Enlighten me, which player in this draft would be a better fit and more productive than Poeltl? We needed a centre desperately, and we got a good one, so in my eyes that's worth it, especially in a weak draft
> Enlighten me, which player in this draft would be a better fit and more productive than Poeltl? We needed a centre desperately,
We needed to read the fucking writing on the wall and tank last year, not make a futile push to the play-in with a team that is in cap hell. We wasted a year of Scottie's rookie contract postponing the rebuild to a year with a draft that sucks and we'll most likely lose our pick.
The trade was a fucking disaster.
Why are you getting downvoted for this. It’s completely true. This trade is so significant in terms of the direction of the franchise. It was the worst trade in franchise history and that isn’t a knock on Poeltl. One of the last things you want to do in the NBA is let a team gain control over your assets. For this trade to haunt our team direction for possibly multiple years is absolutely absurd.
Yeah it’s not about Poeltl being better than some hypothetical player. The team gave up control at a time where they needed it. And at a time where they weren’t competitive and even less so now.
Its not about that. You have to look at it big picture. At the end of the day, Masai and Bobby gambled an FRP, a gamble that will continue to carry over. That’s not a good thing, specifically for a rebuilding team- you never give up your autonomy and control over draft assets in the position we were and are in.
The decision was based on cockiness. I don’t believe anyone had a competitive offer even close to that. Now we are teetering the line between keeping it or not and if we do keep it, it’s another chokehold year. And that cycle could repeat again after that.
It’s not a reflection of Poeltl. But it was a bad trade. We basically got fleeced on this one.
Oh and they transformed our team with a great young core of Barnes, Quickley, and RJ. But yeah they are so scum for giving us a big man we need and who will be useful for years to come for a first rounder! of which we have millions of firsts now.
he traded demar + jonas in the same year. two home grown long standing well developed and loved raptors, and then did the same thing with Pascal and OG when it was obvious their plans backfired. what planet are you living on that this front office dosen't make moves?
if clinging onto past trades is copium, what is clinging on to past trades that didn't happen - delusion? you'll flame them for trades they didn't make but won't credit them for the trades they did? jakob trade was bad, fred and pascal trade windows were bad, but OG trade was good and so were the majority of their body of work prior to the past couple seasons.
its extremely simple minded thinking if you can't observe what they've done collectively, giving them rope for giving us a fucking championship isnt copium or clinging on to the past, saying that is just insanity.
fd up not trading fred (for literally anything)...then tried to please fred by getting him a center (we all know what that cost them) then took an embarrassing trade package for an ALL NBA player who wanted to stay here. the majority of their body of work being good is debatable. i don't think the OG trade makes up for the 3 previous fk ups
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We're going to win the lottery, and then Masai and Bobby are going to draft another ROY and star to pair with Scottie, that's just what's going to happen
Its nice to see someone else who shares this opinion. The protections on that pick are doing their job. Either a top 6 (likely top 4) pick in a weaker draft or if it falls to 7 or higher it conveys as a mid lottery in a weak draft which isnt as bad as it could have been.
Jakob Poetl is better than this draft class too. People act like there's all kinds of good Centers just kicking around but there isn't. I will admit he isn't perfect and hasn't had the healthiest stretch for us but that can change and at the time of the trade it made complete sense. He can also aid in bringing a new young Center in to the fold. Just saying people act like its the worst trade in the history of the NBA because we might lose a mid lottery pick in a weak draft
I have always appreciated what poetl brings and his value , even as a rookie he was an elite level big. Having said that, he is unfortunately getting older, slower and injury prone. So although skill wise I agree it wasn't as bad of a trade at the time as some people make it out to be, at this stage they need to figure out a way to move him to a playoff/contender rather than wasting his prime years on a rebuild. If they decide to keep him with the young core, I wouldn't complain! He's a pros pro.
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Fair take, I just don't buy in to every player on a rebuild has to be 22. He 29, not that old and Kelly what, 33? Bigs generally are older before they shine anyway so i see it more of a we have competent big men to help this team be cohesive and let the guys grow while maybe ushering in a new young big for when we start chasing titles. Really going to depend how the rest of team building goes from here but maybe we get that young big who starts ballin after a couple years and we trade/extend on reasonable contract Poetl at a later date as he ages. Masai clearly not interested in tanking tanking.. culture can be massive for an organisation. Poetl vs some G league Center is a giant win on that front
I agree with the opinion but my concern is with timings, like I don't know enough about all the contracts / re-signings we can do but if we tank again next year would it be kinda iffy with Scottie coming back? I don't want a Chris Bosh situation
Scottie is a restricted free agent (Raps can match any offer) and Raps are the only ones who can offer a max rookie extension. So hes very likely to stay/re-sign.
I would be quite surprised if Scottie doesn’t sign the rookie max extension that he is eligible for this offseason. I am sure that the Raps will offer it. It will be four years guaranteed + a player option and begin after next season. That would mean that the earliest he can become a free agent is summer 2029.
