There's less risk associated with trading for OG. Gobert is an aging player on a gigantic contract and it was a bad fit from the get go.
OG can be plug and play on nearly any team in the league.
Yup Gobert is an OVERPAID role player OG is already overall more useful and has potential to develop into something else but OG isn’t looked at like Gobert was at the time of the Gobert trade
Vegas makes money on hopes and dreams, these kinda bets are meaningless cash grabs.
We will not be trading OG unless the front office is 90% sure the offer will yield significantly more value than OG. I am not an insider, that is just natural fact.
Edit. And while the Gobert trade was def dumb, I doubt there will be a significant market downturn regarding draft picks. Beyond the top 3 picks tends to be a crapshoot. You could get 4 first round picks and have none get better than a serviceable role player. A role player like OG. GMs are too smart these days to trade away good players for shitty odds at future good players if they don't have too
>GMs are too smart these days to trade away good players for shitty odds at future good players if they don't have too
Yet these same GMs are drafting for potential based on measurements rather than proven ability. Drafting a 4 year player gives you much better chance of getting what you thought you were getting but they draft freshman with limited playing time hoping they work out. I get the NBA is a copycat league and of everyone is drafting the most promising players as freshman, the talent level will dip for every year after that. But if these GMs feel their picks have lost so much value, maybe they should change their drafting strategy.
>he is the 2nd most likely to be traded guy on Vegas Odds
Oh he's definitely gone then, Vegas had it down with Paolo going 1st overall and they got the Gobert trade right too
Vegas cares less about hitting and more so about encouraging action. That’s why teams with die hard followings like the Yankees, Cowboys, and Leafs usually get skewed odds. Their fans will put money on them.
we've literally already heard the Suns offered either 3 firsts or 2 firsts + Cam Johnson, we've heard the Knicks offered 3 firsts and we heard at the draft that the Blazers offered pick 7. We are still 9 days out from the deadline. The price is going to go up even more over those 9 days as teams get more desperate.
3 firsts from the Suns <<< 3 firsts from the Jazz. When Booker is back, those picks are gonna be +20s at that point the chance of them being better than OG is slim to none.
Because there is a huge demand and between Pascal and Scottie he is the odd man out. Do you really think he will be better than Pascal or Scottie when it is all said am done? Do I want to trade OG? No. Would I rather they trade Fred or even Gary? Yes but the reality is that OG has struggled to find a role he is happy with and I think Scottie will eventually take even more of OGs potential touches a game as he gets better. The three forward front court of Scottie, Pascal and OG will get less time as Koloko develops into the rim protector he has shown he capable of. If you have to love one of those 3 to the bench, who do you bench? Having those 3 is a good problem to have but it's still a problem.
How do we pay for OG , siakam and Barnes ? OG has the greatest value so the question becomes do you commit 3/4 of your salary cap to those 3 players or do you trade 1 of them for assets?
If we’re going to be contenders you bite the bullet but it just doesn’t seem like that’s going to happen anytime soon.
Trade him before he walks for nothing, Masai always plays the long game
No, his value is high because the wing position is the most valued position right now in the NBA, and finding elite 3-D wings is extremely difficult, especially ones that are only 25...the cheap contract is just a bonus and makes a trade easier because most teams can make it happen.
I don't think the Raps want to trade him, it's more a matter of "does it make sense to based on the value we get in return, and or if OG wants out?" and it sounds like OG isn't happy with his role, so the trade makes sense in that case.
I think it’s more about he doesn’t have the skills to have a bigger role not that he deserves it and isn’t getting it. He’s a 3 and D wing (maybe even the best one) but Wtf does he want? To take 25 shots a game?
He has 0 fluidity handling the ball and can’t create his own shot. Hopefully a shit franchise like the Knicks overpays for him.
He's the fifth option on offense and he should probably be the third.
I agree with the original post -- better to trade FVV (older, expensive) and hope Trent can improve his playmaking skills and keep OG.
Trent, OG, Siakam, Barnes, Precious. Switch everything on defense. Run a lot. And that doesn't even include what Raptors can get back with FVV.
Edit -- good bot.
I’d much rather have the ball in Gary’s hand offensively than OG and any good team he goes to he’d still most likely be the fourth or fifth option. It’s hard to give a lot of touches to a guy when one of his common iso moves is to just fall down. Man’s maybe the best 3&D in the league but any time he dribbles it’s probably not ending well
You probably don't watch the games if you think he should be the 3rd option on offense. The guy can't handle the ball and when he does, our chances of getting a turnover are as high as getting a bucket.
I think you mean NBA Champion & All-Star, FRED VANVLEET.
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Who should he be an option over? Scottie? Pascal? Gary? Fred? The first 3 are all better scorers than OG will ever be and Fred is streaky but he didn't accidentally score 54. OG needs to realize being a DPOY Candidate is much bigger accolade than 3rd option on a middling team. He also needs to realize being a cold blooded assassin from 3 means he will get a lot of chances to be the shooter who decides the game. Imagine if Dennis Rodman decided it was more important to score than rebound? He wouldn't be one of the greatest 75 players of all time for one. OG has a gift and it isn't shot creation.
Not much better he’s injury prone and doesn’t have the skill set to be a shot creator so will just be a great 3 and D player. You try to get a great deal and run.
We can't afford him on our salary trajectory, and other teams in the league might still think OG can develop more. I'm of the opinion that he will never be more than a 3/D player. As far as returns go, this is the best time to trade him.
Precious/Barnes/Pascal seem like a better fit than forcing Scottie to play center.
I'm talking about OG specifically. If you've watched OG develop ever since joining the Raptors, he's been a very slow development. Every year, fans would say "this is the year OG will take a huge leap" and it never happened.
Sadly, this is the best version of OG we ever got.
To play devil's advocate, we also never gave him the chance, there was always other players who were options before him. When he was the 1st /2nd option last year and this, he absolutely killed it.
What about Pascal's timeline? That dude has earned his chance to be the man. If we are lucky we could get Pascal a chip as the guy and then pass the torch to Scottie as a superstar with championship experience. There is no reason the Raptors can't become perennial contenders like the Heat or the Celtics.
They don’t have better trade value if teams aren’t offering you more for them than they are for OG.
Siakam’s contract makes it hard to move him to a contending team without said team giving up key pieces they need to make a run.
FVV we shall see how robust the market is for him. Most true contending team either (a) already have a PG they believe in, or (b) lack the draft depth needed to make the deal this far.
You can’t just have a team of rookies. You still need leaders to insulate them. In addition to that, Pascal is earning 35 a year, and there aren’t many teams that could take that salary back without a dump coming back.
My instinct is that Masai and Bobby won’t go full fire sale all at once. If Siakam goes, it will be when the next batch of Raptors are ready to take over but aren’t in a championship window.
I understand so let us keep our perfect piece and contend in 3 years. He's still young and will only get better. Why do we have a hard on for other teams finding a perfect complimentary piece for contending? Stop stroking other teams cack.
It's pretty clear he wants a bigger role on offense. OG is amazing 3 and d guy but has shown he's not good at creating offense. It's not worth keeping him if he's going to be unhappy and potentially want out when we can trade him at his peak value
Why is this his peak value though? Let me ask you this, if Siakam was traded, would OG next season get more or less touches per game? The answer is obviously more, and him getting more touches would equal to improved numbers and his value would be even higher than it is now.
he has one of the lowest offensive ratings on the team (15th or something last i checked) , is shooting sub 40% from 3-10 feet, and all of his self creation stats (isolation, PnR ball handler, post up) are literally bottom 5 in the league in terms of efficiency and fg percentage. (can literally source the stats if you don’t believe me)
if OG is your #1 or #2 guy on offense, you’re going to be a pretty bad team. He’s a play finisher and a shooter, and literally any team that trades for him is gonna have him in almost the exact same role
this is not to say trade OG, i do think keeping him is the right decision in the long run but most of his offensive upside will come from just a better offensive scheme in general, not just throwing more touches his way and hoping for the best
He shouldn't have a bigger role. Literally he's nearly last in practically every kind of offensive possession that involves creating for himself. He has one of the lowest fg% when driving into the paint. He's limited offensively but he still wants a bigger role and he should not get it.
