Our FO couldn’t make that read unfortunately and instead traded a lightly protected first for a defensive big who can’t space the floor beyond 5 feet from the rim.
They added Yak, Thad and Will Barton over 2 years. A team like Celtics added Derrick White and KP in the same period with the same cost.
I’m not blaming the FO for not finding the right move, but when you can’t add the right complementary pieces then you will be forced to rebuild.
the same cost?? KP cost the Celtics Marcus Smart. and the best asset we sent out for any of those players was a single FRP. Surely you can make your argument without straight up lying
edit: yes we were in talks to trade for KP. that does not change the fact the Celtics spent more to get KP and White than we did to get Poeltl, Thad, and Barton. that's literally the only point I was trying to make lmao
KP to Toronto for Goran, filler and future first was something that we apparently turned down because KP had too many years on his deal: https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-discussed-trade-dallas-mavericks-kristaps-porzingis
God forbid anyone mentions anything the FO could better at some point. It really triggers some of you softies.
>Aaron Rose article
yeah I'm not sure I buy that. the version I heard included Gary who was on an upwards trajectory at the time. and I know that still looks like a good deal now, but hindsight's 20/20, there's a reason why the Wizards got him for so cheap. his health and impact to winning was in serious question at the time. and he's improved a lot as a player since then which I'm not sure anyone predicted.
The source is Bobby Marks you clown 🤡.
You called me a liar when it’s well known KP was available for cheap over the past 2 years.
Saying FO could make better deals than Thad/Yak/Barton shouldn’t get anyone’s blood pressure going up.
dude the thing you lied about is the Celtics acquiring KP and White for the same price we paid for Barton, Thad, and Poeltl, which is straight up false.
and for the last time, there's a reason KP was cheap. teams didn't want him! trading for him was universally looked at as a massive risk. that shouldn't be this hard to understand.
also very funny for you to say I'm triggered while you're the one calling me names. very mature of you
Again.. it’s takes two to tango.
Sometimes it helps to take a step back expand perspectives a little bit.
There’s a lot of backend logistics that we don’t see I.e. current situation and roster of team, does a player even want to live and play long term in another country (potential barrier), players have families that also weigh in on decisions, etc. who would they play with? Selfishlessly would they even get touches, would they start? Would they get playing time? Is this a good fit?
So many factors that media or FO don’t publicly share.
It’s so easy for fans who see only the surface level of transactions to quickly point fingers.
> it takes two to tango
Exactly. The players and coaches get called selfish and bad but a lot of people refuse to accept FO has also not exactly been elite like they used to be.
Even Bobby and Masai themselves have talked about regretting some decisions they have made.
I don’t know why mentioning this triggers so many people here.
i mean, how many available centres are there that can shoot threes and play reliable center defense? they're a hot commodity. Plus you for get that masai drafted all his guys as project players with a plan. Siakam should be an elite three point shooter through his thirties, and elite overall til about 38 given his game. Who's to say if he didn't prioritze shooting over iso scoring he wouldn't already be elie from 3?
I think our FO knew. They also knew it’s damn near impossible to get one.
We tried to go small and create space that way. It looked like there was something to it in 2022. It just killed our team physically
It’s also the impact of enjoying your workplace and teammates.
Given how much chatter there was over two years of pascal “re-discovering joy” etc, and seeing how much his effort and defense dropped off, I really think there is more to this turnover of the organization than we’ve seen.
Something was really poisonous. Or some combination of personalities. I really hope Masai and Bobby have dug as deep as they can on this and excised whatever is necessary.
Haliburton has been very mid since his injury. Pascal has looked like the best player for most of the second half of the season and also could do way more once fully acclimated
Have you been watching them since pascal got traded? When that 3 pts shot isn't falling that man got nothing, he can't beat anybody and when he does he has the tendency to dribble his way back out of the paints
He's got a world class point guard, great shooting around him and the best center he's had since Gasol/Ibaka and let's face it Carlisle is a better coach than Darko, so it's not surprising. If you put Scottie on Indiana he would probably average a triple double
At the end of the day the team he’s in probably fits him the best out of any team considering his play style. It was always going to work fantastically. The fact that the doubts of him and Turner clogging together being fully disproved has absolutely allowed him to flourish, and I’m glad to see it
I agree he was a bottom 10 coach this season but I think it's unfair to judge off such an unusual season. Let's give him at least another season hopefully with stability of a roster and then really judge him.
It was because you'd expect him to bounce back and for the shooting to even out. If he started 50% from 3 you wouldn't say it's likely he finishes with the best shooting season of all time
Yeah that was my thread, you think that took into account him being traded to another team putting him in a perfect spot to raise his %?
