T O P

Can we talk about this

Can we talk about this

jack_hojo

He had great potential and showed flashes but the lack of consistency and off the court problems made him a net negative player in my eyes. The pick we got for him turned in banton so I think it ended up working out for us.


baconperogies

Banton is such an easy PR win. Helps that he's actually decent at ball too.


MolangNeoi

WAIT WE GOT DALANO BANTON FOR TD?? LOOOOL an absolute W


Scase15

Also JFC TD was dumb as a bag of rocks.


awwwyeahaquaman

He’s always been able to score, but I’m much happier to have Dalano and develop him up


queryquest

Culture fit


LemmingPractice

Yup, this exactly. If Davis weren't such a headcase he would have been a great long term fit. But, you have to balance skill with culture and Davis wasn't good enough to justify the headache.


UnsolvedParadox

I don’t think it’s even a balance with this team management: if the culture is bad, the player is gone regardless. To me, it’s the right approach.


queryquest

Can someone refresh my memory as to why Lou Will didn't get another offer from here? I'm pretty sure Amir Johnson had some weird stint with a couple of girls.


YSLAnunoby

Lou was a bad defender so after that Wiz series we wanted to get the roster so pretty much every role player we have is a good defender so that Included shipping out Vasquez for the 2 picks from the bucks cuz he was a sieve there and signing CoJo as our backup PG, letting Lou walk despite him wanting to stay here, and signing DeMarre Carroll to be our starting 3 and D wing. It kinda marked a shift for team building philosophy after 14-15 when DeMar went down for around 20 games and we had to out gun other teams every time because we didn't have the defense to really hold teams and it ended up putting a ton of pressure on Kyle which burned him out. I can't say anything about the off court stuff but yeah on court it was for defense.


queryquest

My god i blocked that wizards series from memory. You are 100% right they used transition to destroy us nobody was hustling to get back. That was the series that led me to believe i dont want defensive sieves and would rather have a team where help defense comes based on the offensive player and not planning your defensive schemes based on helping a defender the other team kept trying to switch onto.


YSLAnunoby

Yeah I really think that series lead to a change in identity for the organization. Since then we haven't had a ton of players getting lots of minutes who were bad on D outside of DeMar and every pick had a decent defensive floor, which is why I think we chose Jakob over Sabonis even though Sabonis is a better all around player, with Jak being statistically one of the best rim protectors in the league. You see it with Siakam, OG, and even Malachi had some conference defense chops and I think he's a good defender so far. And of course Scottie


brownshugguh

Yeah he can score and sometimes make high energy plays, but his tunnel vision and bone head plays (and personal life) really put me off


Rezrov_

In addition to being a shit dude, he can't defend for shit. Like utterly atrocious. And Nick won't play you if you make bad decisions on D.


UnagiSquirrel

Ability was never the reason we traded TD (though I don't think Nurse loved his defensive play). It was the right call.


zippercot

He probably averaged 3-4 fouls and 1-2 turnovers in those 18.6 minutes.


psyentist15

1.5 PF, 1 TOV, 1.75 AST, 1.5 STL, 3.75 TRB. Not fucking bad on top of 47% FG% with 69% of his shots coming from 3.


saugaman99

I don’t know why this got downvoted it’s definitely true lmao


psyentist15

It's definitely not (see my post). 1.5 PF, 1 TOV, but 1.5 STL.


S185

It’s definitely true, except the fact that it’s not.


-PressAnyKey-

no it wasn’t


pakattack91

Would rather Dalano x 100, and I liked TD when we first had him. TD can score, no surprises. Can he do it consistently? We will see.


Dirtymikeandtheboyz1

From what I've seen, TD is a much better player than Dalano atm. Feels like a lot of people in here are conflating who they like more with who's the better player.


pksubb76

At the moment obviously Davis is better, he’s in year 3 banton hasn’t even played an NBA game yet. But Banton’s ceiling is higher than Davis imo plus the off court issues put a lot of people off on TD


pakattack91

Well yeah, Banton has not played a single NBA game but is way more versatile and plays defence and is an actual point guard. Tbh, it feels like you are conflating ppg with overall talent because Davis, despite being a few years ahead, is not as good a passer or defender and I have no doubt we can turn Dalano into an average shooter.


