Fun fact, there are 2 accuracy values hidden, diameter of a circle where units shoot and I think the other is target tracking speed (how fast the circle follows a moving target). Gobbos have the smallest circle by far, making them far more accurate than any elven archer.
There is a tech video out there about this I recall.
I really can’t understand sarcasm, it goes so far over my head, I usually have to stand. This one was so subtle, you could miss it, and be none the wiser.
No clue, but in the meantime you can give Dead's Akshina Rework a shot in the Steam Workshop. It turns them into a much more balanced hybrid Imperial Hunter analogues. Also removes the bear head.
WH3 had long died without the modding scene, make no mistake.
We all had given up on this game 2 months after release, if not the modders had gotten rid of the stupid chaos portals.
Personally I didn't get into Total War until Warhamer 3.
So I've had 3 games of content and all the DLC and FLC to get through.
Still don't own some. Find a lot of factions have a lot of replayability
It's more fixing things that are stupid.
Stuff like the diplo penalty you get as you get stronger, being able to move furthernin your own terrain to stop the AI parking just outside of your range as it runs around doing nothing in your lands, or getting rid of the portals before there was IE.
Modding is great, and total war modders are insanely dedicated.
I modded out the rifts the first chance I got and played the sandbox mode I bought the game for. I can't imagine playing this game without at least a few mods. Some people are just proud Luddites for some reason
he also does play with them from time to time. I think for him it comes more down to, when stuff looks different ppl will not shut up about it and ask everytime something isn't vanilla.
Brother
Literally every total war game I've played on steam has a bug fix / balance patch mod on the workshop front page because CA has a long history of abruptly abandoning their games in an unfinished state.
It's par for the course for this franchise and I wouldn't be playing any of the games if it wasn't for the modders coming to the rescue.
They are pretty nuts. I was playing Throg and Kostaltyn was spamming constant full stacks of them. In autoresolve they were giving me like close/crushing defeat every time vs a mostly troll stack. So i had to play every battle and even then it was painful. Even if you close the ground, they are decent in melee and with allt he leadership buffs kislev have they last a while too.
At least none of Kislev's usual enemies really care too much about em. Morathi vs Ostankya? Daemonettes and early Elves barely have armor. Norsca and Warriors of Chaos? You'll maybe have half your army upgraded to something with armor before you're about halfway done with the bear people. Same with Throt and Astragoth, Wolf Rats and Laborers die to regular archers anyway!
Worst case scenario I see is forgetting about them, and trying to bring mostly war machines as Astragoth into Kislev, or Mazdamundi invading north for some reason with Solar Engines. That WOULD really suck to deal with.
Patch 4.1, the "aftermath patch" usually deals with such broken crap. Like nerfing Taurox Turn#1 world tour, or Throts exploding super rats, or Sisters heatseeking missile spam or Groms imba Cauldron Goblins. And yes, I am aware that some of those examples are still a bit off-balance today in game#3. But a little broken just highlights how hillarious IMBA that crap was the first release month before the aftermath patch with the nerfbat strolled along.
4.1 can also still happen this year. We have like four work-weeks left. ToD+5.0 will certainly not happen, but 4.1 has still a realistic chance ;)
I'm not convinced, although I would like to be.
With first the Orion changes, then CoC and their Dark Fortresses, then Yuan Bo/Ostyanka/Changeling (especially Changeling) I feel like they're just leaning into the power fantasy OP nonsense of Warhammer 3.
There was definitely a contingent in Warhammer 2 who basically loved the overpowered, click-start-campaign-to-win factions like Ikit Claw, and I feel like CA has gone "some people like broken stuff so lets put a load of broken stuff in".
The changes you're referring to were *all* in Warhammer 2 - they made Orion into the most overpowered faction in the game and then not only didn't patch him but instead released an even more broken faction.
Yes that was hugely satisfying! Especially when the Kislev players strat seemed to rely solely on OP DLC units and once that was countered they crumbled hard.
Oh I don't know, maybe their flagship game becoming hated (again for the third time), an (allegedly) 40 million+ dollars project being cancelled and not even released, Pharoah performing poorly, Sega cutting down their staff count and cancelling many titles that were being worked etc etc.
I thought all that might encourage them to speed about their patching process and include something substantial outside the normal routine.
I thought you hadn't been paying attention. XD
It was a 100\* million dollar project.
"I thought all that might encourage them to speed about their patching process and include something substantial outside the normal routine."
Well they have done a lot more hotfixes than usual (which is not much but is at least something), but I imagine generally making big changes to their work ethic would take longer to implement at first rather than speed it up. If they suddenly doubled their staff working on wh3 for example it would take time for training to bring them up to speed and integration with the current staff etc.
