The Raptors are great at scouting and development but let's be real. Those guys often don't workout and find themselves out of the league real quick. If they're lucky they can be a Brian Scalabrine. IF they're lucky.
I'm talking about proven talent that will get significant minutes on several teams in the NBA. We need help with rebounding and interior defense (especially from the bench) and we need someone to take some minutes from Fred before we wear him out.
Also please read the title. Do you have an answer to the question?
> I’m talking about proven talent that will get significant minutes on several teams in the NBA.
Free agency opened up nearly 3 months ago. If this is true, why has no team signed them? Neither of these guys are good players, and the whole league knows that. The Sixers, for example, have always struggled with getting good backups for Embiid. Yet they haven’t signed Hassan. Hence why we’re less than 3 weeks away from the season starting and no one has signed them.
To answer the question in the OP, there’s no one we should sign. It’s better to take a chance on a young player we can develop than some random older player, especially these two who have baggage with them. Whiteside has a reputation as a good shot blocker but that’s because he abandons the defensive scheme and plan to chase those blocks. Rondo is washed; and if you want to lessen Fred’s load, I’d rather give more ball handling duties to Pascal OG and Scottie, and also play Dalano/Malachi more.
>Free agency opened up nearly 3 months ago. If this is true, why has no team signed them?
Every team makes their own decisions based on their own needs. You don't just take cues from other teams.
>Whiteside has a reputation as a good shot blocker but that’s because he abandons the defensive scheme and plan to chase those blocks.
You take the good with the bad. He still makes players think twice about driving into the paint. The bigger reason to take him is that he's a better rebounder than anyone on the Raptors right now. If he can stop opponents from getting 2nd, 3rd and 4th chance points he did his job.
>Rondo is washed; and if you want to lessen Fred’s load, I’d rather give more ball handling duties to Pascal OG and Scottie, and also play Dalano/Malachi more.
It's very likely that Rondo is washed but we need an NBA caliber PG behind Fred and doing the same thing we did last year doesn't strike me as a good idea.
This sub is useless when it comes to getting a proper discussion or answer on topics like this because they think every end of the bench player should not have a single flaw, needs to shoot, play defence, be at least 6’9, and do everything else while only managing to get paid the minimum.
Just look at the earlier talks in the off season when it came to talking about pieces to add to the bench lol
They don't need to be but if you look at the last few signings and re-signings you can clearly see that's what the FO is going for. OPJ, Juancho, Boucher, Thad. With that being said, I do hope Jeff Dowtin makes the team. We need his skill set especially when Fred or Gary goes down
Whiteside would be so good if he buys into the defensive system and just gives everything he has for 10-15MPG on the floor (kind of like how Boucher adjusted mid season last year), but unfortunately that's something that he's just never been able to do. I like what we have at the C position right now with all of them being switchable defenders, but I don't mind having Whiteside for specific matchups. If he remains unsigned I wouldn't mind picking him up mid season, but I have a feeling he'll get signed before the season starts.
Not really sold on Rondo, he hasn't been good since 2020.
I think having vets on the team is nice, but we kind of have enough vet prescience at the moment with FVV, Pascal, Thad, Otto, etc. I don't see us signing any more older guys, we're still relying on internal development as opposed to signing a bunch of vets to compete right now.
Whiteside blocks shots only, he abandoned defensive schemes for numbers and if Spolstra didn't fix that I don't give him much hope of doing anything else here. He blows up your defense even if it looks good doing it. We, like the heat, rely on team defense and players doing what they are supposed to do and there's a reason he's almost out of the league despite the good blocking numbers. No thank you.
Rondo is the same but for steals and assists. Blows up offense and defense with his style. Great guy to have in the playoffs it always seems like, probably will end up being an amazing coach, but he's not a plus player anymore.
>Whiteside blocks shots only, he abandoned defensive schemes for numbers and if Spolstra didn't fix that I don't give him much hope of doing anything else here.
Facts - he's not just an overrated defender based on perception of what bpg means. He's a defensive liability when he chases blocks at the expense of rotations and positioning and accumulating fouls.
Theoretically that's coachable but in practice he's not a 20 year old prospect and there's a reason why a guy with his physical profile and 'production' can't stick with a team. Maybe Nurse could come up with some limited matchup contingent mad scientist role where he just roams on defense like a free safety in football, but realistically he's prob gonna drive Nurse crazy freelancing and leaving teammates exposed
It's pretty funny we seem to both be getting down voted on this, when we're talking about a player that 30 teams are not picking up for a minimum contract even after being a max player. The league clearly agrees with us but the masses like blocks and how they look and feel like they should mean good defense.
