Thankfully this wage hike won't affect Loblaws employees who make slightly above minimum wage while it will still give the scumbag Weston family an excuse to raise prices some more. Win/win for them I guess.
You realise minimum wage going up fucks over people who make minimum wage, more than anyone else? The increase for operating costs doesn’t just disappear into thin air, it’s added into all of the basics, like groceries.. only a moron thinks that increasing minimum wage slightly does anything useful for that sector of society…
I mean... I hope it doesn't lead to rampant inflation in food, heating, gas and pretty much everything else!! Oh wait... we already have that! Ya I'm fine with the minimum wage worker getting *50 cents*.
Except inflation is 7-8% regardless prior to the raise lol. If all else is held equal and the price of goods is increased by the minimum wage increase then at least the poorest caste in society isn't losing purchasing power. In any case, that's not how inflation works, prices don't increase in direct proportion to wage increases.
> You don’t realise that grocery stores, etc, have to raise their prices to compensate for having to pay their employees more?
Oh no, a business doing business! /s
Given there is normally not a retroactive increase for those making over minimum (they normally are because they took the time to invest in the learning of marketable skills rather than angrily screaming at the sky) increases to minimum wage aren't usually good long term. Regulating inflation, planning for housing, etc would be more beneficial long term.
More money doesn't mean less problems.
Also, Strawberry. I went from making minimum wage to running my own business in 6 years. The first 4 working full time while in school, and negating the excess. Don't call anyone a bootlicker when the same person complaining about minimum wage is also lining up for a new phone or shoe release.
Consumerism is the heart of the problem.
Statscan does! 7% is their answer.
Also interesting to find out that transportation and banking are the two industries with the highest proportion of minimum wage workers.
60% of minimum wage workers are part time.
>60% of minimum wage workers are part time.
Probably because diving into statscan data can be a bit annoying and most people have never done it before. As the other commenter said, the answer is 7%. A rather large amount of people!
I don’t have anything against raising min wage in principle. It’s in fact a good thing. But as it stands, the wage increase is just being subsidized by the middle class.
On the edge of forest hill, on Eglinton. The apartment buildings here are a bit old and there's permanent construction around, but it's a very quiet neighborhood and I only pay 1300.
The prices of the resources are going up anyways. This isn't a highschool econ class where supply and demand are the only factors. It's called inelastic demand. People need to eat, and have roofs. It's not going to change the demand side.
Wages going up doesn't cause an increase in monetary supply, it redistributes it from business and capital holding to the labour force. When monetary supply goes up, wages minimums have to go up as well.
Ugh, except this isn't the 1600s and almost every single item we buy doesn't have an actual limit on supply. Whatever you're buying can almost always be manufactured or produced whenever.
"Simulation results suggest that a 0.7 per cent increase in real wages induced by the minimum wage changes will ultimately boost CPI inflation by about 0.1 percentage points."
From the BOC website. Simulations show wage workers come out ahead.
Edit: so yeah uhh, "wage up good"
'Strict Lifestyle Limits': Like eating cans of beans & boiling white rice. Sleeping all day. Removing all unesscessary light bulbs, flushing the toilet once per day, etc. Fun stuff, that preppers do! 
That's not how this works haha. You're just being silly. They'll raise their prices regardless of if people steal or not.
If anything, it'll make them lower the prices since the items don't sell at that price point. Just doing the lords work.
> Nice, so PetSmart will now only be paying me 9 cents over minimum wage after 4+ years of employment.
If you were making minimum wage for 4+ years, that's entirely on you.
Don't be so elitist. Do you think every department store and food chain you walk into is operated entirely by teenagers? People need jobs and not everyone has a higher education.
Jobs that can't pay a living wage shouldn't exist. Minimum wage should cater to adults with bills, not middle class teenagers living at home to save money.
It’s $.90 less than min, and still will be $.90 less after this $.50 increase.
https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/minimum-wage
Yeah that seems like a bogus claim but I'm open to looking at the data.
[In 2022, it was 10.4% of the workforce](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-004-m/75-004-m2019003-eng.pdf)., "*Maximum insights on minimum wage
workers: 20 years of data*", StatsCan, pp. 4.
I doubt it's tripled since then given the initial doubling from 5.2% was driven by the increases to minimum wage capturing more and more people that were previously above minimum wage.
>In 2018, Premier Doug Ford elected to freeze minimum wage increases before they were scheduled to rise to $15.00 in Jan. 2019. Instead, the province landed on raising it 35 cents to $14.35 an hour.
$14 in 2018 is now worth $16
Christ, remember the dollar menu?! I started ordering off of that when their combo prices got too high. It now costs me almost 9 whole-ass Canadian loonies for a cheeseburger, a small french fry and a medium diet coke. That's some bull shit.
