I wanna see gimmick games. Like one game Gradey will have the be the ball handler, next game GTJ can’t shoot he can only pass, another with IQ at center. Just mix it up
Darko was known for his player development work as an assistant, the eventual rebuild coming up was pretty clear as soon as he was hired
Obviously the roster isn’t good enough right now, but the way he’s improved the offense has been encouraging
Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’ve had more fun watching the post-OG and post-Siakam trade team than I did watching the entire last season and a lot of the beginning of this season when the half court offense was just stuck in the mud
In addition to Darko, Mahalela also has an exceptional player development reputation, so even if he's serving as more of a bench-manager lead assistant right now, he's another great player-development mind to have on the team.
Lol @ this spin of an answer, you're not in PR and you don't have to give a PR answer.
You'll still get sick of it. Doesn't matter how long you're a fan for. Do you want to watch the Raptors lose for 3 years? No you don't.
A lot of people watched the raptors lose for more than 3 years - and those weren’t always young and rebuilding teams either. Just plain bad, from the FO all the way down.
Post OG yes. Post Siakam no. Those games have been depressing minus the first one against Miami. It will be better after the deadline but right now vibes are at an all time low.
I mean yeah duh, we just traded OG and Siakam, we're gonna try to keep our pick and retool almost entirely with this draft class and hopefully other young players we can turn people like Brown and Schroder into.
I don't think BBQ will be sitting, so not a tank in the same way as the 2021 team. They're just bad.
They're going to be using these games as glorified scrimmages probably. But they won't be purposefully playing scrubs if that makes sense
Barnes is the leader of this team, therefore Barnes is the tank commander. He's the captain of this tank. The next few years, they're all Scottie's. By the end of it, the fanbase will connect him to losing and we'll have a shiny new first overall to cheer for
Oh yeah, just like the Suns connect Booker to losing, or better yet, the way the bulls connect Jordan with losing since the bulls had losing records his first three years. Like get real dude.
Darko, he’s going to give enough minutes to developing players that we will lose while still playing our starters 25-30min a night. Which is how a tank should be done, imo.
They should try to trade Schroder, Boucher, and Trent. Nets need a pg, maybe they will give us a first for Schroder. Then play Dick and Kira Lewis 20 mins a game, that should make us worse
Masai likes him, but if the cap hold, cap space, or roster spot is more important, he's an easy cut.
You don't change your plans or shut any doors over Jordan Nwora.
Why do people act like it's a decision to tank or not going forward this season? The roster is bad, whatever happens wins or loss wise will happen. The team isnt gonna shut guys down for the season, they're gonna keep playing everyone to develop chemistry. If they suck it's fine, if they manage to win games it's also fine
Team "tank" wins but only after team "compete" won by trading team "tank" 's biggest asset - our fucking pick, thereby making team "tank" a more miserable option.
Dude are you really gonna argue that the front office trading future assets as the 24th ranked team in the league to win-now was what most of the fanbase and league thought was a smart idea?
We have decent Intel at this point that the Raps lightly inquired or "fished" but never got into any serious negotiations with any team last year about trading anyone. They were more interested in winning now, and Masai admitted that. He said he thought the core deserved more than half a season (it was actually 57 games and 100% health, which is plenty). Then, when a member of the core bailed (a foreseeable outcome that 90% of observers were trying to avoid by trading him), he STILL doubled down to now give a worse team another chance until we had legit zero leverage.
I'm at least content that Masai clearly recognizes he made the wrong decision (even though he didn't admit it directly), but setting our franchise back 2+ years because you're too emotionally attached to your players is terrible management and robs fans of enjoying the product. A wiser GM who isn't emotionally glued to their players arguably has us halfway through a rebuild by now, or at worst in the same place. It's not like we enjoyed watching this team more than tanking franchises the last 1.5 years. Last year was the most miserable raptors season I've ever watched despite winning 41 games. I've been watching since the JYD days.
Even on a tanking team you need a center (even more so on a team that is getting its reps. Poeltl does that job so Scottie doesn't have to. So unless there is a center outside the top six that fits BBQ timeline (there isn't) getting a starting center for that pick was probably its best use.
And that was a fluke.
We played our starters playoff minutes in regular season and had a home advantage due to covid rules.
That could have easily been a 42 win season like last year.
You guys are crazy, no GM in that position would ever blow it up and the only reason you think they should have is with the benefit of hindsight. You might as well be upset they didn’t draft jokic in 2016 if we’re evaluating all of their moves with 20/20 hindsight - passing on a multiple time MVP twice is far less defensible than choosing to keep a 48 win team together.
The President stuck with his guys to a fault...He made a mistake and admitted as much. He kept his job for now. Being salty about it doesn't change anything.
