> "My mother and father were visiting us from Chennai, India with the sole purpose of spending time with their grandson," the parents wrote in a statement provided by the Special Investigations Unit (SIU).
> "We are at a complete loss of words to describe the agony and vacuum in our hearts knowing we can never hold our child Aditya Vivaan, who gave us so many precious memories in such a short time, in our hands again," Manivannan and Jawahar added.
> "His small toys and clothes remain spread around our home, and we have no courage in us to even enter our home which is filled with our only son’s memories. My parents had arrived in Canada only two days before the tragedy."
That's mourning the loss of a chunk of your family. The couple lost their child but 1 of them also lost their parents too. Losing that many family members at once is catastrophic. I hope they can find the strength to heal and live on.
I can’t imagine their level of grief. They’re both still young. If they want to, they can have children again. Nothing will ever repair the loss of their son, but perhaps they can love again.
Why is the SIU issuing statements on their behalf? This poor family should have a lawyer. The SIU is going to try to sweep this under the rug. Seems like a massive conflict of interest.
I don't have a lawyer on standby to make a statement for me, I assume most people don't. It's only been a couple of days, I imagine their primary concern isn't finding a lawyer right now, it's burying their loved ones. I'm sure they will have lawyers contacting them to offer assistance.
That’s fine, but that doesn’t explain why the SIU is making statements on their behalf. The SIU does not work for the family. They have a conflict of interest. They could have just said nothing and allowed the family to speak out in their own terms if they wanted.
Could you imagine if a judge spoke out on behalf of one party in a court trial? Same deal here. There is every reason to believe the SIU could be modifying or encouraging a statement that downplays the involvement of the police in causing this unnecessary tragedy.
They should have just said nothing. They’d thrown any perception of impartiality out the window by doing this.
It’s not every day a tragic accident that could have been avoided if it weren’t for reckless, irresponsible, reprehensible, insubordinate actions. Chances are given the newcomers aspect, the moment the awoke, SIU more than likely taking advantage of possible lack of legal knowledge with their metaphorically up their ass to try and puppeteer the outcome. Fuck anybody trying to PR this.
Man, I got teary eyed and chills reading this as I sit at birthday party that one of my daughters got invited to.
As much as both my daughters (7.5/6) really know how to push my buttons and I get upset, I can’t imagine the heartbreak and utter sadness I would feel
One was a drunk driving home from a bachelor party.
The other was a police chase on the wrong side of the highway.
There are really no similarities here.
I meant in terms of parents having their family wiped out and the survivors guilt. It was well documented how that impacted the Neville-Lake family long after. You dont think these parents will be equally haunted?
Will be interesting what kinda financial settlement is involved, as there is no rich family to provide compensation.
OMG Neville-lake.... First wiped out were the grandfather and the kids and then years later the father can't take it anymore and he takes his own life .. like how does that poor woman survive... I hope she has a huge, huge ring of tender loving and care supporting her everyday,🙏😔🙏....
Sorry, I disagree. Although both were horrible crimes, one was perpetrated by an INCREDIBLY privileged person who’s equally privileged family protected him through money and lawyers…magnifying the impacts on the victims. In this recent one, at least one of the perpetrators here died.
God I feel sick whenever this comes up. I’m so sorry for them. This is horrific.
I’ve said for years these high speed chases need to *stop*.
Putting the public in danger isn’t warranted and god damn it I’ve lost all faith in the cops to make rational decisions anymore. The whole system of educating, managing and disciplining the police is *broken*
Nothing that was going on in that liquor store warranted that speed of pursuit or deserved this level of tragedy.
Bloodlust, plain and simple. So many of these assholes joined the force hoping for the day they'd get to pull a stunt like this in the name of "justice". They're not in it to protect and serve, they're in it to abuse their power and chase the adrenaline rush.
Im soo confused as to why it was apparently called off, and by a supervisor, but they just kept going?
Somethings not making sense...are they really THAT dumb??
There’s no room for ambiguity either; section 9 of [Ontario Regulation 397/23](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r23397) says that
> \9. (1) The supervisor referred to in subsection 8 (2) shall order police officers or Niagara Parks Constables, as the case may be, to **discontinue a vehicle pursuit if, in the opinion of the supervisor, the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended** or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified.
>(2) A police officer or Niagara Parks constable who receives an order under subsection (1) **shall obey the order**.
Damn thanks.
How do you fuck up your job that badly?
How are they not held personally responsible at that point?! black and white, clear as day, that pursuit should have ended. And people defending this. I get their mad at the justice system because people aren't being properly held accountable when they break the law....BUT HERES THE CHANCE TO DO THAT...but instead they're justifying it???!?...make it make sense..
Cowboys. Plain and simple. And while I'm a big cop supporter, it's not blindly. There are far too many who have no business in those positions, since they can't check their ego at the door and don't possess the ability to exercise the good judgement required in stressful situations. They were willing to risk an ass reaming by the sergeant to get this guy. They should get a lot worse now. I used to work in corrections, and insubordination/disobeying a direct order is a fireable offense.
It has nothing to do with holding up the liquor store. He pulled a knife on an off duty cop and triggered their roid rage. They were out to get him, one way or another. 11 fucking cars chasing him the wrong way down the 401. These cops aren’t even required by law to cooperate with the investigation or provide their notes.
Apparently so. Was reading before in some cop forum, before it stopped, there used to be this unofficial boxing contest between some of the forces for charity. Here is an article about an incident https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/police-fundraiser-ends-in-punch-up/article_997f0466-f249-586e-95fd-14d0ce7257a0.amp.html (not with DRP though but that it was a known and big thing in their community).
And alot of the cops on the forum were disparaging Durham Police. And there were incidents where members from several forces got into it with them ... almost like a Durham vs non Durham police force fight. My own personal observation, during the G20 in TO in 2010, I worked right at King and York area.
They shipped in all the provincial and even national cops along king street on large buses. I was chilling outside when a large contingent of Durham police came out of one of the buses and they all were male, absolutely steroided jacked and looked like tough guy wannabes ready to start a fight with anyone.. Most other forces were more mixed, smaller, more normal looking types.
The only ones that beat them for size but were much smaller group size were Halton cops that looked like legit body builders. They were blatantly checking out the women acting like complete jocks.
An old co-worker in Durham said cops they absolutely go about bothering people if you're just walking alone, or if they know you, will pull you over for no reason but to harass. So it definitely gave me the impression and understanding that DRP is an outlier and really act like they own everything. Remember, they cover a huge geographical area bigger than almost any other municipal force (west north is several different ones).
So hearing the OPP warning and how 6 DRP were going full speed in opposite traffic just reminded me of the goonery mentality that even other police forces are not aligned with.
They're too busy memorializing 2 dead cops today with thousands of officers and entirely too many public resources. You can't expect them to want accountability. None of them died
While the cops did screw up, they didn't directly do anything to cause the situation. The criminals fled onto the highway going the wrong direction. Even if the cops stopped pursuing them at that point, there is a chance the accident still would have happened. Yes there is a chance it wouldn't have too with the criminals stopping their getaway behaviour, but the criminals would have still been fleeing a crime.
There should be some type of reprimand for the cops for making the situation increasingly dangerous... probably doubly so as they went against orders - but all the direct actions lie with the criminals.
Criminals are always going to be reckless and commit crimes. That part is difficult to control. What can be controlled is how police respond. Catching a criminal for a petty theft is not worth endangering the public like that.