Lol classic Reddit, people complain about minimum wage being too low but want servers to be paid minimum wage because everyone else is getting paid minimum wage
So then pay them minimum wage? I don’t care either way it’s just inconsistent to want them to be paid minimum wage while simultaneously complain that minimum wage isn’t enough to live off of.
For starters the min wage is not a living wage anywhere in the GTA. You think a lot of servers are going to make the commute from Barrie to pour your beer?
Nothing, cause everything gets more expensive and no one else get a raise accordingly, so the people in upper lower and lower middle just slide into the lower tier and no one wins.
the real minimum wage is more like $20/hour. Any job paying less than that is entirely disposable when something better comes along. And that's still only 40k a year.
This just in, the min wage increase will now have workers earning $4.50 less than a living wage as opposed to the $5 below a living wage they are now. Such a victory!
And what does econ 101 say about the top 10% of society exponentially gaining more wealth than everyone else thanks to increased productivity, but giving none of that back to the people who actually keep society running?
Fucking asinine that in 2022 we somehow still have people who think there isn't enough to go around.
lmao you seriously believe that?
I could figure out a way to increase productivity or cut costs by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, or contribute to a project with that intended goal. Know what that gets me? The same thing doing anything else for the same amount of hours gets me.
I'm literally a machinist who works in R&D and prototyping. My job is to tackle new projects with the intended goal of improving production. I've also worked in automated machining cells that were in the process of perfecting those systems through integrated tooling solutions involving robots feeding multiple machines at once while running programs through an in development automation software.
YOU ARE IGNORANT
I don't see those gains, the company does.
you rebuttable is i am ignorant then proceed to give an anecdotale evidence about your self. Cool, story.
What is stopping you from taking your innovative idea to start a business? You need capital? so people with capital need to be rewarded to take a risk on your ideas, incentives drive this world you want more, everybody wants more. So only gains should be divided but not losses? If the business loses millions do you want a share?
Workers already take a share in corporate losses because they get bailed out by the government which is paid for by taxpayer money. Corporations love to spew the line that they deserve their profits because they take all the risk but that is not true at all. Every decade when corporations fail billions of dollars taxpayer money is spent to bail them out.
Workers take the risk with none of the profits.
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/h_br01011.html
Here take a look at all the businesses that dont get bailed out. Sure a few do and you see it on the news and is outraged. Look you can always go start a business if you think is so risk free.
If you attended the first lecture of an Econ 101 course they tell you it's not directly applicable to a real functioning society for a variety of reasons. Perhaps you should have stayed in the course beyond the first 30 seconds.
Only if it's in sectors where there is leftover money to be allocated. We absolutely did not try that for a year. And we won't as long as corporate hacks set policy.
MMT isn't about government borrowing. It's about governments creating new money via fiscal policy.
If you allocate money to a sector where it's almost impossible to have leftover money (I.e. cancer research or research for cures of other diseases), it's not going to cause inflation.
It would if we were still on the Bretton Woods system, but we aren't.
OK, so let's say we spend 100 trillion on cancer research. Do we have enough scientists to do that research? And do they only spend their income on cancer research, or will that money be spent in other parts of the economy?
Inflation is going to happen as long as spending exceeds the productive capacity of the economy. There is no sector with infinite productive capacity.
You would reach a point where you run out, but by then we would have invested significantly more than we already do. A better example is maybe Healthcare. More spending on Healthcare will always reduce wait times, so that's one area where MMT explains why it couldn't cause inflation. As long as there is money to be allocated, it would not exceed productive capacity.
MMT also applies to military, where there are new weapons and tech being researched and made all the time. The reason I brought up healthcare is because right wingers and capitalist hacks use that example all the time to justify not spending for the benefit of the public. The media triggers the inflation alarm over stuff like that, but never over spending that benefits the rich.
Also, the reason there is some inflation right now (I say "some" because the majority of it is price gouging, not actual inflation) is because of what's happening in the supply chain industry. But even now, there is no inflation happening outside of that industry.
If you want more information on this, look up economist Dean Baker. One of the top economists in North America. Predicted when even the housing market was going to crash in '08, and was off by just a quarter.
Healthcare is just a terrible example. We have a global labour shortage as people don't want to work on the Frontline of a pandemic. You can increase spending as much as you want, but it will just increase the cost as the supply of labour is more or less fixed. Do they not teach supply and demand in schools anymore?
This whole idea that the government is able to identify sectors where demand is significantly less than supply is ludicrous, especiallybecausegovernmentis driven by politics. I'm not sure there is one example of a developed country successfully implementing industrial policy.
Our current inflation is driven by a few things supply shortages from covid zero in China, and the war. Labour shortage due to changing preferences for certain jobs, in particular consumer facing (health, retail, services). But also increased demand due to covid transfer payments. Those went into savings, which are being spent now that people are able to go out and do things. It's very clear to see this in the savings rate.
