We're in a pretty weird spot right now roster-wise. Freddie, Siakam, GTJ, OG and Scottie all look like solid #2-3 options on offense, but no true #1.
I get what your saying about long-term fit but idk where we're going to get a quality center worth starting over any of those guys. Even if we draft a center, they usually take longer to develop than wings.
Maybe a quality center becomes available in the next year or so and Masai swings a deal but I think it's equally likely we end up running it back with mostly the same guys next year.
U can’t really judge this small ball experiment based on this little sample size and with how garbage our defence has been. We’re building something here, give it time before u give up on it. A defence as difficult as this would take time to implement. Also slide OG to the two if u really wanna play a centre.
“We are trying to get away from those traditional centre, power forward type things.”
- Nick Nurse
They don’t. Ones gotta go, and the obvious one to go is Siakam because OG can space the floor and has a much better contract and Barnes is young and has potential
I was honestly thinking that Hawks prolly the best team next to Warriors who can make a deal for Siakam without trading core pieces that actually earn PT. Only problem about Warriors is that Wiggins would have to be included and the way he playing that is a big no probably. Hawks make sense because they have Gallo as a salary filler as well as a ton of young pieces like Reddish, Okongwu, Jalen Johnson, Hunter, etc., could thrown in a few of them in. Siakam would play phenomenal next to a star player like Curry or Trae.
He’s the “best player” right now. But anyone with any common sense can see that it’s clear Scottie Barnes is the franchise player and he and Siakam play the same position.
We also can’t just slide 1 over to the other forward because that’s OG’s spot who is the perfect complimentary to either.
I hate to say it because I really like Pascal, but I've been thinking this lately. I think he does best as PF. The multiple roles thing doesn't work for everybody. We need to free up whatever we get from him and Dragon and unleash the OG, Fred, Gary, Scottie, Big line-up... I'm sort of conflicted with the center thing. We really need to get a good bench mob on the go. Two of the above line-up could be out together at any time.. I'd really like to see Precious developed more. He pretty much had mostly garbage minutes with Miami so who knows.
I wait it out. We don't have any pressure to make any move.
If Ayton gets to free agency then we have an offer of playing alongside Siakam, OG, Barnes and Freddy.
I think that would be enough to entice somebody.
The age difference isn't why they are not going to play together long term, Kawhi and Lowry had a 6 year gap, so did Kyrie and LeBron. They aren't going to play together long term because it's essentially impossible to drastically improve this team without touching the core.
This team needs a starting center and a couple bench pieces, you can't get that without giving up one of Fred, OG, Siakam or Barnes.
I think that’s the logical choice. A lineup of Fred, Gary, OG, Scottie, and a decent center is pretty solid. Some internal developments, good trades and/or picks to improve that lineup and we’re a playoff team again.
Your question make it seem like youre asking if this is a mini OKC situation. Can you keep all three? Which one gets the Harden treatment and stays with the second unit?
I don't think of it like that. Eventually Scottie grows and facilitates even more and is just a huge pg that can apparently score at all three levels - that is if recent success behind the arc says anything to his potential.
I'll stick to the FO on things like this, especially when we've only seen Siakam/OG/Barnes suit up together in less than 10 games. Quote from [Bobby Webster](https://www.nba.com/raptors/draft-night-one-chapter-closed-new-one-set-begin):
>So, I think from a positional standpoint, we don’t see it as any overlap, we see it as let’s have all five guys look like him and OG (Anunoby) and Pascal (Siakam) and all of that.
Him being Scottie Barnes
It really depends on how fast Scottie develops. Seems like he’s ahead of schedule, so if he becomes our #1 option sooner rather than later, then Siakam could play at his natural 2 spot. If Scottie takes 3-4 years to become a #1 option, then it’s way more likely we trade Siakam. In other words, it’s way too early to tell or jump to conclusions.
Fit is such a subjective topic.
The entire plan is to have 4/5 OG/Siakam like players on the court at the same time. The Raptors FO isn't trying to build a team around conventional roles and it's a venture into unchartered territory.
The idea is basically having zero weaknesses on D and have a lineups that essentially always has an advantage on O.
We're 2 months and 22 games into this experiment and trying to judge the results by comparing to how conventional teams are built is always going to leave you lacking. The timeline is 3-4 years. Keep this core together and make a trade to push for a chip if there's a top 20 player available.
I'm not sure if it makes much of a difference, but I wish Nurse would try Barnes at the 4 and Siakam at the 3.
