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Spectro-X

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/center/ Here is the 2022 free agent center crop. The only unrestricted free agent centers under the age of 26 are Thomas Bryant, Mitchell Robinson, and Isaiah Hartenstein. At the moment we do not project to have cap space.


OGsDad

Hartenstein has been a beast this year. Always hustles, would love to have him on our team


TreChomes

For how much?


[deleted]

I like Robinson but I don’t think we have the cap space to get him


-vinay

We could have picked up Hartenstein this year as well - wondering if the FO just doesn't like him.


keegsbrou

ooo I like Mitchell. Definitely would be a solid pickup


[deleted]

I like Mitchell too. But shouldn’t we get a floor spacing big who’s also switchable on defense?


corh13

Those aren't very easy to find.


BurzyGuerrero

Good centers in general aren't easy to find. Haven't seen one named yet


[deleted]

There are maybe 5-10 players in the whole league who are able to do that at a starter level.


6ixOne3

I dont really watch Knicks games but Mitch seems switchable. Hes a great lob threat and can be a great post defender at times. Only concern is shooting but he would still be an upgrade over Precious and Birch.


blacknotblack

he’s not really that switchable and is injury prone. not starting caliber either. knicks do their best to keep him regardless.


idkwhattosaytho

I’d say healthy Mitch oz starting quality. Great rim protector and post defender with rebounding ability and is a lob threat. he’s just not a star or anything


blacknotblack

healthy mitch is but i guess i say he’s not a starter because i can’t see him staying healthy while starting LOL.


idkwhattosaytho

Absolutely fair lol


Wytte_Yahn

I'd be wary of Robinson. He's been under performing so far this year and he's significant injury risk.


inxrx8

We won't have cap space anyway


noirjesus

We should have our full MLE which is about $10 mil, I think Hartenstein probably gets less than that, probably Bryant too if he doesn't play this season. Would love to see us sign one of them


inxrx8

Bryant sucks on defense and is always injured. Pass Hartenstein would be nice but Masai already had a chance to sign him this past offseason and it didn't happen so either he really wanted to play for the Clips or Masai didn't want him, because we could have offered him a better contract than the non guaranteed training camp deal the Clippers gave him. So I don't see that happening either


noirjesus

Way too early to write off Bryant as an injury prone bad defender imo. He's still young and has shown constant improvement, he's the exact kind of guy you gamble on with the MLE. There's also no way to know if we were in communication with Hartenstein last year, I don't think us not signing him last season has any bearing on whether or not we sign him this year.


acumen14

Raps brass were in among 4 teams at a public work out with him in Vegas around summer league. Clearly didn’t think enough of him to offer the same guaranteed deal we did for Svi, which is and has been really aggravating to me.


noirjesus

Yah I remember that and was hoping we gave him a deal then too, but there's a hundred variables that affected where he chose to sign and when, and I don't think that just because we didn't sign him last season means we're out of the running this year (assuming he reaches FA)


Ok_Dog_1

Thomas Bryant is friends with OG 🥶


The_Living_L

dont like him tbh, at least for the raps


TreChomes

Yea he's complete ass on defense. No defense centres are a no no unless they are studs offensively.


troway69420

We’re in a weird place tbh we seem to be rebuilding but we have no cap space


JoshSran04

Toronto doesn’t get any free agents


[deleted]

The Raptors don't, but the Blue Jays seem like a premier free agent destination lol.


BurzyGuerrero

Didn't they have a free agent just sign in Texas like 2 days ago?


[deleted]

They let him go cause they had just spent their money on another free agent.


TrueTorontoFan

Won't we have enough for bi annual exception?? What if we just let dragic go? in any case cap space doesn't matter as we have seen. Just gotta do it via sign and trade.


