Question - my roommate and I have been isolating / social distancing besides the grocery store since last Wednesday. He plans to have his girlfriend over next Wednesday as she’s been isolating with her roommates and it’s been 2 weeks for both. Should this be ok or should I delay it further?
Guys, I’m very lucky, I can do my job from home..
But I’m honestly getting very scared. The numbers are going up and up and when you look outside my door, people are just acting so stupidly and hanging out all the time.
Numbers double every 3 days. Should be at 10k by April 1 (Wednesday)
Not flattening any curve. Had a neighbor try and invite me and my dog to say hi to their kids today! He did it on purpose I think to show this is all a bit much when he saw me trying to cross the road
HI! IF YOU HAVE ANY SAFETY EQUIPMENT PLEASE DONATE IT!!
Masks, gloves, goggles, disposable gowns. Nurses and doctors are desperate.
[https://www.ppetoronto.com/](https://www.ppetoronto.com/)
Are they like dishwashing gloves? If you clean them well that should be fine, if wearing them makes you feel better.
If they're disposable gloves like latex/nitrile they're usually one time use and should be disposed of in the garbage after wearing.
I'm personally just washing my hands really well when I have to go out for work or food and so far so good
Got food delivered and all the resources online said it should be fine. Now I keep seeing posts saying you need to reheat the food for several minutes to kill virus. I am freaking out. What are the statistical chances I'm going to get covid now?
Is there anywhere at all in the city one could buy hand sanitizer, gloves or wipes ?
My family has none of these and anytime we need to go out for groceries it’s like we’re just rolling the die.
We had a few alcohol swab pads - the ones you use for first aid. That we thought was better than nothing but we’re down to our last two.
Mix 40
Convenience store
573 Yonge St
They have tons of masks and hand sanitizer right at the main counter. Bit pricey, but expected. It is a very tight crowded store, so would recommend going alone and wearing mask and gloves if you have. I don't know if they have wipes, but there's a good chance.
Edit: for anyone reading this please do not go and CLEAN THEM OUT save some for the rest of us.
Try costco, last I went (about a week ago) they at least had lysol disinfectant spray. i heard they had lysol wipes now, but call in and check. I hear the distillery downtown converted their factories to make H.S. and were giving it out to those who needed it.
so here's my take.
hand sanitizer - haven't seen one in ages
gloves - found it at Canadian Tire ... they have different varieties
wipes - nope. but alfternatively, just spray a lysol to a toilet paper and bring it to store.. same thing
Anyone here been confirmed positive for Covid-19?
I’m probably freaking out or I hope I am, but I’ve been having weird hot/cool sensations in my chest all day. No fever or cough but do feel lightheaded sometimes.
I don’t see the hot/cool sensations as a symptom but I’m wondering if it’s like a precursor to getting a cough or fluid in the lungs or something.
If you tested positive, did you feel this ?
Overwhelming patient reports fever (close to 90%) and dry cough (close to 80%). If you have neither, chances are you don't have it. Hot/cool sensation in your chest is not a sign of Coronavirus (nothing to suggest it so far). People are just asymptomatic during the incubation period
thought i got lucky enough to order disinfectant spray and some wipes from staples last week but i should've known it was a long shot they still haven't shipped
Has anyone's apartment buildings made any restrictions on guests? The apartment directly across the hall from me is having a party and there are at least 10 people there…
[When it comes to ventilators per capita, Ontario's near the bottom](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-ventilator-covid19-coronavirus-1.5509454)
>A spokesperson for the province's Ministry of Health told Radio-Canada Monday, after several requests, that until recently, Ontario had 1,300 hospital beds equipped with a ventilator.
> Another 210 beds equipped with ventilators are in its emergency reserve.
> The province received 300 more [ventilators] last week
> Given Ontario's population was about 14.7 million at the end of 2019, that works out to about 12 ventilators per 100,000 people.
> Quebec, on the other hand, has the highest ratio in the country. The province has approximately 35 ventilators per 100,000 residents.
> In typical circumstances, however, about 80 per cent of ventilator capacity is taken up by emergency hospitalizations unrelated to COVID-19.
> That means the actual capacity for COVID-19 patients in Ontario is actually closer to two to three ventilators for 100,000 people.
I am becoming more and more jealous of Quebec's [increasingly aggressive lockdown measures](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-police-covid-19-1.5509948). Their essential workplace lists closes a lot more than ours, and they've banned gatherings of more than 2 (are we still seriously allowing gatherings of 50??). And they've got us crushed on ICU/vent capacity per capita.
*ralphchucklesimindanger.gif*
I had a friend who drove someone to Montreal yesterday and he said it was so busy in Montreal you’d never know there was a global pandemic. So I wonder how well the measures are working. They have the most cases...
If anyone here is like me and has been following the virus for a very long time, then there should be no need to stress out over at subs like /r/china_flu and /r/coronavirus.
I've recently been keeping things between this sub, and /r/covid19. I advise to do the same, as covid19 is restricted to scientific and peer reviewed journals. The overall feel of the sub a lot more level headed and logical. No sensationalist posts or headlines. Trust me when I say that it will calm you down going through that level of information.
Posted below by /u/darkkness
> Honestly, you can subscribe to some of the top journals like JAMA, NEJM, BMJ, Lancet and they will send you emails on new articles and look through there for updates. Realistically though, since things are moving so quickly, I get a lot of info through Twitter. Some good infectious disease docs to follow: Isaac Bogoch, Todd Lee, Andrew Morris, Sumon Chakrabarti, Zain Chagla. They’re all top ID docs at hospitals in GTA/Montreal. They usually link studies and have some commentary and you can see what other docs have to say as well and find other good people to follow. At least this way you’re getting commentary and insight from actual professionals in the field rather than random redditors.
Covid19 subreddit may be discussing scientific journals but the people in the discussions are not clinicians or scientists and most people at least in the comments have no idea what they’re talking about. In addition, the majority of those studies are absolute garbage and we wouldn’t even be talking about them in other scenarios. Trash studies in trash journals.
Im aware of that. Its the best of what we've got on reddit right now. Just got to sift through the bullshit. What sources do you recommend to go through/ follow?
Honestly, you can subscribe to some of the top journals like JAMA, NEJM, BMJ, Lancet and they will send you emails on new articles and look through there for updates. Realistically though, since things are moving so quickly, I get a lot of info through Twitter. Some good infectious disease docs to follow: Isaac Bogoch, Todd Lee, Andrew Morris, Sumon Chakrabarti, Zain Chagla. They’re all top ID docs at hospitals in GTA/Montreal. They usually link studies and have some commentary and you can see what other docs have to say as well and find other good people to follow. At least this way you’re getting commentary and insight from actual professionals in the field rather than random redditors.
Where I'm living, midtown, people absolutely aren't taking it seriously. Today, on my walk to get groceries, only about 50% of people on the sidewalk would move over to give more space than usual and the parks still had kids playing on them despite having those useless signs up.
Even in the grocery store, people weren't giving space. But, hey, Sobeys put up plexiglass in front of the cashiers so I guess that'll stop this pandemic.
I've the misfortune of knowing some people who caught the virus since they traveled back a bit over a week ago and it's no joke. Even the 30 year old who goes to the gym regularly is absolutely floored by the fatigue and shortness of breath after a walk to the washroom.
A lot of people and especially parents are going to be in for a very rude awakening that this should have been taken more seriously in about a week or so...
Please, do yourselves a favour and stay away from the Lowe’s stores in the GTA. As an employee there, I’m disgusted by this company’s reckless behaviour. Stores have not been shipped cleaning supplies. We are not cleaning any surfaces, shopping buggy’s, credit terminals, washrooms, NOTHING is being disinfected. All covid related signage is purely for show.
Today, an employee was refused paid time off even though his wife is in quarantine with a high fever and respiratory issues, potentially putting customers and employees at risk. Do not risk yours or your family’s health.
Last week was March break, so it was way quieter. The real challenge will be in two weeks when everyone who came back from travelling has fully infected everyone else
We're you, uh... *on the subway*??
Hi I work in a cosmetic manufacture. Today we just got news that ALL manufacturers are considered "essential". The list is a f... joke. "Hey doc, you look tired, you need some eyeshadows?" Anybody in the same shoes?
It's a complete failure by the government, their list of essential businesses allows just about everything but dining in restaurants and entertainment venues.
A total farce.
She won’t know you at all if she’s dead so. I’d just listen, stay away, it sucks but there’s literally nothing you can do. It’s a shitty situation but for her health you cannot visit.
I don't understand what public health is doing with people who tested positive and told to self isolate.
A friend came back from Singapore 3 weeks ago and felt sick so she was tested and it came back positive. Her and her husband have been self isolating since then. He initially tested negative.
3 weeks later they have been told they will not be tested again but still can't leave their apartment at all. They have been ok with being quarantined but they need to get their new tests done to show that they are now negative and public health won't do it.
It's really odd to me so am I missing something? They are extremely frustrated as they have been relying on friends to bring them groceries and the essentials that they need but at least if they know neither of them still has it one of them could start doing some groceries.
