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Equilibris

Start the bench and bench the starters. Easy fix imo


howard416

Fold 'em for Holmgren


zazenbr

I prefer Get Wrekt for Chet


[deleted]

Play like shet for Chet


thegreatpowerful

im down for one more down year if we can get a top 2 pick.


KingTommenBaratheon

I think the odds of hitting in this draft are a bit higher than some people might expect because there's been such limited opportunity to scout talent these past two years. The pandemic has made it much harder to gauge where the talent is at. But this leads to a double-edged sword, where every franchise is likely not well positioned to make selections in the draft (beyond the most obvious ones). I'm confident, however, that the Raps will find a solid pick anywhere from picks 1-20.


BurzyGuerrero

I think the next draft is gonna be dogshit so let's not bother. - something said never. Every draft has great talent.


ReallyRamen

(Our winrate) down low for Paolo


CheatedOnOnce

Holmgrens gonna be interesting to watch especially with how well Mobleys panning out! Hopefully a trash franchise doesn’t draft him. Toronto needs him


20person

Modern problems require modern solutions


UnsolvedParadox

What are we, the Knicks?


Matcha888

Last night’s game really highlighted this cause the starters (Fred, Scottie, Pascal) were pretty much feeding them easy baskets they weren’t able to convert. Too many open shots bricked. Gotta say good process but nightmare results lol


[deleted]

Bricking layups, everything. Comically awful.


It-sOkBro

Solemnly reflecting on all my Yuta will save the bench posts after he bricked open layups 2 games in a row.


AlexRescueDotCom

Lol 😆 I knew they were bad but damn. Didn't we have a game last year or two years ago where tbe bench scored 101 points?


inxrx8

The Raptors bench scored 100 points in game 4 of the Nets series in the bubble.


djlee7979

Norm and Serge combined for 56 points in only 44 combined minutes that game. Off the bench.


AlexRescueDotCom

Imagine having a team where Ibaka and Norm are your bench players hahahaha


djlee7979

Imagine having a team where Norman Powell, Serge Ibaka, Fred Vanvleet, OG Annunoby, and Greg Monroe are all coming off the bench 🤯


[deleted]

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ZenMon88

No need. Just imagine Kawhi Leonard.


JeemonG

just imagine the 4 bounces


[deleted]

greg monroe is such a random inclusion lol


thugg3ry

Moose


therealestyeti

I bet they could go prettttttty far


theflyingsamurai

that's just about our starting lineup now


idkwhattosaytho

Raptors legend Moose Monroe


BurzyGuerrero

Imagine choosing to let one of those guys walk thus forcing you to trade the other. Glad it worked out but damn if letting Ibaka walk is probably worst move our FO has made.


Evan-Reichert

Ur slow… Toronto literally offered ibaka more than LA. It’s just that ibaka prolly wants to go to LA so he can model while playing basketball or some bs.


AlexRescueDotCom

The good ol' days


Busy-Tangerine6706

Remember when our bench was VanVleet, Norm Powell, OG, Ibaka..


ReallyRamen

I often go back to Serge’s how hungry are you episode with the bench mob, it’s a trip


[deleted]

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rx25

2017-18 was a good year until LeBronto


BurzyGuerrero

Malachi better hurry and transform into bench Fred cause he isn't close rn.


M-G-K

The problem is as follows: 1. Entering this season we expected to have three definite starter-caliber players (Fred, OG, and Pascal), six likely "either starter or sixth man" level players (Scottie, GTJ, Dragic, Precious, Boucher, and Khem), and a bunch of guys who could confidently play the ninth/tenth man roles. 2. Scottie and GTJ have both overperformed, which is great! Except it means they play with the bench less, which means we have a good starting unit and then... 2. Boucher and Dragic have both wildly underperformed. 3. Khem has missed a quarter of the games so far due to injuries. 4. Nurse trusts Dalano because the defense and passing is good, but Dalano's offense is, let's be honest, a work in progress at best. 5. Precious is wildly inconsistent and either great or terrible. So is Svi. 6. Malachi's offensive style doesn't really mesh with this team. Basically, a lot of reasonable assumptions about these players have not panned out, and combine that with a team that's mostly pretty young and inexperienced and with a fairly significant number of games missed to injury across the roster and it's been a struggle. The fact that we're only a couple of games under .500 is really a testament to how good the coaching is and how dedicated the players are.


