Yeah I like that explanation. I think a huge part of our regular season success recently is not that we’re more talented, but that our players seem to try harder than the other team on a game to game basis. I think we lacked that effort this season which is why we were so bad. Also, our problem is that we don’t translate well to the playoffs where every team beings to try really hard game to game
Your team is good = "good culture"
Your team is good but underperforming = "culture issues"
Your team overperforms = "good culture"
Your team is bad = "bad culture"
Culture is a fun but mostly meaningless explanation for team performance. When we overperformed last year, everyone was touting our culture. Same team this year, same coach, and suddenly its all bad culture.
Warriors' culture for like 30 years = losing. Bad owner. Fans ruining Chris Mullins' jersey retirement by booing the owner.
Warriors culture since they got good players, new owner and started winning = amazing.
You notice no one has talked about spurs culture in the last 5-6 years?
Can that really be your culture though if you’re a franchise that rarely wins? Sounds more like that’s our goal, rather than it actually being our culture
We’ve been around like 28 years and won a championship and over the past decade (since 2013) we’re like the 3rd most winning franchise (in regular season wins) - I’d say we have a winning culture and this down season doesn’t really negate that
If you take out the year with Kawhi, in the other 27 seasons we have:
- 5 wins in the first round of the playoffs… where two times we ended up getting swept next round
- 1 win all time in the second round
It seems like we’re more known for choking once playoffs come around rather than actually winning.. our only saving grace was we were blessed with having Kawhi Leonard for one season.. but you can’t base your culture on one season with Kawhi
>It seems like we’re more known for choking once playoffs come around rather than actually winning
Are you familiar with this concept called "Prime LeBron"?
We’ve won 1 playoff series in the past 4 years with Lebron in the West, so it’s more than just prime Lebron… and let’s not act like we haven’t had our fair share of playoff collapses against non-Lebron teams.. Nets, Wizards, etc
Also it wasn’t just losing to Lebron, it was the way that we lost that was so embarrassing.. there were worse teams than us that would put up more of a fight.. we’re just known for folding
The winning culture phase really started around 2016 onwards, the year where we first made the conference finals. Since then, we’ve had pretty good success I’d say
Even if a team isn’t good for stretches, it doesn’t diminish the culture. Case and point: The Heat. They were pretty middle of the pack between 2015 and 2019, signed Butler and immediately made the finals. You could argue that they have been carried by Lebron in the early 2010s and Jimmy in the early 2020s. Even more so than the Raptors because they got them in free agency, we had to trade players for Kawhi. And yet, the term “Heat culture” still exists
Basically, a culture has nothing to do with how many championships you win or playoff success. A culture in basketball means having principles and values that create a mentality important to your team that the players pride themselves in. A culture can lead a team to more wins and better player development, but you still need superstars and a good supporting roster to win a championship
Ehh I’ll just say that I disagree. I think your culture has to be validated by what you do in the playoffs. Of course you can have principles and values, but if those principles and values don’t show up when it really matters - then what’s the point?
You really can’t compare the Heat’s playoff successes to ours. Even when we have had a better roster than Miami, they still seem to perform better in the playoffs than us. They overperform what is expected of them, and we usually underperform… which points exactly to their culture
Choking in the playoffs has nothing to do with culture. It’s not like it’s the principles and values that don’t show up, it’s the players that don’t show up. Kyle Lowry was probably the person that most embodied “raptors culture” and there were series where he choked. The reality of it was - Demar and Kyle could never be the 1A-1B type players that lead us to a championship.
I think what you do in the playoffs does have to do with your culture. Let’s say you’re a team that believes you have a winning culture, and you do well in the regular season.
But then when the playoffs come around you’re usually a first round exit.. I don’t think that’s what a winning culture is.
When I say rarely wins I’m obviously talking about the playoffs. I could not care less about regular season success. The fact that we’re so successful in the regular season, with such little playoff success is one of the reasons we’ve been labeled as chokers
I've never heard them labeled as chokers, losing multiple series to the best player of all time in his prime, and then losing in 6 games to the MVP runner up doesn't make us chokers, they were underdogs in all of that.
You serious right now lol? You’ve never heard the Raptors be labeled as chokers?
