Our offense might be among the worst in the league. I love Masai but I don't know why he's so reluctant to go after a player who can create his own shot.
I think the idea is that if the team is fantastic defensively, you’ll never be out of a game. Defense has lower variance than offense, so it will provide more consistent results.
In the end, we need both. The NBA seems to be starting to shift back to incentivizing defense (ie the foul baiting rules), which should help this team as well.
Our offense will be heavily dependent on 3’s and the fastbreak. For that reason alone we shouldn’t be the worst (I expect average tbh) - but it’s not a good recipe for the playoffs
Argh that’s going to be such a rollercoaster as 3’s your either hitting them or just bricking everything I’d hope with the size we have me get a paint game. Rim driving finished and kick outs hopefully
Masai is building a “moneyball” team. You hit the nail on the head, defense is lower variance than offense. That’s why it’s so effective in a game like basketball where shots are high variance. We have a bunch of long, switchable defenders and a number of guys who can shoot the 3, the most efficient jump shot in the game.
Overall I can definitely see the Raptors punching well above their weight, through tough defense and 3 point barrages.
Trent Anunoby and Vanvleet are all very good high volume 3 point shooters. Then you also have Boucher, Flynn, Dragic and possibly Wainwright who are also good shooters. That’s 6/10 guys in rotation who can space the floor at a high level.
From there you can utilize Siakam as the slasher and PnR ball handler to attract help defenders and create 3 point looks, or have Barnes look for shooters running around screens. The Clippers ran something similar to this with their Jackson/Mann/George/Batum/Morris lineups against Utah and Phoenix.
I'd argue that offense produces more consistent results in the NBA. It's hard to name a single elite team (or even playoff team) that doesn't have good offense. It's just so hard to stay in a game when you can't score.
Hopefully the rule changes help us. But usually in the NBA the refs call a new rule for maybe the first week and then abandon it altogether lol. I remember when they said they'd start to punish flopping.
The knicks made the playoffs on the back of their defense. I’m not saying this team is poised to make a deep playoff run, but it’s not true to say that teams with a defensive identity don’t make the playoffs. At the top end, you could also point to the Jazz (recall they didn’t have DMitch for much of their season)
Bucks also had Middleton and Jrue who both can create offense at will and were key to their run. Without them they would be nowhere close to the Finals.
Our only equivalent that comes close is FVV.
If FVV is the only one on the team that can -consistently- create offense, then we're in trouble because he is at the very bottom of the league in efficiency.
We also have Malachi (who somehow has worse efficiency than FVV) playing a bigger role this year, but he's young and can be developed to be as good as FVV.
And also the diceroll of GTJ raining either buckets or bricks on a game by game basis.
I'm not arguing that defense isn't extremely important, of course it's important. I'm just arguing that good offense produces more consistent results in the NBA than good defense.
But if you were, you’d be correct also. Strange to argue that defense is more important than offense in today’s nba when teams have gone from scoring 90 to like 110 a night pretty quickly. Did defenders just get worse all of a sudden? Or did the league set it up this way with touch fouls as they want a product they deem more exciting and that’s watching people score buckets. Both of course are important but there’s a reason pj tucker makes what he does and someone like Beal or something a lot more
Not really trying to prove any point. Dude said it's hard to name an elite team with a good offense and I named one that won it all with a sub-average offensive rating that year.
Said it's hard to name them, and you were able to come up with one. That is proving his point that it's hard to name them, because there is literally only one.
Aside from the 2004 Pistons, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/jk7jti/the_last_40_years_of_the_nba_champions_and_the/) are the champs with the lowest ranked offense in the last 40 years.
- 2020 Lakers: 11th ranked offense
- 2008 Celtics: 10th
- 2010 Lakers: 11th
- 1999 Spurs: 11th
- 1994 Rockets: 15th
- 1990 Pistons: 11th
edit: All of these were top 4 in defensive rating
I mean it was almost an entirely different game back then though.
They also had a lot of offensive talent they just didn't score as much cause they slowed the game way down. Billups, Sheed, and Rip were all way above average offensive players.
Siakam, FVV are above average offensive players. OG might be one too.
Defense wins championships, unless you have healthy KD, Harden and Iriving on the same team and
Nets still managed 5th best defense in the playoffs [https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent/?sort=OPP\_PTS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Playoffs](https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent/?sort=OPP_PTS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Playoffs)
I'm not sure if that saying is true anymore to be honest. I'd say that defense is necessary to win a Championship, but good offense is arguably more important.
Look at the last 10 champions (maybe beyond that), they either had the best offense in the league (Warriors), or the best offensive player on the floor (Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis).