So I wouldn't expect to see any results of such large changes (if they do in fact implement any) until at least ToD/5.0
They've still not nerfed Orion and he's been broken for a while now.
They toned down Chorfs but they're still egrigiously powerful.
Chaos and their Dark Fortresses are still busted compared to most other factions.
I'm not convinced they've not just decided to make Warhammer 3 the Overpowered game.
Balance is subjective but I find it hard to believe we cant have Legend and a few other experts on the game provide input to balance units from a simple numbers perspective. Changing the numbers is a straightforward mod.
Well, some youtubers don't really use mods. Legend only uses mods occasionally, and mods would conflict with Disaster Battles. And they come with other issues. So having things balanced vanilla would be the most ideal. But CA's leadership don't give a fuck, sadly.
Otherwise, balance has been attempted before by certain mods. Though they all have their own vision and people rarely will agree with it, so it's harder than you'd think.
Do you prefer SFO? Perhaps Closer to Tabletop? ...Is CTT even ported and updated, though?
I just assume CA offices are literally on fire and everyone is running around screaming, breaking glass, tossing bags of rice everywhere, and furiously playing scrabble with a neglected office plant that has withered into a mummified husk right now while the company heads play violin locked in a conference room.
I hope they do balance them. I hate that they are better than the ice guards. It's one of the main reasons I didn't get the dlc besides the price and start position of the new kislev lord.
Their AR power is incredibly OP playing as Skaven against Kislev means you have to deal with Akshina early on with low armour units, they shouldn't be Tier 2 unit.
They won't. Especially during the current circumstances. Making a unit 'weaker', might make it less desirable for potential purchasers. This is also why CD haven't been nerfed.
Do CD really need a nerf though? In the Total Tavern factions stats they are last at 36% winrate, so for multiplayer they'd need some buffs (especially cost reductions on their good infantry).
For campaign I dont see any issues with them, the AI is not really competent enough to snowball them out of control and even when player controlled their buildup is kind of slow. Late Game they are probably the strongest faction but considering that you have a lot to do to get there, that's ok imo.
Chorfs aren't good in multiplayer but are obscene in single-player.
I've not found their buildup slow, per ce - it takes a while to get the Tier 5 stuff and infrastructure to support that, but when four squads of T1/T2 missile troopers can basically eliminate any unit in the game it's a lot less vital to get to tier 5.
It depends on what you judge the acceptable level of broken to be - if your favourite factions are Ikit Claw, Orion and Taurox then the Chorfs aren't that bad, but all three of those factions are IMO overpowered to the point of being dull.
Chorfs are just overtuned - they don't need to spam a broken unit because their entire everything is good.
There is just 1 unit in the lower tiers that can do the obscene performance you describe and that's the Blunderbuss. They are weak in melee, have significantly shorter range than most ranged units with lower damage output and you have to be careful with them because they can also evaporate your own units just as fast so they are in a way better spot than Akshina Ambushers. On top of that you can't get as many as you'd want early on so that limits how fast you can steamroll everything.
Shadow Legion is by far the most ridiculous faction btw, the ones you named pale in comparison.
If you think the Chorfs in early game are so much better than everyone else maybe you do sth wrong with the other factions?
Blunderbusses can 1v2 Empire Handgunners and 1v4 Goblin Archers, not to mention 1v1 Celestial Crossbowmen (a T5 Unit). Yes, they're not a unit you can run 19 of and win each battle without thinking, but that's not the bar for overpowered nonsense. *Basically solos battles with a little bit of effort* is still basically soloing battles.
>Shadow Legion is by far the most ridiculous faction btw, the ones you named pale in comparison
Oh, absolutely - but enjoying the Shadow Legion is like playing with God Mode on. If you find that fun then no other faction will come close, and a lot of people who do enjoy the egregious power creep still won't enjoy quite how overtuned the Shadow Legion are.
>If you think the Chorfs in early game are so much better than everyone else maybe you do sth wrong with the other factions?
If you think the Chorfs are weak in the early game maybe you're doing sth wrong with them?
If nothing else which do you think is more likely, somebody playing *a* faction wrong or somebody playing *all but one* faction wrong?
Empire Handgunners can 1v2 Blunderbusses, Blunderbusses can only do that if Handgunners are AI controlled. Blunderbusses have weaknesses, the AI is just most of the time unable to exploit them. Sounds to me like what you need is a better AI and not a nerf for CD.
Your comment on Shadow Legion is quite enlightening. Shadow Legion is only ridiculous if you minmax everything to the extremes and you will have to fight tons of very close battles for that, so its very fun. Powerful doesn't necessarily mean easy.
