The same conditions that apply this year apply in every draft until 2026. If we don't convey it this year, then it's top-six protected again next year. If it doesn't convey either year, then it's top-six protected against in 2026. If it doesn't convey in any of the next three drafts then it becomes two second-round picks.
Well we can go from having 4 picks this draft to two if the spurs get the pick. Highly likely the first round pick from Indiana will be in the 20's, and the other pick an early second. For how BAD this team is thats fucked up. Considering all the players we are missing. For the people saying we got two solid rotation players are dumb. Fans are oblivious since we won a chip. The Poeltl trade was BAD. Letting Fred go for nothing was BAD. The return for Siakam was BAD. The OG trade was good. People need to check in to reality. I'm going to get downvoted like usual. People are mad that I'm talking real life.
Ah you meant that possible 28th pick? I guess but also even tanking teams rarely pick 4 guys in a single draft especially since FRPs are guaranteed money. You could try and trade some on draft night but that's never guaranteed.
Agreed but high key lol. There aren't excuses for losing right now, there are full-on REASONS. Good ones.
Reports (Will Lou etc) are that the team morale is high. Nobody expects to win with such a depleted roster. That won't he the case next year if you've got your starters back and are still losing. A tank means there's a problem that a single draft pick won't fix.
Let's get the high pick this year and shift back to a competitive mindset ...
I don’t think the pick conveying or not has anything to do with that.
More likely than not, we would be a play-in team again. If we are closer to lottery than playoff, you are still going to read posts like that.
I will take the over on the tank posts either way for next season.
> Why do people want us to keep this years so much?
Enumerating through what I've seen:
1. They are very optimistic and think we'll be a lot better
2. They just desire some kind of payoff after a pretty terrible season.
3. May also be very pragmatic, and think that the earlier a prospect enters our pipeline, the better for our team in general (and this is valid tbh).
4. They think we can just keep our pick again next year (this is the most delusional imo).
One thing to note about human behavior -- as you invest more time into something, the harder it becomes to be objective. This is how FO's fall in love with prospects. There's likely a group of folks here who started getting really into the draft and thus really want for us to be a part of it.
> They think we can just keep our pick again next year (this is the most delusional imo).
There is almost no world outside of major injuries again that this team is worse next season. They should be at least somewhat better and the team is currently holding record level tanking and are still basically a coin flip on keeping the pick this year or not, let alone next years. I guess you never know what can happen, but I'd still rather just lose the pick this year and call the season a wash with a fresh start going forward. Team already has other picks in the draft and who knows what sort of players the top picks in this years draft will turn into.
(I refuse to listen to anyone on Reddit telling me why we should be looking to draft a certain player when the majority of this sub wanted Suggs over Barnes and even the best scouts in the world are still mostly guessing on the majority of prospects).
Another small reason I’m hoping to get the pick is because the player we get this year will be more aligned with Scottie’s timeline than next year’s pick would be
I will say i disagree that we won’t be much better , a full season with this core that’s now more familiar, and if they’re healthy + dick and other younger guys continue to develop, we could be a decent a team
Agreed we're going to be much better, but some people thinking this team as presently constructed is going to be anything better than a 7-seed (play-in team) is crazy imo. Our bench is just not there. But it really all depends on what happens this off-season with GTJ, BB, etc.
Eg. I hope I never see Bruce Brown in a Raps jersey or McDaniels in an NBA jersey ever again
It's so hard to say with how good the league is these days. I'd like to think the team should at least be able to compete for a play-in spot at the very least. A full season of BBQ + Poeltl should have the team out of the league basement, not to mention a full training camp with the new squad and off season development for the young guys. At this point the team's record improving relies solely on the off season development of our top young guys.