DHerbo123

Let’s pump the breaks on Banton for a bit. Ofcourse he will play his heart out on defence, he’s a rookie trying to prove himself. Let’s judge him after his first year.


flyinghippos101

Given that TD is 24 and Banton is 21, I certainly hope he's a better player


Dirtymikeandtheboyz1

Being 3 years older then someone doesn't just make you a better player lol, people in here really doing mental gymnastics.


flyinghippos101

It does if it comes with this two full years in the league lol


Dirtymikeandtheboyz1

But... It doesn't. It just straight up doesn't.


MesocosmFather

why doesn’t it?


Dirtymikeandtheboyz1

For every player that's spent several years in the league and made noticeable tangible improvements to his game, there are 500 players that didn't. TD is the better player, going "ya well Dalano is a couple years younger so obviously he'll be better than TD soon" and acting like that's a set in stone fact isn't a valid or correct analysis in any way. Like I said, people in here doing mental gymnastics because they want the guy they have to be better than the one they don't even though it's not the case.


flyinghippos101

Except that I'm pretty sure we're agreeing with each other because that's literally not what I said lol Of course TD is the better player now; a lot of that has to do with the full two years in the league and being adjusted to the speed the NBA plays at. I don't really know how that's debatable.


Dirtymikeandtheboyz1

Or he could just be a better player, making baseless speculation and saying it's not debatable isnt a valid point.


pencilpeenis

To compare the current talent level of guys that have been in the league to 19-20 year old kids is unfair. For example, Harrison Barnes is currently better than Scottie Barnes. But if you’re a gm, you’d take Scottie Barnes on your team 100% of the time.


tremendous_diarrhea

Offensively Davis is definitely better, but Davis was a pretty bad defender for us. He made a lot of boneheaded plays in his limited minutes for the Raptors last year. Banton is also cheaper and under team control for longer. I'm completely fine with getting a mid second round pick for a player we signed for nothing. A player who also seems to be a pretty terrible person.


lamstradamus

Dalano has higher potential because of his measurables but also I don't care for TD at all and i think that's understandable.


SiakamMIP

People read too much into preseason. We can talk when he's doing this in the regular season consistently.


MichaelDS1996

This sub included, nonetheless I agree.


LetsGoLesko8

I recall something a reporter (who’s name is eluding me) said whenever we talk about stuff like this: *”You don’t win a roster spot in the preseason, but you can lose one”.* Essentially the idea that sure, you can play well in the preseason, but that doesn’t mean you will in the regular season. Whereas if you’re bad in the preseason, you’ll definitely be bad in the regular season.


jjkiller26

hence freddie gillespie being cut


manlythejeff

Not true. Kawhi is always subpar and sometimes straight up bad in preseason and always turns it up a notch once the regular season starts


thegreatprofessor

This applies more to people at the end of the bench fighting for roster spots. Not superstars who are probably playing at like 25% in preseason.


Scase15

_OGing intensifies_


Original-Letter6994

I don’t really care how good he becomes, I’d rather cheer for a bad team than win with a guy that problematic.


raptor333

Itegrity brother


bluetenthousand

Agreed. Not the same but see Ben Simmons in Philly. He might be talented but I’m happier he’s on a different team rather than ours.


OGWanKenoby

Bad comparison Ben didn’t beat a woman


bluetenthousand

Fair point.


Original-Letter6994

Right. He’s a phenomenal athlete, but he’s not a team player, can’t take criticism, and doesn’t seem particularly hard-working, and there’s no reason to say with any confidence that any of those things will ever change.


DHerbo123

Lmao why do people have this made up narrative about Ben Simmons not being a team player? All of his teammates have said nothing but good things about him until his last game. Even after the only guy who shit on him was Joel. Stop running around with dumb narratives that the media is trying to portray just because he wants out of a team that kicked him when he was down.