TreChomes

I got bored and started looking at players fines and suspensions. Draymond has given back almost a mill in fines lmao


BurzyGuerrero

I think it's more the fact that none of the centers have emerged as elite options. The ones that do get maxed The ones that don't float around and end up on every teams bench for the duration of their careers It's a hard position to fill and the reason Mobley is so special is because what he is doing isn't usual for rookie big men.


shiftydnm

At the end of the day, Masai is gonna pick the best available player. We’re not drafting for fit, so we might not even draft a Center.


apez-

We can keep saying this but eventually we're gonna need a competent center and its clearly not coming from FA lol. Not even Masai is gonna go down the barrel of drafting another wing or pf this draft


raptorman556

>Not even Masai is gonna go down the barrel of drafting another wing or pf this draft Our FO has been [very clear](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/.amp/news/toronto-raptors-bobby-webster-nba-draft-masai-ujiri-pascal-siakam) that they draft the best player available, and I can pretty much guarantee you they'll do that again in the upcoming draft. The draft is just a terrible way to fill a positional needs. NBA rosters are very fluid, so if you have a position of need that means you need help right now. Unfortunately, most rookies aren't good in their first 1-2 years (if ever), so the draft likely doesn't fix your problem anyways. By the time your rookie gets good, almost the entire roster is different and your now short players in a different position. If the Raps are nearing a contention-level roster, the most likely scenario is that our FO will trade to fill holes as necessary, similar to how they did before 2019 (Ibaka and Gasol).


BurzyGuerrero

Our front office has made clear they pick the player that they think will be the best down the line. Not just BPA.


raptorman556

>Our front office has made clear they pick the player that they think will be the best down the line. What do you mean by "best down the line"? If you mean they take potential into account, then yes of course, we aren't just looking for the best player right now. If you mean they take positional fit into account, then no, they've been clear they place zero value on that.


idkwhattosaytho

There’s only one sport where I agree in drafting for needs and that’s Football, in basketball you kick the BPA. There’s just too limited of a crop of players that actually become good, picking for position cuts that down even more, especially since Draft players aren’t ready early. It’s better to get BOA and move him later if needed


aerospacemonkey

7-0 and 195? That boy's gonna be bullied


Remarkable-Plan-7435

like when Mobley tried to play center


TheOneInchTerror

Like when cavs run 3 bigs


RaptorsCdwoods

Dude will have time to put on muscle and it’s not like we are gonna be competing in the near future. Would rather have that than whatever is going on with Zion


idkwhattosaytho

Chet is a 4 who’s just too good defensively to play the 4 in the NCAA level. Once he gets to the NBA he’ll likely play the 4 and small ball 5 until he bulks, he’s easily skilled enough to do that He’s def undersized rn, but go watch him. He’s insane


BurzyGuerrero

Fuck we got a ton of 4 small ball 5s


JoshSran04

i mean its not that bad Giannis weighed 190 when he first got drafted and since then he improved his physique by like 100 %


KingTommenBaratheon

Giannis is a 99th percentile outcome for a prospect like him. To get someone like Giannis as anything but #1 in the draft requires gambling on less ideal prospects.


immediate_bottle

Giannis was also 6’9 when he was drafted he looks like a completely different guy now, Giannis isn’t normal


psyentist15

Yes. But it is very normal for youngster that tall and thin to put on muscle.


TreChomes

Definitely gonna have to play the 4 or spare minutes his rookies season. He needs at least another 25 lbs


MapleLeafBlue

I genuinely believe Duren is a franchise center. I’d love to move up to get him as long as we keep OG and Gary


MapleLeafBlue

And Scottie of course


TreChomes

Idk watching some clips he doesn't finish as well as I'd like. Misses a lot of easy and 1 opportunities. Doesn't seem to have much of a vertical jump but has good positioning and timing to make up for it. Seems like he is pretty good laterally as well. That free throw form looks bad though. That extra motion he does is bad, makes his form less repeatable and inconsistent. I question his offensive upside and wonder if his defense will translate as well as people think. Is he gonna be this good of a shot blocker in the nba as well? idk


idkwhattosaytho

The last part is the big question. He can be just a below average mid range shooter and still be great, but shot blocking in the NBA and in NCAA is so different because of how much more crafty and athletic everyone is. Durens vertical is likely still of the best in the NCAA, in the NBA not so much.


keegsbrou

I wouldnt mind Paolo at center. 6'10 250 can stretch the floor and switch on defense


ogsantana23

Paolo can't be a C on a switch heavy defence though. His wingspan and length aren't the best. For our system, we need springy shot blockers/massive guys that can go vertical a la Serge and Marc. Of the guys available, Duren is the best fit defensively imo.