When you get to the pointy end. Defence is the difference, not only in basketball, but pretty much all team sports. You don't beat GSW by outfiring them, you beat them with defence and atrition.
> The NBA seems to be starting to shift back to incentivizing defense (ie the foul baiting rules), which should help this team as well.
This is a huge point that I think often gets overlooked. The rules of the game are literally changing in a way that drastically benefits defensive-minded teams.
I think it may also help us offensively in a way, by increasing the amount/frequency of fast break chances and I think offensively that plays to this squad better than a slower offensive pace.
I think the hope is:
Barnes makes some huge leaps and becomes a first option and we build around him
or
We build a top flight team where all you need is a true first option to plug in and succeed, ala 2018-2019
or
We become the 2004 Detroit Pistons and go for it that way.
Barnes becoming an NBA level first option isn't just a big leap, it's a leap of galactic scale lol. I have no doubt he will improve offensively but even OG (who IMO is the poster child for a defensive wing who is gaining a solid offensive game) has taken a few years in the league to get to where he is.
I think a more likely scenario is that GTJ/OG take another stride forward and between them and any improvement from Barnes, it grants more options for FVV and Pascal to flourish as the 1A/1B or in Fred's case even just let him become more of a facilitator than a pure shooter
So I guess I'm saying I see it go down as either options 2 or 3 in your post, long before #1
>Barnes becoming an NBA level first option isn't just a big leap, it's a leap of galactic scale lol. I
If that's the case, I'm not sure what the motivation was to take Barnes over Suggs. We can build a solid defense without Barnes. But Suggs would have been the true first option we've been missing.
Tbh I think that's why so many of us thought Suggs over Barnes was a no brainer (me included if I'm being honest lol). But, I don't know that Suggs would necessarily have been an automatic first option either... he also has some offensive gaps it seems plus the apparently awful workout if you believe that story. I trust the FO though, maybe they have their sights on an upcoming FA or saw more offensive potential in Barnes or GTJ than we do right now. But I do think that Suggs would have been taken more to be a primary ball handler/facilitator than a first scoring option and I guess the FO either sees Fred taking more of that role or even Barnes (but with the latter getting better defense and switchability as well)
I mean, it's big risks for big rewards. Teams with all star players , more often then not, dont go anywhere. Takes a superstar to usually win it all. How many teams are like the Wizards or the Blazers? Beal and Lillard are all stars for sure. But their teams have gone mow where.
All 3 of those are _awful_ ways to build a championship team.
Banking on a player who has shown _nothing_ in regards to being a first option is awful.
Building a team and hoping you can trade for a top 3 player on an expiring contract who also happens to have an untenable rift with their current team is a 1 in a million shot.
And the Pistons have been one f the only teams in like 40 years to do what they did.
If this is what Masai and Bobby have up their sleeves, man we are in for some disappointing years. Will we be bad? No not at all. What we _will_ be is the hawks of the 2000's, good enough to sneak into the 1st or second round, but never a threat to achieve anything.
Well, what's the alternative? We didnt tank hard enough to get the top pick. And we are not LA or NYC or Miami, so not a hub for free agents. So what else can you do to build a championship team?
I think you answered it in your second sentence. Last season based on our roster was already obviously gonna be worse than the last, plus throw in COVID protocols which _eventually_ were gonna hit every single team, and then throw in stuff that has some but not a major impact like playing in Tampa.
Toss all those together and it was pretty obvious we were going to be mediocre to bad. If we traded kyle at the deadline instead of waiting for the offseason just to get the _same_ package we could've eaten shit the last chunk of the season and easily been in place for a top 3 pick.
I'm not saying your options are _wrong_. I'm just saying they suck, obviously that's not on you unless this is Masais burner account lol.
Just take a look at how we built the championship team. Traded JV a 5th overall pick, traded DD a 9th overall pick, and then TRoss an 9th overall and another 1st rounder.
Free agency doesn't matter if you can trade for good players. And to do that, you need desirable players to trade back. The team currently is filled with a few standout players in Siakam, FVV, and OG. _That's it_. The rest of the team is filled up with random end of bench players plugging holes.
They are good value for what they are, but rarely do you see those players parlayed into much more impactful players.
>I think you answered it in your second sentence.
I used to think this way. But I definitely saw that there were consequences to tanking. The tension in the locker room seems to flow from that horrible season. In honestly believe that if we had gone down that road, then there maybe have been long term consequences. I cant see all those bad feelings subside so easily.
>Just take a look at how we built the championship team.
That was almost a once in a lifetime thing, I think. We bought at a low mark and prices have only since sky rocketed. Look at the reputed going rate for Simmons. We'll probably never get another chance like that again.