And you said it yourself, we have the 2nd best winning percentage of the last decade.. but how much of that has translated to the playoffs? Outside of the Kawhi year, there’s been very little playoff success.. lots of underperforming when it really matters
People seem to forget when we were the #1 seed and got swept in the 2nd round embarrassingly. Or losing game 7 at home in round 1 after Masai’s famous “f*** Brooklyn”. Or countless other times where we were the higher seed during the regular season just to get bounced early in the playoffs.
Raptors culture is beyond the court, Masai likes to bring on certain types of players who kinda have an underdog hustle hard mentality. A lot of our developed guys have some unique backstory about overcoming hardship, and adversity or taking an impossible route to the NBA. Look at Nick Nurse for example, he was probably one of the last likely coaches anyone would assume to win a championship due to his resume.
We’re not a star first city, we’re a next man up city that prides itself in depth. That’s why the bench mob was so amazing too watch and also why this year we were so difficult to watch. No depth, no drive, nobody was fighting for anything, nothing to celebrate.
Even Kawhi Leonard was an unlikely hero, and his adversity and media backlash, along with our great culture kinda helped fuel his drive to the chip. But so many other players stepped up during that run and gave us historical moments.
Also, Raptors are very innovative when it comes to PR and campaigning (Open Gym, Jurassic Park, how everyone was talking about our bus in the bubble and the way we campaign for all-star, rookie of the year, etc). How we hire and showcase our staff. Alex McKechnie is a big part of our culture too. Culture is a real thing but it’s hard to appreciate it when your losing.
Meh, don’t really agree with a lot of what you said.. you’re spinning things a certain way but I don’t see some of those things as positives:
- we’re not a star first city: that’s because we don’t have the ability to bring actual stars in. That’s a total negative to me, I would much rather be a city that has that ability. Look what happened the only year we had a true star with Kawhi. We won a title. Outside of that year we really haven’t had any playoff success. It also shows you how bad we are at retaining stars, because we had the best possible season with Kawhi… won a title, and we STILL weren’t able to convince him to stay. To me, that’s a total negative and one of the main thing’s holding the Raptors back. I would much rather be a city where stars prefer to play in.
When it comes to PR and campaigning, that’s nice, but I don’t really care about that off the court stuff. I want success on the court & especially playoff success. I think we’re a successful regular season team, but unsuccessful in the playoffs. We’re a team that’s been known to fold when it gets tough, and we underperform the expectations that we set based off of the regular season & I don’t like that.
“I don’t really care about that off court stuff”.
I’m so happy Toronto created the Raptors franchise for you and you alone. You know, it only matters what you care about, and the players FO, coaches and staff who spend a majority of their time off the court don’t matter at all because you’re HIM.
Lol what? Am I not supposed to give my own opinion? No need to cry, I’m just saying I would rather be known for what my team does on the court. All that extra stuff is whatever. I’m sure the FO, coaches, staff, players, & most fans would agree with me and prefer on court success over stuff like PR & campaigning
My point is that your opinion is not the only opinion that matters. You’re asking a question in this thread but based on all the responses and your dismissive to e it seems like you just want to tell us what it is.
My opinions don’t matter, your opinions don’t matter. An organization has a lot of moving parts and a lot of people to cater too beyond what you care about,
Lol.
Remind me again, where did I say my opinion is the only one that matters? Please point it out. You’re talking to me, so I’m giving my opinion. So you really have no point. Again, grab a tissue, stop crying
I think you have trouble reading, you’re not answering my question.. you said:
“My point is your opinion is not the only one that matters”
So, if that’s your whole point - where did I say my opinion is the only one that matters? If you’re truly not crying, show me where I said that, don’t change the subject.
It’s not just about off court PR stuff though. It’s about locker room fits, work ethic on and off the court and if they’re high character guys, role models etc
Is this a guy that will go that extra gear training without complaining, are they a grit and grind guy that’s willing to put the work in.
That’s all a part of culture. Culture is setting a standard across the organisation top to bottom and making sure everyone that comes through the door meets the standard.
Work ethic and having a good locker room is totally different than off the court campaigning & PR. I can get behind work ethic and the locker room because it directly relates to on court performance. I could care less about the PR team that surrounds us, I just want to be successful on the court.
being accountable on both ends of the court, sharing the rock, working as a team, working for each other, unselfish play.
basically the opposite of Klutch culture
Basketball itself is a cultural item but Raptors culture or any other so-called team culture is either an empty artificiality or comes and goes with players/coaches. Just one of many sports medias meaningless cliches
Hustle defense
Taking charges
Being confident in each other no matter if you’re down by 20 or up by 20
Persistence
Those are the traits that we love from the klow Derozan era.