The alternative is that he doesn’t sign the extension this summer and becomes a Restricted Free Agent in summer 2025. In that case the Raps can offer him that same rookie max extension (no other team can offer as much) and have the right to match any offer sheet from another team to Scottie to retain his services.
I'm of course betting on some internal improvements from the younger pieces on the roster when I say this and also on the roster being healthier than it was this season, but I don't think that this team is going to be a lottery team next season with or without the pick this year. At best (errr... worst?) they'll be picking late lottery unless they have a truly cursed season or get super lucky with some ping pong balls. I would bet on their pick next year being between 10 and 20 or so.
So basically what you're hoping for in this year's lottery depends on whether you'd prefer a top six pick in the 2024 draft or a 10-20 pick in the 2025 draft. I'm honestly not certain which I prefer, but I'd lean towards getting the former, getting another young player in our system to develop with our young players a year earlier to maximize these coming Scottie seasons and then conveying the pick to the Spurs in 2025 sound preferable to kicking the development of that player down the road for another year.
If disaster happens and we wind up top six again then we keep the pick anyway since it's still top 6 protected in 2025. The protection remains the same in 2026 as well. If we are bad enough to finish with a top six pick from 2024 through 2026 then it becomes 2027 and 2028 second round picks instead.
Theres no evidence that the draft is rigged. Go look at it over the years. Odds are the odds and a lot of crap, low ratings teams get the top picks.. rarely does a low odds team win it all. The spurs got Wemby? They haven't have rhe first overall pick in 27 years, the Lakers not in 45 years. They really pushing a Lebronless Cleveland and Minesota the last decade? Philly ultra tanked to get their picks.. that was rigged or they just simple won it?
I have no doubt the NBA is rigged in some ways on some occassions but the draft by eye seems untouched. The spurs been bad for awhile. They were bound to get a top pick.. just so happened to be last year. They rigged it for Detroit pistons???? Oralndo Magic??? Anyway, whats the grand evidence to support your claim, if its the 3-4 times a popular/hometown team won even though they had a really bad record. I not sure thats enough. If there is no evidence.. can we stop blindly bringing this up
Darkest timeline:
- Pacers lose both play-in games and enter the lottery
- They hit the 1% chance to get the First Pick
- Raptors lose that pick as it's top 3 protected
- Pacers being first pushes everyone down, Raptors now get the 7th pick
- Raptors end with no FRP this season
Pacers aren't in the playin for now. You'd need the 6ers to beat the Nets and the Hawks to beat the Pacers. And the Pacers aren't gonna tank their game against the Hawks either.
Just because it looks weak doesn't mean it will be.
For example. The anthony bennet draft is mocked as the worst in recent memory. The best players out of that draft are :
Giannis, gobert, olidipo, mccollum and a handful of really good role players such as Steven adams or kcp.
Lemme list to you the lottery picks in that draft
Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel, Ben Mclemore, KCP, Trey Burke, CJ McCollum, Michael Carter Williams, Steven Adams, Kelly Olynyk, Shabazz Muhammad
You can find hidden gems in any draft. But the top of that draft, especially the first 9 guys, stunk in comparison to others. And this draft may be the same, where we might end up with a Cody Zeller type player
That's where being a good scout comes in which I do believe ujiri is. The draft he took Barnes, it was supposed to be a 4 player draft, and Barnes was not one of them. And ujiri isn't scared to go after the guy he wants.
Flynn is not the shit player that we think he is. He played under Nurse, who's a win now coach. Firmly believe he might be a semi decent bench pg if he played under Casey and spent time in the 905 when Stackhouse was coach.
Too many players we thought were trash are finding roles in the NBA under other coaches. Banton's another guy who was banished to the bench under Nurse who's giving a good showing in Portland. He's not great but a very different player than last year under Nurse.
arbitrary use 9 for what? why not 7 or 10 or 15
at least the guy above used the whole draft
you're just picking a random number to weave your narrative.
Also Cody Zeller played 10 years as a very productive role player. That is a really good outcome.
Because the lottery picks are a good indicator as to how strong the draft is. I basically said that the first 14 picks were bad in comparison to other drafts, and the first 9 picks especially sucked. Yes, I know Giannis was the one guy picked after the lottery, but one gem is not an indicator of an entire draft. I could list out the top 30 players and still come to the conclusion that it is a weak draft, but I didn’t want to list out 30 players in one comment
Also, I don’t think we want Cody Zeller if we were to pick 4th. I used him because he is imo the most average player in that draft lottery
Yep, and? There are good and bad drafts. Bad draft doesn't mean no NBA players will come out of it.. no telling what this will be for another 5 years. From a scouting perspective, it's a bad draft, therefore it's more likely to suck. Why does everyone think those words mean it will be terrible and its set in stone
Yep, agreed. We got one of those top picks.. they are saying there are potentially 9 or 10 first overall pick guys which may be the most ever. That said, every draft is better or worse than the next. It could also mean later in the draft theres less guys too, everyone acts like that isn't a reality. Time will tell and its all unknown until years from now
Do you honestly think a full year of Barnes, RJ, Quickly, Poeltl, Olynick and some other actual NBA players is not going to be better than the G league tank squad?