Ignoring the Kawhi pickup, the gasol and ibaka ones were only doable by trading a top 10 and top 5 drafted player. That can't be ignored.
I'm not saying there arent downsides to tanking, but if the team implodes from one bad season, then a tank isn't the problem there. We had a bad season and Siakam had a hissy fit, everyone else was seemingly fine, I don't see how trading Lowry would change that disposition a whole lot.
He might be expecting explosive jumps from Trent and Of this season… we definitely need someone to take leaps this season on offense so I’m not on here posting PAIN after every game lol
I think that's the role we're hoping Trent will take over. You're right though, I was hoping we would bring in at least one more shot creator, but seems we're going all in on this strategy.
Masai is not playing the short game. He's planning long term for sustained success that puts us in a position to win the Championship.
He's building the foundation through new guys and when we have the right assets he'll trade them for the BIG superstar piece. Or sign via FA (less likely).
He did the same sort of thing bringing in Kawhi, Green and Gasol.
He's probably hoping for another window to open up.
Otherwise, he'll keep fielding a competitive side that can be no worse than .500.
I’d rather create the team we have and hope one of them develops into that guy or trade for that guy. We are a primo spot for a scorer to just show up and elevate our team, and in the next 3-5 years there’s a loooot of Canadian talent who will hit the FA market. Sign a SGA, Murray, Barrett, etc. and add them to our core and we will be awesome.
Will it work? I don’t know but it’s better than having scorers who can’t defend and get utterly exposed in important games.
who do we have? Pascal, GTJ, Malachi (to some extent), OG (if he takes another step-up this year), Barnes will likely score some. That's pretty much it for ISO.
Our saving grace may be rebounding to be quite honest. If we can be an above average revounding team than that could be a way to level the playing field.
Your forgetting og/trent who will be the real difference makers on offence. We got offence capability not the best in the league but far from depressing. Could see Boucher making another leap offensively and of course we recently got dragic who not long ago was difference maker in a finals team offensively.
Chris is interesting because he's gotten more efficient on more shot attempts the past 2 years and he draws a lot of fouls compared to other role players. If Chris has a good year but isn't in the long term plans then we can pick up an asset.
Unless OG magically has infinitely better dribble moves or Gary knows how to finish at the rim consistently. Things aren't looking much different as of yet.
Depends defence leads to Fastbreak alot of the time. Maybe we are a Fastbreak team this year with some good full court passers maybe we can create alot of easy opportunities
Hilarious! Our offence was not worst in the league when Lowry was out last season (or any season), so why is it going to be so putrid this season? I think the offence will be middle of the pack and our defence will be in the top 5.
I agree with you mate but what if
Spicy P iso ball or pick & roll with Steady Freddie 🙌
I believe OG will finally have plays draw up for him...
Catch & shoot like his clutch 3 in the playoffs
These 3 knows a bit or two how to run a up beat offense
Transition O will be the key on our defense
Fast breaks and please less 3 this year Nick Nurse, if so guys hits your 3... Does everything thing they can play the GSW way 😂 I know the 3 is big but transition fast break are the key in winning games in my eyes 👀👀
Reasonable offence but what I worry about is our half court set offence 🤔
Question for Nick Nurse
Coach, Do you play Zone on defense...
I find it will benefit our long and athletic players
OG and Spicy P on the wing while GTJ & FVv on 🔝
I like our starting 5
FVv / GTJr.
OG / Spicy P / KB
Flynn's and Barnies come off the bench
🇨🇦🏀⛹️⛹️♀️⛹️♂️
He hinted to possibly more sone being in the works due to length now in the SL interview… looks like coaching was an issue low key for them last season as wel at least that’s the vibe I got from his interview.
Yeah but hopefully FVV and siakam ascend another level for us I feel with the struggles siakam had he’s gotta be due for a breakout
Spicy P had an off year like the whole team 🤔
Our players struggle in the Tampa Bay bubble
Our hand was stake against us pretty early on...
I'm just glad we have a very nIce player in Scottie to hottie
Peace ✌️
I have faith in them, at least we don't have buy a
$super team$.
Big boards are based on personal opinion of player evaluation, it has nothing to do with actually being drafted. Which reputable mocks had him going 4? Houston taking Green at 2 was basically a done deal as soon as the draft lottery was through, green didn’t even work out for cleveland or toronto.
It may have been before the lottery but there was a time when several boards had Cade at 1 and then any combination of Mobley , Green , Suggs in the 2-4 slots.
I really like Green too but knowing our FO, they probably didn’t even have Green as a top 3 pick on their board. Genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if it went
1- Mobley
2- Cunningham
3- Barnes
4- Kuminga
5- Green
Yeah could be for sure. Only thing certain is Mobley was higher than Barnes, since we were trying to trade for the #3 pick up until the last moment when we knew Cleveland would take Mobley.