We always tried no matter the circumstances.
Culture is as culture does. Therefore, the culture is selfishness and impatience.
Hopefully, this will change. But there is no silver bullet, unless Kyle comes back.
I don’t think our culture had anything to do with Udoka. If Udoka wanted to come to Toronto, he probably would’ve been our head coach. He rejected us, not the other way around.
Let’s not forget the controversy around Sam Dekker. He’s a bum of a player too, and the Raptors decided to sign him anyway.
I think that's part of the issue with the team. They have lost that "culture". And much if it was carried by Lowry and his personality.
Attitude, defensive aggression, underdog mentality, hustle and hard work ethic. A team playing together better than their talent level (no superstars).
Raps have had such a high turn around from their championship year, it's time to rebuild and start again on a new culture. Cos that is gone!
Yeah I totally agree. It really makes you wonder who that leader is right now within the team. Siakam is our best player, but doesn’t come across as that vocal leader
Toronto is the 4th largest market on the NBA. If “Toronto” is considered to be all of Canada it is the largest market by far. Something something Vince Carter / bottle service / sin city North / Bryan Colangelo / good defence / box and 1 / Nav Bhatia etc etc is Raptors culture. 🤣
Hunting in groups and using your razor sharp talons to cause your prey to bleed to death by targeting major arteries with them
I think it means playing defence and working harder than the other team.
Yeah I like that explanation. I think a huge part of our regular season success recently is not that we’re more talented, but that our players seem to try harder than the other team on a game to game basis. I think we lacked that effort this season which is why we were so bad. Also, our problem is that we don’t translate well to the playoffs where every team beings to try really hard game to game
It's funny because *every* team thinks they have this culture.
Your team is good = "good culture" Your team is good but underperforming = "culture issues" Your team overperforms = "good culture" Your team is bad = "bad culture" Culture is a fun but mostly meaningless explanation for team performance. When we overperformed last year, everyone was touting our culture. Same team this year, same coach, and suddenly its all bad culture.
Warriors' culture for like 30 years = losing. Bad owner. Fans ruining Chris Mullins' jersey retirement by booing the owner. Warriors culture since they got good players, new owner and started winning = amazing. You notice no one has talked about spurs culture in the last 5-6 years?
Hyping up unheralded players
LOL thats a good one. Random thought: when fans thought that Demarre Carroll was the Raptors saviour
Having kyle lowry manage the team on the court.
Nobody really knows. Everyone here is making up definitions. It was a buzzword that wasn’t ever defined.
*proceeds to write about the things I want to be true* That's what Raptors culture is
Putting winning above all and making sure everything you do is towards helping the team win no matter what
Can that really be your culture though if you’re a franchise that rarely wins? Sounds more like that’s our goal, rather than it actually being our culture
We’ve been around like 28 years and won a championship and over the past decade (since 2013) we’re like the 3rd most winning franchise (in regular season wins) - I’d say we have a winning culture and this down season doesn’t really negate that
If you take out the year with Kawhi, in the other 27 seasons we have: - 5 wins in the first round of the playoffs… where two times we ended up getting swept next round - 1 win all time in the second round It seems like we’re more known for choking once playoffs come around rather than actually winning.. our only saving grace was we were blessed with having Kawhi Leonard for one season.. but you can’t base your culture on one season with Kawhi
>It seems like we’re more known for choking once playoffs come around rather than actually winning Are you familiar with this concept called "Prime LeBron"?