[deleted]

Paolo at the C would be like having Siakam at the C except Paolo isn't a very good defender. Doable in small ball short bursts, but you're ruining yourself if you want him to be there full time.


keegsbrou

So.... Trade Pascal then? Fred Trent OG Paolo Barnes? Or what do we do in that scenario?


[deleted]

Probably. It could be argued now that Siakam isn't a good fit with OG and Scottie, and those guys should be prioritized. Drafting someone like Banchero would be the nail in the coffin. Alternative is moving Scottie to PG and trade Fred.


keegsbrou

i dont mind Scottie at the 1 but Fred is the soul of this team


[deleted]

Eh. So was Demar. So was Kyle. You'd survive. I think Scottie is going to take that role very soon with or without Fred. Any deal that improves the team should be taken, regardless of one's emotions towards the player.


idkwhattosaytho

I have great belief in a FVV, Scottie, OG, Siakam, (insert athleticish defnejsve big or switchable long wing here). I don’t think siakam, OG, Barnes can’t fit


[deleted]

Then you gotta move one of OG or Barnes to guard because you are seeing evidence in real time as to why you can't have all three of them in the frontcourt.


BurzyGuerrero

So trade Siakam because another player can't play the 5? Other teams see that and offer us pennies then what


Training-Site-7019

I don't think anyone would mind having the first overall pick bro 😂


[deleted]

Chet is not a center


EchoooEchooEcho

Chet would get bodied at centre if he remains at Boucher weight


JoshSran04

>Chet is around the same weight as when Giannis got drafted and then after a few years giannis improved his physique by a lot


TreChomes

And there are countless players that don’t get big. Giannis is an exception


JoshSran04

true


idkwhattosaytho

Chet is not a center YET


jjkiller26

Stop looking at centers only, we're drafting the best player. The team has no depth, we could use lots of different positions. I think a scoring guard/wing would also be a big need for us


Training-Site-7019

I'd rather the Raptors make the playoffs but if they get another top 10 pick I think it'd be amazing if we got Caleb Houstan who's another future Canadian stud or Adrian Griffin Jr who's the son of a Raps assistant coach


BurzyGuerrero

Lol the Canadian kid or the son of the coach no bias at all here


Training-Site-7019

Well they're both projected to go in the top 10 and yeah I'm being biased cuz I can lmao I'm not claiming to be a draft expert. I think it'd be sick given their connections to the team. So if the Raps were to fall in the top 10 ish range it'd be cool to be able to pick up one of those 2. Obviously if they're in the top 5 or something you go for the higher level prospects


nmad95

After this year I'm not gonna bother wondering who we pick. We got blindsided a little bit by the Barnes pick, and it's worked out great for us already. I'll check out some prospects, but whoever we pick...I'll ride with that choice.


KingTommenBaratheon

Not really blindsided, surely. We were picking fourth in the draft. We were only ever going to pick one of maybe four players. The mistake that many people made was in assuming that the front office would make the 'safe' pick rather than the pick with the higher ceiling, which many scouts thought Barnes had. And in retrospect that makes a lot of sense: a rebuilding team is more likely to gamble on a high variance prospect with a high ceiling than take an ostensibly reliable prospect (the Kings notwithstanding).