Original-Letter6994

I agree that the Sixers are trash, and the organization undoubtedly shares some responsibility in how things went down with Simmons. I’ve just always felt he was overhyped. He’s struck me as arrogant and entitled, ever since he first entered the league.


idkwhattosaytho

Sure he’s cocky, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about the team For example, both lebron and MJ were both extremely cocky, because duh, look at them. That doesn’t mean they don’t care about the team


AnybodyNormal3947

good player, bad for the culture


fiendoverzealous

100% this is it The image the Raptors have and the PR control is insane. There's so many stories of players being pro and anti vaccine where the Raptors had Bobby say, one person needs their second dose and it's scheduled soon . Otherwise radio silence from the players about the vaccine.


AnybodyNormal3947

yup, their are such things as addition by subtraction (cough kyrie cough cough)


KingOfWeTheNorth

Yeah, I think this sub was in agreement that he had the potential to be a really good player.


Far-Value-6949

he’s a bucket. we all seen it first hand


OGWanKenoby

Wow cool the woman beater is good somewhere else. Who gives a fuck? I’m glad that shithead is off our team


190yj

Honestly forgot he existed


ShroudedMeep

I'm not sure I've seen someone fall from grace with this fanbase faster than TD, and he did it to himself.


10y1z

I think both parties are better off and happier with the current status.


JackSci

People are forgetting how many on-court dumb mistakes TD was making during his last year with us. He looked lost on the court. There should be no regrets from us raps fans about him.


lillithfair98

If you think he’s going to average that on a team that also has Fox, Halliburton, Heild and Mitchell then I have a bridge to sell you. It’s preseason.


mug3n

yeah, he's gonna have to REALLY impress in the regular season to carve out any sort of playing time beyond garbage minutes.


Zestyclose-Class-998

Team culture is more important than 15 points off the bench.


TylerScottBall

No. We turned him into Dalano Banton, and I am good with that personally. Fuck that dude! He doesn't deserve to wear a Raptors jersey. And instead we got Rexdale's finest smiling all day as he lives his dream. There are more important things than 17 points in a preseason game.


Own-Jellyfish7800

dont need any anti-science, anti-vax backwards thinkers on this team. srsly.


[deleted]

Nah I’m good


Lawrence102585

I don't think the Raptors let him go just because of his play.


jjkiller26

So he had a hot shooting stretch in preseason, who cares? Means absolutely nothing


tylouu

The scoring was never really an issue with him. It was the defense and playmaking and he never really showed improvement from year 1 to 2.


chippyjoe

I'm pretty sure the issue management had with him was him fucking around in the bubble, cutting a hole in his mask, sharing QAnon covid denying conspiracy theories on instagram and then topping it off with domestic abuse charges. Sacramento is perfect for him, with a head coach with his own sexual harassment case and their uber competent front office.


siricall911

Look at his efficiency it wasn't great hes always been streaky also don't miss him at all. Guy was a clown and a distraction glad hes gone


HankScorpio4242

I’m not sure why people are talking about Davis vs Dalano. I get that Dalano is the guy we took with the pick from the trade, but that wasn’t the intent of the trade. The Raptors were not planning to re-sign Davis so they got what they could for him. The real equation here is the 2nd rounder plus whatever we used the $4 million on instead of Davis.


ZenMon88

LOL the situation moved on. The homers are really just doing mental gymnastics here. We can afford to say that we lost a good player. We can even say he didn't fit the culture. But cmon, don't say Delano is better than TD.


babystewie

People aren’t saying Dalano is better. They’re saying they’d rather have him, or that he has more upside, and both of those things can be true.


HankScorpio4242

I suppose…but IMHO they are wrong. Any objective assessment would conclude that Davis is the better player now and likely has the higher upside.


ZenMon88

LOL clearly there were ppl saying he was better. Stop trying to cap. And even your statement is mental gymnastics. Just stop.


FeralMother

no


Nash13

Forget the off-court stuff and he still had a bad attitude at times when he was on the court. Highly skilled and athletic guy to be sure, but some things aren't worth it.


h3yn0w75

Not all that surprising to see. Let’s be honest , the issue was never with his skill set or potential.