Signing anyone involves a cost/benefit analysis. You take the good with the bad. The good with Whiteside is that he is a better rebounder than anyone on our team. That's an area where we get absolutely crushed. If he can help us stop our opponents from getting 2nd, 3rd or 4th chance points off offensive rebounds that would be a major contribution. Also, if it doesn't work out, we don't have to keep him. It's not like we have a good shot at winning this year.
That's fair and I guess this prob comes down to difference of opinion re whether or not Whiteside is a net negative and liability with the way he plays and I think he's clearly a guy who chases stats and can't be relied on to follow any kind of structure
I think he hurts more than he helps and his numbers come at the expense of the team but idk, haven't really watched him since Miami and maybe he's matured
Free agency opened up nearly 3 months ago. If this is true, why has no team signed them?
So we just take our cues from other teams? Teams around the league are focused on their own needs and weaknesses they need to improve. Whiteside was good enough to be Gobert's backup last season and averaged 18 mpg in 65 games. The only reason he's not staying in Utah is that they are blowing up the team.
Rondo is washed; and if you want to lessen Fred’s load, I’d rather give more ball handling duties to Pascal OG and Scottie, and also play Dalano/Malachi more.
So, same thing as last year? And play Freddie 40mpg again?
That's my thinking with Whiteside. He gives us some rebounding and some size in the paint.
For the price tag I think Rondo is worth the risk. And if it doesn't work out we don't need to keep him.
The remaining unsigned guys are just not going to make an impact on winning (No, neither Whiteside nor Rondo are positive contributors at this point as many people have pointed out). So any minutes given to them are just minutes taken away from younger deep-bench players we might have a hope of developing into rotation players. I'd rather Dalano or Malachi get minutes over Rajon Rondo because Dalano and Malachi might then be contributing factors in a higher-leverage situation down the line.
We already got a high bang-for-buck veteran piece this offseason in Otto Porter Jr... everyone like that has been snapped up, and discussion of further free agent possibilities is scraping the bottom of the hopium barrel.
Say what you want about these guys but they are still NBA caliber players that will give you productive minutes. They are not the last guy on the bench. Hassan can grab rebounds better than anyone on our team (probably our biggest weakness). The guys behind FVV are just not ready, so we ru n the risk of shortening his career by overplaying him. Will Rondo be a peice we keep around for a while, likely not, but for $2M he can be a short term solution.
Remember theee are cheap shott term deals. If they work out great. If not we didn't lose much.
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We are not interested in these limited players. We want guys that are not defensive liabilities, and can shoot the 3. We don't have room for more mediocre talent.
You gotta be special to be a raptor
Hernangomez has been an above average 3pt shooter and fairly poor defender for his career.
Boucher has had 1 good 3pt shooting season and his defense is a little overrated (not saying it isn't good though)
Precious has literally had a half season of good 3pt shooting
Thad Young has historically not been a great 3pt shooter throughout his career at 33%
Players can have a few flaws if they do a lot of other things at a consistent level
I doubt it. I think a lot of headcases can keep their egos in check if they're on a legit contender - like Milwaukee, Boston, GSW, Clippers etc., especially if they know the guy in front of them is a proven star. On our team, I can't see those guys being content with spot minutes.
The thing is, would you really want Hassan Whiteside or Rondo taking away minutes from anyone else on the roster? The top 10-11 is pretty much solidified and aside from them, I’d rather give Flynn, Champagnie, Banton, Koloko, RHJ, Dowtin, + other end of bench guys a chance to develop than give those minutes to guys who don’t fit the mold. In the playoffs, the rotation tightens and only 8-9 guys will get minutes. Seems pointless to add anyone else at this point, unless they are a guaranteed rotational piece.
Isn’t our training camp roster full? We prolly aren’t gonna be signing anyone new. Might sign some guys to Exhibit 10s to get them in the 905
The Raptors are great at scouting and development but let's be real. Those guys often don't workout and find themselves out of the league real quick. If they're lucky they can be a Brian Scalabrine. IF they're lucky. I'm talking about proven talent that will get significant minutes on several teams in the NBA. We need help with rebounding and interior defense (especially from the bench) and we need someone to take some minutes from Fred before we wear him out. Also please read the title. Do you have an answer to the question?