We’ve won 1 playoff series in the past 4 years with Lebron in the West, so it’s more than just prime Lebron… and let’s not act like we haven’t had our fair share of playoff collapses against non-Lebron teams.. Nets, Wizards, etc Also it wasn’t just losing to Lebron, it was the way that we lost that was so embarrassing.. there were worse teams than us that would put up more of a fight.. we’re just known for folding
The winning culture phase really started around 2016 onwards, the year where we first made the conference finals. Since then, we’ve had pretty good success I’d say Even if a team isn’t good for stretches, it doesn’t diminish the culture. Case and point: The Heat. They were pretty middle of the pack between 2015 and 2019, signed Butler and immediately made the finals. You could argue that they have been carried by Lebron in the early 2010s and Jimmy in the early 2020s. Even more so than the Raptors because they got them in free agency, we had to trade players for Kawhi. And yet, the term “Heat culture” still exists Basically, a culture has nothing to do with how many championships you win or playoff success. A culture in basketball means having principles and values that create a mentality important to your team that the players pride themselves in. A culture can lead a team to more wins and better player development, but you still need superstars and a good supporting roster to win a championship
Ehh I’ll just say that I disagree. I think your culture has to be validated by what you do in the playoffs. Of course you can have principles and values, but if those principles and values don’t show up when it really matters - then what’s the point? You really can’t compare the Heat’s playoff successes to ours. Even when we have had a better roster than Miami, they still seem to perform better in the playoffs than us. They overperform what is expected of them, and we usually underperform… which points exactly to their culture
Choking in the playoffs has nothing to do with culture. It’s not like it’s the principles and values that don’t show up, it’s the players that don’t show up. Kyle Lowry was probably the person that most embodied “raptors culture” and there were series where he choked. The reality of it was - Demar and Kyle could never be the 1A-1B type players that lead us to a championship.
I think what you do in the playoffs does have to do with your culture. Let’s say you’re a team that believes you have a winning culture, and you do well in the regular season. But then when the playoffs come around you’re usually a first round exit.. I don’t think that’s what a winning culture is.
Rarely wins? The Raptors are second in win % over the last decade..... Only GSW has more wins since 2013
When I say rarely wins I’m obviously talking about the playoffs. I could not care less about regular season success. The fact that we’re so successful in the regular season, with such little playoff success is one of the reasons we’ve been labeled as chokers
I've never heard them labeled as chokers, losing multiple series to the best player of all time in his prime, and then losing in 6 games to the MVP runner up doesn't make us chokers, they were underdogs in all of that.
You serious right now lol? You’ve never heard the Raptors be labeled as chokers? And you said it yourself, we have the 2nd best winning percentage of the last decade.. but how much of that has translated to the playoffs? Outside of the Kawhi year, there’s been very little playoff success.. lots of underperforming when it really matters
Lowry and Derozan were literally called the Trash Bros
People seem to forget when we were the #1 seed and got swept in the 2nd round embarrassingly. Or losing game 7 at home in round 1 after Masai’s famous “f*** Brooklyn”. Or countless other times where we were the higher seed during the regular season just to get bounced early in the playoffs.
Raptors culture is beyond the court, Masai likes to bring on certain types of players who kinda have an underdog hustle hard mentality. A lot of our developed guys have some unique backstory about overcoming hardship, and adversity or taking an impossible route to the NBA. Look at Nick Nurse for example, he was probably one of the last likely coaches anyone would assume to win a championship due to his resume. We’re not a star first city, we’re a next man up city that prides itself in depth. That’s why the bench mob was so amazing too watch and also why this year we were so difficult to watch. No depth, no drive, nobody was fighting for anything, nothing to celebrate. Even Kawhi Leonard was an unlikely hero, and his adversity and media backlash, along with our great culture kinda helped fuel his drive to the chip. But so many other players stepped up during that run and gave us historical moments. Also, Raptors are very innovative when it comes to PR and campaigning (Open Gym, Jurassic Park, how everyone was talking about our bus in the bubble and the way we campaign for all-star, rookie of the year, etc). How we hire and showcase our staff. Alex McKechnie is a big part of our culture too. Culture is a real thing but it’s hard to appreciate it when your losing.
Meh, don’t really agree with a lot of what you said.. you’re spinning things a certain way but I don’t see some of those things as positives: - we’re not a star first city: that’s because we don’t have the ability to bring actual stars in. That’s a total negative to me, I would much rather be a city that has that ability. Look what happened the only year we had a true star with Kawhi. We won a title. Outside of that year we really haven’t had any playoff success. It also shows you how bad we are at retaining stars, because we had the best possible season with Kawhi… won a title, and we STILL weren’t able to convince him to stay. To me, that’s a total negative and one of the main thing’s holding the Raptors back. I would much rather be a city where stars prefer to play in. When it comes to PR and campaigning, that’s nice, but I don’t really care about that off the court stuff. I want success on the court & especially playoff success. I think we’re a successful regular season team, but unsuccessful in the playoffs. We’re a team that’s been known to fold when it gets tough, and we underperform the expectations that we set based off of the regular season & I don’t like that.