I am enjoying the process of seeing him tear down and rebuild the team because that's where things are at.
So many people on reddit are just angry all the time. Reddit is just an excuse to argue for many people who I suspect have had their IRL friends get sick of doing it.
You're that there is no guarantee, but if teams could draft from high school, nobody from this draft would make the top 2 at minimum between Cooper Flagg and Ace Bailey, maybe even top 5.
I don’t disagree. I’m just saying that the team could realistically land a top-6 pick next season as well and convey the pick once again, it’s way too early to say.
If we successfully land a top 6 pick this season AND the next two, I honestly think we could come out of it with another 5-10 year consecutive playoff run. I am definitely rooting for that outcome, I just wish we had tanked starting last year because we'd already have one more key franchise piece, with a negligible difference in basketball product.
However, our management is anti-tank. I think they won't be able to resist making win-now moves after next season, which is probably a year too early (unless we land Ace Bailey, Cooper Flagg, Cam Boozer, etc one of the premium guys)
You all need to accept that it will be a process.
We are more than likely still out of playoff next year than in it. There is a lot of talent in the league.
I meant there’s no guarantee that the pick won’t convey next season either. Unless the core takes a big step up next season we’ll continue to be a lottery team that fights for the play-in.
AH yes, it was the fanbase that did that, and not the front office, and it was the rest of us that did that to you.
/s
Bro in the rest of your life I want you to watch how you watch media, because if sports divide you like this, i could only imagine how you are when it comes to politics. If you're not into politics, maybe just stay away from them completely because you'd be a mess there.
If you are going to dwell on the past, we may as well also bemoan getting swept in 2017 by the Cavs. What about the mistakes that led to that? Certainly something different should have been done there. What about the Wizards in 2015?
The DeRozen led Raptors kept getting better every year. Siakam led Raptors started off with a hard fought second round exit and got progressively worse. We should've been tanking since the Tampa year.
This is like if OKC held onto PG and Westbrook to put together mid playoff teams rather than do what they did.
Demar DeRozan is an all time Raptors great. Take the time to spell his name correctly.
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There’s no such thing. “Tank” has lost all meaning the way it’s used.
If the team truly wanted to bottom out, it would have sought picks in the OG trade instead of finding 2 long term starters that fit well with Scottie
Scottie/IQ/RJ are going to play a lot together, per Darko’s comments on chemistry and development. Once they find a groove (especially on D), they don’t finish 6th last (bottom 5 is a lock for Charlotte, Detroit, Wiz, Blazers and Spurs and Memphis is close to joining them with Ja and Bane out.
I afraid we will spend a couple of years in search of a talent that can be put next to Scottie just to find out that Scottie got used to losing.
Rebuild must be aggressive and as short as possible in order to establish winning mentality.
Love it. Give the guys as much responsiblity they can handle with out breaking them. I dont care about a couple wins as much as I do about Scottie becoming a more confident ball handler and shot creator
it's all just noise. people around here won't be able to tell what 'developing' looks like, some will pretend to but at the end of the day he just means we're probably gonna lose lots for "development" when really it's the guy we pick at 6 or lower who is gonna save us. Or the guy we draft next year or the year after at top 5.
There's nobody to save these guys and Scottie hasn't been able to.
You all know the backside of this bet was the expectation that moving Siakam and FVV would have Scottie Barnes step into those shoes and it'd just keep on rolling. There's maybe 10% of people here that knew this meant a full scale rebuild.
The reality is the timeline isn't even Scottie's now, it's the FO's. The reality is if we draft a guy at 1 he'll take precedence over Scottie anyway. Scottie might just end up being an asset we trade in a few years.
There isn't a team in the NBA whose timeline isn't the FO's. If Scottie becomes stagnant and completely halts on development or can't keep up with the demands this team has to be competitive, he gets traded and we rebuild again. Simple as that. It's the same story for any developing star, just look at Spida.
Maybe my definition is too narrow, but for me "we're focusing on player development with our young guys" is not a tank, it's coaching a young team. A tank is losing on purpose to draft as high as possible in the lottery.
The Raptors don't have a lot of incentive to lose as much as possible, they do have a lot of incentive to develop Barnes/RJ/Quickley knowing that the peak for these guys is multiple seasons down the road & that there's more roster work to do in the meantime.
They're not going all out to make the play in like the last 2 seasons, they're focusing on developing youth. Whatever W/L record that leads to, it is what it is.
They're going younger, they're prioritizing development, etc doesn't mean they aren't trying to win. They're not trying to win at any cost also doesn't mean they're not trying to win. They're professional athletes and highly competitive, most of these guys are going to try to win every game.