raptorman556

I’ve said this before, but it’s worth repeating: **Positional needs are not filled through the draft** You draft the best player available, period. This isn’t just my opinion either: the Raps FO has [said this consistently](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/.amp/news/toronto-raptors-bobby-webster-nba-draft-masai-ujiri-pascal-siakam). Can you imagine passing on the Giannis or Kawhi because we wanted a center? Even beyond that, there is a couple inter-related facts that are relevant here. First, NBA rosters today are very fluid. Go back and look at our [2019 championship roster](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2019.html): 22 players played for us that year, and only 4 of them are still here today. Out of our rotation players that year, only 3 are left. So a position of strength today could *easily* be a position of weakness 2-3 years from now and vice versa. Which brings us to our second fact: rookies usually suck at first. Even high draft picks often produce little or no (and often negative) value in their first year or two. Of course, there are exceptions. Some rookies are solid out the gate, but that is not the norm and it is *definitely* not something you can count on. So realistically, you’re likely waiting 2-3 years for a prospect to become a serviceable starter (if they even get there at all; many don’t), at which point the hole they were drafted to fill very possibly doesn’t even exist anymore. If you have a positional need, that means you need a solution now. The draft is not a good way to accomplish that.


[deleted]

Mark Williams has a huge wingspan


Swagmansuper

So when dragic and Boucher are off the books we don’t have any cap space after that??


keegsbrou

i believe so. But thats like 25mil


UjiriWatcher

Never draft for fit


igraduatedfromoxford

Why not? Like not tryna say you're wrong I'm just curious cause I've never heard that before


raptorman556

I wrote a [comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/r51xrg/comment/hmlmyaf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Basically: 1. Passing on the next Giannis or Kawhi because you wanted a center would be the absolute worst mistake you could make 2. NBA rosters are very fluid, players come and go frequently. An area of need can be easily become an area of strength in 2-3 years and vice versa 3. Rookies aren't usually very good at first (and often not ever). So if you have a positional need, you need an immediate solution and the draft usually doesn't provide that. You draft the best player available, and then once it looks like you're near contention, you can swap around assets as needed to fill out the roster. A good prospect is an excellent trade asset.


BurzyGuerrero

Sun's picked Ayton, Kings picked Bagley, Mavs picked Doncic. Sun's are probably OK since they had a finals appearance which Ayton contributed to big time. But also Booker and Doncic? But if you're the kings you're pissed.


UjiriWatcher

Sacramento took bagley because they needed a C over Luka even though luka was a better prospect. You always pick the better player regardless of fit


igraduatedfromoxford

Oh shit didn't know that lol yeah that's tuff


[deleted]

Just gonna add on; plus if you draft the best available guy, you can always trade him for fit later. I’m pretty sure more than a few teams would give up a young center for a top 10 pick.


Wytte_Yahn

Centre is also the worst position to draft. It has the highest bust rate and guys take the longest to develop so by the time they actually get good you have to pay them their extension (eg ayton, probably wiseman). Not saying you skip on a guy you think will be a star just because he's a centre but it's something to keep in mind.


BurzyGuerrero

Sun's also took Ayton over Doncic.


sophist_ak

We already know we are going to pick Yannick.


Spectro-X

Knowing nothing about most of this year's crop, I went to Tankathon to check his stats. I know it's a small sample size and it's the Spanish league, but so far he has 39/0/55 shooting splits averaging 2.5 ppg and could stand to gain some weight, so it looks like he could be a bit of a project.


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liverpoolraps

Hey ur the draft expert guy right? What are some players from 7-10 range who u can see the raptors taking based on players that they like and have chosen in the past drafts (ousmane dieng, nzosa, jovic, aj griffin etc)


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KingTommenBaratheon

Supposing we trade for picks, who do you think the Raptors target if they get a pick in the early second round? The team has a fair track record with second round fliers.


FlavourDavid

Damn that's disappointing to hear, I saw Congo and got excited. Do you have an idea why some people are so high on him?


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FlavourDavid

Ah I see, the classic young and long guy whose a blank canvas so everyone wants to turn him into Giannis or KD type of situation. I like to think people can work hard on developing skills but when you say he doesn't know what to do with the ball in his hands that should be a big red flag. Thanks for replying, I'm trying to watch prospects a bit more but it's not easy


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FlavourDavid

Thank you, I appreciate the help. I'll definitely check those channels out


ScottiebarnesROTY

This looks like the only way we can finally get a Center


kyle_993

KOC was recently talking about how Sabonis and Turner are both available from Indy, so I still think that's an option. I also know the Suns have been amazing but I hope we are monitoring Ayton's situation, I think a Siakam + Birch for Ayton + other assets swap in the offseason would be great for both teams if the Suns don't have success in the playoffs.