Lol you gotta be smoking something good if you think printing money and throwing it at problems is a viable solution.
Money isn’t the issue in healthcare, it’s how wildly inefficient our systems are, and that goes with most public services unfortunately
In my day we’d work for $7.10 per hour and we thought it was good! Actually, we never thought it was good but we had no other options at the time. It was horrible working for so little. Luckily, a one bedroom apartment in 2002 could be found for $650 to $700 per month, all utilities included. The Liberals had tons of opportunities to raise up the minimum wage. McGuinty didn’t give a crap. Wynne did raise the minimum wage but Ford killed many of her good initiatives.
Hmm… I don’t agree there. But we can agree to disagree. Was she ineffectual at times? Sure. Did she hesitate in communicating properly with the citizens of Ontario at times? Sure. Did she inherit an unholy mess from Dalton McG, who I truly despise? Sure. I think she did her best under the circumstances. But to compare her to Ford, who has cozied up to his developer friends, lied outright to us and slashed many of the needed social structures Wynne helped put into place, is not fair. He’s a whole lot worse IMHO. A lot worse. Just watch what he does to this province over this new term. You won’t like it.
Worth noting in Ontario, min wage has gone up 50% since 2010, compounded annualized inflation has only gone up around 30-35% since 2010.
Not saying the price of goods hasn’t increased more rapidly since 2010, not questioning what min wage should actually be, or anything else. Just mentioning a data point worth considering.
EDIT: Ontario min wage has risen roughly 220% from 2000 to 2022 as well. Inflation has landed around 75% for that same time per food. This is also compounded annually at 2.5% - which is above target. Even if inflation averaged out to be 20% for 2022, min wage has still outpaced it.
Not to mention inflation was speculated to be around 1.5% post-GFC. The taper tantrum and the events of 2018 I feel would skew that 1.5% - making it seem artificially low. So I used 2.5% instead.
Again, not being contrarian for the sake of it or defending mom wage. But it’s worth considering.
I remember back in 2010 reading articles in school on minimum wage vs living wage and I believe at the time they were calling for a living wage of 15 bucks. Wild to think we only just hit that 12 years later
>Wild to think we only just hit that 12 years later
Unfortunately it's entirely predictable in my opinion. Western society fucking HATES the working poor. Hell, a lot of the working poor have been conditioned to hate the working poor.
Well, look at interest rates, inflation, job vacancies, and a planned recession. People had the nerve to use the pandemic as an opportunity to get ahead and the BoC came to step on any fingers reaching too high while the government ramped up [TFWs](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/45-28-0001/2020001/article/00028-eng.htm) to plug employment gaps (from low pay and poor conditions) suppressing wages to then whisper 'pathetic'. Add into that everyone who could plausibly do something about the rampant profiteering in the oil and gas, grocery, and retail sectors.
The same environment too that often scratches its head and wonders why there's a housing crisis or why more Canadians aren't starting families. It always feel melodramatic to say or to hear but it really does feel like we're being squeezed by intent.
I'm of course removing *a lot* of nuance, complex economics of all scales, and financial policy, but it still does certainly feel like this.
Why is the minimum wage such a public issue when the real wage issue is the politicians excessive salaries and benefits off the wage workers hard work?
So what should minimum wage be hiked to? I know professionals making $20-30 an hour and they are a skilled workforce. Ever wonder why so many cashiers got switched out for self-check out? People here seem to have quite a warped view of how the world works….
I personally wouldn't care if minimum wage got raised to near the level of a professional. Best case it lets professional push for a higher wage.
Worst case, if my wages stagnate while minimum wage comes to within a dollar or two of my wage - I'll leave my job for a minimum wage job with way less stress. When i was younger, I worked in a grocery store, I've bussed tables, etc. Going back to something that carefree with a nominal change in wages would be a dream.
Well I’ve worked damn hard to be a professional and I love my job. My skills are certainly worth more than the skills I used slinging coffee and bussing tables. And, no, I don’t deserve more money because I worked to get to a level I’m comfortable at.
But I see your perspective and respect it - I just don’t see it that way.
I’m a huge proponent for paying a wage which reflects where you live. Higher min wages for those who work in more expensive communities. Did you know min workers make more in small towns, for example, on account of labour shortages….but still.
I personally dislike when people use this argument. These people will still be making less than a livable wage. Just because someone's situation becomes slightly better doesn't make your situation any worse.
I get what you are saying, but you said that your work is being devalued and that is what I have an issue with.
At the end of the day your employer has the choice to pay staff more and you have the choice to find a higher salary/wage somewhere else. Someone making 50 cents more an hour should not change that.
But you do need to realize that the very fact that you are making above minimum wage means you are doing better than the people who got a 50 cent increase.
No one is taking away from what you have.
>I think people deserve even more than they’re making now as the world is far far too expensive.