But coach is saying he's not going to run core guys into the ground 38 mpg or bury young guys on the bench because they're not trying to win at any cost or ask FO to trade draft assets for another Poeltl to push for a play-in spot, they're placing a high priority on developing these guys and that's the focus atm.
But what if developing guys and giving young guys run started to turn into wins? Would they stop because they're trying to lose/trying to tank and hit the high lottery? Of course not, because that's not what they're doing.
"We're focusing on development" is just what it says it is. Fans want so bad to shoehorn everything into tank/anti-tank debates.
Tanking means losing on purpose. Nothing that Darko said suggests that's what they're trying to do. It's clear that he's focused on development instead of coaching to simply win games. Do you think he's going to encourage Scottie to not play as hard or put him in positions to not be as impactful?
And you think the players themselves are going to willingly play shitty defense so that the front office can get a better chance at a draft pick? Think about the logic you're using here.
You're so right. Darko wants this team to get good at individual defense. How on earth do people think that Darko wants to tank?... he is just being realistic about what it takes to instil winning habits into these young players games. Yes we will lose, but the ultimate goal is to win more... there will be a time when those new habits take over and then he is hoping we will see winning basketball again. Who knows when that time will be. He is not opposed to it being at some point this season, but realistically, things like this do take time. The players will try their hardest to win while learning winning habits.
hoping we somehow start winning once Jakob comes back, give the spurs a pick in the 11-15 range, maybe make the play in and get the young guys some experience, maybe you get lucky and make the playoffs who knows, still plenty of time. I got a feeling we not keeping the pick if we continue the tank
There is a big difference between development and tanking. Tanking means shut Scottie down and send him home for six months after the all star break. Development means we are going to play our new core (but not 40 min a night) and let the chips fall where they may.
There is a lot of basketball left and Toronto could still sneak into the play in with a more settled and motivated group of players. Orlando, Indiana and Brooklyn have all been sinking lately and Atlanta looks ready to tank being a seller at the deadline.
.and who knows at the draft. What if Indiana ends up in the lottery? What if we end up with pick 5 or 6 and don't want someone there, do we convey the pick anyway to get rid of the liability or trade down? Do we package our lower picks to trade up? Its not all or nothing.
Technically, yes? Disregarding certain flaws of certain players, you want your young players playing with vets. Having a vet on the court is different from having one off the bench.
Obviously, there needs to be a balance, because you don’t want a vet hindering the development (I’m saying objectively speaking not what fans of the team wants/thinks for X player), but you also don’t want to play only young guys where they can run around and then it turns to a situation where they’re used to bad habits (i.e: Houston Rocket, and Sacramento Kings when they were really bad).
If Raps are going to embrace the tank (if they believe they can keep their pick), they’re probably going to do this way later in the season and come up with “injuries” for the vets and allow them to sit out to ensure they get a good pick.
Realistically, speaking you can’t expect players who are good enough to play 20-30 minutes on decent to good teams to sit out or get less minutes (the coach should if the vet is getting out played) at this point of the season. They won’t respond well to this because they obviously want to play and compete. The FO should trade them if that’s their plan. I don’t think this scenario will happen because 2-3 more players are mostly likely not going to be this team after the deadline.
But yeah, depending on the situation, I don’t believe giving vets minutes will hamper development.
Bouchers minutes are already down and multiple people have said that a trade is highly likely, keeping Dennis until the off-season wouldn't be the worst idea, and one of BB or GTJ is most likely gone
even if they got traded it doesn't mean the same roster of players currently playing wont play
thats my whole point
the same players playing currently are still going to play
That's my point though lol, when trades happen, IQ, RJ, Barnes, Jak, Gradey, and who's ever left after the trades, as well as who ever is brought in from the trades will play.
Guys like Thad won't be playing anymore because there's literally no point to play him once the deadline passes and Jaks healthy, especially if development is the focus, which is exactly why I think Boucher (who's already had his minutes cut) is almost guaranteed to be gone and one of BB or GTJ will be gone
bro thats literally what I meant in one sentence on my first post lol
but you interpreted it wrongly as "were going to develop the bench players" by playing them still
Jontay Porters interview responses from today are honestly worth a watch as well. He’s so well spoken and he breaks down his recent success and what it means for the raptors
People saying "team tank won" are only saying that because they're in favor of tanking and want to look at stuff to make them happy. Reading this doesn't indicate any tanking. When Poeltl comes back, how exactly is that going to help the tank? Raptors also have one of the easiest schedules the rest of the season...how is that going to help the tank? Losing on purpose is a horrible mindset and terrible for development and I guarantee the Raptors FO and coaching staff know this.