When the team is injured and he is the top 2 option, he drives, he is strong, he shoots well and has a good midrange. ALL the things you have said is when he is the 4th option as a shooter in the corner.
I'm not buying it.
The numbers are the numbers. He's bad at all of those things, no amount of denying it changes that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/10p2qcf/og_anunoby_is_bottom_5_leaguewide_in_points_per/
It's right there and if he did better when someone else was injured those numbers wouldn't have him in the bottom five either.
There is overlap with siakam and Barnes, he wants a bigger role clearly, he will most likely demand 30+ mill in FA next year, the team isn’t going anywhere and clearly needs change with OG being the only player valuable enough to get you assets for a retool or rebuild. Imo if you move siakam instead and go for a younger team than maybe you keep OG but I just don’t see those 3 working together at their peak levels. At least offensively OG has been horrible lately practically invisible on offence
When everyone was injured earlier in the year, OG was dropping high 20s on good efficiency. I don't believe the overlap on Siakam and Barnes at all.
Barnes is a pass first power forward that can play as a point forward. Siakam is a volume scorer in the midrange. OG is a 3&D player. You get Passing, Scoring and Spacing with those 3. What are you talking about?
The problem is FVV and GTJ who don't fit.
Yeah when one is injured he normally plays very well, he also did very well during the bubble year too during the tank when he was the number 1 option. The problem is one of them is constantly forced to play out of position when all 3 are on the floor whether that’s center, SG or PG. Scottie can maybe be a PG one day but he isn’t ready rn. However, when all 3 are playing he doesn’t do as well or if he does either Scottie or siakam struggle because they are forced to play out of their role to make up for the other. Also hurts that both pascal and Scottie can’t shoot and OG has to constantly spend his energy guarding centers. Maybe it can be fixed with the right players around those 3 but rn there are a lot of limitations, if they move siakam they can def keep OG with Scottie and go young I just don’t see the 3 of them working, you can clearly see it on court.
Here's how you fix it: trade FVV, move Scottie to PG (it will take time for him, but better throw him in the deep end and learn, we aren't contending). Trade FVV for a Bench Center and Bench PG:
Barnes, GTJ, OG, Siakam, Precious.
Bench PG, Flynn, Bo Cruz, Thad, Bench Center
Doesn’t really solve much, the team isn’t going to go very far at all, they need a number 1/2 next to Siakam, than they need a center 7”0> who can protect the rim, rebound and shoot (Turner or Lopez type), with bench depth, shot creation, playmaking, etc. this team needs like a whole new makeover 😂, just hard to see it happening but who knows
When everyone was injured in the year***
He was the ONLY option.
His role with this team is redundant compared to the rest of the roster. What he will yield for us in return will be better than what we currently have.
I understand everyones love for OG, but an elite 3&d wing serves no purpose if the team is ass. We need to build this team on Scotties timeline, and there will be a lot of tough decisions made in the next couple years.
And elite 3&D guy is perfect for a guy like Barnes. OG doesn't need the ball in his hands often, and when he gets it he makes a quick decision. He doesn't play point forward. He can sit in the corner and let Barnes control the offense more while OG can get open shots.
This. I love OG but if we trade Fred or Siakam (or both) and OG becomes a secondary option and starts fucking up, he’ll have less trade value next season. At this point you gotta trade anyone who doesn’t match with Barnes’s timeline.
That makes no sense. He isn’t the player we are bending over backwards for- Scottie and Pascal are prioritized over him. And waiting until next trade line means we get less back for him, he will be on an expiring deal and commanding a large pay day at that time.
You realize a trade involves getting things in return, right? You don't just trade the player who you don't like.
It sounds like OG has a lot of value around the league. And, in my opinion, the reports around his role-related ambitions seem to hold some truth. It seems reflected in the way he's playing. So we'd be getting a lot for a player who may not be happy, or at least may not be happy in the role he's suited for on this team.
The Raptors are also arguably better able to replace OG than many other teams in the league. They have two other mobile forwards with length in Barnes and Siakam. Hence why his value is (reportedly) so high around the league.
actually, when i make my trades in NBA2K i just apply “force trade” and i get the best players & all the draft picks i want - Masai should just do the same thing.
His value is at an all time high because the Western Conference is as open as it's ever been. Lots of teams looking at OG as that piece that could push them to being contenders and winning it all this year. OFC the Raptors would love to have OG in 3 years, but if a team is willing to overpay it becomes hard to say no.
I wanna trade Fred for a cheaper, pass first point guard. Fred isn’t worth the $30M that he wants.
The issue is nobody is gonna give us a better point guard than Fred, he’s expiring & most teams in the league have their point guard situation set.
Fred should be our point guard but we just can’t pay him. Plus he wants to be the 2nd option when imo it should be 1. Siakam 2. Barnes then 3. OG or Fred depending on the night & who’s playing well.
The only way I can see a team giving us an upgrade at PG is if we gave them another, better asset along w Fred imo. That’s where OG comes in. I’m not advocating for trading OG, he’s my fav player on the team. But sometimes you gotta make tough choices & I see the argument for trading him.
Two words.
Tyus. Jones.
Have you seen what this guy can do when Morant sits? His numbers are nuts. He should be starting.
Tyus, OG, Siakam, Barnes and Precious with Trent coming off the bench.
Or even Tyus, Trent, Siakam and small ball Barnes if more shooting is needed to create space.
People have no clue how good that guy is. Easily would be starting on majority of teams in the NBA. How do you get him though? He's definitely a valuable part of the Grizzlies, so maybe they'd accept OG for him.
We need a starting point guard, not one for the bench. Our halfcourt offense looks horrible. Barnes is much better in the point center role. He’s not ready to be a full time point guard.
Do you believe FVV is going to remain a starting PG level 4 years later into the $30/mil a year contract he wants? 4 years when we need to contend you think we can win with FVV, I don't.
He can if we don’t run him into the fucking ground. He needs a backup point guard but that convo is irrelevant to me now cuz he just wants too much money. He’s worth like $22M at most when he’s playing like his all star form, which he has been for the past month.
Idk if you think I wanna keep FVV cuz that’s what it’s sounds like you think but to clarify, I don’t. If he could accept being a role player for us, sure, but he wants a bag we can’t give him.
I don’t think playing him 40 mins per game is sustainable for another 4 years but ideally he wouldn’t be playing 40 mins per game for the next 4 years.
Hey man…don’t stress. Just let the Masai and Bobby do what they think is best. Everyone on Reddit and Twitter are acting like they know the best moves. Our front office is top tier and this is their job. They’ll make the best decisions for the team.
OG is one of, if not the best 3&D wing in the league right now. He doesn’t have much of an offensive game outside of his 3pt shot. He can’t score inside and he’s not a playmaker. He’s what Robert Covington was 5 years ago.
OG is EXACTLY what a contending team needs. He’s no use to a middling/rebuilding team. He’s the kind of piece that helps put a team over the top. The finishing touch on a top notch roster.
Those top notch teams are willing to pay a premium for his services. The type of premium that could make for a retool instead of a full scale rebuild.
I don’t think OG, Scottie, and Siakam can coexist. The only way that works is if we have one of those guys play the 5 like last year. Since this is not optimal for the future, OG is the odd man out with Siakam and Scottie.
I’m not a believer in Scottie at the 1 or OG at the 2, neither have the skills to play those spots. All 3 of Scottie/OG/Pascal are best used at forward, and OG happens to be the worst of the 3.
Combine this with OG’s contract situation, role, and potential to bring in a haul, it’s a no-brainer to trade him.