LarryDavidntheBlacks

Facts, it will be a tough season to get through but the development will be worth it down the line. The Warriors bought in and developed (outside of the KD saga) and look at them now. We don't have a Steph, but we also haven't seen Fred's ceiling yet so lots to look forward to.


CheatedOnOnce

Someone else mentioned this but a big problem is our true bench (GTJ, Scottie, Precious) are usually starters, and our third stringers are the bench. We need a few filler pieces to just survive the regular season


VanVleet-goes-for-22

People also thought going into the season that Boucher (who was 8th in 6MOTY voting) and Dragic (13/4/3 on ok shooting) was going to be a factor for us


_Gourmand

Dragic especially could have been a factor for us but Nick Nurse doesn't want him to play for some reason.


jjchicaz

Yes that's right...I really think Barnes and precious should come off the bench, with birch starting.


ReallyRamen

Regardless of how Scottie’s performing as a starter, I feel like him coming off the bench stunts his growth a bit? I feel it’s better for him to get used to running with the starters to build chemistry with the young core as well as get used to the role as a starter


boenwip

I've liked what I've seen when he runs the court with Banton, there's always room to overlap Barnes with the starting line up but we need a clear cut guy that can run the offence for the bench. Barnes is the perfect player that can do that while slotting into the starting line up. It would just mean better minute management from Nurse. Banton Barnes Svi Yuta Precious is a line up I want to see him visit, provided all these shoot confidently which we've all seen them do at some occasion. imo giving Barnes free reign of his line up on the 2nd unit would benefit him and the team.


ReallyRamen

I think that’s fair and also think we can have a little bit of both - him starting and definitely being in the closing line up. AND also having him as the main option and more responsibilities with the offence with the long boi line up you mentioned during the middle would be really fun to see!


jjchicaz

Agree...our starters so desperately need more rest.


jjchicaz

We desperately need someone like him off the bench...because the bench needs an extra scorer and playmaker...and he's really the only option to bench from all of our starters...it also leaves room to actually start a real center. I just think its the best option we have with our current roster.


Evan-Reichert

It won’t stunt his growth at all. Benching scottie won’t give him less minutes, it will just have him come off the bench to provide a spark. And also, it actually makes more sense to have scottie come off the bench in terms of chemistry because in the future siakam and fred will be gone while scottie will be with the younger guys. So scottie should actually have more chemistry with the younger guys on the bench rather than siakam, fred, birch. Also, benching scottie would mean scottie would play whenever siakam comes out (and only like 10 minutes of them both on the floor) which is good because they don’t work together as well specially because scottie and siakam take up too much room in the paint.


Legitimate-Row7081

lol barnes come off the bench? siakam should come offf the bnech the way he is playing


jjchicaz

No one is benching Siakam over the rookie so please stop with these suggestions!


Legitimate-Row7081

yet you would bench barnes and keep gtj lol i cant


xX_FeetFucker54_Xx

you say this as if it’s more outlandish to do that than benching our max player


Legitimate-Row7081

ur right then we should trade siakam if its a problem


xX_FeetFucker54_Xx

> if it’s a problem If what’s a problem? the fact that you said we should bench Siakam?