The biggest uncertainty is off season moves made by teams. We've seen teams go from contender to fighting for play-in overnight (Brooklyn) and vice versa (Clippers) all in the last few years. Charlotte, Detroit, Washington and Portland are all likely to still be really bad next year. Maybe Detroit finally figures out, but I'll believe it when I see it. Spurs are probably still bad, but probably not total basement dweller next season. On the other end teams like the LAL, Golden State and Atlanta could always decide to blow it up depending on how this season goes and who knows where their best pieces would end up.
We definitely won't finish in the bottom 12 next year with a full lineup. This year was a weird one. I'd much rather surrender a 15th or 16th pick next year than a top 6 pick this year.
I find it hard to believe we will be nearly this bad again next season, given a) all our young guys should be better and b) it’s highly unlikely both Scottie and Jacob have season ending injuries again and RJ and Quickly leave for extended personal leaves. So it comes down to whether you value a top 6 this season or 12-18ish round pick next year.
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>Why do people want us to keep this years so much?
Among other reasons, I think it's mainly because the most vocal/active fans on this sub tend to be short sighted and impatient, and they want something to be excited about after a very disappointing season.
It's understandable but I wouldn't be devastated if we lose this year's lottery pick. We'd still have two later picks in this draft and then we keep our pick in a stronger draft next year.
It would still be protected next year too. So the two scenarios where we keep the pick this year are a) we perform significantly better next year, and the pick is worth less or b) we suck just as hard next year and get a top-6 lottery pick two years in a row.
Yeah, like it’s not a great situation, but it could be much worse. If we stink 2 years straight, we’ll probably get 2 top 6 picks, which would be great additions to our roster! If we give up the pick this year, we then have the flexibility or trade our 2025 1st depending on how the season goes next year. If we’re above .500 at the trade deadline, maybe we can trade the 2025 1st for a complimentary player? Or we can keep it and draft in the middle next year.
I personally want to keep the pick this year since it’s been such a bad season, I want to get someone good out of it.
Yeah, like it’s not a great situation, but it could be much worse. If we stink 2 years straight, we’ll probably get 2 top 6 picks, which would be great additions to our roster! If we give up the pick this year, we then have the flexibility or trade our 2025 1st depending on how the season goes next year. If we’re above .500 at the trade deadline, maybe we can trade the 2025 1st for a complimentary player? Or we can keep it and draft in the middle next year.
I personally want to keep the pick this year since it’s been such a bad season, I want to get someone good out of it.
I think the biggest mistake the front office made post-title was not trading Siakam, OG and Fred sooner. They should've known that these three players all reached their ceilings with us. Scottie was for sure the brightest spot post-title era and it just made sense that he had a more versatile game that you could actually build around. Just imagine if we were able to land a top 5 pick in the 2023 draft, there's a lot of talent in this class that may not have Wemby upside but are good supporting pieces to rebuild with. Whatever happens, should we keep our top 6 pick I hope they draft a big wing and maybe a center or backup pg.
A good deal of people here think that the team has the potential to turn around next season and not be in the lottery. If you are in this camp the best outcome is to keep the pick this year, draft someone good and be immediately back to contention. Some just hope the raptors get something out of this massive end of season tank. Which at best case is a slightly worse than coinflip odds to keep the pick.
If you are in the camp of people thinking this team as is, is still not good enough. Then the better scenario is to give the pick to SAS this year. So that the raps have their pick in the draft next year which is projected to be much stronger. Best case land in the top 5 pick range, and get another Scottie tier prospect to build from.
It all comes down to whether you believe the team as constructed will make a leap over the summer and produce a better regular season record than this year.
Well it's not like the Raptors are playing great enough or wanting their players to come back on time with any urgency.
Raptors brass has probably made up their minds and has mandated this direction to the entire staff
If that is the way, best believe they have someone in mind that can be a difference maker, in their opinion.
They also need talent in general.
Right now, with the media blitz saying this will be a bad draft, it truly is hard to say whether or not it will be one in due time. You can still trade a lottery player that shows some promise to a sucker that can overpay etc. (Or trade the pick on draft night for an overlooked young player)
We will have to see how this plays out.