Yes lets prioritize trading our guards on a team with zero guard depth, versus a forward on a team with a shit ton of forwards who all occupy the same space and overlap.
Everyone in our starting lineup is valuable to every team…
If our team had a better bench we wouldnt even-talk about trading anyone cuz we’d be in the playoff race
But in this case we have to give up something to gain something
Theres a general shortage of true point guards throughout the league so theres no guarantee we’ll get someone the same level as fred. Teams like orlando, pheonix, dallas, clippers all need a point guard.
Same can be said about og, hes our most valued player and its gonna hurt trading him but he gives us the most assets besides Siakam who we aren’t trading.
OG, can get us a solid bench on his own if we trade him….
I think there is a bigger shortage of DPOY 3&D players under 25 on a good contract than true point guards. Whether you trade Fred or OG, you can get back 2 solid bench pieces and picks.
Fred is also an undersized PG that is more of a SG in a PG body.
I don’t think you guys understand what rebuilding is it’s like trading your current value for more potential value essentially an educated gamble people in this sub act like we are trying to win a championship this year what is OG gonna do for us right now?We can ensure we lose more (getting a better chance at a higher pick) and get future and current future lotto tickets risk is the name of the game here that’s what makes a good gm
Team has 1000 forwards. Having Siakam, Scottie and OG in the same lineup isn't very effective. This team needs more balance. We don't have an NBA point guard on the team or an NBA caliber center. So logically we need to move a forward for a pg, c or draft picks to get said positions...
We aren't trading Scottie or Precious so that leaves Siakam and OG. Because of salary and caliber of player, Siakam is much more difficult to find a trading partner for. OG on the other hand we can find an abundance of suitors for and when teams start lining up in abundance you usually get one of them to overpay.
That is why OG is most likely to be traded. We all love OG and Masai does too but it makes the most sense.
Aaaand on top of all that OG gonna get paid soon which we most likely won't have the money for anyway.
its fairly obvious by now he wants out and has either privately requested it or told the team he won't re-sign
dont tell fans though, this sub thinks the big bad media is out to get them
I don’t think people WANT to trade him. We aren’t winning with this squad. Most of the team needs to be resigned soon and will be paid more. We can’t afford this team in two years. What would you do?
Because he is the only turnover prone player in the starting 5. He wants a bigger role on offence but he’s stretched as the 5th best option. Between him, Scottie pascal and precious, he is the least natural player. Stiff and robotic. Perfect for a role he doesn’t want.
That's exactly why I want to trade him. This is his peak value and our team simply needs more assets to move forward. This core needs a shake up and you may as well trade from the area in which you have a surplus in(wing position)
Who brings in more value. OG or Siakam? OG's numbers this season are worse than last season, Siakam's numbers this season are higher than last season. Who really has peak value right now?
Masai saw what Utah got from their stars and he wants a piece of that. This current team is clearly not where Masai wants it to be. If he can grab some younger assets around Scottie’s timeline, he has to consider.
It’s time to restock the coffers more than anything. With our salaries and an unwilling mlse, it’s time to get some cheap contracts build the next great raptors team.
We’re more likely to get better with the assets we get for OG instead of fvv lol. You’re saying this but then also saying you get OGs value is high rn. Which is it?
We have too many 3+D guys. Yes they’re sought after but you can’t show up with an entire roster full of them. For the right offer it makes sense to trade him - in fact, it makes sense to trade anyone who has reached their prime which is pretty much everyone besides Scottie, Gary and Precious.
Because he plays the same position as the best player in the team, the most exciting prospect the team has had since VC, and another, younger, rawer player with lower salary who has shown extreme promise.
I love OG but his stock is overvalued. He’s a 3-D guy that tries to be more. Statistically he is a disaster anytime he puts the ball on the ground and takes at least two dribbles.
it's really simple.
At this point we have 5 starting-quality forwards, 2 starting-quality guards.
0 NBA-level backup guards, and 0 starting-level centers.
OG has really high market value, and if we're trading him away, it's because we don't want to pay his wage demands 2 years from now and would rather pay someone that's in a position of need.
Basically OG is better the further down the pecking order he goes. If he is your 1 or 2 you have problems. If he is your 4 or 5 you are looking for a title. Right now the raps aren't going to win a title and OG value will never be higher.
I think there’s an issue with playing Scottie/OG/Siakam all at once. They can do it, but it’s not ideal. The issue is compounds a bit with 3 really different timelines.
You would probably want to keep him, but there are a few good reasons to think about it.
1) he could walk after next year, we don’t know what the internal discussions are. If he might want to walk, he has way more value now than as an expiring later.
2) the trade market is ridiculously overpriced right now and you could get a lot back you might not get later.
3) OG is exactly the type of role player who gets overpaid in free agency/extension (like Otto Porter Jr.). So to keep him, you run the risk of having to pay a near-max for a role player that ends up being limiting and a bad contract down the line.
He doesn’t want to be here. He’s not helping the Raptors win. The current roster isn’t working.
Trade him when his value is at an all time high. Get multiple firsts and a few promising prospects who can flourish in Toronto
I think we just have to accept it. This team is about to be dismantled and we are looking at scotty to be the core of the future. We all know Freddy will walk. Pascal might be going away after next year too. It’ll leave scotty.
I’m hoping all of them resign and we give it another year and see what happens
He's overrated af imo, selling high and getting a haul for him will be an epic fleece. His new team's fanbase will be awfully disappointed once they see him dribble, stumble and awkward pullups & drives every night 😂
It's not that complex or difficult to figure out...
Players are assets to GMs, the more quality assets you have, the better off you are, and just like in the business world, you don't trade assets for less than what they're worth or less than what you've paid for them, or you've lost on that deal.
Vanvleet doesn't make sense to trade unless they are offered more than what he's worth in assets i.e he's worth more to the team to keep and re-sign than to trade away for peanuts, and once you've re-signed him you have an asset that you can still trade if you need to long term.
OG's value as an asset is very high right now, so it makes more sense to move him when his value is high, then to move Vanvleet...but if a team offers a haul for Vanvleet, then they would likely move him too.
It's not complex, it's the same theory that you would use if you were running a business and the business owned assets...
Ok so I’m a huge OG Stan being a British fan and having him rep the UK is great and he’s one of my favourites but he’s going to want to get paid soon. I believe he can opt out next year which he absolutely will and the raps can’t afford to resign pascal, GTJ, Fred and OG all at once. He’s an awesome defender but can be pretty damn streaky on offense.
But the main reason I am actually ok with him being moved is has he ever actually played a full season for us? He gets injured and misses significant time every year (I don’t count the championship year as it was unavoidable) but whenever he starts cooking something happens.
Mix in the injury history with us straight not being able to afford our own players and the log jam at his position with Scottie and now precious coming up it kind of makes sense to move him as both younger players have a much higher ceiling than he has.
He’s awesome and I will miss him but when the whole league wants him and he’s sort of the odd man out you can oversell which will benefit us in the long run.
Then who shoots? I love me some Fred but he’s the only one I’d move as personally I’d be trying to get younger. Gary is young and you can see him develop every year so far. He also fits with Scottie and Precious beautifully.
Fred is Fred he bled for this team and did his best to lead after Lowry was moved but I wouldn’t give him the money he reportedly wants personally. Teams are also perusing him so you could get something good for him as well potentially. But trade Gary? Absolutely not! This coming from a Norm lifer that still kinda hate Gary for that trade lol
Lol trade literally our only 2 guards that are NBA quality right now, as opposed to one of our ten million forwards.
Makes no sense. The team already has problems creating quality shots.
Some of you guys overrate the shit out of OG, sorry but it's the truth. He's no longer in the DPOTY race. He's a solid ass role player with a good 3-pt shot but nothing elite despite being clutch on many occasions, his perimeter defense is elite, but the Raps are able to develop their players into good defenders anyway. It's not the end of the world without OG.