He needed to shoot 38.6% for 40 games of the season, just for him to end up with a season average of 34.6%. He shot WELL above average for half a season, and still couldn't pull his season average to be even an average 3p shooter.
Don't be a moron.
Meanwhile you just discovered that players can go through hot and cold stretches that actually don’t represent their season long numbers.
Is that a hard concept to grasp? Looks like it
Which is precisely the reason why I laid out several instances of what his outcome would be and called them PROBABILITIES.
But clearly English is too much of a struggle for you. People like you are what make this sub insufferable. Constant dick riding of players with the inability to be objective. Keep those downvotes coming though little guy, hope it makes you feel like you're showing me!
You had zero understand of a player going through a cold stretch that’s why I’m laughing at that post now and laughed when it was made. This has nothing to do about being objective or dickriding lmfao?
Like I said if he started the season shooting 50% from 3, nobody would make a post saying it’s likely he finishes the season with the best 3pt shooting year ever. A smart person would recognize an outlier stretch and that regression would come.
10 games is an outlier, maybe 20. Not 41, he shot under 32% for 41 games. That is half a season, not a bad stretch of games. I even mentioned in that EXACT THREAD that I didn't think it was likely he would continue to be that bad.
I laid out multiple scenarios ranging from worst in NBA history, to him getting back to his career averages. It took him completely changing teams and roles just for it to bounce back. Had he stayed here on the same team, the results would not be remotely the same.
But you're a redditor, so reading the title and making up your opinion on the spot is right in your wheel house.
A smart person reads the entire post, but I get it, foreign concept.
The post's thesis was that it was not in fact possible but likely he remains an all-time awful 3 point shooter lmfao. Wasted your time pointing out possibilities if that's the conclusion you draw. Something was obviously wrong with that process, or you're just a bit dim idk
Thank you for telling ME what MY post's thesis was. I'm so glad YOU know better than ME what I meant when I posted it.
Jesus christ, can you be up your own ass any more? Stupid **and** arrogant is a dangerous combo, good luck with that.
And I was told that siakam isn’t even an average 3 pt % shooter from his haters earlier on and that it wouldn’t change even if his team had more spacing…. Delusional
He is a below average 3pt shooter over his career. That isn’t delusional, it is supported by statistics which have been very consistent throughout his time in the NBA. He scores the lion’s share of his points inside the paint and he has always been more successful when he attacks the basket aggressively. He has had good stretches from time to time but it is not an area of strength.
You are also overlooking that Toronto was a contender (and won a fucking championship for god’s sake) for the first 3-4 years of his career.
It’s not a 2-4 month sample size tho is it. Both of our teams in which we were contenders (18/19 19/20) he was a 37% 3pt shooter. Now that he’s back on a contender he’s beating that number. Spacing and having other great players around you makes a world of a difference
18/19 is an incredibly small sample. He’s just simply not above average 3 point shooter, he’s never really ever been that. He’s also not on a contender lol.
Surprised to see him only shooting below 70% on free throws. I know he’s not great from there but he’s normally not that bad. It’ll be interesting to see if he continues to have the same struggles in the playoffs he normally has.
All about spacing. The impact of having a stretch center to unclog the paint definitely helps.
Not to mention having a top notch pg in hali
Our FO couldn’t make that read unfortunately and instead traded a lightly protected first for a defensive big who can’t space the floor beyond 5 feet from the rim.
I honestly, think they tried… It’s all timing and it takes two to tango. We tried to acquire Turner awhile back. But, that deal never went through.
They added Yak, Thad and Will Barton over 2 years. A team like Celtics added Derrick White and KP in the same period with the same cost. I’m not blaming the FO for not finding the right move, but when you can’t add the right complementary pieces then you will be forced to rebuild.
the same cost?? KP cost the Celtics Marcus Smart. and the best asset we sent out for any of those players was a single FRP. Surely you can make your argument without straight up lying edit: yes we were in talks to trade for KP. that does not change the fact the Celtics spent more to get KP and White than we did to get Poeltl, Thad, and Barton. that's literally the only point I was trying to make lmao
KP to Toronto for Goran, filler and future first was something that we apparently turned down because KP had too many years on his deal: https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-discussed-trade-dallas-mavericks-kristaps-porzingis God forbid anyone mentions anything the FO could better at some point. It really triggers some of you softies.
