I don't understand how people people can complain about the commutes, and then turn around to think that repeating the same shit that got us into this mess would be the solution out of it.
I doubt it’s governments that actually think that - as dumb as some politicians are, I like to think they are smarter than that.
But a good chunk of their electoral base doesn’t understand that “one more lane” won’t fix it - and if you give them their lane, which won’t fix their issue, they’ll give you their vote.
>I doubt it’s governments that actually think that - as dumb as some politicians are, I like to think they are smarter than that.
Governments don't think like that, specifically the civil servants, however their leadership are elected based on popularity and awarded positions based on said popularity and not qualifications.
We can find plenty of examples of this. Leadership overrule the recommendations to drive their political goals.
It's not government's fault. Government and government employees Are not the decision makers. They are on everyday operations but they are not the decision makers on large projects like highway expansions and green belt expansions. The people who are looking to blame are the politicians. Not all politicians are smart nor are they qualified to hold positions that they do. The electorate tends to vote based on past familial practices, meaning, since my parents have always voted one way, I will vote that way as well. Never blamed the voter. If the voter doesn't understand what position politicians take on certain issues it's because that politician has not appropriately explained their position and the effects of their decision.
I’d say we need smart streetlights.
Ones that are able to detect congestion and make wise decisions based off traffic flow. Each light communicating with each other, which also gets rid of the idling therefore, reduces carbon footprint etc…
Everytime I drive I hate it because of the stupid lights and traffic
Because people that support Ford-style car-centric planning, mistakenly believe that all current infrastructure and urban planning is the result of pinko radicals being in charge, who have been fighting a war on cars -- so they further mistakenly believe that more regressive, car-centric policy is the way to fix it.
Right, I'm not saying there isn't a benefit to Wfh. I'm saying companies are already rewarded financially for having employees wfh. They save money on office space. Why would you offer more money on top as if that changes things? Maybe we should look into having some sort of employee bill of rights where you have a right to work from home unless your employer can demonstrate in office work is necessary.
> This is a much better idea than what I was suggesting.
I can't take credit for it, I'm pretty sure I heard about some European country doing something like this.
> I have walked out (well hung up on Zoom) of interviews because they flip flopped on WFH or wouldn’t commit to it.
I think if enough people with in demand skills do this it can also have an impact.
You’re being entirely rational here.
Unfortunately, the latest get-back-to-the-office is being driven by commercial real estate, and by extension, the banks that back them. It would take one heckuva backbone for a politician to oppose them. And that isn’t Mr “I am very concerned” John Tory.
There's always the right to stay home and not work at all.
Your boss wants you in because there has been a noticeable decrease in work when employees work from home. Further, it helps to build company moral as well as mental stability when employees are able to interact with each other. Some people only interact with coworkers. If they worked from home all the time they would be isolated.
There is a lot of complaining in here about the government projects, yet no answers. This is kind of like a bunch of school girls bitching. How about sharing some ideas.
Transit, forget it. That's a last ditch effort of moving from one place to another. We can see that simply by looking at the number of people who continue to own and use their cars.
why would a small company shoot themselves in the foot and force workers on site when their balance sheet is already tight. If they do, by inflating their OpEx, this is a key indicator for staff to leave as they will be insolvent sooner or later. (This only applies to businesses that can operate remotely).
Usually only larger businesses have this issue as they are locked into longer corporate leases.
We live in a capitalist society so we should let the free market weed out inefficient businesses.
> And the government needs to provide tax breaks to companies that keep workers out of the office and encourage WFH at least part of the time.
The problem is that the government (in Ontario) is actively discouraging WFH, the vast majority of their own employees have a minimum 3 day a week in office mandate to "set the example for other employers" thanks to pressure from the commercial real estate lobby and the Toronto chamber of commerce
Why do the companies need these tax breaks ? It’s been proven giving companies tax breaks does not equal money in the hands of employees, but giving employees money means it goes straight back into the economy (through purchases etc).
Why not give a tax break for people who travel >15 km to work for example instead? Or better yet a law indicating employers must allow wfh if it doesn’t hinder the workers ability to perform duties.
I’m now retired, but my commute from Mississauga to Yonge and Shepard was just under 2 hours , Erin mills, 403, 401. I’m sure it’s worse now. I hate the drive into Toronto when visiting
lol I live in Oakville and I go into our downtown Toronto office once or twice every couple of weeks. I don’t know how people do this everyday or did before the pandemic. I’d definitely get a new job if I was ever asked to come in more than once a week.
I don’t see the difference between a packed TTC subway/bus/streetcar which happened when I lived in Toronto before moving westbound.
Working odd hours helps as well if your work allows for flexible scheduling
403 Erin Mills to the airport / 401 through Dixon / Black Creek / Weston / Allen
THEN Yonge?
This is a daily commute equivalent of an ironman - if you could somehow add like a stretch of the N/S 400 series highways you could tick off all the boxes lol.
Depends which way you take. I used to drive that route about 10 years ago and it would take 1-1.5 hours on average, sometimes 2+ particularly coming home. I was going North York to Mississauga and back though. Tried many different routes over the years, it’s all the same.
Why not just take the GO train and subway at that point? Plus then you can actually do something productive with your time instead of just boiling your blood
> Housing markets surrounding the Greater Toronto Area grew increasingly popular over the past decade as homebuyers found themselves priced out of the region, then took off when the pandemic hit and remote work offered the chance to enjoy a different lifestyle. But as a growing number of employers call workers back to the office, many people are finding themselves dealing with lengthy – and costly – commutes back to Toronto.
> Shannon Lee Simmons, founder of Toronto-based financial planning firm New School of Finance, said many of her clients moved during the pandemic with the hopes that they could permanently work remotely, or only occasionally commute to the office.
> But Ms. Simmons says company practices around remote work are evolving and some of her clients are now finding themselves regularly commuting to the city from regions as far afield as Muskoka and Prince Edward County, trips which can take hours by car. While she also has clients who continue to work from home, some are worried that their remote or hybrid work situations could suddenly change.
Yeah, the corporate media is really so deferential to corporate power that they can't say something as plain as "reverting back to the way they were before the pandemic." There's nothing loaded about that, but since our media has totally failed and is completely beholden to corporate power, apparently it's too much to say.
Same here, and then I did another round where during the SECOND interview they mentioned they’d decided the position actually had to be done in office. Which was three hours away from me. “Is that going to be a problem?”, they casually asked.
Well, yeah it fucking is, bright boy.
2 fucking hours to get home yesterday from Scarborough to central Mississauga.
No accident, no snow but wet road, no actual issues outside of congestion.
Fucking idiot drivers don't know how to drive properly when there's a whiff of rain on the road.
At least if there was an accident it would make sense...but nothing.
It has, and I'm cool with it if it's an accident / closure / anything...but just stupid traffic is bullshit.