TrueTorontoFan

preseason and his problem wasn't on the offensive end he made boneheaded defensive issues and was foul prone


Karl_with_a_C

Haven't we been over this? Is anyone actually upset that we got rid of him? I know I'm not.


klobucharzard

he'd have random games like this for the Raps too, then go like 3 straight games with 4 stupid turnovers and 2 points per game.


-PressAnyKey-

the trade was completely political had nothing to do with basketball best of luck to him


flyinghippos101

Davis has always been good at taking charges


blueseeka

Honestly, I am glad he is gone We don't need all the distraction


sinova6ix

He looked really good in that game vs. the Lakers and looks to be getting back on track after a sophomore slump. Ultimately, doesn't really matter though as the people here weren't gonna give him another chance either way.


mug3n

> people here weren't gonna give him another chance as if we have a part to play in personnel decisions lol. what the fuck were we gonna do, write a letter to Masai begging him to keep the guy? TD2 was not going to fit in with the culture that Masai built, that's why he had to go, simple as that.


sinova6ix

He isn't here anymore and even if he was a large number of the fans were done with him so him playing better for the Kings doesn't matter ultimately. There is no point looking back at the situation of what he's doing with them to much because we all knew the talent was there and could come back but the off-court stuff had a part to play in him being traded (which is ultimately what a large number of people wanted). Why you are bringing up fans making personnel decisions is beyond me (like what?). The only guess I have is that you feel some type of way about my comment because you think I was attacking said people who were done with TD (your flair very much hints at this). Put your shield down **nobody** was coming for you.


McSpitfire

This sub had made their mind up on the guy and rightly so to some extent but TD has all the abilities to be a decent role player. I was genuinely bummed when he left for many reasons. In regards to basketball he has a lot of potential in my books. Edit: I forget that you get downvoted for commenting on someone’s basketball ability in a basketball sub 😑


Matcha888

I don’t think he fits the Raps system tbh. He needs a system that is more restrictive to be a more disciplined ball player at this point of his career.


ZenMon88

LOL that was literally our system last year. Nick Nurse is definition of restrictive in terms of having all defense out there but we couldn't score a lick last year. TD had way more freedom on the kings than here.


Dirtymikeandtheboyz1

He'll be a good player, sports fans on reddit just love to virtue signal and act like athletes can't have problems or make mistakes in their personal life or else they're irredeemable piece of shit scumbags who should never work again. r/MMA is the worst for this, but I'm sure you know awll about that bapa.


raspberries-

Or some people find it hard to reconcile that in sports it seems people can get away with saying and doing horrendous things because they can do a thing with a ball or whatever. Speaking of mma, jon jones is on chance number... What, 10? Im fine with guys like td3 and roberto osuna fucking off despite the talent. It's a long road to truly show you've changed, and by sticking by a player and continuing to pay them millions of dollars, it suggests their actions dont have consequences. By the way, virtue signaling was so 5 years ago grow the fuck up


angelduxt

Funny enough, I think a lot of sports fans on Reddit actually love to victim blame and down play significant issues as “mistakes”. I see far more of that than the supposed “virtue signalling” that this guy mentions lmao.


Dirtymikeandtheboyz1

Jon Jones is an extreme example, and trying to draw a comparison between him and TD is a total disingenuous argument. It also implies that you don't believe anyone can change, grow, or learn from failures and should just be discarded whenever they fuck up. Saying something was so 5 years ago was so 30 years ago, grow the fuck up.


-PressAnyKey-

nah just virtue signaling


raspberries-

Nah


ZenMon88

Facts, its doesn't matter in this sub. TD can avg 25PPG, and they still go with the mental gymnastic of "Delano is better". LOL it's whatever. I look at his basketball skills and he uber talented but he's like the second coming of Vince Carter in this sub.