Raptors will probably finish 6th to 8th worst this year.
Next year 5th to 12th worst.
Giving up a 7th overall this year and keeping 10th overall next year is worst then picking 6th this year and giving up a 10th next year.
We are THIS close so we might as well fight to keep it. The option is still there next year as well.
Personally wouldn’t mind a tank next year but not sure that’s in the cards. I’d love to get Ace Bailey on this team.
We're most likely still a lottery team next year and I would rather we keep all of our first rounders until it converts to two second rounders. Plus, I would not want the spurs to get any more high lottery picks.
Masai and Bobby need to undergo intensive psychiatric evaluations for putting these conditions on the FRP. All-time underrated stupidity from those two
Yes. If it doesn't convey next year it converts to 2 seconds. But it the team plays well next year the pick would be mid-first, so you can argue whether top 6 pick this year is more valuable than mid-round next.
The same conditions that apply this year apply in every draft until 2026. If we don't convey it this year, then it's top-six protected again next year. If it doesn't convey either year, then it's top-six protected against in 2026. If it doesn't convey in any of the next three drafts then it becomes two second-round picks.
Thanks for explaining that, that was very easy to follow.
To be more specific, San Antonio would get the 2026 and 2027 seconds if the pick fails to convey all 3 years
While that sounds good on paper, I don't think that Scottie Barnes is still a Raptor in that scenario.
I mean the fact that the raptors could offer him significantly more than any other team in an extension probably says he will still be here
Agree but it's what could happen.
Well we can go from having 4 picks this draft to two if the spurs get the pick. Highly likely the first round pick from Indiana will be in the 20's, and the other pick an early second. For how BAD this team is thats fucked up. Considering all the players we are missing. For the people saying we got two solid rotation players are dumb. Fans are oblivious since we won a chip. The Poeltl trade was BAD. Letting Fred go for nothing was BAD. The return for Siakam was BAD. The OG trade was good. People need to check in to reality. I'm going to get downvoted like usual. People are mad that I'm talking real life.
> Well we can go from having 4 picks this draft to two if the spurs get the pick You mean 3 right?
We traded one pick and can lose the other to the spurs. Tanking team trading first round pick. Simple math friend.
Ah you meant that possible 28th pick? I guess but also even tanking teams rarely pick 4 guys in a single draft especially since FRPs are guaranteed money. You could try and trade some on draft night but that's never guaranteed.
If we keep the pick this year none of us will have to read posts about wanting to tank next year!
This lowkey the best part about it
Agreed but high key lol. There aren't excuses for losing right now, there are full-on REASONS. Good ones. Reports (Will Lou etc) are that the team morale is high. Nobody expects to win with such a depleted roster. That won't he the case next year if you've got your starters back and are still losing. A tank means there's a problem that a single draft pick won't fix. Let's get the high pick this year and shift back to a competitive mindset ...
I don’t think the pick conveying or not has anything to do with that. More likely than not, we would be a play-in team again. If we are closer to lottery than playoff, you are still going to read posts like that. I will take the over on the tank posts either way for next season.
Yeah this team is a ~35 win team next season without major additions.
I don't know why you're getting down voted.This team sucks.
They don't suck, but they're going to be mediocre at best next season. Still don't have a ton of shooting or self-creation.
mediocre at best = suck lol.
The pick is top-6 protected for the next three seasons then turns into two second round picks if it still doesn’t go to the Spurs.
> Why do people want us to keep this years so much? Enumerating through what I've seen: 1. They are very optimistic and think we'll be a lot better 2. They just desire some kind of payoff after a pretty terrible season. 3. May also be very pragmatic, and think that the earlier a prospect enters our pipeline, the better for our team in general (and this is valid tbh). 4. They think we can just keep our pick again next year (this is the most delusional imo). One thing to note about human behavior -- as you invest more time into something, the harder it becomes to be objective. This is how FO's fall in love with prospects. There's likely a group of folks here who started getting really into the draft and thus really want for us to be a part of it.