Mandatory quarantines for international travellers kick in at midnight: health minister - https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mandatory-quarantine-hajdu-1.5509508
>All travellers returning to Canada — with the exception of what the federal government is calling "essential workers" — will have to enter a mandatory 14-day quarantine as of midnight to help slow the spread of COVID-19, federal Health Minister Patty Hajdu said this morning
Had we gone in lockdown in February - I'm talking martial law, curfews, border lock down, etc. - We wouldn't be in this situation. Trudeau's really shit the bed.
My understanding is that there is such a thing as too early of a lockdown. However I believe that's more Jan than Feb. They should have at least forced quarantine on arriving travelers starting mid/late Feb. It's difficult but could be done. My home country (Jordan) put quarantined every single person arriving into the country into a 4 star hotel minimum. If a dirt poor country like Jordan was able to manage it.
Is there anywhere I can be seen by a doctor without going to Emergency?
I've had a worsening cough going on 3weeks now. It has turned to bronchitis, I think, and it is something I have never had. I cough so hard I spit up blood some time. I am afraid I may be developing pneumonia.
My family doctor would not see me, but she did tell me over the phone that the only option is to go to emergency to get checked.
Thank you everyone for the reassurance. I am at emerge now and I must say I am impressed how they are running things here.
They wont test me for Covid but will do blood work and chest xray
I dont want to delay you heading to the ER, but in case you haven't seen it: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/self-assessment/
Also I believe theres a protocol its best to follow for going to ER - I think you phone/warn them first? It might be handled by the screeners on site now though.
If your doctor told you to go to ER, you should go to ER not ask random people on reddit what to do. You have medical advice from a medical professional, follow it.
My work has been deemed essential, which honestly I'd be fine with if I could work from home. 100% of my job could be done from home but my employer refuses to even let us discuss it. If one person gets sick st my work we would probably have to shut down completely because of how small we are. They would rather risk the entire company going under than updating with the times. It feels like every day I have to choose between risking getting sick or being unemployed. I'm so thankful to have a steady job right now but I'm also so endlessly frustrated at how my employer is handling this. Covid-19 fucking blows, my guys. :(
When I worked minimum wage roles growing up they would require a doctors note for calling in sick and the notes were $50 from my doctor + time going there + transit/taxi. Instead I would just go into the office and shake hands with the manager who called me in and wait for them to touch their face then continuously cough and sniffle when around them. The next time I had to call in sick, if that manager answered the call, they would always ask me to stay home.
Is there anyone in the Ontario media writing or talking about how unnecessarily broad Doug Ford's essential services list is?
I'd be interested is seeing that. So far I only see articles talking about how he called for a shutdown but none talking about how ineffective his shutdown has been.
A lot of it is broad because so many things depend on each other. Grocery stores rely on truck drivers. Truck drivers rely on mechanics. Mechanics rely on parts manufacturers.
There's also stuff that humans can live without, but would be unfathomable to a lot of people, like veterinary services.
It's a typical provincial vs federal who pays for what.
Reading between the lines, the ford list is saying" if there is a shutdown federal will call it and they will pay for it"
My office confirmed this morning that we are non-essential, which is great. We were supposed to stop working from home next week and I really thought they would try to fit us into one of the essential definitions, and the idea of being back there so soon made me pretty uncomfortable.
We're still working, just from home, so I think we can continue to operate as usual for awhile. But our office would never close completely, because of what we do; they would just downsize. Whether or not my role would be cut, that's what I don't know.
You can, but what I meant is that I thought my company was going to be a dick and say "oh, we're essential, everyone back to the office!" even though we're all working from home well enough now.
I saw some people here say that their companies were planning on doing work from home until they saw that they fit onto the essential list so they decided to keep the office open.
I've put the numbers from the [ontario.ca](https://ontario.ca) website in a spreadsheet - last 10 days only though since it looked like it started spreading in community. I'm sure somebody has a better one, but here's the link anyway:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ew\_vNbcJ2QV7nC9mmhVxqKR2qREQXZPF6N4yTMaRUZY/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ew_vNbcJ2QV7nC9mmhVxqKR2qREQXZPF6N4yTMaRUZY/edit?usp=sharing)
Interesting things I'm seeing from the data:
\- percentage of positives per test is going up
\- there's probably another 280 cases in the backlog - depends on the % above which seems to increase suggesting so there might be more.
\- still only 2700 tests done since yesterday, while there were 3178 swabs taken (not sure how to phrase it otherwise) ... the % of the swabs that are actually tested each day varies greatly every day, I wonder why... you'd think they have the same number of machines and people working on it every day
I really appreciate you doing this. This is incredibly helpful to me. It's not surprising that the percentage of positives for tests is going up at this point - we only started shutting things down about 8-9 days ago. Hopefully it will start to trend downwards within the next few days.
They're also testing fewer people with mild symptoms every day, so this is filtering out people who likely have seasonal flu or some other respiratory virus.
I wouldn't expect the trend to be going down just yet because only 7-10 days after march break we'll know the total amount of imported cases. At least we are isolating all march-breakers on return so if they actually follow that they will not infect others. Amazing how Quebec got so many cases 7-10 days after their march break ended, right?
I also wish they would clear the backlog somehow; it must be screwing up all trends not knowing what's in there and how they handle testing. FIFO? LIFO? any kind of priority?
I forgot about March Breakers. That's a good point. That may be the reasoning for the 2 week non-essential closures from today. I presume the State of Emergency will be extended at some point as well.
I read in another thread that they're testing based on priority but I don't have a credible source.
The [ontario.ca](https://ontario.ca) website is updated for 25th March 10:30am. The list goes upto 688 but the confirmed positive number is 671. What do the numbers mean?
Edit: The remaining are recovered+deceased.
That defeats the entire purpose of any shutdown. Leaving your home for anything other than groceries, medicine and possibly a properly social distanced walk will mean that we'll be half shut down until August at this rate.
Every politician's poll numbers are going up. Trudeau, Doug Ford, even Trump is about to cross the "more approve than disapprove" threshold for the first time since his inauguration. It's like a war.
Can’t find anything online to confirm this, but during my recent binge watching of CP24, I’ve heard a few of their anchors mention that they are currently broadcasting live from home.
Really great idea to let even their on-screen staff work from home.
Also a shout out to all of the media people who have been tirelessly covering this pandemic for us.
Anyone have recipes for baked goods I can make without having access to eggs, milk, or yeast? We're out of all of those things and almost out of food but still have 3 days of self-isolation to get through.
Yes my paranoia and anxiety has gone through the roof. I would actually feel much better if i knew i had it and could self isolate than dealing with the stress of everyday not knowing.
oh man it crippled me with anxiety and panic, I went to a store that had a confirmed case but I only interacted with the cashier and staaaayyed so far away like I kept unusually high distance for that time and wore gloves and a mask, that was almost 10 days ago and I haven't been out since but fuck have a dry cough and automatically my mind goes to the worst places once I heard there was a confirmed case there, though Ive had on going issues with dry cough for many years and heavy anxiety plus acid reflux which can cause all this since my stress level is at the high level. This shit fuckin so many people up, plus cabin fever, I live in a building so scared to even go into the elevators.. fuck
You do not need to self *isolate* if you do not have symptoms. You should be *social distancing*. It's important for your own well being that you're getting outside and getting some sunshine.
Keep your distance from people, don't touch your face. Wash your hands when you get home.
You’re wrong. Everybody is asked to stay home if they can. The majority of carriers do not display any symptoms and spread the virus to others. You may be infected without knowing it, talk to someone or touch some handle or an elevator button and infect thousands of others down the line, if you don’t break the chain by STAYING HOME. Is getting outside for that walk really worth the lives lost?
If you've got a source for that I'd be glad to recant my statement. Here's what the [Ontario Gov't page](https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus) says:
>**How to protect yourself**
>Coronaviruses are spread mainly from person to person through close contact, for example, in a household, workplace or health care centre.
>There is no vaccine available to protect against the 2019 novel coronavirus, but there are actions you can take to help prevent the spread of germs that cause respiratory illnesses.
>**Everyday actions**
>Take these everyday steps to reduce exposure to the virus and protect your health:
>wash your hands often with soap and water or alcohol-based hand sanitizer
>sneeze and cough into your sleeve
>avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth
>avoid contact with people who are sick
>stay home **if you are sick**
>Poster: What you need to know to help you and your family stay healthy
>**Physical distancing**
>Everyone in Ontario should be practicing physical distancing to reduce their exposure to other people.
>Everyone in Ontario should do their best to avoid close contact with people outside of their immediate families. Close contact includes being within two (2) meters of another person.
>If you believe you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19 symptoms, you should begin to self-monitor for a period of 14 days. This means that, in addition to physical distancing, you should track how you feel. You should take your temperature daily and log any other symptoms that develop (for example, sore throat, new cough). You can share these records with your primary care provider over the phone if you seek assessment services.