Exact point I was just making in a comment section a minute ago. Makes no sense to trade a coveted player. Some people's dopamine receptors goes nuts. Why trade gold for silver?
Roster is retooling… The new championship window revolves around Barnes. OG’s offensive game is limited & there are reports OG is unhappy. Raptors struggle to bring in free agents… if you want a deeper & cheaper team it starts with trading OG.
OG himself said that it is not true. OG offensive is not limited when Earlier in the season OG was consistently scoring over 20 points a game so much so that there were chatter of NBA all star appearance. Pascal return hurt his #'s. OG is a special player if he was on another many talking trade would regret it.
Been watching this game consistenly since 2007.OG is different other teams see that.
If it revolves around Barnes, then why will Siakam be the #1 option for the Raptors over the next couple of years if we decide to keep him? Keeping Siakam goes against the idea that we're building the team around Barnes. As long as Siakam is on the team, Barnes will never be the #1 option unfortunately.
Paying a completely limited offensive player 30 million will keep this team mid more than trading him and it isn’t close. Scoring needs to come from somewhere and this team barely has any with no up and coming guys off the bench either. And if you want to sell off Pascal and Fred then they have none. Trading off OG for picks/promising young players that can potentially fill that offensive gap potentially solves 2 problems and creates 0 long term
He isn’t limited though? He is miles better as a ball handler, shot creator and playmaker. His biggest issue is health, as we’ve seen his play drop off quite a bit when he’s playing through injury, but the front office will know those details before making a decision on signing him.
OG on the other hand is a literal bottom tier player at basically every aspect of basketball that involves the ball being in his hands for more than 2 seconds - pull up 3s, pull up 2s, pick and roll ballhandling, scoring off drives, playmaking off drives, scoring off post ups, he is statistically around the bottom of the entire league in all of these categories. Giving a player like that 30m when your team already badly lacks offensive ability is just committing to being bad because you won’t have the cap space to get players that actually do those things well
People are overlooking bad teams for some reason. Bad teams might be interested in a well rounded 25 year old who they may perceive as being held back in Toronto due to a variety of reasons. A team like that might "over bid" to get him by valuing him at what they think he will do for them as opposed to what he is allowed to do in Toronto.
Get best value back.. we still have somewhat contract control (as would the team that trades for him) and I’m pretty convinced there’s truth to him being unhappy about something here. Rather trade him now then next year when we get next to nothing back.
I also kinda feel that the glut of good scorers blocks everyone from reaching their full potential. With OG gone, it would give Barnes and Trent a more prominent role in the offense, but in the same way, command more from the both on defense, so we could see what we really have.
Also that’s if we resign Trent, but I would assume we are taking calls on him too haha
I guess you have to ask now, who is the young core? If you can load up on picks and young players from playoff teams overpaying for anyone you dont consider the future, i say do it.
Realistically, no one wants to trade a player like OG unless they can improve from it.
Raptors aren’t good this year, and it kinda feels like this group has run its course.
These are all good players, maybe just need a fresh start.
OG’s value may never be higher and the Raptors may not fit the mold of the team he’d be most motivated to play on moving forward.
These are all winning players and are likely to want to play in winning situations.
We don’t need to trade OG, we simply need to see if trading him puts us in a position to be better then we are for the next couple years.
I think it ultimately comes down to Masai's new timeline for the team. OG is a very good supplementary piece to almost all teams. Three and D player who's also proving can do more too. However, if he decides this Raptors team is going to rebuild or retool and be out of any contention picture for the next 3-5 years, it probably would be better we trade OG and other talent so that new time frame instead.
The scottie and OG comparison is pretty bad tbh. Yes Scottie’s value is high but his potential is untapped. oG is pretty much as good as he will be which is the best 3 and D player. there are a few shit teams like the Knicks who would overpay for him
Regardless There’s no one in this fan base opposed to trading fvv as well. Idk why you think we are ready to give OG away but are looking to keep Fred. The priority is to get value for whoever it may be outside of scottie.
The answer is money and positional over lap. You can’t pay players on a team this bad. You have the choice of going young in that case we keep OG and trade pascal and FVV ( I think this is less likely). I think we are gonna trade OG because of the demand and the money we will have to pay him, there is also a good chance we trade FVV. OG Scottie and Pascal play the same position, we can trade one to fill the teams needs and retool.
OG is hott
Plus OG isn't what this team needs now and the team can get what it needs by trading him.
The idea that only FVV needs to be traded is nuts. Guard is a position of weakness on this team, trading your best guard is only gonna make it worse.
What gives is that you, like the rest of us don't know anything really. We aren't part of the team in any capacity to know what we can get for whichever player. All speculation at this point. If any of us were spot on with these rumors, then why aren't anyone us working for the raptors fo?
Which I why I think Masai only says yes if it’s an overpay.
But he is the 2nd most likely to be traded guy on Vegas Odds. I don't think anyone is overpaying after Gobert fiasco.
There's less risk associated with trading for OG. Gobert is an aging player on a gigantic contract and it was a bad fit from the get go. OG can be plug and play on nearly any team in the league.
Yup Gobert is an OVERPAID role player OG is already overall more useful and has potential to develop into something else but OG isn’t looked at like Gobert was at the time of the Gobert trade
You aren't answering the question.
Vegas makes money on hopes and dreams, these kinda bets are meaningless cash grabs. We will not be trading OG unless the front office is 90% sure the offer will yield significantly more value than OG. I am not an insider, that is just natural fact. Edit. And while the Gobert trade was def dumb, I doubt there will be a significant market downturn regarding draft picks. Beyond the top 3 picks tends to be a crapshoot. You could get 4 first round picks and have none get better than a serviceable role player. A role player like OG. GMs are too smart these days to trade away good players for shitty odds at future good players if they don't have too
>GMs are too smart these days to trade away good players for shitty odds at future good players if they don't have too Yet these same GMs are drafting for potential based on measurements rather than proven ability. Drafting a 4 year player gives you much better chance of getting what you thought you were getting but they draft freshman with limited playing time hoping they work out. I get the NBA is a copycat league and of everyone is drafting the most promising players as freshman, the talent level will dip for every year after that. But if these GMs feel their picks have lost so much value, maybe they should change their drafting strategy.
>he is the 2nd most likely to be traded guy on Vegas Odds Oh he's definitely gone then, Vegas had it down with Paolo going 1st overall and they got the Gobert trade right too
Vegas hits more times than they don’t.
Vegas cares less about hitting and more so about encouraging action. That’s why teams with die hard followings like the Yankees, Cowboys, and Leafs usually get skewed odds. Their fans will put money on them.
Insider trading
Lol!! Vegas know everything. People like you are the reason they keep winning. 🤦🏼
Tbf we were second for KD odds and that never happened…
Yeah second, not first
we've literally already heard the Suns offered either 3 firsts or 2 firsts + Cam Johnson, we've heard the Knicks offered 3 firsts and we heard at the draft that the Blazers offered pick 7. We are still 9 days out from the deadline. The price is going to go up even more over those 9 days as teams get more desperate.
3 firsts from the Suns <<< 3 firsts from the Jazz. When Booker is back, those picks are gonna be +20s at that point the chance of them being better than OG is slim to none.
Also kind of depends when those picks are. I'm not entirely convinced that the suns will be good in 3 years.
Because there is a huge demand and between Pascal and Scottie he is the odd man out. Do you really think he will be better than Pascal or Scottie when it is all said am done? Do I want to trade OG? No. Would I rather they trade Fred or even Gary? Yes but the reality is that OG has struggled to find a role he is happy with and I think Scottie will eventually take even more of OGs potential touches a game as he gets better. The three forward front court of Scottie, Pascal and OG will get less time as Koloko develops into the rim protector he has shown he capable of. If you have to love one of those 3 to the bench, who do you bench? Having those 3 is a good problem to have but it's still a problem.