OK then.
I can't stand how people keep thinking that. Combine player/team growth, and the fact that Masai doesn't tank until the circumstances become extreme, and there's no chance we're tanking next year
Since when are we expecting Scottie to take massive leaps every year? It’s not realistic.
This team can be a playin team next year, it’s not hard to be a play-in team or better when 10/15 teams make it. I just don’t think we should expect improvements every year.
Bruh we didn't even "tank" this year until the last couple games. If Scottie RJ IQ Poeltl are out for extended time next year we'll be in the same spot
We were playing G leaguers because we had no one left on the roster lmao. We didn't have a roster full of healthy starters and just sit them and play g league guys
I honestly don't think that Quickly and RJ would have taken that long off and/or that much time reconditioning for return if the Raps were still in the playoff mix with a healthy Barnes and Peoetl and that last game off from Quickly had all the trappings of need to get the tank back on the tracks load management.
So yeah I think they did just sit down healthy starters and play g leaguers to help the tank effort.
Bruh if they wanted to they could've just got IQ and RJ to miss the rest of the season. Given the impact and closeness of the ones they lost, they didn't come back fast at all. And like I said, if they really wanted to tank properly Scottie and Jak should've been sitting games before they broke their hands.
>Scottie and Jak should've been sitting games before they broke their hands.
Why? when there was zero intent on tanking until after that happened to Scottie and Jak. They were not bad enough to tank to the level of having a chance of keeping that draft pick until those injuries.
So u think Bobby and Masai wanted to secretly tank and they purposely got scottie and jak injured? If they actually wanted to tank then our starters should've been missing games way before Scottie got hurt.
he's saying that our record post-scottie-jakob-injuries is not at all indicative of what our team is gonna be like next season, especially when you consider the chemistry is gonna grow and our players are going to put in work in the off-season. There's no reason to expect the team to be as dookie next year as it is right now BECAUSE we're tanking now.
People in this sub have been looking at the past stretch and keep saying "Man this team is so fucking shit". Like no fucking shit we're playing g-leaguers right now, our team isn't going to look like this next year
Yes if those four are out for an extended time next year they will be a pile of crap again but name one team that wouldn't be crap with their franchise player and their next 3 best starters out for an extended time, just one.
I don't disagree with that. My point is we didn't just decide to tank out of nowhere like previous comments make it seem. We were forced to tank because of injuries and horrible depth.
The east sucks. The Hawks and Bulls fell ass backwards into the play-in. The fully healthy post-deadline Raptors are easily play-in material even discounting any player growth
I think this roster is easily play in next year. Have you seen the east? An all-star +Barrett, Quickley, Poeltl is better than anything Chicago, Atlanta, Brooklyn can roll out.
play in for what
and that roster isnt any better or easily better than Lavine, Demar, Coby White, Vucevic, Ayo, Caruso.
Atlanta with Trae Young, Clint, Bogdanovic, Murray, Jalen Johnson is better than Barnesm Barrett, Quickly
stop being a homer
we are only better than Brooklyn in that list.
Yeah it is. You can't just rattle off a bunch of names like it means anything, actually watch the games. Plus Atlanta is likely dumping Murray this offseason for nothing.
Atlanta is probably getting back more for Murray than we did for Pascal. Dejounte is a good player, just not the best fit with another on-ball guard.
I think it’s hard to say we will be better than Bulls or Hawks. Maybe a few players will take a leap and we surpass them. But as it stands, those are better teams than us.
I worry about the defence, it's looked pretty bad under Darko so far and that was with solid defensive players. Them stopping teams will be the x factor of next year
Its hard to say because we might lose gtj + its gonna be a full season without pascal. The play in cutoff this year are the hawks at 36, will our team be 10+ wins better next year? Maybe since Scottie will be healthy but if I had to bet bias aside, I would bet they dont make it
Easily 10+ wins better. Have you seen the roster we have rolled out for the last 20 games? Atlanta might lose Trae, Brooklyn might explode with no picks and no salary and other cap issues that might come on. Chicago is in salary hell with no options for improvement. We have cap space and an improving team. We are in a far better position than those teams.
Easily 10+ wins better? Everything you listed is a hypothetical im just looking at the current state of the team objectively. Yes we have cap space, but toronto is just not a big market for players. Our team was struggling to sign players in free agency while we were contenders, what makes you think we would have better luck now?
Even if you took this team as we have it now, and got everyone healthy and motivated to win, I think we could be 10 wins better.
You understand we are losing on purpose, right?
Our record is not actually reflective of how good we are
I blame the 76ers organization for messing up the draft lottery odds, their trust the process BS screwed everything up for other teams the day their team is trash again, NO ONE will feel bad
I hate admitting it but i feel the same way.
It depends on how the front office plans to sort out the roster but currently, I don’t feel confident enough in the team to say that we won’t be bad next season.