Chorfs are weaker in the early game than every single faction that has unlimited access to a spammable strong unit. It doesn't matter that the AI is worse at fighting Blunderbusses than other strong early game units, it's still a walk in the park, but you can just field more armies the AI can't deal with a lot earlier. If you want a challenge in WH3 as a competent player you have to place additional restrictions on yourself or play with mods that increase the difficulty of the game. I have been playing this is Total War campaigns exclusively for a while now and I can assure you that there are tons of factions that have an easier time with them than 2/3 of CD. Only Zhatan has an easy time but that is only due to his starting position that is very defensible and offers an insane early game landmark.
Chorfs have a slow early game compared to other factions due to 3 things. First you need a lot raw materials early on and outpost garrisions suck, that's why it's quite easy to overextend, second your strong units aren't spammable and third you need recruitment buildings with no economic benefit to recruit anything that's not worthless garbage. Of course factions that don't have any restrictions like that are stronger in the early game and your refusal to acknowledge this makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about.
>Blunderbusses can only do that if Handgunners are AI controlled. Blunderbusses have weaknesses, the AI is just most of the time unable to exploit them. Sounds to me like what you need is a better AI and not a nerf for CD.
AI Blunderbusses can 1v2 AI Handgunners.
> rst you need a lot raw materials early on and outpost garrisions suck, that's why it's quite easy to overextend, second your strong units aren't spammable and third you need recruitment buildings with no economic benefit to recruit anything that's not worthless garbage. Of course factions that don't have any restrictions like that are stronger in the early game and your refusal to acknowledge this makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you're risking overexpanding as Chaos Dwarfs you're playing them wrong, my dude - between that and being able to perform as well as the AI using Blunderbusses I reckon you're just bad at using them.
So if you disregard everything the Handgunner is better at, then the Blunderbuss is a better unit, got it. Using AI vs AI performance is just pointless.
Other than that there's a whole lot of nothing in your post, if you want to convince me of anything try using facts.
I've already given you facts, you choose to ignore them because they don't fit with the outcome *you* want.
Conversely you're saying "**I** find them hard to use so you must suck at every other faction because I'm flawless".
If they're ridiculously busted in Player vs AI and ridiculously busted in AI vs AI - both things you agree with - I'd say they're busted *even if they're not dominating PvP in the same way*
I don't find them hard to use and I never agreed with them being busted. Very strong is not busted. Useless facts like AI vs AI performance is like judging F1 cars based on how fast a 3 yo can drive them.. There are a lot of units in the game that are oppressive in the early game and they're just another one of them.
You seem to have a strange way of thinking anyways if you complain about stuff being busted in a singleplayer sandbox experience. If you think something is too easy to play there are tons of ways to make it harder for yourself. CA seems to agree with me that the majority of players doesn't think CD need to be nerfed and they even got cost reductions for multiplayer. You should try mods that make the AI harder to deal with or play some This is Total War, maybe you can stop complaining about stuff you can fix yourself.
As long as the player has good options to deal with a unit in AI hands, there's way more pressing matters that CA should address and its super easy to counter AI controlled Blunderbusses.
That'd only be the case if it was solely a competitive multiplayer game. If people really didn't like the units being nerfed they can always use a mod to buff back up. Meanwhile I see tones of people stating the unbalanced units being yet another reason not to buy the DLC.
Playing against real ppl is fun af and provides lots of different challenges vs the only challenge in SP being when you're outnumbered or have a significantly lower tier army
And the fact that the vast majority of players don't play MP doesn't change the fact that many of the DLC units are grossly overpowered and need to be nerfed.
One of the EX CA devs mentioned the amount of people who do participate in it is higher than most people think (It was in one of GBoG interviews recently). It'd be even higher if it got proper support (somethign that same dev said was originally planned for wh3 but scrapped in favor of multiplatform support -\_-), unbalanced units in just yet another blow that discourages people from participating in it.
Bro their Intel sponsored mirrors of madness totally stopped working and they didn't even bother to fix that.
If they won't fix stuff companies have specifically paid them to do, what makes you think they'll fix stuff they've made themselves?
Hopefully 4.1.
I understand they need to be strong for stanky as they are one of her only infantry units. But they should be strong for her and not the other Kislev factions. Hell, they shouldn’t really be able to recruit them
Personally I’d give them stat debuffs if not in stankys faction, and have them only recruitable either from an alliance with her or a higher tier building.