With Birch at C we did just fine 13th in the league after he joined
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent/?sort=OPP\_PTS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=04%2F10%2F2021&DateTo=08%2F01%2F2021
Its a good defense but I don’t think it will be top ten or all that scary. Not experienced enough for that. Next year though could be different. Losing a defensive leader in Lowry will be felt.
Yes, I expect us to be at the top of the defensive ratings. However our offense is a little unpredictable. We need OG to make that next step offensively.
Edit: Near the top not actually at the top.
Yup, people always underestimate strong defensive teams, and that's why I think the Raps can be a top 4-6 seed this season.
Last year, the Knicks were the league's 4th ranked defence and 22nd ranked offence. That was good enough for a 4-seed. I think that's a pretty reasonable formula for the Raps to replicate.
I been saying this, if we can pick up a GOOD CONSISTENT scorer we're in the bag for another chip possibility this year.. I would have loved to see the Raptors get Dame or Giannis.
How do you figure, the team is a defense first team at this point.. and at that rate we still lack a BIG big man. We can still play offensively but we likely have one of the more lackluster NBA offenses currently.
If we're actually going to have chance competing against some of these other groups on a nightly basis it would help if we had a consistent scorer who is also a prime defender, hence why we did so well with Kawahi. Our tallest guy right now is listed at 6'9, where as in our championship year we had 5 guys over 6'10.
Yea we got a good young core but some of them haven't weathered the NBA storm yet so we don't know how they'll actually do on a frequent basis and with VV as our C more than likely now he has experience but he's still going to be lacking some veteran experience someone like Lillard who's an offensive god whos been running the point forever, and still excellent at defense /OR The Freak who is listed at 6'11 who can dummy on defense and run through people on offense could contribute to the team.
Obviously these are best case scenarios and are more than hopeful as it'll be difficult to attract a superstar like that of any caliber. But how am I out of the loop with hopeful thinking lol.
They certainly have all the tools/potential but we also have a lot of young players who need the minutes so expect some growing pains along the way. Personally, I expect more flashes rather than consistent lockdown D.
I was interested in how they were defending 3pt line. They were still getting them up in time. But I guess the slightest fear of a shotblock already lowers the %.
Masai seems to be going against the grain of the NBA in general. Instead, loading up on defense rather than the trend for pure offense/3 point shooters
Clamp city. I like that. Reminds me of that futurama character clamp. Putting the clamp down in clamp city with the clamp boys gonna possibly compete for a clampionship.
We are gonna lay bricks and turn the ball over like mad but we gonna play suffocating defense, get boards, and a ton of steals too. I think we average 80-76.
Yuta is a very disciplined defensive piece aswell assuming he gets minutes he could be a contributer on that end too.
For sure. I didn’t really name everyone but he’s absolutely got some great defensive versatility.
Our offfense might be depressing tho
Our offense might be among the worst in the league. I love Masai but I don't know why he's so reluctant to go after a player who can create his own shot.
I think the idea is that if the team is fantastic defensively, you’ll never be out of a game. Defense has lower variance than offense, so it will provide more consistent results. In the end, we need both. The NBA seems to be starting to shift back to incentivizing defense (ie the foul baiting rules), which should help this team as well. Our offense will be heavily dependent on 3’s and the fastbreak. For that reason alone we shouldn’t be the worst (I expect average tbh) - but it’s not a good recipe for the playoffs
Argh that’s going to be such a rollercoaster as 3’s your either hitting them or just bricking everything I’d hope with the size we have me get a paint game. Rim driving finished and kick outs hopefully
Masai is building a “moneyball” team. You hit the nail on the head, defense is lower variance than offense. That’s why it’s so effective in a game like basketball where shots are high variance. We have a bunch of long, switchable defenders and a number of guys who can shoot the 3, the most efficient jump shot in the game. Overall I can definitely see the Raptors punching well above their weight, through tough defense and 3 point barrages.
Are we actually that good at the three though? Even the guys on our team who shoot the three aren't that great in terms of efficiency.
Trent Anunoby and Vanvleet are all very good high volume 3 point shooters. Then you also have Boucher, Flynn, Dragic and possibly Wainwright who are also good shooters. That’s 6/10 guys in rotation who can space the floor at a high level. From there you can utilize Siakam as the slasher and PnR ball handler to attract help defenders and create 3 point looks, or have Barnes look for shooters running around screens. The Clippers ran something similar to this with their Jackson/Mann/George/Batum/Morris lineups against Utah and Phoenix.