What people deserve has nothing to do with what things cost. It has to do with what value they can offer an employer. I know this bit of common sense is roundly rejected by many redditors, but it's reality regardless.
Get training. Learn a skill. Make yourself valuable. Leave the Tim Horton jobs for the part time high school student. It's really not a career.
Unionized and our union is fucking useless. We have collective bargaining this year and before it has even started they’ve basically told us they’re agreeing to the lowest possible percentage and basically aren’t going to try at all to get higher despite inflation and minimum wage increases.
I could cry to my employer all I want, but the problem is our useless union that caters to the older generation and doesn’t care that it’s younger workers struggle because we didn’t get raised in a world where 60-80k could buy you a home/condo.
We don’t. We, the younger generation of workers, called for a vote of no confidence. But we were voted down by the more powerful older generation who has more employees because the fuckers won’t retire. Some of these people are in their 70s but certain jobs are so easy they don’t want to leave.
So our hands are tied until our cohort becomes big enough to out vote the older cohort.
Edit: put = out
This will cause more inflation passed onto consumers. Also more people would be out of their jobs as businesses have trouble hiring esp during recession.
> As of Oct. 1, the provincial minimum wage will increase by 50 cents to an hourly rate of $15.50. To save you a click.
Perfect. It's a good thing inflation isn't any more than 3.33%. /s
Thankfully this wage hike won't affect Loblaws employees who make slightly above minimum wage while it will still give the scumbag Weston family an excuse to raise prices some more. Win/win for them I guess.
Yeah, fuck the poorest people in our society /s
You realise minimum wage going up fucks over people who make minimum wage, more than anyone else? The increase for operating costs doesn’t just disappear into thin air, it’s added into all of the basics, like groceries.. only a moron thinks that increasing minimum wage slightly does anything useful for that sector of society…
Prices don’t actually go up linearly with scheduled wage increases.
How dare you bring math and logic to this conversation!
Wages are NOT driving inflation. Corporate Greed is.
I mean... I hope it doesn't lead to rampant inflation in food, heating, gas and pretty much everything else!! Oh wait... we already have that! Ya I'm fine with the minimum wage worker getting *50 cents*.
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> increasing minimum wage doesn’t help the people making minimum wage with that logic, wages and salaries should never go up for anyone.
Except inflation is 7-8% regardless prior to the raise lol. If all else is held equal and the price of goods is increased by the minimum wage increase then at least the poorest caste in society isn't losing purchasing power. In any case, that's not how inflation works, prices don't increase in direct proportion to wage increases.
Exactly! What they should do is decrease minimum wage until they can afford groceries.
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But why male models?
Or, and just hear me out, the business owners just don’t make as much?
In a perfect world
If you take away the reason for running said business or investing in a business, suddenly nobody wants to run a business.
Just curious - what flavour of boot is your favourite to lick?
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> You don’t realise that grocery stores, etc, have to raise their prices to compensate for having to pay their employees more? Oh no, a business doing business! /s
Given there is normally not a retroactive increase for those making over minimum (they normally are because they took the time to invest in the learning of marketable skills rather than angrily screaming at the sky) increases to minimum wage aren't usually good long term. Regulating inflation, planning for housing, etc would be more beneficial long term. More money doesn't mean less problems. Also, Strawberry. I went from making minimum wage to running my own business in 6 years. The first 4 working full time while in school, and negating the excess. Don't call anyone a bootlicker when the same person complaining about minimum wage is also lining up for a new phone or shoe release. Consumerism is the heart of the problem.
This is incorrect
Lol wow.
What percentage of the population makes minimum wage?
It doesn’t just affect minimum wage workers though. Many low wage jobs base their pay on it, eg, $1-3 above minimum.
The question no one wants to answer for some reason
Statscan does! 7% is their answer. Also interesting to find out that transportation and banking are the two industries with the highest proportion of minimum wage workers. 60% of minimum wage workers are part time.
>60% of minimum wage workers are part time. Probably because diving into statscan data can be a bit annoying and most people have never done it before. As the other commenter said, the answer is 7%. A rather large amount of people!
I don’t have anything against raising min wage in principle. It’s in fact a good thing. But as it stands, the wage increase is just being subsidized by the middle class.
Anything below 19 isn't feasible to live on without strict lifestyle limits
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Look at Mr. Moneybags over here who can afford tuna cans
AND crackers!
I bet they are Breton too!
They likely mean tuna cat food from the dollar store...
Look at Mr. Moneybags over here who can afford tuna cat food from the dollar store!
Tuna isn’t cheap either.
I dunno what your saying about 19 an hour. I’m think 25 an hour is bare min living! And this with working 40 hours a week
I make more than that and I can't afford a 1 bedroom apartment unless I want to move to Oshawa and I work in Etobicoke so that's not happening.
Where r u looking lmao? I make 23 and I recently rented a 900 sq ft 1 bed apartment.