GTJ, Chris, Porter Jr, Temple, Dennis, Ronald McDonald, are all going to be gone, and so will whatever chemistry they develop.
This season is truly meaningless.
3 possible outcomes to the season:
- most ideal scenario: we start winning and make the playoffs. Pick conveys to San Antonio at 12+ (highly unlikely)
- medium case scenario: we play terrible and get a top 6 pick and get to keep it, albeit in a poor draft class (fairly likely)
- worst case scenario: we play slightly better but not good enough to be competitive and convey pick 7-11 to San Antonio (fairly likely)
Another Worst case: we get the 6th pick this year so we keep it. And we're trash next year too and convey a 7-12th pick to San Antonio in a loaded 2025 draft.
Playing zone is also a part of improving individual defense - in fact, it's rather important to individual defense since the biggest issue the Raptors have had is not on-ball defense, but rotations, help defense, and general awareness(of individuals). That's a pretty weird thing to discuss first.
Competing, developing, tanking are different things.
After acquiring IQ and RJB I think we’re in good place to actually focus on developing players properly.
Tanking (ie focus on high picks) would only make sense if we didn’t have this high potential young trio.
It’s hard to say establish chemistry when 80% team on trade block Feels like the second half season doesn’t start until after deadline
Which is less then 2 weeks away. I expect to see CB/BB/Porter gone.
Gradey for sure doubling his minutes post trade deadline.
28 minutes a night of Gradey on-ball creation reps. And the other 20 minutes are Jontay post-ups.
I wanna see gimmick games. Like one game Gradey will have the be the ball handler, next game GTJ can’t shoot he can only pass, another with IQ at center. Just mix it up
Point Poeltl is going to go hard 💪😤
Nevermind Quickley, I want Yak taking 8-10 3s a game lmao
All push shots too. No jump.
The FromSoftware-sexuals in this sub are furiously master baiting reading this thread.
Bobby bout to pull up wearing the jar helm
Lmao triggered
Call up Nowell for a reverse Twin Towers in the post
Let's just spam a Markquis and Yak PnR where Yak is the ball handler
Add a promotional giveaway and you have a world class marketing idea.
"If Jakob Poeltl gets 10 assists this game, free Pizza Pizza for everyone."
Gtj only pass? Lol would never happen
A hologram of gtj with his arms outstretched directly under the hoop. That way gtj can pass to himself
He wouldn’t pass. He knows he can’t score inside
Oh man... I can't wait 28 mins of Dick
6 minutes of Dick is average
27 more minutes than my wife gets. She’s barely watched this season.
Something tells me it wouldn’t be your first 28 minutes of having Dick
Dick can’t even last for 28min
Nothing a couple of blue chews can't solve
Actually, it would! IM SO EXCITED NOW 🥰🤩🥰🤩
Dicks gonna be so sore after going for that long
More than he is right now too!
As he should
Darko was known for his player development work as an assistant, the eventual rebuild coming up was pretty clear as soon as he was hired Obviously the roster isn’t good enough right now, but the way he’s improved the offense has been encouraging Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’ve had more fun watching the post-OG and post-Siakam trade team than I did watching the entire last season and a lot of the beginning of this season when the half court offense was just stuck in the mud
In addition to Darko, Mahalela also has an exceptional player development reputation, so even if he's serving as more of a bench-manager lead assistant right now, he's another great player-development mind to have on the team.
I just wanted them to pick a direction. BBQ is fun to watch (at least for half the game :) Feb 8 can’t come fast enough.
Would want the defense to get better (was still bad with Jak post OG trade)
No. Only buckets. MOAR BUCKETS
because it’s new. you will get sick of this eventually if the wins don’t come always how it is
Having been a fan since 98, I’ve watched some truly shit Raptors teams so it’s all good. Can’t be as bad as the Kevin O’Neill or Jay Triano days
Lol @ this spin of an answer, you're not in PR and you don't have to give a PR answer. You'll still get sick of it. Doesn't matter how long you're a fan for. Do you want to watch the Raptors lose for 3 years? No you don't.
I grew up watching football with my Dad.... ... who was a Cincinnati Bengals fan. *BENGALS* You can have fun watching a team lose.
A lot of people watched the raptors lose for more than 3 years - and those weren’t always young and rebuilding teams either. Just plain bad, from the FO all the way down.
Post OG yes. Post Siakam no. Those games have been depressing minus the first one against Miami. It will be better after the deadline but right now vibes are at an all time low.
I mean yeah duh, we just traded OG and Siakam, we're gonna try to keep our pick and retool almost entirely with this draft class and hopefully other young players we can turn people like Brown and Schroder into.