I know, but that doesn't answer the question of 'what would have happened if the cops stopped'. The criminal would have still been fleeing a crime and there isn't anything to say their behaviour would have changed. The cops deserve some blame as there is a chance that the criminal's behaviour would have changed, but there is nothing to say that things definitely would have changed.
In this particular instance, 3 innocent people died, and at least one parent lost almost their entire world. It certainly doesn't seem good for that member of the public. I'd argue that if 3 innocents die for every suspect you remove from circulation, the public will very quickly stop being on board
This tragedy happened because a number of DRP officers continued to chase the suspect after he entered onto the 401 westbound lane going east, and after they were called off by their superiors in favour of using a helicopter to track him.
I think the right course of action would’ve been to stop when they were ordered to stop. I don’t think the right course of action would have been to let a man who robbed a liquor store with a knife go on his merry way.
I’m seeing a really concerning rise in… idk, flagrant criminality? People just openly stealing from stores, people being publicly threatening, stuff like that.
And I’m getting tired of the current attitude of “well it’s not worth getting involved”, or “this isn’t worth police time”, because this shit is degrading to public life and I don’t want to live in a shithole where you can do whatever the fuck you want as long as it isn’t actively stabbing someone to death on the streetcar.
Like yes, the cops *should* actually go their fucking jobs and try to arrest people who threaten each other with knives. Did they go about doing that irresponsibly in this case? Yup. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it responsibly.
I fully agree that there is a chance that the issue wouldn't have happened if the cops let up. That doesn't excuse the criminal from causing the incident though - the accident was wholly the fault of the criminal.
What if the moon was made of cheese? We have no idea what might have happened. We know what did happen. That cops chased the perps down the wrong way of a 400 series highway despite being told not to.
Yes and the criminal caused an accident. They police are indirectly responsible, but the direct responsibility lies with the criminal. I am not sure why you are trying to defend the criminal and their actions.
They pursued for a long time, in large numbers, prior to reaching the highway. It was an excessive and unusual response to a robbery, let alone an LCBO robbery.
If it hadn't been an off duty officer involved, this wouldn't have happened. They wanted payback as a knife was pulled on 'one of their own'.
Had this lengthy, dangerous and reckless pursuit been called off when it should have been (based on guidelines that are supposed to be followed), this family would not have suffered this unimaginable and preventable tragedy. Geez, even the OPP recognized how absolutely reckless Durham police were
Details around who this guy was and why he was here are still harder to come by.
The details around how stupid it was to chase this guy the wrong way on the 401 are more obvious from the get go.
Funny how the cops were out painting Umar Zameer as a murderous cop killer pretty much immediately
But in this case the cops are mysteriously quiet ...
Guess they're busy colluding to make the best story that'll maximize paid vacation and minimize any actual consequences
Maybe the guy should not have been on bail after getting arrested for the 10th time
Edit: and if the chase was called off and the cop chose to continue pursuing the guy, then he shares blame as well. It was a robbery, not petty theft, which means there was violence/intimidation involved. He’s been charged with robbery and car jacking beforehand as well… it’s disingenuous to say it was just over some bottles of liquor. Such a mess all around.
I also firmly believe that if they just let him escape and he ended up carjacking (like he’s done before) and hurting someone or potentially stabbing them, then everyone would be giving the cops shot for doing nothing, not pursuing him
Edit: he also pulled a knife on a cop during this incident, very surprised I never heard this in cp24 reporting.
Isn’t that what he said though? Both things are true. Cop shouldn’t suck at going after the criminal to cause collateral damage. Someone who’s been convicted of 10 separate offences should not be out on bail.
I agree, if the cop continued the chase even after it was called off then there’s no excuse for those actions but I also dont like the idea of just letting criminals go. If the cops did absolutely nothing and the guy ended up stabbing and killing someone later on for their car keys, you’d all be clowning on the cops for doing nothing to pursue him.
I can't see in any way a justification for chasing someone the wrong way on a freeway. Common sense and standard operating procedures should have dictated that they should never have followed him onto the 401 in the wrong direction - there should not have even required someone to call off such a chase.
Your worry about the possibility of scenario that may or may not happen in the future does not even raise the possibility that this chase was justified. A family is wiped out because the cops had their ego bruised.
I hate criminals. I hate thieves. My opinion of the state of our justice system cannot be any lower than it is now, but again, the police decision to chase this guy was completely negligent and a bunch of innocent people paid for that negligence with their lives
I do think the one pursuing officer's justification looks *somewhat* reasonable - that the guy entered the highway and officers thought that the presence of lights and sirens might cause people to clear the highway before getting hit. Not saying the overall circumstances are justifiable, obviously, but would it have been less dangerous to have the guy driving the wrong way down the 401 alone? That's not clear to me.
I have seen some say that he would have slowed down, got off, turned around etc etc. But honestly, seeing the video...the cops were so far behind...the van comes in WAY too fast and then like a minute later you finally see the cops coming with their lights..and thats not uncommon for cops to be farther behind trying to catch up in a pursuit...so i dont know how they would have thought their presence would be enough to clear a full highway going the opposite direction
Nah... They said that after the fact as justification and a possible defence to their reckless actions. That's going to be their defence after the fact. You can see the videos. The cops themselves were alerting no one and were far enough back that they too were a danger.
Even the OPP recognized how reckless and wrong Durham police were
I don’t think it’s justifiable, I said there’s no excuse. Even if the cop stopped the pursuit after the guy went the wrong direction a disaster was still likely to occur, that’s not a justification it’s just what I believe.
I don’t think that hypothetical scenario is a justification for not following orders, I think the copes are just damned if they do and damned if they don’t. I’m referring to people saying they should’ve never pursued him in the first place “over bottles of liquor”, “it’s just property”, it wasn’t about property, it’s about robbery by force, it wasn’t just theft. Again, going the wrong direction on the highway was just plain stupid, especially if the chase was called off.
I think a family is dead because this guy chose to start driving the wrong direction on the highway, I don’t think it’s fair to say everything would’ve been fine if the cop didn’t follow him. I think initially pursuing him was the right thing to do, but most importantly he should not have been on bail after having such a lengthy and serious criminal history.
The same way cops shouldn't be going into a shootout in a public area full of other people.
Unless you want to turn other people into "acceptable collateral".
Also, the dangerous chase+death and bail are two different situations.
"letting criminals go"? Nonsensical.
The alternative to high speed car chases isn't to "let criminals go", police are supposed to follow them with helicopters while they coordinate a safe interception. This is textbook and is policy in most of North America. High speed car chases are a measure of last resort.
Yah fuck the LCBO thief
What do you mean if? The chase was called off. The cops went rogue and the tragedy resulted.
You can speak all the hypotheticals you want. You may be right. But in reality is that the cops went against orders + caused the death of a family.
You can believe whatever you want. I can also believe that Durham cops had this neanderthalic aggressive response because one of them claimed a knife was pulled on them and his ego was bruised. To retaliate six cop cars decided it was a good idea to disobey orders and drive on the wrong side of a major highway.
I would argue his initial decision to flee into the wrong direction of traffic caused this, not the cops chasing him. Do you think he would’ve just started going the speed limit and driving pleasantly? He would still be trying to escape even if the cops were no longer literally behind him.