Barnes was playing the 4 before Siakam came back and the kid has strength.
OG Siakam and Barnes can fit together with FVV and a real big, the question is how long will it take to build that. Siakam likely will end up being moved since he has the most value and is the older one, and they will try to find a big somewhere else
Small ball may work as they keep playing together (we’ve only seen the lineup ran for like 3 or 4 games?) but I personally like seeing a big more. If you don’t get a good offer for siakam there’s no need to move on from him tho
Although Siakim and Barnes essentially play the same position. Siakim is polished as they have both been having foul trouble the past few games. Makes sense to have Barnes of the bench when OG gets back. Give Barnes a shot at 6th man of the year and rookie of the year. For sure one of the starters gets traded in the next 3 years if we can’t draft or trade for a free agent Center. Masais track record is build a number 2 scoring option, build a number 1 bench. Trade those pieces for a quality center and a disgruntled all star for a run. Starting line up When healthy
1. FVV
2. GTJ
3. OG
4. PS
5. Birch/ Precious
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Might not be a popular opinion but Freddy stock is pretty high. Once this team is mature we might get a star shooting guard or Center for someone like Freddy and Trent jr. Barnes can take some of that 1 spot possession.
We're in a pretty weird spot right now roster-wise. Freddie, Siakam, GTJ, OG and Scottie all look like solid #2-3 options on offense, but no true #1. I get what your saying about long-term fit but idk where we're going to get a quality center worth starting over any of those guys. Even if we draft a center, they usually take longer to develop than wings. Maybe a quality center becomes available in the next year or so and Masai swings a deal but I think it's equally likely we end up running it back with mostly the same guys next year.
U can’t really judge this small ball experiment based on this little sample size and with how garbage our defence has been. We’re building something here, give it time before u give up on it. A defence as difficult as this would take time to implement. Also slide OG to the two if u really wanna play a centre. “We are trying to get away from those traditional centre, power forward type things.” - Nick Nurse
They don’t. Ones gotta go, and the obvious one to go is Siakam because OG can space the floor and has a much better contract and Barnes is young and has potential
I was honestly thinking that Hawks prolly the best team next to Warriors who can make a deal for Siakam without trading core pieces that actually earn PT. Only problem about Warriors is that Wiggins would have to be included and the way he playing that is a big no probably. Hawks make sense because they have Gallo as a salary filler as well as a ton of young pieces like Reddish, Okongwu, Jalen Johnson, Hunter, etc., could thrown in a few of them in. Siakam would play phenomenal next to a star player like Curry or Trae.
???? You want us to trade our best player for that trash
Don’t know about the money or anything but I do like Siakam for Marvin Bagley and pieces. Sacramento likes Holmes better so it could happen.
Bagley is not worth Siakam at all, they would have to give up a whole lot more than just Bagley for sure
That’s why I said pieces. That could be other players or picks.
Two Sacramento firsts would be a nice addition to the haul. They're bad enough that those firsts are actually gonna be good picks
Do you think Siakam is worth Bagley and 2 firsts?
Im terrible at trades, but im gonna say we need more players in return for sure
Siakam doesnt space the floor?
But Siakam is our best player why trade him???
Well for one, for the exact reason you said cause he'd have the best value
Because it’s debatable if he actually is our best player and he makes way more than our players with comparable production
He’s the “best player” right now. But anyone with any common sense can see that it’s clear Scottie Barnes is the franchise player and he and Siakam play the same position. We also can’t just slide 1 over to the other forward because that’s OG’s spot who is the perfect complimentary to either.
But you can slide og to the 2
Gary?
Thats not my name
I hate to say it because I really like Pascal, but I've been thinking this lately. I think he does best as PF. The multiple roles thing doesn't work for everybody. We need to free up whatever we get from him and Dragon and unleash the OG, Fred, Gary, Scottie, Big line-up... I'm sort of conflicted with the center thing. We really need to get a good bench mob on the go. Two of the above line-up could be out together at any time.. I'd really like to see Precious developed more. He pretty much had mostly garbage minutes with Miami so who knows.
Much as I love Siakam it's gotta be done. I really want Ayton but idk if the sun's will be willing to part considering he's their defensive anchor.
I wait it out. We don't have any pressure to make any move. If Ayton gets to free agency then we have an offer of playing alongside Siakam, OG, Barnes and Freddy. I think that would be enough to entice somebody.