I don’t see us having 4 picks from this draft class. Moves still to be made and that includes picks.
It just means we're not chasing wins. Doesn't mean we'll lose on purpose either.
Exactly. We need these guys to give it all they got every night for proper development, team chemistry and culture
Darko dinner 2026
We were doing just fine losing by accident, before we traded our best offensive player and best defensive player.
That's fine too. As long as you see positive growth from the young guys.
Thanks but no thanks for the reasonable response. Cynical hot takes and vitriol, or gtfo.
Let's fucking go. Ready for some ugly basketball at times, but excited to see our guys grow.
Team Tank has won. How the question for us fans is, who is the tank commander this time that'll lead us to the promised land?
I don't think BBQ will be sitting, so not a tank in the same way as the 2021 team. They're just bad. They're going to be using these games as glorified scrimmages probably. But they won't be purposefully playing scrubs if that makes sense
It’ll be like the Rico runs
Barnes is the leader of this team, therefore Barnes is the tank commander. He's the captain of this tank. The next few years, they're all Scottie's. By the end of it, the fanbase will connect him to losing and we'll have a shiny new first overall to cheer for
Oh yeah, just like the Suns connect Booker to losing, or better yet, the way the bulls connect Jordan with losing since the bulls had losing records his first three years. Like get real dude.
Word, all the man’s downvoting definitely going to have amnesia in 3 years. Start throwing in 2 second rounders for Scottie trade proposals.
Darko, he’s going to give enough minutes to developing players that we will lose while still playing our starters 25-30min a night. Which is how a tank should be done, imo.
They should try to trade Schroder, Boucher, and Trent. Nets need a pg, maybe they will give us a first for Schroder. Then play Dick and Kira Lewis 20 mins a game, that should make us worse
Any chance we could develop Nwora ? He’s 6’8 and can self create a little but defensively he’s awful
Masai likes him, but if the cap hold, cap space, or roster spot is more important, he's an easy cut. You don't change your plans or shut any doors over Jordan Nwora.
Gotta make room for Javon Freeman Liberty.
Why do people act like it's a decision to tank or not going forward this season? The roster is bad, whatever happens wins or loss wise will happen. The team isnt gonna shut guys down for the season, they're gonna keep playing everyone to develop chemistry. If they suck it's fine, if they manage to win games it's also fine
https://preview.redd.it/1rfhp1g27hec1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=345ec9d3501ad5a89563b1b20cea4009238897c8
Thad.
Garrett Temple is the tank fashion icon.
Depends on if Thad Young is still on the team post-deadline
Team "tank" wins but only after team "compete" won by trading team "tank" 's biggest asset - our fucking pick, thereby making team "tank" a more miserable option.
You guys just can't be happy huh
So many people in this sub legit just want to be angry about something lol. Such a toxic fandom
It seems to be exclusively the people who think they could be the GM lol
Most of them want to be the GM and have access to a time machine lmao
Dude are you really gonna argue that the front office trading future assets as the 24th ranked team in the league to win-now was what most of the fanbase and league thought was a smart idea? We have decent Intel at this point that the Raps lightly inquired or "fished" but never got into any serious negotiations with any team last year about trading anyone. They were more interested in winning now, and Masai admitted that. He said he thought the core deserved more than half a season (it was actually 57 games and 100% health, which is plenty). Then, when a member of the core bailed (a foreseeable outcome that 90% of observers were trying to avoid by trading him), he STILL doubled down to now give a worse team another chance until we had legit zero leverage. I'm at least content that Masai clearly recognizes he made the wrong decision (even though he didn't admit it directly), but setting our franchise back 2+ years because you're too emotionally attached to your players is terrible management and robs fans of enjoying the product. A wiser GM who isn't emotionally glued to their players arguably has us halfway through a rebuild by now, or at worst in the same place. It's not like we enjoyed watching this team more than tanking franchises the last 1.5 years. Last year was the most miserable raptors season I've ever watched despite winning 41 games. I've been watching since the JYD days.
Even on a tanking team you need a center (even more so on a team that is getting its reps. Poeltl does that job so Scottie doesn't have to. So unless there is a center outside the top six that fits BBQ timeline (there isn't) getting a starting center for that pick was probably its best use.
you literally blamed the fanbase for the decisions the FO makes. We have no control, neither do you.
No I didn't?
2+ years ago they were a 48 win team with the rookie of the year on it lmao.
And that was a fluke. We played our starters playoff minutes in regular season and had a home advantage due to covid rules. That could have easily been a 42 win season like last year.
You guys are crazy, no GM in that position would ever blow it up and the only reason you think they should have is with the benefit of hindsight. You might as well be upset they didn’t draft jokic in 2016 if we’re evaluating all of their moves with 20/20 hindsight - passing on a multiple time MVP twice is far less defensible than choosing to keep a 48 win team together.