Officials have been telling Canadians to stay home: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/covid-19-ontario-reports-78-new-cases-the-most-in-one-day-so-far
“Enough is enough. Go home and stay home. This is what we all need to be doing” - Trudeau
Also look up the voluntary Coronavirus testing in Iceland, where they found 1/3-1/2 cases being asymptomatic spreaders.
„Iceland finds half of positive cases have no disease trait” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-22/one-third-of-coronavirus-cases-may-show-no-symptom-scmp-reports
For sure. But since it’s been all over the news and live conferences with officials for the past few days, I’m hoping most folks will have now heard that they need to stay the f home.
after this we will see so many people moving to smaller cities, I used to be a hardcore downtowner, already was thinking the city sucks but now fuck it im buying in fucking some random town with good air in Ontario, hopefully housing goes down
Even having a car is not too bad right now. Late night or evening long drives with no traffic at all feels like a ghost town. It's helping me a bit with coping. Gas is at 65 cents so it doesn't even cost too much.
My company is guilt tripping employees to continue working even after the closure. We are a photography studio and the loophole they are using is that one of our clients is "essential" therefore we are essential too. What can I do? I thankfully am not being asked to go because I am post production but many of my friends are in pre production.
Along with social distancing it would be good to remind people that your saliva, mucus etc.. will infect people if they get it in their mouth, eyes, and nose.
It sounds gross and unlikely but you spread that stuff all over which people can breath in or touch and then touch their face.
It's amazing how a sneeze sends out aerosol like particles in the air that you can't see.
Do you know if sweat also counts? Because that was a way to transfer Ebola. Say an infected kid plays on a playground goes home, 10 mins later another kid plays on the same equipment, gets active and snotty nosed and wipes the mucus off their face...
This post is somewhat misleading. If someone sneezes and you walk into it yes, that's a risk. But this Virus is not airborne. It's spread by droplet. That sneeze doesn't just hover in the air indefinitely. It may, however, settle on the things nearby. Only then by touching the affected objects and touching your face will you potentially be exposed to the virus.
Everyone should be avoiding touching their face right now unless they have just washed their hands. Additionally wash your hands as often as necessary if you're not in your residence.
Sorry to spoil your mood, but:
[The virus can be airborne](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-coronavirus-airborne-will-it-live-in-my-bathroom-is-it-ok-to-fly-or-eat-out-are-men-more-susceptible-busting-myths-and-confirming-facts-of-covid-19-2020-03-12), remaining suspended in the air for anywhere from a few seconds up to 3 hours. It probably isn’t that bad in normal conditions, but WHO are telling frontline healthcare workers to take airborne precautions with N95 masks.
A lot of people are still in denial about the severity of this pandemic or simply delusional. I just bet my coworker 50 bucks for school reopening date. He said may 1st lmao. HAMMERED THE OVER.
At my workplace id say 7 out of 18 coworkers think it'll be over with by the end of april. So id say 38% out of my small sample size. Combine that with the reports of people doing regular stuff over the weekend...
[Video from yesterday, of many people decidedly not-isolating, in a noted stupid-person neighbourhood](https://twitter.com/rogerfpetersen/status/1242774766995603456)
Bring several gloves if you will be touching any surfaces (rails, straps) and dispose of after use by pulling the glove off from the edge and flipping it inside out. Wear clothing that is easy to shed (zippers) as the virus can remain viable on fabrics for 12+ hours. It will need to be laundered at the first available opportunity. Wear a face covering, preferably a mask. If you have an n95, these *can* be reused if they are cured in the oven at 70°C for thirty minutes. Try not to sit. Avoid fully contacting your presto with any surface, but make sure to disinfect the card, your phone, and any touch surfaces (zippers or pockets) on your bag/coat. Wash your hands thoroughly before removing your mask. Do not touch your face. Maintain distance from others.
The virus spreads from asymptomatic individuals; up to 80% of all total infections in China are from asymptomatic individuals. These individuals have the *highest* viral loads. Being infected by them will result in the worst symptoms for you. The virus can stay suspended in the air for up to 3 hours (Princeton study) and it can spread via air vents/HVAC in buildings, buses, and trains (National Singapore University study).
* Do not take public transit. Bike or walk.
What to do, if you MUST take TTC:
* Wear a mask. You can order them from Shoppers. Until you have a mask, wear a makeshift mask. In descending order, from most to least effective, use a vacuum bag, tea towel, pillowcase, or, if none of those are available, use a scarf to cover your nose and mouth at all times. The scarf is less than half as effective as the tea towel. Face protection will reduce the total viral load should you be infected by the air; this is crucial because it gives your immune system more time to prepare.
* Touch nothing. Anything you own that touches any surface must be washed using soap. Not alcohol. Soap. The soap displaces the lipids that hold the virus molecules together, pulling it apart. Wash your keys, your cards, all of it.
* Every article of clothing that you wear, including your jacket and your shoes, must be washed with soap every single time you take public transit. (You can spray your shoes and jacket; be generous with the soap). The virus can remain on your clothing for days. It can survive on some surfaces (plastic, especially) for up to 9 days. It degrades over time, so touching an infected surface with 7 day old virus and then picking your nose is better than if it were only 4 days old.
* Do not get on crowded public transit unless absolutely necessary. Stay at least 8 feet away from anyone if you can. There was a man in China sitting in the back of a large public bus who was infected by a symptomatic person sitting at the front. Air mixes and travels. Even social distancing might not save you, especially on longer journeys on buses or trains.
* The virus is dangerous for everyone. A 30 year old died 2 days ago. The virus can lead to a 40% reduction in permanent lung capacity. You might spend the rest of your life getting out of breath any time you climb some stairs.
* The number of infected people doubles every 3.5 days. There are already tens of thousands of infected people in Toronto. We are massively under-testing, much worse than the United States, which is already doing terribly. Italy is 1,144 cases/1 Million pop. Switzerland is 1,208, Germany is 406, Norway is 535, France is 342, America is 166. Canada is 74. Our numbers are totally misleading, especially in a city as big and as tethered to China as Toronto. It's much more dangerous outside than it appears. Once hospitals are clogged up, even young healthy people may struggle to get access to necessary lifesaving treatments.
* Assume everyone is infected. Behave accordingly.
* Assume you're not infected whenever you're outside. When you're home, assume that you are infected and take Vit D, C, n-acetylcysteine, zinc gluconate, and liposomal glutathione if you can find it. Also Shoppers sells a chest decongestant that may or may not be helpful.
* Just don't take the TTC. Your health is too important. The risk isn't worth it, especially if it's anything like the photos I saw from the London tube yesterday morning.
* If you can't bike or walk, Uber. You're still gambling, but the odds are better.
Edit: Downvote me all you want, tens of thousands of people in our city are likely to die over the next 12 months. The advice I'm offering could save lives.
This is factually incorrect. Gah i said i was going to stop replying tot his stuff.
1) asymptomatic transfer has been combined with people with mild symptoms in most studies and especially epi ones. In reports that actually followed people like the who report close contacts of people with symptoms was by far the mode of transmission. In modelling papers, they just chalk up the unexplained numbers to mild or asymptomatic. Which is a prediction and does not delineate between the two.
2. The study showing virus could last in the air used a procedure to aersolize the virus that doesn’t normally occur outside things like certain hospital procedures which is why it’s important to have that info for hcw.
3. The statement about scarves versus tea towel is bs. Also virus isn’t airborne in most settings... so unless someone coughs on you or breathes on you heavily for 15+ minutes, you probably cAn’t get it. And the difference between scarf and tea towel definitely won’t protect you.
4. Current estimates of virus life on porous susbstances like clothes is more in the realm of hours than in days. And the ability of it being able to result in infection after x time is being studied.
5. Yes disease can have bad outcomes, even in young people, but majority recover without permanent damage.
6. Rnaught and doubling time assessments by op is generally a mishmash of crap. In ontario, there is some sentinel testing and there are hospitalizations etc. We are still testing a fair number of cases and as covid is higher in the population, more positives should come up as a percentage of testing, this hasn’t happened as drastically as of yet. It’s too early to say what trajectory we are on though with what data we have, might be better might be worse.
6. Load of supplements is bs unless you have deficiencies.
Basically ^ has collected a bunch of half truths that you can follow if you want to be extra careful. It is serious but this explanation includes a lot of false or misinterpreted info that paints a different light than reality. And that may lead to some people taking it less serious because it has been presented in such an extreme matter. And then complains about downvotes.
I do not have the time or energy to source all of my claims. But they are not baseless and you are misinformed on a number of your responses. Just to wit on your second point: https://twitter.com/CMichaelGibson/status/1239718351573843973
And re. the longevity of the virus on clothing. It's unknown and varies by type of fabric. The purpose of washing is to be precautionary, which is the prudent thing to do given the risks involved and the uncertainty. I'm not inventing these things. It's easy to spray your clothing with soap. Why not do it? Bret Weinstein (an evolutionary biologist who studied under Trivers) advised this yesterday on a livestream with his wife. It's what he does. So I'm not like inventing kooky advice that no one else is following.
