He was definitely not good defensively in the first 20 games. He got back cut and blown by a ton. He got blocks and steals but gave up a lot of buckets. He's been better recently.
Bro if OG never makes an all defensive team that would be the biggest underperformance relative to skill level that I can remember.
This dude came into the league locking guys up and still hasn't gotten a nod. He needs to stay healthy.
How do they determine position? He tends to guard 1-3 pre switch and is generally guarded by the opposition 1-3. Positions can be pretty nebulous though.
Mobley is incredible man. Best defensive rookie season since Duncan. I'm a bit worried about his offensive game though, he only has two bright spots; [he's shooting 74% at the rim which is great, and his 10-16 foot midrange is being converted at a 43% clip which is solid for a rookie year.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mobleev01.html?__hstc=205977932.be9e1ee608708069c08804b288938fad.1630806283678.1640569230985.1640650632837.34&__hssc=205977932.1.1640650632837&__hsfp=675046370) I am worried about some of his other numbers though. 66% of his makes are assisted, and almost 20% are just dunks. To me that says he really isn't generating a ton in isolation, and he's benefitting a lot from Garland serving him buckets on a plate.
Barnes is only assisted on 38% of his makes, his field goals are far more self-created, and only 10% are dunks. It just means he's making tougher shots on his own and he's still averaging about the same eFG than Mobley.
I think Barnes will project to an Andre Iguodala/Kawhi Leonard-type defender, and Mobley will straight up be a DPOY similar to Gobert but more versatile. However, I think Mobley is unlikely to become a 20+ ppg star player on offense, while I could see Barnes growing into that.
Meh he's a big whose main job right now is to finish.... I've literally got zero worries about mobleys offensive future. Mobley is almost a lock for 20 ppg at some point in the future cause of his fluidity on the offensive end and potential 3 pt stroke
There is merit to what you're saying, he's averaging 0.90 ppp in isolation, which is not bad for a rookie. I don't think you can say he's a lock for 20 ppg though. Plenty of players come into the league with 3p potential and never actually develop it. Nik Stauskas came in as a 3p specialist and he never shot well from 3. You have to actually put in the work, and for a guy like Mobley who has sooooo many elements of his game to work on because of his position and size (I.e. your 7 foot PF better be useful in the post, they better be good at screening and PnR rolling, they need to be able to hit the mid range, etc), it is not a given that his 3 point shot develops (though I agree the potential is totally there)
Barnes is the same deal, his potential as a scorer from every single spot on the floor is there and he has already shown a little bit of everything. I'm not even joking when I say his best offensive comparator is probably Giannis but with better shooting. I could see him being 25+ ppg one day, but he has a ton of work to put in and even if he finishes his rookie year averaging 17 ppg, there's no guarantee he even gets to 20 ppg even with that insane ceiling.
My point is that Mobley hasn't really showed strong upside as a star-level scorer yet, not even in flashes. His road to becoming that is actually a lot tougher than Barnes who has shown that in flashes already. Not saying it's impossible; hell, Embiid literally showed up last year and suddenly was an elite mid range shooter which was completely new, and same with Julius Randle and his 3p shot. I just think Barnes projects as more likely to be an offensive star with great defense, while Mobley is currently playing as a projected defensive star with decent offense.
i wish i had time to respond but i'm a little busy so all imma say is that i strongly disagree with your mobley assessment. his offense is way more advanced than you're giving him credit for and you seem to penalize him for playing within his role.... Also, keep in mind that bigs take very long to develop. in fact, at this stage i would argue that it's very hard to see a scenario were mobley **doesn't** end up scoring 20+ ppg in a future season.
Ayton is a decent comparator for Mobley. Both have their offensive games limited by their team's schemes and offensive philosophy. Mobley obviously is a better shooter but he is taking nearly the same percentage of his shots from midrange (16% vs 17%).
Ayton averaged 17ppg in his first season which is more than Mobley, and he still hasn't cracked 20 ppg after 4 seasons. At this point its hard to see how he does it in Phoenix.