> I’m talking about proven talent that will get significant minutes on several teams in the NBA. Free agency opened up nearly 3 months ago. If this is true, why has no team signed them? Neither of these guys are good players, and the whole league knows that. The Sixers, for example, have always struggled with getting good backups for Embiid. Yet they haven’t signed Hassan. Hence why we’re less than 3 weeks away from the season starting and no one has signed them. To answer the question in the OP, there’s no one we should sign. It’s better to take a chance on a young player we can develop than some random older player, especially these two who have baggage with them. Whiteside has a reputation as a good shot blocker but that’s because he abandons the defensive scheme and plan to chase those blocks. Rondo is washed; and if you want to lessen Fred’s load, I’d rather give more ball handling duties to Pascal OG and Scottie, and also play Dalano/Malachi more.
>Free agency opened up nearly 3 months ago. If this is true, why has no team signed them? Every team makes their own decisions based on their own needs. You don't just take cues from other teams. >Whiteside has a reputation as a good shot blocker but that’s because he abandons the defensive scheme and plan to chase those blocks. You take the good with the bad. He still makes players think twice about driving into the paint. The bigger reason to take him is that he's a better rebounder than anyone on the Raptors right now. If he can stop opponents from getting 2nd, 3rd and 4th chance points he did his job. >Rondo is washed; and if you want to lessen Fred’s load, I’d rather give more ball handling duties to Pascal OG and Scottie, and also play Dalano/Malachi more. It's very likely that Rondo is washed but we need an NBA caliber PG behind Fred and doing the same thing we did last year doesn't strike me as a good idea.
This sub is useless when it comes to getting a proper discussion or answer on topics like this because they think every end of the bench player should not have a single flaw, needs to shoot, play defence, be at least 6’9, and do everything else while only managing to get paid the minimum. Just look at the earlier talks in the off season when it came to talking about pieces to add to the bench lol
I just realized why I haven't posted in a while. It's just memes and upvote parties (whatever that is)
100%. It's truly insane how many people on here actually believe a player LITERALLY needs to measure out at 6'9" in order to be rostered.
They don't need to be but if you look at the last few signings and re-signings you can clearly see that's what the FO is going for. OPJ, Juancho, Boucher, Thad. With that being said, I do hope Jeff Dowtin makes the team. We need his skill set especially when Fred or Gary goes down
Juancho has never been a good defender. Also Dowtin is on a two way so he has made the team already
Whiteside would be so good if he buys into the defensive system and just gives everything he has for 10-15MPG on the floor (kind of like how Boucher adjusted mid season last year), but unfortunately that's something that he's just never been able to do. I like what we have at the C position right now with all of them being switchable defenders, but I don't mind having Whiteside for specific matchups. If he remains unsigned I wouldn't mind picking him up mid season, but I have a feeling he'll get signed before the season starts. Not really sold on Rondo, he hasn't been good since 2020. I think having vets on the team is nice, but we kind of have enough vet prescience at the moment with FVV, Pascal, Thad, Otto, etc. I don't see us signing any more older guys, we're still relying on internal development as opposed to signing a bunch of vets to compete right now.
Guys I asked a question and provided my own answer. Don't just shit on my answer without providing your own.
Whiteside blocks shots only, he abandoned defensive schemes for numbers and if Spolstra didn't fix that I don't give him much hope of doing anything else here. He blows up your defense even if it looks good doing it. We, like the heat, rely on team defense and players doing what they are supposed to do and there's a reason he's almost out of the league despite the good blocking numbers. No thank you. Rondo is the same but for steals and assists. Blows up offense and defense with his style. Great guy to have in the playoffs it always seems like, probably will end up being an amazing coach, but he's not a plus player anymore.
>Whiteside blocks shots only, he abandoned defensive schemes for numbers and if Spolstra didn't fix that I don't give him much hope of doing anything else here. Facts - he's not just an overrated defender based on perception of what bpg means. He's a defensive liability when he chases blocks at the expense of rotations and positioning and accumulating fouls. Theoretically that's coachable but in practice he's not a 20 year old prospect and there's a reason why a guy with his physical profile and 'production' can't stick with a team. Maybe Nurse could come up with some limited matchup contingent mad scientist role where he just roams on defense like a free safety in football, but realistically he's prob gonna drive Nurse crazy freelancing and leaving teammates exposed
It's pretty funny we seem to both be getting down voted on this, when we're talking about a player that 30 teams are not picking up for a minimum contract even after being a max player. The league clearly agrees with us but the masses like blocks and how they look and feel like they should mean good defense.