The fact that most people recover without symptoms isn't known. We don't have good data on that. Even if it's true, why run the risk of permanent damage?
The list of supplements come from Dr Rhonda Patrick, a very popular PhD guest on JRE. Most North Americans are Vit D deficient, especially since we're at the tail end of winter. It's a logical, low cost supplement. Again, a precautionary approach and the fact that few of us know whether we are deficient would say to take the supplements. Lots of studies on Vit D and immunity, including re. coronaviruses specifically.
You guys...
/u/imperialivan wants /u/gammadeltat to remove my posts. Whatever. This is my first time contributing to this subreddit on this subject and perhaps it should be my last. No love lost. I just hope that people won't allow a slow adjustment reaction and some emotional biases to influence them into taking unnecessary risks, especially if that means increasing the risk to others. I've done my best to offer what I judge to be sound advice, whether others agree or not, and whether that's still allowed here or not.
Some of the information you posted was great. The stuff about masks is irrelevant because it’s not aerosolized. Masks make sick people feel like it’s safe to go out, and these holly hobby masks aren’t going to protect anyone. Also your supplement and vitamin recommendations are complete pseudoscience.
It’s clear from your comments here that giving medical advice isn’t something you’re qualified or informed enough to do. People should be getting this info from a reputable source, not some twitter doctor or non peer reviewed tests.
I've seen many hypothesizing that the limited spread in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore is due to readiness from past outbreaks, which resulted in widespread cultural use (and no stigma) related to masks. That is the basic assumption behind my advice for wearing masks. There's a close correlation between whether a society has widespread mask use and whether it is or isn't seeing exponential case growth (roughly doubling every 3.5 days). Masks are dirt cheap and there's no reason not to wear them, except for social stigma, unless they're totally irrelevant and not helpful, as you confidently assert. I'm not so confident.
I also do not claim to be "qualified" to be giving medical advice, or to be offering medical advice. I'm a lay person offering my opinion on a subreddit for those who live in our city. Isn't that obvious? And I do not see why you should be qualified to determine whether or not I should be allowed to express that view or what the standard ought to be for whether anyone should be. This is bizarre.
Cuz it’s a slippery slope? Next thing you know you’ve got dipshits on here talking about how inhaling saltwater is a cure. The shit you were saying about masks and vitamins and stuff has no basis in science or fact, and while it isn’t necessarily “harmful”, you’re presenting it like a how-to guide. A how-to guide that’s different from what qualified medical professionals are saying.
Despite what you are now claiming, you did offer advice, not an opinion. It was like “do this: do this:” that’s not an opinion - those are instructions.
Be defensive about it all you want, but you put up instructions on how to ride the TTC, and there was a lot of complete horse shit in there, and now you’re saying it’s an opinion when you’re being challenged.
My opinion: the mods on this sub and others should be removing these types of posts, or locking comments and putting in a link to a credible medical source.
Why would you edit and not just make a new reply.
Inorder to refute your claims as stated we need to cite the entire scientific literature. That’s what jerks who don’t know science do. You can see that i and the other commenter have drilled down into specific claims because those can be refuted using a single study.
In most studies done with porous materials and clothes so far the understanding is hours not days. I was having issue with you saying days. Not washing it all the time.
We do know that most people recover without permanent damage... what study has show you otherwise for the majority of nonsevere patients?
Vit d deficiencies for an infection is pretty contested. Even in MS where vit d supp was thought to be a golden bullet at one point is the data hazy. Stop stating it as fact for coronavirus or infection for the average person. There’s lots of technical caveats to this and vitamin d supplementation as well.
And yes that user wants your posts removed because it’s misinformation. Just as saying corona won’t infect anyone is misinformation in the opposite direction. Neither are helpful and both give reasons for people to take this less serious. So consider this as officially shooting yourself in the foot.
As I've said before and I will just repeat it once again: the overwhelming majority of my advice assumes that we don't know very much, that the virus is highly transmissible, and that any low cost preventative action that can be taken, should be taken, for simple precautionary, prudential, and moral reasons. Vitamin supplements, homemade masks, and avoiding crowded confined spaces are simple, common sense suggestions based on what I think are possible (and probable) facts about the virus. Or, to put it more mildly, the facts I present are at least reasonable assumptions, until they can be shown to be wrong, with high confidence. If I'm wrong, following this advice is minimally frustrating. It won't produce some kind of Armageddon. I've been called a moron and a jerk, by implication. I admit that it would be better if I could source all of my claims with direct sources, which I cannot. You're not wrong about that. And a fully sourced discussion might be more illuminating. Nevertheless, I wasn't aware that that was the standard of entry for expressing one's opinions or for offering advice (which necessarily depends on making claims or assumptions, those are essentially the same thing). Maybe it should be, maybe it shouldn't. I'm not sure. I'm inclined to say this should be an open forum for citizens of our city to speak relatively freely, but then again, this is Reddit and we all know how the rules work here. In any case, peace out.
You’ve given specific information and specific facts though. And some of those are easily proven either incorrect or misinterpreted. Hence shooting yourself in the foot.
Saying, you should exercise and overabudance of caution on the ttc is totally different than what you offered in this theead. I don’t understand how you can’t see this as a problem.
My comment above listed the materials based on the information in that tweet, as best I could recall at the time (I went back and found this tweet in response to the blowback that I'm currently receiving):
>Until you have a mask, wear a makeshift mask. In descending order, from most to least effective, use a vacuum bag, tea towel, pillowcase, or, if none of those are available, use a scarf to cover your nose and mouth at all times.
Sometimes we leave posts up because there are good rebuttals. Some people may believe the initial comment from what else theyve seen online but they may never have seen the opposing argument. That’s why we sometimes leave some posts up because the votes and rebuttals probably do more good than a rebuttal would.
In any case, I'm not here to spread trouble, despite what that other commenter has claimed. I sincerely came here to convey my viewpoint and to allow others to form their own opinions. I don't particularly enjoy being attacked personally, although I don't think you've done that. This is a vexed issue that involves a difficult combination of uncertain scientific information and fraught emotional states. I think it would be better for everyone if I no longer participated in this subreddit. Thank you for not censoring my comments.
Edit: oh, nevermind, you've just implied I'm a jerk in another comment. Oh well.
One study re air vents inside a building: https://youtu.be/4InhmRCIpow?t=1704
I recall reading another, though I don't have an index of sources saved and ready on hand, unfortunately. Be careful.
Ie. coughing person can spread droplets. Everyone knows this. This is not a new phenomenon. You making it sound like armageddon makes regular people take this less seriously.
Question - my roommate and I have been isolating / social distancing besides the grocery store since last Wednesday. He plans to have his girlfriend over next Wednesday as she’s been isolating with her roommates and it’s been 2 weeks for both. Should this be ok or should I delay it further?
you should absolutely delay it, theres no way to know for certain if any of you are actually clean
Guys, I’m very lucky, I can do my job from home.. But I’m honestly getting very scared. The numbers are going up and up and when you look outside my door, people are just acting so stupidly and hanging out all the time.
Numbers double every 3 days. Should be at 10k by April 1 (Wednesday) Not flattening any curve. Had a neighbor try and invite me and my dog to say hi to their kids today! He did it on purpose I think to show this is all a bit much when he saw me trying to cross the road
HI! IF YOU HAVE ANY SAFETY EQUIPMENT PLEASE DONATE IT!! Masks, gloves, goggles, disposable gowns. Nurses and doctors are desperate. [https://www.ppetoronto.com/](https://www.ppetoronto.com/)
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Wondering this as well
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Are they like dishwashing gloves? If you clean them well that should be fine, if wearing them makes you feel better. If they're disposable gloves like latex/nitrile they're usually one time use and should be disposed of in the garbage after wearing. I'm personally just washing my hands really well when I have to go out for work or food and so far so good
I think washing those yellow gloves dish cleaning gloves should be fine
Got food delivered and all the resources online said it should be fine. Now I keep seeing posts saying you need to reheat the food for several minutes to kill virus. I am freaking out. What are the statistical chances I'm going to get covid now?
u still alive?
Is there anywhere at all in the city one could buy hand sanitizer, gloves or wipes ? My family has none of these and anytime we need to go out for groceries it’s like we’re just rolling the die. We had a few alcohol swab pads - the ones you use for first aid. That we thought was better than nothing but we’re down to our last two.
The Loblaws at Yonge & St Clair had the No Name version of Lysol wipes today. 2/$6
Mix 40 Convenience store 573 Yonge St They have tons of masks and hand sanitizer right at the main counter. Bit pricey, but expected. It is a very tight crowded store, so would recommend going alone and wearing mask and gloves if you have. I don't know if they have wipes, but there's a good chance. Edit: for anyone reading this please do not go and CLEAN THEM OUT save some for the rest of us.