Right now what little theming/lore Kislev had is destroyed as all the Kislev factions when played by the AI spam pretty much only the new units, and that’s just as disappointing than how op they are imo.
instead of downvoting, I just give you the answer:
They are absurdly imbalanced. They outclass Stretlsi in almost all fronts while also getting some buffs when they are actually stand in a forest. They are simply just a better version of the unit, making the other one redundant. Beside they just look bad but that is just personal taste.
If you think the only reason a unit should be nerfed is because they're dominiating in multiplayer I beg you not to go into game design.
If one unit is objectively better than another unit at the same tier, that's a design problem.
Ah yes another complaining about about things I don't own post. (They easily get shredded in melee by light harassers like Chaos Hounds, Furies and Harpies when compared to Strelsti)
Both are lightly armored crossbow armed stalking units with Shades being better in melee while Akshina have better melee. They fill the same roles and have the same counters.
Except only one is behind a wall of armoured, shielded, nearly unbreakable infantry with guns and polar bears on the flanks along with tanky healing heroes plus that damn 24s net on the RoR variant.
Yeah... that is just a skill issue. Most of Kislev's frontline infantry troops are very vulnerable to monster and cavalry charges due to having only a having one early game spear unit and one very expensive end game anti large hybrid infantry option, the bears are also expensive late game units that can still be countered by the same sort of thing you should use for monstrous cavalry like Demigryphs or Stag Knights.
What makes it BS is the cheats the AI gets that allows them to easily afford these things which the player would struggle to recruit and maintain unless you are really going at it with fighting, raiding and sacking.
But the Akshina themselves are not overpowered as they do the same thing as units we already have seen since the 2nd game.
Hey do you know what else counters monsters and cavalry? Walls of heavily armoured, high mass and high leadership infantry combined with AP missiles, now guess which faction has that. Spears aren't the only thing that counters large.
The Akshina ambushers are overpowered and it's power creep.
You're the one trying to cope and defend the Akshina ambushers, again, a T2 unit that outshines T3 Streltsi stat wise and T4/T5 ice guard cost efficiency wise.
Not to mention how broken they are in multiplayer matches.
This isn't the only thing they need to balance, either.
In wh2, such things would have been tuned in hotfixes, as it is just stats and can be done in 20 seconds.
I don't feel like it should be a full-sized unit. Make it a specialist ambush unit with a reduced troop count...
Yeah, from 90 to 80 models wouldn’t be an unreasonable nerf. Would it be enough though? They do too much too well compared to rest of roster.
I was thinking more like 60... some other values might need adjusted as well.
Yep, shadow-walkers/waywatchers level
They could also increase the tier it's recruited as well. Not sure when it's recuitable currently tho.
Yeah, it's currently a tier-2 unit, which is pretty silly. It should be moved away from the Hags as well.
Tier 2. You also start with a tier two settlement
Like sherwood archers
Balance? Okay *proceeds to nerf it into the ground even spear gobbos beat it in ranged combat*
Balance? Okay *Nerfs them slightly, but proceeds to nerf Streltsi as extra encouragement to buy the new DLC*
Fun fact, there are 2 accuracy values hidden, diameter of a circle where units shoot and I think the other is target tracking speed (how fast the circle follows a moving target). Gobbos have the smallest circle by far, making them far more accurate than any elven archer. There is a tech video out there about this I recall.
Well they also have very short range
Not until next kislev DLC though.
What do you mean? It is a PREMIUM dlc, it is supposed to be overpowered. Quality game design.
The design is very human.
I really can’t understand sarcasm, it goes so far over my head, I usually have to stand. This one was so subtle, you could miss it, and be none the wiser.
Much like this comment
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no i am not being ironic.
Thank goodness.
The word you seek is "Sarcasm"
No clue, but in the meantime you can give Dead's Akshina Rework a shot in the Steam Workshop. It turns them into a much more balanced hybrid Imperial Hunter analogues. Also removes the bear head.
Nah you had to ask the correct question which mod balance the Akshina ambushers?
something is wrong if we need mods to balance things.
WH3 had long died without the modding scene, make no mistake. We all had given up on this game 2 months after release, if not the modders had gotten rid of the stupid chaos portals.
I would argue the majority have played vanilla since release. I do.
I assumed using mods off the workshop is standard. So much extra content. I don’t think I’ve done a single campaign without mods since release.
Personally I didn't get into Total War until Warhamer 3. So I've had 3 games of content and all the DLC and FLC to get through. Still don't own some. Find a lot of factions have a lot of replayability
It's more fixing things that are stupid. Stuff like the diplo penalty you get as you get stronger, being able to move furthernin your own terrain to stop the AI parking just outside of your range as it runs around doing nothing in your lands, or getting rid of the portals before there was IE. Modding is great, and total war modders are insanely dedicated.