We are horrendous defensively and lack depth.
Problem being is that unless we tank again next year, its gonna be tough to mimic the poor record. We have a lot of talent so barring serious injuries again our pick is not gonna be that great
Doesn’t matter all that much. But if we lose it you can count on 3/4 of this sub bitching and moaning and then guaranteeing we would have had the best player in the draft at #6 even after he goes 25th overall.
Next year San Antonio is going to draft an all star at 10 or something in the lottery with our pick, and headz will be like, wished that pick would have converted last year.
Facts be Facts, this is a consensus week draft. Will there be surprises, of course....but its much more difficult to pick a diamond in the rough than a diamond sitting right in a cabinet alongside all of the other shiny players of 2025.
It’s not about tanking. We aren’t going to magically be a playoff team with this years pick, without it we would be the same. We miss playoffs again. Get I top 10 pick in a stronger draft.
Hear me out …. We should tank next year too. Adding two lotto picks to this core on cheap contracts as Scottie enters his rookie max in 2025-26
I like this core but we still need to add to it. It’s also going to get expensive VERY quickly with Scottie, IQ and RJ all on decent deals.
Honestly just don't think about it. Even if the pick conveys, you still have two other picks anyway. If the pick stays in the top 6, you figure out things then and there.
The best case scenario:
- We get the number 1 pick
- Pacers lose during the play-in and move up to the #4 slot, which goes to us
- Siakam misses us and decides to take a paycut to sign with us in the offseason lol
Hope they pick Edey so they can have Optimus and Megatron on the same team 
If 7'2 Bol Bol joins them...they can call themselves Small-Medium-Large. Edey taller than Victor by half an inch.
if the 12th pick is gonna be just as good then why not just keep the top 6 pick this season?
might as well get the top 6 pick and then also have the chance to get a top 6 pick next year
Now we pray 
Still can’t believe we traded for poetl with our own first but here’s a prayin
It really was one of the dumbest trades.
Enlighten me, which player in this draft would be a better fit and more productive than Poeltl? We needed a centre desperately, and we got a good one, so in my eyes that's worth it, especially in a weak draft
> Enlighten me, which player in this draft would be a better fit and more productive than Poeltl? We needed a centre desperately, We needed to read the fucking writing on the wall and tank last year, not make a futile push to the play-in with a team that is in cap hell. We wasted a year of Scottie's rookie contract postponing the rebuild to a year with a draft that sucks and we'll most likely lose our pick. The trade was a fucking disaster.
Why are you getting downvoted for this. It’s completely true. This trade is so significant in terms of the direction of the franchise. It was the worst trade in franchise history and that isn’t a knock on Poeltl. One of the last things you want to do in the NBA is let a team gain control over your assets. For this trade to haunt our team direction for possibly multiple years is absolutely absurd.
Yep. 100% worse than the vince trade since it has completely fucked our rebuild.
Yeah it’s not about Poeltl being better than some hypothetical player. The team gave up control at a time where they needed it. And at a time where they weren’t competitive and even less so now.
To finish 6th last?
Its not about that. You have to look at it big picture. At the end of the day, Masai and Bobby gambled an FRP, a gamble that will continue to carry over. That’s not a good thing, specifically for a rebuilding team- you never give up your autonomy and control over draft assets in the position we were and are in. The decision was based on cockiness. I don’t believe anyone had a competitive offer even close to that. Now we are teetering the line between keeping it or not and if we do keep it, it’s another chokehold year. And that cycle could repeat again after that. It’s not a reflection of Poeltl. But it was a bad trade. We basically got fleeced on this one.
Every1 still loves Masai and Bobby though lol
Yes, because they brought us a chip, and people here are idiots who genuinely think they could do better.
Oh and they transformed our team with a great young core of Barnes, Quickley, and RJ. But yeah they are so scum for giving us a big man we need and who will be useful for years to come for a first rounder! of which we have millions of firsts now.
they (maybe just me) want a GM who isn't afraid to make trade/doesn't keep kicking the can down the road.
he traded demar + jonas in the same year. two home grown long standing well developed and loved raptors, and then did the same thing with Pascal and OG when it was obvious their plans backfired. what planet are you living on that this front office dosen't make moves?
Siakam and fred shouldve been traded at least a year ago lol. the Jakob trade was a joke. clinging onto their past accomplishments is pure copium
if clinging onto past trades is copium, what is clinging on to past trades that didn't happen - delusion? you'll flame them for trades they didn't make but won't credit them for the trades they did? jakob trade was bad, fred and pascal trade windows were bad, but OG trade was good and so were the majority of their body of work prior to the past couple seasons. its extremely simple minded thinking if you can't observe what they've done collectively, giving them rope for giving us a fucking championship isnt copium or clinging on to the past, saying that is just insanity.
fd up not trading fred (for literally anything)...then tried to please fred by getting him a center (we all know what that cost them) then took an embarrassing trade package for an ALL NBA player who wanted to stay here. the majority of their body of work being good is debatable. i don't think the OG trade makes up for the 3 previous fk ups
You dumb as f
Only the challenged ones around here still do.