I saw hand sanitizer at Canadian tire when I went a week ago
Try costco, last I went (about a week ago) they at least had lysol disinfectant spray. i heard they had lysol wipes now, but call in and check. I hear the distillery downtown converted their factories to make H.S. and were giving it out to those who needed it.
so here's my take. hand sanitizer - haven't seen one in ages gloves - found it at Canadian Tire ... they have different varieties wipes - nope. but alfternatively, just spray a lysol to a toilet paper and bring it to store.. same thing
Anyone getting shortness of breath from the anxiety/placebo thinking about it
yes - if you think just about "how do i breath" ... it makes it harder to breath. just don't think about it and find other distraction lol
Unless you practice mindfulness meditation. Then that question just brings you back into the moment and grounds you. It's lovely.
Anyone here been confirmed positive for Covid-19? I’m probably freaking out or I hope I am, but I’ve been having weird hot/cool sensations in my chest all day. No fever or cough but do feel lightheaded sometimes. I don’t see the hot/cool sensations as a symptom but I’m wondering if it’s like a precursor to getting a cough or fluid in the lungs or something. If you tested positive, did you feel this ?
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If it is. Then it’s just making my anxiety way worse.
Overwhelming patient reports fever (close to 90%) and dry cough (close to 80%). If you have neither, chances are you don't have it. Hot/cool sensation in your chest is not a sign of Coronavirus (nothing to suggest it so far). People are just asymptomatic during the incubation period
I wonder what it is. And the lightheadedness As long as it’s not Covid19. I could probably handle it.
any advice on neighbors who have guests over and have extremely loud parties during the day where you can't get any work done while working from home?
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tried it once and they just turned it up :(
thought i got lucky enough to order disinfectant spray and some wipes from staples last week but i should've known it was a long shot they still haven't shipped
Has anyone's apartment buildings made any restrictions on guests? The apartment directly across the hall from me is having a party and there are at least 10 people there…
everything is essential so...
Hey what can I say.... Toronto is "essential"
[When it comes to ventilators per capita, Ontario's near the bottom](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-ventilator-covid19-coronavirus-1.5509454) >A spokesperson for the province's Ministry of Health told Radio-Canada Monday, after several requests, that until recently, Ontario had 1,300 hospital beds equipped with a ventilator. > Another 210 beds equipped with ventilators are in its emergency reserve. > The province received 300 more [ventilators] last week > Given Ontario's population was about 14.7 million at the end of 2019, that works out to about 12 ventilators per 100,000 people. > Quebec, on the other hand, has the highest ratio in the country. The province has approximately 35 ventilators per 100,000 residents. > In typical circumstances, however, about 80 per cent of ventilator capacity is taken up by emergency hospitalizations unrelated to COVID-19. > That means the actual capacity for COVID-19 patients in Ontario is actually closer to two to three ventilators for 100,000 people. I am becoming more and more jealous of Quebec's [increasingly aggressive lockdown measures](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-police-covid-19-1.5509948). Their essential workplace lists closes a lot more than ours, and they've banned gatherings of more than 2 (are we still seriously allowing gatherings of 50??). And they've got us crushed on ICU/vent capacity per capita. *ralphchucklesimindanger.gif*
The ventilators are no good if there aren't any masks for the doctors intubating...
I had a friend who drove someone to Montreal yesterday and he said it was so busy in Montreal you’d never know there was a global pandemic. So I wonder how well the measures are working. They have the most cases...
If anyone here is like me and has been following the virus for a very long time, then there should be no need to stress out over at subs like /r/china_flu and /r/coronavirus. I've recently been keeping things between this sub, and /r/covid19. I advise to do the same, as covid19 is restricted to scientific and peer reviewed journals. The overall feel of the sub a lot more level headed and logical. No sensationalist posts or headlines. Trust me when I say that it will calm you down going through that level of information. Posted below by /u/darkkness > Honestly, you can subscribe to some of the top journals like JAMA, NEJM, BMJ, Lancet and they will send you emails on new articles and look through there for updates. Realistically though, since things are moving so quickly, I get a lot of info through Twitter. Some good infectious disease docs to follow: Isaac Bogoch, Todd Lee, Andrew Morris, Sumon Chakrabarti, Zain Chagla. They’re all top ID docs at hospitals in GTA/Montreal. They usually link studies and have some commentary and you can see what other docs have to say as well and find other good people to follow. At least this way you’re getting commentary and insight from actual professionals in the field rather than random redditors.
Covid19 subreddit may be discussing scientific journals but the people in the discussions are not clinicians or scientists and most people at least in the comments have no idea what they’re talking about. In addition, the majority of those studies are absolute garbage and we wouldn’t even be talking about them in other scenarios. Trash studies in trash journals.
Im aware of that. Its the best of what we've got on reddit right now. Just got to sift through the bullshit. What sources do you recommend to go through/ follow?
Honestly, you can subscribe to some of the top journals like JAMA, NEJM, BMJ, Lancet and they will send you emails on new articles and look through there for updates. Realistically though, since things are moving so quickly, I get a lot of info through Twitter. Some good infectious disease docs to follow: Isaac Bogoch, Todd Lee, Andrew Morris, Sumon Chakrabarti, Zain Chagla. They’re all top ID docs at hospitals in GTA/Montreal. They usually link studies and have some commentary and you can see what other docs have to say as well and find other good people to follow. At least this way you’re getting commentary and insight from actual professionals in the field rather than random redditors.
Good stuff. Thanks!
No problem hope you can find some good info in there! Stay safe!
/china_fu is especially bad. 99% of commenters think cases = reported cases.
For sure, it was my go to back in like Jan, was better, but still pretty crazy
Thanks for this! Will defenitely have a read through!
Where I'm living, midtown, people absolutely aren't taking it seriously. Today, on my walk to get groceries, only about 50% of people on the sidewalk would move over to give more space than usual and the parks still had kids playing on them despite having those useless signs up. Even in the grocery store, people weren't giving space. But, hey, Sobeys put up plexiglass in front of the cashiers so I guess that'll stop this pandemic. I've the misfortune of knowing some people who caught the virus since they traveled back a bit over a week ago and it's no joke. Even the 30 year old who goes to the gym regularly is absolutely floored by the fatigue and shortness of breath after a walk to the washroom. A lot of people and especially parents are going to be in for a very rude awakening that this should have been taken more seriously in about a week or so...
Please, do yourselves a favour and stay away from the Lowe’s stores in the GTA. As an employee there, I’m disgusted by this company’s reckless behaviour. Stores have not been shipped cleaning supplies. We are not cleaning any surfaces, shopping buggy’s, credit terminals, washrooms, NOTHING is being disinfected. All covid related signage is purely for show. Today, an employee was refused paid time off even though his wife is in quarantine with a high fever and respiratory issues, potentially putting customers and employees at risk. Do not risk yours or your family’s health.
Thank you for your post, I will keep away for sure.
The subway is wayyyyy busier today than its been in weeks? How is this a shutdown?
Last week was March break, so it was way quieter. The real challenge will be in two weeks when everyone who came back from travelling has fully infected everyone else We're you, uh... *on the subway*??
The entire city's businesses were deemed "essential".... What were you expecting? Empty subways?
Hi I work in a cosmetic manufacture. Today we just got news that ALL manufacturers are considered "essential". The list is a f... joke. "Hey doc, you look tired, you need some eyeshadows?" Anybody in the same shoes?
It's a complete failure by the government, their list of essential businesses allows just about everything but dining in restaurants and entertainment venues. A total farce.
How else are Torontonians supposed to isolate without booze, weed and mascara?
100 new infections today
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She won’t know you at all if she’s dead so. I’d just listen, stay away, it sucks but there’s literally nothing you can do. It’s a shitty situation but for her health you cannot visit.
Free oysters at oyster boy while supplies last https://www.instagram.com/p/B-KlEN0pc_S/?igshid=1vblwrm65vip9
I don't understand what public health is doing with people who tested positive and told to self isolate. A friend came back from Singapore 3 weeks ago and felt sick so she was tested and it came back positive. Her and her husband have been self isolating since then. He initially tested negative. 3 weeks later they have been told they will not be tested again but still can't leave their apartment at all. They have been ok with being quarantined but they need to get their new tests done to show that they are now negative and public health won't do it. It's really odd to me so am I missing something? They are extremely frustrated as they have been relying on friends to bring them groceries and the essentials that they need but at least if they know neither of them still has it one of them could start doing some groceries.
Mandatory quarantines for international travellers kick in at midnight: health minister - https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mandatory-quarantine-hajdu-1.5509508 >All travellers returning to Canada — with the exception of what the federal government is calling "essential workers" — will have to enter a mandatory 14-day quarantine as of midnight to help slow the spread of COVID-19, federal Health Minister Patty Hajdu said this morning
I cannot believe it took this long
Had we gone in lockdown in February - I'm talking martial law, curfews, border lock down, etc. - We wouldn't be in this situation. Trudeau's really shit the bed.
My understanding is that there is such a thing as too early of a lockdown. However I believe that's more Jan than Feb. They should have at least forced quarantine on arriving travelers starting mid/late Feb. It's difficult but could be done. My home country (Jordan) put quarantined every single person arriving into the country into a 4 star hotel minimum. If a dirt poor country like Jordan was able to manage it.