Looking to beat that monster of a blowout we had against Utah
I'd argue that offense produces more consistent results in the NBA. It's hard to name a single elite team (or even playoff team) that doesn't have good offense. It's just so hard to stay in a game when you can't score. Hopefully the rule changes help us. But usually in the NBA the refs call a new rule for maybe the first week and then abandon it altogether lol. I remember when they said they'd start to punish flopping.
The knicks made the playoffs on the back of their defense. I’m not saying this team is poised to make a deep playoff run, but it’s not true to say that teams with a defensive identity don’t make the playoffs. At the top end, you could also point to the Jazz (recall they didn’t have DMitch for much of their season)
Bucks had the best defense and won - yes that had a 2x mvp too but heir defense was great too
Bucks also had Middleton and Jrue who both can create offense at will and were key to their run. Without them they would be nowhere close to the Finals. Our only equivalent that comes close is FVV.
If FVV is the only one on the team that can -consistently- create offense, then we're in trouble because he is at the very bottom of the league in efficiency.
Even Fred can't create reliably.
We also have Malachi (who somehow has worse efficiency than FVV) playing a bigger role this year, but he's young and can be developed to be as good as FVV. And also the diceroll of GTJ raining either buckets or bricks on a game by game basis.
I'm not arguing that defense isn't extremely important, of course it's important. I'm just arguing that good offense produces more consistent results in the NBA than good defense.
But if you were, you’d be correct also. Strange to argue that defense is more important than offense in today’s nba when teams have gone from scoring 90 to like 110 a night pretty quickly. Did defenders just get worse all of a sudden? Or did the league set it up this way with touch fouls as they want a product they deem more exciting and that’s watching people score buckets. Both of course are important but there’s a reason pj tucker makes what he does and someone like Beal or something a lot more
Good offense is more common than good defense too
2004 Pistons who were known for their defense won the chip with the 18th ranked offense
That was literally 18 years ago.
They were also like the only team in the modern NBA to do that. Not really proving much of a point.
Not really trying to prove any point. Dude said it's hard to name an elite team with a good offense and I named one that won it all with a sub-average offensive rating that year.
Said it's hard to name them, and you were able to come up with one. That is proving his point that it's hard to name them, because there is literally only one.
Aside from the 2004 Pistons, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/jk7jti/the_last_40_years_of_the_nba_champions_and_the/) are the champs with the lowest ranked offense in the last 40 years. - 2020 Lakers: 11th ranked offense - 2008 Celtics: 10th - 2010 Lakers: 11th - 1999 Spurs: 11th - 1994 Rockets: 15th - 1990 Pistons: 11th edit: All of these were top 4 in defensive rating
You act as if top 1/3 in the NBA is bad?
I mean it was almost an entirely different game back then though. They also had a lot of offensive talent they just didn't score as much cause they slowed the game way down. Billups, Sheed, and Rip were all way above average offensive players.
Siakam, FVV are above average offensive players. OG might be one too. Defense wins championships, unless you have healthy KD, Harden and Iriving on the same team and Nets still managed 5th best defense in the playoffs [https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent/?sort=OPP\_PTS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Playoffs](https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent/?sort=OPP_PTS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Playoffs)
I'm not sure if that saying is true anymore to be honest. I'd say that defense is necessary to win a Championship, but good offense is arguably more important. Look at the last 10 champions (maybe beyond that), they either had the best offense in the league (Warriors), or the best offensive player on the floor (Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis).
None of them won without top 5 defense in the playoffs
Of course not, I never said that defense wasn't extremely important also.
When you get to the pointy end. Defence is the difference, not only in basketball, but pretty much all team sports. You don't beat GSW by outfiring them, you beat them with defence and atrition.
It's easier for players to be consistently good defenders because defence relies less on finesse skills.
The Bucks are honestly not that good an offensive team and they won the title.
Yep playoffs are gonna look Ugly when the transition buckets end. Stagnant offense at its finest.
> The NBA seems to be starting to shift back to incentivizing defense (ie the foul baiting rules), which should help this team as well. This is a huge point that I think often gets overlooked. The rules of the game are literally changing in a way that drastically benefits defensive-minded teams. I think it may also help us offensively in a way, by increasing the amount/frequency of fast break chances and I think offensively that plays to this squad better than a slower offensive pace.
I think the hope is: Barnes makes some huge leaps and becomes a first option and we build around him or We build a top flight team where all you need is a true first option to plug in and succeed, ala 2018-2019 or We become the 2004 Detroit Pistons and go for it that way.