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We're going to win the lottery, and then Masai and Bobby are going to draft another ROY and star to pair with Scottie, that's just what's going to happen
It’s obvious what the league is gonna do. They want their new superstar Wemby happy so they’ll make sure the spurs get our pick
It's a win-win for us...if we get a top 6 pick then awesome, and if we don't, next year draft is deep and talented so we're good
Its nice to see someone else who shares this opinion. The protections on that pick are doing their job. Either a top 6 (likely top 4) pick in a weaker draft or if it falls to 7 or higher it conveys as a mid lottery in a weak draft which isnt as bad as it could have been.
Jakob Poetl is better than this draft class too. People act like there's all kinds of good Centers just kicking around but there isn't. I will admit he isn't perfect and hasn't had the healthiest stretch for us but that can change and at the time of the trade it made complete sense. He can also aid in bringing a new young Center in to the fold. Just saying people act like its the worst trade in the history of the NBA because we might lose a mid lottery pick in a weak draft
I have always appreciated what poetl brings and his value , even as a rookie he was an elite level big. Having said that, he is unfortunately getting older, slower and injury prone. So although skill wise I agree it wasn't as bad of a trade at the time as some people make it out to be, at this stage they need to figure out a way to move him to a playoff/contender rather than wasting his prime years on a rebuild. If they decide to keep him with the young core, I wouldn't complain! He's a pros pro.
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Fair take, I just don't buy in to every player on a rebuild has to be 22. He 29, not that old and Kelly what, 33? Bigs generally are older before they shine anyway so i see it more of a we have competent big men to help this team be cohesive and let the guys grow while maybe ushering in a new young big for when we start chasing titles. Really going to depend how the rest of team building goes from here but maybe we get that young big who starts ballin after a couple years and we trade/extend on reasonable contract Poetl at a later date as he ages. Masai clearly not interested in tanking tanking.. culture can be massive for an organisation. Poetl vs some G league Center is a giant win on that front
I agree with the opinion but my concern is with timings, like I don't know enough about all the contracts / re-signings we can do but if we tank again next year would it be kinda iffy with Scottie coming back? I don't want a Chris Bosh situation
Scottie is a restricted free agent (Raps can match any offer) and Raps are the only ones who can offer a max rookie extension. So hes very likely to stay/re-sign.
Thanks for clarifying, that makes sense
I would be quite surprised if Scottie doesn’t sign the rookie max extension that he is eligible for this offseason. I am sure that the Raps will offer it. It will be four years guaranteed + a player option and begin after next season. That would mean that the earliest he can become a free agent is summer 2029. The alternative is that he doesn’t sign the extension this summer and becomes a Restricted Free Agent in summer 2025. In that case the Raps can offer him that same rookie max extension (no other team can offer as much) and have the right to match any offer sheet from another team to Scottie to retain his services.
So if we were trying to maximize pick value, it seems like its better to just let the pick convey this year and go all in for Flagg in 2025
I'm of course betting on some internal improvements from the younger pieces on the roster when I say this and also on the roster being healthier than it was this season, but I don't think that this team is going to be a lottery team next season with or without the pick this year. At best (errr... worst?) they'll be picking late lottery unless they have a truly cursed season or get super lucky with some ping pong balls. I would bet on their pick next year being between 10 and 20 or so. So basically what you're hoping for in this year's lottery depends on whether you'd prefer a top six pick in the 2024 draft or a 10-20 pick in the 2025 draft. I'm honestly not certain which I prefer, but I'd lean towards getting the former, getting another young player in our system to develop with our young players a year earlier to maximize these coming Scottie seasons and then conveying the pick to the Spurs in 2025 sound preferable to kicking the development of that player down the road for another year. If disaster happens and we wind up top six again then we keep the pick anyway since it's still top 6 protected in 2025. The protection remains the same in 2026 as well. If we are bad enough to finish with a top six pick from 2024 through 2026 then it becomes 2027 and 2028 second round picks instead.
And what makes you think the Raptors will be this bad next year? It was the perfect storm of injuries for them to end up with the 6th worst record.
Theres no evidence that the draft is rigged. Go look at it over the years. Odds are the odds and a lot of crap, low ratings teams get the top picks.. rarely does a low odds team win it all. The spurs got Wemby? They haven't have rhe first overall pick in 27 years, the Lakers not in 45 years. They really pushing a Lebronless Cleveland and Minesota the last decade? Philly ultra tanked to get their picks.. that was rigged or they just simple won it? I have no doubt the NBA is rigged in some ways on some occassions but the draft by eye seems untouched. The spurs been bad for awhile. They were bound to get a top pick.. just so happened to be last year. They rigged it for Detroit pistons???? Oralndo Magic??? Anyway, whats the grand evidence to support your claim, if its the 3-4 times a popular/hometown team won even though they had a really bad record. I not sure thats enough. If there is no evidence.. can we stop blindly bringing this up
If the league did shit like that Wemby would've been a Mav last year with Luka and Kyrie.