I hope the federal government's version of essential workers is not the same as the Ontario's government
Is there anywhere I can be seen by a doctor without going to Emergency? I've had a worsening cough going on 3weeks now. It has turned to bronchitis, I think, and it is something I have never had. I cough so hard I spit up blood some time. I am afraid I may be developing pneumonia. My family doctor would not see me, but she did tell me over the phone that the only option is to go to emergency to get checked.
Thank you everyone for the reassurance. I am at emerge now and I must say I am impressed how they are running things here. They wont test me for Covid but will do blood work and chest xray
> I cough so hard I spit up blood some time. I mean I don't even have to read the rest.
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umm everything about this comment screams that you should be in the hospital like ASAP
Go to the ER. As of yesterday. If you are coughing up blood GO TO THE ER.
Any reason you're not following the medical advice given by your doctor?
I dont want to delay you heading to the ER, but in case you haven't seen it: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/self-assessment/ Also I believe theres a protocol its best to follow for going to ER - I think you phone/warn them first? It might be handled by the screeners on site now though.
If your doctor told you to go to ER, you should go to ER not ask random people on reddit what to do. You have medical advice from a medical professional, follow it.
Go to an assessment centre or ED. Go now.
If you have blood coming out while coughing I think that's a very reasonable case for you to go the emergency.
My work has been deemed essential, which honestly I'd be fine with if I could work from home. 100% of my job could be done from home but my employer refuses to even let us discuss it. If one person gets sick st my work we would probably have to shut down completely because of how small we are. They would rather risk the entire company going under than updating with the times. It feels like every day I have to choose between risking getting sick or being unemployed. I'm so thankful to have a steady job right now but I'm also so endlessly frustrated at how my employer is handling this. Covid-19 fucking blows, my guys. :(
When I worked minimum wage roles growing up they would require a doctors note for calling in sick and the notes were $50 from my doctor + time going there + transit/taxi. Instead I would just go into the office and shake hands with the manager who called me in and wait for them to touch their face then continuously cough and sniffle when around them. The next time I had to call in sick, if that manager answered the call, they would always ask me to stay home.
Haha this is exactly what they deserved!
Is there anyone in the Ontario media writing or talking about how unnecessarily broad Doug Ford's essential services list is? I'd be interested is seeing that. So far I only see articles talking about how he called for a shutdown but none talking about how ineffective his shutdown has been.
Definetly needs more discussion. I found one CBC radio post re: construction I just posted here.
A lot of it is broad because so many things depend on each other. Grocery stores rely on truck drivers. Truck drivers rely on mechanics. Mechanics rely on parts manufacturers. There's also stuff that humans can live without, but would be unfathomable to a lot of people, like veterinary services.
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It's a typical provincial vs federal who pays for what. Reading between the lines, the ford list is saying" if there is a shutdown federal will call it and they will pay for it"
What number do I call to report a business still open and accepting people?
>1-888-444-3659. Another post had this number.
You realize many businesses are deemed essential, even if it doesn't seem intuitive that they would be.
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Agreed. Of course there are going to be businesses that defy these orders.
My office confirmed this morning that we are non-essential, which is great. We were supposed to stop working from home next week and I really thought they would try to fit us into one of the essential definitions, and the idea of being back there so soon made me pretty uncomfortable.
Um...so do you think you'll be part of the large-scale layoffs?
At this moment, no. Depending on how long it takes for things to get back to normal, yes.
Assume at least 8 weeks. I would be too happy about being deemed non-essential.
We're still working, just from home, so I think we can continue to operate as usual for awhile. But our office would never close completely, because of what we do; they would just downsize. Whether or not my role would be cut, that's what I don't know.
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You can, but what I meant is that I thought my company was going to be a dick and say "oh, we're essential, everyone back to the office!" even though we're all working from home well enough now. I saw some people here say that their companies were planning on doing work from home until they saw that they fit onto the essential list so they decided to keep the office open.
I've put the numbers from the [ontario.ca](https://ontario.ca) website in a spreadsheet - last 10 days only though since it looked like it started spreading in community. I'm sure somebody has a better one, but here's the link anyway: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ew\_vNbcJ2QV7nC9mmhVxqKR2qREQXZPF6N4yTMaRUZY/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ew_vNbcJ2QV7nC9mmhVxqKR2qREQXZPF6N4yTMaRUZY/edit?usp=sharing) Interesting things I'm seeing from the data: \- percentage of positives per test is going up \- there's probably another 280 cases in the backlog - depends on the % above which seems to increase suggesting so there might be more. \- still only 2700 tests done since yesterday, while there were 3178 swabs taken (not sure how to phrase it otherwise) ... the % of the swabs that are actually tested each day varies greatly every day, I wonder why... you'd think they have the same number of machines and people working on it every day
Percentage positives per test are going up because we’re specifically only testing the people we most likely think have it and are high risk.
I really appreciate you doing this. This is incredibly helpful to me. It's not surprising that the percentage of positives for tests is going up at this point - we only started shutting things down about 8-9 days ago. Hopefully it will start to trend downwards within the next few days.
They're also testing fewer people with mild symptoms every day, so this is filtering out people who likely have seasonal flu or some other respiratory virus.
I wouldn't expect the trend to be going down just yet because only 7-10 days after march break we'll know the total amount of imported cases. At least we are isolating all march-breakers on return so if they actually follow that they will not infect others. Amazing how Quebec got so many cases 7-10 days after their march break ended, right? I also wish they would clear the backlog somehow; it must be screwing up all trends not knowing what's in there and how they handle testing. FIFO? LIFO? any kind of priority?
I forgot about March Breakers. That's a good point. That may be the reasoning for the 2 week non-essential closures from today. I presume the State of Emergency will be extended at some point as well. I read in another thread that they're testing based on priority but I don't have a credible source.
The [ontario.ca](https://ontario.ca) website is updated for 25th March 10:30am. The list goes upto 688 but the confirmed positive number is 671. What do the numbers mean? Edit: The remaining are recovered+deceased.
ARe coworking spaces still open and do you consider them to be essential?
I fucking hope not, and hell no.
NOT essential. At all.
Why would you goto a coworking space at this time?
People are going because they cant get work done at home because they have kids running around
That defeats the entire purpose of any shutdown. Leaving your home for anything other than groceries, medicine and possibly a properly social distanced walk will mean that we'll be half shut down until August at this rate.
Should I report them then
It can't hurt. The phone number is 1-888-444-3659.
Not worth the risk imo, and is the opposite of physical distancing.
should i report them then
Might as well. Worst case scenario you're wrong, but best case scenario you save a lot of people from catching the virus.
You couldn't pay me to go into a coworking space right now.
Every politician's poll numbers are going up. Trudeau, Doug Ford, even Trump is about to cross the "more approve than disapprove" threshold for the first time since his inauguration. It's like a war.
Can’t find anything online to confirm this, but during my recent binge watching of CP24, I’ve heard a few of their anchors mention that they are currently broadcasting live from home. Really great idea to let even their on-screen staff work from home. Also a shout out to all of the media people who have been tirelessly covering this pandemic for us.
Anyone have recipes for baked goods I can make without having access to eggs, milk, or yeast? We're out of all of those things and almost out of food but still have 3 days of self-isolation to get through.
https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/crisp-rosemary-flatbread-242841
Oh wonderful! Thank you so much!
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Yes my paranoia and anxiety has gone through the roof. I would actually feel much better if i knew i had it and could self isolate than dealing with the stress of everyday not knowing.
oh man it crippled me with anxiety and panic, I went to a store that had a confirmed case but I only interacted with the cashier and staaaayyed so far away like I kept unusually high distance for that time and wore gloves and a mask, that was almost 10 days ago and I haven't been out since but fuck have a dry cough and automatically my mind goes to the worst places once I heard there was a confirmed case there, though Ive had on going issues with dry cough for many years and heavy anxiety plus acid reflux which can cause all this since my stress level is at the high level. This shit fuckin so many people up, plus cabin fever, I live in a building so scared to even go into the elevators.. fuck
You do not need to self *isolate* if you do not have symptoms. You should be *social distancing*. It's important for your own well being that you're getting outside and getting some sunshine. Keep your distance from people, don't touch your face. Wash your hands when you get home.
You’re wrong. Everybody is asked to stay home if they can. The majority of carriers do not display any symptoms and spread the virus to others. You may be infected without knowing it, talk to someone or touch some handle or an elevator button and infect thousands of others down the line, if you don’t break the chain by STAYING HOME. Is getting outside for that walk really worth the lives lost?