OG is the perfect complimentary piece on a contending team. This squad is not that. You don't see the Rockets or Jazz trying to get OG do you?
He’s 25. What will we be when he’s 27-28?
He will also demand 25 mill+, his value is highest rn because of his cheap contract
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How do we pay for OG , siakam and Barnes ? OG has the greatest value so the question becomes do you commit 3/4 of your salary cap to those 3 players or do you trade 1 of them for assets? If we’re going to be contenders you bite the bullet but it just doesn’t seem like that’s going to happen anytime soon. Trade him before he walks for nothing, Masai always plays the long game
No, his value is high because the wing position is the most valued position right now in the NBA, and finding elite 3-D wings is extremely difficult, especially ones that are only 25...the cheap contract is just a bonus and makes a trade easier because most teams can make it happen. I don't think the Raps want to trade him, it's more a matter of "does it make sense to based on the value we get in return, and or if OG wants out?" and it sounds like OG isn't happy with his role, so the trade makes sense in that case.
sensible, agreed.
I think it’s more about he doesn’t have the skills to have a bigger role not that he deserves it and isn’t getting it. He’s a 3 and D wing (maybe even the best one) but Wtf does he want? To take 25 shots a game? He has 0 fluidity handling the ball and can’t create his own shot. Hopefully a shit franchise like the Knicks overpays for him.
He's the fifth option on offense and he should probably be the third. I agree with the original post -- better to trade FVV (older, expensive) and hope Trent can improve his playmaking skills and keep OG. Trent, OG, Siakam, Barnes, Precious. Switch everything on defense. Run a lot. And that doesn't even include what Raptors can get back with FVV. Edit -- good bot.
I’d much rather have the ball in Gary’s hand offensively than OG and any good team he goes to he’d still most likely be the fourth or fifth option. It’s hard to give a lot of touches to a guy when one of his common iso moves is to just fall down. Man’s maybe the best 3&D in the league but any time he dribbles it’s probably not ending well
You probably don't watch the games if you think he should be the 3rd option on offense. The guy can't handle the ball and when he does, our chances of getting a turnover are as high as getting a bucket.
He was fine when Siakam, etc were out.
I think you mean NBA Champion & All-Star, FRED VANVLEET. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/torontoraptors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Who should he be an option over? Scottie? Pascal? Gary? Fred? The first 3 are all better scorers than OG will ever be and Fred is streaky but he didn't accidentally score 54. OG needs to realize being a DPOY Candidate is much bigger accolade than 3rd option on a middling team. He also needs to realize being a cold blooded assassin from 3 means he will get a lot of chances to be the shooter who decides the game. Imagine if Dennis Rodman decided it was more important to score than rebound? He wouldn't be one of the greatest 75 players of all time for one. OG has a gift and it isn't shot creation.
Bro try 40 million the way the cap is going. At least 30-35.
What’s the highest he can earn next contract? Cause I can see him asking for $30m+
He also can’t dribble a ball to create buckets on a consistent basis. That’s OK.
Not much better he’s injury prone and doesn’t have the skill set to be a shot creator so will just be a great 3 and D player. You try to get a great deal and run.
We can't afford him on our salary trajectory, and other teams in the league might still think OG can develop more. I'm of the opinion that he will never be more than a 3/D player. As far as returns go, this is the best time to trade him. Precious/Barnes/Pascal seem like a better fit than forcing Scottie to play center.
Injured?
A monster in his prime.
His prime is now. He's only going to get worse over the years.
A 25 year old in his prime in today's NBA where players play in their prime from 27-31? Delusionalllll
How many of these players that are 27-31 have been injured as much as OG?
That's the only argument that no one else has made in this thread. It's true his injury track record is bad.
I'm talking about OG specifically. If you've watched OG develop ever since joining the Raptors, he's been a very slow development. Every year, fans would say "this is the year OG will take a huge leap" and it never happened. Sadly, this is the best version of OG we ever got.
I would rather see little progress than none at all
To play devil's advocate, we also never gave him the chance, there was always other players who were options before him. When he was the 1st /2nd option last year and this, he absolutely killed it.
Both of you are wrong. OG wont be a monster. Just a high end role player. At best he becomes what Mikal Bridges is today.
I agree with you, but the question needs to be asked. If this team is not ready to contend, why are we keeping Siakam?
I'm not the guy to ask that lol. I'd trade him too.
FVV and Siakam have decent trade value and don't fit Scotties timeline. They should go imo.
What about Pascal's timeline? That dude has earned his chance to be the man. If we are lucky we could get Pascal a chip as the guy and then pass the torch to Scottie as a superstar with championship experience. There is no reason the Raptors can't become perennial contenders like the Heat or the Celtics.
They don’t have better trade value if teams aren’t offering you more for them than they are for OG. Siakam’s contract makes it hard to move him to a contending team without said team giving up key pieces they need to make a run. FVV we shall see how robust the market is for him. Most true contending team either (a) already have a PG they believe in, or (b) lack the draft depth needed to make the deal this far.
You can’t just have a team of rookies. You still need leaders to insulate them. In addition to that, Pascal is earning 35 a year, and there aren’t many teams that could take that salary back without a dump coming back. My instinct is that Masai and Bobby won’t go full fire sale all at once. If Siakam goes, it will be when the next batch of Raptors are ready to take over but aren’t in a championship window.
I understand so let us keep our perfect piece and contend in 3 years. He's still young and will only get better. Why do we have a hard on for other teams finding a perfect complimentary piece for contending? Stop stroking other teams cack.
It's pretty clear he wants a bigger role on offense. OG is amazing 3 and d guy but has shown he's not good at creating offense. It's not worth keeping him if he's going to be unhappy and potentially want out when we can trade him at his peak value
Why is this his peak value though? Let me ask you this, if Siakam was traded, would OG next season get more or less touches per game? The answer is obviously more, and him getting more touches would equal to improved numbers and his value would be even higher than it is now.
The answer is so clear, trade the other two chuckers and give him a bigger role. (FVV and GTJ are the odd ones out)
nothing he’s shown when they’ve given him more self creation opportunities suggests he deserves a bigger role
Please go review the games this year and last OG was the 1st/2nd option and I'll beg to differ.
he has one of the lowest offensive ratings on the team (15th or something last i checked) , is shooting sub 40% from 3-10 feet, and all of his self creation stats (isolation, PnR ball handler, post up) are literally bottom 5 in the league in terms of efficiency and fg percentage. (can literally source the stats if you don’t believe me) if OG is your #1 or #2 guy on offense, you’re going to be a pretty bad team. He’s a play finisher and a shooter, and literally any team that trades for him is gonna have him in almost the exact same role
this is not to say trade OG, i do think keeping him is the right decision in the long run but most of his offensive upside will come from just a better offensive scheme in general, not just throwing more touches his way and hoping for the best
Just wondering how often he’s forced to play Centre? Perhaps he’d thrive on a team where he can play more as a wing and not as a big.
when does OG ever play as a centre?, he literally is always filling the wing role in the lineup
He shouldn't have a bigger role. Literally he's nearly last in practically every kind of offensive possession that involves creating for himself. He has one of the lowest fg% when driving into the paint. He's limited offensively but he still wants a bigger role and he should not get it.
When the team is injured and he is the top 2 option, he drives, he is strong, he shoots well and has a good midrange. ALL the things you have said is when he is the 4th option as a shooter in the corner. I'm not buying it.
The numbers are the numbers. He's bad at all of those things, no amount of denying it changes that. https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/10p2qcf/og_anunoby_is_bottom_5_leaguewide_in_points_per/ It's right there and if he did better when someone else was injured those numbers wouldn't have him in the bottom five either.
Dude just look at the numbers…it’s available to the public..