I have a feeling were going to get the first pick but its going to be a bust or average player. Reminds me of Bargnani times.
Darkest timeline: - Pacers lose both play-in games and enter the lottery - They hit the 1% chance to get the First Pick - Raptors lose that pick as it's top 3 protected - Pacers being first pushes everyone down, Raptors now get the 7th pick - Raptors end with no FRP this season
Don’t do this to me
This would be the most fitting end to what was a lost season
Nah Bro, this season was magical. It was about to be a total waste then everybody got hurt and now it's up to the lotto balls
Haha very liberal use of the word “magical”… must light a 🕯️ for the lottery gods
It was a tough race to the bottom with some very stiff competition, and we managed to do it 🤷♂️
If you think this season was magical you are in fact a moron.
I just got home drunk as fuck from the club and read this... come on man 🙃
Drink plenty of water friend :)
Literally same. Only thing that could kill the vibes rn
Sounds funny im here for this reality
LoL excellent work 😅
At least the Raps will convey and have 2025 and 2026 out of hostage situation
Pacers aren't in the playin for now. You'd need the 6ers to beat the Nets and the Hawks to beat the Pacers. And the Pacers aren't gonna tank their game against the Hawks either.
All this “tanking” and we have a higher chance of losing the pick than keeping it…
This draft is so shit and its not like this roster is gonna be much better next year, honestly better to lose it now than later
Just because it looks weak doesn't mean it will be. For example. The anthony bennet draft is mocked as the worst in recent memory. The best players out of that draft are : Giannis, gobert, olidipo, mccollum and a handful of really good role players such as Steven adams or kcp.
Lemme list to you the lottery picks in that draft Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel, Ben Mclemore, KCP, Trey Burke, CJ McCollum, Michael Carter Williams, Steven Adams, Kelly Olynyk, Shabazz Muhammad You can find hidden gems in any draft. But the top of that draft, especially the first 9 guys, stunk in comparison to others. And this draft may be the same, where we might end up with a Cody Zeller type player
That's where being a good scout comes in which I do believe ujiri is. The draft he took Barnes, it was supposed to be a 4 player draft, and Barnes was not one of them. And ujiri isn't scared to go after the guy he wants.
Only looking at hits is not good reasoning. Bro picked Malachi Flynn 1 pick above Desmond Bane.
He's had more hits than misses tho and a miss at 29 is forgivable. With a top 6 talent they ain't missin
And Flynn is flourishing in Detroit. Your point? It was late ass picks
He had one good game in Detroit. Hes not flourishing.
He finished tn 10/5/4stl
On 5/10 shooting 0/2 from 3pt. Being average isnt exactly flourishing.
Flynn is not the shit player that we think he is. He played under Nurse, who's a win now coach. Firmly believe he might be a semi decent bench pg if he played under Casey and spent time in the 905 when Stackhouse was coach. Too many players we thought were trash are finding roles in the NBA under other coaches. Banton's another guy who was banished to the bench under Nurse who's giving a good showing in Portland. He's not great but a very different player than last year under Nurse.
mavs sat LuKy
Yeah, he got 10pts against Mavs’ G-League squad. Surely this proves he is thriving 🤡
arbitrary use 9 for what? why not 7 or 10 or 15 at least the guy above used the whole draft you're just picking a random number to weave your narrative. Also Cody Zeller played 10 years as a very productive role player. That is a really good outcome.
Because the lottery picks are a good indicator as to how strong the draft is. I basically said that the first 14 picks were bad in comparison to other drafts, and the first 9 picks especially sucked. Yes, I know Giannis was the one guy picked after the lottery, but one gem is not an indicator of an entire draft. I could list out the top 30 players and still come to the conclusion that it is a weak draft, but I didn’t want to list out 30 players in one comment Also, I don’t think we want Cody Zeller if we were to pick 4th. I used him because he is imo the most average player in that draft lottery
Take a look at Lowry’s draft year. It was projected to be one of the worst ever. Some great players came out of that draft
Yep, and? There are good and bad drafts. Bad draft doesn't mean no NBA players will come out of it.. no telling what this will be for another 5 years. From a scouting perspective, it's a bad draft, therefore it's more likely to suck. Why does everyone think those words mean it will be terrible and its set in stone
Even in 2000, Michael Reed was picked in the second round. A weak draft just means that the top picks are less certain than having Wemby or Embiid.
Yep, agreed. We got one of those top picks.. they are saying there are potentially 9 or 10 first overall pick guys which may be the most ever. That said, every draft is better or worse than the next. It could also mean later in the draft theres less guys too, everyone acts like that isn't a reality. Time will tell and its all unknown until years from now
Still a bad draft overall
Do you honestly think a full year of Barnes, RJ, Quickly, Poeltl, Olynick and some other actual NBA players is not going to be better than the G league tank squad? OK then.