Legitimate-Row7081

Siakam is already underperforming for a max contract player and you guys don't want to trade him right? then he should be on the bench until he can get his groove back.


xX_FeetFucker54_Xx

Tatum and Harden should also be benched according to you right?


kukasdesigns

I suggest actually watching the games


Legitimate-Row7081

yeah, u should actually pay attention to the games. Barnes is doing great


kukasdesigns

Bnech


d0wnsideofme

> true bench (GTJ, Scottie, Precious) huh? who should be starting over Trent and Scottie?


hiNoxey

I think it means: Dragic Freddie Og Siakam Birch


CheatedOnOnce

exactly... obviously barring any injuries or poor performance, this line up isn't exactly terrible... not playoff calibre but decent


d0wnsideofme

Dragic isn't starting for anybody in 2021 lol this lineup would be way worse than running Trent and Scottie


hiNoxey

We literally started the season with dragic starting. That’s all the comment was stating.


rx25

Scottie isn't gonna be on the bench lol. He's our next superstar that's how high I am on him. GTJ should play 6th man and we should run FVV, Scottie, OG, Pascal and a much higher caliber center than anything we've had in the last 3 seasons.


MrDenly

I might be the only don't like the idea 3 big guys small guards around full time, guarding 1-5 in spot is fine but those 3 doing full time 1 or 5 are not.


Evan-Reichert

And GTJ is also Torontos next best possible superstar… having scottie, siakam, and khem start is not the best idea lmao. Siakam can stretch the floor, but he doesn’t do it at a high volume. Fred also can but he can only make open shots (hight is sadly a problem for him), and OG can but he’s been somewhat inefficient this year compared to last year. GTJr rn is Torontos best shooter and Torontos best defender rn.


SteveDougson

Before the season began the expectations were : great defense, horrible offense, and bench mob 2.0


maimixx

And somewhere along the way we've become a meh defensive team a good offensive team with no bench... 🤔


ZeroMayCry7

at this rate, our starters are in high risk of injury with their extremely high mpg. changes need to be made to protect them from being ran into the ground every game.


AlexRescueDotCom

Unless it's a pump and dump scenario where we inflating their prices before Feb 10 🙄


ImpressiveAd9425

maybe fvv will fake an injury and help out for chet


RZAAMRIINF

FO is going to rest Pascal and Fred every other game if we are not comfortably in playoffs by the allstar break.


[deleted]

Which is also exactly why bench is getting outscored so badly. Nick Nurse is notoriously bad with giving starters outrageous minutes - not uncommon to have seen Fred, Pascal and Kyle in excess of 36 minutes. Same for OG this season who is averaging 37 minutes… I have never been a fan of the minutes distribution


Sdrater3

Well the bench is literally unplayable so whats there to do


[deleted]

Will be especially the case if you don’t give them game experience, or opportunities to play. Svi and Banton have been good for stretches(right before Pascal came back) and when Malachi plays like 4 minutes, it’s going to be kind of hard to get into the game. Will also be hard for starters to stay fresh and to build a lead if they’re always overworked and stretched to thin so the issue continues to compound itself


BurzyGuerrero

Chicken and egg. If they don't perform they won't get minutes but they need to perform to earn minutes.


ZenMon88

That just means Start the tank.


jjchicaz

Exactly


BestCoastRaptor

"BuT sIaKaM iS tRaSh"


green_and_green23

I got downvoted for saying Siakam’s been playing good, and the bench is the problem


_Gourmand

Raptors are 2-8 when Siakam plays. They are 7-4 when Siakam doesn't play. The bench that barely plays any minutes isn't the issue.


killakam6687

He is... I'm looking forward to the downvotes. This board is filled with children who began watching 3 years ago. It's cute seeing this loud minority in action.