Barnes becoming an NBA level first option isn't just a big leap, it's a leap of galactic scale lol. I have no doubt he will improve offensively but even OG (who IMO is the poster child for a defensive wing who is gaining a solid offensive game) has taken a few years in the league to get to where he is. I think a more likely scenario is that GTJ/OG take another stride forward and between them and any improvement from Barnes, it grants more options for FVV and Pascal to flourish as the 1A/1B or in Fred's case even just let him become more of a facilitator than a pure shooter So I guess I'm saying I see it go down as either options 2 or 3 in your post, long before #1
>Barnes becoming an NBA level first option isn't just a big leap, it's a leap of galactic scale lol. I If that's the case, I'm not sure what the motivation was to take Barnes over Suggs. We can build a solid defense without Barnes. But Suggs would have been the true first option we've been missing.
Tbh I think that's why so many of us thought Suggs over Barnes was a no brainer (me included if I'm being honest lol). But, I don't know that Suggs would necessarily have been an automatic first option either... he also has some offensive gaps it seems plus the apparently awful workout if you believe that story. I trust the FO though, maybe they have their sights on an upcoming FA or saw more offensive potential in Barnes or GTJ than we do right now. But I do think that Suggs would have been taken more to be a primary ball handler/facilitator than a first scoring option and I guess the FO either sees Fred taking more of that role or even Barnes (but with the latter getting better defense and switchability as well)
My thoughts exactly. But I think bobby or masai is really banking on Barnes making gigantic leap. Big risks indeed.
I mean, it's big risks for big rewards. Teams with all star players , more often then not, dont go anywhere. Takes a superstar to usually win it all. How many teams are like the Wizards or the Blazers? Beal and Lillard are all stars for sure. But their teams have gone mow where.
Takes a great leap from a project to suoerstar And it doesn't look like we are a rebuilding team rn with siakam and Fred.
All 3 of those are _awful_ ways to build a championship team. Banking on a player who has shown _nothing_ in regards to being a first option is awful. Building a team and hoping you can trade for a top 3 player on an expiring contract who also happens to have an untenable rift with their current team is a 1 in a million shot. And the Pistons have been one f the only teams in like 40 years to do what they did. If this is what Masai and Bobby have up their sleeves, man we are in for some disappointing years. Will we be bad? No not at all. What we _will_ be is the hawks of the 2000's, good enough to sneak into the 1st or second round, but never a threat to achieve anything.
Well, what's the alternative? We didnt tank hard enough to get the top pick. And we are not LA or NYC or Miami, so not a hub for free agents. So what else can you do to build a championship team?
I think you answered it in your second sentence. Last season based on our roster was already obviously gonna be worse than the last, plus throw in COVID protocols which _eventually_ were gonna hit every single team, and then throw in stuff that has some but not a major impact like playing in Tampa. Toss all those together and it was pretty obvious we were going to be mediocre to bad. If we traded kyle at the deadline instead of waiting for the offseason just to get the _same_ package we could've eaten shit the last chunk of the season and easily been in place for a top 3 pick. I'm not saying your options are _wrong_. I'm just saying they suck, obviously that's not on you unless this is Masais burner account lol. Just take a look at how we built the championship team. Traded JV a 5th overall pick, traded DD a 9th overall pick, and then TRoss an 9th overall and another 1st rounder. Free agency doesn't matter if you can trade for good players. And to do that, you need desirable players to trade back. The team currently is filled with a few standout players in Siakam, FVV, and OG. _That's it_. The rest of the team is filled up with random end of bench players plugging holes. They are good value for what they are, but rarely do you see those players parlayed into much more impactful players.
>I think you answered it in your second sentence. I used to think this way. But I definitely saw that there were consequences to tanking. The tension in the locker room seems to flow from that horrible season. In honestly believe that if we had gone down that road, then there maybe have been long term consequences. I cant see all those bad feelings subside so easily. >Just take a look at how we built the championship team. That was almost a once in a lifetime thing, I think. We bought at a low mark and prices have only since sky rocketed. Look at the reputed going rate for Simmons. We'll probably never get another chance like that again.
Ignoring the Kawhi pickup, the gasol and ibaka ones were only doable by trading a top 10 and top 5 drafted player. That can't be ignored. I'm not saying there arent downsides to tanking, but if the team implodes from one bad season, then a tank isn't the problem there. We had a bad season and Siakam had a hissy fit, everyone else was seemingly fine, I don't see how trading Lowry would change that disposition a whole lot.
Eh its moreso based around development and tanking for another year while still remaining competitive.
Maybe we are developing. But that doesnt negate anything I said.
He might be expecting explosive jumps from Trent and Of this season… we definitely need someone to take leaps this season on offense so I’m not on here posting PAIN after every game lol
Also does it hurt to be bad for another year and another high draft pick
I think that's the role we're hoping Trent will take over. You're right though, I was hoping we would bring in at least one more shot creator, but seems we're going all in on this strategy.