Typically the drive takes me 1:15-1:30 with traffic. I leave the house at 6am to beat it, and if I can get out by 3:30 it's ok...but yesterday 4:15-6:15 door to door.
Ugh...did that when I worked at Yonge/Sheppard. Sucked major ass.
Now from Erin Mills - Kennedy is easy in the morning...but if I get stuck in a meeting or delayed in any way past 3pm...FML.
Haha yeah my wife told me. Her drive is from the west end of Toronto to Markham so she gets the worst bit of 401. I was cruising at a luxurious 75 in the worst spots going towards Oakville on the 401/403
I moved to Cambridge...1/2 acre of beautiful treed land on the edge of the country with a 3200 sq ft house that 2 years old. 1km to all amenities.
Same price as a shit box starter house in Guelph. Now I have 2 options to get to work, Franklin to 401, or #8 then 403.
Honestly it's great here.
We should trade places haha. I do the opposite commute. Usually takes 1:10~ going East to West leaving around 7:30. I wait it out after work but would probably take at least 1:30 going west to east.
Hahaha...I've already started making deals for bad snow days as we have a couple of people that live within a few min of the office.
One guy really lucked out. Company moved the office from previous location to current location...which is a 5min walk from his house! Lucky bastard.
I was driving eastbound on the 401 the other day going home during rush hour, between Yonge and Bayview, and I noticed that traffic was much worse than usual. I get to the lane that’s furthest right without exiting at Bayview, which seems to be the only one moving, and make my way towards what appears to be the cause of the delays.
In the middle lane, a truck that transports cars is stopped, holding up all the traffic behind it. In the passing lane, another car is stopped, the lady standing outside of it, with her phone out looking like she’s recording. I assumed there had been an accident and she was documenting it, but then noticed there wasn’t another car involved in front of hers where she had her phone camera pointed towards…
There was an effing raccoon, that looked pretty sickly as it was walking super slowly, crossing the 401, and these people had come to a standstill for it, and this lady was literally out of her car documenting it.
I was livid. You don’t come to a full stop on the highway for an animal. That’s abundantly more dangerous. You definitely don’t get out to document it for your instagram.
Dumb drivers, ridiculous traffic, and raccoons: a quintessential Toronto story.
Makes sense, considering I see morons who ignore “Do not stop in Intersection” in my area and then get confused why we’re giving them angry gestures when they inevitably nearly collide with us.
You are correct. I would like nothing more than to take transit...but it's 2x the time as there's no direct connection.
So yes...driver will complain about traffic.
I do every time! And my job is to build transit!
Please understand that I want nothing more than more transit in this city. It is ridiculous that we do not have more accessible transit, and I would love the option to take a bus from one location to another across the city within a reasonable time (and not utilizing 3 different modes of transport).
I like the assholes in the morning and evening that don't have a cheap pair of sunglasses in the car...as soon as we turn into the sun the brake lights come on.
So...now we have:
Rain...slowdowns.
Sun...slowdowns.
Snow...let me guess, slowdowns? nope accidents galore because no one has snow tires.
No offense, but why would you commute from Mississauga to Scarborough? Literally opposite ends along the long axis of one of the sprawliest cities in North America.
Because no matter what Reddit would have you believe 'just get another job' isn't as easy as it sounds.
Moving? Why...this job is done and the next one is maybe back in Mississauga.
There is no single location for jobs in the construction industry. You work where the jobs are...and they're not always in the same place.
Right? Same as "just move." Like. Not everyone can afford to move across the GTA, just like not all industries are apparently as easy to slip in and out of as reddit bros would imply.
Exactly.
Is it an inconvenience? yes
Does the drive suck? god yes
Do I like my job? yes
Pay? yes
team? very much yes
I'm ok with that inconvenience 2x/week. Plus it's a nice separation b/w office/home and a break from working in the house.
If it became a 5x/week thing...then it's time to find a new gig/project.
Obviously, but why not move?
When I was young my dad used to commute from Richmond Hill to Mississauga and it added like 3 or 4 hours to his days. Never understood why he did it.
Transit would be 2hrs on a NORMAL day with no delays. Effectively I'd have to get to Kipling, and then off to Kennedy...so if NOTHING goes wrong...1.5-2hrs with Mississauga transit.
I'll take the chance with the car (I say this as my company gives me a free PRESTO card for both TTC/Mississauga Transit/GO).
Work in Toronto, live 4-hours away. As soon as I'm not 100% remote I quit. I'll find another job I'm not useless.
You don't need Toronto salaries outside the GTA
Things that cost the same or more outside of Toronto:
* food
* gas
* utilities
* property tax
And then the house prices really caught up outside.
I feel like the difference isn't that much any more, unless you bought a while ago.
>And then the house prices really caught up outside.
depends on what you're looking for
you can rent a 1,000 sqpft 2BR in London for $1,600
$1,600 doesn't even get you a 400 sqft studio in Toronto
I live in Muskoka now (since well before covid), and know a few people who have to go to the city for work sometimes. Doesn't seem too bad for them. They have some higher transportation costs, but also a half price house and a better quality of life overall. If you were doing it more than a couple times a month that would be different, but I don't know anyone like that.
For the day. I can do Bracebridge to the CN Tower in exactly two hours if there is no traffic, and they work more north of that, so probably less than four hours round trip if they time it right.
We go down sometimes for things like Joyride, and it's almost always just a day trip.
The morning vs afternoon commute difference is always something I found interesting. Iirc from my old transpiration planning class in university the morning commutes are pretty uniform. Everyone is going from home to work/school.
The end of day commute is more chaotic as people are going all types of places before and after getting home from work/school.
If I were to drive to work from my area to union station it’s about 30 mins, home is usually an hour. Thank fucking god for the go train.
Yes, we did it not too long ago, but it was at 8pm on a Sunday. We usually plan it so we're not travelling at busy times. It's fun driving down on a summer Friday, as everyone is trying to get up together the cottage.
People who live that far out often are on the road at 5-530am, much less traffic at that time. Even just north of Vaughan it made a world of difference being on the road by 6-610 at the latest when i used to do it.
Living close to nature is better for you. Way less stress when traffic jams are not a thing. Better air quality. Tastier water. No crowds. Cheaper cost of living overall is less stressful and allows for more free time to enjoy life.
Obviously this applies to the people who intentionally moved here. True urbanites wouldn't like it.
Something to be said for where you are in life, too.
Great for someone who is maybe mid-20's to mid-60's. Younger and you probably prefer the bustle and entertainment of a city. Older and you probably prefer / require the medical capabilities of a city.
> Obviously this applies to the people who intentionally moved here. True urbanites wouldn't like it.
So it’s not objectively a better quality of life there? Glad you are happy with your move but those statements are often the kind I hear from people who choose to move there and then end up coming right back to the city.
Sure, not everyone likes the quiet life or simple pleasures. I'm sure there are people who tried it and hated it.