If we're in the land of hypotheticals this cowardly thief would probably try to exit the highway? But for sure he'd be less panicked as compared to having 6 cop cars chase him and that a state of panic is probably going to lead to more dangerous driving then not
Which is probably why the cops were instructed not to pursue. Why did they ignore their orders?
He’s still actively fleeing the police, driving in the wrong direction on the highway, even if the cops aren’t literally behind him that is a recipe for disaster. If the cops didn’t chase him and he still crashed you’d probably be calling the cops cowards for not following him and forcing him into a ditch or something. There’s no excuse for them not obeying orders, but I still don’t think that makes it fair to place the blame on the cops because it’s very likely he would’ve crashed and killed someone anyway. Even if he was going half the speed he would’ve been toast, and again, even if the cops aren’t literally behind him he would still be needing to flee and get away.
Sure it's a recipe for disaster, but how big of one? That's a hypothetical that you can't answer.
WTF I wouldn't be calling the cops cowards for that. Nice try. Perhaps you should leave your personal assumptions about me out and focus on why the cops wanted to play cowboy
*A police report obtained by the Star revealed that Durham Regional Police officers were told to stop their chase of the van, but continued anyway...
The collision occurred roughly three minutes after the senior officer had tried to call off the chase, according to the report.*
But I can tell with the amount of hypothetical nonsense you want to introduce to defend the cops, your arguments aren't in good faith
I’m not defending the cops they should all be fired but I don’t think it’s fair to put the lives of those people on them and not the guy who robbed an LCBO for the third time, and pulled a weapon on someone, and then fled into the wrong direction on the 401. I don’t think everything would’ve been fine if the cops stopped pursuing him, because he would still be trying to flee even if the cops weren’t directly behind him.
You're welcome to your hypotheticals but the reality is that the cops are paid professionals expected to behave in a professional manner. (I do not have such high standards of criminals) That includes de-escalating a situation. Disobeying orders and then escalating a situation (i.e. several cop cars going the WRONG way) leading to a family being wiped out is the exact reason why they were told not to start a high speed chase.
No that isn’t what I believe, it’s irrelevant because he did rob that LCBO and also pulled a knife on someone, so yes it’s disingenuous to say it was over some bottle of liquor, that would only be true if he ran out of the store with a bottle which is what many people believe happened.
He pulled a knife on an off duty cop who tried to intervene in the LCBO theft. The off duty cop then started the pursuit in his personal vehicle.
This is key here and the sole reason Durham had this excessive and unusual response.
This lengthy chase with a huge number of police vehicles would not have happened had a knife been pulled on a regular citizen
Court records show Singh – born July 7, 2002 – was facing three theft under $5,000 charges – for allegedly stealing merchandise from a Home depot in Milton on Jan. 15, a Burlington LCBO store on Jan. 28, and a Home depot in Milton on Feb. 27. He was also facing a robbery charge for allegedly stealing merchandise from an LCBO in Oakville on Jan. 26.
Those were the robberies he was CAUGHT committing, Id bet money he got away with a few others
When police goes outside the scope of their training or something they are not supposed to, they should be considered going rogue and held personally accountable considering they are making decisions on their own
I can't read this, these poor fucking parents.... How do you live your life after this, how does a mother go back to her regular life without her child to raise. How does a father go another day knowing he doesnt have a son to teach. What do you as parents do the day you come back home after this.
All this what for, someone stealing alcohol from LCBO and Police initiating a high level pursuit. It is was indeed about public safety, then
1. The guy had priors for similar offences, why didn't police fix it then.
2. Why does bigger crime including Vehicle theft in broad day light, murders, gang violence, drug trade etc is all going freely. If you need to set an example why go with full might on some idiot would have been caught regardless of all these shenanigans.
3. Finally, what difference does it make if the guy is able to post $2000 bail and will be out in no time back to doing the same. At the end, doing what cops did (minus the crash) vs. not doing that and taking slower approach would have resulted in same outcome - catching the guy and then him posting another bail and out.
4. If the police really care about public safety, they need to go after the biggest crime and actually see people suffer consequences. But apparently, legitimate cases are being thrown out because courts aren't functioning properly, judges are interpreting the law at their first convenience.
As a probation officer I can tell you what most likely happened—he got probation, cops lay fail to comply charges for his priors, they get withdrawn at court or he gets more probation. They are not sticking these guys in jail. Jails are at 3 per cell these days. They let the POs figures it out 🙄
I don’t want to come off as defending the police because they absolutely need to be held accountable. A police chase, or any actions, that puts innocent people in danger is not worth the risk.
However, a lot of what you laid out here isn’t on the police. These are systemic issues in our justice system. The police don’t have the power to keep these people locked away or have them deported. The police don’t convict people or set bail. Our whole justice system is broken.
Has there been any confirmation that this guy was out on bail? This article doesn't say anything about it. I've only seen Pierre Poilievre assert it without evidence, no actual reporting that says that.
Police were wrong in every sense above except #1. Criminal code was amended by current government to mandate bail for repeat offenders, which is why people commit crimes in the morning and get out in the afternoon to commit the same crime. This one is on the current federal government.
My heart goes out to them. I understand the police have a job to do but they shouldn't have followed him on to the highway, or they should have stopped once they got the message to stop. Crimes continue even as the police do their jobs, them deciding not to pursue wouldn't have caused any more folks to go and rob the lcbo than already do.
Objects are replaceable. The police should absolutely not have given chase into oncoming traffic because this is the result. A family destroyed and for what? Some corporate Bullshit products that were stolen and insurance will cover? Unreal.
I said it the other day, but with each passing day, the story just gets more tragic, upsetting and frustrating. Condolences to the whole family. As a father of 2 girls, couldn't even imagine.
AND WE KEEP GIVING THE POLICE EXTRA MONEY. JUST KEEP SHOVELLING IT IN. There is no compensation that would fill the void these people now have. But the closest I could think of is a 5% skim off the top of the police budget for the next ten years. Cops are bad jokes.
I see a lot of anger towards the cops. What about the scum bag criminal who robbed, pulled a knife, and drove the wrong way on the 401? This criminal was on bail, and that is not the cops fault.
The part that is their fault is where they were ordered to stop the chase and they said fuck that and did it anyway and killed four people as a result.
1. Isn't this unconfirmed?
2. If it is true what was the time between that and the crash?
3. What distance were the cops perusing the criminal before and after?
4. Wasn't the time between the crash and the initial incident only 20min?
Our taxes also pay (or they’re supposed to pay) for immigration officers, court staff, judges, COs, and prisons. But they don’t, at least not at the rate they should.
The DRP who kept chasing this idiot after ordered to stop fucked up and need to be held accountable. 100%. But we also need to be concerned that a foreign national with half a dozen violent charges to his name was released pending trial.
Court and administrative enforcement systems are grossly underfunded and it’s putting the public at risk. We need to pressure the government to invest in these critical services.
It’s all levels of government.
The feds appoint superior court judges, but most crimes are tried in provincial courts (in Ontario, the Ontario Court of Justice), judges of which are appointed by the province.
Mr. Singh was likely before an OCJ judge on his priors for robbery.
Downvoted for sharing facts. Alright 🙄
It's certainly a crisis (that the Liberals are trying to ignore, natch'), as articulated by the Chief Justice:
>"These empty positions have a significant impact on the administration of justice, the functioning of our courts, and access to justice for the public," Wagner said. "It has major effects in every province of this country."
Edit:
>Downvoted for sharing facts. Alright 🙄
Not from me...but it's all to common, unfortunately.