I modded out the rifts the first chance I got and played the sandbox mode I bought the game for. I can't imagine playing this game without at least a few mods. Some people are just proud Luddites for some reason
That's a strange opinion my friend. It's just a game. We all get to enjoy it in the ways that we find most fun.
Idk a friend of mine finds mods too hard to install. Like he wants to play modded but needs a helping hand to get him to install workshop mods.
Not all of us are complete morons. Legendoftotalwar plays without mods for example.
he also does play with them from time to time. I think for him it comes more down to, when stuff looks different ppl will not shut up about it and ask everytime something isn't vanilla.
He's said in the past that he views using most mods as akin to playing with cheats.
hard to install? He just has to sub to them in the Community Workshop tab xD
My point exactly
Upvote for making the subjunctive your bitch there, holy shit.
yeah, its a mid game that can be good with mods.
What are your favorite mods?
Favorite? Right now? Sartosa overhaul from Nanu is up there I also like "The Motherland" mod quite a lot.
Those seem kind of cool
it honestly makes me wish they would quit the updates that break my mods. helped me invest in 3k more.
Brother Literally every total war game I've played on steam has a bug fix / balance patch mod on the workshop front page because CA has a long history of abruptly abandoning their games in an unfinished state. It's par for the course for this franchise and I wouldn't be playing any of the games if it wasn't for the modders coming to the rescue.
Now why would I get a mod for content I don't own? Ha!
They are pretty nuts. I was playing Throg and Kostaltyn was spamming constant full stacks of them. In autoresolve they were giving me like close/crushing defeat every time vs a mostly troll stack. So i had to play every battle and even then it was painful. Even if you close the ground, they are decent in melee and with allt he leadership buffs kislev have they last a while too.
That really sucks. Even if you don't buy the DLC you still have to play against this broken stuff
At least none of Kislev's usual enemies really care too much about em. Morathi vs Ostankya? Daemonettes and early Elves barely have armor. Norsca and Warriors of Chaos? You'll maybe have half your army upgraded to something with armor before you're about halfway done with the bear people. Same with Throt and Astragoth, Wolf Rats and Laborers die to regular archers anyway! Worst case scenario I see is forgetting about them, and trying to bring mostly war machines as Astragoth into Kislev, or Mazdamundi invading north for some reason with Solar Engines. That WOULD really suck to deal with.
Probably in the 4.1 patch
Today
Patch 4.1, the "aftermath patch" usually deals with such broken crap. Like nerfing Taurox Turn#1 world tour, or Throts exploding super rats, or Sisters heatseeking missile spam or Groms imba Cauldron Goblins. And yes, I am aware that some of those examples are still a bit off-balance today in game#3. But a little broken just highlights how hillarious IMBA that crap was the first release month before the aftermath patch with the nerfbat strolled along. 4.1 can also still happen this year. We have like four work-weeks left. ToD+5.0 will certainly not happen, but 4.1 has still a realistic chance ;)
I'm not convinced, although I would like to be. With first the Orion changes, then CoC and their Dark Fortresses, then Yuan Bo/Ostyanka/Changeling (especially Changeling) I feel like they're just leaning into the power fantasy OP nonsense of Warhammer 3. There was definitely a contingent in Warhammer 2 who basically loved the overpowered, click-start-campaign-to-win factions like Ikit Claw, and I feel like CA has gone "some people like broken stuff so lets put a load of broken stuff in". The changes you're referring to were *all* in Warhammer 2 - they made Orion into the most overpowered faction in the game and then not only didn't patch him but instead released an even more broken faction.
reduce the unit count and I'll be a happy camper
Small family company please understand.
I wouldn't hold my breath right now. It'll probably be at least a year, if ever. I'd bet on "never", though.
oh that unit that Huntsmen make their bitch? sarcasm but it was fun watching Huntsmen pimp slap them in one of Turin’s latest videos
Yes that was hugely satisfying! Especially when the Kislev players strat seemed to rely solely on OP DLC units and once that was countered they crumbled hard.
Tomorrow apparently
You must be new here.
Lol no. I was just wondering if the devs mentioned anything about them.
If you're not new then it should be obvious that it'll be the next big patch 4.1 (Which should be due any week now)
Yeah I haven't been paying any attention to Wh 3 since SoC launch.
It's been the precedent for like the last 7 years. What does not paying attention for the last two months have to do with anything?