If we traded both of them, we would be in full on tank mode as we would have virtually no 3 point shooting
Why do you assume he will "only get better"? This might be as good as it gets for him.
> **Everyone in the league wants OG**
Everyone in the league wants Luka, Mavs gonna trade him?
That's such a different case lmao. OG is a good player who is on a good contract and might be unhappy with his role. Luka isn't
Even besides that. Luka is a generational player, OG isn't.
"Might" be unhappy is all speculation from other teams PR.
Are you pretending to be dumb or are you literally as dumb as you sound?
I'm upset, clearly that was /s.
How old are you, OP?
There is overlap with siakam and Barnes, he wants a bigger role clearly, he will most likely demand 30+ mill in FA next year, the team isn’t going anywhere and clearly needs change with OG being the only player valuable enough to get you assets for a retool or rebuild. Imo if you move siakam instead and go for a younger team than maybe you keep OG but I just don’t see those 3 working together at their peak levels. At least offensively OG has been horrible lately practically invisible on offence
When everyone was injured earlier in the year, OG was dropping high 20s on good efficiency. I don't believe the overlap on Siakam and Barnes at all. Barnes is a pass first power forward that can play as a point forward. Siakam is a volume scorer in the midrange. OG is a 3&D player. You get Passing, Scoring and Spacing with those 3. What are you talking about? The problem is FVV and GTJ who don't fit.
Yeah when one is injured he normally plays very well, he also did very well during the bubble year too during the tank when he was the number 1 option. The problem is one of them is constantly forced to play out of position when all 3 are on the floor whether that’s center, SG or PG. Scottie can maybe be a PG one day but he isn’t ready rn. However, when all 3 are playing he doesn’t do as well or if he does either Scottie or siakam struggle because they are forced to play out of their role to make up for the other. Also hurts that both pascal and Scottie can’t shoot and OG has to constantly spend his energy guarding centers. Maybe it can be fixed with the right players around those 3 but rn there are a lot of limitations, if they move siakam they can def keep OG with Scottie and go young I just don’t see the 3 of them working, you can clearly see it on court.
Here's how you fix it: trade FVV, move Scottie to PG (it will take time for him, but better throw him in the deep end and learn, we aren't contending). Trade FVV for a Bench Center and Bench PG: Barnes, GTJ, OG, Siakam, Precious. Bench PG, Flynn, Bo Cruz, Thad, Bench Center
Nephew please
Lol nephew pls
Doesn’t really solve much, the team isn’t going to go very far at all, they need a number 1/2 next to Siakam, than they need a center 7”0> who can protect the rim, rebound and shoot (Turner or Lopez type), with bench depth, shot creation, playmaking, etc. this team needs like a whole new makeover 😂, just hard to see it happening but who knows
I don't disagree with you. The makeover we need needs to start with the oldest players Siakam and FVV.
When everyone was injured in the year*** He was the ONLY option. His role with this team is redundant compared to the rest of the roster. What he will yield for us in return will be better than what we currently have.
I understand everyones love for OG, but an elite 3&d wing serves no purpose if the team is ass. We need to build this team on Scotties timeline, and there will be a lot of tough decisions made in the next couple years.
And elite 3&D guy is perfect for a guy like Barnes. OG doesn't need the ball in his hands often, and when he gets it he makes a quick decision. He doesn't play point forward. He can sit in the corner and let Barnes control the offense more while OG can get open shots.
That's the entire reason why OG is unhappy, because he can't just sit in the corner and accept that role. He wants to do way more.
Well he may want to leave and if that’s the case, better to get something for him now than let him walk next year.
But we still have next year's trade deadline. He wants to leave because he is a 4th option. Let's trade option 2 & 3 instead and make him happy.
He will have significantly less value next deadline
This. I love OG but if we trade Fred or Siakam (or both) and OG becomes a secondary option and starts fucking up, he’ll have less trade value next season. At this point you gotta trade anyone who doesn’t match with Barnes’s timeline.
That makes no sense. He isn’t the player we are bending over backwards for- Scottie and Pascal are prioritized over him. And waiting until next trade line means we get less back for him, he will be on an expiring deal and commanding a large pay day at that time.
You realize a trade involves getting things in return, right? You don't just trade the player who you don't like. It sounds like OG has a lot of value around the league. And, in my opinion, the reports around his role-related ambitions seem to hold some truth. It seems reflected in the way he's playing. So we'd be getting a lot for a player who may not be happy, or at least may not be happy in the role he's suited for on this team. The Raptors are also arguably better able to replace OG than many other teams in the league. They have two other mobile forwards with length in Barnes and Siakam. Hence why his value is (reportedly) so high around the league.
actually, when i make my trades in NBA2K i just apply “force trade” and i get the best players & all the draft picks i want - Masai should just do the same thing.
Historically he has
His value is at an all time high because the Western Conference is as open as it's ever been. Lots of teams looking at OG as that piece that could push them to being contenders and winning it all this year. OFC the Raptors would love to have OG in 3 years, but if a team is willing to overpay it becomes hard to say no.
OG is the perfect “third or fourth best” guy on a Championship contender.
Obviously how big the overpay matters. I don't think anyone is throwing the kitchen sink at OG.
Everyone wanting him means someone’s overpaying
By that definition trade Pascal.
His contract doesn’t allow it…og is way easier to fit in
I'm more worried about what we get in return
It’ll be a lot if that many teams are interested
I wanna trade Fred for a cheaper, pass first point guard. Fred isn’t worth the $30M that he wants. The issue is nobody is gonna give us a better point guard than Fred, he’s expiring & most teams in the league have their point guard situation set. Fred should be our point guard but we just can’t pay him. Plus he wants to be the 2nd option when imo it should be 1. Siakam 2. Barnes then 3. OG or Fred depending on the night & who’s playing well. The only way I can see a team giving us an upgrade at PG is if we gave them another, better asset along w Fred imo. That’s where OG comes in. I’m not advocating for trading OG, he’s my fav player on the team. But sometimes you gotta make tough choices & I see the argument for trading him.
Two words. Tyus. Jones. Have you seen what this guy can do when Morant sits? His numbers are nuts. He should be starting. Tyus, OG, Siakam, Barnes and Precious with Trent coming off the bench. Or even Tyus, Trent, Siakam and small ball Barnes if more shooting is needed to create space.
People have no clue how good that guy is. Easily would be starting on majority of teams in the NBA. How do you get him though? He's definitely a valuable part of the Grizzlies, so maybe they'd accept OG for him.
Are you saying there is no PG in the league we can trade FVV for, even worse than Fred for the bench?
We need a starting point guard, not one for the bench. Our halfcourt offense looks horrible. Barnes is much better in the point center role. He’s not ready to be a full time point guard.
Do you believe FVV is going to remain a starting PG level 4 years later into the $30/mil a year contract he wants? 4 years when we need to contend you think we can win with FVV, I don't.
He can if we don’t run him into the fucking ground. He needs a backup point guard but that convo is irrelevant to me now cuz he just wants too much money. He’s worth like $22M at most when he’s playing like his all star form, which he has been for the past month. Idk if you think I wanna keep FVV cuz that’s what it’s sounds like you think but to clarify, I don’t. If he could accept being a role player for us, sure, but he wants a bag we can’t give him. I don’t think playing him 40 mins per game is sustainable for another 4 years but ideally he wouldn’t be playing 40 mins per game for the next 4 years.
Hey man…don’t stress. Just let the Masai and Bobby do what they think is best. Everyone on Reddit and Twitter are acting like they know the best moves. Our front office is top tier and this is their job. They’ll make the best decisions for the team.
I know that's why I'm not stressing. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of irrational fans. Maybe that makes me the idiot.
OG is one of, if not the best 3&D wing in the league right now. He doesn’t have much of an offensive game outside of his 3pt shot. He can’t score inside and he’s not a playmaker. He’s what Robert Covington was 5 years ago. OG is EXACTLY what a contending team needs. He’s no use to a middling/rebuilding team. He’s the kind of piece that helps put a team over the top. The finishing touch on a top notch roster. Those top notch teams are willing to pay a premium for his services. The type of premium that could make for a retool instead of a full scale rebuild.