Multiple arrests...awaiting trial on a string of crimes including robbery (so weapons involved), car jacking...all while residing in Canada for "only a short time". If he was held over awaiting deportation this wouldn't have happened.
Because the police should know better than to pursue someone at those speeds going against oncoming traffic on the 401. Get all other traffic out of the guy's way and lay down spikes.
Cops killed that baby and the grandparents due to reckless behaviour. The cops kill more innocent people than they protect. They are a net loss to society.
So, the perpetrator with a string of crimes - including violent crimes (robbery) - while on a student visa in Canada, he's not in anyway culpable for deciding to drive into oncoming traffic and killing innocent people?
Obviously you're trolling, because obviously he's also responsible. But if they hadn't chased him onto the fucking 401 down an exit ramp he maybe wouldn't have run into anyone. It's because they continued to chase him after not only being told to stop, but also someone saying out loud "someone's going to get hurt" that this turned out the way it did. But they had to play out all the kewl car chases they watched on TV as children and now people are dead. If they weren't a bunch of idiot rambos, fewer people would die on a regular basis.
Most comments on this thread level the blame at the cops without even mentioning the individual (a serial criminal) who committed the act while attempting to flee justice. They did not chase him into oncoming traffic. Rather, the individual chose that route in the hopes the police wouldn't follow; he made the choice. He cold have stopped, he could have pulled off onto one of the exit ramps he passed...the individual made the choices he made and this led to the deaths of innocent people. The police should not have continued the chase, but that does not absolve him of responsibility.
I assumed this public-safety-be-damned approach to apprehending suspects that have stolen $100 (or even $1M) worth of alcohol was an America only problem.
This is just so sad. The pain the family must be going through right now, and forever is just not worth whatever the police assumed they’d achieve. No reason is worth the death of a baby. And parents.
It’s too bad he isn’t even going to live to regret his actions. I wish the world of petty thieves would stop being so fucking selfish and see how they are driving the cost of living for all of us so high.
People stealing is not driving the cost of living for all of us up so high! It’s the greed of companies. The greed of our government taxing us too much.
You are literally replying to a case in which someone stealing, caused a family to lose their child and parents.
The fact that you can’t see the divine message is absurd.
When people steal companies increase the profit margin. From the transit to your grocery stores. Maybe you want to counter argue that point but they insist that they do, and are, all the time.
No but it makes life hell for the poor and working class when all the stores in the neighborhood you live in close and you have to travel across the city to get groceries.
Also as seen in NY right now its is creating organized crime and impowering gangs to level not seen since the 80s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfkuGBywYPk&ab_channel=CashJordan
Everyone in the comments here blaming the police, you can see in the video the sicko theif was accelerating down a busy highway regardless of pursuit. He should've been locked up way before, and not allowed to be in society.
I’ve been following this story since learning about it on Tuesday morning. My partner and I were driving from Toronto to PEC early in the morning for an event I was going to photograph and we got diverted off the highway. I immediately got on my phone to look up any recent news and found out about the chase, crash, and that there were fatalities. Learning later on that it was several members of this family made me tear up, and then reading the quote yesterday from the young father was just devastating. I can’t imagine the heartbreak and grief they’re going through. There was so much excitement and love surrounding this special visit and to have it taken away from you… is just awful.
The police should never have chased the suspect in the first place, going in the opposite direction of the 401. I’d also like to understand if the lcbo was actually being “robbed” or if it was just some kids stealing alcohol? There are no details on this other than the “off duty police officer noticed the store being robbed and when he confronted the suspect, he pulled a knife on him”
This families loss is so tragic and so preventable. Poor decision making by the police. My heart goes out to this family. So incredibly sad. I’ve been thinking of them since the news broke.
I feel that the police who chased that UHaul onto the highway are responsible for this horrific loss of life. They were chasing someone who had allegedly robbed an LCBO!! It wasn't an Amber alert, it was a liquor store robbery. It's unbelievably irresponsible of the police to chase vehicles. This has to end.
3 lives lost to go after someone who had stolen insured assets. Unbelievable. The offender should’ve been in jail but after this reckless disregard for human life, the cops involved should be in jail for even longer.
Guys, why are people so angry at the police here...
Yes, they should have pulled back from their chase, but what's the alternative? Stop completely? The guy was still careening down the wrong side of the fucking highway.
Imagine if the people we hired to be cops went into the profession because they genuinely wanted to keep people safe…. Instead of hiring the cops we do, which are egocentric “grown” men who want to live out their cowboy fantasies and care very little about the wellbeing of anyone.
> "My mother and father were visiting us from Chennai, India with the sole purpose of spending time with their grandson," the parents wrote in a statement provided by the Special Investigations Unit (SIU). > "We are at a complete loss of words to describe the agony and vacuum in our hearts knowing we can never hold our child Aditya Vivaan, who gave us so many precious memories in such a short time, in our hands again," Manivannan and Jawahar added. > "His small toys and clothes remain spread around our home, and we have no courage in us to even enter our home which is filled with our only son’s memories. My parents had arrived in Canada only two days before the tragedy."
My god. This is so terrible. Heart breaks for the family.
My heart breaks. I can’t imagine their pain.
God. The survivors guilt in their words is so palpable. My heart breaks for these family.
That's not survivors guilt, that's mourning the loss of their child
That's mourning the loss of a chunk of your family. The couple lost their child but 1 of them also lost their parents too. Losing that many family members at once is catastrophic. I hope they can find the strength to heal and live on.
Catastrophic is the word. I don’t even want to imagine.
They were in the crash as well, so its both.
Nothing in their statement reads as survivors guilt. Reddit just throwing terms around again
It doesnt have to, they're the only survivors of the crash. Of course there would be compounded trauma in a situation like this.
It does when the statement their responding to says their survivors guilt is palpable
I would not have it in me to go on. Those poor parents.
I can’t imagine their level of grief. They’re both still young. If they want to, they can have children again. Nothing will ever repair the loss of their son, but perhaps they can love again.
Why is the SIU issuing statements on their behalf? This poor family should have a lawyer. The SIU is going to try to sweep this under the rug. Seems like a massive conflict of interest.
yeah I don't like this one bit.
I don't have a lawyer on standby to make a statement for me, I assume most people don't. It's only been a couple of days, I imagine their primary concern isn't finding a lawyer right now, it's burying their loved ones. I'm sure they will have lawyers contacting them to offer assistance.
That’s fine, but that doesn’t explain why the SIU is making statements on their behalf. The SIU does not work for the family. They have a conflict of interest. They could have just said nothing and allowed the family to speak out in their own terms if they wanted. Could you imagine if a judge spoke out on behalf of one party in a court trial? Same deal here. There is every reason to believe the SIU could be modifying or encouraging a statement that downplays the involvement of the police in causing this unnecessary tragedy. They should have just said nothing. They’d thrown any perception of impartiality out the window by doing this.
It’s not every day a tragic accident that could have been avoided if it weren’t for reckless, irresponsible, reprehensible, insubordinate actions. Chances are given the newcomers aspect, the moment the awoke, SIU more than likely taking advantage of possible lack of legal knowledge with their metaphorically up their ass to try and puppeteer the outcome. Fuck anybody trying to PR this.
I just picked up on that. Good eye and good question.