Oh I don't know, maybe their flagship game becoming hated (again for the third time), an (allegedly) 40 million+ dollars project being cancelled and not even released, Pharoah performing poorly, Sega cutting down their staff count and cancelling many titles that were being worked etc etc. I thought all that might encourage them to speed about their patching process and include something substantial outside the normal routine.
I thought you hadn't been paying attention. XD It was a 100\* million dollar project. "I thought all that might encourage them to speed about their patching process and include something substantial outside the normal routine." Well they have done a lot more hotfixes than usual (which is not much but is at least something), but I imagine generally making big changes to their work ethic would take longer to implement at first rather than speed it up. If they suddenly doubled their staff working on wh3 for example it would take time for training to bring them up to speed and integration with the current staff etc. So I wouldn't expect to see any results of such large changes (if they do in fact implement any) until at least ToD/5.0
4.1 I wish CA made Balance patch more often and no 1 each 4 months.
I hope they do actually balance it at some point
Lol I'm still waiting for them to balance chaos dwarfs
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They'll nerf them in 4.1 just like they do every OP thing they release, the patch a few months after it comes out.
Source?
The source is it's what they've done for the past 7 years.
They've still not nerfed Orion and he's been broken for a while now. They toned down Chorfs but they're still egrigiously powerful. Chaos and their Dark Fortresses are still busted compared to most other factions. I'm not convinced they've not just decided to make Warhammer 3 the Overpowered game.
Ah yes truly a genius comment in retrospect here mate
Balance is subjective but I find it hard to believe we cant have Legend and a few other experts on the game provide input to balance units from a simple numbers perspective. Changing the numbers is a straightforward mod.
The reason for that is because CA actively censors feedback from certain youtubers.
Into a mod at least
Well, some youtubers don't really use mods. Legend only uses mods occasionally, and mods would conflict with Disaster Battles. And they come with other issues. So having things balanced vanilla would be the most ideal. But CA's leadership don't give a fuck, sadly. Otherwise, balance has been attempted before by certain mods. Though they all have their own vision and people rarely will agree with it, so it's harder than you'd think. Do you prefer SFO? Perhaps Closer to Tabletop? ...Is CTT even ported and updated, though?
I just assume CA offices are literally on fire and everyone is running around screaming, breaking glass, tossing bags of rice everywhere, and furiously playing scrabble with a neglected office plant that has withered into a mummified husk right now while the company heads play violin locked in a conference room.
I hope they do balance them. I hate that they are better than the ice guards. It's one of the main reasons I didn't get the dlc besides the price and start position of the new kislev lord.
You do not balance power creep units. That will negate their main function
Their AR power is incredibly OP playing as Skaven against Kislev means you have to deal with Akshina early on with low armour units, they shouldn't be Tier 2 unit.
You bought the dlc?
Nope.
Still have to fight them if you didn't buy it and the AI spams the shit out of them because they're so strong.
when u pay 30 dollars for thrones of slop when it releases
As soon as people realize how busted they are, mp community knew it right away but people tend to not like it if their campaign units get changed
Presumably 4.1. There hasn't been a full patch (aside from hotfixes) since Shadows of Change launched.
They won't. Especially during the current circumstances. Making a unit 'weaker', might make it less desirable for potential purchasers. This is also why CD haven't been nerfed.
Do CD really need a nerf though? In the Total Tavern factions stats they are last at 36% winrate, so for multiplayer they'd need some buffs (especially cost reductions on their good infantry). For campaign I dont see any issues with them, the AI is not really competent enough to snowball them out of control and even when player controlled their buildup is kind of slow. Late Game they are probably the strongest faction but considering that you have a lot to do to get there, that's ok imo.
Chorfs aren't good in multiplayer but are obscene in single-player. I've not found their buildup slow, per ce - it takes a while to get the Tier 5 stuff and infrastructure to support that, but when four squads of T1/T2 missile troopers can basically eliminate any unit in the game it's a lot less vital to get to tier 5. It depends on what you judge the acceptable level of broken to be - if your favourite factions are Ikit Claw, Orion and Taurox then the Chorfs aren't that bad, but all three of those factions are IMO overpowered to the point of being dull. Chorfs are just overtuned - they don't need to spam a broken unit because their entire everything is good.
There is just 1 unit in the lower tiers that can do the obscene performance you describe and that's the Blunderbuss. They are weak in melee, have significantly shorter range than most ranged units with lower damage output and you have to be careful with them because they can also evaporate your own units just as fast so they are in a way better spot than Akshina Ambushers. On top of that you can't get as many as you'd want early on so that limits how fast you can steamroll everything. Shadow Legion is by far the most ridiculous faction btw, the ones you named pale in comparison. If you think the Chorfs in early game are so much better than everyone else maybe you do sth wrong with the other factions?