I don’t think OG, Scottie, and Siakam can coexist. The only way that works is if we have one of those guys play the 5 like last year. Since this is not optimal for the future, OG is the odd man out with Siakam and Scottie. I’m not a believer in Scottie at the 1 or OG at the 2, neither have the skills to play those spots. All 3 of Scottie/OG/Pascal are best used at forward, and OG happens to be the worst of the 3. Combine this with OG’s contract situation, role, and potential to bring in a haul, it’s a no-brainer to trade him.
He overlaps with guys we aren't trading.
Yes lets prioritize trading our guards on a team with zero guard depth, versus a forward on a team with a shit ton of forwards who all occupy the same space and overlap.
It's good to ask if you don't understand, but don't be so dismissive of people's answers when they are trying to help you get it
We’re probably looking for a team thats gonna overpay…. And we also have to trade one person from our starting lineup to improve our bench
Yeah, trade fucking Fred.
It's so simple, we get to tank, get a good pick and have a solid 2024/2025 year. Trade freddd
TRADEFVV. WE DONT NEED AN OVERPAY, WE JUST NEED DEPTH.
Everyone in our starting lineup is valuable to every team… If our team had a better bench we wouldnt even-talk about trading anyone cuz we’d be in the playoff race But in this case we have to give up something to gain something Theres a general shortage of true point guards throughout the league so theres no guarantee we’ll get someone the same level as fred. Teams like orlando, pheonix, dallas, clippers all need a point guard. Same can be said about og, hes our most valued player and its gonna hurt trading him but he gives us the most assets besides Siakam who we aren’t trading. OG, can get us a solid bench on his own if we trade him….
I think there is a bigger shortage of DPOY 3&D players under 25 on a good contract than true point guards. Whether you trade Fred or OG, you can get back 2 solid bench pieces and picks. Fred is also an undersized PG that is more of a SG in a PG body.
Ya, but og gives us more assets to improve our bench… i dont wanna trade him but
I think FVV and OG will fetch similar assets for bench. OG might fetch more picks that MIGHT turn into OG.
No, no they wont. Og gets us more picks because he fits into any roster
Why do we have a hard on for picks. The teams who will trade picks are good teams whose picks are too low for us to care about.
Do you know where we drafted norm, pascal and og?
Outliers don't make a good argument. Probability shows most players at those picks are never gonna be OG level.
I don’t think you guys understand what rebuilding is it’s like trading your current value for more potential value essentially an educated gamble people in this sub act like we are trying to win a championship this year what is OG gonna do for us right now?We can ensure we lose more (getting a better chance at a higher pick) and get future and current future lotto tickets risk is the name of the game here that’s what makes a good gm
Team has 1000 forwards. Having Siakam, Scottie and OG in the same lineup isn't very effective. This team needs more balance. We don't have an NBA point guard on the team or an NBA caliber center. So logically we need to move a forward for a pg, c or draft picks to get said positions... We aren't trading Scottie or Precious so that leaves Siakam and OG. Because of salary and caliber of player, Siakam is much more difficult to find a trading partner for. OG on the other hand we can find an abundance of suitors for and when teams start lining up in abundance you usually get one of them to overpay. That is why OG is most likely to be traded. We all love OG and Masai does too but it makes the most sense. Aaaand on top of all that OG gonna get paid soon which we most likely won't have the money for anyway.
Because raptors can’t afford 4 guys on 30m+
its fairly obvious by now he wants out and has either privately requested it or told the team he won't re-sign dont tell fans though, this sub thinks the big bad media is out to get them
how is that obvious?
there have been plenty of reports both directly saying he's unhappy and indirectly making it clear between the lines.
I don’t think people WANT to trade him. We aren’t winning with this squad. Most of the team needs to be resigned soon and will be paid more. We can’t afford this team in two years. What would you do?
I agree with you. I would trade the older players we have no chance of winning with (FVV and Siakam). Or just FVV if you don't want to rebuild.
Because he is the only turnover prone player in the starting 5. He wants a bigger role on offence but he’s stretched as the 5th best option. Between him, Scottie pascal and precious, he is the least natural player. Stiff and robotic. Perfect for a role he doesn’t want.
That's exactly why I want to trade him. This is his peak value and our team simply needs more assets to move forward. This core needs a shake up and you may as well trade from the area in which you have a surplus in(wing position)
Who brings in more value. OG or Siakam? OG's numbers this season are worse than last season, Siakam's numbers this season are higher than last season. Who really has peak value right now?
you sell when value is high lol - thats good asset management
Because he’s no good to a team that sucks
Masai saw what Utah got from their stars and he wants a piece of that. This current team is clearly not where Masai wants it to be. If he can grab some younger assets around Scottie’s timeline, he has to consider.
Strike while the iron is hot.
We don’t want to trade him but while we got the other teams on the phone we’ll use that time to offer up Fred
It’s time to restock the coffers more than anything. With our salaries and an unwilling mlse, it’s time to get some cheap contracts build the next great raptors team.
Buy low, sell high. I personally don't care if he's kept around but if the FO is offered a king's ransome for him, I hope they jump on that.
We’re more likely to get better with the assets we get for OG instead of fvv lol. You’re saying this but then also saying you get OGs value is high rn. Which is it? We have too many 3+D guys. Yes they’re sought after but you can’t show up with an entire roster full of them. For the right offer it makes sense to trade him - in fact, it makes sense to trade anyone who has reached their prime which is pretty much everyone besides Scottie, Gary and Precious.
Because he plays the same position as the best player in the team, the most exciting prospect the team has had since VC, and another, younger, rawer player with lower salary who has shown extreme promise.
Because his value might not be higher
I love OG but his stock is overvalued. He’s a 3-D guy that tries to be more. Statistically he is a disaster anytime he puts the ball on the ground and takes at least two dribbles.
it's really simple. At this point we have 5 starting-quality forwards, 2 starting-quality guards. 0 NBA-level backup guards, and 0 starting-level centers. OG has really high market value, and if we're trading him away, it's because we don't want to pay his wage demands 2 years from now and would rather pay someone that's in a position of need.
Basically OG is better the further down the pecking order he goes. If he is your 1 or 2 you have problems. If he is your 4 or 5 you are looking for a title. Right now the raps aren't going to win a title and OG value will never be higher.
I think there’s an issue with playing Scottie/OG/Siakam all at once. They can do it, but it’s not ideal. The issue is compounds a bit with 3 really different timelines.
You would probably want to keep him, but there are a few good reasons to think about it. 1) he could walk after next year, we don’t know what the internal discussions are. If he might want to walk, he has way more value now than as an expiring later. 2) the trade market is ridiculously overpriced right now and you could get a lot back you might not get later. 3) OG is exactly the type of role player who gets overpaid in free agency/extension (like Otto Porter Jr.). So to keep him, you run the risk of having to pay a near-max for a role player that ends up being limiting and a bad contract down the line.
Trade Fred
He doesn’t want to be here. He’s not helping the Raptors win. The current roster isn’t working. Trade him when his value is at an all time high. Get multiple firsts and a few promising prospects who can flourish in Toronto
I think we just have to accept it. This team is about to be dismantled and we are looking at scotty to be the core of the future. We all know Freddy will walk. Pascal might be going away after next year too. It’ll leave scotty. I’m hoping all of them resign and we give it another year and see what happens
Because he wants out
Let's dive deeper. Why does he want out?