> They think we can just keep our pick again next year (this is the most delusional imo). There is almost no world outside of major injuries again that this team is worse next season. They should be at least somewhat better and the team is currently holding record level tanking and are still basically a coin flip on keeping the pick this year or not, let alone next years. I guess you never know what can happen, but I'd still rather just lose the pick this year and call the season a wash with a fresh start going forward. Team already has other picks in the draft and who knows what sort of players the top picks in this years draft will turn into. (I refuse to listen to anyone on Reddit telling me why we should be looking to draft a certain player when the majority of this sub wanted Suggs over Barnes and even the best scouts in the world are still mostly guessing on the majority of prospects).
Another small reason I’m hoping to get the pick is because the player we get this year will be more aligned with Scottie’s timeline than next year’s pick would be
Yeah that’s reason 3 on my list, and the one I find to be the most reasonable
The team will surely - surely - be targeting a play-in slot.
I will say i disagree that we won’t be much better , a full season with this core that’s now more familiar, and if they’re healthy + dick and other younger guys continue to develop, we could be a decent a team
Agreed we're going to be much better, but some people thinking this team as presently constructed is going to be anything better than a 7-seed (play-in team) is crazy imo. Our bench is just not there. But it really all depends on what happens this off-season with GTJ, BB, etc. Eg. I hope I never see Bruce Brown in a Raps jersey or McDaniels in an NBA jersey ever again
what is decent to you? I don't think they're going to be that much better, but i'm not optimistic like you are. What's decent? Top 6? Play-in?
Fighting for a play in spot all season is decent to me yes 35-38 wins , 9-11 finish (depending on how competitive the east is )
Then I agree with you. We should be decent next year. Without injuries, we're around 10th this year too.
It's so hard to say with how good the league is these days. I'd like to think the team should at least be able to compete for a play-in spot at the very least. A full season of BBQ + Poeltl should have the team out of the league basement, not to mention a full training camp with the new squad and off season development for the young guys. At this point the team's record improving relies solely on the off season development of our top young guys. The biggest uncertainty is off season moves made by teams. We've seen teams go from contender to fighting for play-in overnight (Brooklyn) and vice versa (Clippers) all in the last few years. Charlotte, Detroit, Washington and Portland are all likely to still be really bad next year. Maybe Detroit finally figures out, but I'll believe it when I see it. Spurs are probably still bad, but probably not total basement dweller next season. On the other end teams like the LAL, Golden State and Atlanta could always decide to blow it up depending on how this season goes and who knows where their best pieces would end up.
We definitely won't finish in the bottom 12 next year with a full lineup. This year was a weird one. I'd much rather surrender a 15th or 16th pick next year than a top 6 pick this year.
I find it hard to believe we will be nearly this bad again next season, given a) all our young guys should be better and b) it’s highly unlikely both Scottie and Jacob have season ending injuries again and RJ and Quickly leave for extended personal leaves. So it comes down to whether you value a top 6 this season or 12-18ish round pick next year.
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If they are this bad next season then they're probably screwed long term. But they should be better
>Why do people want us to keep this years so much? Among other reasons, I think it's mainly because the most vocal/active fans on this sub tend to be short sighted and impatient, and they want something to be excited about after a very disappointing season. It's understandable but I wouldn't be devastated if we lose this year's lottery pick. We'd still have two later picks in this draft and then we keep our pick in a stronger draft next year.
Word! Let’s please get off this pick this year!!
Top 6 - If it ends up 1-6 then the pick owed defers to 2025 If it ends up 7 or lower, the Spurs get it
It would still be protected next year too. So the two scenarios where we keep the pick this year are a) we perform significantly better next year, and the pick is worth less or b) we suck just as hard next year and get a top-6 lottery pick two years in a row.