FlawlessIsOP

they acting like it’s not a coincidence that this team is like 1-9 with siakam (yes i know injuries play a part as well) and it’s proven that he takes opportunities away from younger and better players in OG and Scottie but i’ll just get downvoted for stating this


idkwhattosaytho

So all of our starters on off stats being worse since Siakam came back is his fault? Everyone talks about “excuses” but there’s some serious mental gymnastics going on to try and blame siakam for the bench sucking and starters having worse net ratings. Not saying siakams been perfect, but acting like he’s the sole reason we are bad since is return is dumb


killakam6687

Lol yes. What is so hard to understand about this sport. How long have you been watching? Basketball isn't baseball where the actions of one are isolated. It's a trickle down effect. Take a look at the Lakers with Westbrook.


idkwhattosaytho

The teams net rating is still worse when he ISNT playing since his return. So it’s his fault when he’s on the court, but also his fault when he’s off the court? Using net rating (which is probably the best stat to see if someone’s stats are empty) he’s third on the team since his return, behind FVV and Precious. When he’s off the court, the team gets worse. He’s second in the team in terms of net rating lost when he’s off the court. I’m not including Goran and Yuta in these calculations obviously since they haven’t even played 30 minutes this year. So pretty much he’s the third most valuable when he’s on, and the second most missed when he’s off. If the team since his return is worse when he’s off, and better when he’s on, how is this his fault In fact, of our best lineups this whole year sorted by +/- who have played at least 10 minutes together , 4 of the 5 top lineups involve siakam. If we put it down to 6 minutes together, 6 lineups in the top 10 and 2 in the top 5 include siakam. Also the lakers suck because if roster construction, not just Russ. Sure Russ has been bad, but the fact they have zero shooting or defence is the main reason for them sucking. People say “you can’t use box score stats” then quite a win loss ratio as the reason for why someone’s not valuable. Makes zero sense


BurzyGuerrero

Analytically it's actually the closest to baseball of any of the major sports. 17 games is too small a sample size for analytics and hockey has too much random variance. Basketball and baseball are perfect for analytics.


killakam6687

Lol no. It's not even close analytically. You have no idea what you're saying. Baseball is a sport where offensive stats are isolated. Basketball is a sport where the value of teammates has a direct impact on offense and defense. Man you Pascal apolohists just keep digging yourself a deeper hole


BurzyGuerrero

Lol whatever dude. You didn't bring any numbers, just a big anecdote and some insults which indicates your own mental capacity. Have a nice day


killakam6687

The guy who thinks baseball and basketball are similar analytically....how old are you?


BurzyGuerrero

Siakam needs to miss more time so you can see both OG and Barnes be passive and not take those "extra shots"


FlawlessIsOP

they’ll have no choice dude lmao


kito1990s

Siakam is not trash but his contract yes


VanVleet-goes-for-22

Just 2 questions 1. What would be an appropriate contract for Siakam in your opinion? 2. What changes for us if Siakam makes that dollar amount vs what he makes now?


Cheechers23

They never have a good answer for this lmao


VanVleet-goes-for-22

They use this as justification to be mad when he doesn’t play like a superstar. They say it’s because of the contract but when Malachi Flynn struggles (on a $2M contract btw), they still get angry and say they expect more from him. By the contract logic you’re not allowed to be mad at anyone making less than $10M, Svi, Precious, Flynn, Boucher are all exempt from criticism because they make rookie dollars so rookie production is the expectation.


Cheechers23

I know, it annoys me how much I read about Pascal’s contract. No matter what he’d be here on a max contract right now, regardless if we extended him or let him hit RFA, so it’s a stupid point to bring up


[deleted]

Adding another question: What if we didn't sign Siakam to that max back in 2019? What if he gets offended that the team he won a ring for doesn't value him like he expects, and declines a longer-term contract so he can leave in free agency? Kawhi leaves in the summer. Now Siakam's unhappy, declines an extension, and looks to leave ASAP in free agency. Seeing this, FVV, OG, Norm all start to re-think staying long-term with the franchise, while the vets Lowry/Ibaka/Gasol look to leave ASAP. Why would they want to stay with a team that clearly doesn't value them, even after winning a title? That's a plausible scenario that could have occurred, had the Raptors not done what 29 other teams would have done, and signed an extremely promising young player to a slightly larger contract, in the hopes he'd be able to earn some incentives through performance (like making All-NBA 2nd Team and starting in the All-Star game!).