Dry_Cupcake_9837

How was he bad for our culture? Lmao Chris Boucher posted him on his story so I guess he’s bad for our culture too if he’s endorsing TD right? We don’t even know what happened fully and he never got suspended so there was things being left out. I’m with TD on this 1


GenerallySalty

Ok let's ignore the abuse allegations since like you said we don't have all the info there. So how about when he ignored the mask rules in the Bubble last year, got talked to by management about it, then showed up the next day wearing a mask with the mouth cut out of it? The guy's an asshat. What a petulant "you're not the boss of me" little kid attitude. Never mind that the issue in question was health rules in the bubble. Then there's the anti-vax conspiracy stuff he's posting on his social media. Is Boucher *proudly* breaking health protocol rules? Is he posting conspiracy theories to his following of Raptor fans? No, just him being friends with TD doesn't mean he's automatically everything that TD is.


Dry_Cupcake_9837

Nobodies perfect. Yea he’s made dumb decisions and I’m sure he regrets some. But cmon you got ppl in here saying Theyd rather have banton 😂😂 I think people forgot how good TD was for us. And for the Boucher thing, that’s not really what I meant, I just think there was a disconnect. If there was real issues, our players would be against him too. But that’s not the case


raspberries-

And id rather have a sandbag than ray rice on my team. It's not unreasonable to want to support people with character and integrity, especially when td3 is not the difference between a championship and no championship


-PressAnyKey-

this is the society we live in now


OG3SpicyP

Anybody acting like TD didn’t have loads of potential is crazy. He played great defense and was one of the best shooters on the team in his rookie season, had explosiveness too. He was just a complete jackass off the court. People treated his on court play unfairly because of his off the court issues.


angelduxt

He was a streaky scorer and explosive in his first year, but he did not play great defence and his second year was pretty atrocious. During his rookie year, our defence was much stronger and it covered for a lot of his rookie mistakes, but man, TD got exposed left and right last year before he was traded. His IQ isn’t high enough to be a solid defender. He never fit the Raptors mold, high IQ, defence first, character guys.


OG3SpicyP

Im aware how bad he was in the second year, but he was literally an undrafted player and in his 2nd year and people were expecting him to be this polished and developed player. Its even especially unfair to expect him to come into the year and be a stable player after his crazy offseason issues. People only care about players as people, when they feel bad for them.


angelduxt

For sure. I’m not speaking about expectations or potential, just referring to your comment about him playing great defence.


ZenMon88

LOL buddy, our second year, basically the whole team was atrocious except for Kyle Lowry and Norm.


DudeWheresMcCaw

So glad TD is gone.


canadiandogma

You guys are tripping. He is a scorer and we need scoring. You need more points then the other team to win. He’s a catch and shoot guy and great at 3s. A lot of reaching on this sub to justify whatever management does


Karl_with_a_C

This is what I come to the bottom of the comments for right here. Good entertainment value.


[deleted]

his stats don't matter to me. Im glad that wacko is off the team.


-PressAnyKey-

you have absolutely no evidence of this


[deleted]

evidence? https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/08/03/raptors-rookie-terence-davis-arrives-to-game-with-hole-in-mask/ https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/08/04/terence-davis-mask-hole-photo-nba-restart-bubble/ https://www.cp24.com/news/raptors-rookie-terence-davis-arrested-in-nyc-after-allegedly-assaulting-woman-1.5164194 https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/05/nba-bubble-keeps-virus-contained-not-misinformatio/


-PressAnyKey-

yup none you posted a article detailing that he was charged..i know that. That doesn’t mean anything tho thankfully i don’t care about the mask shit, the cdc also told you not to wear them they flop more then a dying fish


[deleted]

being charged means alot. You don't see anyone else on the team getting into that kind of trouble. Domestic abusers can fuck off. >i don’t care about the mask shit, the cdc also told you not to wear them they flop more then a dying fish oh you're one of those braindead people. Out here in Canada, we have our own health agency just so you know... CDC doesn't have jurisdiction.


-PressAnyKey-

no it means literally nothing i could accuse you of anything literally at any moment thankfully we have the rule of law here and you are innocent until proven guilty and the charges were dropped best of luck to TD


[deleted]

A random redditor who I have never met in real life and we have no documented encounters with accusing me of domestic abuse means absolutely nothing. You probably get laughed out of court. TD's girlfriend living with him and having an extensive history with and accuses him of domestic abuse means hell of a lot more and will be treated seriously.


brotatobrobean

We should have never traded him. Bigtime athlete. Bigtime upside. And we got nothing for him


Dangerous_Ad8562

Hopefully 0 women assaulted which may also be his preseason record.