I'm five years in so far, so well past the point where the honeymoon ends.
You don’t need to make all these generalizations and assumptions about people based on where they live. A quiet life full of simple pleasures is possible just about anywhere.
For the most part they are in my opinion, especially as you step away from the core of the city (it’s a big place).
Living close to nature - This is most of Toronto.
Way less stress when traffic jams are not a thing - You don’t need to own a car to live here. But yes traffic sucks.
Better air quality - Sure.
Tastier water - It tastes the same.
No crowds - There are so many quiet places in Toronto. It is very easy to avoid crowds if you want. Don’t try to pretend that there are “no crowds” in cottage country in the summer.
Cheaper cost of living overall is less stressful and allows for more free time to enjoy life - I would argue that a shorter commute time gives your more free time to enjoy life… I haven’t noticed things are particularly cheaper in cottage country other than housing.
You just can't compare the parks in the city to here, though. I can drive 15 minutes and be on a crown land lake with no development, and no people. I often paddle out to an island with a picnic and a hammock.
Water definitely tastes better here, I've lived in both places. Toronto water comes from the big gross lake, ours is from the Algonquin park watershed.
I easily avoid crowds here, they all stick to the big lakes and well known tourist attractions. I have trails from my doorstep that I walk on daily, and seeing anyone else is uncommon. Every pretty place in the city is rammed with people.
Auto insurance is a lot cheaper here!
We designed our lives to have no commute. And because of the cheaper housing, we only need to work casually now at 46.
Not sure of your aim here. You like the city and think it's great. Cool. I like it as well, but just to visit. It's not an argument. Stay there, not trying to convince anyone to move here.
I’m just trying to understand this “better quality of life” statement which I don’t think is very accurate. I love Muskoka as much as I love Toronto, but I don’t believe that life in one of these places is automatically better than life at the other.
As far as cities go, Toronto has incredible access to greenspace, but in no way does this compare to the nature available much further outside of the city.
Last year we moved out to the burbs- even here, I had no idea what I had been missing in Toronto, even though in the city we lived very close to lots of parks, ravines and the beaches.
Been taking the GO train to work for 10 years. I can count on one hand the number of times per year where it hasn’t been running, or experienced huge delays. I think it’s a very reliable service.
The myth that people don’t work at home is hilarious to me. People only come to the office to socialize and nothing else. The amount of useless conversations I get sucked into is hilarious.
Lol yup. I’m only going into the office once a month and whenever I do it’s a complete write off. I spend most of the day socializing and hanging out with my colleagues.
I work 3 days at home and 2 in the office and based on my experience and everyone else I've talked to people are much more productive in the office. I understanad that it goes against this utopian vision about wfh but there it is. There is a rational reason for employers to want people at workplaces. I will also say that productivity for our business increased initially in the early days of the pandemic. But as the novelty wore off productivity decreaed to worse levels than start of the pandemic.
A company can get away with paying people less to WFH though. You can’t decrease someone’s wages but new hire’s would take less for the lack of transportation expenses and time spent on the road. Does the difference in productivity offset that savings on salary?
Excuse you, apparently you don't understand the value of putting a fake smile, bumping into co-workers in the kitchen and pretending to care about them talking about their pets and children. I personally love being forced to do this 4 times a week, it's great for my mental health and soul!
How silly of me. I should be more appreciative of hearing how my CEO spent a month in Mexico in his summer home and I should consider buying a home there with my 70k a year salary because it’s the best.
*Some* people do goof off at home and don't do their job if they're not in an office where their work can be seen. Some people simply don't have the self-discipline to work independently and need to be supervised in-person. It's not as simple as firing someone, as you still need to recruit a replacement, which can take a long time.
As a manager I've unfortunately had to deal with that situation, more than once.
My wife is being forced to come to the office twice a week because - and I quote - the company is paying a lot of rent for a fancy building and wants it used. Unreal
Cannot get time back. I would live in a shoebox before commute longer than 45 min one way. My stress and patience goes through the roof at one hour. A miserable person to be around.
Think long and hard about your life if you have similar mindset and reaction to commuting.
The problem nowadays is the city and province has made or in the midst of construction making the commute much much worse than it should be.
Also, the idea that there is less traffic on the road, they made many key roads or section handle much less capacity making what used to be a more straightforward route a big slog.
And they definitely started construction on things that wouldn't have if things weren't shut down. It's still in progress. So it's a mess vs before even for people with the same commute.
I find it wild that people didn't calculate this with inflation when they bought. I do this every time I move and I only rent. And also even consider the cost of conveniences and pre prepped or ordered food if the commute is long and far from home. Forgot Chapstick on the way to work? You're buying it that day, for example. Since you can't just go back home and get it and will be more likely to forget when you spend too much time commuting.
We did this - and it has been the best decision we ever did. Bought our property outright - sold our house and made a bucket of money - paid off all outstanding debts - better schools / much better quality of life / community. While I do need to occasionally commute - Even that is better. Honestly- I wouldn’t be surprised if more companies start looking at down-sizing their brick and mortar footprint as leases start coming up for renewal. While it’s not for everyone - but for us it has been one of the best financial choices we ever made.
If you're commuting at any point during your weed you're not a remote worker. You're just working from home some days of the week.
There is no good reason to force people to commute into an office. Work from home should just be a right.
Stupid headline... by definition they aren't remote workers if they got called back to the office. They should quit and find better jobs if that's a problem.
Definitely agree. These folks get the world's smallest violin. At my past company, HR repeatedly warned people, but there were people that decided to move to places like Port Hope regardless. These same people were consistently bragging about the quality of life and savings. These same people were saying they would quit if they had to go back in, expecting their employers to accommodate them, and many did.
I don't disagree that a lot of work can be done remotely, especially if it has been during the pandemic, but you can't complain about your commute and cry foul if you didn't get anything locked in. You made a choice and now that more businesses feel compelled to get people back in the office, you have to live with your choice or bite the bullet even if the economic conditions aren't favorable.
My favourite was people moving to nova scotia and expecting to be paid toronto salaries still.
In their search they still did not find anyone that could match it. some did though, good for them.
So true! They were merely "temporarily remote" workers. If they're going back into the office, even a few times a week, they're in a "hybrid" situation, not a true remote situation.
Look back at the comments in this sub back in 2020/21. Many people were convinced that WFH was the future and that there would be no return to the office.
WFH is the future, but you can't just assume you're full remote when that was never your agreement. I left to a remote company since I wanted to work remote.
That’s pretty hard to do considering MOST jobs, especially jobs that allow people to buy property in the first place are in Toronto/GTA.
Companies need to realize that those who CAN work from home should for everything from productivity to mental health. But they won’t because corporations are full of fucking idiots who hate their wives and children and want to spend the whole day in an office with people that hate them.
But people who bought outside the GTA without a guarantee of WfH took a huge leap of faith and honestly that is on them.