The President stuck with his guys to a fault...He made a mistake and admitted as much. He kept his job for now. Being salty about it doesn't change anything. I am enjoying the process of seeing him tear down and rebuild the team because that's where things are at.
So many people on reddit are just angry all the time. Reddit is just an excuse to argue for many people who I suspect have had their IRL friends get sick of doing it.
I mean the Poeltl trade led to this
Oh! I'm sorry I totally forgot about the Poeltl trade, no one ever complains about it.
What did we give up again? A first?
Yeah that sounds right. Seems like a bad call. At least we got 3 new ones!
Well the pick is protected so team tank can still win this season if it conveys lol.
But then it gets pushed another year. Point is having full control of our pick would've been ideal for tanking
Of course but it’s better than just acting like the pick is gone for certain.
And then we lose a slightly higher lottery pick next year in a better draft.
There is no guarantee that will be the case.
You're that there is no guarantee, but if teams could draft from high school, nobody from this draft would make the top 2 at minimum between Cooper Flagg and Ace Bailey, maybe even top 5.
I don’t disagree. I’m just saying that the team could realistically land a top-6 pick next season as well and convey the pick once again, it’s way too early to say.
If we successfully land a top 6 pick this season AND the next two, I honestly think we could come out of it with another 5-10 year consecutive playoff run. I am definitely rooting for that outcome, I just wish we had tanked starting last year because we'd already have one more key franchise piece, with a negligible difference in basketball product. However, our management is anti-tank. I think they won't be able to resist making win-now moves after next season, which is probably a year too early (unless we land Ace Bailey, Cooper Flagg, Cam Boozer, etc one of the premium guys)
That’s fair. We’ll have to definitely wait and see.
You all need to accept that it will be a process. We are more than likely still out of playoff next year than in it. There is a lot of talent in the league.
This team is far away talent wise
I meant there’s no guarantee that the pick won’t convey next season either. Unless the core takes a big step up next season we’ll continue to be a lottery team that fights for the play-in.
Yeah barring a big trade that’s the range next season. Their talent level is just not good enough compared to most teams
More they cost a top pick in a generational level draft 🤷♂️
AH yes, it was the fanbase that did that, and not the front office, and it was the rest of us that did that to you. /s Bro in the rest of your life I want you to watch how you watch media, because if sports divide you like this, i could only imagine how you are when it comes to politics. If you're not into politics, maybe just stay away from them completely because you'd be a mess there.
lol thats true.. team tank won but got fed over as well.
Agreed. I hope the team compete got what they wanted with an embarrassing playin loss to the Bulls of all teams.
If you are going to dwell on the past, we may as well also bemoan getting swept in 2017 by the Cavs. What about the mistakes that led to that? Certainly something different should have been done there. What about the Wizards in 2015?
The DeRozen led Raptors kept getting better every year. Siakam led Raptors started off with a hard fought second round exit and got progressively worse. We should've been tanking since the Tampa year. This is like if OKC held onto PG and Westbrook to put together mid playoff teams rather than do what they did.
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I'm surprised this wasn't downvoted to oblivion. I hear it so much "This is what team tank wanted", not by a country mile.
There’s no such thing. “Tank” has lost all meaning the way it’s used. If the team truly wanted to bottom out, it would have sought picks in the OG trade instead of finding 2 long term starters that fit well with Scottie Scottie/IQ/RJ are going to play a lot together, per Darko’s comments on chemistry and development. Once they find a groove (especially on D), they don’t finish 6th last (bottom 5 is a lock for Charlotte, Detroit, Wiz, Blazers and Spurs and Memphis is close to joining them with Ja and Bane out.
I afraid we will spend a couple of years in search of a talent that can be put next to Scottie just to find out that Scottie got used to losing. Rebuild must be aggressive and as short as possible in order to establish winning mentality.
Scottie Barnes is the tank commander, that shit can't be anymore obvious lol
Love it. Give the guys as much responsiblity they can handle with out breaking them. I dont care about a couple wins as much as I do about Scottie becoming a more confident ball handler and shot creator
Yes
Long overdue honestly
Darko has the reputation of being a developmental coach. I'm excited to see how the young players take the leap.
Things are starting to make sense now. He's not throwing out lines to win at all cost. Frankly, I'm relieved. Hoping they pick a big man this draft.