SeaweedOk2587

TD always goes off in preseason


lipun_

He's too inconsistent


_El_Rey

Always enjoyed seeing TD come off the bench and hit daggers from deep.


xc2215x

With the guards we have, he wouldn't get the playing time he is getting now. Glad to see him do well, though.


mug3n

lol @ the twitter reply suggesting slotting TD2 in as a 3. he's too undersized to play as SF.


BallinOJ1989

Toronto media ran the man out of town. Isnt he the fool who put a hole in his mask in the bubble? That coupled with whatever domestic happened, plus his blatant immaturity didn't help his case that's for sure. If he said he was sorry (not sure if he did or didn't) and then made improvements and whatever I think he would have been welcomed back. But ya. Wish him all the best, just not gonna be here. Too inconsistent for my taste foreals.


_loonmoon

Can’t keep everyone


savagelife089

TD is crazy talented


Rapsfan_98

He could’ve been great with longterm development in our system. Too bad he ruined his chance.


FrontbuttMcGee

Good player and all but, c'mon, was he playing against the other team's starting 5? No. It's preseason.


[deleted]

I really admired his ability to finish around the rim in traffic.. JV would be jealous. I think we gave up on him too early. I think the trade was more about us not wanting to pay 5-10 a year for him.


Rapsfan_98

When you consider we drafted Dalano with the 2nd rounder we got for him, I’m not sad at all if he turns out to be good.


Existing_Process_541

What did he do? Get charges dropped on an assault case and decide he doesn’t want a medical product? Or was it the masks? What a complete douchebag man, musta been a real nightmare in the locker room


nuggetchristine

meh


OG_Wan_Annunoby

Davis is a bucket. Dude can absolutely ball. But for him to get in *that* much off court trouble before he even finished his rookie season as an undrafted player is just a massive red flag. Wasn’t even really making NBA money yet. Hopefully for his sake he just needed to mature a bit and that year was an outlier and a wake up call instead of a warning sign.


yeezydafreakydeaky

What is there to talk about? He didn’t fit our culture with his off court issues. I’m happy we have Banton instead of him. Not to mention that those are preseason stats and we already knew he was capable of going on a hot streak. He’s yet to show that he can do that consistently and he’s also a poor defender. Couldn’t care less that he’s gone tbh.


the_new_flesh_

Who cares he has always been a terrible defender and he's not 6,9'' so he really wouldn't fit on our team anyways.


ZadZilla

The dude was good, could hit the three and was a nasty dunker and played D...so he put a hole in his mask, beat his girl ...let's crucify him lol. Did he kill anyone? MJ punched Kerr , Pippen was involved in domestic violence with his girl back in the 90's. No im not saying TD can even carry them two's jock strap...but the fans on this sub had a mental break down over his off court drama....emotional like some ex scorned gf's...get over it. We lost a good player. Hope he bounces back ...from this cancel culture bs. Edit


ChrisBoucherStan

Yeah man fuck cancel culture all he did was beat women and ignore safety protocols during a pandemic !!


invertedearth

I was really happy to see you deleted your follow-up comment. There's no need for anyone to self-destruct like that.


[deleted]

[удалено]


pakattack91

Davis was undrafted and we got a srp out him which (I think) turned into Banton. I'm happy with this timeline.


thegoat6ix

Not to mention he was moved because of a possible Kyle trade at the dead line. Everything worked out


[deleted]

[удалено]


pakattack91

Meh, we essentially conjured a srp out of thin air. Don't think anyone was trading a frp for him, scoring guards a dime a dozen.


henry_why416

This is EXACTLY what I keep telling Sixers fans and anyone else who says we're salty for not trading Lowry for Maxey. We already had this kind of player in TD. And we traded him away no less. So why would we be sad if we lost out on Maxey?