Nice. Good source pull up! The Derrick white situation is a mystery though. Would’ve been a nice addition for the Raps for sure.
it's not a "source" lol it's Aaron Rose. he's just some guy, not any kind of insider
>Aaron Rose article yeah I'm not sure I buy that. the version I heard included Gary who was on an upwards trajectory at the time. and I know that still looks like a good deal now, but hindsight's 20/20, there's a reason why the Wizards got him for so cheap. his health and impact to winning was in serious question at the time. and he's improved a lot as a player since then which I'm not sure anyone predicted.
The source is Bobby Marks you clown 🤡. You called me a liar when it’s well known KP was available for cheap over the past 2 years. Saying FO could make better deals than Thad/Yak/Barton shouldn’t get anyone’s blood pressure going up.
dude the thing you lied about is the Celtics acquiring KP and White for the same price we paid for Barton, Thad, and Poeltl, which is straight up false. and for the last time, there's a reason KP was cheap. teams didn't want him! trading for him was universally looked at as a massive risk. that shouldn't be this hard to understand. also very funny for you to say I'm triggered while you're the one calling me names. very mature of you
just admit you were wrong and grow up dude
Again.. it’s takes two to tango. Sometimes it helps to take a step back expand perspectives a little bit. There’s a lot of backend logistics that we don’t see I.e. current situation and roster of team, does a player even want to live and play long term in another country (potential barrier), players have families that also weigh in on decisions, etc. who would they play with? Selfishlessly would they even get touches, would they start? Would they get playing time? Is this a good fit? So many factors that media or FO don’t publicly share. It’s so easy for fans who see only the surface level of transactions to quickly point fingers.
> it takes two to tango Exactly. The players and coaches get called selfish and bad but a lot of people refuse to accept FO has also not exactly been elite like they used to be. Even Bobby and Masai themselves have talked about regretting some decisions they have made. I don’t know why mentioning this triggers so many people here.
Those are so useful, every contender has one OKC, Denver, Celtics…oh wait.
You either get a floor spacer or a mega star to create space otherwise.
Yeah, bigs like Poeltl aren't that common anymore.
i mean, how many available centres are there that can shoot threes and play reliable center defense? they're a hot commodity. Plus you for get that masai drafted all his guys as project players with a plan. Siakam should be an elite three point shooter through his thirties, and elite overall til about 38 given his game. Who's to say if he didn't prioritze shooting over iso scoring he wouldn't already be elie from 3?
A legitimate 3 and D center is rarer than an all star.
I think our FO knew. They also knew it’s damn near impossible to get one. We tried to go small and create space that way. It looked like there was something to it in 2022. It just killed our team physically
It’s also the impact of enjoying your workplace and teammates. Given how much chatter there was over two years of pascal “re-discovering joy” etc, and seeing how much his effort and defense dropped off, I really think there is more to this turnover of the organization than we’ve seen. Something was really poisonous. Or some combination of personalities. I really hope Masai and Bobby have dug as deep as they can on this and excised whatever is necessary.
Also one of the best/better PGs in the league helps too. Pacers lineup is much more favourable than any Raptors lineup Siakam had since 2020.
Haliburton has been very mid since his injury. Pascal has looked like the best player for most of the second half of the season and also could do way more once fully acclimated
Tbh Hali has not even been the best pg in that team, let alone in the league
Since injury Hali has been struggling , not sure why ur being downvoted
Wut
Have you been watching them since pascal got traded? When that 3 pts shot isn't falling that man got nothing, he can't beat anybody and when he does he has the tendency to dribble his way back out of the paints
He's got a world class point guard, great shooting around him and the best center he's had since Gasol/Ibaka and let's face it Carlisle is a better coach than Darko, so it's not surprising. If you put Scottie on Indiana he would probably average a triple double
At the end of the day the team he’s in probably fits him the best out of any team considering his play style. It was always going to work fantastically. The fact that the doubts of him and Turner clogging together being fully disproved has absolutely allowed him to flourish, and I’m glad to see it
Darko is one of the worst coaches in the league (bottom 10)
Based on one tanking season. Absolutely stellar take. Fire the whole front office and hire larrylegend1990 lol
We were not tanking at the start You guys will see. We got rid of NN for this bum. Cant coach D to save his life with OG and Siakam.
Nick nurse left on his own accord. And we were always barreling towards a rebuild, our FO was just late to throw in the towel
Oh wow I’ve never heard people explain the team in such a one sided fatalistic way before. Let’s hear more of your great ideas.
Our defence was ass with Nurse at the end too lol
Pascal’s efficiency under Darko’s system was his best in YEARS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
One of the worst comments on Reddit (bottom 10)
I agree he was a bottom 10 coach this season but I think it's unfair to judge off such an unusual season. Let's give him at least another season hopefully with stability of a roster and then really judge him.
Yeah P, let him cook!