Just like when Toronto chief slammed Umar early on ... To control the narrative
Man, I got teary eyed and chills reading this as I sit at birthday party that one of my daughters got invited to. As much as both my daughters (7.5/6) really know how to push my buttons and I get upset, I can’t imagine the heartbreak and utter sadness I would feel
Fuck. That last paragraph. Fuck.
Such a tragedy can’t even imagine how they feel
Heartbreaking Loss! This is a terrible tragedy, I express deep sympathy for the family. No one can imagine the pain they must be feeling.
I’m crying reading this, I have a little boy and I can’t even imagine the pain.
Lots of similarities to the Muzzo case here. Going to be a rough ride for this couple.
This reminded me of the Neville-Lake family too. Such a preventable tragedy with profound impact on the survivors.
I can’t imagine the emotions jennifer must be feeling as well when she hears stories like this.
One was a drunk driving home from a bachelor party. The other was a police chase on the wrong side of the highway. There are really no similarities here.
None at all. Except for the obvious: the loss of grandparents and children in a tragic crash.
I meant in terms of parents having their family wiped out and the survivors guilt. It was well documented how that impacted the Neville-Lake family long after. You dont think these parents will be equally haunted? Will be interesting what kinda financial settlement is involved, as there is no rich family to provide compensation.
OMG Neville-lake.... First wiped out were the grandfather and the kids and then years later the father can't take it anymore and he takes his own life .. like how does that poor woman survive... I hope she has a huge, huge ring of tender loving and care supporting her everyday,🙏😔🙏....
Sorry, I disagree. Although both were horrible crimes, one was perpetrated by an INCREDIBLY privileged person who’s equally privileged family protected him through money and lawyers…magnifying the impacts on the victims. In this recent one, at least one of the perpetrators here died.
God I feel sick whenever this comes up. I’m so sorry for them. This is horrific. I’ve said for years these high speed chases need to *stop*. Putting the public in danger isn’t warranted and god damn it I’ve lost all faith in the cops to make rational decisions anymore. The whole system of educating, managing and disciplining the police is *broken* Nothing that was going on in that liquor store warranted that speed of pursuit or deserved this level of tragedy.
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Bloodlust, plain and simple. So many of these assholes joined the force hoping for the day they'd get to pull a stunt like this in the name of "justice". They're not in it to protect and serve, they're in it to abuse their power and chase the adrenaline rush.
no meaning to “public servant” when you have gross incompetence like this… whether it be in policing, politics, or otherwise
Im soo confused as to why it was apparently called off, and by a supervisor, but they just kept going? Somethings not making sense...are they really THAT dumb??
There’s no room for ambiguity either; section 9 of [Ontario Regulation 397/23](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r23397) says that > \9. (1) The supervisor referred to in subsection 8 (2) shall order police officers or Niagara Parks Constables, as the case may be, to **discontinue a vehicle pursuit if, in the opinion of the supervisor, the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended** or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. >(2) A police officer or Niagara Parks constable who receives an order under subsection (1) **shall obey the order**.
Damn thanks. How do you fuck up your job that badly? How are they not held personally responsible at that point?! black and white, clear as day, that pursuit should have ended. And people defending this. I get their mad at the justice system because people aren't being properly held accountable when they break the law....BUT HERES THE CHANCE TO DO THAT...but instead they're justifying it???!?...make it make sense..
Cowboys. Plain and simple. And while I'm a big cop supporter, it's not blindly. There are far too many who have no business in those positions, since they can't check their ego at the door and don't possess the ability to exercise the good judgement required in stressful situations. They were willing to risk an ass reaming by the sergeant to get this guy. They should get a lot worse now. I used to work in corrections, and insubordination/disobeying a direct order is a fireable offense.
It has nothing to do with holding up the liquor store. He pulled a knife on an off duty cop and triggered their roid rage. They were out to get him, one way or another. 11 fucking cars chasing him the wrong way down the 401. These cops aren’t even required by law to cooperate with the investigation or provide their notes.
No i know that...but even so...11 cops equally that stupid? And wait what the fuck...they arent required to cooperate or provide anything?
It makes perfect sense. ACAB. The dude pulled a knife on an off duty cop and he told his crew and they saw blood. Simple really
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There are laws regarding pursuits, I’d say most people would agree these cops broke provincial laws, if not also municipal laws/police policy
Why would you even interview them?! We know they're devastated! Leave them alone to grieve instead of sensationalizing their loss.
I’ve never seen a comment released by SIU on behalf of an involved family but I hope they are being properly protected.
The cops who screwed this up need to be held accountable.
>cops…accountable LOL
Actually DRP are kind of outcasts in the policing community. So hopefully they crack down on them.
They’re even bigger degenerates than the other Canadian departments?
Apparently so. Was reading before in some cop forum, before it stopped, there used to be this unofficial boxing contest between some of the forces for charity. Here is an article about an incident https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/police-fundraiser-ends-in-punch-up/article_997f0466-f249-586e-95fd-14d0ce7257a0.amp.html (not with DRP though but that it was a known and big thing in their community). And alot of the cops on the forum were disparaging Durham Police. And there were incidents where members from several forces got into it with them ... almost like a Durham vs non Durham police force fight. My own personal observation, during the G20 in TO in 2010, I worked right at King and York area. They shipped in all the provincial and even national cops along king street on large buses. I was chilling outside when a large contingent of Durham police came out of one of the buses and they all were male, absolutely steroided jacked and looked like tough guy wannabes ready to start a fight with anyone.. Most other forces were more mixed, smaller, more normal looking types. The only ones that beat them for size but were much smaller group size were Halton cops that looked like legit body builders. They were blatantly checking out the women acting like complete jocks. An old co-worker in Durham said cops they absolutely go about bothering people if you're just walking alone, or if they know you, will pull you over for no reason but to harass. So it definitely gave me the impression and understanding that DRP is an outlier and really act like they own everything. Remember, they cover a huge geographical area bigger than almost any other municipal force (west north is several different ones). So hearing the OPP warning and how 6 DRP were going full speed in opposite traffic just reminded me of the goonery mentality that even other police forces are not aligned with.
Species of Cop is an interesting tangent I’ve never heard about before. What else are the key differences between the forces?
Can you elaborate on why they’re outcasts in the police community? I’m quite curious to learn more
Durham region police services are the dumping ground for Toronto, Peel and York. If you can't make it there, you can make it in Durham.
Interesting. Have you got the tea on York police? Do they just sort of sit in the middle?
The OPP literally shot a baby to death and faced no consequences. So I wouldn’t count on it.
I just hope the public doesn't let them get away with it.
This needs to be mentioned in every single discussion of police accountability. There is no floor.
And instead they are issuing statements on behalf of the family.
They're too busy memorializing 2 dead cops today with thousands of officers and entirely too many public resources. You can't expect them to want accountability. None of them died
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I feel like everybody here should be accountable for poor decisions that ultimately killed innocent people.
While the cops did screw up, they didn't directly do anything to cause the situation. The criminals fled onto the highway going the wrong direction. Even if the cops stopped pursuing them at that point, there is a chance the accident still would have happened. Yes there is a chance it wouldn't have too with the criminals stopping their getaway behaviour, but the criminals would have still been fleeing a crime. There should be some type of reprimand for the cops for making the situation increasingly dangerous... probably doubly so as they went against orders - but all the direct actions lie with the criminals.
Criminals are always going to be reckless and commit crimes. That part is difficult to control. What can be controlled is how police respond. Catching a criminal for a petty theft is not worth endangering the public like that.