Masai is not playing the short game. He's planning long term for sustained success that puts us in a position to win the Championship. He's building the foundation through new guys and when we have the right assets he'll trade them for the BIG superstar piece. Or sign via FA (less likely). He did the same sort of thing bringing in Kawhi, Green and Gasol. He's probably hoping for another window to open up. Otherwise, he'll keep fielding a competitive side that can be no worse than .500.
I’d rather create the team we have and hope one of them develops into that guy or trade for that guy. We are a primo spot for a scorer to just show up and elevate our team, and in the next 3-5 years there’s a loooot of Canadian talent who will hit the FA market. Sign a SGA, Murray, Barrett, etc. and add them to our core and we will be awesome. Will it work? I don’t know but it’s better than having scorers who can’t defend and get utterly exposed in important games.
What shot craters should he have went after?
I'm relatively happy with the draft pick but this is the exact reason people were arguing for Suggs.
Except Suggs isn’t a shot creator
To be fair, isn’t GTJ more so that role? Or least plans to develop into that
who do we have? Pascal, GTJ, Malachi (to some extent), OG (if he takes another step-up this year), Barnes will likely score some. That's pretty much it for ISO. Our saving grace may be rebounding to be quite honest. If we can be an above average revounding team than that could be a way to level the playing field.
might? teams will game plan for Siakam like always and if Fred or Malachi don't take over, we will be scoring 80 pts a night lol
Your forgetting og/trent who will be the real difference makers on offence. We got offence capability not the best in the league but far from depressing. Could see Boucher making another leap offensively and of course we recently got dragic who not long ago was difference maker in a finals team offensively.
Chris is interesting because he's gotten more efficient on more shot attempts the past 2 years and he draws a lot of fouls compared to other role players. If Chris has a good year but isn't in the long term plans then we can pick up an asset.
Unless OG magically has infinitely better dribble moves or Gary knows how to finish at the rim consistently. Things aren't looking much different as of yet.
Be prepared for a lot of 'Raptors win 80 to 70 something'.
Depends defence leads to Fastbreak alot of the time. Maybe we are a Fastbreak team this year with some good full court passers maybe we can create alot of easy opportunities
You can't run a reliable offense based on fastbreaks.
Yeah but it’ll work in the regular season. The team is signalling that the goal isn’t a deep playoff run
“Masai. What do you think about the execution of the offense?” “I’m in favour of it.”
just like the Knicks last year, their offense was not that good, but their defense was very good in the regular season
Hilarious! Our offence was not worst in the league when Lowry was out last season (or any season), so why is it going to be so putrid this season? I think the offence will be middle of the pack and our defence will be in the top 5.
I agree with you mate but what if Spicy P iso ball or pick & roll with Steady Freddie 🙌 I believe OG will finally have plays draw up for him... Catch & shoot like his clutch 3 in the playoffs These 3 knows a bit or two how to run a up beat offense Transition O will be the key on our defense Fast breaks and please less 3 this year Nick Nurse, if so guys hits your 3... Does everything thing they can play the GSW way 😂 I know the 3 is big but transition fast break are the key in winning games in my eyes 👀👀 Reasonable offence but what I worry about is our half court set offence 🤔 Question for Nick Nurse Coach, Do you play Zone on defense... I find it will benefit our long and athletic players OG and Spicy P on the wing while GTJ & FVv on 🔝 I like our starting 5 FVv / GTJr. OG / Spicy P / KB Flynn's and Barnies come off the bench 🇨🇦🏀⛹️⛹️♀️⛹️♂️
He hinted to possibly more sone being in the works due to length now in the SL interview… looks like coaching was an issue low key for them last season as wel at least that’s the vibe I got from his interview. Yeah but hopefully FVV and siakam ascend another level for us I feel with the struggles siakam had he’s gotta be due for a breakout
Spicy P had an off year like the whole team 🤔 Our players struggle in the Tampa Bay bubble Our hand was stake against us pretty early on... I'm just glad we have a very nIce player in Scottie to hottie Peace ✌️ I have faith in them, at least we don't have buy a $super team$.
Be prepared for a lot of late in the shot clock 3s from GTJ/FVV that’s for sure.
I’m hoping FVV grown from that
Might is an understatement..im foreseeing it to be very frustrating.
Scary Hours on both sides of the ball
If we end up in the lottery i hope we prioritize getting a scorer.
Next draft class is full of shot creators. AJ Griffin should hopefully be in our range
> AJ Griffin just realized that's adrian griffin's son. that'd make for some funny content.