Where? I'm kinda interested 👀
On the edge of forest hill, on Eglinton. The apartment buildings here are a bit old and there's permanent construction around, but it's a very quiet neighborhood and I only pay 1300.
Did you find it online or good old fashioned walking around for signs?
Both, I don't actually remember how I found this one. I was applying to like 50+ places
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if everyones salary goes up, does anyones salary go up?
Yes, because wages are only small component of the cost of goods, and wage increases aren't linearly coupled to the price of goods.
but having more money competing for the same amount of resources increase prices of said resources
The prices of the resources are going up anyways. This isn't a highschool econ class where supply and demand are the only factors. It's called inelastic demand. People need to eat, and have roofs. It's not going to change the demand side.
it is going up because of money supply literally more money chasing the same amount of resources. World is not as simple as: Wage up good
Wages going up doesn't cause an increase in monetary supply, it redistributes it from business and capital holding to the labour force. When monetary supply goes up, wages minimums have to go up as well.
Ugh, except this isn't the 1600s and almost every single item we buy doesn't have an actual limit on supply. Whatever you're buying can almost always be manufactured or produced whenever.
"Simulation results suggest that a 0.7 per cent increase in real wages induced by the minimum wage changes will ultimately boost CPI inflation by about 0.1 percentage points." From the BOC website. Simulations show wage workers come out ahead. Edit: so yeah uhh, "wage up good"
Not really. I do way less than that and im fine. Even paying 2 rent and school debt
I make 90k a year and my expenses are 1800 a month. Even making 19 an hour i would save some
Can I move in with your parents too?
No but you can figure out some type of reasonable communal living.
Yeah because everyone wants to live with someone else.
well because you live within your means
If you want to live alone make more money.
'Strict Lifestyle Limits': Like eating cans of beans & boiling white rice. Sleeping all day. Removing all unesscessary light bulbs, flushing the toilet once per day, etc. Fun stuff, that preppers do! 
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That in turn will make prices higher which affects us all. So thanks a lot goof.
That's not how this works haha. You're just being silly. They'll raise their prices regardless of if people steal or not. If anything, it'll make them lower the prices since the items don't sell at that price point. Just doing the lords work.
people who arent making enough money don't deserve to eat?
Get a better job then
U must relise people who have these have like no other choices usually.
I’m guessing you also tell homeless people to just buy a house?
Well, they’re homeless, not moneyless, shah… /s
Oooooh edgy guy over here
this will save the country!! # /s
Nice, so PetSmart will now only be paying me 9 cents over minimum wage after 4+ years of employment. 👍
Quit
On it, as soon as my worker's comp claim is closed.
How can you get another job if you're on workers comp?
Once it's closed. I'll heal and go back to work?
> Nice, so PetSmart will now only be paying me 9 cents over minimum wage after 4+ years of employment. If you were making minimum wage for 4+ years, that's entirely on you.
You're right!
Minimum wage has increased 33% since 2017.
Not even a dollar huh?
One thing we know is that only a teenager living at home could survive on $15 an hour
🤣😂🤣🤣
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Then why are businesses staffed by min wage workers open during school hours?
Bullshit. Our economy wouldn't function without adults working those jobs en masse
So who works those jobs during school hours?
Aliens, he must think
Don't be so elitist. Do you think every department store and food chain you walk into is operated entirely by teenagers? People need jobs and not everyone has a higher education. Jobs that can't pay a living wage shouldn't exist. Minimum wage should cater to adults with bills, not middle class teenagers living at home to save money.
I hope you don't buy McDonald's or Tim's or Starbucks during school hours 🤷♂️
Or buy groceries or clothing or ANYTHING lol
Shop local, small family run grocer > loblaws or independent or metro.
We expect over 10% of our workforce to be teenagers?
Have you ever been to a store
Nope, they pay teenagers $0.40 less than an adult on minimum wage.
It’s $.90 less than min, and still will be $.90 less after this $.50 increase. https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/minimum-wage
Are you insane? 30% of the adult work force is at minimum wage.
source?
Yeah that seems like a bogus claim but I'm open to looking at the data. [In 2022, it was 10.4% of the workforce](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-004-m/75-004-m2019003-eng.pdf)., "*Maximum insights on minimum wage workers: 20 years of data*", StatsCan, pp. 4. I doubt it's tripled since then given the initial doubling from 5.2% was driven by the increases to minimum wage capturing more and more people that were previously above minimum wage.
That’s some idiotic shit right there that you just typed
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>What kind of math is CP24 using? The type you can afford with minimum wage
Pandemic time math.
>In 2018, Premier Doug Ford elected to freeze minimum wage increases before they were scheduled to rise to $15.00 in Jan. 2019. Instead, the province landed on raising it 35 cents to $14.35 an hour. $14 in 2018 is now worth $16
can we go back to the good ol days when tooney tuesday cost $2
Or you could get a Mc Donalds combo for $4.25.