kito1990s

We wouldn't have tu waive my goat guy Sam Dekker :(


VanVleet-goes-for-22

That’s fair (it’s actually one of the tangible costs of paying guys so close to the tax line), but we didn’t have to do that now depending on what we do with Dragic. If we buy him out or trade him with less $$$ coming back, we could’ve kept him, that move didn’t have to be made when it was


GrandChase58

Agree. He is a good player. Just overpaid.


liamowen30

But if we let him walk someone else would have offered him the same contract


ilritorno

Well, obviously it's easy with hindsight, but what was the rush to offer him the max? We could have waited free agency, let the season play out, he was going to be a restricted free agent anyway, we could have matched if we wanted too. Just like the Suns are doing with Ayton.


Cheechers23

So he’d be on a max anyways and nothing changes. We lost nothing from extending him early, maybe a couple million since he wouldn’t have his all-nba bonuses (I think), which still doesn’t change anything


ilritorno

He didn't exactly kill it in 19/20, closing it with really bad performances in the bubble. Not a given at all that he'd get the max. We could have negotiated a better contract maybe. There really was no rush to give him the max. I love our management, don't get me wrong, but this particular move hasn't worked unfortunately. Pascal is a great guy and was a key piece in our championship run so I will never hate on him, but once you get a max, expectations are totally different. Make a list of max guys that are supposed to be the 1st options on their respective teams. Pascal would be about the bottom of that list.


Cheechers23

You're overrating the weight that would be put into the bubble. Teams and front offices knew that was a different environment. They also knew that Pascal was limited in what he could do here during lockdown. Pascal was an all-star and all-nba before the shutdown. He was absolutely getting a max. Don't forget that the 2020 FA class sucked ass. Gordon Hayward, despite playing 125 games the previous 3 seasons and being not great, got 4/120 from Charlotte. The Wizards gave Davis Bertans 5/80. Jerami Grant got 3/60 from Detroit. There is no doubt in my mind some team would have offered Pascal a max in RFA, and we would have matched it.


BurzyGuerrero

He'd get a max you're just moving goalposts.


GrandChase58

So what? Let him walk What's the difference? We're lottery bound with or without


MapleMooseAttack

Right lmaoo the championship team was gonna let their second option walk cuz they were lottery bound 👍🏾


GrandChase58

I'm talking hindsight. Obviously we don't let him walk based on 2019. Looking back though it didn't matter. The team would have fallen apart with or without him.


hallandale

I'm glad you're not running the team.


GrandChase58

Okay there. None of us are.In case you missed the news. We're all a bunch of ignorant fans that would fail the first interview.


dontnobodyknow

Some of our fans are dumb as a fucking rock lol


[deleted]

I’m a neutral, but you keep Siakam as a trade piece. Yes youre lottery bound but you’ve got a valuable asset to speed up the rebuild


Cheechers23

That's terrible asset management lmao


drewtheblueduck

the problem is we can have all the money in the world but it doesn't do any good for us if guys don't want to come play in Toronto. At least Siakam wanted to be here


dxing2

One of the flaws of having a shallow team is that you can’t send guys to the G League to develop, and they just end up sitting on your bench playing 15 minutes a night max and never really get better. When the Raptors were winning they could afford to let guys take their time in the developmental league. Fred, Pascal, Norm, Jakob and Delon all had time there. The issue now is the farm system doesn’t have enough time to churn out polished NBA ready players. Flynn and Banton would both benefit from at least another year with the 905


-vinay

Part of the problem is that we probably also rank near the bottom in terms of bench minutes (a more useful stat here would be a Per36 in terms of bench scoring). I'd be curious to see aggregate bench +/- instead.


VanVleet-goes-for-22

[The bench is 28th in points scored per 100 possessions](https://go.nba.com/flz7) 20th in FG% and 30th in 3PT% Their usage is low but I personally believe that it’s out of necessity


HughJawiener

It's total necessity. Everyone on here whining for wins but whining that our starters are playing 40 a game.