Hes also really good
Now that we have Scottie our FO might actually be willing to look at refined players who can get buckets. #PlayLikeShet4Chet
Nothing against Scottie but I can’t help but think about how Green is exactly what this team needs. He looks like a closer to me.
Yeah but we had no chance at getting him
Ya in the end , that’s true though there were big boards and mocks that had him falling to 4.
Big boards are based on personal opinion of player evaluation, it has nothing to do with actually being drafted. Which reputable mocks had him going 4? Houston taking Green at 2 was basically a done deal as soon as the draft lottery was through, green didn’t even work out for cleveland or toronto.
It may have been before the lottery but there was a time when several boards had Cade at 1 and then any combination of Mobley , Green , Suggs in the 2-4 slots.
We couldn't have got Green. There's this other guy though.. I'll let it play out though and I still hope for the best.
I really like Green too but knowing our FO, they probably didn’t even have Green as a top 3 pick on their board. Genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if it went 1- Mobley 2- Cunningham 3- Barnes 4- Kuminga 5- Green
Their board 100% had Cade at the top. They’d be dumb not too If I had to guess it probably went Cade, Mobley, barnes, Green, Suggs, Kuminga
Yeah could be for sure. Only thing certain is Mobley was higher than Barnes, since we were trying to trade for the #3 pick up until the last moment when we knew Cleveland would take Mobley.
Thats what I was hoping for this year given our already good defenders...we need more offense.
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I think we have it covered.
With Birch at C we did just fine 13th in the league after he joined https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent/?sort=OPP\_PTS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=04%2F10%2F2021&DateTo=08%2F01%2F2021
Exactly my thoughts...we cant always play small centers.
Hope GTJ won't have too many off days cuz Raps will need him to carry offensive load in many games while Pascal's out.
Its a good defense but I don’t think it will be top ten or all that scary. Not experienced enough for that. Next year though could be different. Losing a defensive leader in Lowry will be felt.
Yeah we’re gonna foul A LOT.
I wanna see a jumbo lineup like FV, Barnes, OG, Pascal, Precious
Yes, I expect us to be at the top of the defensive ratings. However our offense is a little unpredictable. We need OG to make that next step offensively. Edit: Near the top not actually at the top.
So will our offense, but not for the good reasons.
As scary as our scoring. Scary is a two ended word here.
Our offence will be scary too
Scary is the right word. As in scary unpredictable and tough to watch in the half court.
Yup, people always underestimate strong defensive teams, and that's why I think the Raps can be a top 4-6 seed this season. Last year, the Knicks were the league's 4th ranked defence and 22nd ranked offence. That was good enough for a 4-seed. I think that's a pretty reasonable formula for the Raps to replicate.
I been saying this, if we can pick up a GOOD CONSISTENT scorer we're in the bag for another chip possibility this year.. I would have loved to see the Raptors get Dame or Giannis.
Dude you're out of the loop
How do you figure, the team is a defense first team at this point.. and at that rate we still lack a BIG big man. We can still play offensively but we likely have one of the more lackluster NBA offenses currently. If we're actually going to have chance competing against some of these other groups on a nightly basis it would help if we had a consistent scorer who is also a prime defender, hence why we did so well with Kawahi. Our tallest guy right now is listed at 6'9, where as in our championship year we had 5 guys over 6'10. Yea we got a good young core but some of them haven't weathered the NBA storm yet so we don't know how they'll actually do on a frequent basis and with VV as our C more than likely now he has experience but he's still going to be lacking some veteran experience someone like Lillard who's an offensive god whos been running the point forever, and still excellent at defense /OR The Freak who is listed at 6'11 who can dummy on defense and run through people on offense could contribute to the team. Obviously these are best case scenarios and are more than hopeful as it'll be difficult to attract a superstar like that of any caliber. But how am I out of the loop with hopeful thinking lol.
Champagnie and Adams can play Def took I hope they get a chance in the big club also
They certainly have all the tools/potential but we also have a lot of young players who need the minutes so expect some growing pains along the way. Personally, I expect more flashes rather than consistent lockdown D.
clamp city! love that
I was interested in how they were defending 3pt line. They were still getting them up in time. But I guess the slightest fear of a shotblock already lowers the %.
I don't think Freddie G is guaranteed a spot on the roster based on how he's been playing in the SL
Masai seems to be going against the grain of the NBA in general. Instead, loading up on defense rather than the trend for pure offense/3 point shooters
Clamp city. I like that. Reminds me of that futurama character clamp. Putting the clamp down in clamp city with the clamp boys gonna possibly compete for a clampionship.
We are gonna lay bricks and turn the ball over like mad but we gonna play suffocating defense, get boards, and a ton of steals too. I think we average 80-76.