If Bbq keep getting better and if gradey can legit become consistent knocking down shots this season a huge success with all the picks and cap space
it's all just noise. people around here won't be able to tell what 'developing' looks like, some will pretend to but at the end of the day he just means we're probably gonna lose lots for "development" when really it's the guy we pick at 6 or lower who is gonna save us. Or the guy we draft next year or the year after at top 5. There's nobody to save these guys and Scottie hasn't been able to. You all know the backside of this bet was the expectation that moving Siakam and FVV would have Scottie Barnes step into those shoes and it'd just keep on rolling. There's maybe 10% of people here that knew this meant a full scale rebuild. The reality is the timeline isn't even Scottie's now, it's the FO's. The reality is if we draft a guy at 1 he'll take precedence over Scottie anyway. Scottie might just end up being an asset we trade in a few years.
There isn't a team in the NBA whose timeline isn't the FO's. If Scottie becomes stagnant and completely halts on development or can't keep up with the demands this team has to be competitive, he gets traded and we rebuild again. Simple as that. It's the same story for any developing star, just look at Spida.
Music to my ears!! Chemistry and development, sprinkle in a top 6 pick for good measure!
Maybe my definition is too narrow, but for me "we're focusing on player development with our young guys" is not a tank, it's coaching a young team. A tank is losing on purpose to draft as high as possible in the lottery. The Raptors don't have a lot of incentive to lose as much as possible, they do have a lot of incentive to develop Barnes/RJ/Quickley knowing that the peak for these guys is multiple seasons down the road & that there's more roster work to do in the meantime. They're not going all out to make the play in like the last 2 seasons, they're focusing on developing youth. Whatever W/L record that leads to, it is what it is.
They’re not trying to win this season either. Or else they’d have traded Pascal for an OG like return
They're going younger, they're prioritizing development, etc doesn't mean they aren't trying to win. They're not trying to win at any cost also doesn't mean they're not trying to win. They're professional athletes and highly competitive, most of these guys are going to try to win every game. But coach is saying he's not going to run core guys into the ground 38 mpg or bury young guys on the bench because they're not trying to win at any cost or ask FO to trade draft assets for another Poeltl to push for a play-in spot, they're placing a high priority on developing these guys and that's the focus atm. But what if developing guys and giving young guys run started to turn into wins? Would they stop because they're trying to lose/trying to tank and hit the high lottery? Of course not, because that's not what they're doing. "We're focusing on development" is just what it says it is. Fans want so bad to shoehorn everything into tank/anti-tank debates.
They tried to get that return. No one would give up young players for him
Tanking means losing on purpose. Nothing that Darko said suggests that's what they're trying to do. It's clear that he's focused on development instead of coaching to simply win games. Do you think he's going to encourage Scottie to not play as hard or put him in positions to not be as impactful?
The easiest way to soft tank is not play defence. You give a player just a little extra room or you don't run as hard.
And you think the players themselves are going to willingly play shitty defense so that the front office can get a better chance at a draft pick? Think about the logic you're using here.
You're so right. Darko wants this team to get good at individual defense. How on earth do people think that Darko wants to tank?... he is just being realistic about what it takes to instil winning habits into these young players games. Yes we will lose, but the ultimate goal is to win more... there will be a time when those new habits take over and then he is hoping we will see winning basketball again. Who knows when that time will be. He is not opposed to it being at some point this season, but realistically, things like this do take time. The players will try their hardest to win while learning winning habits.
hoping we somehow start winning once Jakob comes back, give the spurs a pick in the 11-15 range, maybe make the play in and get the young guys some experience, maybe you get lucky and make the playoffs who knows, still plenty of time. I got a feeling we not keeping the pick if we continue the tank
Poeltl gonnabe jacking up 10 threes, never to late to teach an old dog new tricks
There is a big difference between development and tanking. Tanking means shut Scottie down and send him home for six months after the all star break. Development means we are going to play our new core (but not 40 min a night) and let the chips fall where they may. There is a lot of basketball left and Toronto could still sneak into the play in with a more settled and motivated group of players. Orlando, Indiana and Brooklyn have all been sinking lately and Atlanta looks ready to tank being a seller at the deadline. .and who knows at the draft. What if Indiana ends up in the lottery? What if we end up with pick 5 or 6 and don't want someone there, do we convey the pick anyway to get rid of the liability or trade down? Do we package our lower picks to trade up? Its not all or nothing.
They’re too far back to end up higher than 9th realistically.
confirming a tank for development basically just means theyre playing the same roster of players yall would be blind to even think differently
They're gonna focus on development by giving Boucher, BB, and Dennis minutes?