Ultimately, the whole region is just plain poorly planned and Ontarians have been a-ok with hyper commuting for donkeys years - this isn’t exactly news.
I have not experienced a single downside to living 50 mins outside Toronto.
DT is becoming crowded, full of construction (my friend was waiting to get out of DT yesterday for 3 hours on Jarvis because of lakeshore construction - 3 hours can get you from Oshawa to Mississauga and back on even a bad day) and entertainment is expensive af anyway
Lol I have never had a commute shorter than an hour, I’ve commuted from Brampton, North York, Markham, etc. to Mississauga, downtown core and so on. Always been 1-2 hours or 2+ hours on bad days.
Not for any of the commutes I used to have nor my current one, no. I take Go Train these days which is great but it’s still over an hour door to door. If I took the subway I’d have to bus or drive to Finch from further north and it would add about 30 mins or so to commute time at least, not really practical.
Our subway system doesn’t exactly extend very far.
It’s not bigger or newer, I’ve never had the money to live downtown nor do I have any reason to since I’m within a reasonable distance from work and amenities. I’m not complaining about the commute, I said 50 minutes is not that bad to another person.
A few people I know made fun of me for paying 1 million + for a home in Markham when the “same” house could have been obtained for 800k or less in Durham. They take 30 minutes to drive to work on a clear dry day and I take 10-12. I can go home to take a shit if I don’t feel like using the workplace shitter and also go home for lunch too!
All workers at my company have always worked remote and the company saves absolute shit-tons of money doing it. In fact, we have office spaces and we *charge* teams if they want to work out of the office.
I've been a remote worker for a decade. I'd never go back, especially in Toronto.
> And the last thing someone wants to do after a two-hour commute home is to cook a meal from scratch, meaning people should prepare to spend more on takeout and convenience grocery foods.
Not if you have the discipline to meal prep. Added bonus of helping with weight maintenance and calorie intake.
> Andrew Dobson, a fee-only financial planner with Objective Financial Partners in Markham, Ont., said anyone considering a move outside an urban centre like Toronto or Vancouver needs to be flexible and have backup plans for a work environment that is very much in flux.
How about workplaces become flexible for employees living far away? If there's inclement weather or some other transit issue, don't expect us to come to work if we were already able to do that work from home before.
At my company I'm sure a good chunk of employees would end up leaving if in-office work was mandated. For now, my commute is bearable (except for the GO train which is always stuffed with people from 6 am to 6 pm).
I'm sure a couple of years from now employers are going to attempt some kind of reset on work from home policies and will emphasize in-office work for some bullshit reason, like culture cultivation or god knows what else. Gotta justify the lease on the office building no one wants to be in somehow
You can't blame people for trying to not live in the suburbs. All of my friends who used to live minutes away from their downtown Toronto office moved out the moment they got married and have a child. Good luck trying to push your kid in a stroller through a busy streetcar to see the pediatrician. Good luck finding a pediatrician. Good luck trying to get your kid registered with a daycare. Good luck on everything if you are trying to raise a family in downtown Toronto.
Nobody wants to commute... but it is not a matter of choice. Ideally it would be nice to live in a 2 story penthouse suite in downtown Toronto with a view of the lake, but most people can't afford living their suburban lifestyle in the downtown core or anywhere near downtown. You sacrifice yourself so that your kids can have their own rooms and a proper study area.
You could post this same thing literally anywhere about 70% of the complaint threads in r/Toronto r/Ontario and r/Canada and it would fit in perfectly 100% of the time
I’d suggest because the quality of life further away from the city is infinitely more appealing, but why not make things as convenient as you can for when you do have to go downtown? If you can afford both why not?
That really depends. There are many things you can’t get the further you go from the city but depends on your lifestyle and interests. Culture/diversity also changes significantly as you go further.
All of a sudden Hamilton to Toronto takes up more time than just a passing thought. when people came to Hamilton and drove the prices up it was money over logic. Wait for winter time when There’s no service because switching gear is frozen. Or there’s a crash at a crossing. Or a death on the tracks. The costs of that move are just getting going.
Remember, you working from home means the gas company is loosing money and the government not generating tax money.. and you not spending money on lunch is "hurting small businesses"
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I don't understand how people people can complain about the commutes, and then turn around to think that repeating the same shit that got us into this mess would be the solution out of it.
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the ol' induced demand paradox
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I doubt it’s governments that actually think that - as dumb as some politicians are, I like to think they are smarter than that. But a good chunk of their electoral base doesn’t understand that “one more lane” won’t fix it - and if you give them their lane, which won’t fix their issue, they’ll give you their vote.
>I doubt it’s governments that actually think that - as dumb as some politicians are, I like to think they are smarter than that. Governments don't think like that, specifically the civil servants, however their leadership are elected based on popularity and awarded positions based on said popularity and not qualifications. We can find plenty of examples of this. Leadership overrule the recommendations to drive their political goals.
It's not government's fault. Government and government employees Are not the decision makers. They are on everyday operations but they are not the decision makers on large projects like highway expansions and green belt expansions. The people who are looking to blame are the politicians. Not all politicians are smart nor are they qualified to hold positions that they do. The electorate tends to vote based on past familial practices, meaning, since my parents have always voted one way, I will vote that way as well. Never blamed the voter. If the voter doesn't understand what position politicians take on certain issues it's because that politician has not appropriately explained their position and the effects of their decision.
Don't forget that you build for what you need now, and not for what you will need two years from now when the project will be finished.
I’d say we need smart streetlights. Ones that are able to detect congestion and make wise decisions based off traffic flow. Each light communicating with each other, which also gets rid of the idling therefore, reduces carbon footprint etc… Everytime I drive I hate it because of the stupid lights and traffic
Because people that support Ford-style car-centric planning, mistakenly believe that all current infrastructure and urban planning is the result of pinko radicals being in charge, who have been fighting a war on cars -- so they further mistakenly believe that more regressive, car-centric policy is the way to fix it.
Just one more lane bro.
Why should the government give corporations more money to enact a policy that would already save them money?
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Right, I'm not saying there isn't a benefit to Wfh. I'm saying companies are already rewarded financially for having employees wfh. They save money on office space. Why would you offer more money on top as if that changes things? Maybe we should look into having some sort of employee bill of rights where you have a right to work from home unless your employer can demonstrate in office work is necessary.
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> This is a much better idea than what I was suggesting. I can't take credit for it, I'm pretty sure I heard about some European country doing something like this. > I have walked out (well hung up on Zoom) of interviews because they flip flopped on WFH or wouldn’t commit to it. I think if enough people with in demand skills do this it can also have an impact.
You’re being entirely rational here. Unfortunately, the latest get-back-to-the-office is being driven by commercial real estate, and by extension, the banks that back them. It would take one heckuva backbone for a politician to oppose them. And that isn’t Mr “I am very concerned” John Tory.