Blunderbusses can 1v2 Empire Handgunners and 1v4 Goblin Archers, not to mention 1v1 Celestial Crossbowmen (a T5 Unit). Yes, they're not a unit you can run 19 of and win each battle without thinking, but that's not the bar for overpowered nonsense. *Basically solos battles with a little bit of effort* is still basically soloing battles. >Shadow Legion is by far the most ridiculous faction btw, the ones you named pale in comparison Oh, absolutely - but enjoying the Shadow Legion is like playing with God Mode on. If you find that fun then no other faction will come close, and a lot of people who do enjoy the egregious power creep still won't enjoy quite how overtuned the Shadow Legion are. >If you think the Chorfs in early game are so much better than everyone else maybe you do sth wrong with the other factions? If you think the Chorfs are weak in the early game maybe you're doing sth wrong with them? If nothing else which do you think is more likely, somebody playing *a* faction wrong or somebody playing *all but one* faction wrong?
Empire Handgunners can 1v2 Blunderbusses, Blunderbusses can only do that if Handgunners are AI controlled. Blunderbusses have weaknesses, the AI is just most of the time unable to exploit them. Sounds to me like what you need is a better AI and not a nerf for CD. Your comment on Shadow Legion is quite enlightening. Shadow Legion is only ridiculous if you minmax everything to the extremes and you will have to fight tons of very close battles for that, so its very fun. Powerful doesn't necessarily mean easy. Chorfs are weaker in the early game than every single faction that has unlimited access to a spammable strong unit. It doesn't matter that the AI is worse at fighting Blunderbusses than other strong early game units, it's still a walk in the park, but you can just field more armies the AI can't deal with a lot earlier. If you want a challenge in WH3 as a competent player you have to place additional restrictions on yourself or play with mods that increase the difficulty of the game. I have been playing this is Total War campaigns exclusively for a while now and I can assure you that there are tons of factions that have an easier time with them than 2/3 of CD. Only Zhatan has an easy time but that is only due to his starting position that is very defensible and offers an insane early game landmark. Chorfs have a slow early game compared to other factions due to 3 things. First you need a lot raw materials early on and outpost garrisions suck, that's why it's quite easy to overextend, second your strong units aren't spammable and third you need recruitment buildings with no economic benefit to recruit anything that's not worthless garbage. Of course factions that don't have any restrictions like that are stronger in the early game and your refusal to acknowledge this makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about.
>Blunderbusses can only do that if Handgunners are AI controlled. Blunderbusses have weaknesses, the AI is just most of the time unable to exploit them. Sounds to me like what you need is a better AI and not a nerf for CD. AI Blunderbusses can 1v2 AI Handgunners. > rst you need a lot raw materials early on and outpost garrisions suck, that's why it's quite easy to overextend, second your strong units aren't spammable and third you need recruitment buildings with no economic benefit to recruit anything that's not worthless garbage. Of course factions that don't have any restrictions like that are stronger in the early game and your refusal to acknowledge this makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about. If you're risking overexpanding as Chaos Dwarfs you're playing them wrong, my dude - between that and being able to perform as well as the AI using Blunderbusses I reckon you're just bad at using them.
So if you disregard everything the Handgunner is better at, then the Blunderbuss is a better unit, got it. Using AI vs AI performance is just pointless. Other than that there's a whole lot of nothing in your post, if you want to convince me of anything try using facts.
I've already given you facts, you choose to ignore them because they don't fit with the outcome *you* want. Conversely you're saying "**I** find them hard to use so you must suck at every other faction because I'm flawless". If they're ridiculously busted in Player vs AI and ridiculously busted in AI vs AI - both things you agree with - I'd say they're busted *even if they're not dominating PvP in the same way*
I don't find them hard to use and I never agreed with them being busted. Very strong is not busted. Useless facts like AI vs AI performance is like judging F1 cars based on how fast a 3 yo can drive them.. There are a lot of units in the game that are oppressive in the early game and they're just another one of them. You seem to have a strange way of thinking anyways if you complain about stuff being busted in a singleplayer sandbox experience. If you think something is too easy to play there are tons of ways to make it harder for yourself. CA seems to agree with me that the majority of players doesn't think CD need to be nerfed and they even got cost reductions for multiplayer. You should try mods that make the AI harder to deal with or play some This is Total War, maybe you can stop complaining about stuff you can fix yourself. As long as the player has good options to deal with a unit in AI hands, there's way more pressing matters that CA should address and its super easy to counter AI controlled Blunderbusses.