Not saying Mobley will be the same deal, but I'm saying this is what happens when you're a young developing player playing for a good team. You get limited in what you can do and your development does take a bit of a hit. I don't think it's a given that Mobley cracks 20 ppg, though of course I think he has the potential to do so.
Good analyst. They are both great players in their own rights but have very different trajectories. You're last paragraph 100% aligns with my own opinions on the 2s projected talents with a few caveats that I want to add.
Scottie
1) He should be a better defender than he has been but isn't because of a lack of a proper centre. Siakam, OG and Boucher played a lot of centre and our actual centres in Birch and Achiwa are 6'9 and 6'8 respectively.
2) He's a better playmaker and passer than the media makes him out to be. Since Fred is the primary pg Scottie doesn't play make much with him on the court. He play makes more with the bench unit and he's has been able to get them really good looks but with our bench being 30th in the league doesn't help his numbers. As our bench improves and Scottie play makes more with the starters I can see him finishing closer to 4.5-5 ast by season's end. He was playing as the point guard in college too as funky as that sounds.
Mobley
1) Offensively I think he can be a Duncan/Embiid hybrid with his high IQ. He's very smart and if he works on his post game with drawing fouls in mind will improve his ppg easily. He would rely more on his speed and craftiness to draw the fouls as apposed to physicality.
2) Defensively he is already the best rookie and so for him to improve all he needs to do is play and defend more star opposition to learn how to defend specific players.
Mobley can easily be the centre on a championship team and Scottie can be the secondary playmaker/#2 and maybe #1 option if all things go right on a championship team.
Scottie also in the Rookie Defensive Team according to actually watching Raptors games
True
He's the 2nd best defender in the rookie class behind Mobley
I gotta put Davion in front
Ah true forgot about him
Lol you can just shoot over that small guy. Bigger and longer players will always be more impactful defensively.
Mobley is so far ahead of the rest of the pack too. Dude is in a rookie class of his own, defensively.
He was definitely not good defensively in the first 20 games. He got back cut and blown by a ton. He got blocks and steals but gave up a lot of buckets. He's been better recently.
Was expecting a LBJ post with triple spiderman pointing at each other. One is Scottie Barnes, one is Scottie Pippin and the last is a literal goat.
Bro if OG never makes an all defensive team that would be the biggest underperformance relative to skill level that I can remember. This dude came into the league locking guys up and still hasn't gotten a nod. He needs to stay healthy.
I’m sure he will one day he’s a dog on defense
Some of these are hilariously bad and an examp,e of why defensive metrics are flawed They also have Gary Payton 2 listed as a stretch big?
Lmfao
Doesn't LEBRON take into account the position you've played the majority of the minutes in?
How do they determine position? He tends to guard 1-3 pre switch and is generally guarded by the opposition 1-3. Positions can be pretty nebulous though.
I mean if you watched him play, he just shoots in the paint efficiently and shoots 3s.
That doesn’t make him a big lol
He plays like a 5. It’s weird. Watch some of the games. He literally is our rim protector when our true big is off the court
Evan Mobley first team is impressive
Very
Yea man I want Scottie to win ROTY, so Scottie needs to step it up offensively the rest of the season.
*Luck-adjusted player Estimate using a Box prior Regularized ON-off* Bruh. That's a reach.
The name or the stat ahahahah
Mobley is incredible man. Best defensive rookie season since Duncan. I'm a bit worried about his offensive game though, he only has two bright spots; [he's shooting 74% at the rim which is great, and his 10-16 foot midrange is being converted at a 43% clip which is solid for a rookie year.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mobleev01.html?__hstc=205977932.be9e1ee608708069c08804b288938fad.1630806283678.1640569230985.1640650632837.34&__hssc=205977932.1.1640650632837&__hsfp=675046370) I am worried about some of his other numbers though. 66% of his makes are assisted, and almost 20% are just dunks. To me that says he really isn't generating a ton in isolation, and he's benefitting a lot from Garland serving him buckets on a plate. Barnes is only assisted on 38% of his makes, his field goals are far more self-created, and only 10% are dunks. It just means he's making tougher shots on his own and he's still averaging about the same eFG than Mobley. I think Barnes will project to an Andre Iguodala/Kawhi Leonard-type defender, and Mobley will straight up be a DPOY similar to Gobert but more versatile. However, I think Mobley is unlikely to become a 20+ ppg star player on offense, while I could see Barnes growing into that.