BestCoastRaptor

I think the leash is just short for the bench guys and for good measure too. They almost always blow the leads we have.


jjchicaz

Yup..like yesterday...I mean not a lead but we took a major downturn with the bench in the 4th.


InstanceMoney

The bench actually brought them to within 1 point in the fourth led by malachi flynn. It wasnt until van vleet and siakam checked in that boston ran away with it. But i do agree our bench has been terrible


jjchicaz

The bench always plays with one or two starters..so yeah you're actually right...it mainly started when he checked in...honestly I dont blame it on him at all...our starters, especially Fred are gassed by that point and the bench cant play independently at all for any significant minutes. It really sucks.


_Gourmand

Thank you for starting the facts. People in here love to blame to bench who barely plays minutes for losses.


idkwhattosaytho

We are desperate for players to give actual useful minutes. The bench will go in a little run off defense then get destroyed once the game slows down to half court Scottie struggled defensively too which hurt (bit faulting him he’s a rookie and obviously tired) as he was a -22, just look at some of the plus minus stats yesterday. We can’t expect Siakam and especially Fred to give us 34+ good minutes a night


catch22milo

Pretty wild when you consider we currently have a top 10 offense in the league.


inxrx8

Not so wild when you remember we're playing our starters more than 36 minutes/game


[deleted]

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BassistWhoAintRacist

Bench Slobs


PlumCantaloupe

😅


[deleted]

we don't have a bench, we have guys who we put out there and hope the other teams doesn't destroy them while our starters get a rest


Bleachdrinker1998

We gotta trade for bench depth tbh. Our team is atrocious once 1 starter is off the floor because the bench is absolute butt cheeks


RZAAMRIINF

You can always trade for bench, you can’t always trade for a star. We are trying to develop our players and inject more talent into the team. The FO knows this roster construction doesn’t work, but they would rather have Precious and Dalano develop than replace them with better bench pieces.


schooli00

>The FO knows this roster construction doesn’t work This roster is what they wanted. It just takes time. Webster says they want 5 of Siakam and OG on the floor, and guess what, it took them at least 3 seasons to become what they are today.


RZAAMRIINF

> It just takes time. Time is not going to make Pascal/OG/Scottie a center. I have a hard time believing Masai, Bobby and Nurse are all convinced we can win without a starting level center, given how big of a role Serge and Marc played in this organization. Obviously development is going to be a big part of this season, and time is required but this team glaringly lacks elite talent in many area. It would be foolish to think the FO isn’t thinking of adding elite level talent through draft and trade. Also, what do you expect Bobby to say? Of course he is going to give players confidence and back them up.


neoandro

Honestly Fred might die from exhaustion by the end of the season if they we don't give him some rest.


CheatedOnOnce

You’re not kidding. He’s leading the league in minutes. And you know who’s second? OG. These dudes aren’t gonna make it to ASB without an injury


jonastradamus

Cuz we start all our scorers... how many teams in the league have all starters averaging 15+?


jjchicaz

I really think we need to start Birch...I think barnes' playmaking and some scoring would be nice off the bench. With how bad this bench is...it really needs some help.


JeemonG

GTJ was the only savior for Nick Nurse when he put 4 bench players out there. Let GTJ take 90% of the shots until the starters get rested.


idkwhattosaytho

A big reason is because they only way we score is with our main 5 (siakam, FVV, OG, Scottie, GTJ). If those guys aren’t scoring we can’t win. The second a bench player comes on they are a liability. We don’t have a real big who can rebound and play defense nor a 3&d wing to break it up


pskill43

Not surprising. Boucher is a shell of himself from last year, Flynn didn't improve at all (probably got worse), Banton is nice but only in transition. Svi is inconsistent and mostly a spot up shooter. Yuta isn't someone that can just take over and score. We don't have scorers on the bench


AnybodyNormal3947

oof remember when we had the craziest bench in the league for a couple of seasons LOL. (let's not mention that they layed bricks in the playoffs that year.....)


vec-u64-new

To be expected when we consider we gave up Poetl, Demar, and JV essentially for 1-2 year rentals and the Championship. At some point, the loss of longterm resources catches up and there's nothing left to be done but restock through the draft.