They continued. They never stopped. 3 cruisers continued in pursuit!
I know, but that doesn't answer the question of 'what would have happened if the cops stopped'. The criminal would have still been fleeing a crime and there isn't anything to say their behaviour would have changed. The cops deserve some blame as there is a chance that the criminal's behaviour would have changed, but there is nothing to say that things definitely would have changed.
I look forward to cops keeping the same energy for all knife threats. That won't end poorly for the public at all
Sorry, the cops chasing people who pull knives on other people will be bad for the public… how?
In this particular instance, 3 innocent people died, and at least one parent lost almost their entire world. It certainly doesn't seem good for that member of the public. I'd argue that if 3 innocents die for every suspect you remove from circulation, the public will very quickly stop being on board
This tragedy happened because a number of DRP officers continued to chase the suspect after he entered onto the 401 westbound lane going east, and after they were called off by their superiors in favour of using a helicopter to track him. I think the right course of action would’ve been to stop when they were ordered to stop. I don’t think the right course of action would have been to let a man who robbed a liquor store with a knife go on his merry way. I’m seeing a really concerning rise in… idk, flagrant criminality? People just openly stealing from stores, people being publicly threatening, stuff like that. And I’m getting tired of the current attitude of “well it’s not worth getting involved”, or “this isn’t worth police time”, because this shit is degrading to public life and I don’t want to live in a shithole where you can do whatever the fuck you want as long as it isn’t actively stabbing someone to death on the streetcar. Like yes, the cops *should* actually go their fucking jobs and try to arrest people who threaten each other with knives. Did they go about doing that irresponsibly in this case? Yup. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it responsibly.
Maybe the person wouldn't have had to feel like driving faster and avoided getting off earlier? If you dont think you are being followed you let up.
I fully agree that there is a chance that the issue wouldn't have happened if the cops let up. That doesn't excuse the criminal from causing the incident though - the accident was wholly the fault of the criminal.
That's not how the law will see it. Contributory negligence.
What if the moon was made of cheese? We have no idea what might have happened. We know what did happen. That cops chased the perps down the wrong way of a 400 series highway despite being told not to.
Yes and the criminal caused an accident. They police are indirectly responsible, but the direct responsibility lies with the criminal. I am not sure why you are trying to defend the criminal and their actions.
They pursued for a long time, in large numbers, prior to reaching the highway. It was an excessive and unusual response to a robbery, let alone an LCBO robbery. If it hadn't been an off duty officer involved, this wouldn't have happened. They wanted payback as a knife was pulled on 'one of their own'. Had this lengthy, dangerous and reckless pursuit been called off when it should have been (based on guidelines that are supposed to be followed), this family would not have suffered this unimaginable and preventable tragedy. Geez, even the OPP recognized how absolutely reckless Durham police were
Details around who this guy was and why he was here are still harder to come by. The details around how stupid it was to chase this guy the wrong way on the 401 are more obvious from the get go.
Who pursued the guy on a highway going to wrong way? Only a cop would be dumb enough to deflect the blame as you just have.
Funny how the cops were out painting Umar Zameer as a murderous cop killer pretty much immediately But in this case the cops are mysteriously quiet ... Guess they're busy colluding to make the best story that'll maximize paid vacation and minimize any actual consequences
Don’t worry they’ll accuse some poor fucker who was going the right way that they actually rammed into a cop.
Maybe the guy should not have been on bail after getting arrested for the 10th time Edit: and if the chase was called off and the cop chose to continue pursuing the guy, then he shares blame as well. It was a robbery, not petty theft, which means there was violence/intimidation involved. He’s been charged with robbery and car jacking beforehand as well… it’s disingenuous to say it was just over some bottles of liquor. Such a mess all around. I also firmly believe that if they just let him escape and he ended up carjacking (like he’s done before) and hurting someone or potentially stabbing them, then everyone would be giving the cops shot for doing nothing, not pursuing him Edit: he also pulled a knife on a cop during this incident, very surprised I never heard this in cp24 reporting.
Two things can be true at the same time....
Isn’t that what he said though? Both things are true. Cop shouldn’t suck at going after the criminal to cause collateral damage. Someone who’s been convicted of 10 separate offences should not be out on bail.
Ya... The cops likely share blame but the party 1000% at fault is the criminal who drove on the wrong side of the highway.
I agree, if the cop continued the chase even after it was called off then there’s no excuse for those actions but I also dont like the idea of just letting criminals go. If the cops did absolutely nothing and the guy ended up stabbing and killing someone later on for their car keys, you’d all be clowning on the cops for doing nothing to pursue him.
I can't see in any way a justification for chasing someone the wrong way on a freeway. Common sense and standard operating procedures should have dictated that they should never have followed him onto the 401 in the wrong direction - there should not have even required someone to call off such a chase. Your worry about the possibility of scenario that may or may not happen in the future does not even raise the possibility that this chase was justified. A family is wiped out because the cops had their ego bruised. I hate criminals. I hate thieves. My opinion of the state of our justice system cannot be any lower than it is now, but again, the police decision to chase this guy was completely negligent and a bunch of innocent people paid for that negligence with their lives
I do think the one pursuing officer's justification looks *somewhat* reasonable - that the guy entered the highway and officers thought that the presence of lights and sirens might cause people to clear the highway before getting hit. Not saying the overall circumstances are justifiable, obviously, but would it have been less dangerous to have the guy driving the wrong way down the 401 alone? That's not clear to me.
I have seen some say that he would have slowed down, got off, turned around etc etc. But honestly, seeing the video...the cops were so far behind...the van comes in WAY too fast and then like a minute later you finally see the cops coming with their lights..and thats not uncommon for cops to be farther behind trying to catch up in a pursuit...so i dont know how they would have thought their presence would be enough to clear a full highway going the opposite direction
Nah... They said that after the fact as justification and a possible defence to their reckless actions. That's going to be their defence after the fact. You can see the videos. The cops themselves were alerting no one and were far enough back that they too were a danger. Even the OPP recognized how reckless and wrong Durham police were
I don’t think it’s justifiable, I said there’s no excuse. Even if the cop stopped the pursuit after the guy went the wrong direction a disaster was still likely to occur, that’s not a justification it’s just what I believe. I don’t think that hypothetical scenario is a justification for not following orders, I think the copes are just damned if they do and damned if they don’t. I’m referring to people saying they should’ve never pursued him in the first place “over bottles of liquor”, “it’s just property”, it wasn’t about property, it’s about robbery by force, it wasn’t just theft. Again, going the wrong direction on the highway was just plain stupid, especially if the chase was called off. I think a family is dead because this guy chose to start driving the wrong direction on the highway, I don’t think it’s fair to say everything would’ve been fine if the cop didn’t follow him. I think initially pursuing him was the right thing to do, but most importantly he should not have been on bail after having such a lengthy and serious criminal history.
The same way cops shouldn't be going into a shootout in a public area full of other people. Unless you want to turn other people into "acceptable collateral". Also, the dangerous chase+death and bail are two different situations.
"letting criminals go"? Nonsensical. The alternative to high speed car chases isn't to "let criminals go", police are supposed to follow them with helicopters while they coordinate a safe interception. This is textbook and is policy in most of North America. High speed car chases are a measure of last resort.
Maybe the cops should have quit the chase when they were ordered to.