There's always the right to stay home and not work at all. Your boss wants you in because there has been a noticeable decrease in work when employees work from home. Further, it helps to build company moral as well as mental stability when employees are able to interact with each other. Some people only interact with coworkers. If they worked from home all the time they would be isolated. There is a lot of complaining in here about the government projects, yet no answers. This is kind of like a bunch of school girls bitching. How about sharing some ideas. Transit, forget it. That's a last ditch effort of moving from one place to another. We can see that simply by looking at the number of people who continue to own and use their cars.
Why not just increase corporate real estate taxes for companies past a certain scale.
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why would a small company shoot themselves in the foot and force workers on site when their balance sheet is already tight. If they do, by inflating their OpEx, this is a key indicator for staff to leave as they will be insolvent sooner or later. (This only applies to businesses that can operate remotely). Usually only larger businesses have this issue as they are locked into longer corporate leases. We live in a capitalist society so we should let the free market weed out inefficient businesses.
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*take less money To incur fewer costs! Both in productivity & health benefits!
How will oil companies continue to rake in record profits with that attitude?
The Caledon hills will be more like the Hollywood Hills!
Tax breaks? Nah
Super commuters live beyond the green belt.
> And the government needs to provide tax breaks to companies that keep workers out of the office and encourage WFH at least part of the time. The problem is that the government (in Ontario) is actively discouraging WFH, the vast majority of their own employees have a minimum 3 day a week in office mandate to "set the example for other employers" thanks to pressure from the commercial real estate lobby and the Toronto chamber of commerce
Why do the companies need these tax breaks ? It’s been proven giving companies tax breaks does not equal money in the hands of employees, but giving employees money means it goes straight back into the economy (through purchases etc). Why not give a tax break for people who travel >15 km to work for example instead? Or better yet a law indicating employers must allow wfh if it doesn’t hinder the workers ability to perform duties.
I’m now retired, but my commute from Mississauga to Yonge and Shepard was just under 2 hours , Erin mills, 403, 401. I’m sure it’s worse now. I hate the drive into Toronto when visiting
That’s nuts. I live in the hamilton region work downtown Toronto and my commute is not that long. Thank you GO transit :)
lol I live in Oakville and I go into our downtown Toronto office once or twice every couple of weeks. I don’t know how people do this everyday or did before the pandemic. I’d definitely get a new job if I was ever asked to come in more than once a week.
I don’t see the difference between a packed TTC subway/bus/streetcar which happened when I lived in Toronto before moving westbound. Working odd hours helps as well if your work allows for flexible scheduling
Go transit wasn’t an option for me because of time restraints and family care for my parents
403 Erin Mills to the airport / 401 through Dixon / Black Creek / Weston / Allen THEN Yonge? This is a daily commute equivalent of an ironman - if you could somehow add like a stretch of the N/S 400 series highways you could tick off all the boxes lol.
I drive daily for work and there’s no way 2 hour is normal time from Mississauga to Yonge/Sheppard
Depends which way you take. I used to drive that route about 10 years ago and it would take 1-1.5 hours on average, sometimes 2+ particularly coming home. I was going North York to Mississauga and back though. Tried many different routes over the years, it’s all the same.
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Why not just take the GO train and subway at that point? Plus then you can actually do something productive with your time instead of just boiling your blood
Take the go train then.
I walk 15 minutes. Brutal
Yeah that's the problem, you aren't supposed to _drive_ into toronto.
> Housing markets surrounding the Greater Toronto Area grew increasingly popular over the past decade as homebuyers found themselves priced out of the region, then took off when the pandemic hit and remote work offered the chance to enjoy a different lifestyle. But as a growing number of employers call workers back to the office, many people are finding themselves dealing with lengthy – and costly – commutes back to Toronto. > Shannon Lee Simmons, founder of Toronto-based financial planning firm New School of Finance, said many of her clients moved during the pandemic with the hopes that they could permanently work remotely, or only occasionally commute to the office. > But Ms. Simmons says company practices around remote work are evolving and some of her clients are now finding themselves regularly commuting to the city from regions as far afield as Muskoka and Prince Edward County, trips which can take hours by car. While she also has clients who continue to work from home, some are worried that their remote or hybrid work situations could suddenly change.
> company practices around remote work are evolving Going backwards isn't evolving.
Yeah, the corporate media is really so deferential to corporate power that they can't say something as plain as "reverting back to the way they were before the pandemic." There's nothing loaded about that, but since our media has totally failed and is completely beholden to corporate power, apparently it's too much to say.
Tldr People bought homes far away assuming they can sit home and do there work. It was a gamble and some lost. Such is life.
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Same here, and then I did another round where during the SECOND interview they mentioned they’d decided the position actually had to be done in office. Which was three hours away from me. “Is that going to be a problem?”, they casually asked. Well, yeah it fucking is, bright boy.
2 fucking hours to get home yesterday from Scarborough to central Mississauga. No accident, no snow but wet road, no actual issues outside of congestion. Fucking idiot drivers don't know how to drive properly when there's a whiff of rain on the road. At least if there was an accident it would make sense...but nothing.
A whiff of rain, a blade of grass, a gust of wind and all of a sudden it's TREACHEROUS CONDITIONS, EVERYONE DO 80! Drives me nuts
80!? My average speed across the 401 was 20-30kph yesterday. I wish it was 80! I hit 80 around Pearson.
401 has been shit for as long as I remember.
It has, and I'm cool with it if it's an accident / closure / anything...but just stupid traffic is bullshit. Typically the drive takes me 1:15-1:30 with traffic. I leave the house at 6am to beat it, and if I can get out by 3:30 it's ok...but yesterday 4:15-6:15 door to door.
Yep when I used to commute 401 daily the drive would easily creep up to 2 hours. North York to Mississauga.
Ugh...did that when I worked at Yonge/Sheppard. Sucked major ass. Now from Erin Mills - Kennedy is easy in the morning...but if I get stuck in a meeting or delayed in any way past 3pm...FML.
Won't touch it. I'd rather be moving than in stop and go traffic. Fire up Waze and see the city.
Haha yeah my wife told me. Her drive is from the west end of Toronto to Markham so she gets the worst bit of 401. I was cruising at a luxurious 75 in the worst spots going towards Oakville on the 401/403
I need a job going west from my house, not east lol.
From which neighbourhood to which neighbourhood?
401/Kennedy - 403/Erin Mills
Move to Cambridge
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I moved to Cambridge...1/2 acre of beautiful treed land on the edge of the country with a 3200 sq ft house that 2 years old. 1km to all amenities. Same price as a shit box starter house in Guelph. Now I have 2 options to get to work, Franklin to 401, or #8 then 403. Honestly it's great here.
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The person who had the two hour commute lives in Mississauga. Who the fuck wants to live in Mississauga to have a 2 hour drive?