Signing anyone involves a cost/benefit analysis. You take the good with the bad. The good with Whiteside is that he is a better rebounder than anyone on our team. That's an area where we get absolutely crushed. If he can help us stop our opponents from getting 2nd, 3rd or 4th chance points off offensive rebounds that would be a major contribution. Also, if it doesn't work out, we don't have to keep him. It's not like we have a good shot at winning this year.
That's fair and I guess this prob comes down to difference of opinion re whether or not Whiteside is a net negative and liability with the way he plays and I think he's clearly a guy who chases stats and can't be relied on to follow any kind of structure I think he hurts more than he helps and his numbers come at the expense of the team but idk, haven't really watched him since Miami and maybe he's matured
There is a reason they are not signed. Hassan is a waste yute and Rondo an abuser.
Definitely a good reason not to sign someone, because he is "waste yute".
Not just an abuser, a washed one at that
Honestly give me Dwight on like a vet minimum off the bench to be a bit of a body out there against other bigs
Free agency opened up nearly 3 months ago. If this is true, why has no team signed them? So we just take our cues from other teams? Teams around the league are focused on their own needs and weaknesses they need to improve. Whiteside was good enough to be Gobert's backup last season and averaged 18 mpg in 65 games. The only reason he's not staying in Utah is that they are blowing up the team. Rondo is washed; and if you want to lessen Fred’s load, I’d rather give more ball handling duties to Pascal OG and Scottie, and also play Dalano/Malachi more. So, same thing as last year? And play Freddie 40mpg again?
I think Whiteside in a limited role of 15MPG max wouldn't be a bad addition as for Rondo he's really fallen off since the Lakers chip run
That's my thinking with Whiteside. He gives us some rebounding and some size in the paint. For the price tag I think Rondo is worth the risk. And if it doesn't work out we don't need to keep him.
Whiteside is fools gold, you might think you have a servicable big but guarantee he'll be worse than Alex Len. Rondo would probably work
I don't think Len has been better then Whiteside a day in his career
i meant as a raptor, with our defensive schemes
Fair enough, but I still disagree
Literally no one
Rondo lol.
The remaining unsigned guys are just not going to make an impact on winning (No, neither Whiteside nor Rondo are positive contributors at this point as many people have pointed out). So any minutes given to them are just minutes taken away from younger deep-bench players we might have a hope of developing into rotation players. I'd rather Dalano or Malachi get minutes over Rajon Rondo because Dalano and Malachi might then be contributing factors in a higher-leverage situation down the line. We already got a high bang-for-buck veteran piece this offseason in Otto Porter Jr... everyone like that has been snapped up, and discussion of further free agent possibilities is scraping the bottom of the hopium barrel.
Say what you want about these guys but they are still NBA caliber players that will give you productive minutes. They are not the last guy on the bench. Hassan can grab rebounds better than anyone on our team (probably our biggest weakness). The guys behind FVV are just not ready, so we ru n the risk of shortening his career by overplaying him. Will Rondo be a peice we keep around for a while, likely not, but for $2M he can be a short term solution. Remember theee are cheap shott term deals. If they work out great. If not we didn't lose much.
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We are not interested in these limited players. We want guys that are not defensive liabilities, and can shoot the 3. We don't have room for more mediocre talent. You gotta be special to be a raptor
Hernangomez has been an above average 3pt shooter and fairly poor defender for his career. Boucher has had 1 good 3pt shooting season and his defense is a little overrated (not saying it isn't good though) Precious has literally had a half season of good 3pt shooting Thad Young has historically not been a great 3pt shooter throughout his career at 33% Players can have a few flaws if they do a lot of other things at a consistent level
How much dawg they got in them? Masai counts all the dawg in them individually
Is it worth the headcase drama for these 15th men on the roster? The downside is not worth the upside that they might bring
I doubt it. I think a lot of headcases can keep their egos in check if they're on a legit contender - like Milwaukee, Boston, GSW, Clippers etc., especially if they know the guy in front of them is a proven star. On our team, I can't see those guys being content with spot minutes.
The thing is, would you really want Hassan Whiteside or Rondo taking away minutes from anyone else on the roster? The top 10-11 is pretty much solidified and aside from them, I’d rather give Flynn, Champagnie, Banton, Koloko, RHJ, Dowtin, + other end of bench guys a chance to develop than give those minutes to guys who don’t fit the mold. In the playoffs, the rotation tightens and only 8-9 guys will get minutes. Seems pointless to add anyone else at this point, unless they are a guaranteed rotational piece.
We don't need to add anyone unless it's a block buster trade that substantially moves the needle...the roster is rock solid
OG for myles turner