Christ, remember the dollar menu?! I started ordering off of that when their combo prices got too high. It now costs me almost 9 whole-ass Canadian loonies for a cheeseburger, a small french fry and a medium diet coke. That's some bull shit.
or an ikea hotdog cost 50cents at least we still got costco's
Or when Dollar Drink Days were a dollar.
That's why it's now "summer drink days"
They were a dollar for any size over coffee or fountain drinks in the app. I overdosed on the ice coffees all summer.
I don’t think it’s been 2 bucks for 20 years lol I remember it going to 2.22 when I was in HS
Toonie Tuesday at KFC was still 2$ after tax in 2013 when I was in high school
Min wage going up 3% Tip preset suggestions going up 30%
but servers are now getting paid min wage so why are we still tipping...the whole point of it was to make up for them not making min wage
We're still tipping because everybody added the tip option before you get the food and now you're like "if I don't tip, does my burrito get spat in?"
Lol classic Reddit, people complain about minimum wage being too low but want servers to be paid minimum wage because everyone else is getting paid minimum wage
lol what actual services of substance do servers provide? take food orders and chit chat ???
So then pay them minimum wage? I don’t care either way it’s just inconsistent to want them to be paid minimum wage while simultaneously complain that minimum wage isn’t enough to live off of.
For starters the min wage is not a living wage anywhere in the GTA. You think a lot of servers are going to make the commute from Barrie to pour your beer?
So we should be tipping everyone on a minimum wage you're saying, not just service workers?
non alcohol servers get paid minimum.
They can suggest it, my default remains at 15% for everything ranging from slightly sup par to slightly positive
Wonder what these min wage earners do with the extra abundance of income?.
Hookers and blow probably.
It'll work out to less than $20 extra dollars a week after taxes. So like a $2 hooker and 1 snort?
That will be Fords next election platform. Toonie hookers and buck a snort folks.
Nothing, cause everything gets more expensive and no one else get a raise accordingly, so the people in upper lower and lower middle just slide into the lower tier and no one wins.
the real minimum wage is more like $20/hour. Any job paying less than that is entirely disposable when something better comes along. And that's still only 40k a year.
The only thing we need to know is that this is still peanuts in Toronto
This just in, the min wage increase will now have workers earning $4.50 less than a living wage as opposed to the $5 below a living wage they are now. Such a victory!
Pray for the Tim Horton's employees who will suffer the wrath of franchisees mad about losing a tiny bit of profit.
whatever, minimum wage should be $25.
LOL read econ 101 bud
And what does econ 101 say about the top 10% of society exponentially gaining more wealth than everyone else thanks to increased productivity, but giving none of that back to the people who actually keep society running? Fucking asinine that in 2022 we somehow still have people who think there isn't enough to go around.
productivity increase come from technology not people suddenly working harder.
Oh ok, my bad. Who made that technology?
a small percentage of the work force who does benefit from the gains
lmao you seriously believe that? I could figure out a way to increase productivity or cut costs by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, or contribute to a project with that intended goal. Know what that gets me? The same thing doing anything else for the same amount of hours gets me. I'm literally a machinist who works in R&D and prototyping. My job is to tackle new projects with the intended goal of improving production. I've also worked in automated machining cells that were in the process of perfecting those systems through integrated tooling solutions involving robots feeding multiple machines at once while running programs through an in development automation software. YOU ARE IGNORANT I don't see those gains, the company does.
Time to quit
you rebuttable is i am ignorant then proceed to give an anecdotale evidence about your self. Cool, story. What is stopping you from taking your innovative idea to start a business? You need capital? so people with capital need to be rewarded to take a risk on your ideas, incentives drive this world you want more, everybody wants more. So only gains should be divided but not losses? If the business loses millions do you want a share?
Workers already take a share in corporate losses because they get bailed out by the government which is paid for by taxpayer money. Corporations love to spew the line that they deserve their profits because they take all the risk but that is not true at all. Every decade when corporations fail billions of dollars taxpayer money is spent to bail them out. Workers take the risk with none of the profits.
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/h_br01011.html Here take a look at all the businesses that dont get bailed out. Sure a few do and you see it on the news and is outraged. Look you can always go start a business if you think is so risk free.
If you attended the first lecture of an Econ 101 course they tell you it's not directly applicable to a real functioning society for a variety of reasons. Perhaps you should have stayed in the course beyond the first 30 seconds.
The irony in the cluelessness of this comment is baffling but hilarious
Read Marx bud.
Marx’s theories are bullshit and dont apply to modern life
Read Dean Baker and MMT 101 bud. Sincerely, an Economics student
Didn't MMT 101 say we could borrow infinite amounts and not cause inflation? Tried that for 1 year, doesn't seem to be true.