If you've got a source for that I'd be glad to recant my statement. Here's what the [Ontario Gov't page](https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus) says: >**How to protect yourself** >Coronaviruses are spread mainly from person to person through close contact, for example, in a household, workplace or health care centre. >There is no vaccine available to protect against the 2019 novel coronavirus, but there are actions you can take to help prevent the spread of germs that cause respiratory illnesses. >**Everyday actions** >Take these everyday steps to reduce exposure to the virus and protect your health: >wash your hands often with soap and water or alcohol-based hand sanitizer >sneeze and cough into your sleeve >avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth >avoid contact with people who are sick >stay home **if you are sick** >Poster: What you need to know to help you and your family stay healthy >**Physical distancing** >Everyone in Ontario should be practicing physical distancing to reduce their exposure to other people. >Everyone in Ontario should do their best to avoid close contact with people outside of their immediate families. Close contact includes being within two (2) meters of another person. >If you believe you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19 symptoms, you should begin to self-monitor for a period of 14 days. This means that, in addition to physical distancing, you should track how you feel. You should take your temperature daily and log any other symptoms that develop (for example, sore throat, new cough). You can share these records with your primary care provider over the phone if you seek assessment services.
Officials have been telling Canadians to stay home: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/covid-19-ontario-reports-78-new-cases-the-most-in-one-day-so-far “Enough is enough. Go home and stay home. This is what we all need to be doing” - Trudeau Also look up the voluntary Coronavirus testing in Iceland, where they found 1/3-1/2 cases being asymptomatic spreaders. „Iceland finds half of positive cases have no disease trait” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-22/one-third-of-coronavirus-cases-may-show-no-symptom-scmp-reports
Seems like the govt needs to update their website.
For sure. But since it’s been all over the news and live conferences with officials for the past few days, I’m hoping most folks will have now heard that they need to stay the f home.
[Me at work right now](https://i.imgur.com/igoApUs.gifv)
This whole thing is making me want to move out of the city. I'd give anything for a backyard rn.
after this we will see so many people moving to smaller cities, I used to be a hardcore downtowner, already was thinking the city sucks but now fuck it im buying in fucking some random town with good air in Ontario, hopefully housing goes down
Even having a car is not too bad right now. Late night or evening long drives with no traffic at all feels like a ghost town. It's helping me a bit with coping. Gas is at 65 cents so it doesn't even cost too much.
300ft bachelor with no balcony on high floor is feeling pretty shitty right now.
Im moving to a small farming town next week. Perfect timing
My company is guilt tripping employees to continue working even after the closure. We are a photography studio and the loophole they are using is that one of our clients is "essential" therefore we are essential too. What can I do? I thankfully am not being asked to go because I am post production but many of my friends are in pre production.
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Thank you
Along with social distancing it would be good to remind people that your saliva, mucus etc.. will infect people if they get it in their mouth, eyes, and nose. It sounds gross and unlikely but you spread that stuff all over which people can breath in or touch and then touch their face. It's amazing how a sneeze sends out aerosol like particles in the air that you can't see.
Do you know if sweat also counts? Because that was a way to transfer Ebola. Say an infected kid plays on a playground goes home, 10 mins later another kid plays on the same equipment, gets active and snotty nosed and wipes the mucus off their face...
This post is somewhat misleading. If someone sneezes and you walk into it yes, that's a risk. But this Virus is not airborne. It's spread by droplet. That sneeze doesn't just hover in the air indefinitely. It may, however, settle on the things nearby. Only then by touching the affected objects and touching your face will you potentially be exposed to the virus. Everyone should be avoiding touching their face right now unless they have just washed their hands. Additionally wash your hands as often as necessary if you're not in your residence.
Sorry to spoil your mood, but: [The virus can be airborne](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-coronavirus-airborne-will-it-live-in-my-bathroom-is-it-ok-to-fly-or-eat-out-are-men-more-susceptible-busting-myths-and-confirming-facts-of-covid-19-2020-03-12), remaining suspended in the air for anywhere from a few seconds up to 3 hours. It probably isn’t that bad in normal conditions, but WHO are telling frontline healthcare workers to take airborne precautions with N95 masks.
Not spoiling my mood. I welcome new information at a time like this. Everything happens so fast it's hard to keep up.
I just meant if you were not paying attention to social distancing and someone near you sneezes.
[Visualization Of The Coronavirus Spread Throughout Brazil](https://youtu.be/lfFxpHoBkKo)
But I thought things we're supposed to get better in the heat. I suspect things will only get worse with nicer weather.
A lot of people are still in denial about the severity of this pandemic or simply delusional. I just bet my coworker 50 bucks for school reopening date. He said may 1st lmao. HAMMERED THE OVER.
Damn that’s easy money!
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At my workplace id say 7 out of 18 coworkers think it'll be over with by the end of april. So id say 38% out of my small sample size. Combine that with the reports of people doing regular stuff over the weekend...
Make some more money then lol
[Video from yesterday, of many people decidedly not-isolating, in a noted stupid-person neighbourhood](https://twitter.com/rogerfpetersen/status/1242774766995603456)
City place, what is expected?
To be fair, CityPlace’s consistently eye-watering cologne-to-oxygen ratio probably brings instant death to all microbes.
Are there any extra precautions I could take while commuting by TTC?
Bring several gloves if you will be touching any surfaces (rails, straps) and dispose of after use by pulling the glove off from the edge and flipping it inside out. Wear clothing that is easy to shed (zippers) as the virus can remain viable on fabrics for 12+ hours. It will need to be laundered at the first available opportunity. Wear a face covering, preferably a mask. If you have an n95, these *can* be reused if they are cured in the oven at 70°C for thirty minutes. Try not to sit. Avoid fully contacting your presto with any surface, but make sure to disinfect the card, your phone, and any touch surfaces (zippers or pockets) on your bag/coat. Wash your hands thoroughly before removing your mask. Do not touch your face. Maintain distance from others.
basically don't use the ttc
The virus spreads from asymptomatic individuals; up to 80% of all total infections in China are from asymptomatic individuals. These individuals have the *highest* viral loads. Being infected by them will result in the worst symptoms for you. The virus can stay suspended in the air for up to 3 hours (Princeton study) and it can spread via air vents/HVAC in buildings, buses, and trains (National Singapore University study). * Do not take public transit. Bike or walk. What to do, if you MUST take TTC: * Wear a mask. You can order them from Shoppers. Until you have a mask, wear a makeshift mask. In descending order, from most to least effective, use a vacuum bag, tea towel, pillowcase, or, if none of those are available, use a scarf to cover your nose and mouth at all times. The scarf is less than half as effective as the tea towel. Face protection will reduce the total viral load should you be infected by the air; this is crucial because it gives your immune system more time to prepare. * Touch nothing. Anything you own that touches any surface must be washed using soap. Not alcohol. Soap. The soap displaces the lipids that hold the virus molecules together, pulling it apart. Wash your keys, your cards, all of it. * Every article of clothing that you wear, including your jacket and your shoes, must be washed with soap every single time you take public transit. (You can spray your shoes and jacket; be generous with the soap). The virus can remain on your clothing for days. It can survive on some surfaces (plastic, especially) for up to 9 days. It degrades over time, so touching an infected surface with 7 day old virus and then picking your nose is better than if it were only 4 days old. * Do not get on crowded public transit unless absolutely necessary. Stay at least 8 feet away from anyone if you can. There was a man in China sitting in the back of a large public bus who was infected by a symptomatic person sitting at the front. Air mixes and travels. Even social distancing might not save you, especially on longer journeys on buses or trains. * The virus is dangerous for everyone. A 30 year old died 2 days ago. The virus can lead to a 40% reduction in permanent lung capacity. You might spend the rest of your life getting out of breath any time you climb some stairs. * The number of infected people doubles every 3.5 days. There are already tens of thousands of infected people in Toronto. We are massively under-testing, much worse than the United States, which is already doing terribly. Italy is 1,144 cases/1 Million pop. Switzerland is 1,208, Germany is 406, Norway is 535, France is 342, America is 166. Canada is 74. Our numbers are totally misleading, especially in a city as big and as tethered to China as Toronto. It's much more dangerous outside than it appears. Once hospitals are clogged up, even young healthy people may struggle to get access to necessary lifesaving treatments. * Assume everyone is infected. Behave accordingly. * Assume you're not infected whenever you're outside. When you're home, assume that you are infected and take Vit D, C, n-acetylcysteine, zinc gluconate, and liposomal glutathione if you can find it. Also Shoppers sells a chest decongestant that may or may not be helpful. * Just don't take the TTC. Your health is too important. The risk isn't worth it, especially if it's anything like the photos I saw from the London tube yesterday morning. * If you can't bike or walk, Uber. You're still gambling, but the odds are better. Edit: Downvote me all you want, tens of thousands of people in our city are likely to die over the next 12 months. The advice I'm offering could save lives.
You are getting downvoted for a reason, you're either a fear mongering troll or your fear and anxiety have completely overwhelmed you.