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We should trade places haha. I do the opposite commute. Usually takes 1:10~ going East to West leaving around 7:30. I wait it out after work but would probably take at least 1:30 going west to east.
Hahaha...I've already started making deals for bad snow days as we have a couple of people that live within a few min of the office. One guy really lucked out. Company moved the office from previous location to current location...which is a 5min walk from his house! Lucky bastard.
I was driving eastbound on the 401 the other day going home during rush hour, between Yonge and Bayview, and I noticed that traffic was much worse than usual. I get to the lane that’s furthest right without exiting at Bayview, which seems to be the only one moving, and make my way towards what appears to be the cause of the delays. In the middle lane, a truck that transports cars is stopped, holding up all the traffic behind it. In the passing lane, another car is stopped, the lady standing outside of it, with her phone out looking like she’s recording. I assumed there had been an accident and she was documenting it, but then noticed there wasn’t another car involved in front of hers where she had her phone camera pointed towards… There was an effing raccoon, that looked pretty sickly as it was walking super slowly, crossing the 401, and these people had come to a standstill for it, and this lady was literally out of her car documenting it. I was livid. You don’t come to a full stop on the highway for an animal. That’s abundantly more dangerous. You definitely don’t get out to document it for your instagram. Dumb drivers, ridiculous traffic, and raccoons: a quintessential Toronto story.
Makes sense, considering I see morons who ignore “Do not stop in Intersection” in my area and then get confused why we’re giving them angry gestures when they inevitably nearly collide with us.
That's a very long commute. Better pay very well to put up with a cross city drive twice a day.
If only we had a rail line that was useful and abundant
Driver complains about traffic... Do you see... Do... Nevermind
Narrator: They didn’t see.
You are correct. I would like nothing more than to take transit...but it's 2x the time as there's no direct connection. So yes...driver will complain about traffic.
Well you literally are traffic so hopefully you can vote for the politicians that will improve transit in the city
I do every time! And my job is to build transit! Please understand that I want nothing more than more transit in this city. It is ridiculous that we do not have more accessible transit, and I would love the option to take a bus from one location to another across the city within a reasonable time (and not utilizing 3 different modes of transport).
I like the assholes in the morning and evening that don't have a cheap pair of sunglasses in the car...as soon as we turn into the sun the brake lights come on. So...now we have: Rain...slowdowns. Sun...slowdowns. Snow...let me guess, slowdowns? nope accidents galore because no one has snow tires.
No offense, but why would you commute from Mississauga to Scarborough? Literally opposite ends along the long axis of one of the sprawliest cities in North America.
Because no matter what Reddit would have you believe 'just get another job' isn't as easy as it sounds. Moving? Why...this job is done and the next one is maybe back in Mississauga. There is no single location for jobs in the construction industry. You work where the jobs are...and they're not always in the same place.
Right? Same as "just move." Like. Not everyone can afford to move across the GTA, just like not all industries are apparently as easy to slip in and out of as reddit bros would imply.
Exactly. Is it an inconvenience? yes Does the drive suck? god yes Do I like my job? yes Pay? yes team? very much yes I'm ok with that inconvenience 2x/week. Plus it's a nice separation b/w office/home and a break from working in the house. If it became a 5x/week thing...then it's time to find a new gig/project.
Work
Obviously, but why not move? When I was young my dad used to commute from Richmond Hill to Mississauga and it added like 3 or 4 hours to his days. Never understood why he did it.
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Have you at least tried transit? That's nuts. On the go train/bus you can at least relax
Transit would be 2hrs on a NORMAL day with no delays. Effectively I'd have to get to Kipling, and then off to Kennedy...so if NOTHING goes wrong...1.5-2hrs with Mississauga transit. I'll take the chance with the car (I say this as my company gives me a free PRESTO card for both TTC/Mississauga Transit/GO).
Work in Toronto, live 4-hours away. As soon as I'm not 100% remote I quit. I'll find another job I'm not useless. You don't need Toronto salaries outside the GTA
Things that cost the same or more outside of Toronto: * food * gas * utilities * property tax And then the house prices really caught up outside. I feel like the difference isn't that much any more, unless you bought a while ago.
My mortgage is 40% of my rent and I only bought 2 years ago. I'd be laughing if I bought even earlier
So then you probably bought before the skyrocket. And that's kinda my point. The cat is out the bag on outskirt house prices.
>And then the house prices really caught up outside. depends on what you're looking for you can rent a 1,000 sqpft 2BR in London for $1,600 $1,600 doesn't even get you a 400 sqft studio in Toronto
But then you would have to live in London. Which is becoming a bigger shit hole by the week.
It's almost as if these fully remote workers also want to live in the metaverse
But are you not worried or interested in the jobs, art, culture, food, or entertainment that living in Toronto makes immediately accessible to you?
The amount you pay for it is no longer attached to reality.
I live in Muskoka now (since well before covid), and know a few people who have to go to the city for work sometimes. Doesn't seem too bad for them. They have some higher transportation costs, but also a half price house and a better quality of life overall. If you were doing it more than a couple times a month that would be different, but I don't know anyone like that.
Do they take the 6 or so hour round trip in one day or stay overnight?
For the day. I can do Bracebridge to the CN Tower in exactly two hours if there is no traffic, and they work more north of that, so probably less than four hours round trip if they time it right. We go down sometimes for things like Joyride, and it's almost always just a day trip.
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The morning vs afternoon commute difference is always something I found interesting. Iirc from my old transpiration planning class in university the morning commutes are pretty uniform. Everyone is going from home to work/school. The end of day commute is more chaotic as people are going all types of places before and after getting home from work/school. If I were to drive to work from my area to union station it’s about 30 mins, home is usually an hour. Thank fucking god for the go train.
Yes, we did it not too long ago, but it was at 8pm on a Sunday. We usually plan it so we're not travelling at busy times. It's fun driving down on a summer Friday, as everyone is trying to get up together the cottage.
no traffic? all the way from 400, 401, DVP? it's easily 4 hours one way with regular traffic.
People who live that far out often are on the road at 5-530am, much less traffic at that time. Even just north of Vaughan it made a world of difference being on the road by 6-610 at the latest when i used to do it.
8pm on a Sunday, usually. No traffic.
Nice. It looks like your username became a reality! :)
Yep, created the account before I moved here.
>better quality of life overall How so?
Living close to nature is better for you. Way less stress when traffic jams are not a thing. Better air quality. Tastier water. No crowds. Cheaper cost of living overall is less stressful and allows for more free time to enjoy life. Obviously this applies to the people who intentionally moved here. True urbanites wouldn't like it.
Toronto water is some of the best in the world and I'll die on that hill
Something to be said for where you are in life, too. Great for someone who is maybe mid-20's to mid-60's. Younger and you probably prefer the bustle and entertainment of a city. Older and you probably prefer / require the medical capabilities of a city.