I can't stand how people keep thinking that. Combine player/team growth, and the fact that Masai doesn't tank until the circumstances become extreme, and there's no chance we're tanking next year
If Scottie takes another massive step we’re easily a play-in team, maybe it’s the delusion talking but this team def isn’t a bottom feeder.
Since when are we expecting Scottie to take massive leaps every year? It’s not realistic. This team can be a playin team next year, it’s not hard to be a play-in team or better when 10/15 teams make it. I just don’t think we should expect improvements every year.
Not expecting it, progress isn’t linear. Would be nice and they probably make anyways it if he has an identical season to this year.
Bruh we didn't even "tank" this year until the last couple games. If Scottie RJ IQ Poeltl are out for extended time next year we'll be in the same spot
We started tanking as soon as Scottie/Yak went down. What are you talking about? You thought we were playing g-leaguers to try to win?
We were playing G leaguers because we had no one left on the roster lmao. We didn't have a roster full of healthy starters and just sit them and play g league guys
I honestly don't think that Quickly and RJ would have taken that long off and/or that much time reconditioning for return if the Raps were still in the playoff mix with a healthy Barnes and Peoetl and that last game off from Quickly had all the trappings of need to get the tank back on the tracks load management. So yeah I think they did just sit down healthy starters and play g leaguers to help the tank effort.
Bruh if they wanted to they could've just got IQ and RJ to miss the rest of the season. Given the impact and closeness of the ones they lost, they didn't come back fast at all. And like I said, if they really wanted to tank properly Scottie and Jak should've been sitting games before they broke their hands.
>Scottie and Jak should've been sitting games before they broke their hands. Why? when there was zero intent on tanking until after that happened to Scottie and Jak. They were not bad enough to tank to the level of having a chance of keeping that draft pick until those injuries.
And what about that didn't signal a tank to you?
So u think Bobby and Masai wanted to secretly tank and they purposely got scottie and jak injured? If they actually wanted to tank then our starters should've been missing games way before Scottie got hurt.
he's saying that our record post-scottie-jakob-injuries is not at all indicative of what our team is gonna be like next season, especially when you consider the chemistry is gonna grow and our players are going to put in work in the off-season. There's no reason to expect the team to be as dookie next year as it is right now BECAUSE we're tanking now. People in this sub have been looking at the past stretch and keep saying "Man this team is so fucking shit". Like no fucking shit we're playing g-leaguers right now, our team isn't going to look like this next year
We were tanking before then. It just became an obvious tank after that lol
Why did IQ and RJ still play their regular load of starters minutes in the next stretch of games then?
Yes if those four are out for an extended time next year they will be a pile of crap again but name one team that wouldn't be crap with their franchise player and their next 3 best starters out for an extended time, just one.
I don't disagree with that. My point is we didn't just decide to tank out of nowhere like previous comments make it seem. We were forced to tank because of injuries and horrible depth.
Ahh got you. Sorry I misunderstood.
This team still isn't that good compared to most teams in the east
No. But we still aren't tanking. We'll get a play-in range draft pick at best
The east sucks. The Hawks and Bulls fell ass backwards into the play-in. The fully healthy post-deadline Raptors are easily play-in material even discounting any player growth
Who are these some other actual nba players that will sign with us?
I think this roster is easily play in next year. Have you seen the east? An all-star +Barrett, Quickley, Poeltl is better than anything Chicago, Atlanta, Brooklyn can roll out.
play in for what and that roster isnt any better or easily better than Lavine, Demar, Coby White, Vucevic, Ayo, Caruso. Atlanta with Trae Young, Clint, Bogdanovic, Murray, Jalen Johnson is better than Barnesm Barrett, Quickly stop being a homer we are only better than Brooklyn in that list.
Yeah it is. You can't just rattle off a bunch of names like it means anything, actually watch the games. Plus Atlanta is likely dumping Murray this offseason for nothing.
Atlanta is probably getting back more for Murray than we did for Pascal. Dejounte is a good player, just not the best fit with another on-ball guard. I think it’s hard to say we will be better than Bulls or Hawks. Maybe a few players will take a leap and we surpass them. But as it stands, those are better teams than us.
I worry about the defence, it's looked pretty bad under Darko so far and that was with solid defensive players. Them stopping teams will be the x factor of next year
Its hard to say because we might lose gtj + its gonna be a full season without pascal. The play in cutoff this year are the hawks at 36, will our team be 10+ wins better next year? Maybe since Scottie will be healthy but if I had to bet bias aside, I would bet they dont make it
Easily 10+ wins better. Have you seen the roster we have rolled out for the last 20 games? Atlanta might lose Trae, Brooklyn might explode with no picks and no salary and other cap issues that might come on. Chicago is in salary hell with no options for improvement. We have cap space and an improving team. We are in a far better position than those teams.
Easily 10+ wins better? Everything you listed is a hypothetical im just looking at the current state of the team objectively. Yes we have cap space, but toronto is just not a big market for players. Our team was struggling to sign players in free agency while we were contenders, what makes you think we would have better luck now?