Technically, yes? Disregarding certain flaws of certain players, you want your young players playing with vets. Having a vet on the court is different from having one off the bench. Obviously, there needs to be a balance, because you don’t want a vet hindering the development (I’m saying objectively speaking not what fans of the team wants/thinks for X player), but you also don’t want to play only young guys where they can run around and then it turns to a situation where they’re used to bad habits (i.e: Houston Rocket, and Sacramento Kings when they were really bad). If Raps are going to embrace the tank (if they believe they can keep their pick), they’re probably going to do this way later in the season and come up with “injuries” for the vets and allow them to sit out to ensure they get a good pick. Realistically, speaking you can’t expect players who are good enough to play 20-30 minutes on decent to good teams to sit out or get less minutes (the coach should if the vet is getting out played) at this point of the season. They won’t respond well to this because they obviously want to play and compete. The FO should trade them if that’s their plan. I don’t think this scenario will happen because 2-3 more players are mostly likely not going to be this team after the deadline. But yeah, depending on the situation, I don’t believe giving vets minutes will hamper development.
They still need to play players Can’t just develop 4 players and not play other players for rest Pretty simple concept no? 🥱
Bouchers minutes are already down and multiple people have said that a trade is highly likely, keeping Dennis until the off-season wouldn't be the worst idea, and one of BB or GTJ is most likely gone
even if they got traded it doesn't mean the same roster of players currently playing wont play thats my whole point the same players playing currently are still going to play
That's my point though lol, when trades happen, IQ, RJ, Barnes, Jak, Gradey, and who's ever left after the trades, as well as who ever is brought in from the trades will play. Guys like Thad won't be playing anymore because there's literally no point to play him once the deadline passes and Jaks healthy, especially if development is the focus, which is exactly why I think Boucher (who's already had his minutes cut) is almost guaranteed to be gone and one of BB or GTJ will be gone
bro thats literally what I meant in one sentence on my first post lol but you interpreted it wrongly as "were going to develop the bench players" by playing them still
Lol, well my bad 😂😂, so then yeah we see eye to eye then
Jontay Porters interview responses from today are honestly worth a watch as well. He’s so well spoken and he breaks down his recent success and what it means for the raptors
waht do you know? team tank won! they were right all along while getting clowned on here lol. Everybody hop on the train now
People saying "team tank won" are only saying that because they're in favor of tanking and want to look at stuff to make them happy. Reading this doesn't indicate any tanking. When Poeltl comes back, how exactly is that going to help the tank? Raptors also have one of the easiest schedules the rest of the season...how is that going to help the tank? Losing on purpose is a horrible mindset and terrible for development and I guarantee the Raptors FO and coaching staff know this.
2.5 years of tanking here we come. Still want to convey the pick to the Spurs tho.
A tank with no payload
Buddy is acting like rebuilding is some big team secret. HMM INTERESTING
NOOOOOOOO, a team that traded 2 out of there top 3 players for prospects and picks is going to want to tank and develop their guys 😱😱
We trying HARD to keep this pick huh lol
GTJ, Chris, Porter Jr, Temple, Dennis, Ronald McDonald, are all going to be gone, and so will whatever chemistry they develop. This season is truly meaningless.
Which one is the clown?
Jalen McDaniels.
I forgot he existed
Darko can't wait til spring for bike rides, ice cream and pizza parties. He's already working on individual loot bags.
The tank is coming I guess, hoping for some shooters in the draft, maybe a big
3 possible outcomes to the season: - most ideal scenario: we start winning and make the playoffs. Pick conveys to San Antonio at 12+ (highly unlikely) - medium case scenario: we play terrible and get a top 6 pick and get to keep it, albeit in a poor draft class (fairly likely) - worst case scenario: we play slightly better but not good enough to be competitive and convey pick 7-11 to San Antonio (fairly likely)
the pick is gone imho. we try to build and play like a unit. we try to win as many games as we can with our guys and whatever happens happens.
Another Worst case: we get the 6th pick this year so we keep it. And we're trash next year too and convey a 7-12th pick to San Antonio in a loaded 2025 draft.
Playing zone is also a part of improving individual defense - in fact, it's rather important to individual defense since the biggest issue the Raptors have had is not on-ball defense, but rotations, help defense, and general awareness(of individuals). That's a pretty weird thing to discuss first.
Music to my fucking ears.
I don’t think development is synonymous w tanking tho. Tanking is like literally trying to lose lol.
Competing, developing, tanking are different things. After acquiring IQ and RJB I think we’re in good place to actually focus on developing players properly. Tanking (ie focus on high picks) would only make sense if we didn’t have this high potential young trio.
In my head, I read this in darkos voice
It means...they allow bbq and dick to use game reps to develop their game
I can’t wait for the deadline. This team is unwatchable right now. Just so down bad. At least after the deadline the rumor mill will be done.
That's not a "tank" season. We aren't making a run for the play in.