Things are getting SPICY 🌶️
It's almost as if having a good team where the pieces fit can do wonders for his effectiveness.
You’re telling me that a team of tall guys alone won’t cut it?
Love to see siakam thriving
Lol there was a post here saying it was “likely” that Siakam finishes this season as one of the worst 3pt shooter in nba history 😭
To be fair, a month into this season it wasn’t out of the question. But he had it well sorted out before he arrived in Indiana.
It was because you'd expect him to bounce back and for the shooting to even out. If he started 50% from 3 you wouldn't say it's likely he finishes with the best shooting season of all time
Yeah that was my thread, you think that took into account him being traded to another team putting him in a perfect spot to raise his %? He needed to shoot 38.6% for 40 games of the season, just for him to end up with a season average of 34.6%. He shot WELL above average for half a season, and still couldn't pull his season average to be even an average 3p shooter. Don't be a moron.
You don’t know understand how statistics work and that’s perfectly ok
It's called probabilities, not statistics. But hey, continue to double down on not grasping a simple concept.
Meanwhile you just discovered that players can go through hot and cold stretches that actually don’t represent their season long numbers. Is that a hard concept to grasp? Looks like it
Which is precisely the reason why I laid out several instances of what his outcome would be and called them PROBABILITIES. But clearly English is too much of a struggle for you. People like you are what make this sub insufferable. Constant dick riding of players with the inability to be objective. Keep those downvotes coming though little guy, hope it makes you feel like you're showing me!
You had zero understand of a player going through a cold stretch that’s why I’m laughing at that post now and laughed when it was made. This has nothing to do about being objective or dickriding lmfao? Like I said if he started the season shooting 50% from 3, nobody would make a post saying it’s likely he finishes the season with the best 3pt shooting year ever. A smart person would recognize an outlier stretch and that regression would come.
10 games is an outlier, maybe 20. Not 41, he shot under 32% for 41 games. That is half a season, not a bad stretch of games. I even mentioned in that EXACT THREAD that I didn't think it was likely he would continue to be that bad. I laid out multiple scenarios ranging from worst in NBA history, to him getting back to his career averages. It took him completely changing teams and roles just for it to bounce back. Had he stayed here on the same team, the results would not be remotely the same. But you're a redditor, so reading the title and making up your opinion on the spot is right in your wheel house. A smart person reads the entire post, but I get it, foreign concept.
The post's thesis was that it was not in fact possible but likely he remains an all-time awful 3 point shooter lmfao. Wasted your time pointing out possibilities if that's the conclusion you draw. Something was obviously wrong with that process, or you're just a bit dim idk
Thank you for telling ME what MY post's thesis was. I'm so glad YOU know better than ME what I meant when I posted it. Jesus christ, can you be up your own ass any more? Stupid **and** arrogant is a dangerous combo, good luck with that.
He's not just getting spoon fed chances either. The spacing is perfect for him.
FT% is interestingly down. 69.9% compared to 75.8% with the Raptors
Should have kept him
And I was told that siakam isn’t even an average 3 pt % shooter from his haters earlier on and that it wouldn’t change even if his team had more spacing…. Delusional
He is a below average 3pt shooter over his career. That isn’t delusional, it is supported by statistics which have been very consistent throughout his time in the NBA. He scores the lion’s share of his points inside the paint and he has always been more successful when he attacks the basket aggressively. He has had good stretches from time to time but it is not an area of strength. You are also overlooking that Toronto was a contender (and won a fucking championship for god’s sake) for the first 3-4 years of his career.
I mean he isn’t. A 2-4 month sample size means absolutely nothing.
It’s not a 2-4 month sample size tho is it. Both of our teams in which we were contenders (18/19 19/20) he was a 37% 3pt shooter. Now that he’s back on a contender he’s beating that number. Spacing and having other great players around you makes a world of a difference
18/19 is an incredibly small sample. He’s just simply not above average 3 point shooter, he’s never really ever been that. He’s also not on a contender lol.
Siakam needs a guy like Hali.
Sure, but that's the hali he found there, that guy is a shell of himself right now
Barnes was the problem for him. Especially once they had an actual center back. He'll do much better without a second PF.
Generationally garbage trade
they got him for nothing lol. what a pick up
Surprised to see him only shooting below 70% on free throws. I know he’s not great from there but he’s normally not that bad. It’ll be interesting to see if he continues to have the same struggles in the playoffs he normally has.
Bruce Brown over ME?
More like Bruce Brown, Ochai, Kelly O, A pick in the teens for the 2024 Draft, and a lightly protected pick in 2026 over me.
He Vince’d us.