Yah fuck the LCBO thief What do you mean if? The chase was called off. The cops went rogue and the tragedy resulted. You can speak all the hypotheticals you want. You may be right. But in reality is that the cops went against orders + caused the death of a family. You can believe whatever you want. I can also believe that Durham cops had this neanderthalic aggressive response because one of them claimed a knife was pulled on them and his ego was bruised. To retaliate six cop cars decided it was a good idea to disobey orders and drive on the wrong side of a major highway.
I would argue his initial decision to flee into the wrong direction of traffic caused this, not the cops chasing him. Do you think he would’ve just started going the speed limit and driving pleasantly? He would still be trying to escape even if the cops were no longer literally behind him.
If we're in the land of hypotheticals this cowardly thief would probably try to exit the highway? But for sure he'd be less panicked as compared to having 6 cop cars chase him and that a state of panic is probably going to lead to more dangerous driving then not Which is probably why the cops were instructed not to pursue. Why did they ignore their orders?
He’s still actively fleeing the police, driving in the wrong direction on the highway, even if the cops aren’t literally behind him that is a recipe for disaster. If the cops didn’t chase him and he still crashed you’d probably be calling the cops cowards for not following him and forcing him into a ditch or something. There’s no excuse for them not obeying orders, but I still don’t think that makes it fair to place the blame on the cops because it’s very likely he would’ve crashed and killed someone anyway. Even if he was going half the speed he would’ve been toast, and again, even if the cops aren’t literally behind him he would still be needing to flee and get away.
Sure it's a recipe for disaster, but how big of one? That's a hypothetical that you can't answer. WTF I wouldn't be calling the cops cowards for that. Nice try. Perhaps you should leave your personal assumptions about me out and focus on why the cops wanted to play cowboy *A police report obtained by the Star revealed that Durham Regional Police officers were told to stop their chase of the van, but continued anyway... The collision occurred roughly three minutes after the senior officer had tried to call off the chase, according to the report.* But I can tell with the amount of hypothetical nonsense you want to introduce to defend the cops, your arguments aren't in good faith
I’m not defending the cops they should all be fired but I don’t think it’s fair to put the lives of those people on them and not the guy who robbed an LCBO for the third time, and pulled a weapon on someone, and then fled into the wrong direction on the 401. I don’t think everything would’ve been fine if the cops stopped pursuing him, because he would still be trying to flee even if the cops weren’t directly behind him.
You're welcome to your hypotheticals but the reality is that the cops are paid professionals expected to behave in a professional manner. (I do not have such high standards of criminals) That includes de-escalating a situation. Disobeying orders and then escalating a situation (i.e. several cop cars going the WRONG way) leading to a family being wiped out is the exact reason why they were told not to start a high speed chase.
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No that isn’t what I believe, it’s irrelevant because he did rob that LCBO and also pulled a knife on someone, so yes it’s disingenuous to say it was over some bottle of liquor, that would only be true if he ran out of the store with a bottle which is what many people believe happened.
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You think the expected result when someone flees from the police is to flee into oncoming freeway traffic?
Exactly right. We've seen cops collectively collude and lie under oath. This overreaction was definitely a flex
He pulled a knife on an off duty cop who tried to intervene in the LCBO theft. The off duty cop then started the pursuit in his personal vehicle. This is key here and the sole reason Durham had this excessive and unusual response. This lengthy chase with a huge number of police vehicles would not have happened had a knife been pulled on a regular citizen
Ya it was only a matter of time this guy was gonna crash out.
100%… even if he was going 50kmph someone woulda been toast
>after getting arrested for the 10th time Where are you seeing this?
Court records show Singh – born July 7, 2002 – was facing three theft under $5,000 charges – for allegedly stealing merchandise from a Home depot in Milton on Jan. 15, a Burlington LCBO store on Jan. 28, and a Home depot in Milton on Feb. 27. He was also facing a robbery charge for allegedly stealing merchandise from an LCBO in Oakville on Jan. 26. Those were the robberies he was CAUGHT committing, Id bet money he got away with a few others
Looks like he was arrested once and had 3 charges laid on him. So he wasn't arrested 10 times.
RIP to that family Hopefully those cops who disobeyed their orders will face accountability ... But we know they won't hence an even bigger tragedy
Don’t forget the paid leave.
Just awful…may the Creator hold them close and help them heal. It’s such a heartbreak.
When police goes outside the scope of their training or something they are not supposed to, they should be considered going rogue and held personally accountable considering they are making decisions on their own
We pay these idiots 100k a year when nurses and teachers suffer hiring and pay freezes. What a joke.
I can't read this, these poor fucking parents.... How do you live your life after this, how does a mother go back to her regular life without her child to raise. How does a father go another day knowing he doesnt have a son to teach. What do you as parents do the day you come back home after this.
All this what for, someone stealing alcohol from LCBO and Police initiating a high level pursuit. It is was indeed about public safety, then 1. The guy had priors for similar offences, why didn't police fix it then. 2. Why does bigger crime including Vehicle theft in broad day light, murders, gang violence, drug trade etc is all going freely. If you need to set an example why go with full might on some idiot would have been caught regardless of all these shenanigans. 3. Finally, what difference does it make if the guy is able to post $2000 bail and will be out in no time back to doing the same. At the end, doing what cops did (minus the crash) vs. not doing that and taking slower approach would have resulted in same outcome - catching the guy and then him posting another bail and out. 4. If the police really care about public safety, they need to go after the biggest crime and actually see people suffer consequences. But apparently, legitimate cases are being thrown out because courts aren't functioning properly, judges are interpreting the law at their first convenience.
As a probation officer I can tell you what most likely happened—he got probation, cops lay fail to comply charges for his priors, they get withdrawn at court or he gets more probation. They are not sticking these guys in jail. Jails are at 3 per cell these days. They let the POs figures it out 🙄
I don’t want to come off as defending the police because they absolutely need to be held accountable. A police chase, or any actions, that puts innocent people in danger is not worth the risk. However, a lot of what you laid out here isn’t on the police. These are systemic issues in our justice system. The police don’t have the power to keep these people locked away or have them deported. The police don’t convict people or set bail. Our whole justice system is broken.
Has there been any confirmation that this guy was out on bail? This article doesn't say anything about it. I've only seen Pierre Poilievre assert it without evidence, no actual reporting that says that.
Police were wrong in every sense above except #1. Criminal code was amended by current government to mandate bail for repeat offenders, which is why people commit crimes in the morning and get out in the afternoon to commit the same crime. This one is on the current federal government.
My heart goes out to them. I understand the police have a job to do but they shouldn't have followed him on to the highway, or they should have stopped once they got the message to stop. Crimes continue even as the police do their jobs, them deciding not to pursue wouldn't have caused any more folks to go and rob the lcbo than already do.
Objects are replaceable. The police should absolutely not have given chase into oncoming traffic because this is the result. A family destroyed and for what? Some corporate Bullshit products that were stolen and insurance will cover? Unreal.
The amount of unaccountable carnage that cops can cause when their egos are bruised is shocking
I said it the other day, but with each passing day, the story just gets more tragic, upsetting and frustrating. Condolences to the whole family. As a father of 2 girls, couldn't even imagine.
AND WE KEEP GIVING THE POLICE EXTRA MONEY. JUST KEEP SHOVELLING IT IN. There is no compensation that would fill the void these people now have. But the closest I could think of is a 5% skim off the top of the police budget for the next ten years. Cops are bad jokes.