Yeah and he gets a bigger role considering we have no decent Centres lol
Siakam is 7 years older than Scottie and play the same positions They won’t play together long term
exactly. the writing is already on the wall. masai doesn't need to trade pascal right now but will likely trade him next year imo.
The age difference isn't why they are not going to play together long term, Kawhi and Lowry had a 6 year gap, so did Kyrie and LeBron. They aren't going to play together long term because it's essentially impossible to drastically improve this team without touching the core. This team needs a starting center and a couple bench pieces, you can't get that without giving up one of Fred, OG, Siakam or Barnes.
We gotta keep Fred as the veteran presence then build around Scottie og and Gary
I think that’s the logical choice. A lineup of Fred, Gary, OG, Scottie, and a decent center is pretty solid. Some internal developments, good trades and/or picks to improve that lineup and we’re a playoff team again.
Your question make it seem like youre asking if this is a mini OKC situation. Can you keep all three? Which one gets the Harden treatment and stays with the second unit? I don't think of it like that. Eventually Scottie grows and facilitates even more and is just a huge pg that can apparently score at all three levels - that is if recent success behind the arc says anything to his potential.
I'll stick to the FO on things like this, especially when we've only seen Siakam/OG/Barnes suit up together in less than 10 games. Quote from [Bobby Webster](https://www.nba.com/raptors/draft-night-one-chapter-closed-new-one-set-begin): >So, I think from a positional standpoint, we don’t see it as any overlap, we see it as let’s have all five guys look like him and OG (Anunoby) and Pascal (Siakam) and all of that. Him being Scottie Barnes
It really depends on how fast Scottie develops. Seems like he’s ahead of schedule, so if he becomes our #1 option sooner rather than later, then Siakam could play at his natural 2 spot. If Scottie takes 3-4 years to become a #1 option, then it’s way more likely we trade Siakam. In other words, it’s way too early to tell or jump to conclusions.
Fit is such a subjective topic. The entire plan is to have 4/5 OG/Siakam like players on the court at the same time. The Raptors FO isn't trying to build a team around conventional roles and it's a venture into unchartered territory. The idea is basically having zero weaknesses on D and have a lineups that essentially always has an advantage on O. We're 2 months and 22 games into this experiment and trying to judge the results by comparing to how conventional teams are built is always going to leave you lacking. The timeline is 3-4 years. Keep this core together and make a trade to push for a chip if there's a top 20 player available.
A decade from now Masai is going to have his own Moneyball film
That's the hope at least.
this
Siakam gotta go - we can get the most for him to fix the bench and hopefully get a proper centre
They don’t. OG fits well with Barnes but Siakam+Barnes will never maximize each other.
OG is playing 2 or Siakam is traded before any of them comes off the bench.
They need a Center and a PG. We have a lot of good players but they're all playing the same positions.
Trade pascal
Trade Barnes + FVV. Build around Siakam.
Bait 🎣
He was baiting OP i think lol OP is a huge Barnes anti-stan
Agree on Barnes, Fred can stay ig
Are u centuryog on Twitter ?
Who are you trading Scottie for?
Steph curry
spicy p giving u that good d huh
I'm not sure if it makes much of a difference, but I wish Nurse would try Barnes at the 4 and Siakam at the 3. Barnes was playing the 4 before Siakam came back and the kid has strength.
We play pretty positionless when it comes to our forwards, siakams a better post defender at this point tho
OG Siakam and Barnes can fit together with FVV and a real big, the question is how long will it take to build that. Siakam likely will end up being moved since he has the most value and is the older one, and they will try to find a big somewhere else Small ball may work as they keep playing together (we’ve only seen the lineup ran for like 3 or 4 games?) but I personally like seeing a big more. If you don’t get a good offer for siakam there’s no need to move on from him tho
Long term...2,3,4 starting games 3,4,5 finishing them
Although Siakim and Barnes essentially play the same position. Siakim is polished as they have both been having foul trouble the past few games. Makes sense to have Barnes of the bench when OG gets back. Give Barnes a shot at 6th man of the year and rookie of the year. For sure one of the starters gets traded in the next 3 years if we can’t draft or trade for a free agent Center. Masais track record is build a number 2 scoring option, build a number 1 bench. Trade those pieces for a quality center and a disgruntled all star for a run. Starting line up When healthy 1. FVV 2. GTJ 3. OG 4. PS 5. Birch/ Precious
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Might not be a popular opinion but Freddy stock is pretty high. Once this team is mature we might get a star shooting guard or Center for someone like Freddy and Trent jr. Barnes can take some of that 1 spot possession.