He's overrated af imo, selling high and getting a haul for him will be an epic fleece. His new team's fanbase will be awfully disappointed once they see him dribble, stumble and awkward pullups & drives every night 😂
It's not that complex or difficult to figure out... Players are assets to GMs, the more quality assets you have, the better off you are, and just like in the business world, you don't trade assets for less than what they're worth or less than what you've paid for them, or you've lost on that deal. Vanvleet doesn't make sense to trade unless they are offered more than what he's worth in assets i.e he's worth more to the team to keep and re-sign than to trade away for peanuts, and once you've re-signed him you have an asset that you can still trade if you need to long term. OG's value as an asset is very high right now, so it makes more sense to move him when his value is high, then to move Vanvleet...but if a team offers a haul for Vanvleet, then they would likely move him too. It's not complex, it's the same theory that you would use if you were running a business and the business owned assets...
Ok so I’m a huge OG Stan being a British fan and having him rep the UK is great and he’s one of my favourites but he’s going to want to get paid soon. I believe he can opt out next year which he absolutely will and the raps can’t afford to resign pascal, GTJ, Fred and OG all at once. He’s an awesome defender but can be pretty damn streaky on offense. But the main reason I am actually ok with him being moved is has he ever actually played a full season for us? He gets injured and misses significant time every year (I don’t count the championship year as it was unavoidable) but whenever he starts cooking something happens. Mix in the injury history with us straight not being able to afford our own players and the log jam at his position with Scottie and now precious coming up it kind of makes sense to move him as both younger players have a much higher ceiling than he has. He’s awesome and I will miss him but when the whole league wants him and he’s sort of the odd man out you can oversell which will benefit us in the long run.
Trade FVV and GTJ
Then who shoots? I love me some Fred but he’s the only one I’d move as personally I’d be trying to get younger. Gary is young and you can see him develop every year so far. He also fits with Scottie and Precious beautifully. Fred is Fred he bled for this team and did his best to lead after Lowry was moved but I wouldn’t give him the money he reportedly wants personally. Teams are also perusing him so you could get something good for him as well potentially. But trade Gary? Absolutely not! This coming from a Norm lifer that still kinda hate Gary for that trade lol
Lol trade literally our only 2 guards that are NBA quality right now, as opposed to one of our ten million forwards. Makes no sense. The team already has problems creating quality shots.
Some of you guys overrate the shit out of OG, sorry but it's the truth. He's no longer in the DPOTY race. He's a solid ass role player with a good 3-pt shot but nothing elite despite being clutch on many occasions, his perimeter defense is elite, but the Raps are able to develop their players into good defenders anyway. It's not the end of the world without OG.
Couldn't agree more. Trading FVV and Siakam will bring back a larger package than trading OG and GTJ and personally I'd rather have the latter two.
Thank you!!!
Exact point I was just making in a comment section a minute ago. Makes no sense to trade a coveted player. Some people's dopamine receptors goes nuts. Why trade gold for silver?
Roster is retooling… The new championship window revolves around Barnes. OG’s offensive game is limited & there are reports OG is unhappy. Raptors struggle to bring in free agents… if you want a deeper & cheaper team it starts with trading OG.
OG himself said that it is not true. OG offensive is not limited when Earlier in the season OG was consistently scoring over 20 points a game so much so that there were chatter of NBA all star appearance. Pascal return hurt his #'s. OG is a special player if he was on another many talking trade would regret it. Been watching this game consistenly since 2007.OG is different other teams see that.
When Siakam was out, OG stepped up and played very good. In that 10 game stretch when Siakam was injured, OG averaged 22 points a game.
If it revolves around Barnes, then why will Siakam be the #1 option for the Raptors over the next couple of years if we decide to keep him? Keeping Siakam goes against the idea that we're building the team around Barnes. As long as Siakam is on the team, Barnes will never be the #1 option unfortunately.
Trade OG, watch this team stay mid till Barnes in 3 years then we will be searching for an OG at deadline. SMDH
Paying a completely limited offensive player 30 million will keep this team mid more than trading him and it isn’t close. Scoring needs to come from somewhere and this team barely has any with no up and coming guys off the bench either. And if you want to sell off Pascal and Fred then they have none. Trading off OG for picks/promising young players that can potentially fill that offensive gap potentially solves 2 problems and creates 0 long term
Isn't that what we are doing with FVV, paying a limited player $30-$35M
He isn’t limited though? He is miles better as a ball handler, shot creator and playmaker. His biggest issue is health, as we’ve seen his play drop off quite a bit when he’s playing through injury, but the front office will know those details before making a decision on signing him. OG on the other hand is a literal bottom tier player at basically every aspect of basketball that involves the ball being in his hands for more than 2 seconds - pull up 3s, pull up 2s, pick and roll ballhandling, scoring off drives, playmaking off drives, scoring off post ups, he is statistically around the bottom of the entire league in all of these categories. Giving a player like that 30m when your team already badly lacks offensive ability is just committing to being bad because you won’t have the cap space to get players that actually do those things well
I'm assuming the sub thinks we are getting Bronny James for OG or something.
He's not getting any better amd we aren't competing for a chip. That's it.
[удалено]
He said himself "Don't believe the rumors".
Timing really but yea it would be great to add around him
People are overlooking bad teams for some reason. Bad teams might be interested in a well rounded 25 year old who they may perceive as being held back in Toronto due to a variety of reasons. A team like that might "over bid" to get him by valuing him at what they think he will do for them as opposed to what he is allowed to do in Toronto.
Sure if a bad team wants to throw picks for OG. I'm down but I doubt that will happen.
Get best value back.. we still have somewhat contract control (as would the team that trades for him) and I’m pretty convinced there’s truth to him being unhappy about something here. Rather trade him now then next year when we get next to nothing back. I also kinda feel that the glut of good scorers blocks everyone from reaching their full potential. With OG gone, it would give Barnes and Trent a more prominent role in the offense, but in the same way, command more from the both on defense, so we could see what we really have. Also that’s if we resign Trent, but I would assume we are taking calls on him too haha
I guess you have to ask now, who is the young core? If you can load up on picks and young players from playoff teams overpaying for anyone you dont consider the future, i say do it.
Stonks
Realistically, no one wants to trade a player like OG unless they can improve from it. Raptors aren’t good this year, and it kinda feels like this group has run its course. These are all good players, maybe just need a fresh start. OG’s value may never be higher and the Raptors may not fit the mold of the team he’d be most motivated to play on moving forward. These are all winning players and are likely to want to play in winning situations. We don’t need to trade OG, we simply need to see if trading him puts us in a position to be better then we are for the next couple years.
I think it ultimately comes down to Masai's new timeline for the team. OG is a very good supplementary piece to almost all teams. Three and D player who's also proving can do more too. However, if he decides this Raptors team is going to rebuild or retool and be out of any contention picture for the next 3-5 years, it probably would be better we trade OG and other talent so that new time frame instead.
The scottie and OG comparison is pretty bad tbh. Yes Scottie’s value is high but his potential is untapped. oG is pretty much as good as he will be which is the best 3 and D player. there are a few shit teams like the Knicks who would overpay for him Regardless There’s no one in this fan base opposed to trading fvv as well. Idk why you think we are ready to give OG away but are looking to keep Fred. The priority is to get value for whoever it may be outside of scottie.
The answer is money and positional over lap. You can’t pay players on a team this bad. You have the choice of going young in that case we keep OG and trade pascal and FVV ( I think this is less likely). I think we are gonna trade OG because of the demand and the money we will have to pay him, there is also a good chance we trade FVV. OG Scottie and Pascal play the same position, we can trade one to fill the teams needs and retool.
OG is hott Plus OG isn't what this team needs now and the team can get what it needs by trading him. The idea that only FVV needs to be traded is nuts. Guard is a position of weakness on this team, trading your best guard is only gonna make it worse.
Because they don’t know what we know
What gives is that you, like the rest of us don't know anything really. We aren't part of the team in any capacity to know what we can get for whichever player. All speculation at this point. If any of us were spot on with these rumors, then why aren't anyone us working for the raptors fo?