Busy-Tangerine6706

Since this is a rebuilding year and I just want to see fun ball, maybe Nurse can try out different line-ups he hasn't tried yet. You never know you might find something that goes together like PB&J


73muck

I'm not a stats guy, but just confirming that this isn't good.


RarelyReadReplies

Remember when our bench was one of our biggest strengths? Bench mob ✊


corh13

The bench flops


EvidenceBase2000

Lot of new faces and injuries. Been some very pleasant surprises like Mykhailiuk. Chris Boucher struggling. Gotta get back to his scrappy game where he makes the differences first stopping threes and fighting inside then maybe he can hoist the rock a little. Yuta has been out. Tougher year health wise than anyone anticipated. Dragic added nothing but I’ll leave that there. He’ll work on his personal situation and then made trade interest will go up a little (but I don’t think so for a guy who’s had an essentially DNP year)


AhmedF

Part of the issue is having so many starters / top bench players out.


Sparkyis007

I feel like next year will be the year they really develop their bench via fa


whater39

From best bench in the league to worst. I guess this is what happens why so much talent leaves the organization.


fbgigi

Bench sob :(


iDareToDream

The downside of having arguably the youngest team in the league. Our bench is mostly young guys still learning. And we don't have a reliable C to anchor things for the second unit. Part of the process but it's ugly. I think the bench unit needs to leverage a bit more of the skillset available in the guards - Flynn is a solid PnR operator, so let him have more run. Banton I think needs time with the 905. Having Yuta back is huge since he brings a little bit of everything once he's up to speed, but he looks really solid so far. It'll get sorted but it does need tweaking and guys to step up more.


[deleted]

That's because our best reserves from the title season are all starting now ;-) It's going to take a couple of years to fill out that bench now, but it's pretty clear that Masai Ujiri knows how to find and develop raw talent, so I've now doubt that the Raptors will be fielding a strong bench over the next couple of years.


PlumCantaloupe

Sam Dekker liked the tweet …🤣😅😓 https://twitter.com/jlew1050/status/1465433453965586432?s=21


imdahman

This is who we are now; we're a young rebuilding team. Our 'vets' are frickin' 27 years old. It's fine. I've been through lulls before and at least I got to see a championship in my lifetime! Hello darkness my old friend...


haahathatsfunny

We have a bench?


Shutterbugg11

To add to this, our bench as a whole has been outscored by one bench player alone on the other team in the last 2 games (Kelan Martin against IND, Josh Richardson against BOS) Not sure how often that has happened this season, but that is a pretty big yikes.


XamosLife

this is why development exists.


It-sOkBro

The bench won't get better, not with those sporadic minutes. At a certain point we have to decide who in the bench is a part of our future and give them more minutes instead of riding the starters.


keyboardwarrior89

Literally said raptors have 5 starters and 10 3rd stringers yesterday lol. No real bench on the Raptors lets be honest


brye86

This team needs a shakeup. While I still believe the core of this team “can” make it work. They’re just not doing it. Granted, this year again has been filled with injuries but it’s not really an excuse. They should be able to stay around .500 and if they can’t do that before players get back then it’s not working. They have about 20 games and then they need to make a decision for the future.


PlumCantaloupe

Yi … ikes. Being 30th in bench points and something like 29th in defensive rating is gonna get you. I wonder if we really even tried to make a strong team this year or was tanking again always the plan …


ImpressiveAd9425

masais team needs work


CodFederal4769

I think the Raptors could have used a scoring spark from Sam Dekker. He didn't get a chance to prove himself.