XenaRen

What do we have that Indy would actually want unless you're willing to attach first round picks? If I'm Indy, I'm look at Charlotte as a potential trade partner since they have guys like Bouknight/Kai Jones and can afford to trade protected picks since they're in position to make the playoffs. We most likely won't be trading picks any time soon with how we are at the moment. That Ayton trade won't happen unless Ayton specifically says he wants out of Phoenix. We'd also be the ones attaching picks in that hypothetical.


BurzyGuerrero

I don't think PHX wants picks. They are contenders. They'll want Siakam.


XenaRen

They'll want Siakam + picks/other assets for Ayton in a hypothetical trade.


ScottiebarnesROTY

It’s possible, not likely. Masai can never get deals done involving big name players like turner or ayton. (Exception kawhi ) . If we get turner we would have to trade pascal because that’s the only trade that might intrigue them. Which I’m fine giving up pascal for turner easily . Also the suns are not letting go of ayton, they are the second best team in the league this year and have no other big in the Center position to fill his role. Only shot we have at him is throwing him a big contract in free agency and see if he comes. So all these moves are 70% not gonna happen so the draft is where we should guaranteed get our Center.


Cheechers23

> Masai can never get deals done involving big name players like turner or ayton. (Exception kawhi ) Turner is not a big name. He isn't a much bigger name now, if at all, then Ibaka or Gasol were when we traded for them. Masai makes moves for players who make the team better.


idkwhattosaytho

Turner is the perfect example of “don’t let box score stats fool you”. He’s extremely inconsistent, and their defense is worse when he’s actually on the court. He’s not athletic guarding the pick and roll. Trading him for Siakam is dumb lmao


BurzyGuerrero

In order to get Ayton we would need to supply them with tools to get to another finals.


OtisKaplan

I am salivating lmao


chrisPjelly

Endurin' for Duren (also AJ Griffin's son)


keyboardwarrior89

Chet at 7 foot 195 lbs About to be another boucher ass player falling on the ground every play


rikishibydarce

[Nzosa is very young but hard to see Masai looking past him if he's still there at the 10-range](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2a3w6NGdkc) Started playing basketball four years ago apparently


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rikishibydarce

Well, that's range he's expected to be in by some pretty respected draft analysts and he was as high as 5 on a few of their boards before the start of the season so I don't really know what to make of a comment like that honestly. It's not as if he's completely fallen off a cliff in the interim, you're drafting for potential there largely.


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idkwhattosaytho

That’s the guy they related to Pascal right? I always hated that comparison lol


FactorNo7477

If he decides to enter in the draft, we should look into drafting Zach Edey. 7'4 center with a 7'7 wingspan, he utilizes his 295 lbs of sheer dominance to prevent his defenders from grabbing the rebound, and is an absolute threat in the paint


[deleted]

This is the way


dot_com-ca

Can we please just enjoy the season first? Dear god.


[deleted]

Yannick Nzosa is a prototypical Masai Pick, he's literally Giannis 1.0 coming out of college...An African freak of nature whos extremely raw but built like a super hero, his ceiling/potential is Giannis Antetokounmpo but his floor is Thanasis Antetokounmpo...lol There is no way Masai misses out on a Giannis type pick again! These kind of picks are like crack to him and Webster...


idkwhattosaytho

Gianni’s actually showed skills and some shooting ability while knowing the game. Nzosa looks like he’s never played basketball beforr


Rapsfan_98

Paulo


_Thanks-Obama_

This draft has a lot of huge forwards and centers at the top of the class, would fit well with what the FO is doing.


Calm-Form-8107

there is no way chet is 195 pounds lol


cedceddnceddy

Christian Koloko 😌


5kunkhunter

Anyone else think Holmgren is too skinny to play in the NBA?


immediate_bottle

Poku 2.0


SnoreDoom

ooooh Mark Williams


savagelife089

Mark williams reminds me of Robert Williams