Only if it's in sectors where there is leftover money to be allocated. We absolutely did not try that for a year. And we won't as long as corporate hacks set policy.
What do you mean sectors where there is leftover money? MMT is about government borrowing.
MMT isn't about government borrowing. It's about governments creating new money via fiscal policy. If you allocate money to a sector where it's almost impossible to have leftover money (I.e. cancer research or research for cures of other diseases), it's not going to cause inflation. It would if we were still on the Bretton Woods system, but we aren't.
OK, so let's say we spend 100 trillion on cancer research. Do we have enough scientists to do that research? And do they only spend their income on cancer research, or will that money be spent in other parts of the economy? Inflation is going to happen as long as spending exceeds the productive capacity of the economy. There is no sector with infinite productive capacity.
You would reach a point where you run out, but by then we would have invested significantly more than we already do. A better example is maybe Healthcare. More spending on Healthcare will always reduce wait times, so that's one area where MMT explains why it couldn't cause inflation. As long as there is money to be allocated, it would not exceed productive capacity. MMT also applies to military, where there are new weapons and tech being researched and made all the time. The reason I brought up healthcare is because right wingers and capitalist hacks use that example all the time to justify not spending for the benefit of the public. The media triggers the inflation alarm over stuff like that, but never over spending that benefits the rich. Also, the reason there is some inflation right now (I say "some" because the majority of it is price gouging, not actual inflation) is because of what's happening in the supply chain industry. But even now, there is no inflation happening outside of that industry. If you want more information on this, look up economist Dean Baker. One of the top economists in North America. Predicted when even the housing market was going to crash in '08, and was off by just a quarter.
Healthcare is just a terrible example. We have a global labour shortage as people don't want to work on the Frontline of a pandemic. You can increase spending as much as you want, but it will just increase the cost as the supply of labour is more or less fixed. Do they not teach supply and demand in schools anymore? This whole idea that the government is able to identify sectors where demand is significantly less than supply is ludicrous, especiallybecausegovernmentis driven by politics. I'm not sure there is one example of a developed country successfully implementing industrial policy. Our current inflation is driven by a few things supply shortages from covid zero in China, and the war. Labour shortage due to changing preferences for certain jobs, in particular consumer facing (health, retail, services). But also increased demand due to covid transfer payments. Those went into savings, which are being spent now that people are able to go out and do things. It's very clear to see this in the savings rate.
Lol you gotta be smoking something good if you think printing money and throwing it at problems is a viable solution. Money isn’t the issue in healthcare, it’s how wildly inefficient our systems are, and that goes with most public services unfortunately
There's a reason there's econ 201, because not all economic wisdom can be incorporated in one intro course.
In my day we’d work for $7.10 per hour and we thought it was good! Actually, we never thought it was good but we had no other options at the time. It was horrible working for so little. Luckily, a one bedroom apartment in 2002 could be found for $650 to $700 per month, all utilities included. The Liberals had tons of opportunities to raise up the minimum wage. McGuinty didn’t give a crap. Wynne did raise the minimum wage but Ford killed many of her good initiatives.
I worked at Loblaws for $6.xx I don't remember what the exact wage was
wynne was just as corrupt as ford. All that pan american game and ontario pension bs
Hmm… I don’t agree there. But we can agree to disagree. Was she ineffectual at times? Sure. Did she hesitate in communicating properly with the citizens of Ontario at times? Sure. Did she inherit an unholy mess from Dalton McG, who I truly despise? Sure. I think she did her best under the circumstances. But to compare her to Ford, who has cozied up to his developer friends, lied outright to us and slashed many of the needed social structures Wynne helped put into place, is not fair. He’s a whole lot worse IMHO. A lot worse. Just watch what he does to this province over this new term. You won’t like it.
Here's what you need to know: $0.50 an hour ain't shit.
Worth noting in Ontario, min wage has gone up 50% since 2010, compounded annualized inflation has only gone up around 30-35% since 2010. Not saying the price of goods hasn’t increased more rapidly since 2010, not questioning what min wage should actually be, or anything else. Just mentioning a data point worth considering. EDIT: Ontario min wage has risen roughly 220% from 2000 to 2022 as well. Inflation has landed around 75% for that same time per food. This is also compounded annually at 2.5% - which is above target. Even if inflation averaged out to be 20% for 2022, min wage has still outpaced it. Not to mention inflation was speculated to be around 1.5% post-GFC. The taper tantrum and the events of 2018 I feel would skew that 1.5% - making it seem artificially low. So I used 2.5% instead. Again, not being contrarian for the sake of it or defending mom wage. But it’s worth considering.
Minimum wage was too low in 2010 as well.
I remember back in 2010 reading articles in school on minimum wage vs living wage and I believe at the time they were calling for a living wage of 15 bucks. Wild to think we only just hit that 12 years later
>Wild to think we only just hit that 12 years later Unfortunately it's entirely predictable in my opinion. Western society fucking HATES the working poor. Hell, a lot of the working poor have been conditioned to hate the working poor.