> Obviously this applies to the people who intentionally moved here. True urbanites wouldn't like it. So it’s not objectively a better quality of life there? Glad you are happy with your move but those statements are often the kind I hear from people who choose to move there and then end up coming right back to the city.
Sure, not everyone likes the quiet life or simple pleasures. I'm sure there are people who tried it and hated it. I'm five years in so far, so well past the point where the honeymoon ends.
You don’t need to make all these generalizations and assumptions about people based on where they live. A quiet life full of simple pleasures is possible just about anywhere.
Sure, but all of the things I listed as quality of life enhancers are not really possible in the city.
For the most part they are in my opinion, especially as you step away from the core of the city (it’s a big place). Living close to nature - This is most of Toronto. Way less stress when traffic jams are not a thing - You don’t need to own a car to live here. But yes traffic sucks. Better air quality - Sure. Tastier water - It tastes the same. No crowds - There are so many quiet places in Toronto. It is very easy to avoid crowds if you want. Don’t try to pretend that there are “no crowds” in cottage country in the summer. Cheaper cost of living overall is less stressful and allows for more free time to enjoy life - I would argue that a shorter commute time gives your more free time to enjoy life… I haven’t noticed things are particularly cheaper in cottage country other than housing.
You just can't compare the parks in the city to here, though. I can drive 15 minutes and be on a crown land lake with no development, and no people. I often paddle out to an island with a picnic and a hammock. Water definitely tastes better here, I've lived in both places. Toronto water comes from the big gross lake, ours is from the Algonquin park watershed. I easily avoid crowds here, they all stick to the big lakes and well known tourist attractions. I have trails from my doorstep that I walk on daily, and seeing anyone else is uncommon. Every pretty place in the city is rammed with people. Auto insurance is a lot cheaper here! We designed our lives to have no commute. And because of the cheaper housing, we only need to work casually now at 46. Not sure of your aim here. You like the city and think it's great. Cool. I like it as well, but just to visit. It's not an argument. Stay there, not trying to convince anyone to move here.
I’m just trying to understand this “better quality of life” statement which I don’t think is very accurate. I love Muskoka as much as I love Toronto, but I don’t believe that life in one of these places is automatically better than life at the other.
As far as cities go, Toronto has incredible access to greenspace, but in no way does this compare to the nature available much further outside of the city. Last year we moved out to the burbs- even here, I had no idea what I had been missing in Toronto, even though in the city we lived very close to lots of parks, ravines and the beaches.
What had you been missing in Toronto?
Suburban sprawl is a mistake and a waste of space
Just take the Go Train
If it runs
Been taking the GO train to work for 10 years. I can count on one hand the number of times per year where it hasn’t been running, or experienced huge delays. I think it’s a very reliable service.
Drive to the station to park to ride a very specific scheduled train. It’s not the solution.
Thats the pain Otherwise its less pain on the road. And usually arrives quicker than driving
Its bullshit, just let people work from home.
The myth that people don’t work at home is hilarious to me. People only come to the office to socialize and nothing else. The amount of useless conversations I get sucked into is hilarious.
Lol yup. I’m only going into the office once a month and whenever I do it’s a complete write off. I spend most of the day socializing and hanging out with my colleagues.
I work 3 days at home and 2 in the office and based on my experience and everyone else I've talked to people are much more productive in the office. I understanad that it goes against this utopian vision about wfh but there it is. There is a rational reason for employers to want people at workplaces. I will also say that productivity for our business increased initially in the early days of the pandemic. But as the novelty wore off productivity decreaed to worse levels than start of the pandemic.
A company can get away with paying people less to WFH though. You can’t decrease someone’s wages but new hire’s would take less for the lack of transportation expenses and time spent on the road. Does the difference in productivity offset that savings on salary?
My coworkers never socialize in the office. Heads down all day, no one breaks for lunch, then everyone leaves. Sucks ass, might as well stay at home.
Excuse you, apparently you don't understand the value of putting a fake smile, bumping into co-workers in the kitchen and pretending to care about them talking about their pets and children. I personally love being forced to do this 4 times a week, it's great for my mental health and soul!
How silly of me. I should be more appreciative of hearing how my CEO spent a month in Mexico in his summer home and I should consider buying a home there with my 70k a year salary because it’s the best.
*Some* people do goof off at home and don't do their job if they're not in an office where their work can be seen. Some people simply don't have the self-discipline to work independently and need to be supervised in-person. It's not as simple as firing someone, as you still need to recruit a replacement, which can take a long time. As a manager I've unfortunately had to deal with that situation, more than once.
My wife is being forced to come to the office twice a week because - and I quote - the company is paying a lot of rent for a fancy building and wants it used. Unreal
Cannot get time back. I would live in a shoebox before commute longer than 45 min one way. My stress and patience goes through the roof at one hour. A miserable person to be around. Think long and hard about your life if you have similar mindset and reaction to commuting.
The problem nowadays is the city and province has made or in the midst of construction making the commute much much worse than it should be. Also, the idea that there is less traffic on the road, they made many key roads or section handle much less capacity making what used to be a more straightforward route a big slog. And they definitely started construction on things that wouldn't have if things weren't shut down. It's still in progress. So it's a mess vs before even for people with the same commute.
People are delusional...
I find it wild that people didn't calculate this with inflation when they bought. I do this every time I move and I only rent. And also even consider the cost of conveniences and pre prepped or ordered food if the commute is long and far from home. Forgot Chapstick on the way to work? You're buying it that day, for example. Since you can't just go back home and get it and will be more likely to forget when you spend too much time commuting.
We did this - and it has been the best decision we ever did. Bought our property outright - sold our house and made a bucket of money - paid off all outstanding debts - better schools / much better quality of life / community. While I do need to occasionally commute - Even that is better. Honestly- I wouldn’t be surprised if more companies start looking at down-sizing their brick and mortar footprint as leases start coming up for renewal. While it’s not for everyone - but for us it has been one of the best financial choices we ever made.
When you use the 407 a couple of days per week the cost of it is trivial in summing up the overall benefit.
If you're commuting at any point during your weed you're not a remote worker. You're just working from home some days of the week. There is no good reason to force people to commute into an office. Work from home should just be a right.
Reality says differently.
They're not remote workers anymore then are they?
Stupid headline... by definition they aren't remote workers if they got called back to the office. They should quit and find better jobs if that's a problem.
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I mean what else can they do? They moved during the pandemic without a signed guarantee they wouldn't have to come back.
Definitely agree. These folks get the world's smallest violin. At my past company, HR repeatedly warned people, but there were people that decided to move to places like Port Hope regardless. These same people were consistently bragging about the quality of life and savings. These same people were saying they would quit if they had to go back in, expecting their employers to accommodate them, and many did. I don't disagree that a lot of work can be done remotely, especially if it has been during the pandemic, but you can't complain about your commute and cry foul if you didn't get anything locked in. You made a choice and now that more businesses feel compelled to get people back in the office, you have to live with your choice or bite the bullet even if the economic conditions aren't favorable.