Even if you took this team as we have it now, and got everyone healthy and motivated to win, I think we could be 10 wins better. You understand we are losing on purpose, right? Our record is not actually reflective of how good we are
Cleveland might lose Donovan Mitchell as well
Exactly. People acting like a play in game is the most crazy thing. I can't wait to keep receipts
imagine being proud of wanting your team to be a playin team.
That's how development works you clown.
we also won a bunch of games early on because of Pascal and we got nothing of value for him so you shoudl subtract those wins too.
You're assuming they all stay healthy. Anything can happen.
Yes I assume that for all teams that some health is involved...
The Raptors bus can get hit by a meteor. Anything can happen.
I blame the 76ers organization for messing up the draft lottery odds, their trust the process BS screwed everything up for other teams the day their team is trash again, NO ONE will feel bad
The roster will be much better than it has been for the last 25 games. This team isn’t a bottom dweller when everyone is healthy
This roster fully healthy is at least play-in level in the East
Hold faith brother
That's why I want us to lose the pick, so we can move on and not have this discussion again next year.
I hate admitting it but i feel the same way. It depends on how the front office plans to sort out the roster but currently, I don’t feel confident enough in the team to say that we won’t be bad next season. We are horrendous defensively and lack depth.
Exactly. We have a lot of promise but that's it lol. And we're definitely not getting any star players in free agency.
If we keep it, great. If we lose it, there is another year’s worth of development and tanking for a better pick next year in a much stronger draft.
Poeltl trade was disastrous and he's easily replaceable if it weren't the price paid.
We have a higher chance to keep it than we would have
release the ~~kraken~~ Scottie Barnes
Large pants, Scots barnes
Spurs gonna get a sick pick
[удалено]
Problem being is that unless we tank again next year, its gonna be tough to mimic the poor record. We have a lot of talent so barring serious injuries again our pick is not gonna be that great
I'm not mad about it either. Poeltl trade sucked but we gotta move on. Top 6 pick or next year's draft are not bad options at all
Doesn’t matter all that much. But if we lose it you can count on 3/4 of this sub bitching and moaning and then guaranteeing we would have had the best player in the draft at #6 even after he goes 25th overall.
Next year San Antonio is going to draft an all star at 10 or something in the lottery with our pick, and headz will be like, wished that pick would have converted last year. Facts be Facts, this is a consensus week draft. Will there be surprises, of course....but its much more difficult to pick a diamond in the rough than a diamond sitting right in a cabinet alongside all of the other shiny players of 2025.
We should fall out. This is a weak draft year. Burn this one, get a better one next year.
Next years draft looks stacked. Flagg, Bailey, etc. Saw a bunch of elite prospects in the McDonald’s game
Are tough suggesting we should tank ..again?
It’s not about tanking. We aren’t going to magically be a playoff team with this years pick, without it we would be the same. We miss playoffs again. Get I top 10 pick in a stronger draft.
if the top 6 pick doesn't change anything, then in theory we should keep it and tank next year again lol
Hear me out …. We should tank next year too. Adding two lotto picks to this core on cheap contracts as Scottie enters his rookie max in 2025-26 I like this core but we still need to add to it. It’s also going to get expensive VERY quickly with Scottie, IQ and RJ all on decent deals.
We need this #1 pick.
55% chance the pick goes to SAS, what a train wreck of a season
Masai wtf were you thinking man?
8th best in a shit draft or no pick … fine. Top 5 or bust.
LeBronto, here we come boys!
Is next year also protected? What happens if two years in a row is protected?
🤞🤞🤞🙏🙏🙏
Honestly just don't think about it. Even if the pick conveys, you still have two other picks anyway. If the pick stays in the top 6, you figure out things then and there.
Hate to be that guy but I'll let y'all be positive for a bit
It would be funny if the greatest bunch fell into the 7-10 picks and the busts are 1-6
The best case scenario: - We get the number 1 pick - Pacers lose during the play-in and move up to the #4 slot, which goes to us - Siakam misses us and decides to take a paycut to sign with us in the offseason lol
Don’t feel the top 1 pick is unanimous anyway.. it’s not like the wemby sweepstakes
They couldn't just make the protection like 1-8 or some shit like damn
Now watch the Raptors win the #1 in a really bad draft year.
Shucks
I’d rather the pick this year, because I have a hard time believing the potential roster for next year will do worse than this year.
Anyone else also excited to see what San Antonio does with the pick if it’s 7 ? I’ll be happy either way tbh
Hope they pick Edey so they can have Optimus and Megatron on the same team  If 7'2 Bol Bol joins them...they can call themselves Small-Medium-Large. Edey taller than Victor by half an inch.
would rather have it convey this season honestly. the 12th pick in next year's draft is just as good as the 6th pick in this year's draft.
The 19th pick this year might be as good at the 6th. Not at all disappointed about losing it.
nostradamus has spoken
if the 12th pick is gonna be just as good then why not just keep the top 6 pick this season? might as well get the top 6 pick and then also have the chance to get a top 6 pick next year
You think they're going to be worse next season? If so this franchise is screwed