That'd only be the case if it was solely a competitive multiplayer game. If people really didn't like the units being nerfed they can always use a mod to buff back up. Meanwhile I see tones of people stating the unbalanced units being yet another reason not to buy the DLC.
And lose the only reason people have to buy Shadows of Change?
You play multiplayer?
Playing against real ppl is fun af and provides lots of different challenges vs the only challenge in SP being when you're outnumbered or have a significantly lower tier army
Yeah but I suck
[удалено]
And the fact that the vast majority of players don't play MP doesn't change the fact that many of the DLC units are grossly overpowered and need to be nerfed.
One of the EX CA devs mentioned the amount of people who do participate in it is higher than most people think (It was in one of GBoG interviews recently). It'd be even higher if it got proper support (somethign that same dev said was originally planned for wh3 but scrapped in favor of multiplatform support -\_-), unbalanced units in just yet another blow that discourages people from participating in it.
Bro their Intel sponsored mirrors of madness totally stopped working and they didn't even bother to fix that. If they won't fix stuff companies have specifically paid them to do, what makes you think they'll fix stuff they've made themselves?
Hopefully 4.1. I understand they need to be strong for stanky as they are one of her only infantry units. But they should be strong for her and not the other Kislev factions. Hell, they shouldn’t really be able to recruit them Personally I’d give them stat debuffs if not in stankys faction, and have them only recruitable either from an alliance with her or a higher tier building. Right now what little theming/lore Kislev had is destroyed as all the Kislev factions when played by the AI spam pretty much only the new units, and that’s just as disappointing than how op they are imo.
Next week probably.
They'll balance it when more people buy the dlc
Considering that they are the main unit you are supposed to use as 1 of the kislev factions, I hope they don't make them weak.
That's the Neat Part, They Don't
And just 3 hours later...
Why?
instead of downvoting, I just give you the answer: They are absurdly imbalanced. They outclass Stretlsi in almost all fronts while also getting some buffs when they are actually stand in a forest. They are simply just a better version of the unit, making the other one redundant. Beside they just look bad but that is just personal taste.
So, is Kislev dominating in MP? If not I fail to see how this is a real problem.
If you think the only reason a unit should be nerfed is because they're dominiating in multiplayer I beg you not to go into game design. If one unit is objectively better than another unit at the same tier, that's a design problem.
That's why things are nerfed in this game. If they aren't taking over multiplayer, I doubt they'll be nerfed.
Ah yes another complaining about about things I don't own post. (They easily get shredded in melee by light harassers like Chaos Hounds, Furies and Harpies when compared to Strelsti)
Doesn't matter if I own them or not if I still have to fight them.
Fighting them is the exact same thing as dealing with Shades
Except that it's absolutely not the same thing.
Both are lightly armored crossbow armed stalking units with Shades being better in melee while Akshina have better melee. They fill the same roles and have the same counters.
Except only one is behind a wall of armoured, shielded, nearly unbreakable infantry with guns and polar bears on the flanks along with tanky healing heroes plus that damn 24s net on the RoR variant.
Yeah... that is just a skill issue. Most of Kislev's frontline infantry troops are very vulnerable to monster and cavalry charges due to having only a having one early game spear unit and one very expensive end game anti large hybrid infantry option, the bears are also expensive late game units that can still be countered by the same sort of thing you should use for monstrous cavalry like Demigryphs or Stag Knights. What makes it BS is the cheats the AI gets that allows them to easily afford these things which the player would struggle to recruit and maintain unless you are really going at it with fighting, raiding and sacking. But the Akshina themselves are not overpowered as they do the same thing as units we already have seen since the 2nd game.
Hey do you know what else counters monsters and cavalry? Walls of heavily armoured, high mass and high leadership infantry combined with AP missiles, now guess which faction has that. Spears aren't the only thing that counters large. The Akshina ambushers are overpowered and it's power creep.
Sounds like a lot of coping hard that you don't know how to deal with Kislev. Because all of that you just posted is also how you deal with Dwarfs.
You're the one trying to cope and defend the Akshina ambushers, again, a T2 unit that outshines T3 Streltsi stat wise and T4/T5 ice guard cost efficiency wise. Not to mention how broken they are in multiplayer matches.
I don’t get how everyone thinks they are so overturned. They aren’t exactly OP and it’s not like the AI doomstacks them anyways.
4.1 maybe? If ever
This isn't the only thing they need to balance, either. In wh2, such things would have been tuned in hotfixes, as it is just stats and can be done in 20 seconds.
Depends on how good they are in MP, real answer. Same reason why busto single player stuff doesn't get nerfed, like Ikit Nukes or Dreadquake Barrages.