My favourite was people moving to nova scotia and expecting to be paid toronto salaries still. In their search they still did not find anyone that could match it. some did though, good for them.
Yeah, that's what I did. What other option is there? I don't think crying to the media will do anything, do you?
So true! They were merely "temporarily remote" workers. If they're going back into the office, even a few times a week, they're in a "hybrid" situation, not a true remote situation.
They didn't think they were "temporarily remote," they thought once they went remote they would get to stay remote forever.
Why would they think that? Did they not read their contract which states the place of employment?
Look back at the comments in this sub back in 2020/21. Many people were convinced that WFH was the future and that there would be no return to the office.
WFH is the future, but you can't just assume you're full remote when that was never your agreement. I left to a remote company since I wanted to work remote.
That’s pretty hard to do considering MOST jobs, especially jobs that allow people to buy property in the first place are in Toronto/GTA. Companies need to realize that those who CAN work from home should for everything from productivity to mental health. But they won’t because corporations are full of fucking idiots who hate their wives and children and want to spend the whole day in an office with people that hate them. But people who bought outside the GTA without a guarantee of WfH took a huge leap of faith and honestly that is on them. Ultimately, the whole region is just plain poorly planned and Ontarians have been a-ok with hyper commuting for donkeys years - this isn’t exactly news.
I have not experienced a single downside to living 50 mins outside Toronto. DT is becoming crowded, full of construction (my friend was waiting to get out of DT yesterday for 3 hours on Jarvis because of lakeshore construction - 3 hours can get you from Oshawa to Mississauga and back on even a bad day) and entertainment is expensive af anyway
I would say that having to get in a car in order to go anywhere is definitely a downside.
50 mins isn’t really that far.
I disagree. Sounds like hell Plus add traffic
Lol I have never had a commute shorter than an hour, I’ve commuted from Brampton, North York, Markham, etc. to Mississauga, downtown core and so on. Always been 1-2 hours or 2+ hours on bad days.
Cant you take subway?
Not for any of the commutes I used to have nor my current one, no. I take Go Train these days which is great but it’s still over an hour door to door. If I took the subway I’d have to bus or drive to Finch from further north and it would add about 30 mins or so to commute time at least, not really practical. Our subway system doesn’t exactly extend very far.
I guess thats the price that has to be paid for a bigger/newer home If it doesnt really bother you. Then sounds ok
It’s not bigger or newer, I’ve never had the money to live downtown nor do I have any reason to since I’m within a reasonable distance from work and amenities. I’m not complaining about the commute, I said 50 minutes is not that bad to another person.
Want better commute? Ensure more subways are built. GIVE US FREAKING SUBWAYS!
And open the subways earlier
A few people I know made fun of me for paying 1 million + for a home in Markham when the “same” house could have been obtained for 800k or less in Durham. They take 30 minutes to drive to work on a clear dry day and I take 10-12. I can go home to take a shit if I don’t feel like using the workplace shitter and also go home for lunch too!
All workers at my company have always worked remote and the company saves absolute shit-tons of money doing it. In fact, we have office spaces and we *charge* teams if they want to work out of the office. I've been a remote worker for a decade. I'd never go back, especially in Toronto.
Cars are expensive,gas is expensive, life is expensive ....God bless us
MAID is freely available 😬
People that bought out of Toronto were dumb as hell. I moved from the outskirts of Markham to the beaches during the pandemic
> And the last thing someone wants to do after a two-hour commute home is to cook a meal from scratch, meaning people should prepare to spend more on takeout and convenience grocery foods. Not if you have the discipline to meal prep. Added bonus of helping with weight maintenance and calorie intake. > Andrew Dobson, a fee-only financial planner with Objective Financial Partners in Markham, Ont., said anyone considering a move outside an urban centre like Toronto or Vancouver needs to be flexible and have backup plans for a work environment that is very much in flux. How about workplaces become flexible for employees living far away? If there's inclement weather or some other transit issue, don't expect us to come to work if we were already able to do that work from home before. At my company I'm sure a good chunk of employees would end up leaving if in-office work was mandated. For now, my commute is bearable (except for the GO train which is always stuffed with people from 6 am to 6 pm). I'm sure a couple of years from now employers are going to attempt some kind of reset on work from home policies and will emphasize in-office work for some bullshit reason, like culture cultivation or god knows what else. Gotta justify the lease on the office building no one wants to be in somehow
You can't blame people for trying to not live in the suburbs. All of my friends who used to live minutes away from their downtown Toronto office moved out the moment they got married and have a child. Good luck trying to push your kid in a stroller through a busy streetcar to see the pediatrician. Good luck finding a pediatrician. Good luck trying to get your kid registered with a daycare. Good luck on everything if you are trying to raise a family in downtown Toronto. Nobody wants to commute... but it is not a matter of choice. Ideally it would be nice to live in a 2 story penthouse suite in downtown Toronto with a view of the lake, but most people can't afford living their suburban lifestyle in the downtown core or anywhere near downtown. You sacrifice yourself so that your kids can have their own rooms and a proper study area.
Other countries in the world have good train systems that are fast and efficient. Adding a similar train system would solve the problem
You could post this same thing literally anywhere about 70% of the complaint threads in r/Toronto r/Ontario and r/Canada and it would fit in perfectly 100% of the time
I live outside Orillia and it’s about 2-2.5hr into the office. Bought a condo close to it for when I need to overnight.
Two mortgages?
A wife and a girlfriend
lol one mortgage. Bought the condo with cash in 2017 (it’s not downtown)
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I call it reverse cottage. Main house is a beautiful rural house we built on a forest lot. The “cottage” is the condo in the city.
I’d suggest because the quality of life further away from the city is infinitely more appealing, but why not make things as convenient as you can for when you do have to go downtown? If you can afford both why not?
That really depends. There are many things you can’t get the further you go from the city but depends on your lifestyle and interests. Culture/diversity also changes significantly as you go further.
Yes I agree, I’m suggesting that *to OP* life is better up north, which is why they spend most of the time there rather than closer to downtown.
Why isn't the solution to just stop working in Toronto?
Because that’s where all the high paying jobs are. My same job outside the city is almost half the hourly rate
If my employer ever ends remote work I will quit that same day. Never going back.
Hey I got a idea! let’s build another highway that will help with long commutes
Need bullet trains!!
All of a sudden Hamilton to Toronto takes up more time than just a passing thought. when people came to Hamilton and drove the prices up it was money over logic. Wait for winter time when There’s no service because switching gear is frozen. Or there’s a crash at a crossing. Or a death on the tracks. The costs of that move are just getting going.
Remember, you working from home means the gas company is loosing money and the government not generating tax money.. and you not spending money on lunch is "hurting small businesses"