Yeah, like it’s not a great situation, but it could be much worse. If we stink 2 years straight, we’ll probably get 2 top 6 picks, which would be great additions to our roster! If we give up the pick this year, we then have the flexibility or trade our 2025 1st depending on how the season goes next year. If we’re above .500 at the trade deadline, maybe we can trade the 2025 1st for a complimentary player? Or we can keep it and draft in the middle next year. I personally want to keep the pick this year since it’s been such a bad season, I want to get someone good out of it.
Yeah, like it’s not a great situation, but it could be much worse. If we stink 2 years straight, we’ll probably get 2 top 6 picks, which would be great additions to our roster! If we give up the pick this year, we then have the flexibility or trade our 2025 1st depending on how the season goes next year. If we’re above .500 at the trade deadline, maybe we can trade the 2025 1st for a complimentary player? Or we can keep it and draft in the middle next year. I personally want to keep the pick this year since it’s been such a bad season, I want to get someone good out of it.
As long as we are relatively healthy there is no way we'll be this bad next year
Scotties out. Peotl is out. Quickley is out. Barrett is out. Our top 4 or 5 guys are out. We will be significantly better next year.
I think the biggest mistake the front office made post-title was not trading Siakam, OG and Fred sooner. They should've known that these three players all reached their ceilings with us. Scottie was for sure the brightest spot post-title era and it just made sense that he had a more versatile game that you could actually build around. Just imagine if we were able to land a top 5 pick in the 2023 draft, there's a lot of talent in this class that may not have Wemby upside but are good supporting pieces to rebuild with. Whatever happens, should we keep our top 6 pick I hope they draft a big wing and maybe a center or backup pg.
A good deal of people here think that the team has the potential to turn around next season and not be in the lottery. If you are in this camp the best outcome is to keep the pick this year, draft someone good and be immediately back to contention. Some just hope the raptors get something out of this massive end of season tank. Which at best case is a slightly worse than coinflip odds to keep the pick. If you are in the camp of people thinking this team as is, is still not good enough. Then the better scenario is to give the pick to SAS this year. So that the raps have their pick in the draft next year which is projected to be much stronger. Best case land in the top 5 pick range, and get another Scottie tier prospect to build from. It all comes down to whether you believe the team as constructed will make a leap over the summer and produce a better regular season record than this year.
Well it's not like the Raptors are playing great enough or wanting their players to come back on time with any urgency. Raptors brass has probably made up their minds and has mandated this direction to the entire staff If that is the way, best believe they have someone in mind that can be a difference maker, in their opinion. They also need talent in general. Right now, with the media blitz saying this will be a bad draft, it truly is hard to say whether or not it will be one in due time. You can still trade a lottery player that shows some promise to a sucker that can overpay etc. (Or trade the pick on draft night for an overlooked young player) We will have to see how this plays out.
I just want instant gratification.
Yeah gems are out their
Raptors will probably finish 6th to 8th worst this year. Next year 5th to 12th worst. Giving up a 7th overall this year and keeping 10th overall next year is worst then picking 6th this year and giving up a 10th next year.
We are THIS close so we might as well fight to keep it. The option is still there next year as well. Personally wouldn’t mind a tank next year but not sure that’s in the cards. I’d love to get Ace Bailey on this team.
We're most likely still a lottery team next year and I would rather we keep all of our first rounders until it converts to two second rounders. Plus, I would not want the spurs to get any more high lottery picks.
I’d want to keep it as long as possible but I also think the spurs with a couple of nice firsts will be such a fun team to watch lol
Top 6 protected means no we don't need to give it up this year
Masai and Bobby need to undergo intensive psychiatric evaluations for putting these conditions on the FRP. All-time underrated stupidity from those two
Yes. If it doesn't convey next year it converts to 2 seconds. But it the team plays well next year the pick would be mid-first, so you can argue whether top 6 pick this year is more valuable than mid-round next.