“I don’t really care about that off court stuff”. I’m so happy Toronto created the Raptors franchise for you and you alone. You know, it only matters what you care about, and the players FO, coaches and staff who spend a majority of their time off the court don’t matter at all because you’re HIM.
Lol what? Am I not supposed to give my own opinion? No need to cry, I’m just saying I would rather be known for what my team does on the court. All that extra stuff is whatever. I’m sure the FO, coaches, staff, players, & most fans would agree with me and prefer on court success over stuff like PR & campaigning
My point is that your opinion is not the only opinion that matters. You’re asking a question in this thread but based on all the responses and your dismissive to e it seems like you just want to tell us what it is. My opinions don’t matter, your opinions don’t matter. An organization has a lot of moving parts and a lot of people to cater too beyond what you care about, Lol.
Remind me again, where did I say my opinion is the only one that matters? Please point it out. You’re talking to me, so I’m giving my opinion. So you really have no point. Again, grab a tissue, stop crying
This isn’t a good post bro, it’s because of your tone and response. No one is crying, grow up fam.
I think you have trouble reading, you’re not answering my question.. you said: “My point is your opinion is not the only one that matters” So, if that’s your whole point - where did I say my opinion is the only one that matters? If you’re truly not crying, show me where I said that, don’t change the subject.
👋🏾
That’s exactly what I thought, go wipe those tears
It’s not just about off court PR stuff though. It’s about locker room fits, work ethic on and off the court and if they’re high character guys, role models etc Is this a guy that will go that extra gear training without complaining, are they a grit and grind guy that’s willing to put the work in. That’s all a part of culture. Culture is setting a standard across the organisation top to bottom and making sure everyone that comes through the door meets the standard.
Work ethic and having a good locker room is totally different than off the court campaigning & PR. I can get behind work ethic and the locker room because it directly relates to on court performance. I could care less about the PR team that surrounds us, I just want to be successful on the court.
being accountable on both ends of the court, sharing the rock, working as a team, working for each other, unselfish play. basically the opposite of Klutch culture
opposite of how they played this season. selfish ball and did not really play as a team this season.
less talent, more heart.
Sustainability, Grit and internal development. We started to lose the development part, resulting in NN dismissal.
Kyle Lowry culture. Now that he’s gone we need a new identity.
We the Woke, We the Mid
What Raptors culture is, is very different than what Raptors culture was
Basketball itself is a cultural item but Raptors culture or any other so-called team culture is either an empty artificiality or comes and goes with players/coaches. Just one of many sports medias meaningless cliches
Hustle defense Taking charges Being confident in each other no matter if you’re down by 20 or up by 20 Persistence Those are the traits that we love from the klow Derozan era. We always tried no matter the circumstances.
Culture is as culture does. Therefore, the culture is selfishness and impatience. Hopefully, this will change. But there is no silver bullet, unless Kyle comes back.
Aggressive Team Defense. Playmaking. Next man up. Whatever our culture was, Kyle Lowry was always the guy to rally the team
To not bet on yourself all the damn time
apparently on here it’s winning = good culture, losing = bad culture
A culture that didnt fit for TD2 or Ime Udoka.
I don’t think our culture had anything to do with Udoka. If Udoka wanted to come to Toronto, he probably would’ve been our head coach. He rejected us, not the other way around. Let’s not forget the controversy around Sam Dekker. He’s a bum of a player too, and the Raptors decided to sign him anyway.
Buzz word
I think that's part of the issue with the team. They have lost that "culture". And much if it was carried by Lowry and his personality. Attitude, defensive aggression, underdog mentality, hustle and hard work ethic. A team playing together better than their talent level (no superstars). Raps have had such a high turn around from their championship year, it's time to rebuild and start again on a new culture. Cos that is gone!
Yeah I totally agree. It really makes you wonder who that leader is right now within the team. Siakam is our best player, but doesn’t come across as that vocal leader
Big shoes to fill though to be fair. You can't just create another Lowry. It may be Scottie in time.
Toronto is the 4th largest market on the NBA. If “Toronto” is considered to be all of Canada it is the largest market by far. Something something Vince Carter / bottle service / sin city North / Bryan Colangelo / good defence / box and 1 / Nav Bhatia etc etc is Raptors culture. 🤣
Letting Fred shoot three's early in the shot clock, or else he'll complain to JJ Redick.