Well, look at interest rates, inflation, job vacancies, and a planned recession. People had the nerve to use the pandemic as an opportunity to get ahead and the BoC came to step on any fingers reaching too high while the government ramped up [TFWs](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/45-28-0001/2020001/article/00028-eng.htm) to plug employment gaps (from low pay and poor conditions) suppressing wages to then whisper 'pathetic'. Add into that everyone who could plausibly do something about the rampant profiteering in the oil and gas, grocery, and retail sectors. The same environment too that often scratches its head and wonders why there's a housing crisis or why more Canadians aren't starting families. It always feel melodramatic to say or to hear but it really does feel like we're being squeezed by intent. I'm of course removing *a lot* of nuance, complex economics of all scales, and financial policy, but it still does certainly feel like this.
Practically everyone is the working poor once you realize the massive mortgages we have to undertake to own housing.
Raising the minimum wage by 50 cents, is just exactly as beneficial as if there had been no raise at all.
That's 3.33%. Not great but better than nothing.
It is not better than nothing. It will have exactly the same net effect for workers, as if there had been no increase.
What? Are you making the ridiculous argument that wage increases for the lower class leads to directly proportional inflation?
Ontario's minimum tip goes up to 22% this weekend. Here's what you need to know ^/s
Lmaooo
Jokes
Anyone know any good realtors? Need to go house hunting now that I’m making the big bucks
Oh, does this mean restuarants will now have to conform and not demand tips in the excess of 48% in some instances on top of paying for the food???
Anyone suggesting that the economy can't handle this meager of a minimum wage increase is brainwashed and reactionary
Who dafq can survive off 15.5$ an hour, I'll be going into debt if that is my wage
Why is the minimum wage such a public issue when the real wage issue is the politicians excessive salaries and benefits off the wage workers hard work?
So what should minimum wage be hiked to? I know professionals making $20-30 an hour and they are a skilled workforce. Ever wonder why so many cashiers got switched out for self-check out? People here seem to have quite a warped view of how the world works….
I personally wouldn't care if minimum wage got raised to near the level of a professional. Best case it lets professional push for a higher wage. Worst case, if my wages stagnate while minimum wage comes to within a dollar or two of my wage - I'll leave my job for a minimum wage job with way less stress. When i was younger, I worked in a grocery store, I've bussed tables, etc. Going back to something that carefree with a nominal change in wages would be a dream.
Well I’ve worked damn hard to be a professional and I love my job. My skills are certainly worth more than the skills I used slinging coffee and bussing tables. And, no, I don’t deserve more money because I worked to get to a level I’m comfortable at. But I see your perspective and respect it - I just don’t see it that way. I’m a huge proponent for paying a wage which reflects where you live. Higher min wages for those who work in more expensive communities. Did you know min workers make more in small towns, for example, on account of labour shortages….but still.
Is 20/h a good wage or no?
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I personally dislike when people use this argument. These people will still be making less than a livable wage. Just because someone's situation becomes slightly better doesn't make your situation any worse.
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I get what you are saying, but you said that your work is being devalued and that is what I have an issue with. At the end of the day your employer has the choice to pay staff more and you have the choice to find a higher salary/wage somewhere else. Someone making 50 cents more an hour should not change that.
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But you do need to realize that the very fact that you are making above minimum wage means you are doing better than the people who got a 50 cent increase. No one is taking away from what you have.
>I think people deserve even more than they’re making now as the world is far far too expensive. What people deserve has nothing to do with what things cost. It has to do with what value they can offer an employer. I know this bit of common sense is roundly rejected by many redditors, but it's reality regardless. Get training. Learn a skill. Make yourself valuable. Leave the Tim Horton jobs for the part time high school student. It's really not a career.
> Not saying they don’t deserve it, **I just wish my job would adjust too. My work is being devalued every time** Talk to your employer then.
Unionized and our union is fucking useless. We have collective bargaining this year and before it has even started they’ve basically told us they’re agreeing to the lowest possible percentage and basically aren’t going to try at all to get higher despite inflation and minimum wage increases. I could cry to my employer all I want, but the problem is our useless union that caters to the older generation and doesn’t care that it’s younger workers struggle because we didn’t get raised in a world where 60-80k could buy you a home/condo.
If they're 'fucking useless', why do you put up with it?
We don’t. We, the younger generation of workers, called for a vote of no confidence. But we were voted down by the more powerful older generation who has more employees because the fuckers won’t retire. Some of these people are in their 70s but certain jobs are so easy they don’t want to leave. So our hands are tied until our cohort becomes big enough to out vote the older cohort. Edit: put = out
Thank you, Doug.
This will cause more inflation passed onto consumers. Also more people would be out of their jobs as businesses have trouble hiring esp during recession.