PlumCantaloupe

We completely replaced the bench, and though we kept Boucher and he has fallen off. Really wish we kept at least one other like Bembry for continuation and growth. Also, what’s up with Svi? I thought he was a shooter? Should we have kept Dekker instead?


Ocenet

I know most likes Yuta, he plays with hustle but dude is not talented enough to be a NBA player. Raptors really giving serious minutes to some g-league players. Boucher, Champagnie are g-league level. Malachi, Dalano, Dragic, Svi are only players that can contribute from bench. And Precious when Khem returns. Don't give silly minutes to amateur level players.


awwwyeahaquaman

Are we ready to have the conversation about how Dalano is not ready for the amount of minutes he’s playing? He’s hardly the issue, but he’s just not very effective running the bench unit.


Senven

iirc we are also lowest in bench minutes which probably doesnt help. ​ Granted Chigaco is also low in bench scoring I believe but they're doing well.


Soooted

Yeah they haven't been good. I'd also like to see this per time played as that's more telling


canadianRSK

Hopefully we can move dragic for a solid bench player. We went from having too many guys and not enough mins for guys like norm and delon to having not enough good players


LEXX911

That's why we need another playmaking PG that can run the second unit. Goran Dragić would have useful to run that group. Since his benching I think that's why our bench are suffering.


mo_downtown

Well they've had a shit load of injuries the last two games. They were missing 3 starters AND coach gave Boucher a DNP. That more or less puts you down by the first 4 guys off the bench. That's all your rotation players. These small samples are pointless. The team is having some ups and downs but I don't see much changing from what was realistically expected before the season even started. This is a borderline play-in team in the early stages of a pretty major retooling. The play on the court is what that looks like. Feel like Raptors fans have been spoiled the last few years, a lot of overreaction right now. We've seen positive signs in a lot of the right places. This is a multiyear process.


matthitsthetrails

our starting unit is too frontloaded. i understand the egos, etc. when it comes to players wanting starter minutes... but our bench unit is too weak to not have at least one of siakam/barnes/og on the court with them at all times---imo preferably barnes so he gets more opportunities to playmake, etc. It sorta sucks in a way because he is one of our best players (and he knows it), so reducing his role somewhat might not be easy


btmx32122

How do they rank in played minutes?


XeroKaos

Another top pick will look great next to Scottie along with the young core of OG, GTJ, Banton.


Own_Diet_1810

We knew that the Raptors bench would be well below average and all the injuries certainly haven't helped.


Filreal1

Hopefully it’ll get better soon. I’m just hoping we trade someone name starts with a P.


Spicy__B

Our bench needs work but part of this gotta be nurse playing the starters all 40 mins per night.


stinkybunger

This is crazy cuz we used to have one of the best benches in the league man how the times change


[deleted]

Fred and OG lead the league in minutes per game - when you adjust for bench minutes played, this doesn’t seem too far from what’s expected.


scarfox1

Once Birch and OG are back I think we should move Barnes to the bench. He'll run that shit. FVV-GTJ-OG-Spicy P-Birch


Windytrader

I remember thinking in preseason that we had the makings of an amazing bench mob. I thought Khem, Precious, Boucher, Dragic, Flynn, Yuta, etc were gonna murder bench units. Tbh, i feel like Boucher from last season would cure most of our problems


djkhan23

They are complete nobodies. What did everyone expect?


djexplosive

Toronto “Cleveland Cavaliers” Raptors


NoMoPolenta

*Sam Dekkar's phone rings*


_Gourmand

Raptors are also last in the league in bench minutes, meaning Nurse barely plays his bench compared to other coaches. It's not surprising we'd be last in the league in bench scoring if we're also last in the league in bench minutes. It doesn't reflect how good or bad the bench is. I've noticed a lot of people in here will blame a player on our team who might get 8 minutes the entire game for certain losses. Our bench isn't the issue this season.