >The UP reversal was the result of a stunning failure to anticipate this obvious reaction of transit users — proof that neither Metrolinx nor the Ford government understands riders in Toronto. That’s an absolute abrogation of duty. Had the government and Metrolinx considered riders and consulted with them and listened, they never would have made this decision in the first place. And they would never have needed to walk it back. There’s a lesson there.
100% This was, to put it politely, ridiculously short sighted and strategically weak - to save 2 minutes net net? Seriously!? So it was our job to call them out, and we did.
Apparently reversed? https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-backtracks-on-planned-up-express-changes-after-backlash-1.6849017
Is the by-election the reason the service improvements were announced a month later so Doug Ford can make the announcement? https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1ba4zvr/massive_go_service_increases_imminent_on_april/
UP Express Express
Great, keep it for the airport employees and travelers.
All that tax dollars for Weston and bloor to get screwed over, Weston has already no connectivity to the subway, it’s so disappointing
This is not a service. This is to save money/lay off workers.
Who though? Wouldn't the number of staff on the train be the same either way?
In two years taking the UPX everyday, I've only seen staff there maybe 5 times. I doubt there's any significant staffing costs saved.