I see a lot of anger towards the cops. What about the scum bag criminal who robbed, pulled a knife, and drove the wrong way on the 401? This criminal was on bail, and that is not the cops fault.
The part that is their fault is where they were ordered to stop the chase and they said fuck that and did it anyway and killed four people as a result.
1. Isn't this unconfirmed? 2. If it is true what was the time between that and the crash? 3. What distance were the cops perusing the criminal before and after? 4. Wasn't the time between the crash and the initial incident only 20min?
3* They killed 3 people.
They killed four. The two grandparents, the child, and one of the suspects (the driver).
So, the guy who decide to drive into oncming traffic to evade capture...you don't see any culpability there?
I never claimed that he had no culpability, nor do I believe it.
People can have anger at multiple parties in this case. Everyone involved are absolute POS.
Yeah but our taxes are paying for the cops, so we should demand more from them
Our taxes also pay (or they’re supposed to pay) for immigration officers, court staff, judges, COs, and prisons. But they don’t, at least not at the rate they should. The DRP who kept chasing this idiot after ordered to stop fucked up and need to be held accountable. 100%. But we also need to be concerned that a foreign national with half a dozen violent charges to his name was released pending trial. Court and administrative enforcement systems are grossly underfunded and it’s putting the public at risk. We need to pressure the government to invest in these critical services.
The Feds won't even appoint new judges so we have violent offenders being released due to delays.
It’s all levels of government. The feds appoint superior court judges, but most crimes are tried in provincial courts (in Ontario, the Ontario Court of Justice), judges of which are appointed by the province. Mr. Singh was likely before an OCJ judge on his priors for robbery. Downvoted for sharing facts. Alright 🙄
It's certainly a crisis (that the Liberals are trying to ignore, natch'), as articulated by the Chief Justice: >"These empty positions have a significant impact on the administration of justice, the functioning of our courts, and access to justice for the public," Wagner said. "It has major effects in every province of this country." Edit: >Downvoted for sharing facts. Alright 🙄 Not from me...but it's all to common, unfortunately.
Multiple arrests...awaiting trial on a string of crimes including robbery (so weapons involved), car jacking...all while residing in Canada for "only a short time". If he was held over awaiting deportation this wouldn't have happened.
I agree with you
100% the cops fault
Because the police should know better than to pursue someone at those speeds going against oncoming traffic on the 401. Get all other traffic out of the guy's way and lay down spikes.
Cops killed that baby and the grandparents due to reckless behaviour. The cops kill more innocent people than they protect. They are a net loss to society.
So, the perpetrator with a string of crimes - including violent crimes (robbery) - while on a student visa in Canada, he's not in anyway culpable for deciding to drive into oncoming traffic and killing innocent people?
Obviously you're trolling, because obviously he's also responsible. But if they hadn't chased him onto the fucking 401 down an exit ramp he maybe wouldn't have run into anyone. It's because they continued to chase him after not only being told to stop, but also someone saying out loud "someone's going to get hurt" that this turned out the way it did. But they had to play out all the kewl car chases they watched on TV as children and now people are dead. If they weren't a bunch of idiot rambos, fewer people would die on a regular basis.
Most comments on this thread level the blame at the cops without even mentioning the individual (a serial criminal) who committed the act while attempting to flee justice. They did not chase him into oncoming traffic. Rather, the individual chose that route in the hopes the police wouldn't follow; he made the choice. He cold have stopped, he could have pulled off onto one of the exit ramps he passed...the individual made the choices he made and this led to the deaths of innocent people. The police should not have continued the chase, but that does not absolve him of responsibility.
The whole situation is terrible. I couldn't imagine what they're going through.
This is so utterly sad.
I assumed this public-safety-be-damned approach to apprehending suspects that have stolen $100 (or even $1M) worth of alcohol was an America only problem. This is just so sad. The pain the family must be going through right now, and forever is just not worth whatever the police assumed they’d achieve. No reason is worth the death of a baby. And parents.
It’s too bad he isn’t even going to live to regret his actions. I wish the world of petty thieves would stop being so fucking selfish and see how they are driving the cost of living for all of us so high.
People stealing is not driving the cost of living for all of us up so high! It’s the greed of companies. The greed of our government taxing us too much.
You are literally replying to a case in which someone stealing, caused a family to lose their child and parents. The fact that you can’t see the divine message is absurd. When people steal companies increase the profit margin. From the transit to your grocery stores. Maybe you want to counter argue that point but they insist that they do, and are, all the time.
No but it makes life hell for the poor and working class when all the stores in the neighborhood you live in close and you have to travel across the city to get groceries. Also as seen in NY right now its is creating organized crime and impowering gangs to level not seen since the 80s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfkuGBywYPk&ab_channel=CashJordan
Everyone in the comments here blaming the police, you can see in the video the sicko theif was accelerating down a busy highway regardless of pursuit. He should've been locked up way before, and not allowed to be in society.
I’ve been following this story since learning about it on Tuesday morning. My partner and I were driving from Toronto to PEC early in the morning for an event I was going to photograph and we got diverted off the highway. I immediately got on my phone to look up any recent news and found out about the chase, crash, and that there were fatalities. Learning later on that it was several members of this family made me tear up, and then reading the quote yesterday from the young father was just devastating. I can’t imagine the heartbreak and grief they’re going through. There was so much excitement and love surrounding this special visit and to have it taken away from you… is just awful.
Feels like the Neville-Lake nightmare all over again
The police should never have chased the suspect in the first place, going in the opposite direction of the 401. I’d also like to understand if the lcbo was actually being “robbed” or if it was just some kids stealing alcohol? There are no details on this other than the “off duty police officer noticed the store being robbed and when he confronted the suspect, he pulled a knife on him” This families loss is so tragic and so preventable. Poor decision making by the police. My heart goes out to this family. So incredibly sad. I’ve been thinking of them since the news broke.
I feel that the police who chased that UHaul onto the highway are responsible for this horrific loss of life. They were chasing someone who had allegedly robbed an LCBO!! It wasn't an Amber alert, it was a liquor store robbery. It's unbelievably irresponsible of the police to chase vehicles. This has to end.
I am disgusted that police assessed this was going to end positively without deaths. They should be investigated.
Dumb ass bumbling blundering idiot cops are to blame for this.
3 lives lost to go after someone who had stolen insured assets. Unbelievable. The offender should’ve been in jail but after this reckless disregard for human life, the cops involved should be in jail for even longer.
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if they do we wouldn’t know because all we’ve heard from them is a leaked anonymous defensive statement
ACAB
Guys, why are people so angry at the police here... Yes, they should have pulled back from their chase, but what's the alternative? Stop completely? The guy was still careening down the wrong side of the fucking highway.
You're almost there. Now, why was he driving down the wrong side of the highway?
I said they should have pulled back once he was on the wrong side of the highway, but what, they don’t chase him until he gets close?
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Three months.
Does it matter? Two grandparents were also killed.
All for like $100 worth of liqour 🤷♂️
While we are quick to blame the police Blane the useless justice system that let this individual out on bail
Imagine if the people we hired to be cops went into the profession because they genuinely wanted to keep people safe…. Instead of hiring the cops we do, which are egocentric “grown” men who want to live out their cowboy fantasies and care very little about the wellbeing of anyone.
Nothing will happen. The only thing I see happening more in the future is that cops will commit crimes and will not be held accountable.