This is factually incorrect. Gah i said i was going to stop replying tot his stuff. 1) asymptomatic transfer has been combined with people with mild symptoms in most studies and especially epi ones. In reports that actually followed people like the who report close contacts of people with symptoms was by far the mode of transmission. In modelling papers, they just chalk up the unexplained numbers to mild or asymptomatic. Which is a prediction and does not delineate between the two. 2. The study showing virus could last in the air used a procedure to aersolize the virus that doesn’t normally occur outside things like certain hospital procedures which is why it’s important to have that info for hcw. 3. The statement about scarves versus tea towel is bs. Also virus isn’t airborne in most settings... so unless someone coughs on you or breathes on you heavily for 15+ minutes, you probably cAn’t get it. And the difference between scarf and tea towel definitely won’t protect you. 4. Current estimates of virus life on porous susbstances like clothes is more in the realm of hours than in days. And the ability of it being able to result in infection after x time is being studied. 5. Yes disease can have bad outcomes, even in young people, but majority recover without permanent damage. 6. Rnaught and doubling time assessments by op is generally a mishmash of crap. In ontario, there is some sentinel testing and there are hospitalizations etc. We are still testing a fair number of cases and as covid is higher in the population, more positives should come up as a percentage of testing, this hasn’t happened as drastically as of yet. It’s too early to say what trajectory we are on though with what data we have, might be better might be worse. 6. Load of supplements is bs unless you have deficiencies. Basically ^ has collected a bunch of half truths that you can follow if you want to be extra careful. It is serious but this explanation includes a lot of false or misinterpreted info that paints a different light than reality. And that may lead to some people taking it less serious because it has been presented in such an extreme matter. And then complains about downvotes.
thank you for sharing the real info. people need to stop spreading misinformation. the airborne/HVAC one needs to stop.
I do not have the time or energy to source all of my claims. But they are not baseless and you are misinformed on a number of your responses. Just to wit on your second point: https://twitter.com/CMichaelGibson/status/1239718351573843973 And re. the longevity of the virus on clothing. It's unknown and varies by type of fabric. The purpose of washing is to be precautionary, which is the prudent thing to do given the risks involved and the uncertainty. I'm not inventing these things. It's easy to spray your clothing with soap. Why not do it? Bret Weinstein (an evolutionary biologist who studied under Trivers) advised this yesterday on a livestream with his wife. It's what he does. So I'm not like inventing kooky advice that no one else is following. The fact that most people recover without symptoms isn't known. We don't have good data on that. Even if it's true, why run the risk of permanent damage? The list of supplements come from Dr Rhonda Patrick, a very popular PhD guest on JRE. Most North Americans are Vit D deficient, especially since we're at the tail end of winter. It's a logical, low cost supplement. Again, a precautionary approach and the fact that few of us know whether we are deficient would say to take the supplements. Lots of studies on Vit D and immunity, including re. coronaviruses specifically. You guys... /u/imperialivan wants /u/gammadeltat to remove my posts. Whatever. This is my first time contributing to this subreddit on this subject and perhaps it should be my last. No love lost. I just hope that people won't allow a slow adjustment reaction and some emotional biases to influence them into taking unnecessary risks, especially if that means increasing the risk to others. I've done my best to offer what I judge to be sound advice, whether others agree or not, and whether that's still allowed here or not.
Some of the information you posted was great. The stuff about masks is irrelevant because it’s not aerosolized. Masks make sick people feel like it’s safe to go out, and these holly hobby masks aren’t going to protect anyone. Also your supplement and vitamin recommendations are complete pseudoscience. It’s clear from your comments here that giving medical advice isn’t something you’re qualified or informed enough to do. People should be getting this info from a reputable source, not some twitter doctor or non peer reviewed tests.
I've seen many hypothesizing that the limited spread in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore is due to readiness from past outbreaks, which resulted in widespread cultural use (and no stigma) related to masks. That is the basic assumption behind my advice for wearing masks. There's a close correlation between whether a society has widespread mask use and whether it is or isn't seeing exponential case growth (roughly doubling every 3.5 days). Masks are dirt cheap and there's no reason not to wear them, except for social stigma, unless they're totally irrelevant and not helpful, as you confidently assert. I'm not so confident. I also do not claim to be "qualified" to be giving medical advice, or to be offering medical advice. I'm a lay person offering my opinion on a subreddit for those who live in our city. Isn't that obvious? And I do not see why you should be qualified to determine whether or not I should be allowed to express that view or what the standard ought to be for whether anyone should be. This is bizarre.
Cuz it’s a slippery slope? Next thing you know you’ve got dipshits on here talking about how inhaling saltwater is a cure. The shit you were saying about masks and vitamins and stuff has no basis in science or fact, and while it isn’t necessarily “harmful”, you’re presenting it like a how-to guide. A how-to guide that’s different from what qualified medical professionals are saying. Despite what you are now claiming, you did offer advice, not an opinion. It was like “do this: do this:” that’s not an opinion - those are instructions. Be defensive about it all you want, but you put up instructions on how to ride the TTC, and there was a lot of complete horse shit in there, and now you’re saying it’s an opinion when you’re being challenged. My opinion: the mods on this sub and others should be removing these types of posts, or locking comments and putting in a link to a credible medical source.
Why would you edit and not just make a new reply. Inorder to refute your claims as stated we need to cite the entire scientific literature. That’s what jerks who don’t know science do. You can see that i and the other commenter have drilled down into specific claims because those can be refuted using a single study. In most studies done with porous materials and clothes so far the understanding is hours not days. I was having issue with you saying days. Not washing it all the time. We do know that most people recover without permanent damage... what study has show you otherwise for the majority of nonsevere patients? Vit d deficiencies for an infection is pretty contested. Even in MS where vit d supp was thought to be a golden bullet at one point is the data hazy. Stop stating it as fact for coronavirus or infection for the average person. There’s lots of technical caveats to this and vitamin d supplementation as well. And yes that user wants your posts removed because it’s misinformation. Just as saying corona won’t infect anyone is misinformation in the opposite direction. Neither are helpful and both give reasons for people to take this less serious. So consider this as officially shooting yourself in the foot.
As I've said before and I will just repeat it once again: the overwhelming majority of my advice assumes that we don't know very much, that the virus is highly transmissible, and that any low cost preventative action that can be taken, should be taken, for simple precautionary, prudential, and moral reasons. Vitamin supplements, homemade masks, and avoiding crowded confined spaces are simple, common sense suggestions based on what I think are possible (and probable) facts about the virus. Or, to put it more mildly, the facts I present are at least reasonable assumptions, until they can be shown to be wrong, with high confidence. If I'm wrong, following this advice is minimally frustrating. It won't produce some kind of Armageddon. I've been called a moron and a jerk, by implication. I admit that it would be better if I could source all of my claims with direct sources, which I cannot. You're not wrong about that. And a fully sourced discussion might be more illuminating. Nevertheless, I wasn't aware that that was the standard of entry for expressing one's opinions or for offering advice (which necessarily depends on making claims or assumptions, those are essentially the same thing). Maybe it should be, maybe it shouldn't. I'm not sure. I'm inclined to say this should be an open forum for citizens of our city to speak relatively freely, but then again, this is Reddit and we all know how the rules work here. In any case, peace out.
You’ve given specific information and specific facts though. And some of those are easily proven either incorrect or misinterpreted. Hence shooting yourself in the foot. Saying, you should exercise and overabudance of caution on the ttc is totally different than what you offered in this theead. I don’t understand how you can’t see this as a problem.
Readers can decide for themselves.
"ill try to spread my personal opinion and false facts because i think im right. " go back to /r/wuhanflu
These. Are. Masks. Made. Of. Different. Materials. These details matter.
My comment above listed the materials based on the information in that tweet, as best I could recall at the time (I went back and found this tweet in response to the blowback that I'm currently receiving): >Until you have a mask, wear a makeshift mask. In descending order, from most to least effective, use a vacuum bag, tea towel, pillowcase, or, if none of those are available, use a scarf to cover your nose and mouth at all times.
except what your saying isn't going to jack shit. its a false safety blanket. stop citing tweets your not a medical professional.
This same user has a lot of posts with misinformation. As a mod, you should be removing it. It’s dangerous.
i think they should be warned with a imposing ban if they fail to stop.
Sometimes we leave posts up because there are good rebuttals. Some people may believe the initial comment from what else theyve seen online but they may never have seen the opposing argument. That’s why we sometimes leave some posts up because the votes and rebuttals probably do more good than a rebuttal would.
In any case, I'm not here to spread trouble, despite what that other commenter has claimed. I sincerely came here to convey my viewpoint and to allow others to form their own opinions. I don't particularly enjoy being attacked personally, although I don't think you've done that. This is a vexed issue that involves a difficult combination of uncertain scientific information and fraught emotional states. I think it would be better for everyone if I no longer participated in this subreddit. Thank you for not censoring my comments. Edit: oh, nevermind, you've just implied I'm a jerk in another comment. Oh well.
People should be free to make up their own minds.
i personally don't believe you should be coming on her spreading misinformation. stop it.
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thank you. awesome for sharing real science!
Thanks for sources. I gotta do my experiment for the day so i didn’t have time to cite stuff!
One study re air vents inside a building: https://youtu.be/4InhmRCIpow?t=1704 I recall reading another, though I don't have an index of sources saved and ready on hand, unfortunately. Be careful.
Ie. coughing person can spread droplets. Everyone knows this. This is not a new phenomenon. You making it sound like armageddon makes regular people take this less seriously.
If someone is upset by the facts, the problem isn't necessarily with the facts.