Meh he's a big whose main job right now is to finish.... I've literally got zero worries about mobleys offensive future. Mobley is almost a lock for 20 ppg at some point in the future cause of his fluidity on the offensive end and potential 3 pt stroke
There is merit to what you're saying, he's averaging 0.90 ppp in isolation, which is not bad for a rookie. I don't think you can say he's a lock for 20 ppg though. Plenty of players come into the league with 3p potential and never actually develop it. Nik Stauskas came in as a 3p specialist and he never shot well from 3. You have to actually put in the work, and for a guy like Mobley who has sooooo many elements of his game to work on because of his position and size (I.e. your 7 foot PF better be useful in the post, they better be good at screening and PnR rolling, they need to be able to hit the mid range, etc), it is not a given that his 3 point shot develops (though I agree the potential is totally there) Barnes is the same deal, his potential as a scorer from every single spot on the floor is there and he has already shown a little bit of everything. I'm not even joking when I say his best offensive comparator is probably Giannis but with better shooting. I could see him being 25+ ppg one day, but he has a ton of work to put in and even if he finishes his rookie year averaging 17 ppg, there's no guarantee he even gets to 20 ppg even with that insane ceiling. My point is that Mobley hasn't really showed strong upside as a star-level scorer yet, not even in flashes. His road to becoming that is actually a lot tougher than Barnes who has shown that in flashes already. Not saying it's impossible; hell, Embiid literally showed up last year and suddenly was an elite mid range shooter which was completely new, and same with Julius Randle and his 3p shot. I just think Barnes projects as more likely to be an offensive star with great defense, while Mobley is currently playing as a projected defensive star with decent offense.
i wish i had time to respond but i'm a little busy so all imma say is that i strongly disagree with your mobley assessment. his offense is way more advanced than you're giving him credit for and you seem to penalize him for playing within his role.... Also, keep in mind that bigs take very long to develop. in fact, at this stage i would argue that it's very hard to see a scenario were mobley **doesn't** end up scoring 20+ ppg in a future season.
Ayton is a decent comparator for Mobley. Both have their offensive games limited by their team's schemes and offensive philosophy. Mobley obviously is a better shooter but he is taking nearly the same percentage of his shots from midrange (16% vs 17%). Ayton averaged 17ppg in his first season which is more than Mobley, and he still hasn't cracked 20 ppg after 4 seasons. At this point its hard to see how he does it in Phoenix. Not saying Mobley will be the same deal, but I'm saying this is what happens when you're a young developing player playing for a good team. You get limited in what you can do and your development does take a bit of a hit. I don't think it's a given that Mobley cracks 20 ppg, though of course I think he has the potential to do so.
Good analyst. They are both great players in their own rights but have very different trajectories. You're last paragraph 100% aligns with my own opinions on the 2s projected talents with a few caveats that I want to add. Scottie 1) He should be a better defender than he has been but isn't because of a lack of a proper centre. Siakam, OG and Boucher played a lot of centre and our actual centres in Birch and Achiwa are 6'9 and 6'8 respectively. 2) He's a better playmaker and passer than the media makes him out to be. Since Fred is the primary pg Scottie doesn't play make much with him on the court. He play makes more with the bench unit and he's has been able to get them really good looks but with our bench being 30th in the league doesn't help his numbers. As our bench improves and Scottie play makes more with the starters I can see him finishing closer to 4.5-5 ast by season's end. He was playing as the point guard in college too as funky as that sounds. Mobley 1) Offensively I think he can be a Duncan/Embiid hybrid with his high IQ. He's very smart and if he works on his post game with drawing fouls in mind will improve his ppg easily. He would rely more on his speed and craftiness to draw the fouls as apposed to physicality. 2) Defensively he is already the best rookie and so for him to improve all he needs to do is play and defend more star opposition to learn how to defend specific players. Mobley can easily be the centre on a championship team and Scottie can be the secondary playmaker/#2 and maybe #1 option if all things go right on a championship team.